RE: [U2] RE: mv.NET and UO

[Bill Haskett]

Tony:

Just as an aside, if you have access to the U2 Knowledge Base you can go to the
following link:



This has a zip file with a "configcp" .NET project.  One can test the 
connection pool
this way.  I ran the "configcp.exe" in the "...\configcp\bin\Debug" directory, 
logged
in then ran the LISTUSER verb and got:

3 Demo (0)-> LU

Licensed(UDT+CP)/Effective  Udt Sql iPhtm   Pooled  Total

(  10 + 1   ) / 11  1   0   0   1   2

UDTNO USRNBR  UID USRNAME   USRTYPE  TTYIP-ADDRESSTIME DATE
  1   3644 197615 wphaskett phantom pts/1   Console   11:04:43 Jun 27 2007
  2   1312 197635 DataTrust pooled  pts/2   udcs  22:42:15 Jul 18 2007
  3   3092 197615 wphaskett udt pts/3   192.168.1.101 22:42:30 Jul 18 2007

Bill

>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tony Gravagno
>Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 8:07 PM
>To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
>Subject: RE: [U2] RE: mv.NET and UO
>
>LeRoy Dreyfuss wrote:
>> Tony,
>> How long is "a long time now"? I have quite a bit of history with the
>> product and if BF enabled it for UO.NET, it would only be from v3
>> (and I haven't time to confirm if it is v3), which is a fairly new
>> version.
>
>Long time = over a year now.  Current release is v3.5.0.5.  I
>keep my clients informed about the latest releases - your vendor 
>should do you the same favor.  ;)
>
>> Having said that, mv.NET doesn't dictate whether connection
>> pooling has been properly licensed (which in enables it as well) on
>> the U2 server.
>
>Correct, never said anything different.  Since mv.NET uses its 
>own pooling, the presence or absence of CP is irrelevant. 
>
>> Also, I provided a link in my previous post to an IBM
>> white paper that should demonstrate coding with CP in mind.
>
>After I hit the send button on my last note I kicked myself for not
>expressing gratitude for that link to ibmu2.microsoftnet.pdf.  
>I have an
>old v1 copy of that and I want to thank you very much for the v2 link.
>
>Yes, I see the code in there:
>  UniObjects.UOPooling = true;
>  UniObjects.MinPoolSize = 1;
>  UniObjects.MaxPoolSize = 10;
>It looks very easy and one of these days I'm sure I'll make use of it.
>
>Regards,
>T
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RE: [U2] RE: mv.NET and UO

[Tony Gravagno]

LeRoy Dreyfuss wrote:
> Tony,
> How long is "a long time now"? I have quite a bit of history with the
> product and if BF enabled it for UO.NET, it would only be from v3
> (and I haven't time to confirm if it is v3), which is a fairly new
> version.

Long time = over a year now.  Current release is v3.5.0.5.  I keep my
clients informed about the latest releases - your vendor should do you the
same favor.  ;)

> Having said that, mv.NET doesn't dictate whether connection
> pooling has been properly licensed (which in enables it as well) on
> the U2 server.

Correct, never said anything different.  Since mv.NET uses its own pooling,
the presence or absence of CP is irrelevant. 

> Also, I provided a link in my previous post to an IBM
> white paper that should demonstrate coding with CP in mind.

After I hit the send button on my last note I kicked myself for not
expressing gratitude for that link to ibmu2.microsoftnet.pdf.  I have an
old v1 copy of that and I want to thank you very much for the v2 link.

Yes, I see the code in there:
  UniObjects.UOPooling = true;
  UniObjects.MinPoolSize = 1;
  UniObjects.MaxPoolSize = 10;
It looks very easy and one of these days I'm sure I'll make use of it.

Regards,
T
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Re: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

[Dawn Wolthuis]

On 7/18/07, Anthony W. Youngman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Mats Carlid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes
>Anthony W. Youngman skrev:
>>
>> At which point, you hit my hobbyhorse ... "In the real world ..." -
>>relational database theory has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING whatsoever to do
>>with the real world. It's an exercise in pure maths.
>>
>>
>
>And You hit my hobbyhorse or rather  one of them :-) ...
>
>RDMS theory is absolutely not pure maths!

So you'd say it's applied maths?


Sorry to be so chatty lately (still trying not to get sent to
u2-community with every topic that interests me ;-)  but you (Wol)
know you are hitting my buttons now too.

It is a fact that many "relational theorists" try to keep their
"realtional theory" work to the realm of pure mathematics.  If you
read Date or Pascal, for example, they would suggest that relational
theory is pure math which may be applied to databases.

The term "relation" is a mathematical term.  "Relationship" is another
mathematical term and through language misuse combined perhaps with an
attempt to use a term that might not get confused with the English
meaning of "relationship" (which it does anyway), Codd opted to talk
about "relations" and that was close enough for his purposes.

One can do relational theory while working exclusively within
mathematics, originally remaining within set theory but predicate
logic is another branch of mathematics in which relational theory is
done today.

When this theory from set theory or predicate logic is applied to data
modeling or databases, it becomes applied.  So, from a purist
standpoint, I'll vote with Wol on this.  However, the Computer Science
community also uses the terms "relational theory" or "relational
modeling" or "relational databases" without placing any of these
strictly within the domain of pure mathematics.  So, as used by the CS
discipline, it is applied mathematics.  Applied mathematics has no
such claim to objectivity in the sense that if one chooses an
inappropriate mathematical model (many examples of this in the history
of science, but none popping to mine immediately), your applied
mathematics is flawed.

For example, if we say that Elmasri wrote a book on the fundamentals
of database systems and Navathe wrote a book on the fundamentals of
database systems and you decide to model this by assigning "1 book on
..." to Elmasri and "1 book on..." to Navathe and then decide to use
the + operator and conclude that "Elmasri and Navathe wrote two books
on the fundamentals of database systems" you would be wrong if they
are co-authors of one such book.

I know that you (Wol) and I both think this is biggest issue with
database theory--they came up with a mathematical "relational theory"
that had single-valued attributes, e.g. and then applied it to
databases. Many theorists have since worked with more complex
mathematics, while the applications of the simpler models or residue
thereof remain throughout "applied database theory" in SQL, Oracle,
etc.


Getting off-topic, but I've never
really understood the difference (as in how it is defined) between pure
and applied.


Did my above help to clarify that?  In pure mathematics you can
"prove" mathematically (ignoring some fringe debates) from primitives
(axioms) that your result is accurate.  With applied mathematics, you
can prove that the mathematics involved is accurate (1+1=2 which comes
from axioms/defs for these), but there is no mathematical proof that
you are applying it properly.


