Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment Begins at the House of God
Kevin Deegan wrote: So could you tell me what the difference is between you and our Mormon friends? LDS believe the bible "as far as it is translated correctly" DAVEH: And you don't, Kevin? Do you really believe all parts of the Bible were translated correctly? LDS believe that things may have been added to the Scriptures DAVEH: Again Kevindo you not believe it is possible that some things may have been added to the Scriptures? Or do you believe God would have prevented such from happening? -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment Begins at the House of God
1) I believe it true Prov 30:4 EVERY Word of God is pure 2) My God is not a pipsqueak at peril of menperverting His plans or His purpose eg someone lost 115 pages, but it was not the God of the Bible. It was the god of the BoM Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kevin Deegan wrote: So could you tell me what the difference is between you and our Mormon friends? LDS believe the bible "as far as it is translated correctly"DAVEH: And you don't, Kevin? Do you really believe all parts of the Bible were translated correctly? LDS believe that things may have been added to the Scriptures DAVEH: Again Kevindo you not believe it is possible that some things may have been added to the Scriptures? Or do you believe God would have prevented such from happening?-- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS. Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment Begins at the House of God
Lance wrote: Sorry but, did you just accuse Caroline of Wong doctrine? LOL! Sometimes it is a real pleasure having you around, Lance. :-) Peace be with you. David Miller. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment Begins at the House of God
If only my name was N.T. Wright who is also called St. Thomas and has his work referred to as the Gospel According to Thomas! :-) Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 8:06 AM Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment Begins at the House of God Lance wrote: Sorry but, did you just accuse Caroline of Wong doctrine? LOL! Sometimes it is a real pleasure having you around, Lance. :-) Peace be with you. David Miller. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment Begins at the House of God
Caroline wrote: Didn't Jesus say ... anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell. Yes he did, Caroline. Compare that with the following passages: Matthew 23:17-19 (17) Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold? (18) And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty. (19) Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift? Luke 11:40 (40) Ye fools, did not he that made that which is without make that which is within also? Luke 24:25 (25) Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: I would have thought this was right up your alley, something you had considered before. :-) The atheists like to raise this as a contradiction, but as you are perhaps aware, it is not. Peace be with you. David Miller. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment Begins at the House of God
Good passage. Do you think there is a case for annihilation/conditionalism in the phrase everlasting destruction in verse 9? John Stott and several other theologians think there is. Have you ever received a vision of heaven or of hell and have you asked the Lord for it? I know someone who had a vision of heaven but I don't know any personally who had visions of hell. Lance posted something from Choo Thomas and I know a passage from Julian of Norwich where she asked the Lord to show her hell. I read parts of 1 Enoch but that is not fully accepted as inspired by the Jews. Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 7:50 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment Begins at the House of God Caroline wrote: They added the words without cause because they could not let go of their own anger and they need a punitive God. What makes you think the words were added? The majority of texts have the phrase. Caroline wrote: Even though people made Jesus frustrated to the point of tears, he is not punitive. Don't you think Jesus is punitive in the following passage? 2 Thessalonians 1:6-10 (6) Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; (7) And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, (8) In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: (9) Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; (10) When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day. Surely you don't think all these words were added too, do you? Caroline wrote: He drove the money changers out of the temple and he rebuked people for not showing mercy and justice. It was not sinners that made him angry - it was lack of mercy, compassion and justice. Excuse me, but those who lack mercy, compassion, and justice are sinners. The religious establishment, the scribes and Pharisees, which were the Barth's, Torrance's, and Wright's of Christ's day, these were indeed sinners, and they made Jesus angry. Do you see it differently? Caroline wrote: He ate with sinners and gluttons and was incredibly gracious and merciful to them all. Yes, he was gracious to sinners who received his rebukes and corrections, who received his message that they needed to repent because the Kingdom of God was at hand. Jesus gave the call to holiness, and those sinners who smote their breasts and repented received grace, but those religiously trained men, the educated ones in the establishment, these were the sinners who made Christ angry and did not receive his grace and mercy. Peace be with you. David Miller. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment Begins at the House of God
You, David, have a 'hard time' understanding lots of things. The reason you do is between you and God reflecting the state of your heart. IMO both Slade and Gary show more discernment, in some areas, than yourself. - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: April 23, 2005 22:10 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment Begins at the House of God Debbie wrote: I overstated it when I said that there is absolutely no difference between #$% you and You are of your father the devil. I really meant they are potentially the same when used to express a certain attitude towards the other person and ourselves. So do you believe that Jesus was guilty of this cursing attitude expressed by Caroline? I have a hard time understanding that. Maybe you can explain. Debbie wrote: The same in the way that calling our brother a fool and murdering him are the same. These two actions are not always the same thing. Jesus called people fools, but he did not have a murdering and hateful attitude towards them. Debbie wrote: And yes, people have said these or similar things to others on TT whose only sin is that they disagree. I don't think you are following the conversation too closely if you think that the only sin is that they disagree. We are dealing with someone bearing false witness against another list member. I tried to deal with this same sin before but with nicer words. I think the moderator should have stepped in long before now, but he has chosen not to do so, perhaps because he does not recognize the false accusation. It would be better for no list member to have to say to another, you are of your father the devil. That is why we have the no ad hominem rule, to stop this kind of banter. Unfortunately, the moderator is not dealing properly with the false accusations that started all this to begin with. This leaves it to the one being accused to deal with it, and he did so by speaking in the same way that Jesus did to religious men who falsely accused him. Peace be with you. David Miller. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment Begins at the House of God
David wrote: These two actions are not always the same thing. Jesus called people fools, but he did not have a murdering and hateful attitude towards them. Caroline: Didn't Jesus say You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.' But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment Begins at the House of God
NO that is not what Jesus said unless you have one of those PERVERT Bibles. In the "newe" versions it just says '"But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment" (leaving out without a cause) THEREBY the "scholars" make Jesus a sinner in danger of HELL Fire! The correct reading would be KJV Holy Bible: But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. Here we have a PERFECT example of the Corruption of the ROOT causing one to assume and propagate wrong doctrine. very important few words left out change the whole meaning. What else is missing? What else has been corrupted? If I were you I would check out that book your using to see if it correctly identifies David as the one who threw the stones and if it leaves out "without a cause" thereby making Jesus subject to Hell Fire! Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: David wrote: These two actions are not always the same thing. Jesus called people fools, but he did not have a murdering and hateful attitude towards them.Caroline:Didn't Jesus say "You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.' But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell." --"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment Begins at the House of God
Sorry but, did you just accuse Caroline of Wong doctrine? - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: April 24, 2005 08:34 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment Begins at the House of God NO that is not what Jesus said unless you have one of those PERVERT Bibles. In the "newe" versions it just says '"But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment" (leaving out without a cause) THEREBY the "scholars" make Jesus a sinner in danger of HELL Fire! The correct reading would be KJV Holy Bible: But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. Here we have a PERFECT example of the Corruption of the ROOT causing one to assume and propagate wrong doctrine. very important few words left out change the whole meaning. What else is missing? What else has been corrupted? If I were you I would check out that book your using to see if it correctly identifies David as the one who threw the stones and if it leaves out "without a cause" thereby making Jesus subject to Hell Fire! Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: David wrote: These two actions are not always the same thing. Jesus called people fools, but he did not have a murdering and hateful attitude towards them.Caroline:Didn't Jesus say "You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.' But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell." --"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. Do you Yahoo!?Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment Begins at the House of God
People like to tamper with Jesus' words and ministry because the call to idolatry is seductive. They added the words "without cause" because they could not let go of their own anger and they need a punitive God. Even though people made Jesus frustrated to the point of tears, he is not punitive. He drove the money changers out of the temple and he rebuked people for not showing mercy and justice. It was not sinnersthat made him angry- it was lack of mercy, compassion and justice. He ate with sinners and gluttons and was incredibly gracious and mercifulto them all. Non-canonical works like the Infancy Gospel have Jesus killing people or giving them the evil eye. Jesus is the fullest revelation of God and he said God desired mercy and not sacrifice. He also pointed out that Pharisees had searched scripture looking for eternal life and here he is standing in front of them and they don'tget it. Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 7:34 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment Begins at the House of God NO that is not what Jesus said unless you have one of those PERVERT Bibles. In the "newe" versions it just says '"But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment" (leaving out without a cause) THEREBY the "scholars" make Jesus a sinner in danger of HELL Fire! The correct reading would be KJV Holy Bible: But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. Here we have a PERFECT example of the Corruption of the ROOT causing one to assume and propagate wrong doctrine. very important few words left out change the whole meaning. What else is missing? What else has been corrupted? If I were you I would check out that book your using to see if it correctly identifies David as the one who threw the stones and if it leaves out "without a cause" thereby making Jesus subject to Hell Fire! Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: David wrote: These two actions are not always the same thing. Jesus called people fools, but he did not have a murdering and hateful attitude towards them.Caroline:Didn't Jesus say "You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.' But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell." --"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. Do you Yahoo!?Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment Begins at the House of God
This sounds toosimilar to the SODOMites who say the sin of SODOM was in being inhospitible! A god who stones people for being INHOSPITABLE is more than PUNITIVE. This is the natural end of fables. What evidence besides what you imagined conjured up ion your mind do you offer for this philosophy? Jesus FRUSTRATED? How does one frustrate God? Seems whenever there is a disagreement with your philosophy we discover missing or added words, pretty amazing. Added words? Evidence of such? Who added the words? Why did the Christians allow the words to be added? Any historical evidence of such? And why did the "added words" end up as the only version for all those years, until two Unbelieving Romanists blessed us with Lucian RecensionTheory in the late 1800's? Hort offered NOT ONE piece of evidence for his theory neither do you. EZ 16 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: People like to tamper with Jesus' words and ministry because the call to idolatry is seductive. They added the words "without cause" because they could not let go of their own anger and they need a punitive God. Even though people made Jesus frustrated to the point of tears, he is not punitive. He drove the money changers out of the temple and he rebuked people for not showing mercy and justice. It was not sinnersthat made him angry- it was lack of mercy, compassion and justice. He ate with sinners and gluttons and was incredibly gracious and mercifulto them all. Non-canonical works like the Infancy Gospel have Jesus killing people or giving them the evil eye. Jesus is the fullest revelation of God and he said God desired mercy and not sacrifice. He also pointed out that Pharisees had searched scripture looking for eternal life and here he is standing in front of them and they don'tget it. Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 7:34 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment Begins at the House of God NO that is not what Jesus said unless you have one of those PERVERT Bibles. In the "newe" versions it just says '"But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment" (leaving out without a cause) THEREBY the "scholars" make Jesus a sinner in danger of HELL Fire! The correct reading would be KJV Holy Bible: But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. Here we have a PERFECT example of the Corruption of the ROOT causing one to assume and propagate wrong doctrine. very important few words left out change the whole meaning. What else is missing? What else has been corrupted? If I were you I would check out that book your using to see if it correctly identifies David as the one who threw the stones and if it leaves out "without a cause" thereby making Jesus subject to Hell Fire! Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: David wrote: These two actions are not always the same thing. Jesus called people fools, but he did not have a murdering and hateful attitude towards them.Caroline:Didn't Jesus say "You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.' But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell." --"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. Do you Yahoo!?Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment Begins at the House of God
