[TruthTalk] David Miller-Remove me.
cd: David you were given you choice and I think people should have to live with their decisions- Remove me from this list.You chose Mormons and Liars over you brother in Christ-The choice wasn't whether or not Gary and Kevin came back to your list. The choice was for me to Moderate their offences an allow them to correct the wrongs they done-then if you wanted me to step down I would have again.. Now it has escalated into a stronger grievance as the guilty harmed the innocent and you stopped Judgement-but only temporary as the truth will indeed find you out. This is the price on pays when one is part secular and part Christian-as this site is indeed a reflection of you and conflict with the very reason God intended for His children to separate from on-going sinners-You in effect have brought the Devil in their mists- as these Pagans and other Cultist are following Satan-He is their God. I will pray for you and may God bless you.. Remove me from this list. Sorry Kevin /Judy/ Izzy but I have much studying to catch up on-I would heed Perry warning if I were you-but do as God leads you. Know that I love you in the Lord and no hell bound Demon can take that love away. Concerning the Hell debate: A parable does not take from the subject- it strengthens truth by expanding upon that subject to shed farther light on the intent of the Parable. For example the rich man -lifted up his eyes from hell. Due to this parable we know that there is flaming torment in Hell-nor one drop of water there and no way out...etc I would also like to believe that someone pointed out that sheol(the garbage heap) is clearly defined separately from the lake of fire that burns forever and ever-The use of Sheol in Pslms 9:17 would weaken the text considerably. Here is a quote from my Bible that fits this situation."Since Hell is a fearful place,it is comfort that the One who talked the most about it also made a way to escape its torments."For more details look up "Parable" in the dictionary. Yours in Christ- Carroll D. Moore -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Astrology-Miller
cd: No need bro-as I already have them- I save all the messages I reply too- and have found it helps to do so-I am starting to realize why Webber films/tapes all his debates. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/14/2006 5:22:38 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Astrology-Miller Should I dig up the past posts?Dean Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: - Original Message - From: David Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/14/2006 2:27:56 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Astrology-Miller Dean, I did not call you a liar. Judy is the one who said that if you were misrepresenting me, you were either lying or deceived. I gave her a third option: that you misunderstood. cd: Here is the very reason I re-focused the Ad. Hom rule. You claim you did not say I was lying-yet you-David- wrote to Judy:"So do you now conclude that Dean is lying or is genuinely deceived? So tell me the difference between calling me a liar and this remark?The insult is still there-is it not. I feel attacked. You had written: > David Miller was actually having Blaine > do readings for Him-gave him his birth > dated and even comment on how actuate > the reading were-have you ever heard > of the likes from a man of God? I believe this grossly misrepresents me, and the post you provide below proves this. Nothing in this post indicates that I was inquiring of Blaine to give me an astrological reading, and my comments dealt with how inaccurate his astrological perceptions were, not with how accurate they were. Blaine wrote: > Yes, David is pretty fixed--he was probably born > under one of the four fixed signs--Leo, Taurus, > Scorpio, or Aquarius. Or, he's one of those highly > independent Aries characters, who never admit > to being wrong!! If I knew for sure, I could read > him better. Well, Blaine guessed wrong, and so I told him so. Not only that, but he mentions nearly half the signs of the zodiac and still misses me! There is absolutely nothing accurate about this. I wrote: > Blaine... my astrological sign is pices. I guess that > astrology isn't helping you be too predictive after all. :-) Then Blaine admitted to the problem that identical twins pose to astrology. Apparently Dean has some other interpretation of what "reality check" means. Maybe I'm the one misunderstanding, but I took it that Blaine was admitting to problems in astrology. Identical twins have different personalities, yet are born very close to the same time. Giving him my personal information was for his benefit, not mine. I don't care about any "reading" and anybody who knows me knows this to be true. On the other hand, I'm not afraid to talk with someone about their astrological beliefs, nor even to divulge information about me that might be used to refute the validity of astrology. He claimed he missed it because of a lack of information. Did he? An easy way to test this is to provide him the information he says he requires. As for the Biblical prohibitions against astrology, we have already been over this. I uphold the Bible's prohibition against it, and the last time this came up, I asked other Mormons to comment on this as well. Not all the Mormons agree with Blaine about astrology. David Miller. - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 7:26 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Astrology-Miller cd:Judy I am not lying.- See below in blue and red. - Original Message - From: David Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/13/2006 12:00:46 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Astrology-Miller Judy, I never inquired Blaine's expertise in astrology regarding my birth sign, and it would be better to say that my comment to him was about his INACCURACY in astrology. So take it to the bank that I have been misrepresented by Dean because of his misreading of my post. Lance is entirely right when he speaks of a faulty reading. So do you now conclude that Dean is lying or is genuinely deceived? I prefer to think of it as a misunderstanding, not understanding what he is reading. David Miller -- cd: I don't appreciate being called a Liar David- Here are the post to support my statements. You gave Blaine you birth date (Highlighted in Red)for a reading and you remarked you were an identical twin and understood about Astrology being a reality check-after Blain mentioned Identical twins were different-Ask for forgiveness or be held accountable for partaking of pagan practices and for falsely accusing your brother in Christ.Start at the bottom and work up the page. cd: I am surprised and disappointed that you would be any part of this sin David. > [Original Message] > Fro
RE: [TruthTalk] To The dearly besmurched
cd: You can save this if you want and when we decide who is moderator-I will see that he proves you are from the Ozarks or apologize-remind me. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/14/2006 5:26:25 PM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] To The dearly besmurched And the attacks onDeans intelligence continue.Deliverance - Lance Ozarks - JD etc.BUT I am sure this is NOT ADHOM![EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Easy to call a man a liar and a worthless dog when you hide somewhere near the Ozarks, isn't it. The fact of the matter is that I was straight up with you and you have been anything but that with me. The "calf" question, Carroll, who did you ask. The fact is that you and those of your ilk have run and hide from so many questions over the past year that we have lost count. You cannot hang with a real discussion so you go with "worthless dog," "liar," and "Satan's messenger boys" and pretend that you were betrayed by Miller and backstabbed by who knows who. Just cannot accept personal responsiblity at all. And David knows you personally !!! Your stay as SPing moderator is clear evidence of the importance of keeping folks like you out of serious leadership. We see what fundamental Islam is like. I see little difference in your administration. At one time, not too long agao in fact, I was perfectly willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. I was wrong. You will get the last word , on this public forum, Dean. Sense we are self-moderatored, for the time being, well, it would be best if I make this my last response ... you have my e-mail address and my phone number. I am in full agreement with Lance. You are a walking time-bomb. But this was not a secret, even before David appointed you. I do think David was thinking something good just might come of your appointment -- but your appointment to any similar position of leadership is a head-scratcher for sure. jd -- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cd: No, it was not honest. But then again since when did this dancing brotherhood ever worry about honesty-or truth-or The Truth? They are a fine testimony for their group thinking religion-which they claim is ongoing revelation given by the decision of the majority of the group. They claim to decide if God is Male / Female or whatever- I asked them : What if the majority decided that God is a calf and to date have gotten no reply to this question.. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/14/2006 11:58:47 AM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] The dearly departed So why did jd inquire of you about them? Was that honest??? iz On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 20:22:45 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: cd; They have been in contact with Miller - Blain, DH ,John, Gary- and believe it or not Glen tabor.All in one group e-Mail-of which I seem to be the topic. From: ShieldsFamily Why dont you contact them directly? You have their email addresses, as do the rest of us. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] By the way -- are we allowed to ask as to the status of Gary and DH? They are missed on this forum by some. jd Yahoo! MailBring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
Re: [TruthTalk] Astrology-Miller
Dean in Blue below - Original Message - From: David Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/14/2006 2:27:56 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Astrology-Miller Dean, I did not call you a liar. Judy is the one who said that if you were misrepresenting me, you were either lying or deceived. I gave her a third option: that you misunderstood. You had written: > David Miller was actually having Blaine > do readings for Him-gave him his birth > dated and even comment on how actuate > the reading were-have you ever heard > of the likes from a man of God? I believe this grossly misrepresents me, and the post you provide below proves this. Nothing in this post indicates that I was inquiring of Blaine to give me an astrological reading, and my comments dealt with how inaccurate his astrological perceptions were, not with how accurate they were. Blaine wrote: > Yes, David is pretty fixed--he was probably born > under one of the four fixed signs--Leo, Taurus, > Scorpio, or Aquarius. Or, he's one of those highly > independent Aries characters, who never admit > to being wrong!! If I knew for sure, I could read > him better. Well, Blaine guessed wrong, and so I told him so. Not only that, but he mentions nearly half the signs of the zodiac and still misses me! There is absolutely nothing accurate about this. I wrote: > Blaine... my astrological sign is pices. I guess that > astrology isn't helping you be too predictive after all. :-) Then Blaine admitted to the problem that identical twins pose to astrology. Apparently Dean has some other interpretation of what "reality check" means. Maybe I'm the one misunderstanding, but I took it that Blaine was admitting to problems in astrology. Identical twins have different personalities, yet are born very close to the same time. Giving him my personal information was for his benefit, not mine. I don't care about any "reading" and anybody who knows me knows this to be true. cd:Then why did you give Blaine you birth date/info? I took this to be for a reading? > David Miller > Born March 3, 1960 > 4:50 am > Cleveland, Ohio. On the other hand, I'm not afraid to talk with someone about their astrological beliefs, nor even to divulge information about me that might be used to refute the validity of astrology. He claimed he missed it because of a lack of information. Did he? An easy way to test this is to provide him the information he says he requires. As for the Biblical prohibitions against astrology, we have already been over this. I uphold the Bible's prohibition against it, and the last time this came up, I asked other Mormons to comment on this as well. Not all the Mormons agree with Blaine about astrology. David Miller. - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 7:26 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Astrology-Miller cd:Judy I am not lying.- See below in blue and red. - Original Message - From: David Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/13/2006 12:00:46 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Astrology-Miller Judy, I never inquired Blaine's expertise in astrology regarding my birth sign, and it would be better to say that my comment to him was about his INACCURACY in astrology. So take it to the bank that I have been misrepresented by Dean because of his misreading of my post. Lance is entirely right when he speaks of a faulty reading. So do you now conclude that Dean is lying or is genuinely deceived? I prefer to think of it as a misunderstanding, not understanding what he is reading. David Miller -- cd: I don't appreciate being called a Liar David- Here are the post to support my statements. You gave Blaine you birth date (Highlighted in Red)for a reading and you remarked you were an identical twin and understood about Astrology being a reality check-after Blain mentioned Identical twins were different-Ask for forgiveness or be held accountable for partaking of pagan practices and for falsely accusing your brother in Christ.Start at the bottom and work up the page. cd: I am surprised and disappointed that you would be any part of this sin David. > [Original Message] > From: David Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Date: 2/15/2006 6:45:59 PM > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Behind the scenes conversations re:David Miller > > Blaine, considering that I am an identical twin myself, I do understand how > what you just said would be a reality check for astrology. :-) > > David Miller > Born March 3, 1960 > 4:50 am > Cleveland, Ohio. > In a snow blizzard that dumped 24 inches of snow. > > > > David Miller > > > > p.s. Blaine... my astrological sign
RE: [TruthTalk] The dearly departed
cd: John take some more of the medication and relax. I do have access to the letter you sent honoring me for taking the Job. Calm down with that medication or I will have to use it. - Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/14/2006 4:41:54 PM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] The dearly departed Easy to call a man a liar and a worthless dog when you hide somewhere near the Ozarks, isn't it. The fact of the matter is that I was straight up with you and you have been anything but that with me. The "calf" question, Carroll, who did you ask. The fact is that you and those of your ilk have run and hide from so many questions over the past year that we have lost count. You cannot hang with a real discussion so you go with "worthless dog," "liar," and "Satan's messenger boys" and pretend that you were betrayed by Miller and backstabbed by who knows who. Just cannot accept personal responsiblity at all. And David knows you personally !!! Your stay as SPing moderator is clear evidence of the importance of keeping folks like you out of serious leadership. We see what fundamental Islam is like. I see little difference in your administration. At one time, not too long agao in fact, I was perfectly willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. I was wrong. You will get the last word , on this public forum, Dean. Sense we are self-moderatored, for the time being, well, it would be best if I make this my last response ... you have my e-mail address and my phone number. I am in full agreement with Lance. You are a walking time-bomb. But this was not a secret, even before David appointed you. I do think David was thinking something good just might come of your appointment -- but your appointment to any similar position of leadership is a head-scratcher for sure. jd -- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cd: No, it was not honest. But then again since when did this dancing brotherhood ever worry about honesty-or truth-or The Truth? They are a fine testimony for their group thinking religion-which they claim is ongoing revelation given by the decision of the majority of the group. They claim to decide if God is Male / Female or whatever- I asked them : What if the majority decided that God is a calf and to date have gotten no reply to this question.. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/14/2006 11:58:47 AM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] The dearly departed So why did jd inquire of you about them? Was that honest??? iz On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 20:22:45 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: cd; They have been in contact with Miller - Blain, DH ,John, Gary- and believe it or not Glen tabor.All in one group e-Mail-of which I seem to be the topic. From: ShieldsFamily Why dont you contact them directly? You have their email addresses, as do the rest of us. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] By the way -- are we allowed to ask as to the status of Gary and DH? They are missed on this forum by some. jd
RE: [TruthTalk] TruthTalk Moderator
> [Original Message] > From: David Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Date: 3/14/2006 12:09:40 PM > Subject: [TruthTalk] TruthTalk Moderator > > Dear TruthTalk members, > > I feel it prudent to clarify many misunderstandings. Please bear with me > while I make a few posts regarding this subject of the TruthTalk moderator. > If you are new on the list, please try to overlook our dirty laundry. > > Dean wrote: > > I am no longer Moderator of Truth talk. > > David requested that I step down-so > > I have done so. > > This is not true. I never asked Dean to step down. I asked to talk with > him about it. --- cd: For you to mention that you wanted to talk to me about stepping down is the same as asking me to step down, David.It is the same as to say we need discuss your being fired from being moderator of TT. No different-so I did so. No lying here, David. --- I asked to talk with him about either stepping down or > changing his approach and methods of communicating. I tried to call him on > the phone and left a voice message for him to return my call, and I sent him > a short e-mail. Here is the e-mail: cd:What change of approach David? Allow others to be mocked and called liars while I do nothing- Your team would like that-"Come cuss the Christians everybody-nobody cares-not even the owner of the site. Well I do care David. Judy is no liar-and what have you done about that-nothing-and when I do something about it-you want to talk about me stepping down or change the way I do things. -- > > = > - Original Message - > From: David Miller > To: Dean Moore > Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 12:08 PM > Subject: TruthTalk > > Carroll, we need to talk. The list is not going well at all. I would like > to talk with you about either stepping down from being moderator or changing > your approach and methods of communicating. > > David Miller. > 352-564-1512 > = > > I never received a return phone call, nor an email attempt to communicate. > Dean has simply stepped down and has now misrepresented me in saying that I > asked him to step down. - -Explained in the above. - > > My concern is communication. Carroll has written to me in glowing terms > about the list and where it is headed. I have had a number of concerns > about where the list was heading and I desired only to talk with him about > it. I am concerned when people are suspended from the list and do not have > a clear understanding why it was done. - cd: What people? John-He was warned several times and you thanked me for doing the job and then later when I warned you about breaking the rules.I received a complete turn around and then John was a good guy and I was unfair. I have the posts see below. Before the warning I gave you for bring a private discussion to TT. --- Now concerning John's suspension, I want to point out a few things. > > 1. Dean is the moderator and he is the sole person with the authority to > remove people from the list, if he deems such necessary. We do not make > joint decisions about this. Obviously, if I were to see something > inappropriate on Dean's part, I would step in to correct it. I think Dean > would welcome such too. However, as long as he is acting in accordance to > righteousness and holiness, I keep my hands off of the matter. In regards > to John's suspension, this was completely Dean's decision. > > 2. From my understanding of this matter, John was suspended for ad hominem > style posts that he would not apologize for. For example, he sent the > following post about me: cd: Here is the warning I gave you: **Moderator Comment David you are bringing private moderator discussions on this public TT site-I realize you are attempting to control lies and your reputation for the good of this site-but you are violating the same rule others were reprimanded for. It would not be fair to others if I allowed this to continue- If you bring private discussions on this list again-in a reasonable amount of time- I will have no choice but to suspend you for three days-and reinstate you per your agreement to comply to the rules.It is my Job to protect others on this list from this type of discussion. I suggest you e-mail the members on this list privately for this type of iniquity. Thanks Carrol
Re: [TruthTalk] The dearly departed
> [Original Message] > From: David Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Date: 3/14/2006 12:45:46 PM > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]The dearly departed > > These comments are out of line. The only person I have been on the phone > with is Ruben. He called me just this morning, after Dean had decided to > step down from being moderator. As for e-mail exchange, it has been very > minimal, with some attempts to include Dean to resolve problems off the > list. This is entirely appropriate. The evil surmisings about this > activity below are inappropriate. -- cd: Back to the evil surmising again I see- I said I had "reason to believe DavH had called you". Here is my reason for that belief: Note that Perry gave me permission to use this letter. [Original Message] > From: Charles Perry Locke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 3/12/2006 8:49:39 PM > Subject: RE: Perry > > Dean, > > If they deserved to go, then so be it. When I put DaveH off the list, he > entered into a big private email conversation with myself and David M over > his getting banned. He and david M even chatted by phone. He never really > understood why I banned him. The reason he said he was banned was not the > reason I banned him, yet after I explained the real reason to him several > times, he continued to quote his imagined reason, I suspect because he felt > it better supported his argument for a double standard on TT. > > I say all of this to let you know that he will bend the story to support > his own argument, even when the truth is presented plainly to him. > > Perry cd: More below. -- > > >From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >To: "Charles Perry Locke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Subject: RE: Perry > >Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:33:11 -0500 > > > >Perry- I just put Daveh and Gary off the list-Things should get interesting > >now;-) cd: More Below. > > > > > > > [Original Message] > > > From: Charles Perry Locke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Date: 3/12/2006 3:57:56 PM > > > Subject: RE: Perry > > > > > > Dean, > > > > > > Moderating TT is definitely a difficult task. As you know I have > > > unsubscribed from TruthTalk, and to be honest, Dean, I do not have any > > > intentions of rejoining, or being moderator again. I think that truth > >talk > > > actually did more to weaken my faith than to encourage it, and I don't > >need > > > that. Now that it is clear to me that TT is actually a secular group > > > intended to discuss whatever anyone thinks is their personal truth, not > > > necessarily Christian truth, I see why it operates as it does. Not only > >is > > > there no fellowship among the Christians on the group, there is division > >and > > > strife among the would-be bretheren. It is truly a secular group, and it > > > behaves as such. > > > > > > When I was moderator the best I could do was to watch only for the > >most > > > blatant ad-hominem references. Many of the people on TT are so > > > self-deceiving and disrespectful of one another that they use > >ad-hominems > > > and do so slyly that when it is pointed out they have 101 reasons and > > > rationalizations why it was not an ad-hominem, why it was justified, or > >"why > > > didn't you correct do-and-so when he said such-and-such about me"? > > > > > > So, the only advice I have, if you choose to remain the moderator, is > >to > > > continue to point out ad-hominems, continue to disallow public responses > >or > > > discussions about moderator comments, and ignore the petty wining and > > > sniping. Moderating worked well for me when I had the time to follow > >every > > > post, but when the traffic became heavy, I lagged behind and appeared to > >not > > > be moderating at all. And most of all, do not expect to see brotherly > >love > > > in a secular group. > > > > > > Hope this helps, Dean. > > > Perry ---- - > > For what it's worth, I have not rec
Re: [TruthTalk] Astrology-Miller
- Original Message - From: David Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/14/2006 2:27:56 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Astrology-Miller Dean, I did not call you a liar. Judy is the one who said that if you were misrepresenting me, you were either lying or deceived. I gave her a third option: that you misunderstood. cd: Here is the very reason I re-focused the Ad. Hom rule. You claim you did not say I was lying-yet you-David- wrote to Judy:"So do you now conclude that Dean is lying or is genuinely deceived? So tell me the difference between calling me a liar and this remark?The insult is still there-is it not. I feel attacked. You had written: > David Miller was actually having Blaine > do readings for Him-gave him his birth > dated and even comment on how actuate > the reading were-have you ever heard > of the likes from a man of God? I believe this grossly misrepresents me, and the post you provide below proves this. Nothing in this post indicates that I was inquiring of Blaine to give me an astrological reading, and my comments dealt with how inaccurate his astrological perceptions were, not with how accurate they were. Blaine wrote: > Yes, David is pretty fixed--he was probably born > under one of the four fixed signs--Leo, Taurus, > Scorpio, or Aquarius. Or, he's one of those highly > independent Aries characters, who never admit > to being wrong!! If I knew for sure, I could read > him better. Well, Blaine guessed wrong, and so I told him so. Not only that, but he mentions nearly half the signs of the zodiac and still misses me! There is absolutely nothing accurate about this. I wrote: > Blaine... my astrological sign is pices. I guess that > astrology isn't helping you be too predictive after all. :-) Then Blaine admitted to the problem that identical twins pose to astrology. Apparently Dean has some other interpretation of what "reality check" means. Maybe I'm the one misunderstanding, but I took it that Blaine was admitting to problems in astrology. Identical twins have different personalities, yet are born very close to the same time. Giving him my personal information was for his benefit, not mine. I don't care about any "reading" and anybody who knows me knows this to be true. On the other hand, I'm not afraid to talk with someone about their astrological beliefs, nor even to divulge information about me that might be used to refute the validity of astrology. He claimed he missed it because of a lack of information. Did he? An easy way to test this is to provide him the information he says he requires. As for the Biblical prohibitions against astrology, we have already been over this. I uphold the Bible's prohibition against it, and the last time this came up, I asked other Mormons to comment on this as well. Not all the Mormons agree with Blaine about astrology. David Miller. - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 7:26 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Astrology-Miller cd:Judy I am not lying.- See below in blue and red. - Original Message - From: David Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/13/2006 12:00:46 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Astrology-Miller Judy, I never inquired Blaine's expertise in astrology regarding my birth sign, and it would be better to say that my comment to him was about his INACCURACY in astrology. So take it to the bank that I have been misrepresented by Dean because of his misreading of my post. Lance is entirely right when he speaks of a faulty reading. So do you now conclude that Dean is lying or is genuinely deceived? I prefer to think of it as a misunderstanding, not understanding what he is reading. David Miller -- cd: I don't appreciate being called a Liar David- Here are the post to support my statements. You gave Blaine you birth date (Highlighted in Red)for a reading and you remarked you were an identical twin and understood about Astrology being a reality check-after Blain mentioned Identical twins were different-Ask for forgiveness or be held accountable for partaking of pagan practices and for falsely accusing your brother in Christ.Start at the bottom and work up the page. cd: I am surprised and disappointed that you would be any part of this sin David. > [Original Message] > From: David Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Date: 2/15/2006 6:45:59 PM > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Behind the scenes conversations re:David Miller > > Blaine, considering that I am an identical twin myself, I do understand how > what you just said would be a reality check for astrology. :-) > > David Miller > Born March 3, 1960 > 4:50 am > Cleveland, Ohio. > I
RE: [TruthTalk] Self-Moderating?
cd: Already tried that doesn't work. - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/14/2006 2:14:08 PM Subject: [TruthTalk] Self-Moderating? Perhaps the biggest 'current' offender is Lance. I'll speak with him on this so as to pull him into line, so to speak. Thereafter we could make things a little easier on the list owner re:'moderation'. Anonymous
RE: [TruthTalk] The dearly departed
cd: Twisting the facts again John. DaveH was warned many time that I did not like being called this name but continued in doing. In my opinion he was doing this knowing that I would only take it so far and suspend him -He then could claim I called him names and when He called me names in return he got suspended. I see this as an effort to cause problem between David and myself. My reply to this is :I have proved that Mormons are Pagans with many facts and examples- Dave has yet to prove I am " Judge Dean or apologize.I gave him the opportunity to do such and he did not do so. I contacted him in private -explaining to him how to get back on the site and he refused to apologize so I did not let him back on. If you are going to be an expert on the subject get the facts right or shut up as you do not know what you are talking about. Know that God can forgive this. - Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/14/2006 3:09:26 PM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] The dearly departed Dean was joking (?) So was DH. One can do it and another can't??? This is why Pat Robertson will never get my vote for Pres. jd -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Dean was joking "judge Dean"DH took oportunity to use it against Dean[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Linda -- you do not know what you are talking about. See my previous post (written just before this post.) As far as Dean is concerned, I addressed only one comment to David after coming back this last time .. and that was a presentation of Dean calling himself "Judge Dean." That same comment was posted on this site and was ignored by Dean as he continued to criticize DH for using the same language Dean used on himself. Secondly -- G is terminated and I missed the reason for that. None of my business? Perhaps. But , with the changing rules, it would be nice to know of G's violation so that we who remain will have a fighting chance of continuing on this forum. Sounds reasonable to me. At least, that was my reasoning before Dean resigned. jd -- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> So why did jd inquire of you about them? Was that honest??? iz On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 20:22:45 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: cd; They have been in contact with Miller - Blain, DH ,John, Gary- and believe it or not Glen tabor.All in one group e-Mail-of which I seem to be the topic. From: ShieldsFamily Why dont you contact them directly? You have their email addresses, as do the rest of us. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] By the way -- are we allowed to ask as to the status of Gary and DH? They are missed on this forum by some. jd __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [TruthTalk] The dearly departed
cd: Come off it John you were warmed many times - and I contacted you many times and told you how to get back on the list. What more could I do-You refused to apologize.. You told me to "Go to h---". In a public forum- You portrayed David as being evil and you threatened to call Judy's pastor and report her for things you claim she said on TT. Gary called Judy a liar (refused to stop or apologize)and stated using Foul language on TT The (a) word,and DavH continued showing me disrespect after many warnings. I guess I should have just let all this pass-and then I would be liked on TT. I can go to my grave with a clear conscious on this subject-can you? - Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/14/2006 1:07:24 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The dearly departed Dean has assured us that he will continue with TT in order to give his defense. Assuming that is still the case - explain this: "This is what happened with John-but I refused till he show signs of remorse. He hung around so long in private that he reminded me of that stray dog that refused to leave my house. After a while I started feeding it out of pity-Turned out to be a worthless dog in the end-didn't have no appreciation for the food, " Didn't have "no appreciation?" Really -- Just for the record -- when Dean suddenly cut me off this last time, he did not contact me a single timenot even to tell me I was removed. I even offered my phone number to him with no response. Off hiding somewhere, apparently. There was nothing offered by Dean that could have been remotely similar to something for which I should be appreciative -- nothing. His troubles are of his own doing. Calling me childish names as he tries to escape personal responsibility for his own actions is ridiculous. Why he was installed as Moderator is a mystery to me -- but Dean is responsible for Dean, that I know. And I will leave it at that. jd -- Original message -- From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > These comments are out of line. The only person I have been on the phone > with is Ruben. He called me just this morning, after Dean had decided to > step down from being moderator. As for e-mail exchange, it has been very > minimal, with some attempts to include Dean to resolve problems off the > list. This is entirely appropriate. The evil surmisings about this > activity below are inappropriate. > > For what it's worth, I have not received or sent email to Gary at all and > did not even know he was taken off the list. I would not have known that > Dave Hansen was taken off the list except that he wrote me privately asking > me if that was the situation because the list was rejecting his submissions. > I told him that I was unaware of this and that I would i nvestigate and let > him know. > > David Miller > > > - Original Message - > From: Dean Moore > To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 7:03 AM > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The dearly departed > > cd: Does the foolish need a reason to be foolish? I also reason to believe > that they have spoken behind my back on the phone- Wickedness whispering in > Millers ear lies and half-truth-put a little truth-show a little emotion in > the mix and there you have it. This is what happened with John-but I refused > till he show signs of remorse. He hung around so long in private that he > reminded me of that stray dog that refused to leave my house. After a while > I started feeding it out of pity-Turned out to be a worthless dog in the > end-didn't have no appreciation for the food, me ,or the pity.Just a > worthless dog-that bites the hand that feeds it.Sound familiar? & gt; > - Original Message - > From: Judy Taylor > To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > Sent: 3/14/2006 1:02:48 AM > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The dearly departed > > Why do ppl so love darkness and gossip and one upping the next guy?? > Along with stirring the pot - where's the love?? > > On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 20:22:45 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> writes: > cd; They have been in contact with Miller - Blain, DH ,John, Gary- and > believe it or not Glen tabor.All in one group e-Mail-of which I seem to be > the topic. > > From: ShieldsFamily > > Why dont you contact them directly? You have their email addresses, as do > the rest of us. iz > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > By the way -- are we allowed to ask as to t he sta tus of Gary and DH? > They are missed on this forum by some. > > jd > > -- > "Let your
RE: [TruthTalk] Dean as a candidate for Moderator?
- Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/14/2006 7:28:58 AM Subject: [TruthTalk] Dean as a candidate for Moderator? What I've got against MLM's? (Multi level marketing schemes) They choose persons who are not up to the task and thus, are bound to fail. The list owner should have known this. IFO did know this. DM is both more gifted and, more intelligent than I. Why then, DM, did you ever make this choice? In so doing you hurt a fellow believer unnecessarily. You owe such an one an apology. cd: Then why did you tell me that you were glad I was made Moderator Lance-You even said David made a good choice! Now you claim that you knew all alone I wasn't cut out for the Job. Tell me in which statement did you lie? The first one congratulating me or the one you make now? I suspect that truth isn't very important to you Lance.
RE: [TruthTalk] The dearly departed
cd: No, it was not honest. But then again since when did this dancing brotherhood ever worry about honesty-or truth-or The Truth? They are a fine testimony for their group thinking religion-which they claim is ongoing revelation given by the decision of the majority of the group. They claim to decide if God is Male / Female or whatever- I asked them : What if the majority decided that God is a calf and to date have gotten no reply to this question.. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/14/2006 11:58:47 AM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] The dearly departed So why did jd inquire of you about them? Was that honest??? iz On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 20:22:45 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: cd; They have been in contact with Miller - Blain, DH ,John, Gary- and believe it or not Glen tabor.All in one group e-Mail-of which I seem to be the topic. From: ShieldsFamily Why dont you contact them directly? You have their email addresses, as do the rest of us. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] By the way -- are we allowed to ask as to the status of Gary and DH? They are missed on this forum by some. jd
RE: [TruthTalk] The dearly departed
cd: I have not removed you from my list John-but it is a thought. I suggest you check and see where you sent the mail-If it went to the Mormon Church then open it slowly with Armour on. - Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/14/2006 12:02:25 PM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] The dearly departed Linda, how is it troublesome to ask about those who are on temporary leave? I have been with TT for over two years, now, and no one to my memory has ever been permanently removed. Plus -- the last time I wrote to Dean on the side - my mail came back. So , maybe you are not as fully imformed as you pretend to be. jd -- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Why would you prefer to ask of our moderator, unless you are attempting to stir up public strife? iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 4:21 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] The dearly departed I have no reason to do it your way, Linda. But thanks for the well meaning advice. jd -- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Why dont you contact them directly? You have their email addresses, as do the rest of us. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 1:52 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] The dearly departed By the way -- are we allowed to ask as to the status of Gary and DH? They are missed on this forum by some. jd
Re: [TruthTalk] David Miller 2
cd: Took him a while to figure that one out-But I think he may finally have it :-) - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/14/2006 6:47:53 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] David Miller 2 WOW what a revelation! Just about as shocking as when I learned that Baptists were "anti - charismatic" ROTFL[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This "fellowship " is anti - charismatic !! Membership Requirements The following requirements are mandatory for all members accepted into the Street Preachers Fellowship.1. Each person wishing to join the Fellowship must first submit an application to the Assistant Director of Membership Standards. 2. Each applicant shall be a born again child of God, having repented of his ungodliness, and turned to God through the faith that is in Jesus Christ as our Lord and only Saviour. 3. Each applicant must be a member of a non-charismatic, New Testament local church that would adhere to the written Doctrinal Principles governing the Street Preachers Fellowship. 4. Each applicant must submit with his application the $100 yearly dues as established by the Fellowship. 5. Each member must voluntarily abide by the Fellowships Street Ministers Creed in his daily Christian life, and open air preaching. 6. Each member shall actively participate in an open air, street preaching ministry on a monthly basis, and seek to support his State Chapter in its quarterly meetings, and remain abreast of all training and legal information published by the Fellowship. 7. Each member must willfully and actively seek to incorporate the Biblical and legal disciplines taught by the Fellowship into his particular open air ministration. To apply for membership, please fill out this application and send it in. Yahoo! MailUse Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
Re: [TruthTalk] TruthTalk re: continued comments under "Moderator"
cd: Sister Judy, I thank your for your kind words. Know that I hesitate to leave my brothers/sister on this site to the wickedness that lives here. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/13/2006 7:47:35 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] TruthTalk re: continued comments under "Moderator" Some things are beyond understanding Dean; I 'm really sorry to hear that you are no longer the moderator just when I was beginning to enjoy a different and more palatable list environment; please don't go anywhere. On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 19:36:31 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: cd: Judy he probably will be the next moderator:-) From: Judy Taylor Stirring the pot is trying to do the "moderator's" job when you are not the moderator JD On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:46:18 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Since I wrote that post, you did it again -- obviously to make a point, Kevin. You fly in the face of the rules and then pretend to pass moral judgment on others ??!! And who is stirring the pot? The one who points to the rule or the one who wilfully violates the rule? But we are just arguing , now. Each of us have made our points. Let's go to the next unanswered question, shall we? jd From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Still stirring the POT? Wicked me, I just hit reply, did not notice Thanks for pointing out this great character flaw. So ban me Why are you so INTERESTED in GNATS when you can swallow a camel? But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You remember David Miller, Kevin. That would be the owner of this list. He's from Florida -- Beverly Hills, I believe. Well, on March the 9th, he wrote this: Dear TruthTalk list members: If you see a post that has Moderator Comment or something similar, please do not reply to that post to the list. If you want to comment on it to the moderator, do so off list. If you think it appropriate to courtesy copy me or other TruthTalk members, please do so. David Miller Just curious why one side of the aisle gets to violate this rule while the other does not. Only a curiosity on my part. jd -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Are you running for MODERATerr? Vote for JD![EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why is Linda's compliment to Dean posted under the "Moderators Comment +++" heading not once, but twice? Have the rules changed on this. I know the owner of the List, David Miller (Beverly Hills , Florida) complained about this very thing yesterday, I believe. With nearly ever post, Dean, I am looking forward to our debate with increasing enthusiasm. I am thinking David, if he would take time, could be the "rules master" (if you will). My question, above remains. Also, I am at a loss for the complaint against DH. jd Yahoo! MailBring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. Yahoo! MailBring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
Re: [TruthTalk] The dearly departed
cd: Does the foolish need a reason to be foolish? I also reason to believe that they have spoken behind my back on the phone- Wickedness whispering in Millers ear lies and half-truth-put a little truth-show a little emotion in the mix and there you have it. This is what happened with John-but I refused till he show signs of remorse. He hung around so long in private that he reminded me of that stray dog that refused to leave my house. After a while I started feeding it out of pity-Turned out to be a worthless dog in the end-didn't have no appreciation for the food, me ,or the pity.Just a worthless dog-that bites the hand that feeds it.Sound familiar? - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/14/2006 1:02:48 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The dearly departed Why do ppl so love darkness and gossip and one upping the next guy?? Along with stirring the pot - where's the love?? On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 20:22:45 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: cd; They have been in contact with Miller - Blain, DH ,John, Gary- and believe it or not Glen tabor.All in one group e-Mail-of which I seem to be the topic. From: ShieldsFamily Why dont you contact them directly? You have their email addresses, as do the rest of us. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] By the way -- are we allowed to ask as to the status of Gary and DH? They are missed on this forum by some. jd
RE: [TruthTalk] Changed the subj so I do not get accused by the
cd: Something wicked has already been here-Rooted deep and now does it,s work-have you noticed that it chose a site where street preachers are. By the way do you want some help with the Miller discussion-He's not so tough. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/13/2006 9:09:10 PM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Changed the subj so I do not get accused by the I can see the fix is in. Something wicked this way comes.Dean Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: cd: O.K I bite -Are you suggesting that I stay around and endure the lies-fight the Mormons-Spank the almost Christians-ridicule the Calvinists- and try to understand the non-understandable David?? If not what are you saying? I think we should go to that Mormon site you told me about?Take Judy and izzy with us- invite Perry-and have a blast?:-) What say ye? - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/13/2006 8:37:27 AM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Changed the subj so I do not get accused by the Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ. And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not. Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Not my point : )Dean Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: cd: It it a real crises to me Kevin-While St. Preaching I can go home and relax get my mind off the garbage-As Moderator-I am at home and must read every post-no break. I do see your point though.- Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/12/2006 11:53:04 PM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] ***Moderator Comment At the current situation on TT one will lose their closeness with God What then would you do in a REAL CRISIS? Jer 12 If thou hast run with the footmen, and they have wearied thee, then how canst thou contend with horses? and [if] in the land of peace, [wherein] thou trustedst, [they wearied thee], then how wilt thou do in the swelling of Jordan? Dean Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/12/2006 5:53:52 PM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] ***Moderator Comment Thanks for the good job; a welcome breather for a while. iz cd: Thanks sis.-Don't know how long it will last but I will do the best I can. I am sorry that I asked you,Kevin, Judy to come back to this site-I was a mistake.At the current situation on TT one will lose their closeness with God-as Perry has stated. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean MooreSent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 3:28 PMTo: TruthTalkSubject: [TruthTalk] ***Moderator Comment Dave H. and Gary O. will no longer be posting to this list-or until some issues are settled. I have given them many opportunity to stop the attacks or apologize to those they falsely accused. They have chosen not to do so. Rev.2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses! Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses! __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [TruthTalk] Private Moderator
cd: Yes, You are correct it is your imagination. By the way remove me from your/this list. This goes for the entire group on this list. I do not want any of you to contact me in private again- David I do not want you to call my home again-lose the phone # as I have a (2) grievances against you-that will be presented before God-both now and on that day. One you know the other is the fact that you left me out in the world for almost 2 years before you told/invited me among the brethren (S.P..) I did not at the time understand why churches rejected those that preach the gospel and why people hated me for doing so-you knew this. This was a hard time in my life-and you didn't even present me to the brethren until it made you look good to have someone come with you to New Orleans-two years later. I have thought on this for years and now know why God sent me at a latter date and I missed you. Now I know that you have more love for the wicked then you do for the brethren-You allow wickedness among them and no matter h ow many members of the Church are hurt/offended or lead into wickiness-Your belief is -lets not cause harm to Satan's messenger boys-You have it backwards David. TT is not a Christian site it is a secular site that Satan uses to cause a root of bitterness to grow in the brethren and to lead the weak/youngers Christians into sin-That is what was happening with the Astrology readings- You as leader of this site gave your personal info to the Hell bound Pagan astrology for a reading and we were suppose to jump on the train-that is why all the smiling was given by you at the time. Same thing with your comment to me years ago about the Mormon religion tempting you and asking me if it was the same with me.Clearly Satan's work. Remember this: Pride comes before the fall-as a prideful man will not listen to warning nor truth nor consider their wrong actions as the spirit of wackiness tempts them into area-I believe you have harbored that spirit and it will cause more harm to your soul. I leave you with these words- This type only comes out "by prayer and fasting". May God bless you and his light shine upon you and I mean that as I hope you will listen to the seriousness of these charges. I will stay around to defend this post also. - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 3/13/2006 11:08:25 PM Subject: Re: Private Moderator So why do a lot of SPers seem to have problems in these areas? Or.Is it my imagination?[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There are 3 things God does that God does not allow us to do. They are too big for us to handle. My guess is that Pharisees with TT's double standard will laugh at this. 1. Get angry (The Bible compares anger to murder.) 2. Be jealous (God is a jealous God, but we can't handle jealousy.) 3. Be judge of others eternal destiny. (We can inspect fruit and we can smell rotten fruit, but we must leave the eternal judging to God.) -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
RE: [TruthTalk] Changed the subj so I do not get accused by the
cd: O-Well Thank you for that.Wonder why he told some to shake the dust off their feet-but tells others to stay no matter what. Think some are tougher then others? - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/13/2006 8:31:37 PM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Changed the subj so I do not get accused by the Sorry I just meant it is God's point from His word!Dean Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: cd: O.K. Bro- Since you are not going to voluntary to give your point- What is you point! :-) - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/13/2006 8:35:04 AM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Changed the subj so I do not get accused by the Not my point : )Dean Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: cd: It it a real crises to me Kevin-While St. Preaching I can go home and relax get my mind off the garbage-As Moderator-I am at home and must read every post-no break. I do see your point though.- Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/12/2006 11:53:04 PM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] ***Moderator Comment At the current situation on TT one will lose their closeness with God What then would you do in a REAL CRISIS? Jer 12 If thou hast run with the footmen, and they have wearied thee, then how canst thou contend with horses? and [if] in the land of peace, [wherein] thou trustedst, [they wearied thee], then how wilt thou do in the swelling of Jordan? Dean Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/12/2006 5:53:52 PM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] ***Moderator Comment Thanks for the good job; a welcome breather for a while. iz cd: Thanks sis.-Don't know how long it will last but I will do the best I can. I am sorry that I asked you,Kevin, Judy to come back to this site-I was a mistake.At the current situation on TT one will lose their closeness with God-as Perry has stated. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean MooreSent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 3:28 PMTo: TruthTalkSubject: [TruthTalk] ***Moderator Comment Dave H. and Gary O. will no longer be posting to this list-or until some issues are settled. I have given them many opportunity to stop the attacks or apologize to those they falsely accused. They have chosen not to do so. Rev.2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses! Yahoo! MailUse Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
RE: [TruthTalk] The dearly departed
cd; They have been in contact with Miller - Blain, DH ,John, Gary- and believe it or not Glen tabor.All in one group e-Mail-of which I seem to be the topic. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/13/2006 3:55:01 PM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] The dearly departed Why dont you contact them directly? You have their email addresses, as do the rest of us. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 1:52 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] The dearly departed By the way -- are we allowed to ask as to the status of Gary and DH? They are missed on this forum by some. jd
Re: [TruthTalk] Is a Mormon a Christian?
cd: Much truth in what you said Kevin. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/13/2006 7:35:53 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is a Mormon a Christian? And many around here don't know their final destination either![EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have we all forgotten that the DM's comments had to do with how to proceed on TT -- and had nothing to do with is or who is not really a Christian.. This should not take any brain power at all -- I understood David to be talking about a show of respect. As he has said -- "Christian" is not a word that presents others with a picture of where any of us spend eternity. There is no biblical argument for the use of this word. and Deegan does not know of the destiny of a single specific person. jd -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> You seem more interested in the philosophy of just what is and what is not a christian.Is the dictionary definition correct or not.What is much more important is the fact that DH is headed for eternal torment.Man overboard!Do you want to discuss wether we throw the blue/white life preserver to him or the red/white?David Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: The thing is, some Baptists, some Methodists, some ... name your favorite sect of Christianity, also are not what you are. Some of them worship idols too. Do you agree?David Miller- Original Message - From: Kevin DeeganTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Monday, March 13, 2006 2:10 PMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is a Mormon a Christian?I do not put any special emphasis on using the term christian.Whatever you may say I am it is definitely NOT what DH is.Call it what you want.FAITH vs IDOL worship?Does that work?David Miller wrote:Kevin wrote:> Do you see Jesus & Paul using your> Dictionary definition of Christian?Jesus never used the term Christian and never even heard the term"Christian." Paul was known as a Nazarene (Acts 24:5) and he offers us nodefinition for the word Christian. I see th e word as refering to those whoprofess to follow the teaching of Christ. People can argue about whetherothers actually do follow Christ or not, but that seems to me to be anotherdebate. When more than 80% of people in the United States identifythemselves as being a Christian, it seems to me that it would not be veryproductive to spend our time trying to argue with them that they are notreally Christian at all. Does being a Christian save anybody? No. Faithin the person of Jesus Christ is what saves. I think that gets lost when wefocus too much on the sect of Christianity and its rightful definition.Do you think that there is something holy or special about the word"Christian" for the Bible believer?As for Anti-Christs being Christian, well, of course that will be the case.Judas Iscariot was a Nazarene and look how he turned out. Should we expectChristianity to be pure and void of any Judas Iscariots? I don't think so.David Miller- Original Message - From: Kevin DeeganTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Friday, March 10, 2006 3:14 PMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is a Mormon a Christian?Do you see Jesus & Paul using your Dictionary definition of Christian?Under this definition then, a decieved one who follows ANTI Christ is trulya Christian!1) He truly Believes he is worshipping Jesus Christ2) He truly believes the one he is following was sent by God3) He follows his teachings and exampleBut in reality he is a hell bound sinner.Help me contextualize, this apparent contradictionDavid Miller wrote:Judy wrote:> What reason would anyone on TT have> to assume that a lifelong Mormon is also> a Christian?Following is how my dictionary defines a Christian:Chris·tiannoun (plural Chris·tians)1. believer in Jesus Christ as savior: somebody who believes that JesusChrist was sent to the world by God to save humanity, and who tries tofollow his teachings an d exampleIf we accept the secular definition of believer as somebody who believes inthe teachings of a particular religious faith, then from my perspective ,Mormonism falls into this category of Christian. This does not mean thatthey have the right belief system, or that any of them will be saved. Itsimply places them in the Christian category, as a religious sect that iscentered on the idea that Jesus Christ is the Savior sent by God to savehumanity. There are false sects within Christianity, and I think the Mormonsects are among them.David Miller.--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may knowhow you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have afriend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. Brings words and photos together (easily) withPhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.--"
RE: [TruthTalk] Changed the subj so I do not get accused by the
cd: O.K I bite -Are you suggesting that I stay around and endure the lies-fight the Mormons-Spank the almost Christians-ridicule the Calvinists- and try to understand the non-understandable David?? If not what are you saying? I think we should go to that Mormon site you told me about?Take Judy and izzy with us- invite Perry-and have a blast?:-) What say ye? - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/13/2006 8:37:27 AM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Changed the subj so I do not get accused by the Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ. And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not. Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Not my point : )Dean Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: cd: It it a real crises to me Kevin-While St. Preaching I can go home and relax get my mind off the garbage-As Moderator-I am at home and must read every post-no break. I do see your point though.- Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/12/2006 11:53:04 PM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] ***Moderator Comment At the current situation on TT one will lose their closeness with God What then would you do in a REAL CRISIS? Jer 12 If thou hast run with the footmen, and they have wearied thee, then how canst thou contend with horses? and [if] in the land of peace, [wherein] thou trustedst, [they wearied thee], then how wilt thou do in the swelling of Jordan? Dean Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/12/2006 5:53:52 PM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] ***Moderator Comment Thanks for the good job; a welcome breather for a while. iz cd: Thanks sis.-Don't know how long it will last but I will do the best I can. I am sorry that I asked you,Kevin, Judy to come back to this site-I was a mistake.At the current situation on TT one will lose their closeness with God-as Perry has stated. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean MooreSent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 3:28 PMTo: TruthTalkSubject: [TruthTalk] ***Moderator Comment Dave H. and Gary O. will no longer be posting to this list-or until some issues are settled. I have given them many opportunity to stop the attacks or apologize to those they falsely accused. They have chosen not to do so. Rev.2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses! Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses!
RE: [TruthTalk] Changed the subj so I do not get accused by the
cd: O.K. Bro- Since you are not going to voluntary to give your point- What is you point! :-) - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/13/2006 8:35:04 AM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Changed the subj so I do not get accused by the Not my point : )Dean Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: cd: It it a real crises to me Kevin-While St. Preaching I can go home and relax get my mind off the garbage-As Moderator-I am at home and must read every post-no break. I do see your point though.- Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/12/2006 11:53:04 PM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] ***Moderator Comment At the current situation on TT one will lose their closeness with God What then would you do in a REAL CRISIS? Jer 12 If thou hast run with the footmen, and they have wearied thee, then how canst thou contend with horses? and [if] in the land of peace, [wherein] thou trustedst, [they wearied thee], then how wilt thou do in the swelling of Jordan? Dean Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/12/2006 5:53:52 PM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] ***Moderator Comment Thanks for the good job; a welcome breather for a while. iz cd: Thanks sis.-Don't know how long it will last but I will do the best I can. I am sorry that I asked you,Kevin, Judy to come back to this site-I was a mistake.At the current situation on TT one will lose their closeness with God-as Perry has stated. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean MooreSent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 3:28 PMTo: TruthTalkSubject: [TruthTalk] ***Moderator Comment Dave H. and Gary O. will no longer be posting to this list-or until some issues are settled. I have given them many opportunity to stop the attacks or apologize to those they falsely accused. They have chosen not to do so. Rev.2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses!
Re: [TruthTalk] TruthTalk re: continued comments under "Moderator"
cd: No need to apologize to me Judy- but I do understand- You were the one who taught me the problem with this rule. Sorry that I could not help you guys more in my Mod. job. Know that I tried. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/13/2006 10:58:39 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] TruthTalk re: continued comments under "Moderator" OOphs!! Me too? Sorry brother Dean. I did just what you say below which is "hit send" without checking the subject line No evil intent, just not paying enough attention. On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 06:40:28 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: cd: Judy this is also a rule that does not work I have had member reply to Moderator post apologizing for replying to the moderator post. David decided to step in and assume my Job by making the statement to not reply to the Moderator.I have no problem with you doing so. I tried to support this rules but it is not working. We are to used to clicking the send button without looking at the subject line. I stopped supporting this rule about two weeks ago. From: ShieldsFamily Oh, yeahsorry! Ill repost under this heading: Thanks Brother Dean. J iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Why is Linda's compliment to Dean posted under the "Moderators Comment +++" heading not once, but twice? Have the rules changed on this. I know the owner of the List, David Miller (Beverly Hills , Florida) complained about this very thing yesterday, I believe. With nearly ever post, Dean, I am looking forward to our debate with increasing enthusiasm. I am thinking David, if he would take time, could be the "rules master" (if you will). My question, above remains. Also, I am at a loss for the complaint against DH. jd
Re: [TruthTalk] TruthTalk re: continued comments under "Moderator"
cd: Judy he probably will be the next moderator:-) - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/13/2006 7:06:34 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] TruthTalk re: continued comments under "Moderator" Stirring the pot is trying to do the "moderator's" job when you are not the moderator JD On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:46:18 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Since I wrote that post, you did it again -- obviously to make a point, Kevin. You fly in the face of the rules and then pretend to pass moral judgment on others ??!! And who is stirring the pot? The one who points to the rule or the one who wilfully violates the rule? But we are just arguing , now. Each of us have made our points. Let's go to the next unanswered question, shall we? jd From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Still stirring the POT? Wicked me, I just hit reply, did not notice Thanks for pointing out this great character flaw. So ban me Why are you so INTERESTED in GNATS when you can swallow a camel? But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You remember David Miller, Kevin. That would be the owner of this list. He's from Florida -- Beverly Hills, I believe. Well, on March the 9th, he wrote this: Dear TruthTalk list members: If you see a post that has Moderator Comment or something similar, please do not reply to that post to the list. If you want to comment on it to the moderator, do so off list. If you think it appropriate to courtesy copy me or other TruthTalk members, please do so. David Miller Just curious why one side of the aisle gets to violate this rule while the other does not. Only a curiosity on my part. jd -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Are you running for MODERATerr? Vote for JD![EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why is Linda's compliment to Dean posted under the "Moderators Comment +++" heading not once, but twice? Have the rules changed on this. I know the owner of the List, David Miller (Beverly Hills , Florida) complained about this very thing yesterday, I believe. With nearly ever post, Dean, I am looking forward to our debate with increasing enthusiasm. I am thinking David, if he would take time, could be the "rules master" (if you will). My question, above remains. Also, I am at a loss for the complaint against DH. jd Yahoo! MailBring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. Yahoo! MailBring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
[TruthTalk] ************ Non-Moderator Comment*********************
I am no longer Moderator of Truth talk. David requested that I step down-so I have done so.Know that I am not one bit ashamed of my actions as Moderator-The shame belongs those who caused problems and to those who would not support me in this task. Yours, in Christ, Carroll D. Moore. Rev.2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations
Re: [TruthTalk] Astrology-Miller
cd:Judy I am not lying.- See below in blue and red. - Original Message - From: David Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/13/2006 12:00:46 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Astrology-Miller Judy, I never inquired Blaine's expertise in astrology regarding my birth sign, and it would be better to say that my comment to him was about his INACCURACY in astrology. So take it to the bank that I have been misrepresented by Dean because of his misreading of my post. Lance is entirely right when he speaks of a faulty reading. So do you now conclude that Dean is lying or is genuinely deceived? I prefer to think of it as a misunderstanding, not understanding what he is reading. David Miller -- cd: I don't appreciate being called a Liar David- Here are the post to support my statements. You gave Blaine you birth date (Highlighted in Red)for a reading and you remarked you were an identical twin and understood about Astrology being a reality check-after Blain mentioned Identical twins were different-Ask for forgiveness or be held accountable for partaking of pagan practices and for falsely accusing your brother in Christ.Start at the bottom and work up the page. cd: I am surprised and disappointed that you would be any part of this sin David. > [Original Message] > From: David Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Date: 2/15/2006 6:45:59 PM > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Behind the scenes conversations re:David Miller > > Blaine, considering that I am an identical twin myself, I do understand how > what you just said would be a reality check for astrology. :-) > > David Miller > Born March 3, 1960 > 4:50 am > Cleveland, Ohio. > In a snow blizzard that dumped 24 inches of snow. > > > > David Miller > > > > p.s. Blaine... my astrological sign is pices. I guess that astrology isn't > > helping you be too predictive after all. :-) > > Thank you David, I have wondered about that. Pisces is my opposite sign, > and, being the sign of transition from Winter to Spring, is next to Aries, > the sign that ushers in Springtime (1st degree Aries is also the first day > of Spring). I believe all things are written in the stars--the trick is > in reading them accurately. :>) I try, and sometimes get pretty close to > people by doing so. But humans are so complex!! Astrology helps, but is > not, of course, infallible. But thanks for being open--lots of people will > not divulge their birth info to me, probably think by doing so I might form > unjustified opinions of them. :>) > > One thing, though, without precise birth info--date, time of day, and place > of birth--you can't tell too much beyond generalities. The beauty of precise > astrological analysis is that no two personalities can ever be the same--not > even identical twins--which is a reality check for astrology few people > understand. > Blainer > > > > > - Original Message - > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] il.innglory.org > > Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 2:07 PM > > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Behind the scenes conversations re:David Miller > > > > In a message dated 2/13/2006 12:02:28 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > > > I've not forgotten you, David. IMO, you are both incorrect and immoveable > > on > > at least a portion of that which is under discussion. What I've got to > > determine is whether or not it is worth the 'ink' to engage further with > > you > > given what I've just said. I'm checking around with some who've read you > > over time. > > > > Lance. > > > > Yes, David is pretty fixed--he was probably born under one of the four > > fixed > > signs--Leo, Taurus, Scorpio, or Aquarius. Or, he's one of those highly > > independent Aries characters, who never admit to being wrong!! If I knew > > for sure, I could read him better. > > Blainerb > > > -- > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org > > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 9:37 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Astrology-Miller Understanding is not the issue here Lance ... Did David Miller inquire of Blaine's expertise in astrology regarding his birth sign? He either did or he did not regardless of personal views If he did then he IS NOT being misrepresented here. IF he DID NOT then someone is lying about it or genuinely deceived (with same outcome) On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 06:54:14 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Your criticism of DM on astrolog
Re: [TruthTalk] Is a Mormon a Christian?