I know you can look at a problem and "know" which is which,
but how do you define it?
>
>In pure maths a relation is the set of tuples (ordered lists of n
>elements {e1,e2,e3...en } where the first element e1 belongs to  a set
>S1 and e2 to set S2 etc.
>and there are no limitations on the nature of theses sets.
>Not even that the elements must be atomic - in contrary they may be
>sets themselves
>or lists ( like our multivalues ) or even relations ( like our
>associations ).
>
>Pure maths doesn't limit the nature of the defining sets at all -
>a set consisiting of my car, the north pole,the number pi and the set
>of all real numbers is valid.
>
>Thats a long way from  rdbms  integers,date, fixed length strings etc..
>.
>The explicit goal of Codds rules ( at least in the paper where I read them)
>is to limit this to something that is possible to handle on
>computer  hardware  (of the 70-ies!?) as well as  allowing  a relative
>easy formulation of select criteria,
>constraints etc.


and a desire to decouple application iprogramming from physical
database storage for large shared databanks.


>
>From an u2 or pick view Codd choose to include unecessary contraints on
>relations
>for the RDBMS,


Yes.


>But that doesnt make it more or less mathematical than the pick model..


This is where I agree with Mats, if I am catching onto who wrote what.


Actually, I'd say Codd made the RDBMS a damn sight *more* mathematical
than the Pick model :-)


He was ex

RE: [U2] RE: mv.NET and UO

[LeRoy Dreyfuss]

Tony,

How long is "a long time now"? I have quite a bit of history with the product 
and if BF enabled it for UO.NET, it would only be from v3 (and I haven't time 
to confirm if it is v3), which is a fairly new version. Having said that, 
mv.NET doesn't dictate whether connection pooling has been properly licensed 
(which in enables it as well) on the U2 server. Also, I provided a link in my 
previous post to an IBM white paper that should demonstrate coding with CP in 
mind.

Regards,

LeRoy


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tony Gravagno
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 5:46 PM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: [U2] RE: mv.NET and UO

Just to clarify - mv.NET can use standard UO but has also been enabled to
use UO.NET for a long time now, and standard UO might not even be supported
in a near-future release.  It's preferable to use managed components all
the way through, so UO.NET is the preferred pipe.
T

LeRoy Dreyfuss wrote:
> mv.NET from BlueFinity would be using standard UniObjects and as
> such, could not take advantage of connection pooling from U2 (CP).
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RE: [U2] U2 University link

[bpaige]

Phil said:
"Hopefully the content will satisfy the expectations I have as I am used to
the standard U2
courses of old, which for me a least as a tutor, were very basic, excuse the
pun."

I agree with Phil.  My other concern is that these are going to be closer to
sales pitches rather than "how to's".  I'm hoping there won't be too much
"this is was it'll do in the next release".

Brian
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Re: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

[Dawn Wolthuis]

If I recall correctly (and I might not), you can lobby your VAR to let
all of their customers have access to the knowledgebase and IBM will
open it up to them.  (Good luck with that my Datatel-customer friends,
although maybe it has happened and I'm behind the times)  smiles.
--dawn

On 7/18/07, Jerry Banker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Yes and no, yes to anything without a key next to it, which is usually
nothing technical or helpful. The frustration comes from getting emails
directly from IBM saying there is a white paper or tech bulletin that
pertains to U2 with some pretty useful information, but when I follow
the link to the paper, it is restricted and has that little key next to
it. No matter how many different ways I log in I can't get to it. And,
of course, I get an email from IBM that says I just tried to access
something I'm not allowed to look at. It's not like I am depriving my
var from anything. We buy the licenses to UV from them, have them set up
our systems, and if there is a system problem we usually call them but
that is the extent of our relationship. They don't sell a software
product we can use. As a matter-of-fact we are a Linux/Unix shop and
they deal mostly with Windows.

-Original Message-
From: David Murray [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 3:09 PM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

Jerry,

Do you have currently have access to the knowledgebase?

It is possible (as I have had access before), but access by an end-user
seems to be the exception rather the norm.

Is anyone from IBM in this mail list want to comment?

Cheers,

David Murray


.learn and do
.excel and share

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jerry Banker
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 2:55 PM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

So what you are saying is that a shop like ours that has over the years
developed everything in-house and the applications are specifically
geared to our business and can be changed as our business changes is out
of luck when it comes to getting into the knowledgebase. Just because we
don't buy an application from anyone we are excluded from something that
might help us build it better and faster.

-Original Message-
From: David Murray [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 1:10 PM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

And it is the reason that I would never recommend in-house software
development with any U2 products. You will always be flying blind.

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RE: [U2] U2 University link

[phil walker]

Wally,

Thanks for providing those details the locations and prices and topics
at least are better than I expected, so well done. Hopefully the content
will satisfy the expectations I have as I am used to the standard U2
courses of old, which for me a least as a tutor, were very basic, excuse
the pun.

What I think people, like myself, are after is more of a real world
example where you can be lead through it and then hopefully then apply
the technology and best practices to the business problems at hand. It
is all very well being told this is a hammer, nail, piece of wood, go
build a house. Some people are DIY and want to know how, even if they do
not end up doing the work. To cover this is such a short period of time
would be impossible, hence a nicely worked examples, easily accessible
and downloadable would be great.

Knowing how the components should be put together in a real world
situation is the key. So that people on this list do not get frustrated
and move elsewhere.

Cheers,

Phil



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wally Terhune
Sent: Thursday, 19 July 2007 6:01 a.m.
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: [U2] U2 University link

Phil Walker wrote:
* Firstly, where are they held and what costs are involved

http://www.ibm.com/software/info/u2/university/index.jsp
|---+---
--|
|Wally Terhune  |Register today for the premier U2
|
|U2 Support Architect   |technical event!
|
|   |
|
|4700 South Syracuse Street |
|
|Denver, CO 80237   |
|
|Tel: (303) 773-7969   T/L  |
|
|656-7969   |
|
|Mobile: (303) 807-6222 |
|
|Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]   |
|
|http://www.ibm.com/software/dat|
|
|a/u2   |
|
|---+---
--|

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name
of 1F220548.jpg]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name
of 1F809955.jpg]
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Re: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

[Anthony W. Youngman]

In message 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, 
Mark Eastwood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes

And just for amusement - both Tab and Hayden (at one time) ran their
Accounting/Warehouse/Distribution/Subscription systems on "Pick".

Mark


As did (maybe still do) I believe O'Reilly ...

Cheers,
Wol


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jerry Banker
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 8:14 AM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

I was looking at our bookshelf, we have the old series of soft cover
manuals from V-Mark on UniVerse and then we have several books on PICK,
none of which is new. Our PICK books are from 1985 to 1990 mostly
published by TAB Professional and Reference Books, one is from Hayden
Book Company;
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--
Anthony W. Youngman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
'Yings, yow graley yin! Suz ae rikt dheu,' said the blue man, taking the
thimble. 'What *is* he?' said Magrat. 'They're gnomes,' said Nanny. The man
lowered the thimble. 'Pictsies!' Carpe Jugulum, Terry Pratchett 1998
Visit the MaVerick web-site -  Open Source Pick
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Re: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

[Anthony W. Youngman]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Mats Carlid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes

Anthony W. Youngman skrev:


At which point, you hit my hobbyhorse ... "In the real world ..." - 
relational database theory has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING whatsoever to do 
with the real world. It's an exercise in pure maths.