So the answer to all this is that it is the KJV that is in error. How foolish of me, you know I just put too much trust in that book. Could you send me a penknife and a list of corrections that need to be excised from the text? Jer 36 Now it came to pass, when they had heard all the words, they were afraid both one and other, and said unto Baruch, We will surely tell the king of all these words. And it came to pass, that when Jehudi had read three or four leaves, he cut it with the penknife, and cast it into the fire that was on the hearth, until all the roll was consumed in the fire that was on the hearth.Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: People like to tamper with Jesus' words and ministry because the call to idolatry is seductive. They added the words "without cause" because they could not let go of their own anger and they need a punitive God. Even though people made Jesus frustrated to the point of tears, he is not punitive. He drove the money changers out of the temple and he rebuked people for not showing mercy and justice. It was not sinnersthat made him angry- it was lack of mercy, compassion and justice. He ate with sinners and gluttons and was incredibly gracious and mercifulto them all. Non-canonical works like the Infancy Gospel have Jesus killing people or giving them the evil eye. Jesus is the fullest revelation of God and he said God desired mercy and not sacrifice. He also pointed out that Pharisees had searched scripture looking for eternal life and here he is standing in front of them and they don'tget it. Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 7:34 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment Begins at the House of God NO that is not what Jesus said unless you have one of those PERVERT Bibles. In the "newe" versions it just says '"But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment" (leaving out without a cause) THEREBY the "scholars" make Jesus a sinner in danger of HELL Fire! The correct reading would be KJV Holy Bible: But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. Here we have a PERFECT example of the Corruption of the ROOT causing one to assume and propagate wrong doctrine. very important few words left out change the whole meaning. What else is missing? What else has been corrupted? If I were you I would check out that book your using to see if it correctly identifies David as the one who threw the stones and if it leaves out "without a cause" thereby making Jesus subject to Hell Fire! Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: David wrote: These two actions are not always the same thing. Jesus called people fools, but he did not have a murdering and hateful attitude towards them.Caroline:Didn't Jesus say "You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.' But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell." --"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. Do you Yahoo!?Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment Begins at the House of God
I find your casual treatment of the scriptures absolutely shocking.Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: People like to tamper with Jesus' words and ministry because the call to idolatry is seductive. They added the words "without cause" because they could not let go of their own anger and they need a punitive God. Even though people made Jesus frustrated to the point of tears, he is not punitive. He drove the money changers out of the temple and he rebuked people for not showing mercy and justice. It was not sinnersthat made him angry- it was lack of mercy, compassion and justice. He ate with sinners and gluttons and was incredibly gracious and mercifulto them all. Non-canonical works like the Infancy Gospel have Jesus killing people or giving them the evil eye. Jesus is the fullest revelation of God and he said God desired mercy and not sacrifice. He also pointed out that Pharisees had searched scripture looking for eternal life and here he is standing in front of them and they don'tget it. Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 7:34 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment Begins at the House of God NO that is not what Jesus said unless you have one of those PERVERT Bibles. In the "newe" versions it just says '"But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment" (leaving out without a cause) THEREBY the "scholars" make Jesus a sinner in danger of HELL Fire! The correct reading would be KJV Holy Bible: But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. Here we have a PERFECT example of the Corruption of the ROOT causing one to assume and propagate wrong doctrine. very important few words left out change the whole meaning. What else is missing? What else has been corrupted? If I were you I would check out that book your using to see if it correctly identifies David as the one who threw the stones and if it leaves out "without a cause" thereby making Jesus subject to Hell Fire! Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: David wrote: These two actions are not always the same thing. Jesus called people fools, but he did not have a murdering and hateful attitude towards them.Caroline:Didn't Jesus say "You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.' But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell." --"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. Do you Yahoo!?Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment Begins at the House of God
You would truly have a holey bible if you did that. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 3:25 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment Begins at the House of God So the answer to all this is that it is the KJV that is in error. How foolish of me, you know I just put too much trust in that book. Could you send me a penknife and a list of corrections that need to be excised from the text? Jer 36 Now it came to pass, when they had heard all the words, they were afraid both one and other, and said unto Baruch, We will surely tell the king of all these words. And it came to pass, that when Jehudi had read three or four leaves, he cut it with the penknife, and cast it into the fire that was on the hearth, until all the roll was consumed in the fire that was on the hearth.Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: People like to tamper with Jesus' words and ministry because the call to idolatry is seductive. They added the words "without cause" because they could not let go of their own anger and they need a punitive God. Even though people made Jesus frustrated to the point of tears, he is not punitive. He drove the money changers out of the temple and he rebuked people for not showing mercy and justice. It was not sinnersthat made him angry- it was lack of mercy, compassion and justice. He ate with sinners and gluttons and was incredibly gracious and mercifulto them all. Non-canonical works like the Infancy Gospel have Jesus killing people or giving them the evil eye. Jesus is the fullest revelation of God and he said God desired mercy and not sacrifice. He also pointed out that Pharisees had searched scripture looking for eternal life and here he is standing in front of them and they don'tget it. Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 7:34 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment Begins at the House of God NO that is not what Jesus said unless you have one of those PERVERT Bibles. In the "newe" versions it just says '"But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment" (leaving out without a cause) THEREBY the "scholars" make Jesus a sinner in danger of HELL Fire! The correct reading would be KJV Holy Bible: But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. Here we have a PERFECT example of the Corruption of the ROOT causing one to assume and propagate wrong doctrine. very important few words left out change the whole meaning. What else is missing? What else has been corrupted? If I were you I would check out that book your using to see if it correctly identifies David as the one who threw the stones and if it leaves out "without a cause" thereby making Jesus subject to Hell Fire! Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: David wrote: These two actions are not always the same thing. Jesus called people fools, but he did not have a murdering and hateful attitude towards them.Caroline:Didn't Jesus say "You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.' But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell." --"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. Do you Yahoo!?Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! Do you Yahoo!?Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment Begins at the House of God
They added the words "without cause" So could you tell me what the difference is between you and our Mormon friends? LDS believe the bible "as far as it is translated correctly" What is the difference? LDS believe in things such as Reformed Egyptian without a SINGLE Shred of Evidence What is the difference? LDS believe that things may have been added to the Scriptures What is the difference? I can understand if you do not answer since I am so Angry. Prov 13:13 Whoso despiseth the word shall be destroyed Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You would truly have a holey bible if you did that. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 3:25 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment Begins at the House of God So the answer to all this is that it is the KJV that is in error. How foolish of me, you know I just put too much trust in that book. Could you send me a penknife and a list of corrections that need to be excised from the text? Jer 36 Now it came to pass, when they had heard all the words, they were afraid both one and other, and said unto Baruch, We will surely tell the king of all these words. And it came to pass, that when Jehudi had read three or four leaves, he cut it with the penknife, and cast it into the fire that was on the hearth, until all the roll was consumed in the fire that was on the hearth.Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: People like to tamper with Jesus' words and ministry because the call to idolatry is seductive. They added the words "without cause" because they could not let go of their own anger and they need a punitive God. Even though people made Jesus frustrated to the point of tears, he is not punitive. He drove the money changers out of the temple and he rebuked people for not showing mercy and justice. It was not sinnersthat made him angry- it was lack of mercy, compassion and justice. He ate with sinners and gluttons and was incredibly gracious and mercifulto them all. Non-canonical works like the Infancy Gospel have Jesus killing people or giving them the evil eye. Jesus is the fullest revelation of God and he said God desired mercy and not sacrifice. He also pointed out that Pharisees had searched scripture looking for eternal life and here he is standing in front of them and they don'tget it. Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 7:34 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment Begins at the House of God NO that is not what Jesus said unless you have one of those PERVERT Bibles. In the "newe" versions it just says '"But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment" (leaving out without a cause) THEREBY the "scholars" make Jesus a sinner in danger of HELL Fire! The correct reading would be KJV Holy Bible: But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. Here we have a PERFECT example of the Corruption of the ROOT causing one to assume and propagate wrong doctrine. very important few words left out change the whole meaning. What else is missing? What else has been corrupted? If I were you I would check out that book your using to see if it correctly identifies David as the one who threw the stones and if it leaves out "without a cause" thereby making Jesus subject to Hell Fire! Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: David wrote: These two actions are not always the same thing. Jesus called people fools, but he did not have a murdering and hateful attitude towards them.Caroline:Didn't Jesus say "You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.' But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell." --"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. Do you Yahoo!?Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! Do you Yahoo!?Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
RE: [TruthTalk] Judgment Begins at the House of God
Jesus was commenting on the state of a person's heart who looks upon a brother with contempt in his heart--that is where the sin springs from. Contempt drips from the mouths (pens) of JD and Lance here. They need a heart transplant. Izzy -- Are you still wasting your time with spam?... There is a solution! Protected by GIANT Company's Spam Inspector The most powerful anti-spam software available. http://www.giantcompany.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline Wong Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 8:03 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment Begins at the House of God David wrote: These two actions are not always the same thing. Jesus called people fools, but he did not have a murdering and hateful attitude towards them. Caroline: Didn't Jesus say You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.' But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment Begins at the House of God
Judy, you'repartly right: I overstated it when I saidthat there is absolutely nodifference between "#$% you" and "You are of your father the devil". I really meant they are potentially the same when used to express a certain attitude towards the other person and ourselves.The same in the way thatcalling our brother a fool and murdering him are the same. And yes, people have said these or similar things to others on TT whose only "sin" is that they disagree. BTW, I do not see that at all in those two1 John verses. What do you see in Romans 9: 33, 34? But please note what I said re accountability to God for how I live, what I do with the freedom given to me. Do I ever shrink/feel shame at my behaviour? Yes. (Ask Lance.) Then I confess, turn, and continue walking. In contrast to David, I do need to do this more than once on many things. Do I live in fear of punishment? No, but it could be that I won't be given many, or any,cities to rule over--if I may use that metaphor. In short, for the last time: Idon't take sin lightly. I acknowledge Christ as my Lord. I can't be any clearer. David, I too am grateful for the use of this listserv. Debbie - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2005 8:57 AM Subject: [TruthTalk] Judgment Begins at the House of God Debbie writes in part: 4. Extremely embarrassed to come before the Lord and have this brought up: (a) We are before the Lord at all times. (b) Do you really think he is logging incidents and shelving the ledger each time in order to bring it all up later? Forgive me, David, but your god sounds very much like the Accuser! God's agenda in saving us is to change us into the people he wants--as soon as possible. Throughout our lives, God draws our attention to things appropriate to our stage, and may take startling measures to do so when necessary (see various posts of Caroline's). The rest of what you say, about confessing and repenting, seems to suggest you agree with this. Why would he be saving it up in order to nail us with it? See #1. (c) There is absolutely no difference between "#($%" and "You espouse a doctrine of demons" or "You are of your father the devil". The latter are just "good KJV biblical lingo". Besides, she wasn't saying it. She was quoting it. :-) Hi Debbie, you write: We are before the Lord at all times which is not what DM was referring to. We will also stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ to answer for deeds we have done in the flesh - and yes, He will bring these up later (1 John 2:28,29) It's not as though he is "saving it up in order to nail us with it" We are the ones saving it up if we are not dealing with it now while we have a measure of time. I see a big difference between "#($%" and the terms DM uses. I understand "#($%" to be comic book cussing. Does it mean something different in Canada? Also Caroline was "saying it" because I've not seen anyone else on TT using this kind of stuff so it is impossible for her to be quoting anyone here.
Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment Begins at the House of God
On Sat, 23 Apr 2005 09:52:50 -0400 "Debbie Sawczak" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Judy, you'repartly right: I overstated it when I saidthat there is absolutely nodifference between "#$% you" and "You are of your father the devil". I really meant they are potentially the same when used to express a certain attitude towards the other person and ourselves.The same in the way thatcalling our brother a fool and murdering him are the same. And yes, people have said these or similar things to others on TT whose only "sin" is that they disagree. Thank you Debbie for letting me know that you see this. If DavidM spoke of sin I believe he would be referring to attitude. I've seen Kevin point to lies and point to where they come from and I've talked of the accuser myself in an effort to get a certain one to see that he is being used that way. BTW, I do not see that at all in those two1 John verses. 1 John 2:28,29 speaks of the Second Coming when He will appear as Judge and John is exhorting believers to deal with their issues so as not to be "ashamed before Him at His coming" There are too many scriptures like this for me to swallow the "Christ event" squeaky clean scenario. Yes He paid the price for it to happen but we must walk it out daily to overcome in this life. We must strive to enter His rest. What do you see in Romans 9: 33, 34? These verses are a prophecy of Isaiah which speaks of Jesus the Messiah. But please note what I said re accountability to God for how I live, what I do with the freedom given to me. Do I ever shrink/feel shame at my behaviour? Yes. (Ask Lance.) Then I confess, turn, and continue walking. That's good Debbie, sounds like a normal Christian walk to me thus far. In contrast to David, I do need to do this more than once on many things. Why do you say "in contrast to David?" If you were to get below the surface of his life I am sure he would tell you that walks the same way we do. When he speaks of perfection he is speaking of sanctification which he has said is a process if I remember correctly. Also I believe there is a lot of misunderstanding having to do with DM and his gifting. I don't remember what kind of religious background Lance has, I know Caroline was raised Baptist, and don't know if you have mentioned your denominational background Debbie. I was raised ecclectic Methodist - wasn't taught a whole lot but there was an advantage in that I wasn't taught against a whole lot either. For a time when we first moved to Virginiawe attended Charismatic meetings and so I understand the operation of spiritual giftings. Possiblysome of you misunderstand David and take offense when he is speaking prophetically whichcan sound harsh to some. You can take or leave what he says but I would be careful about stoning him over it. Do I live in fear of punishment? No, but it could be that I won't be given many, or any,cities to rule over--if I may use that metaphor. In short, for the last time: Idon't take sin lightly. I acknowledge Christ as my Lord. I can't be any clearer. Glad to hear it Debbie. Maybe sometime when I have the time I can more clearly articulate why this "Christ event" "incarnational" doctrine concerns me as much as it does. David, I too am grateful for the use of this listserv. Debbie - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2005 8:57 AM Subject: [TruthTalk] Judgment Begins at the House of God Debbie writes in part: 4. Extremely embarrassed to come before the Lord and have this brought up: (a) We are before the Lord at all times. (b) Do you really think he is logging incidents and shelving the ledger each time in order to bring it all up later? Forgive me, David, but your god sounds very much like the Accuser! God's agenda in saving us is to change us into the people he wants--as soon as possible. Throughout our lives, God draws our attention to things appropriate to our stage, and may take startling measures to do so when necessary (see various posts of Caroline's). The rest of what you say, about confessing and repenting, seems to suggest you agree with this. Why would he be saving it up in order to nail us with it? See #1. (c) There is absolutely no difference between "#($%" and "You espouse a doctrine of demons" or "You are of your father the devil". The latter are just "good KJV biblical lingo". Besides, she wasn't saying it. She was quoting it. :-) Hi Debbie, you write: We are before the Lord at all times which is not what DM was referring to. We will also stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ to answer for deeds we have done in the
Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment Begins at the House of God
Sorry, I meant Romans 8:33, 34! Debbie - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2005 12:36 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment Begins at the House of God On Sat, 23 Apr 2005 09:52:50 -0400 "Debbie Sawczak" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Judy, you'repartly right: I overstated it when I saidthat there is absolutely nodifference between "#$% you" and "You are of your father the devil". I really meant they are potentially the same when used to express a certain attitude towards the other person and ourselves.The same in the way thatcalling our brother a fool and murdering him are the same. And yes, people have said these or similar things to others on TT whose only "sin" is that they disagree. Thank you Debbie for letting me know that you see this. If DavidM spoke of sin I believe he would be referring to attitude. I've seen Kevin point to lies and point to where they come from and I've talked of the accuser myself in an effort to get a certain one to see that he is being used that way. BTW, I do not see that at all in those two1 John verses. 1 John 2:28,29 speaks of the Second Coming when He will appear as Judge and John is exhorting believers to deal with their issues so as not to be "ashamed before Him at His coming" There are too many scriptures like this for me to swallow the "Christ event" squeaky clean scenario. Yes He paid the price for it to happen but we must walk it out daily to overcome in this life. We must strive to enter His rest. What do you see in Romans 9: 33, 34? These verses are a prophecy of Isaiah which speaks of Jesus the Messiah. But please note what I said re accountability to God for how I live, what I do with the freedom given to me. Do I ever shrink/feel shame at my behaviour? Yes. (Ask Lance.) Then I confess, turn, and continue walking. That's good Debbie, sounds like a normal Christian walk to me thus far. In contrast to David, I do need to do this more than once on many things. Why do you say "in contrast to David?" If you were to get below the surface of his life I am sure he would tell you that walks the same way we do. When he speaks of perfection he is speaking of sanctification which he has said is a process if I remember correctly. Also I believe there is a lot of misunderstanding having to do with DM and his gifting. I don't remember what kind of religious background Lance has, I know Caroline was raised Baptist, and don't know if you have mentioned your denominational background Debbie. I was raised ecclectic Methodist - wasn't taught a whole lot but there was an advantage in that I wasn't taught against a whole lot either. For a time when we first moved to Virginiawe attended Charismatic meetings and so I understand the operation of spiritual giftings. Possiblysome of you misunderstand David and take offense when he is speaking prophetically whichcan sound harsh to some. You can take or leave what he says but I would be careful about stoning him over it. Do I live in fear of punishment? No, but it could be that I won't be given many, or any,cities to rule over--if I may use that metaphor. In short, for the last time: Idon't take sin lightly. I acknowledge Christ as my Lord. I can't be any clearer. Glad to hear it Debbie. Maybe sometime when I have the time I can more clearly articulate why this "Christ event" "incarnational" doctrine concerns me as much as it does. David, I too am grateful for the use of this listserv. Debbie - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2005 8:57 AM Subject: [TruthTalk] Judgment Begins at the House of God Debbie writes in part: 4. Extremely embarrassed to come before the Lord and have this brought up: (a) We are before the Lord at all times. (b) Do you really think he is logging incidents and shelving the ledger each time in order to bring it all up later? Forgive me, David, but your god sounds very much like the Accuser! God's agenda in saving us is to change us into the people he wants--as soon as possible. Throughout our lives, God draws our attention to things appropriate to our stage, and may take startling measures to do so when necessary (see various posts of Caroline's). The rest of what you say, about confessing and rep
Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment Begins at the House of God
Debbie wrote: I overstated it when I said that there is absolutely no difference between #$% you and You are of your father the devil. I really meant they are potentially the same when used to express a certain attitude towards the other person and ourselves. So do you believe that Jesus was guilty of this cursing attitude expressed by Caroline? I have a hard time understanding that. Maybe you can explain. Debbie wrote: The same in the way that calling our brother a fool and murdering him are the same. These two actions are not always the same thing. Jesus called people fools, but he did not have a murdering and hateful attitude towards them. Debbie wrote: And yes, people have said these or similar things to others on TT whose only sin is that they disagree. I don't think you are following the conversation too closely if you think that the only sin is that they disagree. We are dealing with someone bearing false witness against another list member. I tried to deal with this same sin before but with nicer words. I think the moderator should have stepped in long before now, but he has chosen not to do so, perhaps because he does not recognize the false accusation. It would be better for no list member to have to say to another, you are of your father the devil. That is why we have the no ad hominem rule, to stop this kind of banter. Unfortunately, the moderator is not dealing properly with the false accusations that started all this to begin with. This leaves it to the one being accused to deal with it, and he did so by speaking in the same way that Jesus did to religious men who falsely accused him. Peace be with you. David Miller. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment Begins at the House of God
David, I said (in a post I haven't seen come through yet) that I wasn't going to talk for a while, but so as not to seem to ignore you, I will point out that I am agreeing with you below. The two ways of speaking are the same in the same way (and to the same extent) that calling our brother a fool and murdering him are the same. In other words, with the same caveats you are making below. Debbie - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2005 10:10 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment Begins at the House of God Debbie wrote: I overstated it when I said that there is absolutely no difference between #$% you and You are of your father the devil. I really meant they are potentially the same when used to express a certain attitude towards the other person and ourselves. So do you believe that Jesus was guilty of this cursing attitude expressed by Caroline? I have a hard time understanding that. Maybe you can explain. Debbie wrote: The same in the way that calling our brother a fool and murdering him are the same. These two actions are not always the same thing. Jesus called people fools, but he did not have a murdering and hateful attitude towards them. Debbie wrote: And yes, people have said these or similar things to others on TT whose only sin is that they disagree. I don't think you are following the conversation too closely if you think that the only sin is that they disagree. We are dealing with someone bearing false witness against another list member. I tried to deal with this same sin before but with nicer words. I think the moderator should have stepped in long before now, but he has chosen not to do so, perhaps because he does not recognize the false accusation. It would be better for no list member to have to say to another, you are of your father the devil. That is why we have the no ad hominem rule, to stop this kind of banter. Unfortunately, the moderator is not dealing properly with the false accusations that started all this to begin with. This leaves it to the one being accused to deal with it, and he did so by speaking in the same way that Jesus did to religious men who falsely accused him. Peace be with you. David Miller. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment, Moderation, was Street Preaching
On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 08:22:42 EST [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In a message dated 1/28/2005 5:11:05 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Izzy wrote: They werent the first to goJudy is gone, too.John wote: Not before she did her damage.John, please do not disparage Judy. This only forces me to respond and defend my sister. John: Defend all you want. The very fact that she was reprimanded more than any in recent weeks is evidence of the struggle she had with stating her case without being insulting. You have the same problem - only in a more sophisticated way. She was not the only problem for our Messianic friends. jt: Still playing the blame game John? Jesus Christ, same yesterday, today, and forever has always been a "rock of offense" As for our "Messianic friends" they had so muchgoing on in their own lives personally that IMO theydid not have the time (or possibly experience) needed to moderate this list. Whyconstantly needle the listowner - how will this generate love and good-will? David: Judy did no damage. She stood up for the Word of God. She attempted to help others reconcile their teachings with the Word of God. She did not always do that perfectly, but she did as good as any of us in this difficult process. I miss her presence here. John: She didn't need to stand up for the Word of God. In fact, I would characterize her "[stand] ... for the Word" very differently. She stood up for her interpretation of the Word of God. And it was the most unusual set of conclusions as I have seen in years -- nest to yours, of course. I hasten to add that this uniqueness, per se, is not nor was not the problem. It was her willingness to impugn the motives and faith of others who disagreed with her interpretation. jt: When one posts exactly what is written - how is this an interpretation John or do you equate transcription with interpretation? As for taking a stand? What about "contending for the faith once delivered to the saints?" (Jude 3) especially since both Jesus and Paul warned about the grievous wolves who would not spare the flock. They've not gone anywhere, if anything they are greatly multiplied in our generation. As for impugning the motives and faith of others. I don't go there. Noone serves me. I am serving the Lord and release everyone on TT from any expectation on my part. It is before your own Master you stand or fall. David: While I'm saying this, I should perhaps also say that I am very disappointed to learn that Slade has unsubscribed from the list. I was not aware of this until you had posted this information to the list. I find it very strange that a moderator of this list would just up and quit like this without communicating with me. So thank you for alerting me to this change.John: He was moderator in name only and he knew this. That was not the only issue, I am sure. jt: Why didn't he talk about these issues with the Listowner? Fleeing from a responsibility he had initially agreed to is no way to go. David: If anyone has an interest in moderating this list, please write to me. My time is limited and Slade's leaving may necessitate me having to take the list down at some point in the future. John: Good luck with this request. When you, David, drew a line between insulting the teaching and insulting the teacher, you rang the final bell for this forum, in my opinion. Now, all we have to do is upgrade our ability to insult in such a way as to allow for an appeal to this distinction - and all is well. When you denied that this forum was more than simply a discussion group, you flew in the face of reality, I think. There was - for period of time - an obvious sense of brotherhood amonst a majority of those who actually participated. You once made a move to "shun" me in spite of the fact that this was "just a discussion group." That kind of inconsistency does not bode well for the forum or for your sense of leadership. John jt: Please explain the above (underlined) John. I have been here most of the time and I don't recall any of the above. Disagreeing with doctrine is different from insulting the person holding on to it. In what way did DM deny that TT is simply a discussion group and when did he shun you? So far I've not seen anyone shunned on this list and as you point out above I am the one who has received the most**reprimands** so it follows that I should bethe one with the most to complain about, right? judyt
Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment, Moderation, was Street Preaching
as human adults, let's try to differentiate betw a person (as'the..problem') andthe (perhaps solvable)problem per se let ideas conflict focus on a possible ideological solution; post it--see what flies toward reality toapply force, resolutely, tothe solvable, or, to the conflict/s as portrayed linguistically on TT,can be both vinteresting and fun.. isn'tthere a prophethere who'll vouch forthis? (if it's me, i'd say 'amen':) G On Wed, 2 Feb 2005 04:25:04 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes, apparently quoting Pastor Smithson: [jt]was not the only problem for our Messianic[moderator]
Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment, Moderation, was Street Preaching
..how many Messianic moderators actuallysolvingppl problemscan there be? On Wed, 2 Feb 2005 17:20:14 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: || On Wed, 2 Feb 2005 04:25:04 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes, apparently quoting Pastor Smithson: [jt]was not the only problem for our Messianic[moderator]
Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment?