cd:Concerning our Debate- Try and not bring a unloaded gun to a gun fight. - Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/12/2006 10:41:13 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is a Mormon a Christian? Actually, he only dreams on this one. There are no traps set. Dean is as predictable as tomorrow's sunrise. The second he was announced "moderator," I, for one knew, exactly what was about to happen. I suspect I was not the only one with this "knowing." Not passing judgment in this post -- just making my observation clear. Traps keep that in mind until after Dean and I have our debate. Should be interesting. jd -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Have you ever wondered that from the start that this was planned Are you going Calvinist? ; ) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: cd: The you need to set limits on the authority you give to others-see below- I am only doing the job you asked me to do David. The site is growing again-membership is up/posting is up-are you upset because I am getting resentment from some of Satan's messenger boys? That should be expected by you David as this is exactly what happens on the street when God is working-Satan howls.. And who might these be ??? cd: If I wanted to identify them I would have put their names in the above: But I suspect you know.Do you consider this to be Ad. Hom? Close to Ad. Hom.? How strong is this Ad. Hom rules in it's present form-as in it ability to protect others from attacks.Have you ever wondered that from the start that this was planned and some people just love walking into traps?Scary huh:-) If I knew, Dean, I would not have asked. It certainly is not ad hom if it is associated with specific persons and/or is on subject. Your disagreement with the owner of this list is not something I find very interesting -- I have not followed it closely enough to be able to judge whether you are on thread or not. I do NOT find it humorous, however, to realize that David has lost control of his own list. I do not mean that as a slam against DM -- it is simply my observation of the situation. You have not only put DM on notice, but you have chosen to usurp the very authority he has give to you !! Remarkable. jd -- Original message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] won't it be v interesting if DaveH gets it, Bro? On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 17:37:14 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You are safe, with this, G. I and probably Lance will be the only ones who get !! For the record, I completely disagree with this characterization -- but it is funny. jd -- Original message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 05:57:23 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: DH -- ..How long have you known Deegan and Moore and how much closer to convertin are you now -- after hearing them "preach" ..[law] these many years? jd || Yahoo! MailBring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
RE: [TruthTalk] ***********Moderator Comment****************
cd: It it a real crises to me Kevin-While St. Preaching I can go home and relax get my mind off the garbage-As Moderator-I am at home and must read every post-no break. I do see your point though.- Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/12/2006 11:53:04 PM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] ***Moderator Comment At the current situation on TT one will lose their closeness with God What then would you do in a REAL CRISIS? Jer 12 If thou hast run with the footmen, and they have wearied thee, then how canst thou contend with horses? and [if] in the land of peace, [wherein] thou trustedst, [they wearied thee], then how wilt thou do in the swelling of Jordan? Dean Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/12/2006 5:53:52 PM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] ***Moderator Comment Thanks for the good job; a welcome breather for a while. iz cd: Thanks sis.-Don't know how long it will last but I will do the best I can. I am sorry that I asked you,Kevin, Judy to come back to this site-I was a mistake.At the current situation on TT one will lose their closeness with God-as Perry has stated. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean MooreSent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 3:28 PMTo: TruthTalkSubject: [TruthTalk] ***Moderator Comment Dave H. and Gary O. will no longer be posting to this list-or until some issues are settled. I have given them many opportunity to stop the attacks or apologize to those they falsely accused. They have chosen not to do so. Rev.2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [TruthTalk] TruthTalk re: continued comments under "Moderator"
Moderator. At this time David is not Moderator of this site-I have that job.. If he wishes to be so then I should be informed by David not you. I have not been so informed-till then I will decide not David. So stop trying to stir up trouble John. - Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/12/2006 10:26:41 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] TruthTalk re: continued comments under "Moderator" You remember David Miller, Kevin. That would be the owner of this list. He's from Florida -- Beverly Hills, I believe. Well, on March the 9th, he wrote this: Dear TruthTalk list members: If you see a post that has Moderator Comment or something similar, please do not reply to that post to the list. If you want to comment on it to the moderator, do so off list. If you think it appropriate to courtesy copy me or other TruthTalk members, please do so. David Miller Just curious why one side of the aisle gets to violate this rule while the other does not. Only a curiosity on my part. jd -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Are you running for MODERATerr? Vote for JD![EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why is Linda's compliment to Dean posted under the "Moderators Comment +++" heading not once, but twice? Have the rules changed on this. I know the owner of the List, David Miller (Beverly Hills , Florida) complained about this very thing yesterday, I believe. With nearly ever post, Dean, I am looking forward to our debate with increasing enthusiasm. I am thinking David, if he would take time, could be the "rules master" (if you will). My question, above remains. Also, I am at a loss for the complaint against DH. jd Yahoo! MailBring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
Re: [TruthTalk] Is a Mormon a Christian?
- Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/12/2006 9:49:11 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is a Mormon a Christian? Have you ever wondered that from the start that this was planned Are you going Calvinist? ; ) cd: Cute Kevin:-) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: cd: The you need to set limits on the authority you give to others-see below- I am only doing the job you asked me to do David. The site is growing again-membership is up/posting is up-are you upset because I am getting resentment from some of Satan's messenger boys? That should be expected by you David as this is exactly what happens on the street when God is working-Satan howls.. And who might these be ??? cd: If I wanted to identify them I would have put their names in the above: But I suspect you know.Do you consider this to be Ad. Hom? Close to Ad. Hom.? How strong is this Ad. Hom rules in it's present form-as in it ability to protect others from attacks.Have you ever wondered that from the start that this was planned and some people just love walking into traps?Scary huh:-) If I knew, Dean, I would not have asked. It certainly is not ad hom if it is associated with specific persons and/or is on subject. Your disagreement with the owner of this list is not something I find very interesting -- I have not followed it closely enough to be able to judge whether you are on thread or not. I do NOT find it humorous, however, to realize that David has lost control of his own list. I do not mean that as a slam against DM -- it is simply my observation of the situation. You have not only put DM on notice, but you have chosen to ursurp the very authority he has give to you !! Remarkable. jd -- Original message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] won't it be v interesting if DaveH gets it, Bro? On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 17:37:14 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You are safe, with this, G. I and probably Lance will be the only ones who get !! For the record, I completely disagree with this characterization -- but it is funny. jd -- Original message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 05:57:23 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: DH -- ..How long have you known Deegan and Moore and how much closer to convertin are you now -- after hearing them "preach" ..[law] these many years? jd || Yahoo! MailBring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
Re: [TruthTalk] Mormons Pagan History not Christian
It is from the book: Mormonism, Shadow or Reality?That you encouraged me to but in SLC. Thanks it came in handy. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/12/2006 9:33:59 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Mormons Pagan History not Christian Nice pics similar to the 77 edition of the Book of Mormon had all this PAGAN stuff pictured in it. It all was removed in later editions after it was pointed out it was Anachronistic.Dean Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: cd: Good reading-Only Half a page. Rev.2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations Brings words and photos together (easily) withPhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.
RE: [TruthTalk] TruthTalk re: continued comments under "Moderator"
- Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/12/2006 9:20:45 PM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] TruthTalk re: continued comments under "Moderator" Oh, yeahsorry! Ill repost under this heading: Thanks Brother Dean. J iz cd: Judy this is also a rule that does not work I have had member reply to Moderator post apologizing for replying to the moderator post. David decided to step in and assume my Job by making the statement to not reply to the Moderator.I have no problem with you doing so. I tried to support this rules but it is not working. We are to used to clicking the send button without looking at the subject line. I stopped supporting this rule about two weeks ago. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 7:05 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: [TruthTalk] TruthTalk re: continued comments under "Moderator" Why is Linda's compliment to Dean posted under the "Moderators Comment +++" heading not once, but twice? Have the rules changed on this. I know the owner of the List, David Miller (Beverly Hills , Florida) complained about this very thing yesterday, I believe. With nearly ever post, Dean, I am looking forward to our debate with increasing enthusiasm. I am thinking David, if he would take time, could be the "rules master" (if you will). My question, above remains. Also, I am at a loss for the complaint against DH. jd
Re: [TruthTalk] Is a Mormon a Christian?
cd: Then respectfully John ,stop speaking like you know the limit and structure of my duties as moderator.I am not after Davids site period-but I will do my duty the best of my ability.If members do others wrong then they should apologize or leave-You of all people should understand this. - Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/12/2006 7:48:41 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is a Mormon a Christian? Perhaps you need to clarify with DavidM He seemed to be somewhat critical in a recent exchange with you. If I were moderator, Dean, I beleive it would be apparent that the list still belonged to David. I am not so sure that is the case with you , at the present time. jd -- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cd: And what authority did he give me John-You act as if you have knowledge on the subject- What is my Job as Moderator? You have not only put DM on notice, but you have chosen to ursurp the very authority he has give to you !! Remarkable. jd -- Original message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] won't it be v interesting if DaveH gets it, Bro? On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 17:37:14 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You are safe, with this, G. I and probably Lance will be the only ones who get !! For the record, I completely disagree with this characterization -- but it is funny. jd -- Original message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 05:57:23 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: DH -- ..How long have you known Deegan and Moore and how much closer to convertin are you now -- after hearing them "preach" ..[law] these many years? jd ||
Re: [TruthTalk] Is a Mormon a Christian?
- Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/12/2006 7:46:01 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is a Mormon a Christian? Am sorry Dean but I cannot figure this one out. Could you rewrite or something: But he has no way of knowing about conversions in SLC. Ask yourself this- why would a person the pushes the commandments that put his life on the line gain due to belief in the one who wrote the commandments gain from lying about a group of pagans? jd OK John-We have seen many come to God in SLC.My honesty was questioned and in my defense I stated that have encouraged others to keep God's commandments and have placed my life on the line for the Gospels sake-With this in mind (my Character)would I be prone to lie over such a small matter? -- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cd: Perry confirmed that you probably believed what you wrote-saw a hint of mockers with the pray acceptance-and stated that you more then likely misunderstood what type of prayer we would make for you. But he has no way of knowing about conversions in SLC. Ask yourself this- why would a person the pushes the commandments that put his life on the line gain due to belief in the one who wrote the commandments gain from lying about a group of pagans? - Original Message - From: Dave To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/12/2006 11:53:25 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is a Mormon a Christian? We see many Mormon conversion in SLC.DAVEH: As was recently asked of you..Perry do you think Judge Dean is speaking the truth here? Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is a Mormon a Christian? DH -- it's time we stop meeting this way. You over there with your dialogue with Kevin and me with whoever will listen. two old farts fighting nappy time !! How long have you known Deegan and Moore and how much closer to convertin are you now -- after hearing them "preach" for low these many years? jd cd: Careful John- Was Christ's giving the wrong mesasage in not converting Judas who as in his mists for three years- We see many Mormon conversion in SLC. Satan has also been around the gospel for an awful long time-and can also quote scripture.What was your Point again? -- Original message -- From: Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Do you see Jesus & Paul using your Dictionary definition of Christian?DAVEH: Some time ago, it was me (LDS in general) being accused by TTers of changing definitions to suit our (LDS) needs. Now it seems you want to do the same thing, Kevin. If you don't want to use the conventional dictionary definition of Christian, then it seems prudent to give us (TTers) your own definitionplease.Kevin Deegan wrote: Do you see Jesus & Paul using your Dictionary definition of Christian?Under this definition then, a decieved one who follows ANTI Christ is truly a Christian!1) He truly Believes he is worshipping Jesus Christ2) He truly believes the one he is following was sent by God3) He follows his teachings and exampleBut in reality he is a hell bound sinner.Help me contextualize, this apparent contradictionDavid Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Judy wrote:> What reason would anyone on TT have> to assume that a lifelong Mormon is also> a Christian?Following is how my dictionary defines a Christian:Chris·tiannoun (plural Chris·tians)1. believer in Jesus Christ as savior: somebody who believes that Jesus Christ was sent to the world by God to save humanity, and who tries to follow his teachings and exampleIf we accept the secular definition of believer as somebody who believes in the teachings of a particular religious faith, then from my perspective , Mormonism falls into this category of Christian. This does not mean that they have the right belief system, or that any of them will be saved. It simply places them in the Christian category, as a religious sect that is centered on the idea that Jesus Christ is the Savior sent by God to save humanity. There are false sects within Christianity, and I think the Mor mon sects are among them.David Miller.-- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
RE: [TruthTalk] ***********Moderator Comment****************
- Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/12/2006 5:53:52 PM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] ***Moderator Comment Thanks for the good job; a welcome breather for a while. iz cd: Thanks sis.-Don't know how long it will last but I will do the best I can. I am sorry that I asked you,Kevin, Judy to come back to this site-I was a mistake.At the current situation on TT one will lose their closeness with God-as Perry has stated. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean MooreSent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 3:28 PMTo: TruthTalkSubject: [TruthTalk] ***Moderator Comment Dave H. and Gary O. will no longer be posting to this list-or until some issues are settled. I have given them many opportunity to stop the attacks or apologize to those they falsely accused. They have chosen not to do so. Rev.2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations
[TruthTalk] ***********Moderator Comment****************
Dave H. and Gary O. will no longer be posting to this list-or until some issues are settled. I have given them many opportunity to stop the attacks or apologize to those they falsely accused. They have chosen not to do so. Rev.2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations
Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
- Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/12/2006 3:02:03 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Where in scripture is the "doctrine of the carnal believer" taught JD? cd: Here it is Judy-but these guys two-step around this passage. Rev 3:1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead. Rev 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God. Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. Rev 3:4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. Rev 3:6 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the church Paul mentions baby believers being afflicted with envyings, strife, and divisions in your reference here. I don't see anything to do with fornication and/or addictions though. These are more akin to the "doctrine of Balaam" Rev 2:14 which is not good. How many Israeli men were slain in one day over this? was it 24,000? On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 17:13:06 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Like I said before -- there is a place for the carnal believer (I Cor 3:1ff.) To deny this is to deny the true gospel of Christ. jd From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Amen, Judy. Often we blame the messenger when someone runs away from the church, when the fault lies in the stony heart of the one who wouldnt receive the message. Hopefully they wont wait until Judgment Day to realize that the message to depart from fornication was spoken for their own sakes. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy TaylorSent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 8:24 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Subject: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Well, since I'm being asked for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in the real world having contact with real people...perhaps listen a little more to others and how they live. In my experience with people, including believers by the way, struggle with sin is common. By the way, people are so much more harsh on visible sins such as addictions to alcohol, pornography, drugs etc...whereas I believe Jesus always looked deeper into our hearts and spoke to much that was invisible to many...such as self-righteousness, judgement towards others, jealousies, religious obsession. etc. These are way harder to weed out of our lives than outer behaviours that seem to upset the church so much. I pray that we may see these situations with the heart of God, listening and dealing with others on a very real level which unfortunately is so often tucked away and not talked about enough. We have many hu rting people in our churches who are deeply addicted to many non-christian behaviours...but rather than judge...it may be much better to listen, to learn and to work out the deeper rooted hurts and issues that cause people to lose themselves in the worlds of pornography, alcohol, sexual relationships etc. It is so important to be the kind of Christian that is listening to others with an open attitude and no pre-conceived judgements in mind whether they are in the church or not. A couple of instances pop into my mind right now...one is from last Saturday when I actually popped by my friend's house...co-worker from the bank where I work. As we sipped on coffee, her boyfriend/spouse began to talk about how he used to go to church in England and considers himself a believer in God and Christ but would no longer go to a church anymore because of the questions about h is relationship with my friend and the fact that they were living together. He began to share his hurts about this situation and then we got into one of the best discussions I've ever had on the book of Job. He relates a lot to Job and the judgement his well-meaning friends brought to him during a rough time in his life when they should have been listening and loving him and not judging him. How wonderful at the end of the book when Job not only comes into a deep trust with God but God also invites him to pray for the very friends that incessantly accused him. Great victory there and mu
RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
- Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/12/2006 12:37:10 PM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens And how long do you allow Believers to be babes in Christ, jd? Until the day they die? They will never get delivered if they are continually treated, and fed, like babieson Pablum. Coddling sin results in spineless, wimpy, self-absorbed babies. izzy cd: Izzy- My grandkids love milk but if i don't switch them to meat in time they will die-that is what St.John was speaking of.Christianity is an ongrowing growth religion-If one is static long enought one starts dying. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 11:13 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Like I said before -- there is a place for the carnal believer (I Cor 3:1ff.) To deny this is to deny the true gospel of Christ. jd -- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Amen, Judy. Often we blame the messenger when someone runs away from the church, when the fault lies in the stony heart of the one who wouldnt receive the message. Hopefully they wont wait until Judgment Day to realize that the message to depart from fornication was spoken for their own sakes. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy TaylorSent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 8:24 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Subject: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Well, since I'm being asked for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in the real world having contact with real people...perhaps listen a little more to others and how they live. In my experience with people, including believers by the way, struggle with sin is common. By the way, people are so much more harsh on visible sins such as addictions to alcohol, pornography, drugs etc...whereas I believe Jesus always looked deeper into our hearts and spoke to much that was invisible to many...such as self-righteousness, judgement towards others, jealousies, religious obsession. etc. These are way harder to weed out of our lives than outer behaviours that seem to upset the church so much. I pray that we may see these situations with the heart of God, listening and dealing with others on a very real level which unfortunately is so often tucked away and not talked about enough. We have many hu rting people in our churches who are deeply addicted to many non-christian behaviours...but rather than judge...it may be much better to listen, to learn and to work out the deeper rooted hurts and issues that cause people to lose themselves in the worlds of pornography, alcohol, sexual relationships etc. It is so important to be the kind of Christian that is listening to others with an open attitude and no pre-conceived judgements in mind whether they are in the church or not. A couple of instances pop into my mind right now...one is from last Saturday when I actually popped by my friend's house...co-worker from the bank where I work. As we sipped on coffee, her boyfriend/spouse began to talk about how he used to go to church in England and considers himself a believer in God and Chri st but would no longer go to a church anymore because of the questions about h is relationship with my friend and the fact that they were living together. He began to share his hurts about this situation and then we got into one of the best discussions I've ever had on the book of Job. He relates a lot to Job and the judgement his well-meaning friends brought to him during a rough time in his life when they should have been listening and loving him and not judging him. How wonderful at the end of the book when Job not only comes into a deep trust with God but God also invites him to pray for the very friends that incessantly accused him. Great victory there and much to be learned from that story. What is Joanna saying is learned here and why would one compare openly shacking up publicly while claiming to be a believer with Job's problems? Job's friends were accusing a "righteous man" who Satan had permission to afflict for a season. Their judgment had no basis so it was sinful. OTOH fornicators don't inherit God's Kingdom so why would speaking the truth about Joanna's friend's situation be wrong? It may be offensive to those who are involved with and who like fornicating. The boyfriend continues on the downward spiral of sin. He is presently hanging on to resentment which will eventually result in bitterness which defiles many others Another
Re: [TruthTalk] David Miller 2
cd; Thank you John-been a while since I heard a compliment from you.For your kindness-Do you want to go back to the way we showed each other respect? I'm game-You? - Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/12/2006 12:31:36 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] David Miller 2 "Judge -- More generally, a "judge" may be a qualified person who evaluates and passes judgment on something." I see nothing wrong or poorly advised in using the term "Judge" in association with the way you, Dean, run this forum. Why do you disagree -- if in fact you do not agree? And how can you disagree in view of the following from your computer? cd:I wouldn't expect you to be on any other side Lance.I have requested that Moderator - Judge Moore intervene on this issue Lance.But if you want to speak of fairness why didn't you have to prove you point by calling Kevin names and then later Kevin had to prove his point for calling you a false Prophet?Should I get the Judge Moore to make you prove your point for each one of the names you called Kevin?So stop your crying. Does the above sound familiar, Dean or do I dare say, Judge Dean? jd -- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Note that I noticed the Judge Dean remark- Why are you provoking me to have to deal with this as moderator DaveH? Can you not defend your religion without making this a moderator issue? - Original Message - From: Dave To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/12/2006 1:50:26 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] David Miller 2 the red is much easier to read , for meDAVEH: And therein lies the problem, Bishop. If I make my posts are easier to read, then it is much more likely you will be convinced of my arguments. HenceJudge Dean must think you will soon be converted to Mormonism, and he finds that possibility to be offensive. ;-) BTW.You are close to converting, aren't you Bishop? (There is always room for another Bishop in the Church.) :-) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually, the red is much easier to read , for me. jd -- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cd: David -Why is it not an offence for DaveH to alter my words? I wrote in blue on a 10 scale-if you will read the below my words were altered by DaveH to red and farther down to a size 12 scale-this is an obvious attempt to make me sound harsh while Daveh kept his wording at common black size 10 scale? - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/9/2006 12:33:23 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose -ModeratorcommentADHOM* I called you a Mormon-to which you do not deny-You called me a Christian to wit I did not deny. By doing so you separated the two-and as receiving the first (Mormon) and tagging me with the second(Christian) you have clearly showed yourself to be non ChristianDAVEH: What kind of convoluted logic is that, Judge Dean??? Does any other TTer who understands what Dean said above, agree with his explanation?You DaveH are a Pagan.DAVEH: I respectfully disagree, Judge Dean. To me, your above comment is a blatant ad-hom, and I will request Judge Moore take the appropriate action if you do not wish to apologize.he fact that you do not follow the teaching of Jesus ChristDAVEH: Is that coming from Judge Dean, or Judge Moore?Get over it the truth is not an Ad. Homein attackDAVEH: Really?!?!?!?! Did you just make a new TT rule, Judge Moore? Or was that Judge Dean expressing his unfounded wishes?state a petition to impeach meDAVEH: Seems to me that you are doing a good job of it on your own.I am not Judge DeanDAVEH: Then am I to assume that every time you pass judgment, you are speaking as Judge Moore?by your standards isn't that Ad. Homein attackingDAVEH: ??? I thought we were playing the game by your standards, Judge Dean! Hence.Get over it the truth is not an Ad. Homein attack according to you.I will have to go to the ModeratorDAVEH: I've not had much luck with him, but I suspect he will listen to you. Are you implying Dean called you such NAMES?DAVEH: I'll let Judge Dean answer that, Kevin..I say/demand again " Get the "Church of Jesus Christ" name off your temple Pagan!!! cd: Hey- that is Judge Moore to you buddy. You are the one that put a separation between Christianity and Mormonism-in you comment -and when I declare that by doing so this is Paganism you state crying . My Comment: Is it the Mormon in you doing such-or are you just plain mean? Your reply:So let me ask you, Dean..Is it the Christian in you doing such-or are you just plain mean? I called you a Mormon-to which you do not deny-You called me a Christian to wit I di
Re: [TruthTalk] Is a Mormon a Christian?
cd: And what authority did he give me John-You act as if you have knowledge on the subject- What is my Job as Moderator? You have not only put DM on notice, but you have chosen to ursurp the very authority he has give to you !! Remarkable. jd -- Original message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] won't it be v interesting if DaveH gets it, Bro? On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 17:37:14 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You are safe, with this, G. I and probably Lance will be the only ones who get !! For the record, I completely disagree with this characterization -- but it is funny. jd -- Original message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 05:57:23 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: DH -- ..How long have you known Deegan and Moore and how much closer to convertin are you now -- after hearing them "preach" ..[law] these many years? jd ||
Re: [TruthTalk] Is a Mormon a Christian?