And You hit my hobbyhorse or rather  one of them :-) ...

RDMS theory is absolutely not pure maths!


So you'd say it's applied maths? Getting off-topic, but I've never 
really understood the difference (as in how it is defined) between pure 
and applied. I know you can look at a problem and "know" which is which, 
but how do you define it?


In pure maths a relation is the set of tuples (ordered lists of n 
elements {e1,e2,e3...en } where the first element e1 belongs to  a set 
S1 and e2 to set S2 etc.

and there are no limitations on the nature of theses sets.
Not even that the elements must be atomic - in contrary they may be 
sets themselves
or lists ( like our multivalues ) or even relations ( like our 
associations ).


Pure maths doesn't limit the nature of the defining sets at all -
a set consisiting of my car, the north pole,the number pi and the set 
of all real numbers is valid.


Thats a long way from  rdbms  integers,date, fixed length strings etc..
.
The explicit goal of Codds rules ( at least in the paper where I read them)
is to limit this to something that is possible to handle on
computer  hardware  (of the 70-ies!?) as well as  allowing  a relative 
easy formulation of select criteria,

constraints etc.

From an u2 or pick view Codd choose to include unecessary contraints on 
relations

for the RDBMS,
But that doesnt make it more or less mathematical than the pick model..

Actually, I'd say Codd made the RDBMS a damn sight *more* mathematical 
than the Pick model :-)


The relational model is defined in terms of axioms, constraints, and - 
as I pointed out - a flat-out BAN on empirical testing in that the 
"users" building their system on top of an RDBMS are presented with a 
"black box". That places it extremely firmly in the world of Maths.


The Pick model is far more scientific, as it actually makes some attempt 
to model reality.


Cheers,
Wol
--
Anthony W. Youngman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
'Yings, yow graley yin! Suz ae rikt dheu,' said the blue man, taking the
thimble. 'What *is* he?' said Magrat. 'They're gnomes,' said Nanny. The man
lowered the thimble. 'Pictsies!' Carpe Jugulum, Terry Pratchett 1998
Visit the MaVerick web-site -  Open Source Pick
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RE: [U2] MultiValue TextBook

[Tony Gravagno]

Brutzman, Bill wrote:
> Consider trading fortune for fame.  A niche author can start with a
> ($10) pdf download for cult readers having a duplex printer and a
> 3-ring binder. 

PDF is insecure as far as protecting the interests of the writer.  Because
there are no generally accepted and secure EBook standards, the only way to
(mostly) guarantee that one gets paid for a book is to put it in hardcopy. 

The reality of the fortune and fame gamble is more that someone will spend
months of their time to translate insight into text with the hope of
earning a lot of $10 bills, there will be one sale, and for the next ten
years there will be hundreds of cult readers benefiting from the "generous
free contribution to the community".  Just ask Jon Sisk.

Fame is a carrot that people dangle to avoid sponsoring someone else's
fortune.  The MV market has a number of people who are pseudo-famous within
the tiny niche - I'm sure some of these people would prefer to trade some
of that for some pseudo-fortune.

T
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Re: [U2] RE: books

[Anthony W. Youngman]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Tony Gravagno 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes

Charles Barouch wrote:

If you want books, we need to commit to publishers.


I'm about to self-publish a book called Using DesignBais.  Printing the 300
page book with good quality paper, images, nice binding, etc, costs about
$50 per copy.  I have to pay for many books to be shipped to me, and I will
ship to anyone who orders so my cost of business goes up a little there.
The end-user cost of the book will be $200 per copy, which is further
weighted to account for the lack of volume in our community.  I originally
apologized for the price but given the specialized content I've not heard a
single complaint about the price.  In fact I'm pleasantly overwhelmed at
the excitement this offering has generated and I'm encouraged to do more.


The other approach would be to approach a publisher like Baen. They sell 
pdfs and/or hard-copy, pay royalties to authors, and print-on-demand.


That might push prices up a little, or it might not. But there would be 
no worries about minimum volumes etc.


Cheers,
Wol
--
Anthony W. Youngman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
'Yings, yow graley yin! Suz ae rikt dheu,' said the blue man, taking the
thimble. 'What *is* he?' said Magrat. 'They're gnomes,' said Nanny. The man
lowered the thimble. 'Pictsies!' Carpe Jugulum, Terry Pratchett 1998
Visit the MaVerick web-site -  Open Source Pick
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Re: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

[Dawn Wolthuis]

Since I have sent this info before, I do not want to be repeating
myself, but there are always new folks on the list, so first I'll pass
this along--

If you do get a new person in your shop and want a short overview to
get them started, check out my little "Trilogy" at
http://www.tincat-group.com/mv/trilogy.html  [I have to fix some
javascript somewhere, so it might be irritating go from one "book" to
the next]

When I visited with InterSystems folks, one of them told me this was a
big help.  I did at least as much QA on the content as done with
O'Reilly books, I suspect  (these are actualhy printed in hard copy on
business card sized cards, so the web was after-the-fact and not
nicely implemented, by me, I'll admit).

I, too, researched the market for books and decided to do short book
"chapters" in blog format instead last year.  That was not O'Reilly
type content, however.

My two-year-old assessment was the same as Tim O'Reilly's, that I
couldn't afford to lose that much.  1000 pre-sold copies might make a
self-published book worthwhile, but when it comes to meaty content
that is not just introductory info that could be found in U2 manuals,
on how to write U2-based software, for example, each MV product really
does client/server and other important aspects differently.  If you
show how every MV database provider does "it" then most folks will
only care about 1/nth of the book, perhaps not enough to buy it.

Since U2 has the bulk of the market at this point, it could be
U2-specific with one part UniData, one UniVerse, and another using the
shared commands and API's, with perhaps a 4th section on integrating
with various 3rd party tools.

This gives you a market of those who are U2 customers who write
software or integrate software with U2.  How many would that be?  Any
guesses? Narrow that down further to those who think they need to get
more information than what is already comning at them from many
directions.  Narrow that to those who like to learn by reading.
Narrow further to those who have either company or personal dollars to
spend.  Narrow that to those who are aware that they could buy such a
book.  Narrow that down to those who are able to get that purchase to
the top of their "to do" list and make work of ordering it.

I would be interested in seeing estimates attached to the points in
that prospective customer funnel if anyone is game to give it a try.

This is overly simplistic, but...If you take a relatively high number,
such as a profit of $5.00/book and the self-publishing author gets all
of that, and if it takes the author 1 year to get the book written,
edited, published and distributed (very difficult to do it in less
time, I suspect), then 10,000 books need to be sold for $50,000 for
that year of work.  Did we end up with 10,000 at the end of that
funnel?

--dawn
--
Dawn M. Wolthuis
Tincat Group, Inc.