In a message dated 9/25/2004 6:24:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 15 "Beware of th[ose who].. (12) inwardly are (13) ravenous wolves. 16 "You will (14) know them by their [works]: || 22 "(19) Many will say to Me on (20) that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not .. in Your name [perform] many miracles?' 23 "I will declare to them, 'I never knew you;..' An absolutely wonder proof-text answer. I believe in the truth of this scripture. But this does not address my concerns listed below. Not even close and I can think of several scriptures that do. John (From a pervious post) And then we have those who do not and will never "know better." They are those stunted by unenlightened teaching, superstitions, genuine deftness (for whatever reason) to the gospel message (i.e. the pagan Gentile in Romans, chapter two and the Buddhist in some unnamed island off the coast of India) , diet deficiencies, genetics related stupidity, cultural confusion (i.e. the American Indian and the Crenshaw Ave gang member), emotional instabilities and the very poor living examples of those who do claim the name of our Lord (the adulterous Teacher, the perverted youth counselor, the thief in sheep's clothing, the Christen couch potato who knows better). John
Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment?
In a message dated 9/24/2004 8:02:37 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Brother John, no one in this world hopes that Jesus is far more forgiving than His Word would indicate than yours truly. My son was killed in 1985, and I do not know where his spirit resides at this time. All I know is that wherever my son is spending eternity, God did what was right. The same can be said of this young man. While amazing grace abounds throughout the Word, the fact remains that God gave us a knowledge of good and evil the moment Eve ate the fruit, and we are all accountable to God even if we don't know His name. For those who have heard, eternal punishment awaits those who call Him Lord but do not do as He says. Sorry to have misunderstood you. Terry And don't you know, Terry, that "not knowing" must have been part of the reason why God has made it clear that we do not and cannot know for certain. I can't imagine loosing one of my boys. That's a tough one, my friend. John
RE: [TruthTalk] Judgment?
Brother John, no one in this world hopes that Jesus is far more forgiving than His Word would indicate than yours truly. My son was killed in 1985, and I do not know where his spirit resides at this time. All I know is that wherever my son is spending eternity, God did what was right. The same can be said of this young man. While amazing grace abounds throughout the Word, the fact remains that God gave us a knowledge of good and evil the moment Eve ate the fruit, and we are all accountable to God even if we don't know His name. For those who have heard, eternal punishment awaits those who call Him Lord but do not do as He says. Sorry to have misunderstood you. Terry Terry, As usual you are so right on. Izzy 13(11) Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 14For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it. 15Beware of the (12) false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are (13) ravenous wolves. 16You will (14) know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? 17So (15) every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. 19(16) Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20So then, you will know them (17) by their fruits. 21(18) Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22(19) Many will say to Me on (20) that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' 23And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; (21) DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'--Jesus
RE: [TruthTalk] Judgment?
John, You obviously have not heeded my urging to read The Visions of Sandhu Sundar Singh. Izzy Sorry. I just thought you were kidding. If serious, where do I find this publication. John Boy John, There are many books about Singh if you do a Google search. You can find the one I find most enlightening at Osterhus Publishing: Visions of Sadhu Sundar Singh of India. Foreword by Bishop LaFroy of Lahore, India. First published by Anker G. Dahle in 1926. Now published (no date) by Osterhus Publishing Company of Minneapolis, Minnesota. It is just a booklet sized publication about his visit to the afterlife and judgment. You can send Osterhus an email requesting to order it. This is an interesting website about Singhs probable influence on C.S. Lewis: http://www.ev90481.dial.pipex.com/sundar_singh.htm Izzy
Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment?
In a message dated 9/25/2004 4:31:46 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 13 "(11) Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 14 "For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it. 15 "Beware of the (12) false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are (13) ravenous wolves. 16 "You will (14) know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? 17 "So (15) every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 "A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. 19 "(16) Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 "So then, you will know them (17) by their fruits. 21 "(18) Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 "(19) Many will say to Me on (20) that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' 23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; (21) DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'--Jesus A far to simple answer for the circustance described below, don't you think? (From a pervious post) And then we have those who do not and will never "know better." They are those stunted by unenlightened teaching, superstitions, genuine deftness (for whatever reason) to the gospel message (i.e. the pagan Gentile in Romans, chapter two and the Buddhist in some unnamed island off the coast of India) , diet deficiencies, genetics related stupidity, cultural confusion (i.e. the American Indian and the Crenshaw Ave gang member), emotional instabilities and the very poor living examples of those who do claim the name of our Lord (the adulterous Teacher, the perverted youth counselor, the thief in sheep's clothing, the Christen couch potato who knows better). John
RE: [TruthTalk] Judgment?
Patience, John. Patience. J From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2004 1:36 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment? In a message dated 9/25/2004 4:31:46 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 13 (11) Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 14 For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it. 15 Beware of the (12) false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are (13) ravenous wolves. 16 You will (14) know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? 17 So (15) every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. 19 (16) Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 So then, you will know them (17) by their fruits. 21 (18) Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 (19) Many will say to Me on (20) that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' 23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; (21) DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'--Jesus A far to simple answer for the circustance described below, don't you think? (From a pervious post) And then we have those who do not and will never know better. They are those stunted by unenlightened teaching, superstitions, genuine deftness (for whatever reason) to the gospel message (i.e. the pagan Gentile in Romans, chapter two and the Buddhist in some unnamed island off the coast of India) , diet deficiencies, genetics related stupidity, cultural confusion (i.e. the American Indian and the Crenshaw Ave gang member), emotional instabilities and the very poor living examples of those who do claim the name of our Lord (the adulterous Teacher, the perverted youth counselor, the thief in sheep's clothing, the Christen couch potato who knows better). John
RE: [TruthTalk] Judgment?
Terry Said: "For those who have heard, eternal punishment awaits those who call Him Lord but do not do as He says." Slade asks: "Can you tell me how Torah Observance fits into your above comment?
Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment?
Slade Henson wrote: Terry Said: "For those who have heard, eternal punishment awaits those who call Him Lord but do not do as He says." Slade asks: "Can you tell me how Torah Observance fits into your above comment? Afraid not, my friend. I have never read anything about a torah in my Bible that I can recall. I know y'all have talked about it, but I don't know what it is. If I were to take a scientific wild guess, I would say that it probably has to do with Jewish holidays or celebrations or sacrifices or something like that. Fill me in if it's important to know. Terry
Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment?
15 "Beware of th[ose who].. (12) inwardly are (13) ravenous wolves. 16 "You will (14) know them by their [works]: || 22 "(19) Many will say to Me on (20) that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not.. in Your name [perform] many miracles?' 23 "I will declare to them, 'I never knew you;..'
RE: [TruthTalk] Judgment?
To answer your question, please refer to any product in your vast library (that I KNOW you own) that lists Strong's numbers for Hebrew words. Find the following: H8451 -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Terry CliftonSent: Saturday, 25 September, 2004 18.52To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment?Slade Henson wrote: Terry Said: "For those who have heard, eternal punishment awaits those who call Him Lord but do not do as He says." Slade asks: "Can you tell me how Torah Observance fits into your above comment? Afraid not, my friend. I have never read anything about a torah in my Bible that I can recall. I know y'all have talked about it, but I don't know what it is. If I were to take a scientific wild guess, I would say that it probably has to do with Jewish holidays or celebrations or sacrifices or something like that.Fill me in if it's important to know.Terry
Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment?
Slade Henson wrote: To answer your question, please refer to any product in your vast library (that I KNOW you own) that lists Strong's numbers for Hebrew words. Find the following: H8451 I don't have the resources you seem to think I do. I have a MacArthur study bible, Matthew Henry commentary, bible dictionary, a topical bible and a Strongs that someone gave me. I have used the Strongs to use a word to find a verse, but have never used these numbers you refer to. I will give it a try and get back to you. Terry
Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment?
Slade Henson wrote: To answer your question, please refer to any product in your vast library (that I KNOW you own) that lists Strong's numbers for Hebrew words. Find the following: H8451 Big help!! It says decalogue or pentateuch-law. Those words are not in my Bible either. Since law is tacked onto the end, I would reckon that this is talking about something Jewish again. Terry
RE: [TruthTalk] Judgment?
Did Lance send a post? Am I missing posts? Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 11:58 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment? Have a good weekend Lance. JD
Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment?
While we are -- actually "while you are" -- are resting up from the political battles of recent times, allow me these comments about a much more important subject: As each of us continue our search for the perfect biblical model, one that takes into account scriptural commentary, historical presentations (i.e. the Church Fathers), and our personal and modern day bias, we should not leave out of the consideration the very reasons why the biblical model (God's way of saving man) is both necessary and truly righteous. The reasons for the model (God's plan of salvation) is, for me, best illustrated in examples. We have all sinned and continue to fall short of the glory of God is one example -- rooted and grounded not only in scripture but in reality. Finney (with his teaching of holiness perfectionism) thought this not to be an example, failing to admit that such apostolic notions (in this case) were addressed to and described the "faithful." We have the humility of many of the Church Fathers, a humility centered in their comparison of themselves with their God and Father -- the unrighteous with the Righteous. When they chose death as a witness, it was not defiance that emanates from their example -- it is humility and faith and a love of the Company of Companions we call the Trinity. At least, that is what I see. The decision or acceptance of death as a witness of faith is the short track to humility, in my opinion. And then we have those who do not and will never "know better." They are those stunted by unenlightened teaching, superstitions, genuine deftness (for whatever reason) to the gospel message (i.e. the pagan Gentile in Romans, chapter two and the Buddhist in some unnamed island off the coast of India) , diet deficiencies, genetics related stupidity, cultural confusion (i.e. the American Indian and the Crenshaw Ave gang member), emotional instabilities and the very poor living examples of those who do claim the name of our Lord (the adulterous Teacher, the perverted youth counselor, the thief in sheep's clothing, the Christen couch potato who knows better). Here is a very real example: a young man named JJ, a black kid, whose faither leaves him alone with his whoring mother, never to be seen again. The mom, who may not know better herself, goes from one man to another. The boy sees one "father" after another until the experience becomes a numbing way of life. And then, when the boy is 12, his mother gets into one last fight with "her man," packs up her clothing and leaves JJ is left behind, alone and with his new "dad." JJ moves to the streets. He becomes a gang member and discovers a sense of belonging never before experienced. But his life is nowhere and he knows it. A youth pastor moves into the area, preaching the gospel of Christ and the young man falls in love with the righteousness of the pastor. JJ does not know what it is he likes about the situation, but "accepts Christ as his personal savior" and begins to try to make sense of it all. But before he can really get started, he is molested by this pastor. He goes back to the streets, buys a gun and at age 21 is dead - an angry, disappointed and confused young man who never really had a chance. I believe that if your model cannot save that young man -- it is heretical at its core and unworkable as the "plan of salvation." Christ came to seek and save the lost. And wherein that is the claim we all make as ministers of the gospel, that is not what we do. Usually and mostly, we just move populations around. One congregation loses its gifted and highly paid pastor, and -- over time -- many in the congregation go searching for the next big churched experience. Lutherans become "spirit filled." Mormons become Baptists. Catholics are afraid to become anything else -- and none of us make a full time job of ministering to the truly lost and hurting. If they walk into the building, ala Charles Shelton's fantasy character, we might offer them help while preferring to make WWJD wrist bands for the saved. We all need a plan that works when we do not. That is why salvation apart from works is so very necessary. Just a thought a brother, John Smithson
RE: [TruthTalk] Judgment?