cd: If it is a private conversation them why put it on a public site for all to respond-If it is private then sent it in private or expect to receive the response-duh. - Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/12/2006 12:16:49 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is a Mormon a Christian? I was having a conversation with DH, Dean... you know, similar to your discussion with David in which you speak of "Satan's messengers." My point (?) is obvious, I think. jd - Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: Dave Sent: 3/12/2006 12:57:24 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is a Mormon a Christian? DH -- it's time we stop meeting this way. You over there with your dialogue with Kevin and me with whoever will listen. two old farts fighting nappy time !! How long have you known Deegan and Moore and how much closer to convertin are you now -- after hearing them "preach" for low these many years? jd cd: Careful John- Was Christ's giving the wrong mesasage in not converting Judas who as in his mists for three years- We see many Mormon conversion in SLC. Satan has also been around the gospel for an awful long time-and can also quote scripture.What was your Point again? -- Original message -- From: Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Do you see Jesus & Paul using your Dictionary definition of Christian?DAVEH: Some time ago, it was me (LDS in general) being accused by TTers of changing definitions to suit our (LDS) needs. Now it seems you want to do the same thing, Kevin. If you don't want to use the conventional dictionary definition of Christian, then it seems prudent to give us (TTers) your own definitionplease.Kevin Deegan wrote: Do you see Jesus & Paul using your Dictionary definition of Christian?Under this definition then, a decieved one who follows ANTI Christ is truly a Christian!1) He truly Believes he is worshipping Jesus Christ2) He truly believes the one he is following was sent by God3) He follows his teachings and exampleBut in reality he is a hell bound sinner.Help me contextualize, this apparent contradictionDavid Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Judy wrote:> What reason would anyone on TT have> to assume that a lifelong Mormon is also> a Christian?Following is how my dictionary defines a Christian:Chris·tiannoun (plural Chris·tians)1. believer in Jesus Christ as savior: somebody who believes that Jesus Christ was sent to the world by God to save humanity, and who tries to follow his teachings and exampleIf we accept the secular definition of believer as somebody who believes in the teachings of a particular religious faith, then from my perspective , Mormonism falls into this category of Christian. This does not mean that they have the right belief system, or that any of them will be saved. It simply places them in the Christian category, as a religious sect that is centered on the idea that Jesus Christ is the Savior sent by God to save humanity. There are false sects within Christianity, and I think the Mor mon sects are among them.David Miller.-- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
RE: [TruthTalk] Judge Dean/ Pagan Dave
- Original Message - From: Dave To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/12/2006 10:54:50 AM Subject: [TruthTalk] Judge Dean Why are you provoking me to have to deal with this as moderator DaveH?DAVEH: I use the Judge Dean/Moore monikers to remind TTers (including myself) to whom I speaking. It was not long ago that you mentioned that I have a problem distinguishing TTer Dean from the moderator, and then you referred to yourself as Judge Moore, if I remember correctly. Since it appears to me that you are judgmental from both positions, I've found it expedient to use both terms when referring to you in order to assist in remembering to which Dean I'm speaking. cd: Huh? Do you mean that you are really trying to remember which name is proper to use Pagan Dave? Honest? Why do you consider this to be a provocation? Do you not pass judgment as both a moderator (e.g. when you excommunicated the Bishop) and as a regular TTer, such as when you call me a pagan? OrWere you making the pagan judgment while you were wearing the moderator's cap? cd: Wasn't you the one that brought up the fact that this wasn't a church not long past?How then can one be excommunicated from a site? No, when I put on that cap it gets serious.Can you not defend your religion without making this a moderator issue?DAVEH: You made it a moderator issue when you suggested that I could not separate Dean from the moderator. I assume you would agree with methat Dean does make judgments? If so, then why would you find the term a problem, since it describes you appropriately? Furthermore, did you not suggest that saying the truth is not an ad-homif so, then referring to you as Judge Dean seems not only appropriate, but neither should it be offensive. If I am wrong about this, have Judge Moore reprimand me.right after he reprimands Judge Dean for calling me a pagan. cd: But ,Pagan Dave I am proving/have proved that you are not a Christian and are in fact a Pagan(wolf in sheep clothing). You have yet to prove that I am not Judge Moore and show I am indeed Judge Dean-or be guilty of Ad. Hom and face the full intent of the law-I would get to work if I were you. Time is shorter then you think.?Dean Moore wrote: Note that I noticed the Judge Dean remark- Why are you provoking me to have to deal with this as moderator DaveH? Can you not defend your religion without making this a moderator issue? - Original Message - From: Dave To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/12/2006 1:50:26 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] David Miller 2 the red is much easier to read , for meDAVEH: And therein lies the problem, Bishop. If I make my posts are easier to read, then it is much more likely you will be convinced of my arguments. HenceJudge Dean must think you will soon be converted to Mormonism, and he finds that possibility to be offensive. ;-) BTW.You are close to converting, aren't you Bishop? (There is always room for another Bishop in the Church.) :-) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually, the red is much easier to read , for me. jd -- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cd: David -Why is it not an offence for DaveH to alter my words? I wrote in blue on a 10 scale-if you will read the below my words were altered by DaveH to red and farther down to a size 12 scale-this is an obvious attempt to make me sound harsh while Daveh kept his wording at common black size 10 scale? - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/9/2006 12:33:23 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose -ModeratorcommentADHOM* I called you a Mormon-to which you do not deny-You called me a Christian to wit I did not deny. By doing so you separated the two-and as receiving the first (Mormon) and tagging me with the second(Christian) you have clearly showed yourself to be non ChristianDAVEH: What kind of convoluted logic is that, Judge Dean??? Does any other TTer who understands what Dean said above, agree with his explanation?You DaveH are a Pagan.DAVEH: I respectfully disagree, Judge Dean. To me, your above comment is a blatant ad-hom, and I will request Judge Moore take the appropriate action if you do not wish to apologize.he fact that you do not follow the teaching of Jesus ChristDAVEH: Is that coming from Judge Dean, or Judge Moore?Get over it the truth is not an Ad. Homein attackDAVEH: Really?!?!?!?! Did you just make a new TT rule, Judge Moore? Or was that Judge Dean expressing his unfounded wishes?state a petition to impeach meDAVEH: Seems to me that you are doing a good job of it on your own.I am not Judge DeanDAVEH: Then am I to assume that every time you pass judgment, you are speaking as Judge Moore?by your standards isn't that Ad. Homein attackingDAVEH: ??? I thought we were playing the game by
Re: [TruthTalk] Is a Mormon a Christian?
cd: Perry confirmed that you probably believed what you wrote-saw a hint of mockers with the pray acceptance-and stated that you more then likely misunderstood what type of prayer we would make for you. But he has no way of knowing about conversions in SLC. Ask yourself this- why would a person the pushes the commandments that put his life on the line gain due to belief in the one who wrote the commandments gain from lying about a group of pagans? - Original Message - From: Dave To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/12/2006 11:53:25 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is a Mormon a Christian? We see many Mormon conversion in SLC.DAVEH: As was recently asked of you..Perry do you think Judge Dean is speaking the truth here? Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is a Mormon a Christian? DH -- it's time we stop meeting this way. You over there with your dialogue with Kevin and me with whoever will listen. two old farts fighting nappy time !! How long have you known Deegan and Moore and how much closer to convertin are you now -- after hearing them "preach" for low these many years? jd cd: Careful John- Was Christ's giving the wrong mesasage in not converting Judas who as in his mists for three years- We see many Mormon conversion in SLC. Satan has also been around the gospel for an awful long time-and can also quote scripture.What was your Point again? -- Original message -- From: Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Do you see Jesus & Paul using your Dictionary definition of Christian?DAVEH: Some time ago, it was me (LDS in general) being accused by TTers of changing definitions to suit our (LDS) needs. Now it seems you want to do the same thing, Kevin. If you don't want to use the conventional dictionary definition of Christian, then it seems prudent to give us (TTers) your own definitionplease.Kevin Deegan wrote: Do you see Jesus & Paul using your Dictionary definition of Christian?Under this definition then, a decieved one who follows ANTI Christ is truly a Christian!1) He truly Believes he is worshipping Jesus Christ2) He truly believes the one he is following was sent by God3) He follows his teachings and exampleBut in reality he is a hell bound sinner.Help me contextualize, this apparent contradictionDavid Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Judy wrote:> What reason would anyone on TT have> to assume that a lifelong Mormon is also> a Christian?Following is how my dictionary defines a Christian:Chris·tiannoun (plural Chris·tians)1. believer in Jesus Christ as savior: somebody who believes that Jesus Christ was sent to the world by God to save humanity, and who tries to follow his teachings and exampleIf we accept the secular definition of believer as somebody who believes in the teachings of a particular religious faith, then from my perspective , Mormonism falls into this category of Christian. This does not mean that they have the right belief system, or that any of them will be saved. It simply places them in the Christian category, as a religious sect that is centered on the idea that Jesus Christ is the Savior sent by God to save humanity. There are false sects within Christianity, and I think the Mor mon sects are among them.David Miller.-- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
RE: [TruthTalk] Conversation with Major Tom Tuppenney - Salvation Army
cd; Merely a test to show if the teaching of others agree with the words of the Bible and to allow others to take a given passage and explain it in leu of their beliefs. I have found that most cults cannot explain many passages in the Bible. For example your group cannot explain: m 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. Jam 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. Jam 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. Jam 2:13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath showed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment. Jam 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? Jam 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, Jam 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Jam 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Jam 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works. Jam 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. Jam 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Jam 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Jam 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? Jam 2:23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Jam 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Jam 2:25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? Jam 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. - Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/11/2006 7:40:40 PM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Conversation with Major Tom Tuppenney - Salvation Army What is this Bible test, Dean? Your only victory against the "dancing brotherhood" is the one you have declared to be such. If I am wrong on this, refresh our memories as to the victory(ies) you have secured. I guess I missed it somewhere. Thanks for you help, in advance. jd -- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cd; Why can't this so-called Bible expert come and speak for himself so we can see if his words stand the Bible test-So far the dancing brotherhood have fallen way short-To dizzy from all the dancing around passages in the Bible to get a solid footing on truth. - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/11/2006 12:32:51 PM Subject: [TruthTalk] Conversation with Major Tom Tuppenney - Salvation Army Director Harbor Light Mission Toronto - 10 years Director Harbor Light Mission Detroit - 5 years We discussed the responses I received on TT. He was outraged at the burden you'd lay on believers as a result of a theology absent grace. In addition to that which was previously spoken of, he wondered whether any of you have friends with psychological disorders? Does one suggest: read the bible more, pray harder, take the truth more seriously, stop believing the lies of the evil one...fill in the blank. My goodness! ..if y'all have simple, doable, quick solutions for believers vis a vis sin so that those persons my friend is 'wasting his time and money and counselling on' then, I'll send him along to see you or better, I'll have him offer you a position at a soon to be ex-addiction center.
RE: [TruthTalk] Mormons in Heaven
cd: One must try and keep one humor because the truth is a sad fact:-( :-) - Original Message - From: Dave To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/12/2006 10:58:13 AM Subject: [TruthTalk] Mormons in Heaven DAVEH: LOL.At least you have maintained your sense of humor, Judge Dean! :-D Dean Moore wrote: cd: If you find yourself in the afterlife surrounded by Mormons and smell of sulfur in the air -then you are not in Heaven-and the glow is not the sun setting;-) - Original Message - From: Dave To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/12/2006 1:36:42 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Astrology-Miller I am a surprised, I must admit, to hearing of Dean's admission that he thinks of this forum as some sort of mission opportunity for the SP ing crowd. DAVEH: That has always been the intention of some. That it conflicts in part with the reasons DavidM established TT seems to go over the head of many. I'm sure DavidM would hope some evangelistic successes be achieved here, but I never had the impression that was his prime concern. If I'm wrong with that assessment, I hope he posts a clarification.I kind of feel like I died and went to heaven !!DAVEH: LOL..When that day does arrive, perhaps you'll find more Mormons there than some might expect! :-) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is quite clear that the presense of the Mormon population on TT has nothing to do with the current problems of TT. I am a surprised, I must admit, to hearing of Dean's admission that he thinks of this forum as some sort of mission opportunity for the SP ing crowd. This reminds me of a joke a baptist brother told me about the Church of Christ in heaven. I won't bore you with full joke, but the punch line was "Not so loud - they think they're the only ones up here." Being here on TT - I kind of feel like I died and went to heaven !! jd-- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
RE: [TruthTalk] Astrology
Kevin did you note the referral to Christians and double standards by Dave in the Below. He clearly shows that he does not consider himself a Christian-Strange that members on this site would refer the him as such-and insist that he is one-while his words prove otherwise.Strange indeed. - Original Message - From: Dave To: TruthTalk Sent: 3/12/2006 2:27:54 AM Subject: [TruthTalk] Astrology Astrology. What do you think of such?DAVEH: I do not subscribe to it, nor do I find it of much interest. However KevinI think Blaine tried to show that Christianity has some roots in it. So if one wants to criticize Blaine for his beliefs about astrology, is that same person willing to criticize Christianity for having astrologically related beliefs? And if you think Blaine is a pagan because of his astrology related beliefs, then do you believe a Christian is also pagan because he believes in some of the pagan rooted elements of the Bible? Now before you go to great lengths to involve me in an astrology thread, I am not a supporter of the topic. You should engage Blaine if you want to discuss it further, as I neither want to appear to support astrology, nor do I want to speak for Blaine. I'm just pointing out the double standard issue that Christians have to face when denouncing astrology. I'l l copy this to Blaine in case he wants to respond to this threadwhich I will change to reflect the new direction this discussion is taking. Blaine has posted a number of times refering to Astrology. What do you think of such? PA'GAN, n. [L. paganus, a peasant or countryman, from pagus, a village.] A heathen; a Gentile; an idolater; one who worships false gods. This word was originally applied to the inhabitants of the country, who on the first propagation of the christian religion adhered to the worship of false gods, or refused to receive christianity, after it had been received by the inhabitants of the cities. In like manner, heathen signifies an inhabitant of the heath or woods, and caffer, in Arabic, signifies the inhabitant of a hut or cottage, and one that does not receive the religion of Mohammed. Pagan is used to distinguish one from a Christian and a Mohammedan. PA'GAN, a. Heathen; heathenish; Gentile; noting a person who worships false gods. 1. Pertaining to the worship of false gods.Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: OK let me chime in I will restate it for Dean DH's BELIEFS are Pagan!DAVEH: OK Kevinspecifically in what way do draw that conclusion? What is it that you think I believe that qualifies as a pagan belief? First, you may want to define what you think pagan means so we will have a common starting point.Kevin Deegan wrote: "You .. are a pagan" is not the same as "Your beliefs are pagan" For the sake of Lance (IYO) OK let me chime in I will restate it for Dean DH's BELIEFS are Pagan! So does the BIBLE practice ADHOMS? AND name names! Sop let me get this straight Paul should NOT have said: Acts 13 Elymas the sorcerer ... PAUL SAYS: And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord? SHOULD BE And said, O full of all subtilty beliefs and all beliefs of mischief, thou child with beliefs of the devil, thou believing against all righteousness, wilt thou not cease believing to pervert the right ways of the Lord? (what VERSION would this be? ) Since Paul was FU LL of the Holy Ghost (IMO VS 9) when he said this does that mean God called Elymas A DEVIL? Is God ADHOM? Did God call him a PERVERT? Just wonderin...[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You DaveH are a Pagan.DAVEH: I respectfully disagree, Judge Dean. To me, your above comment is a blatant ad-hom Why is attacking your genuinely held beliefs an attack on your person? Seriously; can you expound? KD DH can make the point but let me chime in here, as well. "You .. are a pagan" is not the same as "Your beliefs are pagan>" Those who have eyes, let them see, Lord. jd -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> You DaveH are a Pagan.DAVEH: ; I respectfully disagree, Judge Dean. To me, your above comment is a blatant ad-hom Why is attacking your genuinely held beliefs an attack on your person? Seriously; can you expound? Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I called you a Mormon-to which you do not deny-You called me a Christian to wit I did not deny. By doing so you separated the two-and as receiving the first (Mormon) and tagging me with the second(Christian) you have clearly showed yourself to be non ChristianDAVEH: What kind of convoluted logic is that, Judge Dean??? Does any other TTer who understands what Dean said above, agree with his explanation?You DaveH are a Pagan.DAVEH: I respectfully disagree, Judge Dean. To me, your above comment is a blatant ad-hom, and I will request Judge Moore t
RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
cd: Won't you know it-After all that the printer is on the fritz-its the goverments fault too-All those lady Bugs they have dropped out of airplanes have gotten into my printer and gummed it up.Hey I think I just fixed it-maybe-maybe not-nern planes. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/12/2006 8:54:21 AM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Lance, from the small piece below Id say Joanna has a heart of gold. I agree that rushing to judgment is one way to chase unbelievers away, and is not what Jesus did except with those who were religious hypocrites. First one must love and befriend, as she obviously does. But, as I told JD, we must also speak truth if we are to be ambassadors of Christ, just as Jesus did. He loved, He befriended, but He never hesitated to call sin a sin because He loved those He befriended enough to want to lead them to freedom from sin, as that is what ultimately will destroy our relationship with Him. That was His entire objective in dying on the cross, of course. Tough love is much harder for us to give than soft love. Tough love isnt harsh and angry; it is just the kind of love that pulls people towards the truth, even when it is tempting to gloss over the hard issues. Sin is the ele phant in the room; do we love people so much that we pretend it isnt there, or do we really love them enough to address the obvious? The fleshly Believer takes the easy path of just loving and being loved, while the Spirit-filled Believer uses the truths of the Word to deliver the captives from sin as well as unbelief. Like being a parent, a Christian mentor always holds up the goal and then walks with you towards it. Poor parents are those who give love, love, love, and never balance that with self-discipline and hard workthe children are ruined for life by their own selfishness and laziness. Jesus defined our goal as His disciples: Luke 5: 32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. That, of course, is the issue I continually have with those of the liberal Christian persuasionthey have no fear of sin, for themselves or others. They dont realize that sin is what truly ails us. This is a hollow gospel that allows many to die in their sins. Izzy John 8:21 Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 12:05 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Well, since I'm being asked for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in the real world having contact with real people...perhaps listen a little more to others and how they live. In my experience with people, including believers by the way, struggle with sin is common. By the way, people are so much more harsh on visible sins such as addictions to alcohol, pornography, drugs etc...whereas I believe Jesus always looked deeper into our hearts and spoke to much that was invisible to many...such as self-righteousness, judgement towards others, jealousies, religious obsession. etc. These are way harder to weed out of our lives than outer behaviours that seem to upset the church so much. I pray that we may see these situations with the heart of God, listening and dealing with others on a very real level which unfortunately is so often tucked away and not talked about enough. We have many hu rting people in our churches who are deeply addicted to many non-christian behaviours...but rather than judge...it may be much better to listen, to learn and to work out the deeper rooted hurts and issues that cause people to lose themselves in the worlds of pornography, alcohol, sexual relationships etc. It is so important to be the kind of Christian that is listening to others with an open attitude and no pre-conceived judgements in mind whether they are in the church or not. A couple of instances pop into my mind right now...one is from last Saturday when I actually popped by my friend's house...co-worker from the bank where I work. As we sipped on coffee, her boyfriend/spouse began to talk about how he used to go to church in England and considers himself a believer in God and Christ but would no longer go to a church anymore because of the questions about his relationship with my friend and the fa ct that they were living together. He began to share his hurts about this situation and then we got into one of the best discussions I've ever had on the book of Job. He relates a lot to Job and the judgement his well-meaning friends brought to him during a rough time in his life when they should have been listening and loving him and not judging him. How wonderful at the end of the book when Job not only come
RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
cd: Izzy the beauty in your words reflect the beauty of your heart.I am printing this for my wife to read-I haven't done this in a couple of years-but she does read some of our responses on-line. Thank you for this.I hope I can live up to it-Pray for me sister. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/12/2006 8:54:21 AM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Lance, from the small piece below Id say Joanna has a heart of gold. I agree that rushing to judgment is one way to chase unbelievers away, and is not what Jesus did except with those who were religious hypocrites. First one must love and befriend, as she obviously does. But, as I told JD, we must also speak truth if we are to be ambassadors of Christ, just as Jesus did. He loved, He befriended, but He never hesitated to call sin a sin because He loved those He befriended enough to want to lead them to freedom from sin, as that is what ultimately will destroy our relationship with Him. That was His entire objective in dying on the cross, of course. Tough love is much harder for us to give than soft love. Tough love isnt harsh and angry; it is just the kind of love that pulls people towards the truth, even when it is tempting to gloss over the hard issues. Sin is the ele phant in the room; do we love people so much that we pretend it isnt there, or do we really love them enough to address the obvious? The fleshly Believer takes the easy path of just loving and being loved, while the Spirit-filled Believer uses the truths of the Word to deliver the captives from sin as well as unbelief. Like being a parent, a Christian mentor always holds up the goal and then walks with you towards it. Poor parents are those who give love, love, love, and never balance that with self-discipline and hard workthe children are ruined for life by their own selfishness and laziness. Jesus defined our goal as His disciples: Luke 5: 32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. That, of course, is the issue I continually have with those of the liberal Christian persuasionthey have no fear of sin, for themselves or others. They dont realize that sin is what truly ails us. This is a hollow gospel that allows many to die in their sins. Izzy John 8:21 Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 12:05 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Well, since I'm being asked for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in the real world having contact with real people...perhaps listen a little more to others and how they live. In my experience with people, including believers by the way, struggle with sin is common. By the way, people are so much more harsh on visible sins such as addictions to alcohol, pornography, drugs etc...whereas I believe Jesus always looked deeper into our hearts and spoke to much that was invisible to many...such as self-righteousness, judgement towards others, jealousies, religious obsession. etc. These are way harder to weed out of our lives than outer behaviours that seem to upset the church so much. I pray that we may see these situations with the heart of God, listening and dealing with others on a very real level which unfortunately is so often tucked away and not talked about enough. We have many hu rting people in our churches who are deeply addicted to many non-christian behaviours...but rather than judge...it may be much better to listen, to learn and to work out the deeper rooted hurts and issues that cause people to lose themselves in the worlds of pornography, alcohol, sexual relationships etc. It is so important to be the kind of Christian that is listening to others with an open attitude and no pre-conceived judgements in mind whether they are in the church or not. A couple of instances pop into my mind right now...one is from last Saturday when I actually popped by my friend's house...co-worker from the bank where I work. As we sipped on coffee, her boyfriend/spouse began to talk about how he used to go to church in England and considers himself a believer in God and Christ but would no longer go to a church anymore because of the questions about his relationship with my friend and the fa ct that they were living together. He began to share his hurts about this situation and then we got into one of the best discussions I've ever had on the book of Job. He relates a lot to Job and the judgement his well-meaning friends brought to him during a rough time in his life when they should have been listening and loving him and not judging him. How wonderful at the end of the book when Job no
Re: [TruthTalk] David Miller 2
Note that I noticed the Judge Dean remark- Why are you provoking me to have to deal with this as moderator DaveH? Can you not defend your religion without making this a moderator issue? - Original Message - From: Dave To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/12/2006 1:50:26 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] David Miller 2 the red is much easier to read , for meDAVEH: And therein lies the problem, Bishop. If I make my posts are easier to read, then it is much more likely you will be convinced of my arguments. HenceJudge Dean must think you will soon be converted to Mormonism, and he finds that possibility to be offensive. ;-) BTW.You are close to converting, aren't you Bishop? (There is always room for another Bishop in the Church.) :-) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually, the red is much easier to read , for me. jd -- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cd: David -Why is it not an offence for DaveH to alter my words? I wrote in blue on a 10 scale-if you will read the below my words were altered by DaveH to red and farther down to a size 12 scale-this is an obvious attempt to make me sound harsh while Daveh kept his wording at common black size 10 scale? - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/9/2006 12:33:23 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose -ModeratorcommentADHOM* I called you a Mormon-to which you do not deny-You called me a Christian to wit I did not deny. By doing so you separated the two-and as receiving the first (Mormon) and tagging me with the second(Christian) you have clearly showed yourself to be non ChristianDAVEH: What kind of convoluted logic is that, Judge Dean??? Does any other TTer who understands what Dean said above, agree with his explanation?You DaveH are a Pagan.DAVEH: I respectfully disagree, Judge Dean. To me, your above comment is a blatant ad-hom, and I will request Judge Moore take the appropriate action if you do not wish to apologize.he fact that you do not follow the teaching of Jesus ChristDAVEH: Is that coming from Judge Dean, or Judge Moore?Get over it the truth is not an Ad. Homein attackDAVEH: Really?!?!?!?! Did you just make a new TT rule, Judge Moore? Or was that Judge Dean expressing his unfounded wishes?state a petition to impeach meDAVEH: Seems to me that you are doing a good job of it on your own.I am not Judge DeanDAVEH: Then am I to assume that every time you pass judgment, you are speaking as Judge Moore?by your standards isn't that Ad. Homein attackingDAVEH: ??? I thought we were playing the game by your standards, Judge Dean! Hence.Get over it the truth is not an Ad. Homein attack according to you.I will have to go to the ModeratorDAVEH: I've not had much luck with him, but I suspect he will listen to you. Are you implying Dean called you such NAMES?DAVEH: I'll let Judge Dean answer that, Kevin..I say/demand again " Get the "Church of Jesus Christ" name off your temple Pagan!!! cd: Hey- that is Judge Moore to you buddy. You are the one that put a separation between Christianity and Mormonism-in you comment -and when I declare that by doing so this is Paganism you state crying . My Comment: Is it the Mormon in you doing such-or are you just plain mean? Your reply:So let me ask you, Dean..Is it the Christian in you doing such-or are you just plain mean? I called you a Mormon-to which you do not deny-You called me a Christian to wit I did not deny. By doing so you separated the two-and as receiving the first (Mormon) and tagging me with the second(Christian) you have clearly showed yourself to be non Christian-To be non-Christian is to be a Pagan. You DaveH are a Pagan.The fact that you do not follow the teaching of Jesus Christ is a deeper conformation of that point. Get over it the truth is not an Ad. Homein attack- or state a petition to impeach me.I am not Judge Dean -by your standards isn't that Ad. Homein attacking-better stop or I will have to go to the Moderator.Hey -Judge Moore Moderate this!Kevin Deegan wrote: Are you implying Dean called you such NAMES?Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Dave why are you trying to fuel dissection between the groups?DAVEH: Hwell, I hadn't thought about dissecting you guys, but it is a tempting thought you've given me! ;-) Is it the Mormon in you doing such-or are you just plain mean?DAVEH: LOL..Sometimes I think SPers are their own worst enemy! You have the power to push the button that bars me from TT, Dean. If you do such, I don't think your problems will all go with me. I've been called a pagan here, a snake in the grass, satan's messenger boyand I've been falsely accused of condoning violence against SPers. So let me ask you, Dean..Is it the Ch
RE: [TruthTalk] Believers in bondage to sin?
Sound like a big mushy religion to me Izzy. sorta like: "You poor sinner-I know you cannot help but to do so-God will understand that we all sin and be kind to us anyway-so don't worry". But it does make one wonder what all the screaming in hell is about huh? - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/12/2006 7:33:21 AM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Believers in bondage to sin? Therein lies the test, doesnt it? How many years do you tell him he has to develop the faith to do this? Is Osama bin Laden also redeemed from his sins; just waiting to grow? How do you tell the saved from the unsaved? Iz Matt 7: 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 7:14 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Believers in bondage to sin? He has been redeemed from his sins, even before he has ceased his addiction. That is not a lie, Linda - that is the story of the gospel !! The lie is to be found in the teaching that he is not saved until and unless he grows strong enough to defeat his addiction. jd -- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> The first step in deliverance is telling yourself the truth. Telling an addict a lie (such as below) just leaves him addicted. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Now that I have my proof-texting urge nurtured, let me say this an addicted believer is not in bondage to sin !!!