Take and give some delight today


On 7/18/07, Smith, Robert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Charles,

 I think there may be a larger potential audience than Tim is aware of. I 
believe some topical areas may sell faster than others. And all together, the 
total volume eventually sold of U2 books will not reach one-sixty-fourth the 
level of the pending Harry Potter book. Still, I predict that a fair number of 
U2 books could be sold. I've seen books for just about every other subject 
under the sun being published recently...some about total nonsense. Books that 
reach general circulation. The U2 environment is a thriving entity, with world 
wide scope, with many incredibly intelligent practitioners, whose engines 
(Universe and Unidata) are marketed by one of the largest IT firms in the 
world. Why can't one or two of these new books be U2 related?

 It would be nice to supplement any training that a new employee receives, with 
books related to the U2 environment.

Rob

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Charles Barouch
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 9:58 AM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance


Robert,
   There is a firmly held belief that if
books were available, that we, as a group, are too cheap to buy them. Clif
Oliver (who ran this list for 9 years) used to edit a Pick series of
O'Reilly. When I contacted Tim O'Reilly about a year ago, proposing new MV
books, he said that he'd love to, but he can't afford to lose that kind of
money.
If you want books, we need to commit
to publishers. I'm sure Brian would be willing to put up a sign-up sheet
on U2UG.org, so we can submit a list of people who promise to buy at least
one copy if a publisher will print a new book. I think a pre-order of 1K
copies would get us some traction. Are we willing to spend $15 to $50 a
piece for a new U2 book? I don't think they'll have trouble finding
willing writers.

--
Charles Barouch
[EMAIL PROTECTED] - Consulting
(718) 762-3884x1

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Re: [U2] KB access - with var permission

[Wally Terhune]

Does this shed any light on the subject? This is publicly available...

https://www.ibm.com/software/data/u2/support/u2techconnect/

At the top of this page there is a link to 'Accessing U2 Entitled
Documents'

Regards,
|---+-|
|Wally Terhune  |Register today for the premier U2|
|U2 Support Architect   |technical event! |
|   | |
|4700 South Syracuse Street | |
|Denver, CO 80237   | |
|Tel: (303) 773-7969   T/L  | |
|656-7969   | |
|Mobile: (303) 807-6222 | |
|Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]   | |
|http://www.ibm.com/software/dat| |
|a/u2   | |
|---+-|

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of 
2B021099.jpg]

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RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

[Jerry Banker]

Yes and no, yes to anything without a key next to it, which is usually
nothing technical or helpful. The frustration comes from getting emails
directly from IBM saying there is a white paper or tech bulletin that
pertains to U2 with some pretty useful information, but when I follow
the link to the paper, it is restricted and has that little key next to
it. No matter how many different ways I log in I can't get to it. And,
of course, I get an email from IBM that says I just tried to access
something I'm not allowed to look at. It's not like I am depriving my
var from anything. We buy the licenses to UV from them, have them set up
our systems, and if there is a system problem we usually call them but
that is the extent of our relationship. They don't sell a software
product we can use. As a matter-of-fact we are a Linux/Unix shop and
they deal mostly with Windows.

-Original Message-
From: David Murray [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 3:09 PM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

Jerry,

Do you have currently have access to the knowledgebase?

It is possible (as I have had access before), but access by an end-user
seems to be the exception rather the norm.

Is anyone from IBM in this mail list want to comment?

Cheers,

David Murray


.learn and do
.excel and share

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jerry Banker
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 2:55 PM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

So what you are saying is that a shop like ours that has over the years
developed everything in-house and the applications are specifically
geared to our business and can be changed as our business changes is out
of luck when it comes to getting into the knowledgebase. Just because we
don't buy an application from anyone we are excluded from something that
might help us build it better and faster.

-Original Message-
From: David Murray [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 1:10 PM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

And it is the reason that I would never recommend in-house software
development with any U2 products. You will always be flying blind.
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RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

[David Murray]

Bill,

I am sorry if what I stated was inappropriate.

I was replying to a comment about the lack of access to the IBM U2
knowledgebase and other privileged/restricted information to end-user
in-house developers.

Cheers,

David Murray



.learn and do
.excel and share

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brutzman, Bill
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 3:43 PM
To: 'u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org'
Subject: RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

Ditto...  Almost everybody using U2 is doing in-house software development.

We are the opposite of blind because we can see all of the source code that
we write.

--Bill

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jerry Banker
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 2:55 PM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance


So what you are saying is that a shop like ours that has over the years
developed everything in-house and the applications are specifically
geared to our business and can be changed as our business changes is out
of luck when it comes to getting into the knowledgebase. Just because we
don't buy an application from anyone we are excluded from something that
might help us build it better and faster.

-Original Message-
From: David Murray [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 1:10 PM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

And it is the reason that I would never recommend in-house software
development with any U2 products. You will always be flying blind.
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RE: [U2] UDT.OPTIONS

[Dave Davis]

You could EXECUTE "UDT.OPTIONS" CAPTURING output.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jonathan Leckie
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 3:09 PM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: [U2] UDT.OPTIONS

Is there a way to tell what a specific UDT.OPTIONS value is from a
programme, specifically option 29?

--
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RE: [U2] KB access - with var permission

[John Jenkins]

Doug

There's one form to fill in (One for an ISV and another for a Distributor)
to grant access.

An email to U2BC from the ISV or Distributor (as the case may be) should
straighten it out.

Regards

JayJay

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Doug Miller
Sent: 18 July 2007 20:27
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: Re: [U2] KB access - with var permission

It was complicated for us initially as well but once we worked it out 
on what was needed, it is relatively simple now.  They will need to 
email [EMAIL PROTECTED] with some pertinent info for the IBM folks to 
validate and assign you a id.  IBM should be able to guide the VAR on 
what is needed.
Now if IBM can just get their website down to a single login id 
access, I would be a happy man!

At 12:04 PM 7/18/2007, you wrote:
>Does anyone have a known process that works for getting this access 
>setup?  I've been round and round on this access, and my var does 
>not know what else to do.  The var has no issue granting the access 
>- but IBM has made it SO complicated that apparently it takes a 
>rocket scientist to figure it out.


Doug Miller   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Manager of Technical Services
Strategy 7Dallas TX 
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RE: [U2] KB access - with var permission

[Bill Haskett]

Marc:

It does take a rocket-scientist to access the U2 Knowledge Base.  Since I'm not 
one,
IBM showed a lot of patience in helping me.  Here's the general idea:

1)  You get an IBM email id (if you already have one for some other IBM 
products,
like ThinkPad support, then this has to be accomplished by IBM support.

2)  You get a numeric IBM customer# (User ID).  This gives you access to the
U2TechConnect page.  From this page you can sign into the U2 Knowledge Base.  
Buy
you're routed to a search page.

3)  Enter your search and you find many "locked" documents.  To access these
documents you need another set of credentials (an IBM ID, usually your email 
id, and
another password).

4)  If you want to access U2 Business Connect you'll need an IBM customer number
(another number) and each user will have a user ID (an email address) and a 
unique
password.  This password is set to change evey so often (4-6 months ?).

Believe it or not, IBM U2 support staff are completely aware of the 
difficulties in
accessing U2 information.  I have no idea how to get this fixed.  One just has 
to
work through the defined steps and contact IBM to resolve each difficulty.