We all need a plan that works when we do not. That is why salvation apart from works is so very necessary. Just a thought a brother, John Smithson John, You obviously have not heeded my urging to read The Visions of Sandhu Sundar Singh. Izzy
Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: While we are -- actually "while you are" -- are resting up from the political battles of recent times, allow me these comments about a much more important subject: As each of us continue our search for the perfect biblical model, one that takes into account scriptural commentary, historical presentations (i.e. the Church Fathers), and our personal and modern day bias, we should not leave out of the consideration the very reasons why the biblical model (God's way of saving man) is both necessary and truly righteous. The reasons for the model (God's plan of salvation) is, for me, best illustrated in examples. We have all sinned and continue to fall short of the glory of God is one example -- rooted and grounded not only in scripture but in reality. Finney (with his teaching of holiness perfectionism) thought this not to be an example, failing to admit that such apostolic notions (in this case) were addressed to and described the "faithful." We have the humility of many of the Church Fathers, a humility centered in their comparison of themselves with their God and Father -- the unrighteous with the Righteous. When they chose death as a witness, it was not defiance that emanates from their example -- it is humility and faith and a love of the Company of Companions we call the Trinity. At least, that is what I see. The decision or acceptance of death as a witness of faith is the short track to humility, in my opinion. And then we have those who do not and will never "know better." They are those stunted by unenlightened teaching, superstitions, genuine deftness (for whatever reason) to the gospel message (i.e. the pagan Gentile in Romans, chapter two and the Buddhist in some unnamed island off the coast of India) , diet deficiencies, genetics related stupidity, cultural confusion (i.e. the American Indian and the Crenshaw Ave gang member), emotional instabilities and the very poor living examples of those who do claim the name of our Lord (the adulterous Teacher, the perverted youth counselor, the thief in sheep's clothing, the Christen couch potato who knows better). Here is a very real example: a young man named JJ, a black kid, whose faither leaves him alone with his whoring mother, never to be seen again. The mom, who may not know better herself, goes from one man to another. The boy sees one "father" after another until the experience becomes a numbing way of life. And then, when the boy is 12, his mother gets into one last fight with "her man," packs up her clothing and leaves JJ is left behind, alone and with his new "dad." JJ moves to the streets. He becomes a gang member and discovers a sense of belonging never before experienced. But his life is nowhere and he knows it. A youth pastor moves into the area, preaching the gospel of Christ and the young man falls in love with the righteousness of the pastor. JJ does not know what it is he likes about the situation, but "accepts Christ as his personal savior" and begins to try to make sense of it all. But before he can really get started, he is molested by this pastor. He goes back to the streets, buys a gun and at age 21 is dead - an angry, disappointed and confused young man who never really had a chance. = You were doing pretty good up to this point my brother. The young man has a sad history, but he turned his back on God and returned to the filth and mire he had crawled out of. He not only was not willing to die for Christ; he was not willing to live for Him. If he ever was saved, he voluntarily rejected that salvation in favor of doing his own thing, spelled S-e-l-f. I strongly suspect that he was just as lost as the pervert who tried to molest him in the name of Jesus. Just another seed that sprouted on poor soil with shallow roots. I know that is not very touchy/feely, but the path is narrow. Some (most) stray off it. Terry the heretic. = I believe that if your model cannot save that young man -- it is heretical at its core and unworkable as the "plan of salvation." Christ came to seek and save the lost. And wherein that is the claim we all make as ministers of the gospel, that is not what we do. Usually and mostly, we just move populations around. One congregation loses its gifted and highly paid pastor, and -- over time -- many in the congregation go searching for the next big churched experience. Lutherans become "spirit filled." Mormons become Baptists. Catholics are afraid to become anything else -- and none of us make a full time job of ministering to the truly lost and hurting. If they walk into the building, ala Charles Shelton's fantasy character, we might offer them help while preferring to make WWJD wrist bands for the saved. We all need a plan that works when we do not. That is why salvation apart from works is so very necessary. Just a thought a brother, John
Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment?
In a message dated 9/24/2004 6:31:49 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: John, You obviously have not heeded my urging to read The Visions of Sandhu Sundar Singh. Izzy Sorry. I just thought you were kidding. If serious, where do I find this publication. John Boy
Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment?
In a message dated 9/24/2004 10:59:19 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You were doing pretty good up to this point my brother. The young man has a sad history, but he turned his back on God and returned to the filth and mire he had crawled out of. He not only was not willing to die for Christ; he was not willing to live for Him. If he ever was saved, he voluntarily rejected that salvation in favor of doing his own thing, spelled S-e-l-f. I strongly suspect that he was just as lost as the pervert who tried to molest him in the name of Jesus. Just another seed that sprouted on poor soil with shallow roots. I know that is not very touchy/feely, but the path is narrow. Some (most) stray off it. Terry the heretic. Now, don't go personal on me. Allow me to defend the above picture. For starters, he is a or was a real person. Secondly, his acceptance of Christ was associated with his picture of the youth counselor. The two realities were tied together. When molested, he considered it to be a testimony of the truth of gospel and that testimony was a negative one. This is a kid who has no educational background, is not trained to think but to only react, was a babe in Christ with a capital B. He did not reject the true gospel -- only the one presented to him. If he, indeed, rejected the truth, then things are not good for him. But only God knows the answer to this question. I did not mean to imply or argue that he was saved. My point is that we really do not know. God could take this young man's varied and negative circumstance into account and gve him a place with him through the sacrifice of Christ or allow his separation to continue. John
Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 9/24/2004 10:59:19 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You were doing pretty good up to this point my brother. The young man has a sad history, but he turned his back on God and returned to the filth and mire he had crawled out of. He not only was not willing to die for Christ; he was not willing to live for Him. If he ever was saved, he voluntarily rejected that salvation in favor of doing his own thing, spelled S-e-l-f. I strongly suspect that he was just as lost as the pervert who tried to molest him in the name of Jesus. Just another seed that sprouted on poor soil with shallow roots. I know that is not very touchy/feely, but the path is narrow. Some (most) stray off it. Terry the heretic. Now, don't go personal on me. Allow me to defend the above picture. For starters, he is a or was a real person. Secondly, his acceptance of Christ was associated with his picture of the youth counselor. The two realities were tied together. When molested, he considered it to be a testimony of the truth of gospel and that testimony was a negative one. This is a kid who has no educational background, is not trained to think but to only react, was a babe in Christ with a capital B. He did not reject the true gospel -- only the one presented to him. If he, indeed, rejected the truth, then things are not good for him. But only God knows the answer to this question. I did not mean to imply or argue that he was saved. My point is that we really do not know. God could take this young man's varied and negative circumstance into account and gve him a place with him through the sacrifice of Christ or allow his separation to continue. John Brother John, no one in this world hopes that Jesus is far more forgiving than His Word would indicate than yours truly. My son was killed in 1985, and I do not know where his spirit resides at this time. All I know is that wherever my son is spending eternity, God did what was right. The same can be said of this young man. While amazing grace abounds throughout the Word, the fact remains that God gave us a knowledge of good and evil the moment Eve ate the fruit, and we are all accountable to God even if we don't know His name. For those who have heard, eternal punishment awaits those who call Him Lord but do not do as He says. Sorry to have misunderstood you. Terry
Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment?
how about 'sports talk'? On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 08:11:58 -0500 "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I owned a hot air balloon for sport.
Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment?
Have a good weekend Lance. JD
RE: [TruthTalk] Judgment?
DaveH, My ex-husband and I owned a hot air balloon for sport. Its like buying a boatfor a while you love it, and then it gets old fast. No it wasnt my Dadjust a fellow balloonist. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave Hansen Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 10:57 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment? ShieldsFamily wrote: Very funny, Dave. Actually the two people I have known were (1) a woman who was in a quilting guild I used to belong to whose husband had won years ago and were living a nice normal life in a lovely home, and (2) a very ugly young man who put a bunch of numbers in a brown bag and shook it up to select his winning lottery number. Im sure he had no lack of beautiful women chasing him after that. He was the brother of an (equally ugly) man who worked behind the desk at the post office. They were both balloon team helpers back when I owned a hot air balloon, DAVEH: Really!?!?!?! Fascinating, Izzy! I didn't know you had those kind of hobbies. Or.did you do it as a business? and after he won there was one man who wished he hadnt chased him off from trying to date his daughter! DAVEH: Your dad??? ;-) I thought it was cosmic justice. J Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Dave Hansen Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 11:09 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment? DAVEH: I suppose the best place to meet such people in casinos, eh! I haven't yet met any big winners. I guess I don't spend as much time on those river boats as you do, Iz. ;-) ShieldsFamily wrote: PPS How many of you have ever known anyone who won a state lottery? (Ive known two.) -- ~~~Dave Hansen[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.langlitz.com~~~If you wish to receivethings I find interesting,I maintain Five email lists...JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,STUFF and MOTORCYCLE. -- ~~~Dave Hansen[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.langlitz.com~~~If you wish to receivethings I find interesting,I maintain Five email lists...JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.
Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment?
ShieldsFamily wrote: I believe the temple priests drew lots to see which one of them would enter the Holy of Holies once/year. I think that gambling isnt a problem if you are losing money you can easily afford to lose; ie: pocket money. On the other hand, it is sinful as it is a waste. You have gotten nothing for what you spent, except a few moments/days of hope that you might win. Then you get the bad newsit wasnt YOUR lottery ticket that won. Again. However, if you had invested each dollar you spent on each lottery ticket for several years, well, maybe you could have bought a rabbit! Izzy PS If you DO win, remember your old friends on TT! PPS How many of you have ever known anyone who won a state lottery? (Ive known two.) Just a couple of quick thoughts off the top of my head before it quits producing thoughts for the day. 1. Buying a dream for two bucks is a bargain, not a waste. 2. Shopping for clothing at some designer store instead of a Goodwill store is a waste. One will keep you from running around naked as well as the other, and do it a lot cheaper. ( I am not criticizing your shopping habits. I do not know where you shop.) 3. Not winning the lotto is not bad news. If I won, I would have to give up my carefree life and take on great responsibility. 4. Careful study and years of experience have proven that my chances of winning the lottery are about the same whether I play or not. 5. If I win, and you happen to be living in a cardboard box and eating from the refuse in a dump just outside Manila, you will be the first one I share with. Terry
Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment?
Terry Clifton wrote: Just a couple of quick thoughts off the top of my head before it quits producing thoughts for the day. 1. Buying a dream for two bucks is a bargain, DAVEH: And cheaper than buying a politician! not a waste. DAVEH: If one could limit the number of their dreams, you would be correct, Terry. The problem is that the folks who least can afford it become addicted and end up becoming enslaved to their dreams to the point they neglect reality..and their jobs, family and God. Terry -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain Five email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.
Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment?