Re: [TruthTalk] Astrology-Miller
cd: If you find yourself in the afterlife surrounded by Mormons and smell of sulfur in the air -then you are not in Heaven-and the glow is not the sun setting;-) - Original Message - From: Dave To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/12/2006 1:36:42 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Astrology-Miller I am a surprised, I must admit, to hearing of Dean's admission that he thinks of this forum as some sort of mission opportunity for the SP ing crowd. DAVEH: That has always been the intention of some. That it conflicts in part with the reasons DavidM established TT seems to go over the head of many. I'm sure DavidM would hope some evangelistic successes be achieved here, but I never had the impression that was his prime concern. If I'm wrong with that assessment, I hope he posts a clarification.I kind of feel like I died and went to heaven !!DAVEH: LOL..When that day does arrive, perhaps you'll find more Mormons there than some might expect! :-) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is quite clear that the presense of the Mormon population on TT has nothing to do with the current problems of TT. I am a surprised, I must admit, to hearing of Dean's admission that he thinks of this forum as some sort of mission opportunity for the SP ing crowd. This reminds me of a joke a baptist brother told me about the Church of Christ in heaven. I won't bore you with full joke, but the punch line was "Not so loud - they think they're the only ones up here." Being here on TT - I kind of feel like I died and went to heaven !! jd -- Original message -- From: Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> the sad part is that one claiming to be a Christian (Blain/ DavH)has lead the believer to this error.DAVEH: Which believer on TT do you think either of us (LDS) has led astray, Judge Dean?if the Mormons were allowed to dwell among ChristiansDAVEH: And your solution is.to not allow Mormons on TT?God's spirit knew and gave this ProphecyDAVEH: To whom did he give this Prophec y, Judge Dean? DavidM is the only self pr oclaimed prophet on TT of who I am aware. I do not recall him suggesting that God gave him this Prophecy, so do you know of other prophets on TT? Who receive said this Prophecy?more souls must be harmed before a change is made.DAVEH: Which TTers have been harmed, and what change do you propose?This is going to get real personal-real soonDAVEH: It seems to me that you opened that door, Judge Dean. Do you not think calling me a pagan made it real personal??? Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Astrology-Miller Maybe that is why we are not to go to the World for answers. The dictionary is not the discerner of who/what is a Christian. The World has no answers. All the soothsayers at Jackson Square were made an open show open shame for all to see. They know not at what they stumble! Just more FALSE PROPHETS, I agree it is a serious matter.' cd : Yeah and the sad part is that one claiming to be a Christian (Blain/ DavH)has lead the believer to this error. This act of leadership by a Mormon doesn't get more Pagan than this -no small wonder the evil spirit behind the Mormon's wouldn't want to be identified as such-It can cause more harm if it appears as an Angle of light. Reminds me of the first time I can on this site and warned David that this event would happen if the Mormons were allowed to dwell among Christians without a clear understanding of what they are-and was ignored-this was before I even knew what a Mormon was and only preached at intersections-but God's spirit knew and gave this Prophecy.It seems that history must repeat itself and more souls must be harmed before a change is made.Question for you Kevin: Is a Pagan by any other name still a Pagan? And my brother in Christ-This i s going to get real personal-real soon. Dean Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/10/2006 7:33:15 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Kinder Gentler God would not call names - pagan ? Blaine has posted a number of times refering to Astrology.. What do you think of such? cd: It goes much deeper than that Bro. Kevin-David Miller was actually having Blaine do readings for Him-gave him his birth dated and even comment on how actuate the reading were-have you ever heard of the likes from a man of God? No different then what we saw in front of the Catholic off Bourbon street remember? Seems that some believers won't request God's prediction on the future or even ask Him they have to inquire of spirits.Here is God's take on the matter. Isa 47:13 Thou art wearied in the multitude of thy counsels. Let now the astrologers, the stargazers, the monthly prognosticators, stand up, and save thee from these things that shall come upon thee. Isa 47:14 Behold, they shall be as stubble; the fire sha
[TruthTalk] Perry
Perry do you think DavH is speaking the truth here? - Original Message - From: Dave To: TruthTalk Sent: 3/12/2006 1:29:30 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is a Mormon a Christian? with whoever will listenDAVEH: LOLDo you suppose anybody is really listening, Bishop! :-) How long have you known Deegan and Moore DAVEH: I joined TT less than a year after DavidM founded it. I think it was a year or two later that Carroll joined, but I could be off on that. Kevin came in a bit later, as I remember.how much closer to converting are you now -- after hearing them "preach" for low these many yearsDAVEH: I think I am right on the edge. ;-) Seriously John, I made the statement when I came in to TT that I was LDS and did not join TT with the intention to be persuaded to leave Mormonism. I wanted everybody to know up front that not hear to play that game with them--that I'm interested in pursuing another religio n. I have made my position clear several times, but despite doing so some TTers feel compelled to try to convert me away from Mormonism anyway. Apparently some have gotten their noses bent out of shape when they find out that I do not want to subscribe to their theory that LDS theology is wrong. I think DavidM understood me loud and clear after our initial discussions. Others are not nearly so perceptive, and seem to get frustrated that their illogical tactics fail to persuade me to change. What some have said is that they pray for me. I am sincere in telling you I do appreciate that, as I am sure they pray for my eternal welfare, and I do not take that lightly. Contrary to what I'm sure they expect, I do believe that (the answer to) their prayers are one reason I feel no compulsion to change. In fact, I believe their prayers have been answered to the contrary. Despite there being many unflattering things posted about LDS theology and myself, I remain quite comfortable in my LDS rooted beliefs of Jesus and his Father in Heaven. While this may rankle some, I feel that I should attribute that at least in part to the prayers of some TTers! Soif you've prayed for meI sincerely THANK YOU. It reinforces my belief in the power of prayer.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: DH -- it's time we stop meeting this way. You over there with your dialogue with Kevin and me with whoever will listen. two old farts fighting nappy time !! How long have you known Deegan and Moore and how much closer to convertin are you now -- after hearing them "preach" for low these many years? jd -- Original message -- From: Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Do you see Jesus & Paul using your Dictionary definition of Christian?DAVEH: Some time ago, it was me (LDS in general) being accused by TTers of changing definitions to suit our (LDS) needs. Now it seems you want to do the same thing, Kevin. If you don't want to use the conventional dictionary definition of Christian, then it seems prudent to give us (TTers) your own definitionplease.Kevin Deegan wrote: Do you see Jesus & Paul using your Dictionary definition of Christian?Under this definition then, a decieved one who follows ANTI Christ is truly a Christian!1) He truly Believes he is worshipping Jesus Christ2) He truly believes the one he is following was sent by God3) He follows his teachings and exampleBut in reality he is a hell bound sinner.Help me contextualize, this apparent contradictionDavid Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Judy wrote:> What reason would anyone on TT have> to assume that a lifelong Mormon is also> a Christian?Following is how my dictionary defines a Christian:Chris·tiannoun (plural Chris·tians)1. believer in Jesus Christ as savior: somebody who believes that Jesus Christ was sent to the world by God to save humanity, and who tries to follow his teachings and exampleIf we accept the secular definition of believer as somebody who believes in the teachings of a particular religious faith, then from my perspective , Mormonism falls into this category of Christian. This does not mean that they have the right belief system, or that any of them will be saved. It simply places them in the Christian category, as a religious sect that is centered on the idea that Jesus Christ is the Savior sent by God to save humanity. There are false sects within Christianity, and I think the Mor mon sects are among them.David Miller.-- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
Re: [TruthTalk] Is a Mormon a Christian?
- Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: Dave Sent: 3/12/2006 12:57:24 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is a Mormon a Christian? DH -- it's time we stop meeting this way. You over there with your dialogue with Kevin and me with whoever will listen. two old farts fighting nappy time !! How long have you known Deegan and Moore and how much closer to convertin are you now -- after hearing them "preach" for low these many years? jd cd: Careful John- Was Christ's giving the wrong mesasage in not converting Judas who as in his mists for three years- We see many Mormon conversion in SLC. Satan has also been around the gospel for an awful long time-and can also quote scripture.What was your Point again? -- Original message -- From: Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Do you see Jesus & Paul using your Dictionary definition of Christian?DAVEH: Some time ago, it was me (LDS in general) being accused by TTers of changing definitions to suit our (LDS) needs. Now it seems you want to do the same thing, Kevin. If you don't want to use the conventional dictionary definition of Christian, then it seems prudent to give us (TTers) your own definitionplease.Kevin Deegan wrote: Do you see Jesus & Paul using your Dictionary definition of Christian?Under this definition then, a decieved one who follows ANTI Christ is truly a Christian!1) He truly Believes he is worshipping Jesus Christ2) He truly believes the one he is following was sent by God3) He follows his teachings and exampleBut in reality he is a hell bound sinner.Help me contextualize, this apparent contradictionDavid Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Judy wrote:> What reason would anyone on TT have> to assume that a lifelong Mormon is also> a Christian?Following is how my dictionary defines a Christian:Chris·tiannoun (plural Chris·tians)1. believer in Jesus Christ as savior: somebody who believes that Jesus Christ was sent to the world by God to save humanity, and who tries to follow his teachings and exampleIf we accept the secular definition of believer as somebody who believes in the teachings of a particular religious faith, then from my perspective , Mormonism falls into this category of Christian. This does not mean that they have the right belief system, or that any of them will be saved. It simply places them in the Christian category, as a religious sect that is centered on the idea that Jesus Christ is the Savior sent by God to save humanity. There are false sects within Christianity, and I think the Mor mon sects are among them.David Miller.-- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
Re: [TruthTalk] Astrology-Miller
- Original Message - From: Dave To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/12/2006 12:33:01 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Astrology-Miller the sad part is that one claiming to be a Christian (Blain/ DavH)has lead the believer to this error.DAVEH: Which believer on TT do you think either of us (LDS) has led astray, Judge Dean? cd: Redundant question/ Already answered Dave.if the Mormons were allowed to dwell among ChristiansDAVEH: And your solution is.to not allow Mormons on TT? cd: No absolute not -Mormons are indeed welcome on TT-I would defend their rights as well as almost any one else.Believe it or not I am not trying to remove anybody from TT- I am trying to get this site under control-but this is an unruly bunch-who has chosen to provoke a fight rather then comply-So I am giving you guys what you ask for.If you want it nice then be nice if you want it rough I can give that also. I am merely a reflection of the group as Moderator.Did you notice that David spoke of the group voting for the rules-which required total agreement from TT. Has this ever happened in the history of this site?But to the point -the group decides what they want. Consider my present form of debate the same as that. Dave. God's spirit knew and gave this Prophecy DAVEH: To whom did he give this Prophecy, Judge Dean? DavidM is the only self proclaimed prophet on TT of who I am aware. I do not recall him suggesting that God gave him this Prophecy, so do you know of other prophets on TT? Who receive said this Prophecy? cd: Matt:7:6more souls must be harmed before a change is made.DAVEH: Which TTers have been harmed, and what change do you propose? cd: redundant question/ already answered. You seem paranoid Dave-relax-Your history has proved that you get into trouble when you get all worked up-relax-I am not after putting you off this site- I am only after your soul (for your betterment) :-)This is going to get real personal-real soonDAVEH: It seems to me that you opened that door, Judge Dean. Do you not think calling me a pagan made it real personal??? cd: The truth is always personal as is the soul.That is why we say:" one can have a personal relationship with the Christ of the Bible"- the pain in hell is also personal DavH. How can one root out the problem if the problem cannot be addressed? Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Astrology-Miller Maybe that is why we are not to go to the World for answers. The dictionary is not the discerner of who/what is a Christian. The World has no answers. All the soothsayers at Jackson Square were made an open show open shame for all to see. They know not at what they stumble! Just more FALSE PROPHETS, I agree it is a serious matter.' cd : Yeah and the sad part is that one claiming to be a Christian (Blain/ DavH)has lead the believer to this error. This act of leadership by a Mormon doesn't get more Pagan than this -no small wonder the evil spirit behind the Mormon's wouldn't want to be identified as such-It can cause more harm if it appears as an Angle of light. Reminds me of the first time I can on this site and warned David that this event would happen if the Mormons were allowed to dwell among Christians without a clear understanding of what they are-and was ignored-this was before I even knew what a Mormon was and only preached at intersections-but God's spirit knew and gave this Prophecy.It seems that history must repeat itself and more souls must be harmed before a change is made.Question for you Kevin: Is a Pagan by any other name still a Pagan? And my brother in Christ-This is going to get real personal-real soon. Dean Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/10/2006 7:33:15 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Kinder Gentler God would not call names - pagan ? Blaine has posted a number of times refering to Astrology.. What do you think of such? cd: It goes much deeper than that Bro. Kevin-David Miller was actually having Blaine do readings for Him-gave him his birth dated and even comment on how actuate the reading were-have you ever heard of the likes from a man of God? No different then what we saw in front of the Catholic off Bourbon street remember? Seems that some believers won't request God's prediction on the future or even ask Him they have to inquire of spirits.Here is God's take on the matter. Isa 47:13 Thou art wearied in the multitude of thy counsels. Let now the astrologers, the stargazers, the monthly prognosticators, stand up, and save thee from these things that shall come upon thee. Isa 47:14 Behold, they shall be as stubble; the fire shall burn them; they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame: there shall not be a coal to warm at, nor fire to sit before it. Isa 47:15 Thus shall they be unto thee with whom thou hast labored, even thy merchants, from thy youth: the
Re: [TruthTalk] DaveH is a pagan ?????
held beliefs an attack on your person? Seriously; can you expound? Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I called you a Mormon-to which you do not deny-You called me a Christian to wit I did not deny. By doing so you separated the two-and as receiving the first (Mormon) and tagging me with the second(Christian) you have clearly showed yourself to be non ChristianDAVEH: What kind of convoluted logic is that, Judge Dean??? Does any other TTer who understands what Dean said above, agree with his explanation?You DaveH are a Pagan.DAVEH: I respectfully disagree, Judge Dean. To me, your above comment is a blatant ad-hom, and I will request Judge Moore take the appropriate action if you do not wish to apologize.he fact that you do not follow the teaching of Jesus ChristDAVEH: Is that coming from Judge Dean, or Judge Moore?Get over it the truth is not an Ad. Homein attackDAVEH: Really?!?!?!?! Did you just make a new TT rule, Judge Moore? Or was that Judge Dean expressing his unfounded wishes?state a petition to impeach meDAVEH: Seems to me that you are doing a good job of it on your own.I am not Judge DeanDAVEH: Then am I to assume that every time you pass judgment, you are speaking as Judge Moore?by your standards isn't that Ad. Homein attackingDAVEH: ??? I thought we were playing the game by your standards, Judge Dean! Hence.Get over it the truth is not an Ad. Homein attack according to you.< FONT face=Arial color=#ff>I will have to go to the ModeratorDAVEH: I've not had much luck with him, but I suspect he will listen to you. Are you implying Dean called you such NAMES?DAVEH: I'll let Judge Dean answer that, Kevin..I say/demand again " Get the "Church of Jesus Christ" name off your temple Pagan!!! cd: Hey- that is Judge Moore to you buddy. You are the one that put a separation between Christianity and Mormonism-in you comment -and when I declare that by doing so this is Paganism you state crying . My Comment: Is it the Mormon in you doing such-or are you just plain mean? Your reply:So let me ask you, Dean..Is it the Christian in you doing such-or are you just plain mean? I called you a Mormon-to which you do not deny-You called me a Christian to wit I did not deny. By doing so you separated the two-and as receiving the first (Mormon) and tagging me with the second(Christian) you have clearly showed yourself to be non Christian-To be non-Christian is to be a Pagan. You DaveH are a Pagan.The fact that you do not follow the teaching of Jesus Christ is a deeper conformation of that point. Get over it the truth is not an Ad. Homein attack- or state a petition to impeach me.I am not Judge Dean -by your standards isn't that Ad. Homein attacking-better stop or I will have to go to the Moderator.Hey -Judge Moore Moderate this!Kevin Deegan wrote: Are you implying Dean called you such NAMES?Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Dave why are you trying to fuel dissection between the groups?DAVEH: Hwell, I hadn't thought about dissecting you guys, but it is a tempting thought you've given me! ;-) Is it the Mormon in you doing such-or are you just plain mean?DAVEH: LOL..Sometimes I think SPers are their own worst enemy! You have the power to push the button that bars me from TT, Dean. If you do such, I don't think your problems will all go with me. I've been called a pagan here, a snake in the grass, satan's messenger boyand I've been falsely accused of condoning violence against SPers. So let me ask you, Dean..Is it the Christian in you doing such-or are you just plain mea n?Dean Moore wrote: cd:Dave why are you trying to fuel dissection between the groups??Is it the Mormon in you doing such-or are you just plain mean?. - Original Message - F rom: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/7/2006 11:03:40 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose - Moderator commentADHOM* The latter. - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 07, 2006 10:10 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose - Moderator comment ADHOM* IFO would not have such an assessment of anyone on TT.DAVEH: Is that is because you do not consider yourself a protected friend of the moderator and fear reprisal, Lance .or is it because you have a measure of respect for TT rules and other TTers?Lance Muir wrote: So Kevin, at least I know where we stand. Thanks for the clarity in your judgment. IFO would not have such an assessment of anyone on TT. -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
Re: [TruthTalk] Astrology-Miller
cd: Good idea John-Stay with the jokes rather then quoting the Bible as you will get in less trouble in the judgement that way. - Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/12/2006 12:48:30 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Astrology-Miller It is quite clear that the presense of the Mormon population on TT has nothing to do with the current problems of TT. I am a surprised, I must admit, to hearing of Dean's admission that he thinks of this forum as some sort of mission opportunity for the SP ing crowd. This reminds me of a joke a baptist brother told me about the Church of Christ in heaven. I won't bore you with full joke, but the punch line was "Not so loud - they think they're the only ones up here." Being here on TT - I kind of feel like I died and went to heaven !! jd -- Original message -- From: Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> the sad part is that one claiming to be a Christian (Blain/ DavH)has lead the believer to this error.DAVEH: Which believer on TT do you think either of us (LDS) has led astray, Judge Dean?if the Mormons were allowed to dwell among ChristiansDAVEH: And your solution is.to not allow Mormons on TT?God's spirit knew and gave this ProphecyDAVEH: To whom did he give this Prophecy, Judge Dean? DavidM is the only self pr oclaimed prophet on TT of who I am aware. I do not recall him suggesting that God gave him this Prophecy, so do you know of other prophets on TT? Who receive said this Prophecy?more souls must be harmed before a change is made.DAVEH: Which TTers have been harmed, and what change do you propose?This is going to get real personal-real soonDAVEH: It seems to me that you opened that door, Judge Dean. Do you not think calling me a pagan made it real personal??? Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Astrology-Miller Maybe that is why we are not to go to the World for answers. The dictionary is not the discerner of who/what is a Christian. The World has no answers. All the soothsayers at Jackson Square were made an open show open shame for all to see. They know not at what they stumble! Just more FALSE PROPHETS, I agree it is a serious matter.' cd : Yeah and the sad part is that one claiming to be a Christian (Blain/ DavH)has lead the believer to this error. This act of leadership by a Mormon doesn't get more Pagan than this -no small wonder the evil spirit behind the Mormon's wouldn't want to be identified as such-It can cause more harm if it appears as an Angle of light. Reminds me of the first time I can on this site and warned David that this event would happen if the Mormons were allowed to dwell among Christians without a clear understanding of what they are-and was ignored-this was before I even knew what a Mormon was and only preached at intersections-but God's spirit knew and gave this Prophecy.It seems that history must repeat itself and more souls must be harmed before a change is made.Question for you Kevin: Is a Pagan by any other name still a Pagan? And my brother in Christ-This is going to get real personal-real soon. Dean Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/10/2006 7:33:15 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Kinder Gentler God would not call names - pagan ? Blaine has posted a number of times refering to Astrology.. What do you think of such? cd: It goes much deeper than that Bro. Kevin-David Miller was actually having Blaine do readings for Him-gave him his birth dated and even comment on how actuate the reading were-have you ever heard of the likes from a man of God? No different then what we saw in front of the Catholic off Bourbon street remember? Seems that some believers won't request God's prediction on the future or even ask Him they have to inquire of spirits.Here is God's take on the matter. Isa 47:13 Thou art wearied in the multitude of thy counsels. Let now the astrologers, the stargazers, the monthly prognosticators, stand up, and save thee from these things that shall come upon thee. Isa 47:14 Behold, they shall be as stubble; the fire shall burn them; they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame: there shall not be a coal to warm at, nor fire to sit before it. Isa 47:15 Thus shall they be unto thee with whom thou hast labored, even thy merchants, from thy youth: they shall wander every one to his quarter; none shall save thee. Lev 19:31 Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God. cd: Has David defiled himself ? My suggestion is for repentence to be given-in sackcloth and ashes if need be-Serous matter. PA'GAN, n. [L. paganus, a peasant or countryman, from pagus, a village.] A heathen; a Gentile; an idolater; one who worships false gods. This word wa
Re: [TruthTalk] Messenger boys
- Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/12/2006 12:29:48 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Messenger boys cd: The you need to set limits on the authority you give to others-see below- I am only doing the job you asked me to do David. The site is growing again-membership is up/posting is up-are you upset because I am getting resentment from some of Satan's messenger boys? That should be expected by you David as this is exactly what happens on the street when God is working-Satan howls.. And who might these be ??? cd: If I wanted to identify them I would have put their names in the above: But I suspect you know.Do you consider this to be Ad. Hom? Close to Ad. Hom.? How strong is this Ad. Hom rules in it's present form-as in it ability to protect others from attacks.Have you ever wondered that from the start that this was planned and some people just love walking into traps?Scary huh:-) .
Re: [TruthTalk] Believers in bondage to sin?
cd: To deep for me DavH.Have you ever wondered why some people lock the controls for colors/fronts, print size, DavH? Same reason that one has to spend time taking the security strips off movies one buys and pay higher prices for food- The innocent lose options because of the wicked. > [Original Message] > From: Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Date: 3/12/2006 12:20:06 AM > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Believers in bondage to sin? > > > DAVEH: Nothing impossible or even difficult about that, Kevin. Ever > hear of a boxing/wrestling ring? A ring definitively implies a circle, > and such a ring is almost always viewed as a square when hosting boxers. > > > Square circles KD > > > > > -- > ~~~ > Dave Hansen > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.langlitz.com > ~~~ > If you wish to receive > things I find interesting, > I maintain six email lists... > JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, > STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS. > > > -- > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org > > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Conversation with Major Tom Tuppenney - Salvation Army
cd: I have thought on that often and if so both of us are in trouble:-) - Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/11/2006 7:30:35 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Conversation with Major Tom Tuppenney - Salvation Army To those that find problems with the spelling-thank you- because if that is the only problem you can find to criticize then I am doing well-and am well aware that my Master was criticized before me and He is greater then I-there are also some people that preach with me that do not wash their hand before they eat? Well- I am waiting? I am wondering if deegan still believes that spelling reflects on one's I.Q? jd
RE: [TruthTalk] Conversation with Major Tom Tuppenney - Salvation Army
cd; Why can't this so-called Bible expert come and speak for himself so we can see if his words stand the Bible test-So far the dancing brotherhood have fallen way short-To dizzy from all the dancing around passages in the Bible to get a solid footing on truth. - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/11/2006 12:32:51 PM Subject: [TruthTalk] Conversation with Major Tom Tuppenney - Salvation Army Director Harbor Light Mission Toronto - 10 years Director Harbor Light Mission Detroit - 5 years We discussed the responses I received on TT. He was outraged at the burden you'd lay on believers as a result of a theology absent grace. In addition to that which was previously spoken of, he wondered whether any of you have friends with psychological disorders? Does one suggest: read the bible more, pray harder, take the truth more seriously, stop believing the lies of the evil one...fill in the blank. My goodness! ..if y'all have simple, doable, quick solutions for believers vis a vis sin so that those persons my friend is 'wasting his time and money and counselling on' then, I'll send him along to see you or better, I'll have him offer you a position at a soon to be ex-addiction center.
Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: JOHN: An extended discussion on Person/Persons/Personhood including you, BT and, DM
Patience John I will honor you request soon-but at the moment my schedule is full. - Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/11/2006 11:30:11 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: JOHN: An extended discussion on Person/Persons/Personhood including you, BT and, DM Had Bill for breakfast -- at a whim !! ??? Then that public debate with me should be a "cake walk." Let's do it. Grace versus obedience or some such thing! Until and unless that happens, I will assume your speech below to be only a brag. jd - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/11/2006 7:06:22 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: JOHN: An extended discussion on Person/Persons/Personhood including you, BT and, DM Judy: Bill's 'concept of humanity' is biblical. IFF it in any way concurs with someone else's biblical understanding than their biblical conclusions are similar/identical. Bill has never 'fled' TT as a result of being 'bested'! It pains him to witness, day after day, the mangling of the scriptures and the puerile thinking reflected therein. The most substantive conversations on TT have included Bill Taylor, John Smithson and, David Miller. (honourable mention to the dearly departed: Debbie, Caroline and Jonathan) Lastly, the demeanour of Dave Hansen is a model that IFO appreciate. cd: Lance- Bill got his clock cleaned on a regular basics on this site: Izzy or I ,either one, could have him for breakfast at whim. Calvinism has bound his mind and prevented truth from entering in-But if he ever got over that he would indeed be a Philosopher to reckon with-but as is he is only a babe in Christ. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 11, 2006 06:38 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: JOHN: An extended discussion on Person/Persons/Personhood including you, BT and, DM She is not claiming any such thing, the victory always belongs to Christ and those who say what He says. You obviously have not read the "whole archives" JD. She did just what she said and the amazing thing (to me) was that Bill stuck around at least until this point. But this did not exhaust the subject of personhood. All it proved was Bill's Calvinistic concept of humanity. On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 08:04:46 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: And while some stand atop the mountain, claiming victory for one's self, the words of a master survive on their own merits to those who have eyes with which to see. :-) Bill's comments are worth reading again. jd From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I remember that well I cornered poor BT with the futility of his logic, and the next thing you knew he (again) disappeared from TT. Read the whole archives and see for yourself. J iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir FYI: Izzy, Judy, Kevin & Dean. THANKS TO THE BISHOP FOR THIS FINE WORK! From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Lance Muir Sent: March 10, 2006 11:52 Subject: Re: JOHN: An extended discussion on Person/Persons/Personhood including you, BT and, DM Well, just a few weeks ago - Jan or the first of Feb. And a rather good discussion (Bill was in on this one) back in July of last year. This is Bill sometime around the end of July of 05 Okay, I will address your question and then try to summarize my position. I chose not to answer your question for the following reason: implicit in your wording is the assumption that we can separate the spirit aspect of personhood from the other aspects, the whole of which integrates to form what we call "persons," and that we can then address that aspect in abstention of the others. I do not accept that premise as it relates to our discussion, and therefore could not answer your question in the form it was structured. When the biblical authors speak to living subjects of their present or prior state of death, they are speaking metaphorically of their entire person; e.g., when Paul writes that his readers had been dead in trespasses and sin, he is speaking of their entire state of being and not just about their spiritual condition. The spirit aspect of their personhood was no more dead and no more alive than the rest of their being. He is speaking metaphorically about the hopelessness and helplessness of their entire former existence in the depravity of their fallen state. I mplicit in his use of the term "dead" is the conveyance that they could do nothing of themselves to remedy the fact that they were doomed in that former state. I hope this will satisfy your request and trust that we have pretty much exhausted the need to continue this discussion. Thank you for your patience and the charity with which you conducted yourself. It is a pleasure to converse with you when we are not nipping at each others heels. God bless you, Bill
Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: JOHN: An extended discussion on Person/Persons/Personhood including you, BT and, DM
- Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/11/2006 7:06:22 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: JOHN: An extended discussion on Person/Persons/Personhood including you, BT and, DM Judy: Bill's 'concept of humanity' is biblical. IFF it in any way concurs with someone else's biblical understanding than their biblical conclusions are similar/identical. Bill has never 'fled' TT as a result of being 'bested'! It pains him to witness, day after day, the mangling of the scriptures and the puerile thinking reflected therein. The most substantive conversations on TT have included Bill Taylor, John Smithson and, David Miller. (honourable mention to the dearly departed: Debbie, Caroline and Jonathan) Lastly, the demeanour of Dave Hansen is a model that IFO appreciate. cd: Lance- Bill got his clock cleaned on a regular basics on this site: Izzy or I ,either one, could have him for breakfast at whim. Calvinism has bound his mind and prevented truth from entering in-But if he ever got over that he would indeed be a Philosopher to reckon with-but as is he is only a babe in Christ. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 11, 2006 06:38 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: JOHN: An extended discussion on Person/Persons/Personhood including you, BT and, DM She is not claiming any such thing, the victory always belongs to Christ and those who say what He says. You obviously have not read the "whole archives" JD. She did just what she said and the amazing thing (to me) was that Bill stuck around at least until this point. But this did not exhaust the subject of personhood. All it proved was Bill's Calvinistic concept of humanity. On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 08:04:46 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: And while some stand atop the mountain, claiming victory for one's self, the words of a master survive on their own merits to those who have eyes with which to see. :-) Bill's comments are worth reading again. jd From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I remember that well I cornered poor BT with the futility of his logic, and the next thing you knew he (again) disappeared from TT. Read the whole archives and see for yourself. J iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir FYI: Izzy, Judy, Kevin & Dean. THANKS TO THE BISHOP FOR THIS FINE WORK! From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Lance Muir Sent: March 10, 2006 11:52 Subject: Re: JOHN: An extended discussion on Person/Persons/Personhood including you, BT and, DM Well, just a few weeks ago - Jan or the first of Feb. And a rather good discussion (Bill was in on this one) back in July of last year. This is Bill sometime around the end of July of 05 Okay, I will address your question and then try to summarize my position. I chose not to answer your question for the following reason: implicit in your wording is the assumption that we can separate the spirit aspect of personhood from the other aspects, the whole of which integrates to form what we call "persons," and that we can then address that aspect in abstention of the others. I do not accept that premise as it relates to our discussion, and therefore could not answer your question in the form it was structured. When the biblical authors speak to living subjects of their present or prior state of death, they are speaking metaphorically of their entire person; e.g., when Paul writes that his readers had been dead in trespasses and sin, he is speaking of their entire state of being and not just about their spiritual condition. The spirit aspect of their personhood was no more dead and no more alive than the rest of their being. He is speaking metaphorically about the hopelessness and helplessness of their entire former existence in the depravity of their fallen state. I mplicit in his use of the term "dead" is the conveyance that they could do nothing of themselves to remedy the fact that they were doomed in that former state. I hope this will satisfy your request and trust that we have pretty much exhausted the need to continue this discussion. Thank you for your patience and the charity with which you conducted yourself. It is a pleasure to converse with you when we are not nipping at each others heels. God bless you, Bill
Re: [TruthTalk] Astrology-Miller
- Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/11/2006 6:54:38 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Astrology-Miller Your criticism of DM on astrology is based upon a faulty 'reading'. This faulty reading was exhibited by Kevin re:David's nuanced take on pagan, cult/sect & Mormonism.Genuine conversations take place when the view of the other person is equitably represented. Now, if ppl can't read TT with understanding then what are we to make of their reading of the Scriptures? cd: You seem to twist truth and scripture almost as well as Mormons on this site do-if it suit you needs of the moment-therefore truth is secondary to you selfish needs. Jesus Christ said lest you die to your self you will be no means enter the kingdom of heaven-For the sake of your soul I suggest you heed these words. - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 11, 2006 06:35 Subject: [TruthTalk] Astrology-Miller - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/10/2006 7:33:15 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Kinder Gentler God would not call names - pagan ? Blaine has posted a number of times refering to Astrology. What do you think of such? cd: It goes much deeper than that Bro. Kevin-David Miller was actually having Blaine do readings for Him-gave him his birth dated and even comment on how actuate the reading were-have you ever heard of the likes from a man of God? No different then what we saw in front of the Catholic off Bourbon street remember? Seems that some believers won't request God's prediction on the future or even ask Him they have to inquire of spirits.Here is God's take on the matter. Isa 47:13 Thou art wearied in the multitude of thy counsels. Let now the astrologers, the stargazers, the monthly prognosticators, stand up, and save thee from these things that shall come upon thee. Isa 47:14 Behold, they shall be as stubble; the fire shall burn them; they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame: there shall not be a coal to warm at, nor fire to sit before it. Isa 47:15 Thus shall they be unto thee with whom thou hast labored, even thy merchants, from thy youth: they shall wander every one to his quarter; none shall save thee. Lev 19:31 Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God. cd: Has David defiled himself ? My suggestion is for repentence to be given-in sackcloth and ashes if need be-Serous matter. PA'GAN, n. [L. paganus, a peasant or countryman, from pagus, a village.] A heathen; a Gentile; an idolater; one who worships false gods. This word was originally applied to the inhabitants of the country, who on the first propagation of the christian religion adhered to the worship of false gods, or refused to receive christianity, after it had been received by the inhabitants of the cities. In like manner, heathen signifies an inhabitant of the heath or woods, and caffer, in Arabic, signifies the inhabitant of a hut or cottage, and one that does not receive the religion of Mohammed. Pagan is used to distinguish one from a Christian and a Mohammedan. PA'GAN, a. Heathen; heathenish; Gentile; noting a person who worships false gods. 1. Pertaining to the worship of false gods.Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: OK let me chime in I will restate it for Dean DH's BELIEFS are Pagan!DAVEH: OK Kevinspecifically in what way do draw that conclusion? What is it that you think I believe that qualifies as a pagan belief? First, you may want to define what you think pagan means so we will have a common starting point.Kevin Deegan wrote: "You .. are a pagan" is not the same as "Your beliefs are pagan" For the sake of Lance (IYO) OK let me chime in I will restate it for Dean DH's BELIEFS are Pagan! So does the BIBLE practice ADHOMS? AND name names! Sop let me get this straight Paul should NOT have said: Acts 13 Elymas the sorcerer ... PAUL SAYS: And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord? SHOULD BE And said, O full of all subtilty beliefs and all beliefs of mischief, thou child with beliefs of the devil, thou believing against all righteousness, wilt thou not cease believing to pervert the right ways of the Lord? (what VERSION would this be? ) Since Paul was FULL of the Holy Ghost (IMO VS 9) when he said this does that mean God called Elymas A DEVIL? Is God ADHOM? Did God call him a PERVERT? Just wonderin...[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You DaveH are a Pagan.DAVEH: I respectfully disagree, Judge Dean. To me, your above comment is a blatant ad-hom Why is attacking your genuinely held beliefs an attack on your person? Seriously; can you expound?
Re: [TruthTalk] Astrology-Miller
- Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/11/2006 9:11:05 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Astrology-Miller Maybe that is why we are not to go to the World for answers. The dictionary is not the discerner of who/what is a Christian. The World has no answers. All the soothsayers at Jackson Square were made an open show open shame for all to see. They know not at what they stumble! Just more FALSE PROPHETS, I agree it is a serious matter.' cd : Yeah and the sad part is that one claiming to be a Christian (Blain/ DavH)has lead the believer to this error. This act of leadership by a Mormon doesn't get more Pagan than this -no small wonder the evil spirit behind the Mormon's wouldn't want to be identified as such-It can cause more harm if it appears as an Angle of light. Reminds me of the first time I can on this site and warned David that this event would happen if the Mormons were allowed to dwell among Christians without a clear understanding of what they are-and was ignored-this was before I even knew what a Mormon was and only preached at intersections-but God's spirit knew and gave this Prophecy.It seems that history must repeat itself and more souls must be harmed before a change is made.Question for you Kevin: Is a Pagan by any other name still a Pagan? And my brother in Christ-This is going to get real personal-real soon. Dean Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/10/2006 7:33:15 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Kinder Gentler God would not call names - pagan ? Blaine has posted a number of times refering to Astrology.. What do you think of such? cd: It goes much deeper than that Bro. Kevin-David Miller was actually having Blaine do readings for Him-gave him his birth dated and even comment on how actuate the reading were-have you ever heard of the likes from a man of God? No different then what we saw in front of the Catholic off Bourbon street remember? Seems that some believers won't request God's prediction on the future or even ask Him they have to inquire of spirits.Here is God's take on the matter. Isa 47:13 Thou art wearied in the multitude of thy counsels. Let now the astrologers, the stargazers, the monthly prognosticators, stand up, and save thee from these things that shall come upon thee. Isa 47:14 Behold, they shall be as stubble; the fire shall burn them; they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame: there shall not be a coal to warm at, nor fire to sit before it. Isa 47:15 Thus shall they be unto thee with whom thou hast labored, even thy merchants, from thy youth: they shall wander every one to his quarter; none shall save thee. Lev 19:31 Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God. cd: Has David defiled himself ? My suggestion is for repentence to be given-in sackcloth and ashes if need be-Serous matter. PA'GAN, n. [L. paganus, a peasant or countryman, from pagus, a village.] A heathen; a Gentile; an idolater; one who worships false gods. This word was originally applied to the inhabitants of the country, who on the first propagation of the christian religion adhered to the worship of false gods, or refused to receive christianity, after it had been received by the inhabitants of the cities. In like manner, heathen signifies an inhabitant of the heath or woods, and caffer, in Arabic, signifies the inhabitant of a hut or cottage, and one that does not receive the religion of Mohammed. Pagan is used to distinguish one from a Christian and a Mohammedan. PA'GAN, a. Heathen; heathenish; Gentile; noting a person who worships false gods. 1. Pertaining to the worship of false gods.Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: OK let me chime in I will restate it for Dean DH's BELIEFS are Pagan!DAVEH: OK Kevinspecifically in what way do draw that conclusion? What is it that you think I believe that qualifies as a pagan belief? First, you may want to define what you think pagan means so we will have a common starting point.Kevin Deegan wrote: "You .. are a pagan" is not the same as "Your beliefs are pagan" For the sake of Lance (IYO) OK let me chime in I will restate it for Dean DH's BELIEFS are Pagan! So does the BIBLE practice ADHOMS? AND name names! Sop let me get this straight Paul should NOT have said: Acts 13 Elymas the sorcerer ... PAUL SAYS: And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord? SHOULD BE And said, O full of all subtilty beliefs and all beliefs of mischief, thou child with beliefs of the devil, thou believing against all righteousness, wilt thou not cease believing to pervert the right ways of th
Re: [TruthTalk] David Miller 2
cd: Then enjoy the red-But don't change other peoples words to appear Angry while you answer to the humble as in this example: John:Actually, the red is much easier to read , for me. cd: Sorry John-I didn't mean to anger you.Red it is. - Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/10/2006 12:03:08 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] David Miller 2 Actually, the red is much easier to read , for me. jd -- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cd: David -Why is it not an offence for DaveH to alter my words? I wrote in blue on a 10 scale-if you will read the below my words were altered by DaveH to red and farther down to a size 12 scale-this is an obvious attempt to make me sound harsh while Daveh kept his wording at common black size 10 scale? - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/9/2006 12:33:23 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose -ModeratorcommentADHOM* I called you a Mormon-to which you do not deny-You called me a Christian to wit I did not deny. By doing so you separated the two-and as receiving the first (Mormon) and tagging me with the second(Christian) you have clearly showed yourself to be non ChristianDAVEH: What kind of convoluted logic is that, Judge Dean??? Does any other TTer who understands what Dean said above, agree with his explanation?You DaveH are a Pagan.DAVEH: I respectfully disagree, Judge Dean. To me, your above comment is a blatant ad-hom, and I will request Judge Moore take the appropriate action if you do not wish to apologize.he fact that you do not follow the teaching of Jesus ChristDAVEH: Is that coming from Judge Dean, or Judge Moore?Get over it the truth is not an Ad. Homein attackDAVEH: Really?!?!?!?! Did you just make a new TT rule, Judge Moore? Or was that Judge Dean expressing his unfounded wishes?state a petition to impeach meDAVEH: Seems to me that you are doing a good job of it on your own.I am not Judge DeanDAVEH: Then am I to assume that every time you pass judgment, you are speaking as Judge Moore?by your standards isn't that Ad. Homein attackingDAVEH: ??? I thought we were playing the game by your standards, Judge Dean! Hence.Get over it the truth is not an Ad. Homein attack according to you.I will have to go to the ModeratorDAVEH: I've not had much luck with him, but I suspect he will listen to you. Are you implying Dean called you such NAMES?DAVEH: I'll let Judge Dean answer that, Kevin..I say/demand again " Get the "Church of Jesus Christ" name off your temple Pagan!!! cd: Hey- that is Judge Moore to you buddy. You are the one that put a separation between Christianity and Mormonism-in you comment -and when I declare that by doing so this is Paganism you state crying . My Comment: Is it the Mormon in you doing such-or are you just plain mean? Your reply:So let me ask you, Dean..Is it the Christian in you doing such-or are you just plain mean? I called you a Mormon-to which you do not deny-You called me a Christian to wit I did not deny. By doing so you separated the two-and as receiving the first (Mormon) and tagging me with the second(Christian) you have clearly showed yourself to be non Christian-To be non-Christian is to be a Pagan. You DaveH are a Pagan.The fact that you do not follow the teaching of Jesus Christ is a deeper conformation of that point. Get over it the truth is not an Ad. Homein attack- or state a petition to impeach me.I am not Judge Dean -by your standards isn't that Ad. Homein attacking-better stop or I will have to go to the Moderator.Hey -Judge Moore Moderate this!Kevin Deegan wrote: Are you implying Dean called you such NAMES?Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Dave why are you trying to fuel dissection between the groups?DAVEH: Hwell, I hadn't thought about dissecting you guys, but it is a tempting thought you've given me! ;-) Is it the Mormon in you doing such-or are you just plain mean?DAVEH: LOL..Sometimes I think SPers are their own worst enemy! You have the power to push the button that bars me from TT, Dean. If you do such, I don't think your problems will all go with me. I've been called a pagan here, a snake in the grass, satan's messenger boyand I've been falsely accused of condoning violence against SPers. So let me ask you, Dean..Is it the Christian in you doing such-or are you just plain mea n?Dean Moore wrote: cd:Dave why are you trying to fuel dissection between the groups??Is it the Mormon in you doing such-or are you just plain mean?. - Original Message - F rom: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/7/2006 11:03:40 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose - Moderator comme
RE: [TruthTalk] Is a Mormon a Christian?
> [Original Message] > From: David Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Date: 3/10/2006 2:00:16 PM > Subject: [TruthTalk] Is a Mormon a Christian? > > Judy wrote: > > What reason would anyone on TT have > > to assume that a lifelong Mormon is also > > a Christian? > > Following is how my dictionary defines a Christian: > > Chris·tian > noun (plural Chris·tians) > 1. believer in Jesus Christ as savior: somebody who believes that Jesus > Christ was sent to the world by God to save humanity, and who tries to > follow his teachings and example Is the below liar a Christian if they claim to be? 1Jo 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. > > If we accept the secular definition of believer as somebody who believes in > the teachings of a particular religious faith, then from my perspective, > Mormonism falls into this category of Christian. This does not mean that > they have the right belief system, or that any of them will be saved. It > simply places them in the Christian category, as a religious sect that is > centered on the idea that Jesus Christ is the Savior sent by God to save > humanity. There are false sects within Christianity, and I think the Mormon > sects are among them. > > David Miller. > > -- > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org > > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
[TruthTalk] Astrology-Miller
- Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/10/2006 7:33:15 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Kinder Gentler God would not call names - pagan ? Blaine has posted a number of times refering to Astrology. What do you think of such? cd: It goes much deeper than that Bro. Kevin-David Miller was actually having Blaine do readings for Him-gave him his birth dated and even comment on how actuate the reading were-have you ever heard of the likes from a man of God? No different then what we saw in front of the Catholic off Bourbon street remember? Seems that some believers won't request God's prediction on the future or even ask Him they have to inquire of spirits.Here is God's take on the matter. Isa 47:13 Thou art wearied in the multitude of thy counsels. Let now the astrologers, the stargazers, the monthly prognosticators, stand up, and save thee from these things that shall come upon thee. Isa 47:14 Behold, they shall be as stubble; the fire shall burn them; they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame: there shall not be a coal to warm at, nor fire to sit before it. Isa 47:15 Thus shall they be unto thee with whom thou hast labored, even thy merchants, from thy youth: they shall wander every one to his quarter; none shall save thee. Lev 19:31 Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God. cd: Has David defiled himself ? My suggestion is for repentence to be given-in sackcloth and ashes if need be-Serous matter. PA'GAN, n. [L. paganus, a peasant or countryman, from pagus, a village.] A heathen; a Gentile; an idolater; one who worships false gods. This word was originally applied to the inhabitants of the country, who on the first propagation of the christian religion adhered to the worship of false gods, or refused to receive christianity, after it had been received by the inhabitants of the cities. In like manner, heathen signifies an inhabitant of the heath or woods, and caffer, in Arabic, signifies the inhabitant of a hut or cottage, and one that does not receive the religion of Mohammed. Pagan is used to distinguish one from a Christian and a Mohammedan. PA'GAN, a. Heathen; heathenish; Gentile; noting a person who worships false gods. 1. Pertaining to the worship of false gods.Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: OK let me chime in I will restate it for Dean DH's BELIEFS are Pagan!DAVEH: OK Kevinspecifically in what way do draw that conclusion? What is it that you think I believe that qualifies as a pagan belief? First, you may want to define what you think pagan means so we will have a common starting point.Kevin Deegan wrote: "You .. are a pagan" is not the same as "Your beliefs are pagan" For the sake of Lance (IYO) OK let me chime in I will restate it for Dean DH's BELIEFS are Pagan! So does the BIBLE practice ADHOMS? AND name names! Sop let me get this straight Paul should NOT have said: Acts 13 Elymas the sorcerer ... PAUL SAYS: And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord? SHOULD BE And said, O full of all subtilty beliefs and all beliefs of mischief, thou child with beliefs of the devil, thou believing against all righteousness, wilt thou not cease believing to pervert the right ways of the Lord? (what VERSION would this be? ) Since Paul was FULL of the Holy Ghost (IMO VS 9) when he said this does that mean God called Elymas A DEVIL? Is God ADHOM? Did God call him a PERVERT? Just wonderin...[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You DaveH are a Pagan.DAVEH: I respectfully disagree, Judge Dean. To me, your above comment is a blatant ad-hom Why is attacking your genuinely held beliefs an attack on your person? Seriously; can you expound? KD DH can make the point but let me chime in here, as well. "You .. are a pagan" is not the same as "Your beliefs are pagan>" Those who have eyes, let them see, Lord. jd -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> You DaveH are a Pagan.DAVEH: ; I respectfully disagree, Judge Dean. To me, your above comment is a blatant ad-hom Why is attacking your genuinely held beliefs an attack on your person? Seriously; can you expound? Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I called you a Mormon-to which you do not deny-You called me a Christian to wit I did not deny. By doing so you separated the two-and as receiving the first (Mormon) and tagging me with the second(Christian) you have clearly showed yourself to be non ChristianDAVEH: What kind of convoluted logic is that, Judge Dean??? Does any other TTer who understands what Dean said above, agree with his explanation?You DaveH are a Pagan.DAVEH: I respectfully disagree, Judge Dean. To me, your above comment is a blatant ad-hom, and I will request
Re: [TruthTalk] David Miller 2
- Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/10/2006 6:27:50 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] David Miller 2 Again, public response to a public post: FWIW I'm totally with DH on this one. What Dean attempted was a less than clever attempt to be clever. cd:If honest and truth are not important to you then feel free to do so Lance-just know you will be with him in the judgement also-side by side. - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 10, 2006 06:18 Subject: [TruthTalk] David Miller 2 cd: David -Why is it not an offence for DaveH to alter my words? I wrote in blue on a 10 scale-if you will read the below my words were altered by DaveH to red and farther down to a size 12 scale-this is an obvious attempt to make me sound harsh while Daveh kept his wording at common black size 10 scale? - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/9/2006 12:33:23 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose -ModeratorcommentADHOM* I called you a Mormon-to which you do not deny-You called me a Christian to wit I did not deny. By doing so you separated the two-and as receiving the first (Mormon) and tagging me with the second(Christian) you have clearly showed yourself to be non ChristianDAVEH: What kind of convoluted logic is that, Judge Dean??? Does any other TTer who understands what Dean said above, agree with his explanation?You DaveH are a Pagan.DAVEH: I respectfully disagree, Judge Dean. To me, your above comment is a blatant ad-hom, and I will request Judge Moore take the appropriate action if you do not wish to apologize.he fact that you do not follow the teaching of Jesus ChristDAVEH: Is that coming from Judge Dean, or Judge Moore?Get over it the truth is not an Ad. Homein attackDAVEH: Really?!?!?!?! Did you just make a new TT rule, Judge Moore? Or was that Judge Dean expressing his unfounded wishes?state a petition to impeach meDAVEH: Seems to me that you are doing a good job of it on your own.I am not Judge DeanDAVEH: Then am I to assume that every time you pass judgment, you are speaking as Judge Moore?by your standards isn't that Ad. Homein attackingDAVEH: ??? I thought we were playing the game by your standards, Judge Dean! Hence.Get over it the truth is not an Ad. Homein attack according to you.I will have to go to the ModeratorDAVEH: I've not had much luck with him, but I suspect he will listen to you. Are you implying Dean called you such NAMES?DAVEH: I'll let Judge Dean answer that, Kevin..I say/demand again " Get the "Church of Jesus Christ" name off your temple Pagan!!! cd: Hey- that is Judge Moore to you buddy. You are the one that put a separation between Christianity and Mormonism-in you comment -and when I declare that by doing so this is Paganism you state crying . My Comment: Is it the Mormon in you doing such-or are you just plain mean? Your reply:So let me ask you, Dean..Is it the Christian in you doing such-or are you just plain mean? I called you a Mormon-to which you do not deny-You called me a Christian to wit I did not deny. By doing so you separated the two-and as receiving the first (Mormon) and tagging me with the second(Christian) you have clearly showed yourself to be non Christian-To be non-Christian is to be a Pagan. You DaveH are a Pagan.The fact that you do not follow the teaching of Jesus Christ is a deeper conformation of that point. Get over it the truth is not an Ad. Homein attack- or state a petition to impeach me.I am not Judge Dean -by your standards isn't that Ad. Homein attacking-better stop or I will have to go to the Moderator.Hey -Judge Moore Moderate this!Kevin Deegan wrote: Are you implying Dean called you such NAMES?Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Dave why are you trying to fuel dissection between the groups?DAVEH: Hwell, I hadn't thought about dissecting you guys, but it is a tempting thought you've given me! ;-) Is it the Mormon in you doing such-or are you just plain mean?DAVEH: LOL..Sometimes I think SPers are their own worst enemy! You have the power to push the button that bars me from TT, Dean. If you do such, I don't think your problems will all go with me. I've been called a pagan here, a snake in the grass, satan's messenger boyand I've been falsely accused of condoning violence against SPers. So let me ask you, Dean..Is it the Christian in you doing such-or are you just plain mea n?Dean Moore wrote: cd:Dave why are you trying to fuel dissection between the groups??Is it the Mormon in you doing such-or are you just plain mean?. - Original Message - F rom: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/7/2006 11:03:40 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose - Moderator comm
RE: [TruthTalk] Responding to Moderator Comments
David -Why is it against the rules to reply back to the moderator comment now-but just days ago you did the same and when I called you on it-I am called unfair and evil.If there is only one rule-Ad. Homein-is this a rule also? If so can the moderator support this rule? - Original Message - From: David Miller To: TruthTalk Sent: 3/9/2006 2:13:59 PM Subject: [TruthTalk] Responding to Moderator Comments Dear TruthTalk list members: If you see a post that has Moderator Comment or something similar, please do not reply to that post to the list. If you want to comment on it to the moderator, do so off list. If you think it appropriate to courtesy copy me or other TruthTalk members, please do so. David Miller
[TruthTalk] David Miller 2
cd: David -Why is it not an offence for DaveH to alter my words? I wrote in blue on a 10 scale-if you will read the below my words were altered by DaveH to red and farther down to a size 12 scale-this is an obvious attempt to make me sound harsh while Daveh kept his wording at common black size 10 scale? - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/9/2006 12:33:23 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose -ModeratorcommentADHOM* I called you a Mormon-to which you do not deny-You called me a Christian to wit I did not deny. By doing so you separated the two-and as receiving the first (Mormon) and tagging me with the second(Christian) you have clearly showed yourself to be non ChristianDAVEH: What kind of convoluted logic is that, Judge Dean??? Does any other TTer who understands what Dean said above, agree with his explanation?You DaveH are a Pagan.DAVEH: I respectfully disagree, Judge Dean. To me, your above comment is a blatant ad-hom, and I will request Judge Moore take the appropriate action if you do not wish to apologize.he fact that you do not follow the teaching of Jesus ChristDAVEH: Is that coming from Judge Dean, or Judge Moore?Get over it the truth is not an Ad. Homein attackDAVEH: Really?!?!?!?! Did you just make a new TT rule, Judge Moore? Or was that Judge Dean expressing his unfounded wishes?state a petition to impeach meDAVEH: Seems to me that you are doing a good job of it on your own.I am not Judge DeanDAVEH: Then am I to assume that every time you pass judgment, you are speaking as Judge Moore?by your standards isn't that Ad. Homein attackingDAVEH: ??? I thought we were playing the game by your standards, Judge Dean! Hence.Get over it the truth is not an Ad. Homein attack according to you.I will have to go to the ModeratorDAVEH: I've not had much luck with him, but I suspect he will listen to you. Are you implying Dean called you such NAMES?DAVEH: I'll let Judge Dean answer that, Kevin..I say/demand again " Get the "Church of Jesus Christ" name off your temple Pagan!!! cd: Hey- that is Judge Moore to you buddy. You are the one that put a separation between Christianity and Mormonism-in you comment -and when I declare that by doing so this is Paganism you state crying . My Comment: Is it the Mormon in you doing such-or are you just plain mean? Your reply:So let me ask you, Dean..Is it the Christian in you doing such-or are you just plain mean? I called you a Mormon-to which you do not deny-You called me a Christian to wit I did not deny. By doing so you separated the two-and as receiving the first (Mormon) and tagging me with the second(Christian) you have clearly showed yourself to be non Christian-To be non-Christian is to be a Pagan. You DaveH are a Pagan.The fact that you do not follow the teaching of Jesus Christ is a deeper conformation of that point. Get over it the truth is not an Ad. Homein attack- or state a petition to impeach me.I am not Judge Dean -by your standards isn't that Ad. Homein attacking-better stop or I will have to go to the Moderator.Hey -Judge Moore Moderate this!Kevin Deegan wrote: Are you implying Dean called you such NAMES?Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Dave why are you trying to fuel dissection between the groups?DAVEH: Hwell, I hadn't thought about dissecting you guys, but it is a tempting thought you've given me! ;-) Is it the Mormon in you doing such-or are you just plain mean?DAVEH: LOL..Sometimes I think SPers are their own worst enemy! You have the power to push the button that bars me from TT, Dean. If you do such, I don't think your problems will all go with me. I've been called a pagan here, a snake in the grass, satan's messenger boyand I've been falsely accused of condoning violence against SPers. So let me ask you, Dean..Is it the Christian in you doing such-or are you just plain mea n?Dean Moore wrote: cd:Dave why are you trying to fuel dissection between the groups??Is it the Mormon in you doing such-or are you just plain mean?. - Original Message - F rom: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/7/2006 11:03:40 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose - Moderator commentADHOM* The latter. - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 07, 2006 10:10 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose - Moderator comment ADHOM* IFO would not have such an assessment of anyone on TT.DAVEH: Is that is because you do not consider yourself a protected friend of the moderator and fear reprisal, Lance .or is it because you have a measure of respect for TT rules and other TTers?Lance Muir wrote: So Kevin, at least I know where we stand. Thanks for the clarity in your judgment. IFO woul
[TruthTalk] David Miller
cd: Tell me David-by your standards- why isn't this an Ad. Homein attack towards me from DaveH?? - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/9/2006 12:34:10 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? That is Judge Moore to you buddy!!DAVEH: I have a hard time figuring out which Judge I'm dealing with, as he seems to speak from both sides of his mouth. :-\ DAVEH: I can understand you saying that about Lance, Kevin.but, why did you include Judge Dean in that rant? cd: Hey-No fair-Where is the moderator?Ad. HOM!- Ad. Homein attack!! Someone get the Moderator-That is Judge Moore to you buddy!!-- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk?
- Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/9/2006 4:42:22 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? No Dean, not chapter but, an entire book. Thessalonians? cd: OK you go first Lance-and I am right behind you. - Original Message ----- From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 08, 2006 17:48 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/8/2006 5:34:32 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? It'd appear that we do all speak English, Dean. Now, as everyone else has taken, IMO a rather unconvincing, run at the fg, may I ask YOU, Dean...Rather than proof-texting (the exceptions having been Bill, David and John), are you able to open say the gospel of John or the book of Ephesians and, thereafter explain it in it's entirety without difficulty for either yourself or any believer? If yes then, please demonstrate. If no then, qualify your statement (what you say) in line with what you can actually do. cd: Sure Chapter are we speaking of? Fire away. - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 07, 2006 18:28 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/7/2006 5:54:36 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? THE truth to read MY truth or, truth as I interpret it. How I read the words that are spoken-We all do speak English right? - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 06, 2006 18:13 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? Moderator: No-The truth is not Ad. Hom attacks if one can prove his point to a reasonable conclusion(whose conclusion? Why mine decision of course)-Please explanation after my coming chastisement from David.But don't jump the gun and attack me as he seems to be hesitating(maybe he found love for me after all.)-and if wrong you will still be dealing with a moderator-that will not take any crap:-) - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/5/2006 12:52:42 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? DAVEH: Dean, does this not qualify as an ad-hom?Dean Moore wrote: cd: or lose all creditability as Lance had done in my opinion of this matter. -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk?
- Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/9/2006 4:37:44 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? 1. 'Those principles', Dean? Which? 2. I don't mind YOU being moderator, Dean. You do, IMO, change horses in midstream a lot but, I can adjust. 3. I don't think of you as 'mean' Kevin. I believe you're doing the best with what you've got. What more can one ask of one? 4. As to 'refusing so much of the Bible' Dean, I'm attempting to be patient with someone who misinterprets so much of it yet, moderates TT. cd: You disagree with what I teach and offer no other intrepretion-I don't know but it does seem strange to me Lance-something is wrong with that. thanks for the, ATY, beneficient thoughts.. - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 08, 2006 17:36 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/8/2006 5:23:10 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? DH:TT has a NEW POPE! You're just going to have to adjust. IMO your mystification re:SP types ain't a mystery. Preach the (their) gospel (their doctrine) by any means whatsoever. As they see it the end justifies the means. Though you and I are most assuredly not of one mind as to Jesus yet, we are seen as occupying the same camp. That camp is the camp of the lost/damned/bound for hell. I do see why they do what they do. This is the same sort of logic employed by their commander in chief over the Middle East. cd: But Lance you said that it was fair earlier to moderate using those principles-and even earlier that that you said that you were glad I was moderator-now only hatred exists? What happened? Pope is a little much-How about Bishop Moderator-or better yet Moderator Bishop-nay.. still doesn't work..O' well we can keep trying ?The lost comments are correct Lance-This is not meant to be mean to you but to help you understand-One cannot refuse as much of the Bible as you do and be one of God's-it doesn't work that way Lance-I would much rather say this now and get you to understand the principle behind my words than to be there when God say's "depart from me". At that time it will then be too late-I fear that will happen to you. - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 08, 2006 02:03 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? to clear the confusion one should be able to prove their charge they make against others. DAVEH: That's what I asked you to do when you made a false accusation about me (condoning violence) a few months back. Your response was that you didn't know how to use the archives, and that is was my responsibility to prove that I didn't say something that I didn't say. Which is logically illogical.So what is you better idea?DAVEH: Practice what you preach.By the way I can change the rules if there is good reason to do so-but you cannot.DAVEH: Ahhh..May I assume this is your perception of fairness?!?!?! When I joined TT, it was proudly proclaimed there was only one rule in TT. It seems several moderators have put that fallacy to rest.you show no hesita tion provoking me-Why is that?DAVEH: I'm not sure, Dean. I find SPers to be cut from a different bolt of cloth. It seems like some SPers live in a different world, where they are in constant battle with everybody, including some that at first appear to be on their side of the fence. Other than the few Spers I've found on TT, I really don't have much experience with them, so I find how they think and operate to be rather interesting. (e.g., Waving underwear in the faces of those they want to convert.) To me it seems such a strange way to sell a product, so to speak. Yet some SPers seem (from my perspective) to lack a measure of ___(I'll leave it for the reader to fill in the word), which to me seems at odds with their mission statement. So I've got to wonder what makes them tickjust what is it that makes SPers the way they are. I don't know if that makes much sense, Dean. It's late and I suppose I'm just rambling onwith the way things are going He should be able to read it here in a short amount of time.DAVEH: ??? What's that mean, Dean? Are you going to invite the Bishop of TT to return? The truth is not Ad. Hom attacks if one can prove his point to a reasonable conclusion(whose conclusion? Why mine decision of course)DAVEH: Did the rules change, Dean? Are the rules being modified on the fly to suit the needs of the moderator??? As a moderator, is that what you consider to be fair? Moderator: No, DaveH but there are many levels of Ad. H
[TruthTalk] Moderator
Moderator: Gary I am still waiting for your proof that Judy is a liar if not it is Ad. Hom and an apology is in order or 3 days suspension. - Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/9/2006 1:39:03 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] An Offensive Gospel. ..you realize the matron sf's morality is much more mated to j-dams than g-dams, Bro--she's known t'be Xtremely kNowledgable about the sensitivities & nuances of our newcuular nomenclature On Wed, 8 Mar 2006 23:29:47 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..i bet the matron of the shields family prefers j to g; like the j in jumbo is much more palatable than the g in gumbo (ever heard of mumbo gumbo, Bro? :) On Wed, 8 Mar 2006 23:23:44 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..in originality? On Wed, 8 Mar 2006 23:16:16 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..who put the g in gibberish? On Wed, 8 Mar 2006 21:31:13 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: enlighten the matron of the shields family to what yer g word iz, Bro On Wed, 8 Mar 2006 22:20:44 -0600 "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Mumbo jumbo. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin DeeganSent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 9:20 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] An Offensive Gospel. Mainly gibberish with an M||
Re: [TruthTalk] ***************Respose -ModeratorcommentADHOM*************
- Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/9/2006 7:06:33 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose -ModeratorcommentADHOM* If there's one thing the two 'ranters' would never precipitate from me, it'd be tears, Dean. From someone who quotes 1 Thess 4:13 and, thereafter says 'case closed', I fear proof, Dean, is a concept largely unknown to you. cd: From past experiences I believe it is conceivable that you would side with Satan himself if he took a stance against me-come to think about it- I thing this may already have happened. - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 09, 2006 07:00 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose -ModeratorcommentADHOM* - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/9/2006 6:43:01 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose -ModeratorcommentADHOM* NO, NO, NO! YOUR TRUTH, DEAN, is perceived by YOU absent any ad hom component. I'm with DH on this one as it (YOUR TRUTH - NOT ALWAYS SYNONYMOUS WITH THE TRUTH) is intrinsically ad hom. (IMO of course) cd:I wouldn't expect you to be on any other side Lance.I have requested that Moderator - Judge Moore intervene on this issue Lance.But if you want to speak of fairness why didn't you have to prove you point by calling Kevin names and then later Kevin had to prove his point for calling you a false Prophet?Should I get the Judge Moore to make you prove your point for each one of the names you called Kevin?So stop your crying. - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 09, 2006 06:30 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose - ModeratorcommentADHOM* - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/9/2006 3:08:05 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose - ModeratorcommentADHOM* Are you implying Dean called you such NAMES?DAVEH: I'll let Judge Dean answer that, Kevin..I say/demand again " Get the "Church of Jesus Christ" name off your temple Pagan!!! cd: Hey- that is Judge Moore to you buddy. You are the one that put a separation between Christianity and Mormonism-in you comment -and when I declare that by doing so this is Paganism you state crying . My Comment: Is it the Mormon in you doing such-or are you just plain mean? Your reply:So let me ask you, Dean..Is it the Christian in you doing such-or are you just plain mean? I called you a Mormon-to which you do not deny-You called me a Christian to wit I did not deny. By doing so you separated the two-and as receiving the first (Mormon) and tagging me with the second(Christian) you have clearly showed yourself to be non Christian-To be non-Christian is to be a Pagan. You DaveH are a Pagan.The fact that you do not follow the teaching of Jesus Christ is a deeper conformation of that point. Get over it the truth is not an Ad. Homein attack- or state a petition to impeach me.I am not Judge Dean -by your standards isn't that Ad. Homein attacking-better stop or I will have to go to the Moderator.Hey -Judge Moore Moderate this!Kevin Deegan wrote: Are you implying Dean called you such NAMES?Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Dave why are you trying to fuel dissection between the groups?DAVEH: Hwell, I hadn't thought about dissecting you guys, but it is a tempting thought you've given me! ;-) Is it the Mormon in you doing such-or are you just plain mean?DAVEH: LOL..Sometimes I think SPers are their own worst enemy! You have the power to push the button that bars me from TT, Dean. If you do such, I don't think your problems will all go with me. I've been called a pagan here, a snake in the grass, satan's messenger boyand I've been falsely accused of condoning violence against SPers. So let me ask you, Dean..Is it the Christian in you doing such-or are you just plain mea n?Dean Moore wrote: cd:Dave why are you trying to fuel dissection between the groups??Is it the Mormon in you doing such-or are you just plain mean?. - Original Message - F rom: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/7/2006 11:03:40 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose - Moderator commentADHOM* The latter. - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 07, 2006 10:10 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose - Moderator comment ADHOM* IFO would not have such an assessment of anyone on TT.DAVEH: Is that is because you do not consider yourself a protected friend of the moderator and fear reprisal, Lance .or is it because you have a measure of respect for TT rules and
Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] spirit of Hinn
- Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/9/2006 3:58:51 AM Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] spirit of Hinn gave us copies to tear up in from of the Temple-but we didn't do so.DAVEH: Thank you for that measure of respect, Dean. cd: That wasn't not done out of respect. I just don't like being set up/used by Mormons.He told us that Mormons loved the present Prophet (so-called) more then they loved J. Smith-then gave us the pictures then instructed us to tear them up in front of the Temple. Sure sounded like a set up to me? You agree DaveH? Would a Mormon High Priest do such?I guess I will Get DavH off you backDAVEH: ??? Does that mean you have your finger on the EXECUTE DavH button, Judge Dean? Has Kevin been complaining about me bothering him lately? I don't recall saying anything to him recently that would be disrespectful..But if he wants me gone, it is within your power to carry out his wishes. cd: Dave you need to learn to separate the Moderator "Judge More" from Dean Moore. All I meant was that we are headed to our usual take no prisoners debate. Group Please keep off the Ad. Hom. grass so I can give the "Provoker" some attentionDAVEH: How considerate of you, Judge Dean! I guess I should fee privileged that you are willing to devote all your attention to me to the exclusion of other TTers. It does seem a bit selfish though.as you seem to want to smoke all the Ad. Hom. grass yourself!!! Just don't inhale though, as you might choke on it.. =-O cd: Sound like you also like a good fight-You admitted to provocking me and I am answering your caslling out and I am standing here Mormon-lets get on with it Pagan.Dean Moore wrote: cd: Ouch:-) Hey I have that picture in mutli's-The High Priest that Ruben hung out (what was his name?)with gave us copies to tear up in from of the Temple-but we didn't do so. Kevin I guess I will Get DavH off you back for a while as soon as David shows of-or better yet I might as well get stated on that:-)So I will be busy for a while-Group Please keep off the Ad. Hom. grass so I can give the "Provoker" some attention. -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
Re: [TruthTalk] ***************Respose -ModeratorcommentADHOM*************
- Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/9/2006 6:43:01 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose -ModeratorcommentADHOM* NO, NO, NO! YOUR TRUTH, DEAN, is perceived by YOU absent any ad hom component. I'm with DH on this one as it (YOUR TRUTH - NOT ALWAYS SYNONYMOUS WITH THE TRUTH) is intrinsically ad hom. (IMO of course) cd:I wouldn't expect you to be on any other side Lance.I have requested that Moderator - Judge Moore intervene on this issue Lance.But if you want to speak of fairness why didn't you have to prove you point by calling Kevin names and then later Kevin had to prove his point for calling you a false Prophet?Should I get the Judge Moore to make you prove your point for each one of the names you called Kevin?So stop your crying. - Original Message ----- From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 09, 2006 06:30 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose - ModeratorcommentADHOM* - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/9/2006 3:08:05 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose - ModeratorcommentADHOM* Are you implying Dean called you such NAMES?DAVEH: I'll let Judge Dean answer that, Kevin..I say/demand again " Get the "Church of Jesus Christ" name off your temple Pagan!!! cd: Hey- that is Judge Moore to you buddy. You are the one that put a separation between Christianity and Mormonism-in you comment -and when I declare that by doing so this is Paganism you state crying . My Comment: Is it the Mormon in you doing such-or are you just plain mean? Your reply:So let me ask you, Dean..Is it the Christian in you doing such-or are you just plain mean? I called you a Mormon-to which you do not deny-You called me a Christian to wit I did not deny. By doing so you separated the two-and as receiving the first (Mormon) and tagging me with the second(Christian) you have clearly showed yourself to be non Christian-To be non-Christian is to be a Pagan. You DaveH are a Pagan.The fact that you do not follow the teaching of Jesus Christ is a deeper conformation of that point. Get over it the truth is not an Ad. Homein attack- or state a petition to impeach me.I am not Judge Dean -by your standards isn't that Ad. Homein attacking-better stop or I will have to go to the Moderator.Hey -Judge Moore Moderate this!Kevin Deegan wrote: Are you implying Dean called you such NAMES?Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Dave why are you trying to fuel dissection between the groups?DAVEH: Hwell, I hadn't thought about dissecting you guys, but it is a tempting thought you've given me! ;-) Is it the Mormon in you doing such-or are you just plain mean?DAVEH: LOL..Sometimes I think SPers are their own worst enemy! You have the power to push the button that bars me from TT, Dean. If you do such, I don't think your problems will all go with me. I've been called a pagan here, a snake in the grass, satan's messenger boyand I've been falsely accused of condoning violence against SPers. So let me ask you, Dean..Is it the Christian in you doing such-or are you just plain mea n?Dean Moore wrote: cd:Dave why are you trying to fuel dissection between the groups??Is it the Mormon in you doing such-or are you just plain mean?. - Original Message - F rom: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/7/2006 11:03:40 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose - Moderator commentADHOM* The latter. - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 07, 2006 10:10 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose - Moderator comment ADHOM* IFO would not have such an assessment of anyone on TT.DAVEH: Is that is because you do not consider yourself a protected friend of the moderator and fear reprisal, Lance .or is it because you have a measure of respect for TT rules and other TTers?Lance Muir wrote: So Kevin, at least I know where we stand. Thanks for the clarity in your judgment. IFO would not have such an assessment of anyone on TT. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 07, 2006 09:17 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose - Moderator comment ADHOM* This is why I call you UNREGENERATE/LOST Lost in sin dull of hearing of God's word not mine.Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: ROTFLOL No you are in Sin 'cause YOU bore false witness. So there! Tak e that! Nya nya!! - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 07, 2006 07:43 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose - Moderator comment ADHOM* You are in SIN you bore false witn
Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk?
- Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/9/2006 3:30:12 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? DAVEH: Is that a Mormon girl trying to give you a karate chop, Dean?!?!?! ;-) cd: Cute-No Dave she is a Pagan also. Did the artical come thru with the picture? -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
Re: [TruthTalk] ***************Respose - ModeratorcommentADHOM*************
- Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/9/2006 3:08:05 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose - ModeratorcommentADHOM* Are you implying Dean called you such NAMES?DAVEH: I'll let Judge Dean answer that, Kevin..I say/demand again " Get the "Church of Jesus Christ" name off your temple Pagan!!! cd: Hey- that is Judge Moore to you buddy. You are the one that put a separation between Christianity and Mormonism-in you comment -and when I declare that by doing so this is Paganism you state crying . My Comment: Is it the Mormon in you doing such-or are you just plain mean? Your reply:So let me ask you, Dean..Is it the Christian in you doing such-or are you just plain mean? I called you a Mormon-to which you do not deny-You called me a Christian to wit I did not deny. By doing so you separated the two-and as receiving the first (Mormon) and tagging me with the second(Christian) you have clearly showed yourself to be non Christian-To be non-Christian is to be a Pagan. You DaveH are a Pagan.The fact that you do not follow the teaching of Jesus Christ is a deeper conformation of that point. Get over it the truth is not an Ad. Homein attack- or state a petition to impeach me.I am not Judge Dean -by your standards isn't that Ad. Homein attacking-better stop or I will have to go to the Moderator.Hey -Judge Moore Moderate this!Kevin Deegan wrote: Are you implying Dean called you such NAMES?Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Dave why are you trying to fuel dissection between the groups?DAVEH: Hwell, I hadn't thought about dissecting you guys, but it is a tempting thought you've given me! ;-) Is it the Mormon in you doing such-or are you just plain mean?DAVEH: LOL..Sometimes I think SPers are their own worst enemy! You have the power to push the button that bars me from TT, Dean. If you do such, I don't think your problems will all go with me. I've been called a pagan here, a snake in the grass, satan's messenger boyand I've been falsely accused of condoning violence against SPers. So let me ask you, Dean..Is it the Christian in you doing such-or are you just plain mea n?Dean Moore wrote: cd:Dave why are you trying to fuel dissection between the groups??Is it the Mormon in you doing such-or are you just plain mean?. - Original Message - F rom: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/7/2006 11:03:40 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose - Moderator commentADHOM* The latter. - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 07, 2006 10:10 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose - Moderator comment ADHOM* IFO would not have such an assessment of anyone on TT.DAVEH: Is that is because you do not consider yourself a protected friend of the moderator and fear reprisal, Lance .or is it because you have a measure of respect for TT rules and other TTers?Lance Muir wrote: So Kevin, at least I know where we stand. Thanks for the clarity in your judgment. IFO would not have such an assessment of anyone on TT. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 07, 2006 09:17 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose - Moderator comment ADHOM* This is why I call you UNREGENERATE/LOST Lost in sin dull of hearing of God's word not mine.Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: ROTFLOL No you are in Sin 'cause YOU bore false witness. So there! Tak e that! Nya nya!! - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 07, 2006 07:43 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose - Moderator comment ADHOM* You are in SIN you bore false witness Du 19:16 If a false witness rise up against any man to testify against him that which is wrong; Then both the men, between whom the controversy is, shall stand before the LORD, before the priests and the judges, which shall be in those days; And the judges shall make diligent inquisition: and, behold, if the witness be a false witness, and hath testified falsely against his brother; Then shall ye do unto him, as he had thought to have done unto his brother: so shalt thou put the evil away from among you. Then you added SIN to SIN in refusing to answer questions about such False testimonyLeviticus 5:1. And if a soul sin, and hear the voice of swearing, and is a witness, whether he hath seen or known of it; if he do not utter it, then he shall bear his iniquity. Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Point proven?? Like I said, I stay for the humour. - Original Message - < DIV style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; moz-background
Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk?
- Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/9/2006 1:57:44 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? DAVEH: I can understand you saying that about Lance, Kevin.but, why did you include Judge Dean in that rant? cd: Hey-No fair-Where is the moderator?Ad. HOM!- Ad. Homein attack!! Someone get the Moderator-That is Judge Moore to you buddy!!
Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk?
- Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/8/2006 10:02:55 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? Just make sure you are on THE roll up yonder!cd: cd: I am as fear of God still exists with me.Dean Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/8/2006 6:59:22 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? Somehow ppl think you are a serious fanatic if you wear a sandwich board! cd:I wonder where they ever got that idea? Have you been wearing one?;-) I'm on a roll:-)Dean Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/8/2006 8:12:14 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? Some of that which you said sounds OK, Judy. Look, if they want to present themselves as 'sandwich board ppl' ssup to them. Some SEE THEMSELVES as 'fools for Christ' while some are seen as just...well you know.. cd: Just another conformation that you need what you think you already have Lance? 1Co 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And what is wrong with Sandwich signs: Yahoo! MailBring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. Yahoo! MailBring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk?
- Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/8/2006 6:59:22 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? Somehow ppl think you are a serious fanatic if you wear a sandwich board! cd:I wonder where they ever got that idea? Have you been wearing one?;-) I'm on a roll:-)Dean Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/8/2006 8:12:14 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? Some of that which you said sounds OK, Judy. Look, if they want to present themselves as 'sandwich board ppl' ssup to them. Some SEE THEMSELVES as 'fools for Christ' while some are seen as just...well you know.. cd: Just another conformation that you need what you think you already have Lance? 1Co 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And what is wrong with Sandwich signs: Yahoo! MailBring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
Re: [TruthTalk] ***************Respose - ModeratorcommentADHOM*************
- Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/8/2006 2:17:54 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose - ModeratorcommentADHOM* Dave why are you trying to fuel dissection between the groups?DAVEH: Hwell, I hadn't thought about dissecting you guys, but it is a tempting thought you've given me! ;-) cd: Hey, but fair Dave? You try monitoring 150 odd posting and then spell discretion?Is it the Mormon in you doing such-or are you just plain mean?DAVEH: LOL..Sometimes I think SPers are their own worst enemy! You have the power to push the button that bars me from TT, Dean. If you do such, I don't think your problems will all go with me. I've been called a pagan here, a snake in the grass, satan's messenger boyand I've been falsely accused of condoning violence against SPers. So let me ask you, Dean..Is it the Christian in you doing such-or are you just plain mean? cd: O BIG SLIP UP DAVE-You just acknowledged that Mormons are not Christians for the first time-That means you were lying all the other times you made the claim to be a Christian-So I say/demand again " Get the "Church of Jesus Christ" name off your temple Pagan!!!" BTW prove to me that your were called-"A snake in the grass" and "satans messenger boy-I suspect you may be right about the word"Pagan".Dean Moore wrote: cd:Dave why are you trying to fuel dissection between the groups??Is it the Mormon in you doing such-or are you just plain mean?.
Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk?
- Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/8/2006 2:04:08 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? to clear the confusion one should be able to prove their charge they make against others. DAVEH: That's what I asked you to do when you made a false accusation about me (condoning violence) a few months back. Your response was that you didn't know how to use the archives, and that is was my responsibility to prove that I didn't say something that I didn't say. Which is logically illogical. cd: You claimed it to be false I do not-but if I remember correctly you stated at that time that you understood why I was having difficultly finding the posting in the archives because you also tried the search to no avail-Has that you made statement changed?Maybe the owner of TTwould stop being so cheap and get us a better search engine-with word search?So what is you better idea?DAVEH: Practice what you preach. cd: When have I done otherwise? Posting please?By the way I can change the rules if there is good reason to do so-but you cannot.DAVEH: Ahhh..May I assume this is your perception of fairness?!?!?! cd: Yes the fair chance everyone else has who is moderator-I noticed you have never been asked-seems your fairness is the one in question here not mine?Also sound like a jealously issue on your part-Be honest-get a mirror and tell me if your face is red-even now? When I joined TT, it was proudly proclaimed there was only one rule in TT. It seems several moderators have put that fallacy to rest. cd: The Ad. Hom rule does exist I am only pin pointing it's preamters.If I applied the rules as it is stared I would have to put almost everyone off this site-starting with you-So I am trying to keep you and your friends on this site and still apply the rule that I must apply to do my job? Do You Have Any Helpful Idea's?you show no hesitation provoking me-Why is that?DAVEH: I'm not sure, Dean. I find SPers to be cut from a different bolt of cloth. It seems like some SPers live in a different world, where they are in constant battle with everybody, including some that at first appear to be on their side of the fence. cd: That is because you lack understanding in the gospel Dave-that you refuse to accept.It is a tool used to create conformity to God's will as stated in the King James Bible. ;-) Kevin. Other than the few Spers I've found on TT, I really don't have much experience with them, so I find how they think and operate to be rather interesting. (e.g., Waving underwear in the faces of those they want to convert.) To me it seems such a strange way to sell a product, so to speak. cd: Maybe you do not accept the idea that they are not always trying to sell something-In the underware situation they are holding up a part used for false teaching and declaring it to be such-as a warning from God for repentance. The more you complain about this and use it against the believers the deeper you are getting into offending God Dave-receive the Bible/repent of the underware thingy and Mormonism and all will be well-If you have worn them more than 3/4 hours you have defiled them with human waste anyway (1/2 hours if you are an old man). Yet some SPers seem (from my perspective) to lack a measure of ___(I'll leave it for the reader to fill in the word), which to me seems at odds with their mission statement. So I've got to wonder what makes them tickjust what is it that makes SPers the way they are. I don't know if that makes much sense, Dean. It's late and I suppose I'm just rambling on cd: You are right you do not make much sense Dave: Isa 58:1 Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and show my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins. with the way things are going He should be able to read it here in a short amount of time.DAVEH: ??? What's that mean, Dean? Are you going to invite the Bishop of TT to return? cd: John is back on now Dave.
Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk?
- Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/8/2006 8:12:14 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? Some of that which you said sounds OK, Judy. Look, if they want to present themselves as 'sandwich board ppl' ssup to them. Some SEE THEMSELVES as 'fools for Christ' while some are seen as just...well you know.. cd: Just another conformation that you need what you think you already have Lance? 1Co 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And what is wrong with Sandwich signs: <>
Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] spirit of Hinn
cd: Ouch:-) Hey I have that picture in mutli's-The High Priest that Ruben hung out (what was his name?)with gave us copies to tear up in from of the Temple-but we didn't do so. Kevin I guess I will Get DavH off you back for a while as soon as David shows of-or better yet I might as well get stated on that:-)So I will be busy for a while-Group Please keep off the Ad. Hom. grass so I can give the "Provoker" some attention. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/8/2006 7:20:00 AM Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] spirit of Hinn THE other? "another" see dictionary for distinction or do you want more names? Gordon B Hinckley Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Who, pray tell, is the 'other snake handler'? - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 08, 2006 06:58 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] spirit of Hinn Just another snake handler and again the proof is in the pudding! he who has ears http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/tbn.htmLance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: IFF he (BH) did say that then, he is. I'd like to hear from DM on this one. He has come to Hinn's defence often. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 08, 2006 06:41 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] spirit of Hinn http://www.cultlink.com/ar/hinnfalse.htm benny is a False prophet in 1989 at Orlando Christian Center he prohesied: "The Lord also tells me to tell you in mid 90s -- about '94 or '95, no later than that -- God will destroy the homosexual community of America . . . He will destroy it with fire." "The Spirit of God tells me -- an earthquake will hit the East Coast of America and destroy much in the 90s." "The Spirit tells me -- Fidel Castro will die in the 90s. . . Holy Spirit just said to me, it'll be worse than any death you can imagine." __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! MailBring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! MailBring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. Yahoo! MailBring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk?
- Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/8/2006 5:34:32 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? It'd appear that we do all speak English, Dean. Now, as everyone else has taken, IMO a rather unconvincing, run at the fg, may I ask YOU, Dean...Rather than proof-texting (the exceptions having been Bill, David and John), are you able to open say the gospel of John or the book of Ephesians and, thereafter explain it in it's entirety without difficulty for either yourself or any believer? If yes then, please demonstrate. If no then, qualify your statement (what you say) in line with what you can actually do. cd: Sure Chapter are we speaking of? Fire away. - Original Message ----- From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 07, 2006 18:28 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/7/2006 5:54:36 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? THE truth to read MY truth or, truth as I interpret it. How I read the words that are spoken-We all do speak English right? - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 06, 2006 18:13 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? Moderator: No-The truth is not Ad. Hom attacks if one can prove his point to a reasonable conclusion(whose conclusion? Why mine decision of course)-Please explanation after my coming chastisement from David.But don't jump the gun and attack me as he seems to be hesitating(maybe he found love for me after all.)-and if wrong you will still be dealing with a moderator-that will not take any crap:-) - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/5/2006 12:52:42 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? DAVEH: Dean, does this not qualify as an ad-hom?Dean Moore wrote: cd: or lose all creditability as Lance had done in my opinion of this matter. -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk?
- Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/8/2006 5:33:55 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? How can that (my interpretation implies Dean) be wrong? cd: Because your interpretation disallows large sections of the Bible Lance that are included in my understanding. Where does one go from here? Your honor, my client pleads insanity. cd: That's it Judge Moore-Thank you Lance.Kinda reminds me of the Sylvester Stallion movie" Judge Dredd" or something like that. Hence forth that's what it will be-"Judge Moore" at your service:-) - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 07, 2006 18:36 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/7/2006 6:04:30 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? Follow your conscience, Dean. Sometimes your conscience is directed by God but, sometimes cd: I do not preach another conscience Lance-I preach the written word of God -from the Bible itself-again words have meaning and it is written in English .How can that be wrong? - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 06, 2006 20:56 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? cd: Is speaking of the greatness if Christ "objective" to you Lance? That is what I we do. Would you like to come and hear me speak-or Kevin? He is Just across the falls and I will meet you there? We only encourage others to come to Jesus-why are we wrong to do so? - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/6/2006 12:23:25 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? Me too, Dave. When TRUELY OBJECTIONABLE BEHAVIOUR is objected to (by 'acting out') these persons occasionally do seem surprised. - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 06, 2006 10:43 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? DAVEH: OK Dean, I understand your sensitivity to such and will respond without using the words you find objectionable. I would like to continue to discuss this, as I find it interesting to see how SPers think. I am curious as to why one would still show up on somebody's doorstep when an objectionable topic is mentioned rather than discuss it with them via the phone or email? What is to be accomplished by a personal visit? Most folks would understand such a visit to be a physical threat, even though it could be claimed that the offended has a constitutional right to confront the offender. The reason I ask this is because it seems to me that many SPers seemed surprised that they are physically attacked when confronting sinners on the streets. Yet they feel compelled to stare the jaws of death (so to speak) in the mouth. Is this a martyr complex of sorts? Does it give SPers confidence if they are persecuted for the Lord's sake ? I suppose an argument can be made that if one dies while in the service of the Lord, it would be a feather in the cap of the persecuted while at the same time driving the persecutor even deeper into hell. To me that seems like rather odd logic, considering that the SPer (or guy showing up on the doorstep) is somewhat a catalyst in this scenario. IOWIs a SPer guilty of promoting a problem when he uses his constitutionally guaranteed free speech to aggravate a situation that can and will likely turn to violence?Dean Moore wrote: Moderator: Wouldn't have to show up in Portland DaveH-all I would have to do is click a button and my problem is solved and that is exactly what I going to do the next time you use the words-** in the combination that you used them below. Discussion over-warning given! - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/5/2006 12:52:41 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? DAVEH: Dean, from what you said previously about the oneness of husband and wife, if I were to ask you about ,, you would take that as a personal attack on ** and would then presume it to be a personal attack on you as well, and then proceed to come to Portland and show up on my doorstep.is that correct? Wouldn't it be smarter just to say the same thing to me via email or a phone call, rather than show up on my doorstep? What would be accomplished by coming to Portland? If I were then to assume you are on my doorstep for a reason other than an amicable discussion, and felt my life was being threatened by your presence on my doorstep, I would probably not answer the door. Wouldn't that just frustrate your reason for going to all that effort, cost, ti
Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk?
urse)-Please explanation after my coming chastisement from David.But don't jump the gun and attack me as he seems to be hesitating(maybe he found love for me after all.)-and if wrong you will still be dealing with a moderator-that will not take any crap:-) Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? DAVEH: Dean, does this not qualify as an ad-hom?Dean Moore wrote: cd: or lose all creditability as Lance had done in my opinion of this matter. -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.-- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
RE: [TruthTalk] What a Great Sign!!!]Just read think
Thanks Izzy-That is funny:-) > [Original Message] > From: ShieldsFamily <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: ShieldsFamily <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 3/7/2006 4:15:15 PM > Subject: [TruthTalk] What a Great Sign!!!]Just read think > > > > > > > > An actual sign in Dallas! > > > > > > -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] ***************Respose - Moderator commentADHOM*************
cd:Dave why are you trying to fuel dissection between the groups??Is it the Mormon in you doing such-or are you just plain mean?. - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/7/2006 11:03:40 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose - Moderator commentADHOM* The latter. - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 07, 2006 10:10 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose - Moderator comment ADHOM* IFO would not have such an assessment of anyone on TT.DAVEH: Is that is because you do not consider yourself a protected friend of the moderator and fear reprisal, Lance.or is it because you have a measure of respect for TT rules and other TTers?Lance Muir wrote: So Kevin, at least I know where we stand. Thanks for the clarity in your judgment. IFO would not have such an assessment of anyone on TT. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 07, 2006 09:17 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose - Moderator comment ADHOM* This is why I call you UNREGENERATE/LOST Lost in sin dull of hearing of God's word not mine.Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: ROTFLOL No you are in Sin 'cause YOU bore false witness. So there! Take that! Nya nya!! - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 07, 2006 07:43 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose - Moderator comment ADHOM* You are in SIN you bore false witness Du 19:16 If a false witness rise up against any man to testify against him that which is wrong; Then both the men, between whom the controversy is, shall stand before the LORD, before the priests and the judges, which shall be in those days; And the judges shall make diligent inquisition: and, behold, if the witness be a false witness, and hath testified falsely against his brother; Then shall ye do unto him, as he had thought to have done unto his brother: so shalt thou put the evil away from among you. Then you added SIN to SIN in refusing to answer questions about such False testimonyLeviticus 5:1. And if a soul sin, and hear the voice of swearing, and is a witness, whether he hath seen or known of it; if he do not utter it, then he shall bear his iniquity. Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Point proven?? Like I said, I stay for the humour. - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 06, 2006 21:05 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] ***Respose - Moderator comment ADHOM* Moderator: Point proven Kevin-Thank you-There is truth here in what you say.Carry on . - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/6/2006 8:55:37 PM Subject: [TruthTalk] ***Respose - Moderator comment ADHOM* Moderator: Kevin can you prove this to be true about Lance? Noun: false witness A person who deliberately gives false testimony Ex 20:16 thou shalt not bear false witness against your neighbor Read the post from DH about then lance's response, he says "Me too, Dave. When TRUELY OBJECTIONABLE BEHAVIOUR is objected to (by 'acting out') these persons occasionally do seem surprised." Does repeating stories about which one was not a witness qualify for bearing FALSE WITNESS? IF YOU WANT TO BE JUDGE then according to DU 19 you need to make DILIGENT INQUIRY INTO THE MATTER! This is only FAIR and according to God's word it is also RIGHT! Du 19:16 If a false witness rise up against any man to testify against him that which is wrong; Then both the men, between whom the controversy is, shall stand before the LORD, before the priests and the judges, which shall be in those days; And the judges shall make diligent inquisition: and, behold, if the witness be a false witness, and hath testified falsely against his brother; Then shall ye do unto him, as he had thought to have done unto his brother: so shalt thou put the evil away from among you. Let me present some FACTS for your consideration: 1) Let me remind you I was an EYE WITNESS to the events. Du 19:15 One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established. It is my Person that has been the victim of the attack. In the SPIRIT of fair play I posted additional questions to defend my good name that has been wrongly DEFAMED. Salt Lake City is a place to which Lance probably has never set foot let alone during our preaching activities there. In fact he has never seen me preach PERIOD. So how could he be a witness, other than a false? DH was not a witness either. Neither DH nor Lance qualify as a eye witness nor a single witness. according to DU 19:1
Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk?
- Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/7/2006 10:02:24 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? The truth is not Ad. Hom attacks if one can prove his point to a reasonable conclusion(whose conclusion? Why mine decision of course)DAVEH: Did the rules change, Dean? Are the rules being modified on the fly to suit the needs of the moderator??? As a moderator, is that what you consider to be fair? Moderator: No, DaveH but there are many levels of Ad. Hom attacking going on here so to clear the confusion one should be able to prove their charge they make against others. One should not knock an idea unless one can offer a better one or lose credibility-So what is you better idea?I am all ears. By the way I can change the rules if there is good reason to do so-but you cannot.(maybe he found love for me after all.)DAVEH: We all love you, Dean. I'm just not sure we all can tolerate, let alone survive, you! Moderator: For someone who expresses concerns about surviving me-you show no hesitation provoking me-Why is that? Also love a little harder as it isn't quite coming through my computer Dave. (I'll copy this to John, as he may appreciate the irony in it.) Moderator : Just save it-with the way things are going He should be able to read it here in a short amount of time.Dean Moore wrote: Moderator: No-The truth is not Ad. Hom attacks if one can prove his point to a reasonable conclusion(whose conclusion? Why mine decision of course)-Please explanation after my coming chastisement from David.But don't jump the gun and attack me as he seems to be hesitating(maybe he found love for me after all.)-and if wrong you will still be dealing with a moderator-that will not take any crap:-) Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? DAVEH: Dean, does this not qualify as an ad-hom?Dean Moore wrote: cd: or lose all creditability as Lance had done in my opinion of this matter. -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk?
- Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/7/2006 6:04:30 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? Follow your conscience, Dean. Sometimes your conscience is directed by God but, sometimes cd: I do not preach another conscience Lance-I preach the written word of God -from the Bible itself-again words have meaning and it is written in English .How can that be wrong? - Original Message ----- From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 06, 2006 20:56 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? cd: Is speaking of the greatness if Christ "objective" to you Lance? That is what I we do. Would you like to come and hear me speak-or Kevin? He is Just across the falls and I will meet you there? We only encourage others to come to Jesus-why are we wrong to do so? - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/6/2006 12:23:25 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? Me too, Dave. When TRUELY OBJECTIONABLE BEHAVIOUR is objected to (by 'acting out') these persons occasionally do seem surprised. - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 06, 2006 10:43 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? DAVEH: OK Dean, I understand your sensitivity to such and will respond without using the words you find objectionable. I would like to continue to discuss this, as I find it interesting to see how SPers think. I am curious as to why one would still show up on somebody's doorstep when an objectionable topic is mentioned rather than discuss it with them via the phone or email? What is to be accomplished by a personal visit? Most folks would understand such a visit to be a physical threat, even though it could be claimed that the offended has a constitutional right to confront the offender. The reason I ask this is because it seems to me that many SPers seemed surprised that they are physically attacked when confronting sinners on the streets. Yet they feel compelled to stare the jaws of death (so to speak) in the mouth. Is this a martyr complex of sorts? Does it give SPers confidence if they are persecuted for the Lord's sake ? I suppose an argument can be made that if one dies while in the service of the Lord, it would be a feather in the cap of the persecuted while at the same time driving the persecutor even deeper into hell. To me that seems like rather odd logic, considering that the SPer (or guy showing up on the doorstep) is somewhat a catalyst in this scenario. IOWIs a SPer guilty of promoting a problem when he uses his constitutionally guaranteed free speech to aggravate a situation that can and will likely turn to violence?Dean Moore wrote: Moderator: Wouldn't have to show up in Portland DaveH-all I would have to do is click a button and my problem is solved and that is exactly what I going to do the next time you use the words-** in the combination that you used them below. Discussion over-warning given! - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/5/2006 12:52:41 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? DAVEH: Dean, from what you said previously about the oneness of husband and wife, if I were to ask you about ,, you would take that as a personal attack on ** and would then presume it to be a personal attack on you as well, and then proceed to come to Portland and show up on my doorstep.is that correct? Wouldn't it be smarter just to say the same thing to me via email or a phone call, rather than show up on my doorstep? What would be accomplished by coming to Portland? If I were then to assume you are on my doorstep for a reason other than an amicable discussion, and felt my life was being threatened by your presence on my doorstep, I would probably not answer the door. Wouldn't that just frustrate your reason for going to all that effort, cost, time and travel in an effort to come to my doorstep? Would you proceed to pound on my doo r expecting me to open it? If I did not respond to your pounding, then what would you do? And if you continued to pound on my door, what would you do if I opened it with a gun in my hand, as I might do if I perceived you as being a threat to me in my home? At that point, if you turned and left, nothing else would happen and you would have spent a lot of effort for little reason other than to satisfy your pride. If on the other hand you were to raise the level of confrontation by arguing, and if I misunderstood the reasons you were on my doorstep confronting me and refusing to leave, would you be surprised if it led to a lethal action on my part? IF that above scenario were to occur, how do you think the law would view
Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk?
- Original Message -
From: Lance Muir
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 3/7/2006 6:03:14 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk?
Look up the word 'lie'. Mistaken, wrong conclusion (one that does not follow from the source chosen), misinterpretation...these are not synonymous with lying, Dean. This is that of which I speak. Further, I've suggested and, the last couple of years has borne this out, that several on TT are unteachable. Their commitment to their existing frame of reference (not Scripture) is a kind of 'bondage'.
cd: Maybe those "unteachable(s)" are relying on the clear words of another teacher Lance-the Bible.
- Original Message -
From: Dean Moore
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 06, 2006 20:52
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk?
cd: Judy is right in the things she is telling you Lance-But you do not seem to have a ear to hear her because other have clogged you hearing-This is truth whether you believe it or not -The Great God will meet you one day with this same truth Judy speaks of-mark my words it will happen- and the friend you have surrounded yourself will be in hiding with nowhere to go.They will not speak up at that time for shame will be their covering.Know for certain that this will happen and the only way to escape this from happening is to listen to the words of Christ that Judy is teaching.Judy resounds the word of God Lance-read it for yourself and consider and see if she lies.You would do well to listen to her.
- Original Message -
From: Lance Muir
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 3/6/2006 7:57:03 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk?
YOU ARE SINCERELY WRONG, JUDY..ON SOME THINGS! Should there be one on TT who believes Judy to be right on all things, then identify yourself, please!
I prefer to identify truth as a who (Jesus) rather than a what (an abstracted observation concerning Him).
- Original Message -
From: Judy Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 06, 2006 07:50
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk?
You may regard me as sincere Lance but you have made no bones about the fact that IYO I am sincerely wrong.
We have trouble "defining" what truth is and what truth is not Lance - Why not allow Jesus who is The Truth to mediate?
If you are speaking for Lance - that is one thing. You can say things like "all truth is God's truth" and join the ranks
of the New Agers and other misguided souls. But when you claim to speak for God and judge other believers for him -
Well that deserves a response .. because you are way out of order.
On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:41:09 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Judy: I'm reigning myself in as I regard you as sincere and genuine. Are there non on TT , other than Gary, able to distinguish knowing ALL truth from knowing ANY truth? Further, it is imperative that we come to understand that some of that which we believe as truth isn't! This ain't rocket science, folks"
From: Judy Taylor
No Lance, because this is a fact which I have demonstrated already this morning ie:
Lance says we can not know truth. Pontius Pilate asked "What is Truth" - Jesus says
"Sanctify them through Thy Truth - Thy Word is Truth" (John 17:17)
"If you continue in My Word then are ye my disciples indeed and ye shall know the truth
and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:32)
"When He the Spirit of Truth is come He will guide you into ALL Truth" (John 16:13)
Lance, blatantly contradicts the words of Jesus - So whose report will you believe??
On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:21:48 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Mr. Moderator, please! 'the Spirit of Truth whom you (Lance) reject."
1. Does this require a warning?
2. I'm open to hearing from all on TT as to whether they concur with this observation.
From: Judy Taylor
They changed the known world after receiving the Spirit of Truth whom you reject.
On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 06:38:28 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
What about Jesus' disciples?
- Original Message -
From: Kevin Deegan
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 05, 2006 19:21
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk?
the operative word was 'teachable'
Circus animals are teachable!Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Please ask the MODERATOR to scan this post for ad-homs will you Dean? ('dancing brotherhood' 'keep on dancing around', 'try asking them') No, I don't have particularly broad shoulders but, I can bear up under the weight of this mighty assault, Dean. Dean: the operative word was &
Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk?
- Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/7/2006 5:54:36 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? THE truth to read MY truth or, truth as I interpret it. How I read the words that are spoken-We all do speak English right? - Original Message ----- From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 06, 2006 18:13 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? Moderator: No-The truth is not Ad. Hom attacks if one can prove his point to a reasonable conclusion(whose conclusion? Why mine decision of course)-Please explanation after my coming chastisement from David.But don't jump the gun and attack me as he seems to be hesitating(maybe he found love for me after all.)-and if wrong you will still be dealing with a moderator-that will not take any crap:-) - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/5/2006 12:52:42 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? DAVEH: Dean, does this not qualify as an ad-hom?Dean Moore wrote: cd: or lose all creditability as Lance had done in my opinion of this matter. -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
[TruthTalk] ****************Moderator**********************************
Gary-Prove to me why Judy is a Liar-What did she lie about-in detail? And it better be good or you are in time out for a few days. - Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/6/2006 11:31:31 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] An Offensive Gospel. then, implicitly, you are a liar On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 23:12:34 -0500 Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: TRUTH IS Jesus Christ
RE: [TruthTalk] ***************Respose - Moderator comment ADHOM*************
man appears in false colors. The advocate gave the subject a false coloring. False fire, a blue flame, made by the burning of certain combustibles, in a wooden tube; used as a signal during the night. False imprisonment, the arrest and imprisonment of a person without warrant or cause, or contrary to law; or the unlawful detaining of a person in custody. FALSE, adv. Not truly; not honestly; falsely. FALSE, v.t. 1. To violate by failure of veracity; to deceive. Obs. 2. To defeat; to balk; to evade. Obs. Definition from Webster's American Dictionary of the English Language, 1828.Dean Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Moderator: Kevin can you prove this to be true about Lance?If so please do so or stop the Ad. Hom . Kevin wrote:"Or are you just BEARING TRUELY False witness again?" (see your wording in the below) - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/6/2006 3:03:23 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? AH HAH you have found ABSOLUTE TRUTH again! "TRUELY OBJECTIONABLE BEHAVIOUR" See you can find the ABSOLUTE when you want to that is the problem most O the time you just plain don't want to! What was the MOST OBJECTIONABLE part for you Lance? What Behavior did you REALY REALY find Offensive. Please fill us in on the deatails We are waiting for the LOW DOWN Where were you when you OBSERVERED this deplorable action? Or are you just BEARING TRUELY False witness again? where you there?Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Me too, Dave. When TRUELY OBJECTIONABLE BEHAVIOUR is objected to (by 'acting out') these persons occasionally do seem surprised. - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 06, 2006 10:43 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? DAVEH: OK Dean, I understand your sensitivity to such and will respond without using the words you find objectionable. I would like to continue to discuss this, as I find it interesting to see how SPers think. I am curious as to why one would still show up on somebody's doorstep when an objectionable topic is mentioned rather than discuss it with them via the phone or email? What is to be accomplished by a personal visit? Most folks would understand such a visit to be a physical threat, even though it could be claimed that the offended has a constitutional right to confront the offender. The reason I ask this is because it seems to me that many SPers seemed surprised that they are physically attacked when confronting sinners on the streets. Yet they feel compelled to stare the jaws of death (so to speak) in the mouth. Is this a martyr complex of sorts? Does it give SPers confidence if they are persecuted for the Lord's sake ? I suppose an argument can be made that if one dies while in the service of the Lord, it would be a feather in the cap of the persecuted while at the same time driving the persecutor even deeper into hell. To me that seems like rather odd logic, considering that the SPer (or guy showing up on the doorstep) is somewhat a catalyst in this scenario. IOWIs a SPer guilty of promoting a problem when he uses his constitutionally guaranteed free speech to aggravate a situation that can and will likely turn to violence?Dean Moore wrote: Moderator: Wouldn't have to show up in Portland DaveH-all I would have to do is click a button and my problem is solved and that is exactly what I going to do the next time you use the words-** in the combination that you used them below. Discussion over-warning given! - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/5/2006 12:52:41 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? DAVEH: Dean, from what you said previously about the oneness of husband and wife, if I were to ask you about ,, you would take that as a personal attack on ** and would then presume it to be a personal attack on you as well, and then proceed to come to Portland and show up on my doorstep.is that correct? Wouldn't it be smarter just to say the same thing to me via email or a phone call, rather than show up on my doorstep? What would be accomplished by coming to Portland? If I were then to assume you are on my doorstep for a reason other than an amicable discussion, and felt my life was being threatened by your presence on my doorstep, I would probably not answer the door. Wouldn't that just frustrate your reason for going to all that effort, cost, time and travel in an effort to come to my doorstep? Would you proceed to pound on my doo r expecting me to open it? If I did not respond to your pounding, then what would you do? And if you continued to pound on my door, what would you do if I opened it with a gun in my hand, as I might do if I perceived you as being a threat to
Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk?
cd: Is speaking of the greatness if Christ "objective" to you Lance? That is what I we do. Would you like to come and hear me speak-or Kevin? He is Just across the falls and I will meet you there? We only encourage others to come to Jesus-why are we wrong to do so? - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/6/2006 12:23:25 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? Me too, Dave. When TRUELY OBJECTIONABLE BEHAVIOUR is objected to (by 'acting out') these persons occasionally do seem surprised. - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 06, 2006 10:43 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? DAVEH: OK Dean, I understand your sensitivity to such and will respond without using the words you find objectionable. I would like to continue to discuss this, as I find it interesting to see how SPers think. I am curious as to why one would still show up on somebody's doorstep when an objectionable topic is mentioned rather than discuss it with them via the phone or email? What is to be accomplished by a personal visit? Most folks would understand such a visit to be a physical threat, even though it could be claimed that the offended has a constitutional right to confront the offender. The reason I ask this is because it seems to me that many SPers seemed surprised that they are physically attacked when confronting sinners on the streets. Yet they feel compelled to stare the jaws of death (so to speak) in the mouth. Is this a martyr complex of sorts? Does it give SPers confidence if they are persecuted for the Lord's sake ? I suppose an argument can be made that if one dies while in the service of the Lord, it would be a feather in the cap of the persecuted while at the same time driving the persecutor even deeper into hell. To me that seems like rather odd logic, considering that the SPer (or guy showing up on the doorstep) is somewhat a catalyst in this scenario. IOWIs a SPer guilty of promoting a problem when he uses his constitutionally guaranteed free speech to aggravate a situation that can and will likely turn to violence?Dean Moore wrote: Moderator: Wouldn't have to show up in Portland DaveH-all I would have to do is click a button and my problem is solved and that is exactly what I going to do the next time you use the words-** in the combination that you used them below. Discussion over-warning given! - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/5/2006 12:52:41 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? DAVEH: Dean, from what you said previously about the oneness of husband and wife, if I were to ask you about ,, you would take that as a personal attack on ** and would then presume it to be a personal attack on you as well, and then proceed to come to Portland and show up on my doorstep.is that correct? Wouldn't it be smarter just to say the same thing to me via email or a phone call, rather than show up on my doorstep? What would be accomplished by coming to Portland? If I were then to assume you are on my doorstep for a reason other than an amicable discussion, and felt my life was being threatened by your presence on my doorstep, I would probably not answer the door. Wouldn't that just frustrate your reason for going to all that effort, cost, time and travel in an effort to come to my doorstep? Would you proceed to pound on my doo r expecting me to open it? If I did not respond to your pounding, then what would you do? And if you continued to pound on my door, what would you do if I opened it with a gun in my hand, as I might do if I perceived you as being a threat to me in my home? At that point, if you turned and left, nothing else would happen and you would have spent a lot of effort for little reason other than to satisfy your pride. If on the other hand you were to raise the level of confrontation by arguing, and if I misunderstood the reasons you were on my doorstep confronting me and refusing to leave, would you be surprised if it led to a lethal action on my part? IF that above scenario were to occur, how do you think the law would view this matter? Would I be found guilty of manslaughter, or would you be guilty of threatening my life to the point of my using justifiable lethal means in self-defense? In my defense, I'm sure my lawyer would quote your comment. ...-- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