It took me multiple emails and a couple of phone calls to the IBM Business 
Connect
group before I could log in properly.  All communication from IBM was 
professional
and friendly.  They just can't do anything about this mess.  One has to know, in
excruciating detail, the login structure of the site, which has very little to 
do
with what you're trying to do but more to do with the design decisions.

Hope this helps.

Bill

>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marc Harbeson
>Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 10:04 AM
>To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
>Subject: [U2] KB access - with var permission
>
>Does anyone have a known process that works for getting this 
>access setup?  I've been round and round on this access, and 
>my var does not know what else to do.  The var has no issue 
>granting the access - but IBM has made it SO complicated that 
>apparently it takes a rocket scientist to figure it out.
>
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Leach
>Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 12:42 PM
>To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
>Subject: Re: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance
>
>Nancy
>
>this was discussed in the past at great length! To summarize:
>
>When the U2UG was formed, we petitioned for IBM to open up 
>their knowledge sources. The problem is their vars, some of 
>whom do not want their users to get access (and presumably 
>show up how p*ss p**r their support may be).
>
>So a compromise was reached - if the var agrees, you can get 
>access. Of course, some vars won't - but then you could always 
>buy a single user UV from a sensible and capable var who will. 
>that's probably worth the cost of the material anyway.
>
>it's also one of the reasons we started the U2UG knowledge 
>base - and we're about to launch a Wiki on the same site.
>
>Brian
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RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

[David Murray]

Jerry,

Do you have currently have access to the knowledgebase?

It is possible (as I have had access before), but access by an end-user
seems to be the exception rather the norm.

Is anyone from IBM in this mail list want to comment?

Cheers,

David Murray


.learn and do
.excel and share

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jerry Banker
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 2:55 PM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

So what you are saying is that a shop like ours that has over the years
developed everything in-house and the applications are specifically
geared to our business and can be changed as our business changes is out
of luck when it comes to getting into the knowledgebase. Just because we
don't buy an application from anyone we are excluded from something that
might help us build it better and faster.

-Original Message-
From: David Murray [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 1:10 PM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

And it is the reason that I would never recommend in-house software
development with any U2 products. You will always be flying blind.
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RE: [U2] RE: mv.NET and UO

[Bill Haskett]

Symeon:

Sure.  But how's an idiot like me supposed to figure out the single ".dll" in a 
U2
client 450Mb download that can be used by mv.NET and there won't be something
missing?  :-)

Bill

>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Symeon Breen
>Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 11:53 AM
>To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
>Subject: RE: [U2] RE: mv.NET and UO
>
>I am sure it is useful for many things.
>
> BTW - UO.NET is only a 208kb download, you don't need the 
> whole clients CD.
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bill Haskett
>Sent: 18 July 2007 17:00
>To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
>Subject: RE: [U2] RE: mv.NET and UO
>
>Symeon:
>
>This is useful when outside developers are working on a test U2 dbms
>within our network.  This way, we don't have to install UO/UO.NET (a 
>450Mb download) or mess with our firewalls.  Quite useful, really.  :-)
>
>Bill 
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RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

[Symeon Breen]

Personally I have never felt the need for a MV book for myself - I have
always found the u2 manuals and white papers very helpful for learning any
new functionality.  I have a few books on .net, php, linux etc but again I
rarely look at them as the manuals and online help are plentiful.


My 2pennies


Symeon.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jerry Banker
Sent: 18 July 2007 15:04
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

AMEN!!

-Original Message-
From: Smith, Robert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 8:14 AM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

Good Morning,

 I really enjoyed reading this thread. I can honestly say that the
diversity of experiences and people who comprise this listserv is
amazing. And I've found the shared knowledge to be invaluable. As one
who has not been immersed in the U2 environment for an extended period
of time, there is one item that serves as a continued source of
frustration. And it's exactly what Phil mentions below...sparse
documentation. Not only for new stuff, but also for what I consider to
be "general items". More than once I have had a problem and through
research, found that a PDF containing possibly pertinent information
could be obtained from the IBM web site. Knowing it was there did me
absolutely no good at all. Because my connection to the U2 world is
through our software vendor, IBM has consistently refused to
acknowledge/honor any request that I've made for information. And based
upon the feedback I have gotten at times from the vendors support
center, they (the support center) has a equ!
 ally difficult time extracting U2 information from IBM. And it's not
like there are selves full of books on U2 that I could turn to for
research...at least not that I've seen. I can go to any major book store
and find two or three selves of books on MS SQL and NONE on U2. This was
particularly frustrating when I was first getting started with U2 four
years ago. "How could there be no books?" Regardless of the bookstores
I've visited over the years, the results has always been the same. I
have since learned that, outside of spending thousands of dollars to go
to vendor sponsored "training" classes (and receiving their training
books), the best way to learn about things in this environment is
through the listservs...word of mouth...trial and error. For one who has
spent a considerable amount of time (with past systems I've supported)
over the years plowing through technical manuals learning the nuances of
how to best work with a product, being denied that information is very !
 frustrating. The only consolation are listserves such as this one. 

 The U2 industry is ill served by what I perceive to be an informational
void relative to the product. And the tragedy is that this is a really
good family of products. Very worthy of recognition along with the other
major players in the RDBMS arena. Something should be done to free up
this log-jam. And the first thing that would be really helpful is if IBM
allowed both their direct customers AND the clients of those customers
(such as myself), direct access to all aspects of the critical
information contained upon their web site. Maybe then people will start
writing books about U2.

My two cents,
Rob

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of phil walker
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 4:22 PM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance


Nick,

Here, here to your following statements

To me, this is part of the problem that we have in the MV world.  We
look at how things are being done elsewhere and say, "Pick does it
better, we aren't going to do that."  The problem with this approach is
that everyone else is adopting these standards and using them.  We are
going to be left further behind if we don't start using some of the
technologies available to us.

.

And this is where this list breaks down in that a lot of the new
features IBM are building into the product are not used/discussed and
the documentation is VERY, VERY sparse. So people like myself and a few
others are left to trial and error techniques to implement these new
technologies because we HAVE to talk to the outside world and people
expect some sort of standard method to do this. Because of this approach
we take a lot longer to do something which I am sure is reasonably easy
if one was to have good quality examples available like most other
dbms/development environments have on the web


Phil (my 2c)

 
Nick Cipollina
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dawn Wolthuis
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 11:22 PM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: Re: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

I do understand the advantages to tha

Re: [U2] KB access - with var permission

[Doug Miller]

It was complicated for us initially as well but once we worked it out 
on what was needed, it is relatively simple now.  They will need to 
email [EMAIL PROTECTED] with some pertinent info for the IBM folks to 
validate and assign you a id.  IBM should be able to guide the VAR on 
what is needed.
Now if IBM can just get their website down to a single login id 
access, I would be a happy man!


At 12:04 PM 7/18/2007, you wrote:
Does anyone have a known process that works for getting this access 
setup?  I've been round and round on this access, and my var does 
not know what else to do.  The var has no issue granting the access 
- but IBM has made it SO complicated that apparently it takes a 
rocket scientist to figure it out.