Dave Hansen wrote: Terry Clifton wrote: Just a couple of quick thoughts off the top of my head before it quits producing thoughts for the day. 1. Buying a dream for two bucks is a bargain, DAVEH: And cheaper than buying a politician! not a waste. DAVEH: If one could limit the number of their dreams, you would be correct, Terry. The problem is that the folks who least can afford it become addicted and end up becoming enslaved to their dreams to the point they neglect reality..and their jobs, family and God. It ain't just the po' fokes Dave. Bill Bennett was a big wheel republican/Christian that got into gambling on a scale that cost him his credibility and his money. I contend that it is a problem with self far more than with financial standing in the community. Jesus command is to deny self and follow Him, but we are self absorbed self seeking, self willed, self made, self centered, selfish, self reliant, and on and on. Just about everything except what Paul advises, self control. Terry -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain Five email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.
RE: [TruthTalk] Judgment?
Very funny, Dave. Actually the two people I have known were (1) a woman who was in a quilting guild I used to belong to whose husband had won years ago and were living a nice normal life in a lovely home, and (2) a very ugly young man who put a bunch of numbers in a brown bag and shook it up to select his winning lottery number. Im sure he had no lack of beautiful women chasing him after that. He was the brother of an (equally ugly) man who worked behind the desk at the post office. They were both balloon team helpers back when I owned a hot air balloon, and after he won there was one man who wished he hadnt chased him off from trying to date his daughter! I thought it was cosmic justice. J Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave Hansen Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 11:09 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment? DAVEH: I suppose the best place to meet such people in casinos, eh! I haven't yet met any big winners. I guess I don't spend as much time on those river boats as you do, Iz. ;-) ShieldsFamily wrote: PPS How many of you have ever known anyone who won a state lottery? (Ive known two.) -- ~~~Dave Hansen[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.langlitz.com~~~If you wish to receivethings I find interesting,I maintain Five email lists...JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.
RE: [TruthTalk] Judgment?
Izzy in red below: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Terry Clifton Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 6:20 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment? ShieldsFamily wrote: I believe the temple priests drew lots to see which one of them would enter the Holy of Holies once/year. I think that gambling isnt a problem if you are losing money you can easily afford to lose; ie: pocket money. On the other hand, it is sinful as it is a waste. You have gotten nothing for what you spent, except a few moments/days of hope that you might win. Then you get the bad newsit wasnt YOUR lottery ticket that won. Again. However, if you had invested each dollar you spent on each lottery ticket for several years, well, maybe you could have bought a rabbit! Izzy PS If you DO win, remember your old friends on TT! PPS How many of you have ever known anyone who won a state lottery? (Ive known two.) Just a couple of quick thoughts off the top of my head before it quits producing thoughts for the day. 1. Buying a dream for two bucks is a bargain, not a waste. I agree. Youve heard the story about the man who kept praying to win the lottery without any success? Finally God spoke to him and said, Buy a ticket, stupid! Every now and then I buy a ticket just in case God was wanting me to winso far He has resisted the urge. 2. Shopping for clothing at some designer store instead of a Goodwill store is a waste. One will keep you from running around naked as well as the other, and do it a lot cheaper. ( I am not criticizing your shopping habits. I do not know where you shop.) It all depends upon whether you are a retired guy or a woman who would rather buy a nice outfit now and then than win the lottery. J 3. Not winning the lotto is not bad news. If I won, I would have to give up my carefree life and take on great responsibility. So true!!! Id like to read some stories about all the unfortunates who have won and it ruined their lives. Then I could console myself. 4. Careful study and years of experience have proven that my chances of winning the lottery are about the same whether I play or not. See #1 above: if you dont buy one there is ZERO chance. If you do buy there is one chance in about a billion. Somewhat better odds. 5. If I win, and you happen to be living in a cardboard box and eating from the refuse in a dump just outside Manila, you will be the first one I share with. How about a brick box in St. Louis? J If I ever win Im going to buy you the fanciest rabbit hutches I can find! Ive been making mental notes of all the places Id like to support. Maybe today Ill start writing them down. Its good to have concrete dreams. Then Ill be ready. (Oh, Id better get a new ticket when I go to the grocery store this week!!!) You may all email me your wish lists so I can add them to the list. J Izzy Terry
RE: [TruthTalk] Judgment?
Izzy in red below: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Terry Clifton Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 7:36 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment? Dave Hansen wrote: Terry Clifton wrote: Just a couple of quick thoughts off the top of my head before it quits producing thoughts for the day. 1. Buying a dream for two bucks is a bargain, DAVEH: And cheaper than buying a politician! not a waste. DAVEH: If one could limit the number of their dreams, you would be correct, Terry. The problem is that the folks who least can afford it become addicted and end up becoming enslaved to their dreams to the point they neglect reality..and their jobs, family and God. It ain't just the po' fokes Dave. Bill Bennett was a big wheel republican/Christian that got into gambling on a scale that cost him his credibility and his money. I contend that it is a problem with self far more than with financial standing in the community. Jesus command is to deny self and follow Him, but we are self absorbed self seeking, self willed, self made, self centered, selfish, self reliant, and on and on. Just about everything except what Paul advises, self control. Terry Terry, why do I always agree with you so much? (You should worry?) But on that topic: Self-control is a fruit of the Spirit, not a fruit of the Will. We must all be plugged into the Holy Spirit to receive it, just as a tree cant produce fruit w/o having deep roots. In the natural we all have self-control in some areas, and not in others. In the Spirit we can walk in self-control in every circumstanceeven those that tempt our flesh. The Spirit is the opposite of the Flesh. Abiding in the Spirit is the opposite of walking in our Feelings/Emotions/Lusts/Desires/etc. Just some thoughtsIzzy
RE: [TruthTalk] Judgment?
Izzy in red below: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Terry Clifton Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 6:20 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment? ShieldsFamily wrote: I believe the temple priests drew lots to see which one of them would enter the Holy of Holies once/year. I think that gambling isnt a problem if you are losing money you can easily afford to lose; ie: pocket money. On the other hand, it is sinful as it is a waste. You have gotten nothing for what you spent, except a few moments/days of hope that you might win. Then you get the bad newsit wasnt YOUR lottery ticket that won. Again. However, if you had invested each dollar you spent on each lottery ticket for several years, well, maybe you could have bought a rabbit! Izzy PS If you DO win, remember your old friends on TT! PPS How many of you have ever known anyone who won a state lottery? (Ive known two.) Just a couple of quick thoughts off the top of my head before it quits producing thoughts for the day. 1. Buying a dream for two bucks is a bargain, not a waste. I agree. Youve heard the story about the man who kept praying to win the lottery without any success? Finally God spoke to him and said, Buy a ticket, stupid! Every now and then I buy a ticket just in case God was wanting me to winso far He has resisted the urge. 2. Shopping for clothing at some designer store instead of a Goodwill store is a waste. One will keep you from running around naked as well as the other, and do it a lot cheaper. ( I am not criticizing your shopping habits. I do not know where you shop.) It all depends upon whether you are a retired guy or a woman who would rather buy a nice outfit now and then than win the lottery. J 3. Not winning the lotto is not bad news. If I won, I would have to give up my carefree life and take on great responsibility. So true!!! Id like to read some stories about all the unfortunates who have won and it ruined their lives. Then I could console myself. 4. Careful study and years of experience have proven that my chances of winning the lottery are about the same whether I play or not. See #1 above: if you dont buy one there is ZERO chance. If you do buy there is one chance in about a billion. Somewhat better odds. 5. If I win, and you happen to be living in a cardboard box and eating from the refuse in a dump just outside Manila, you will be the first one I share with. How about a brick box in St. Louis? J If I ever win Im going to buy you the fanciest rabbit hutches I can find! Ive been making mental notes of all the places Id like to support. Maybe today Ill start writing them down. Its good to have concrete dreams. Then Ill be ready. (Oh, Id better get a new ticket when I go to the grocery store this week!!!) You may all email me your wish lists so I can add them to the list. J Izzy Terry BTW, Id rather see Terry win the lottery than anyone!!! Lord, I pray you give Terry the perfect winning ticket this very week, so he can bless the people you have put on his heart, as well as his own family. GOD BLESS TERRY!!! In Jesus name, amen. (Let us know when to celebrate, Terry!)
RE: [TruthTalk] Judgment?
I was speaking in regards to the concept of "leaving it to chance" (so to speak), not an attempt to get a lot for little effort. Winning a door prize, drawing straws, casting lots, peering under bottle caps for a free Cokeand the like all fit in the "games of chance" category with gambling. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Terry CliftonSent: Monday, 20 September, 2004 22.18To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment?Slade Henson wrote: How about casting lots?==If I remember correctly, the priests at times cast lots to determine God's will. That was not gambling.The soldiers who crucified Jesus also cast lots for His garments. Since one of the garments was very well made and of some value, they would not want to divide it among themselves and end up with only rags, so they cast lots to determine who would own it. I have heard many people say that they gambled at the foot of the cross, but I do not see it that way. Like entering a drawing or hoping to win a door prize, they had nothing to lose, just something to gain. The winner had the garment. The others still had everything they had before. Similar to drawing straws.Waddayathink?Terry
RE: [TruthTalk] Judgment?
I believe the temple priests drew lots to see which one of them would enter the Holy of Holies once/year. Sorry. ONLY the High Priest was able to do that job. -- slade -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of ShieldsFamilySent: Monday, 20 September, 2004 23.48To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Judgment? I believe the temple priests drew lots to see which one of them would enter the Holy of Holies once/year. I think that gambling isnt a problem if you are losing money you can easily afford to lose; ie: pocket money. On the other hand, it is sinful as it is a waste. You have gotten nothing for what you spent, except a few moments/days of hope that you might win. Then you get the bad newsit wasnt YOUR lottery ticket that won. Again. However, if you had invested each dollar you spent on each lottery ticket for several years, well, maybe you could have bought a rabbit! Izzy PS If you DO win, remember your old friends on TT! PPS How many of you have ever known anyone who won a state lottery? (Ive known two.) From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Terry CliftonSent: Monday, September 20, 2004 8:18 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment? Slade Henson wrote: How about casting lots? ==If I remember correctly, the priests at times cast lots to determine God's will. That was not gambling.The soldiers who crucified Jesus also cast lots for His garments. Since one of the garments was very well made and of some value, they would not want to divide it among themselves and end up with only rags, so they cast lots to determine who would own it. I have heard many people say that they gambled at the foot of the cross, but I do not see it that way. Like entering a drawing or hoping to win a door prize, they had nothing to lose, just something to gain. The winner had the garment. The others still had everything they had before. Similar to drawing straws.Waddayathink?Terry
Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment?
ShieldsFamily wrote: Very funny, Dave. Actually the two people I have known were (1) a woman who was in a quilting guild I used to belong to whose husband had won years ago and were living a nice normal life in a lovely home, and (2) a very ugly young man who put a bunch of numbers in a brown bag and shook it up to select his winning lottery number. Im sure he had no lack of beautiful women chasing him after that. He was the brother of an (equally ugly) man who worked behind the desk at the post office. They were both balloon team helpers back when I owned a hot air balloon, DAVEH: Really!?!?!?! Fascinating, Izzy! I didn't know you had those kind of hobbies. Or.did you do it as a business? and after he won there was one man who wished he hadnt chased him off from trying to date his daughter! DAVEH: Your dad??? ;-) I thought it was cosmic justice. J Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Dave Hansen Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 11:09 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment? DAVEH: I suppose the best place to meet such people in casinos, eh! I haven't yet met any big winners. I guess I don't spend as much time on those river boats as you do, Iz. ;-) ShieldsFamily wrote: PPS How many of you have ever known anyone who won a state lottery? (Ive known two.) -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain Five email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF and MOTORCYCLE. -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain Five email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.
Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment?