Doug Miller   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Manager of Technical Services
Strategy 7Dallas TX 
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RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

[Brutzman, Bill]

Ditto...  Almost everybody using U2 is doing in-house software development.

We are the opposite of blind because we can see all of the source code that
we write.

--Bill

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jerry Banker
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 2:55 PM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance


So what you are saying is that a shop like ours that has over the years
developed everything in-house and the applications are specifically
geared to our business and can be changed as our business changes is out
of luck when it comes to getting into the knowledgebase. Just because we
don't buy an application from anyone we are excluded from something that
might help us build it better and faster.

-Original Message-
From: David Murray [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 1:10 PM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

And it is the reason that I would never recommend in-house software
development with any U2 products. You will always be flying blind.
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RE: [U2] RE: mv.NET and UO

[Symeon Breen]

I am sure it is useful for many things.

 BTW - UO.NET is only a 208kb download, you don't need the whole clients CD.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bill Haskett
Sent: 18 July 2007 17:00
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: RE: [U2] RE: mv.NET and UO

Symeon:

This is useful when outside developers are working on a test U2 dbms within
our
network.  This way, we don't have to install UO/UO.NET (a 450Mb download) or
mess
with our firewalls.  Quite useful, really.  :-)

Bill 

>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Symeon Breen
>Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 4:11 AM
>To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
>Subject: RE: [U2] RE: mv.NET and UO
>
>mv.NET can also connect back to the host via telnet - which always makes me
>grin, but I am sure it has its uses.
>
>
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tony Gravagno
>Sent: 18 July 2007 08:46
>To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
>Subject: [U2] RE: mv.NET and UO
>
>Just to clarify - mv.NET can use standard UO but has also been enabled to
>use UO.NET for a long time now, and standard UO might not even be supported
>in a near-future release.  It's preferable to use managed components all
>the way through, so UO.NET is the preferred pipe.
>T
>
>LeRoy Dreyfuss wrote:
>>
>> mv.NET from BlueFinity would be using standard UniObjects and as
>> such, could not take advantage of connection pooling from U2 (CP).
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[U2] UDT.OPTIONS

[Jonathan Leckie]

Is there a way to tell what a specific UDT.OPTIONS value is from a 
programme, specifically option 29?


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RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

[Jerry Banker]

So what you are saying is that a shop like ours that has over the years
developed everything in-house and the applications are specifically
geared to our business and can be changed as our business changes is out
of luck when it comes to getting into the knowledgebase. Just because we
don't buy an application from anyone we are excluded from something that
might help us build it better and faster.

-Original Message-
From: David Murray [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 1:10 PM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

And it is the reason that I would never recommend in-house software
development with any U2 products. You will always be flying blind.
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[U2] KB access - with var permission

[Marc Harbeson]

Does anyone have a known process that works for getting this access setup?  
I've been round and round on this access, and my var does not know what else to 
do.  The var has no issue granting the access - but IBM has made it SO 
complicated that apparently it takes a rocket scientist to figure it out.



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Leach
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 12:42 PM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: Re: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

Nancy

this was discussed in the past at great length! To summarize:

When the U2UG was formed, we petitioned for IBM to open up their knowledge 
sources. The problem is their vars, some of whom do not want their users to get 
access (and presumably show up how p*ss p**r their support may be).

So a compromise was reached - if the var agrees, you can get access. Of course, 
some vars won't - but then you could always buy a single user UV from a 
sensible and capable var who will. that's probably worth the cost of the 
material anyway.

it's also one of the reasons we started the U2UG knowledge base - and we're 
about to launch a Wiki on the same site.

Brian
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RE: [U2] MultiValue TextBook

[Brutzman, Bill]

I am not saying that it is easy.

What I am saying is that class notes can become a 1st edition and a 
1st edition can become a 2nd edition.

Consider trading fortune for fame.  A niche author can start with a ($10)
pdf download for cult readers having a duplex printer and a 3-ring binder.

--Bill

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Brian Leach
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 1:28 PM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: RE: [U2] MultiValue TextBook


So Bill

> Just... write the book in say Word, and zap it into Adobe.
> There is a (Xerox ?) commercial on TV about publishing a book this way.
> There is a (Nike) commercial on TV about... "Just Do It".

Since it's so easy, we'll await your publication...

personally I find it takes me weeks to write a single article, knowledge
base entry or such.

In fact, I've just spent weeks putting together a guide to writing your
first U2 application for the learner pack (being reviewed right now). that's
only 80 pages or so, and just scratches the surface. U2 technology is so
wide-ranging, it's a huge ask to write something that really captures it. Or
you end up with something miserable like the Microsoft learner guides.

The reality is that these things take a huge amount of time, effort and
money. Which is unlikely to be rewarded. How many on this list have even
offered to write anything for the knowledge base?

Not many.

Brian



--Bill
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RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

[Dave Davis]

There are other ways of getting PDF output.  SBClient 5.4.1 has a lot of
PDF options, but it still is a bother.

Some of our users set up PDF printers that capture the aux output as
PDF.

You could use the system control "Output Redir Proc On" and "Output
Redir Proc Off" to add PDF output options to your report, even from
character (though it still uses SBClient for file transfer)

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nancy Fisher
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 1:45 PM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: Re: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

My var retrieved some info on setting up PDF from SB+ report writer for
me one time.  It was barely legible and not helpful.
I was still glad to get it. VAR said they could try and get access for
me but hadn't any success in the past...
I never heard back.

Still can't use HTML or PDF from (character based) SB+.

I do recall hearing the VAR angle but my experience with our VAR didn't
really support that.

Nancy Fisher
Peninsula Truck Lines, Inc
Auburn, Washington
253/929-2040
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
From: "Brian Leach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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[U2] KB Access - Memory Leak Example

[Marc Harbeson]

Did you know what on Win32 this will leak memory at releases lower than
7.1 to the point it will core dump?

FOR X = 1 TO 5
Y = GETREADU()
NEXT X

Unconfirmed by IBM that this will to.  (Var is still testing it)

FOR X = 1 TO 5
PERFORM "SELECT FILE WITH B$Att1 = 'A' AND WITH B$Att2 = 'B'"
CAPTURING JUNK
PERFORM "CLEARSELECT" CAPTURING JUNK
NEXT X

:-)


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brutzman, Bill
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 1:07 PM
To: 'u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org'
Subject: RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

What (specifically) is being sought that is not now available?

--BIll
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RE: [U2] KB access - with var permission

[David Murray]

Marc,

While I was contracting to an organization in New Zealand whom had developed
an in-house Universe application with SB+, I was able to get access to the
IBM knowledge base with permission of the VAR.

It was complicated and it took the VAR three sessions on the phone with me
before access was eventually working.

It was a mine of information and I immediately solved 6 nagging bugs.

>From memory, you access the knowledgebase as a sub-agent of the VAR, so the
VAR has to provide multiple levels of access using their own access codes
initially.

It is possible, yes.