Terry Clifton wrote: Dave Hansen wrote: Terry Clifton wrote: Just a couple of quick thoughts off the top of my head before it quits producing thoughts for the day. 1. Buying a dream for two bucks is a bargain, DAVEH: And cheaper than buying a politician! not a waste. DAVEH: If one could limit the number of their dreams, you would be correct, Terry. The problem is that the folks who least can afford it become addicted and end up becoming enslaved to their dreams to the point they neglect reality..and their jobs, family and God. It ain't just the po' fokes Dave. DAVEH: I agree, Terry. However, I think the poor folks pay a high price. Hm.I could be wrong about that though.. Bill Bennett was a big wheel republican/Christian that got into gambling on a scale that cost him his credibility and his money. I contend that it is a problem with self far more than with financial standing in the community. Jesus command is to deny self and follow Him, but we are self absorbed self seeking, self willed, self made, self centered, selfish, self reliant, and on and on. Just about everything except what Paul advises, self control. DAVEH: Well said, Terry. Terry -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain Five email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.
Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment?
In a message dated 9/19/2004 1:22:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: There are certain things that we ARE able to account for. A man's penis falling off because he was a whore is a true and just reward. A woman contracting a debilitating form of arthritis due to a high pork diet, too, is a just reward for a disobedient and ill-informed lifestyle. The things that strike the righteous along with the unrighteous should not be considered the vengeful acts of a pissed-off god. It should be considered the reaction of nature to the sheer weight of humanity's sin. -- slade Does "pissed off" have anything to do with "penis falling off"?
Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment?
In a message dated 9/19/2004 4:27:34 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: DAVEH: Hm..Perhaps the river boats and casinos aren't the focus of the punishment..maybe it is the Christian folks on them who are drawing his wrath ;-) ShieldsFamily wrote: Kind of like poor old Dan Rather. They work five years on their "story" but can't run it without false documents. J
Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment?
Why would God's standard only apply to Christians? The world out there is also responsible whether or not they realize it. Ignorance is no protection. Lawbreakers are cursed as we write according to God's Word. judyt On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 16:29:02 -0700 Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: DAVEH: Hm..Perhaps the river boats and casinos aren't the focus of the punishment..maybe it is the Christian folks on them who are drawing his wrath ;-) ShieldsFamily wrote: ==I missed something here Iz. Why would God punish a river boat or a casino?Terry Around here, the flood was called Gods answer to gambling. Izzy-- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain Five email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.
Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment?
I've been at a seminar all week where they dealt with sin issues. Not "gambling" per se but there is a spirit of addictions who takes a lot of ground in these scenarios. Of course there are also addictions to alcohol, food, shopping, etc. I don't see anything redeeming about gambling at all and recently it appears to have cropped up all over the world. On Indian reservations they have legal gambling noand many states (including VA) instituted State Lotteries (supposedly to help education and to build hospitals) but the reality is that they are running the State withproceeds from gambling - same in the State of Victoria Australia where they have some shocking fruit with women leaving infants and children in cars while they go inside to lose the grocery money. I don't want to judge or condemn anyone because what we do is between us and the Lord but IMO gambling has never been a blessing to a community - it's a curse and we would all be better off donating to whatever the need is. Grace and Peace, Judyt On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 20:52:28 -0500 "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Terry, Getting rich by robbing the poor is condemned in the Bible. Most of the folks you see tromping onto the boats are obviously down on their luck. I know people who have ruined their lives with gambling. I also have friends who consider gambling to be an innocent entertainment activity, and they take a certain amount of money and dont gamble away any more than that, and I dont mind that they do. However, I dont consider it wise stewardship, and I dont know of any serious Believers who waste their time or money that way. I dont like living in a state that gains tax money from casinos that take advantage of the poor and the compulsive gamblers. It also promotes corruptionwhere there is big money there is always that danger. So whats your viewpoint? Do you think gambling is okay? I think spending a buck on a lottery ticket or a raffle quilt passes as harmless entertainment; giving you a chance to daydream about winning if nothing else. And far be it from me to rob the old folks of their Bingo fun! But, like so many other grey areas, where do you draw the line? Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Terry CliftonSent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 5:20 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment? ShieldsFamily wrote: ShieldsFamily wrote: Around here, the flood was called Gods answer to gambling. Izzy As near as I can tell Iz, there is nothing about gambling being a sin in the Bible. Can you point me to a verse that I may have missed?Terry
Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment?
Judith H Taylor wrote: I've been at a seminar all week where they dealt with sin issues. Not "gambling" per se but there is a spirit of addictions who takes a lot of ground in these scenarios. Of course there are also addictions to alcohol, food, shopping, etc. I don't see anything redeeming about gambling at all and recently it appears to have cropped up all over the world. On Indian reservations they have legal gambling noand many states (including VA) instituted State Lotteries (supposedly to help education and to build hospitals) but the reality is that they are running the State withproceeds from gambling - same in the State of Victoria Australia where they have some shocking fruit with women leaving infants and children in cars while they go inside to lose the grocery money. I don't want to judge or condemn anyone because what we do is between us and the Lord but IMO gambling has never been a blessing to a community - it's a curse and we would all be better off donating to whatever the need is. --- There is no argument that gambling is not a blessing. It is most certainly not a gift from God. At the same time, it can only be a curse to those with no SELF control. Terry
Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment?
OK, so I'm not aware of a verse (off the top of my head) that acknowledges that gambling occured in biblical times. However, archeaology has shown that gambling existed. With that in mind, just when did gambling suddenly just pop up?:) Jeff - Original Message - From: Judith H Taylor To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 9:34 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment? I've been at a seminar all week where they dealt with sin issues. Not "gambling" per se but there is a spirit of addictions who takes a lot of ground in these scenarios. Of course there are also addictions to alcohol, food, shopping, etc. I don't see anything redeeming about gambling at all and recently it appears to have cropped up all over the world. On Indian reservations they have legal gambling noand many states (including VA) instituted State Lotteries (supposedly to help education and to build hospitals) but the reality is that they are running the State withproceeds from gambling - same in the State of Victoria Australia where they have some shocking fruit with women leaving infants and children in cars while they go inside to lose the grocery money. I don't want to judge or condemn anyone because what we do is between us and the Lord but IMO gambling has never been a blessing to a community - it's a curse and we would all be better off donating to whatever the need is. Grace and Peace, Judyt On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 20:52:28 -0500 "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Terry, Getting rich by robbing the poor is condemned in the Bible. Most of the folks you see tromping onto the boats are obviously down on their luck. I know people who have ruined their lives with gambling. I also have friends who consider gambling to be an innocent entertainment activity, and they take a certain amount of money and dont gamble away any more than that, and I dont mind that they do. However, I dont consider it wise stewardship, and I dont know of any serious Believers who waste their time or money that way. I dont like living in a state that gains tax money from casinos that take advantage of the poor and the compulsive gamblers. It also promotes corruptionwhere there is big money there is always that danger. So whats your viewpoint? Do you think gambling is okay? I think spending a buck on a lottery ticket or a raffle quilt passes as harmless entertainment; giving you a chance to daydream about winning if nothing else. And far be it from me to rob the old folks of their Bingo fun! But, like so many other grey areas, where do you draw the line? Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Terry CliftonSent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 5:20 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment? ShieldsFamily wrote: ShieldsFamily wrote: Around here, the flood was called Gods answer to gambling. Izzy As near as I can tell Iz, there is nothing about gambling being a sin in the Bible. Can you point me to a verse that I may have missed?Terry
RE: [TruthTalk] Judgment?
How about casting lots? -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Jeff PowersSent: Monday, 20 September, 2004 18.19To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment? OK, so I'm not aware of a verse (off the top of my head) that acknowledges that gambling occured in biblical times. However, archeaology has shown that gambling existed. With that in mind, just when did gambling suddenly just pop up?:) Jeff - Original Message - From: Judith H Taylor To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 9:34 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment? I've been at a seminar all week where they dealt with sin issues. Not "gambling" per se but there is a spirit of addictions who takes a lot of ground in these scenarios. Of course there are also addictions to alcohol, food, shopping, etc. I don't see anything redeeming about gambling at all and recently it appears to have cropped up all over the world. On Indian reservations they have legal gambling noand many states (including VA) instituted State Lotteries (supposedly to help education and to build hospitals) but the reality is that they are running the State withproceeds from gambling - same in the State of Victoria Australia where they have some shocking fruit with women leaving infants and children in cars while they go inside to lose the grocery money. I don't want to judge or condemn anyone because what we do is between us and the Lord but IMO gambling has never been a blessing to a community - it's a curse and we would all be better off donating to whatever the need is. Grace and Peace, Judyt On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 20:52:28 -0500 "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Terry, Getting rich by robbing the poor is condemned in the Bible. Most of the folks you see tromping onto the boats are obviously down on their luck. I know people who have ruined their lives with gambling. I also have friends who consider gambling to be an innocent entertainment activity, and they take a certain amount of money and dont gamble away any more than that, and I dont mind that they do. However, I dont consider it wise stewardship, and I dont know of any serious Believers who waste their time or money that way. I dont like living in a state that gains tax money from casinos that take advantage of the poor and the compulsive gamblers. It also promotes corruptionwhere there is big money there is always that danger. So whats your viewpoint? Do you think gambling is okay? I think spending a buck on a lottery ticket or a raffle quilt passes as harmless entertainment; giving you a chance to daydream about winning if nothing else. And far be it from me to rob the old folks of their Bingo fun! But, like so many other grey areas, where do you draw the line? Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Terry CliftonSent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 5:20 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment? ShieldsFamily wrote: ShieldsFamily wrote: Around here, the flood was called Gods answer to gambling. Izzy As near as I can tell Iz, there is nothing about gambling being a sin in the Bible. Can you point me to a verse that I may have missed?Terry
Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment?
Slade Henson wrote: How about casting lots? == If I remember correctly, the priests at times cast lots to determine God's will. That was not gambling. The soldiers who crucified Jesus also cast lots for His garments. Since one of the garments was very well made and of some value, they would not want to divide it among themselves and end up with only rags, so they cast lots to determine who would own it. I have heard many people say that they gambled at the foot of the cross, but I do not see it that way. Like entering a drawing or hoping to win a door prize, they had nothing to lose, just something to gain. The winner had the garment. The others still had everything they had before. Similar to drawing straws. Waddayathink? Terry
RE: [TruthTalk] Judgment?
Jt: HintI think we were both kidding. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judith H Taylor Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 7:20 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment? Why would God's standard only apply to Christians? The world out there is also responsible whether or not they realize it. Ignorance is no protection. Lawbreakers are cursed as we write according to God's Word. judyt On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 16:29:02 -0700 Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: DAVEH: Hm..Perhaps the river boats and casinos aren't the focus of the punishment..maybe it is the Christian folks on them who are drawing his wrath ;-) ShieldsFamily wrote: == I missed something here Iz. Why would God punish a river boat or a casino? Terry Around here, the flood was called Gods answer to gambling. Izzy -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain Five email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.
RE: [TruthTalk] Judgment?
I believe the temple priests drew lots to see which one of them would enter the Holy of Holies once/year. I think that gambling isnt a problem if you are losing money you can easily afford to lose; ie: pocket money. On the other hand, it is sinful as it is a waste. You have gotten nothing for what you spent, except a few moments/days of hope that you might win. Then you get the bad newsit wasnt YOUR lottery ticket that won. Again. However, if you had invested each dollar you spent on each lottery ticket for several years, well, maybe you could have bought a rabbit! Izzy PS If you DO win, remember your old friends on TT! PPS How many of you have ever known anyone who won a state lottery? (Ive known two.) From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Terry Clifton Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 8:18 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment? Slade Henson wrote: How about casting lots? == If I remember correctly, the priests at times cast lots to determine God's will. That was not gambling. The soldiers who crucified Jesus also cast lots for His garments. Since one of the garments was very well made and of some value, they would not want to divide it among themselves and end up with only rags, so they cast lots to determine who would own it. I have heard many people say that they gambled at the foot of the cross, but I do not see it that way. Like entering a drawing or hoping to win a door prize, they had nothing to lose, just something to gain. The winner had the garment. The others still had everything they had before. Similar to drawing straws. Waddayathink? Terry
Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment?