Cheers,

David Murray


.learn and do
.excel and share

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marc Harbeson
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 1:04 PM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: [U2] KB access - with var permission

Does anyone have a known process that works for getting this access setup?
I've been round and round on this access, and my var does not know what else
to do.  The var has no issue granting the access - but IBM has made it SO
complicated that apparently it takes a rocket scientist to figure it out.



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Leach
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 12:42 PM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: Re: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

Nancy

this was discussed in the past at great length! To summarize:

When the U2UG was formed, we petitioned for IBM to open up their knowledge
sources. The problem is their vars, some of whom do not want their users to
get access (and presumably show up how p*ss p**r their support may be).

So a compromise was reached - if the var agrees, you can get access. Of
course, some vars won't - but then you could always buy a single user UV
from a sensible and capable var who will. that's probably worth the cost of
the material anyway.

it's also one of the reasons we started the U2UG knowledge base - and we're
about to launch a Wiki on the same site.

Brian
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RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

[David Murray]

The IBM U2 products are marketed as 'High performance, scalable information
management environments for embedding in vertical applications.' See
http://www-306.ibm.com/software/data/dbservers.html

IBM has a large reseller or value-added partnerships which they wish to
preserve. One of the side-effects is the 'ownership' of a client; it is the
resellers not IBM's. One way to manage this is to provide access to the
knowledgebase only to the resellers and software houses, as they generate
sales and also manage the database problems as it is the application which
is being sold, not the database. This is a problem for in-house software
development and orphans from software house collapses.

This has always been a problem as long as I can remember - 15 years or more.
And it is the reason that I would never recommend in-house software
development with any U2 products. You will always be flying blind.

There was some chat some months back about creating a free virtual image of
U2 with some supplied software etc. etc. It must always be remembered that
U2 is not open-source or a community built product. It is a proprietary
database product owned and developed by IBM. If IBM do not and will not
recognize the in-house development and consultant markets, then move on. 

There are massively larger databases and more in number using MySQL, Oracle
and MS-SQL. Other developers seem to be able to use these products and
produce reasonable applications. 

On the other hand, I have found that I can produce and manage a U2 database
simpler and cheaper than others; but not because of the MV factor. It is the
ability to write complex business rules and processes directly in the one
environment (with the database structure) that I find invaluable. But alias,
as the increase of BPEL and such high-end tools come available for other
database products, even this feature of U2 is starting to wear thin.


My $1.22 + tax input.

Cheers,

David Murray

P.S. The direct relationship between BPEL and SB+ is so similar that it is
scary, but no development by IBM of BPEL on U2 seems to be on the cards.



.learn and do
.excel and share
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nancy Fisher
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 12:03 PM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: Re: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

Why doesn't IBM allow access to all information that would help users - 
we've already bought the product?
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RE: [U2] UV - Available memory exceeded [not-secure] Update

[Hennessey, Mark F.]

Thanks to those who responded on and off list.

It turns out the culprit was a Unix script that had been in production since 
2001. The last line of this script had been commented out with an asterisk 
instead of a pound sign...  This was a "harmless" error, until last Thursday 
when the script found an executable item in its working directory.  It 
dutifully attempted to run it over and over again, forking off processes as it 
went. It consumed so much in the way of resources that Solaris started 
downsizing swap, resulting in UV processes getting the "Available memory 
exceeded" message, presumably when the OS attempted to page. 

I saw this in real time today... I inadvertently fired off the process and saw 
/tamp go from 2% of capacity to 20, then 25, etc  The actual size of it 
wasn't increasing very much, but the maximum size for it dropped like a rock.  
Unfortunately I gave the system a wedgie before I could kill the process  
One change of underwear and an edited script later, we are finally good to 
go...  I'll be spending the next few days reviewing my old scripts... just in 
case.

Mark Hennessey
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RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

[Jerry Banker]

Over the last few years I have tried on several occasions to get access
to the knowledgebase through my var and have been told that they would
see about getting it for me. Last time was about 6 months ago, I'm still
waiting. Which tells me either they haven't tried to get it for me or
there is a problem getting it through IBM.


-Original Message-
From: Nancy Fisher [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 12:45 PM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: Re: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

My var retrieved some info on setting up PDF from SB+ report writer for
me 
one time.  It was barely legible and not helpful.
I was still glad to get it. VAR said they could try and get access for
me 
but hadn't any success in the past...
I never heard back.

Still can't use HTML or PDF from (character based) SB+.

I do recall hearing the VAR angle but my experience with our VAR didn't 
really support that.

Nancy Fisher
Peninsula Truck Lines, Inc
Auburn, Washington
253/929-2040
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message - 
From: "Brian Leach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 9:42 AM
Subject: Re: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance


> Nancy
>
> this was discussed in the past at great length! To summarize:
>
> When the U2UG was formed, we petitioned for IBM to open up their
knowledge 
> sources. The problem is their vars, some of whom do not want their
users 
> to get access (and presumably show up how p*ss p**r their support may
be).
>
> So a compromise was reached - if the var agrees, you can get access.
Of 
> course, some vars won't - but then you could always buy a single user
UV 
> from a sensible and capable var who will. that's probably worth the
cost 
> of the material anyway.
>
> it's also one of the reasons we started the U2UG knowledge base - and 
> we're about to launch a Wiki on the same site.
>
> Brian
>
>
> Why doesn't IBM allow access to all information that would help users
-
> we've already bought the product?
>
> Nancy Fisher
> Peninsula Truck Lines, Inc
> Auburn, Washington
> 253/929-2040
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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> u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
> To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
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Re: [U2] KB access - with var permission

[Nancy Fisher]

Precisely what I heard.

Nancy Fisher
Peninsula Truck Lines, Inc
Auburn, Washington
253/929-2040
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message - 
From: "Marc Harbeson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 10:04 AM
Subject: [U2] KB access - with var permission


Does anyone have a known process that works for getting this access setup? 
I've been round and round on this access, and my var does not know what 
else to do.  The var has no issue granting the access - but IBM has made 
it SO complicated that apparently it takes a rocket scientist to figure it 
out.




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Leach

Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 12:42 PM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: Re: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

Nancy

this was discussed in the past at great length! To summarize:

When the U2UG was formed, we petitioned for IBM to open up their knowledge 
sources. The problem is their vars, some of whom do not want their users 
to get access (and presumably show up how p*ss p**r their support may be).


So a compromise was reached - if the var agrees, you can get access. Of 
course, some vars won't - but then you could always buy a single user UV 
from a sensible and capable var who will. that's probably worth the cost 
of the material anyway.


it's also one of the reasons we started the U2UG knowledge base - and 
we're about to launch a Wiki on the same site.


Brian
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RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

[Jerry Banker]

I think what he is asking for are tips and tricks, example programs,
troubleshooting guides with real world scenarios, how to get data in and
out of other database from the U2 side as well as from the other side
with examples. Books written in a conversational manner not in techno
geek I'm leaving out the stuff you should already know because I do.

-Original Message-
From: Brutzman, Bill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 12:07 PM
To: 'u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org'
Subject: RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

The following eMail is not clear to me.  IBM has comprehensive
documentation
on U2 available for free.