DAVEH: I suppose the best place to meet such people in casinos, eh! I haven't yet met any big winners. I guess I don't spend as much time on those river boats as you do, Iz. ;-) ShieldsFamily wrote: PPS How many of you have ever known anyone who won a state lottery? (Ive known two.) -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain Five email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.
RE: [TruthTalk] Judgment?
Hello, my good friend Izzy! I must admit that there is a bit of a problem with us trying to decide if this or that disaster is the hand of a punishing God. We do have a small piece of the Spirit of God within us but we don't have all of His consciousness and thoughts within us. (Finite containing the infinite? Hardly.) There are certain things that we ARE able to account for. A man's penis falling off because he was a whore is a true and just reward. A woman contracting a debilitating form of arthritis due to a high pork diet, too, is a just reward for a disobedient and ill-informed lifestyle. The things that strike the righteous along with the unrighteous should not be considered the vengeful acts of a pissed-off god. It should be considered the reaction of nature to the sheer weight of humanity's sin. -- slade -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of ShieldsFamilySent: Sunday, 19 September, 2004 14.49To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [TruthTalk] Judgment? Perhaps Florida did not execute Paul Hill fast enough? I think Im with Terrynatural weather is natural weather. It doesnt mean we cant pray to be spared, however. BTW, I remember when Missouri and other states in the Midwest voted to allow riverboat (river-side) gambling casinos, in spite of those of us who were strongly against it. The following summer we dealt with the Great Flood of 93. Somehow it did seem appropriate as Gods judgment. It seems to me that a good parent, when disciplining a child, will make the punishment somehow relate to the crime. This seemed to fit like a glove. Have you ever noticed that in individual lives? Perhaps I just have a weird way of looking at things in the spiritual realm. (Shut up Lance and G! J ) But I often think that if you really know a bit about the secret life of certain people you can make out just why God has allowed certain problems or challenges or judgments, or whatever you want to call it into their lives. Certainly one cannot, like Jobs friends make such assumptions that problems indicate judgment. But sometimes its hard to avoid what seems like an obvious connection. Like the man who spent his life in sexual sin developing a certain disabling penile disease. Or the woman who spent her life berating and controlling her children, only to spend her later years being dominated and berated by her own husband. Am I being too real here? As much as we want to, I dont think we can laugh off the reality of reaping (after many days) the fruit of what we have sown over decades of rebellion to God. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Slade HensonSent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 8:32 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: RE: Re: [TruthTalk] Kruger Oh my God, John... We know some of the same people. Neal Horsley mailed this same article to me. I was going to publish something on TruthTalk on this same subject but chose not to. If anything, the hurricanes should NOT be hitting Florida BECAUSE Florida executed the murderer Paul Hill. -- slade -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Sunday, 19 September, 2004 06.52To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Kruger I am not of this persuasion but it does illustrate the extremes we might experience when we walk down the road of "judgmental" discovery -- i.e. why "God has placed Florida under physical judgment." http://www.christiangallery.com/WrathofGod.htmJohn
Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment?
ShieldsFamily wrote: Perhaps Florida did not execute Paul Hill fast enough? I think Im with Terrynatural weather is natural weather. It doesnt mean we cant pray to be spared, however. BTW, I remember when Missouri and other states in the Midwest voted to allow riverboat (river-side) gambling casinos, in spite of those of us who were strongly against it. The following summer we dealt with the Great Flood of 93. Somehow it did seem appropriate as Gods judgment. == I missed something here Iz. Why would God punish a river boat or a casino? Terry
RE: [TruthTalk] Judgment?
Slade, my Bud! Actually, the God of the Bible is sometimes shown to be a pretty p---d of God! I think that is only after much longsuffering mercy has failed to bring a person or nation to repentance. But I normally think of Gods judgment as something a loving Father does as a last resort to turn someone or some nation from a potentially fatal state of sin and destruction. Prior to that point He lovingly sends many ever-stronger reproofs. The early reproofs are just enough to get your attention if you are paying attention. Then, if unheeded, they grow ever-stronger until the point of judgment, which is like getting hit over the head with a sledgehammeryou just cant ignore it! Heres a thought to consider: What if EVERY COMMANDMENT in the Bible was really there to PROTECT US FROM HARM? Wouldnt that be special? (I think they are!) Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Slade Henson Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 2:22 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Judgment? Hello, my good friend Izzy! I must admit that there is a bit of a problem with us trying to decide if this or that disaster is the hand of a punishing God. We do have a small piece of the Spirit of God within us but we don't have all of His consciousness and thoughts within us. (Finite containing the infinite? Hardly.) There are certain things that we ARE able to account for. A man's penis falling off because he was a whore is a true and just reward. A woman contracting a debilitating form of arthritis due to a high pork diet, too, is a just reward for a disobedient and ill-informed lifestyle. The things that strike the righteous along with the unrighteous should not be considered the vengeful acts of a pissed-off god. It should be considered the reaction of nature to the sheer weight of humanity's sin. -- slade -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of ShieldsFamily Sent: Sunday, 19 September, 2004 14.49 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [TruthTalk] Judgment? Perhaps Florida did not execute Paul Hill fast enough? I think Im with Terrynatural weather is natural weather. It doesnt mean we cant pray to be spared, however. BTW, I remember when Missouri and other states in the Midwest voted to allow riverboat (river-side) gambling casinos, in spite of those of us who were strongly against it. The following summer we dealt with the Great Flood of 93. Somehow it did seem appropriate as Gods judgment. It seems to me that a good parent, when disciplining a child, will make the punishment somehow relate to the crime. This seemed to fit like a glove. Have you ever noticed that in individual lives? Perhaps I just have a weird way of looking at things in the spiritual realm. (Shut up Lance and G! J ) But I often think that if you really know a bit about the secret life of certain people you can make out just why God has allowed certain problems or challenges or judgments, or whatever you want to call it into their lives. Certainly one cannot, like Jobs friends make such assumptions that problems indicate judgment. But sometimes its hard to avoid what seems like an obvious connection. Like the man who spent his life in sexual sin developing a certain disabling penile disease. Or the woman who spent her life berating and controlling her children, only to spend her later years being dominated and berated by her own husband. Am I being too real here? As much as we want to, I dont think we can laugh off the reality of reaping (after many days) the fruit of what we have sown over decades of rebellion to God. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Slade Henson Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 8:32 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Re: [TruthTalk] Kruger Oh my God, John... We know some of the same people. Neal Horsley mailed this same article to me. I was going to publish something on TruthTalk on this same subject but chose not to. If anything, the hurricanes should NOT be hitting Florida BECAUSE Florida executed the murderer Paul Hill. -- slade -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, 19 September, 2004 06.52 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Kruger I am not of this persuasion but it does illustrate the extremes we might experience when we walk down the road of judgmental discovery -- i.e. why God has placed Florida under physical judgment. http://www.christiangallery.com/WrathofGod.htm John
RE: [TruthTalk] Judgment?
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Terry Clifton Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 3:20 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment? ShieldsFamily wrote: Perhaps Florida did not execute Paul Hill fast enough? I think Im with Terrynatural weather is natural weather. It doesnt mean we cant pray to be spared, however. BTW, I remember when Missouri and other states in the Midwest voted to allow riverboat (river-side) gambling casinos, in spite of those of us who were strongly against it. The following summer we dealt with the Great Flood of 93. Somehow it did seem appropriate as Gods judgment. == I missed something here Iz. Why would God punish a river boat or a casino? Terry Around here, the flood was called Gods answer to gambling. Izzy
RE: [TruthTalk] Judgment?
FunnyI thought it was all those mormons! Iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave Hansen Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 5:29 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment? DAVEH: Hm..Perhaps the river boats and casinos aren't the focus of the punishment..maybe it is the Christian folks on them who are drawing his wrath ;-) ShieldsFamily wrote: == I missed something here Iz. Why would God punish a river boat or a casino? Terry Around here, the flood was called Gods answer to gambling. Izzy -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain Five email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.
Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment?
ShieldsFamily wrote: ShieldsFamily wrote: Around here, the flood was called Gods answer to gambling. Izzy As near as I can tell Iz, there is nothing about gambling being a sin in the Bible. Can you point me to a verse that I may have missed? Terry
RE: [TruthTalk] Judgment?
Terry, Getting rich by robbing the poor is condemned in the Bible. Most of the folks you see tromping onto the boats are obviously down on their luck. I know people who have ruined their lives with gambling. I also have friends who consider gambling to be an innocent entertainment activity, and they take a certain amount of money and dont gamble away any more than that, and I dont mind that they do. However, I dont consider it wise stewardship, and I dont know of any serious Believers who waste their time or money that way. I dont like living in a state that gains tax money from casinos that take advantage of the poor and the compulsive gamblers. It also promotes corruptionwhere there is big money there is always that danger. So whats your viewpoint? Do you think gambling is okay? I think spending a buck on a lottery ticket or a raffle quilt passes as harmless entertainment; giving you a chance to daydream about winning if nothing else. And far be it from me to rob the old folks of their Bingo fun! But, like so many other grey areas, where do you draw the line? Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Terry Clifton Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 5:20 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment? ShieldsFamily wrote: ShieldsFamily wrote: Around here, the flood was called Gods answer to gambling. Izzy As near as I can tell Iz, there is nothing about gambling being a sin in the Bible. Can you point me to a verse that I may have missed? Terry
Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment?
ShieldsFamily wrote: Terry, Getting rich by robbing the poor is condemned in the Bible. Most of the folks you see tromping onto the boats are obviously down on their luck. I know people who have ruined their lives with gambling. I also have friends who consider gambling to be an innocent entertainment activity, and they take a certain amount of money and dont gamble away any more than that, and I dont mind that they do. However, I dont consider it wise stewardship, and I dont know of any serious Believers who waste their time or money that way. I dont like living in a state that gains tax money from casinos that take advantage of the poor and the compulsive gamblers. It also promotes corruptionwhere there is big money there is always that danger. So whats your viewpoint? Do you think gambling is okay? I think spending a buck on a lottery ticket or a raffle quilt passes as harmless entertainment; giving you a chance to daydream about winning if nothing else. And far be it from me to rob the old folks of their Bingo fun! But, like so many other grey areas, where do you draw the line? Izzy You draw the line when your actions become SELFish. (Most all sin seems to me to be about SELF.) I know that a man who spends the family food money to play poker is sinning. Any bet would be a sin if you had lust in your heart for another persons possessions, but the sin would be lust, not gambling. I buy two lotto tickets almost every week. If I ever win, I will use it to help orphan children in Nicaragua and the Philipines. These are children that I have never met, but the Lord has given me a burden for them that we cannot begin to fulfill. I know that the odds of winning are twenty million to one, but like you say, it allows me to dream. I would not do it if it were illegal or if there was something wrong with it biblically, but I ignore preachers and misunderstanding Christians who condemn it. As always, God looks at the heart, and I am comfortable with that arrangement. Terry
Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment?
On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 21:33:40 -0400 Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ShieldsFamily wrote [re:]: Getting rich.. speaking of what God thinks "..Babylon..has become a home for demons and a haunt for every evil spirit,a haunt for every unclean and detestable bird.3 For all the nations have drunk the maddening wine of her adulteries. The kings of the earth committed adultery with her, and the merchants of the earth grew rich from her excessive luxuries."4Then I heard another voice from heaven say: "Come out of her, my people,so that you will not share in her sins,so that you will not receive any of her plagues;5 for her sins are piled up to heaven,and God has remembered her crimes... 1Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming upon you. 2Your wealth has rotted, and moths have eaten your clothes. 3Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days. 4Look! The wages you failed to pay the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty. 5You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter..