What (specifically) is being sought that is not now available?

--BIll

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Smith, Robert
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 9:14 AM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance


Good Morning,

 I really enjoyed reading this thread. I can honestly say that the
diversity
of experiences and people who comprise this listserv is amazing. And
I've
found the shared knowledge to be invaluable. As one who has not been
immersed in the U2 environment for an extended period of time, there is
one
item that serves as a continued source of frustration. And it's exactly
what
Phil mentions below...sparse documentation. Not only for new stuff, but
also
for what I consider to be "general items". More than once I have had a
problem and through research, found that a PDF containing possibly
pertinent
information could be obtained from the IBM web site. Knowing it was
there
did me absolutely no good at all. Because my connection to the U2 world
is
through our software vendor, IBM has consistently refused to
acknowledge/honor any request that I've made for information. And based
upon
the feedback I have gotten at times from the vendors support center,
they
(the support center) has a equ!
 ally difficult time extracting U2 information from IBM. And it's not
like
there are selves full of books on U2 that I could turn to for
research...at
least not that I've seen. I can go to any major book store and find two
or
three selves of books on MS SQL and NONE on U2. This was particularly
frustrating when I was first getting started with U2 four years ago.
"How
could there be no books?" Regardless of the bookstores I've visited over
the
years, the results has always been the same. I have since learned that,
outside of spending thousands of dollars to go to vendor sponsored
"training" classes (and receiving their training books), the best way to
learn about things in this environment is through the listservs...word
of
mouth...trial and error. For one who has spent a considerable amount of
time
(with past systems I've supported) over the years plowing through
technical
manuals learning the nuances of how to best work with a product, being
denied that information is very !
 frustrating. The only consolation are listserves such as this one. 

 The U2 industry is ill served by what I perceive to be an informational
void relative to the product. And the tragedy is that this is a really
good
family of products. Very worthy of recognition along with the other
major
players in the RDBMS arena. Something should be done to free up this
log-jam. And the first thing that would be really helpful is if IBM
allowed
both their direct customers AND the clients of those customers (such as
myself), direct access to all aspects of the critical information
contained
upon their web site. Maybe then people will start writing books about
U2.

My two cents,
Rob

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of phil walker
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 4:22 PM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance


Nick,

Here, here to your following statements

To me, this is part of the problem that we have in the MV world.  We
look at how things are being done elsewhere and say, "Pick does it
better, we aren't going to do that."  The problem with this approach is
that everyone else is adopting these standards and using them.  We are
going to be left further behind if we don't start using some of the
technologies available to us.

.

And this is where this list breaks down in that a lot of the new
features IBM are building into the product are not used/discussed and
the documentation is VERY, VERY sparse. So people like myself and a few
others are left to trial and error techniques to implement these new
technologies because we HAVE to talk to the outside world and people
expect some sort of standard method to do this. Because of this approach
we take a lot longer to do something which I am sure is reasonably easy
if one was to have good quality examples available like most other
dbms/development environments have on the web


Phil (my 2c)

 
Nick Cipollina
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTEC

Re: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

[Nancy Fisher]

My var retrieved some info on setting up PDF from SB+ report writer for me 
one time.  It was barely legible and not helpful.
I was still glad to get it. VAR said they could try and get access for me 
but hadn't any success in the past...

I never heard back.

Still can't use HTML or PDF from (character based) SB+.

I do recall hearing the VAR angle but my experience with our VAR didn't 
really support that.


Nancy Fisher
Peninsula Truck Lines, Inc
Auburn, Washington
253/929-2040
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message - 
From: "Brian Leach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 9:42 AM
Subject: Re: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance



Nancy

this was discussed in the past at great length! To summarize:

When the U2UG was formed, we petitioned for IBM to open up their knowledge 
sources. The problem is their vars, some of whom do not want their users 
to get access (and presumably show up how p*ss p**r their support may be).


So a compromise was reached - if the var agrees, you can get access. Of 
course, some vars won't - but then you could always buy a single user UV 
from a sensible and capable var who will. that's probably worth the cost 
of the material anyway.


it's also one of the reasons we started the U2UG knowledge base - and 
we're about to launch a Wiki on the same site.


Brian


Why doesn't IBM allow access to all information that would help users -
we've already bought the product?

Nancy Fisher
Peninsula Truck Lines, Inc
Auburn, Washington
253/929-2040
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

[Bob Wyatt]

I may or may not...

I have typically found the O'Reilly 'UNIX in a Nutshell' book short on
material for the flavor of UNIX that I am working with that day. It
certainly isn't intended to be a comprehensive guide, but by the same token,
I can't find commands for a particular flavor that I know exist and are
cross-platform.

I fear the same would be true of a Multi-Value Database guide... Even if the
scope were more narrowed to 'U2', I'd really be afraid that the information
needed to adequately differentiate functionality in UniData from UniVerse
would leave me wanting more.

And that puts me back to where I am with the IBM documentation - wanting
more specifics, examples, explanations, and without omitting valid command
options. There's nothing more irritating than being told on a support call
'Oh yea, that would be the -zoo option', which cannot be found anywhere in
any documentation produced by the vendor (IBM does not stand alone in this
regard, unfortunately)...

If Wally and Leroy co-conspired on such a thorough guide, I'd buy it, even
though its scope would be limited to the U2 Multi-Value family.

Regards, 

Bob Wyatt 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert Kubarych
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 12:27
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

I would pony up for a U2 book.  


Robert K. Kubarych
Network Services
Bergen Community College

CONFIDENTIALITY: This e-mail (including any attachments) may contain
confidential, proprietary and privileged information, and unauthorized
disclosure or use is prohibited. If you received this e-mail in error,
please notify the sender and delete this e-mail from your system.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George R Smith
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 12:06 PM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

Lets see I just spent 50.00 for a book on ajax, 80 for a book on
real estate accounting, 50 for a book on netbeans. Of course, I would
spend money on a book about Pick/U2/mvBasic on Cache. 

I WOULD however exclude one author even if they gave the book away - so
let
us see the authors first.

george

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-u2-
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charles Barouch
> Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 8:58 AM
> To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance
> 
> Robert,
> There is a firmly held belief that if
> books were available, that we, as a group, are too cheap to buy them.
Clif
> Oliver (who ran this list for 9 years) used to edit a Pick series of
> O'Reilly. When I contacted Tim O'Reilly about a year ago, proposing
new MV
> books, he said that he'd love to, but he can't afford to lose that
kind of
> money.
>  If you want books, we need to commit
> to publishers. I'm sure Brian would be willing to put up a sign-up
sheet
> on U2UG.org, so we can submit a list of people who promise to buy at
least
> one copy if a publisher will print a new book. I think a pre-order of
1K
> copies would get us some traction. Are we willing to spend $15 to $50
a
> piece for a new U2 book? I don't think they'll have trouble finding
> willing writers.
> 
> --
> Charles Barouch
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Consulting
> (718) 762-3884x1
> ---
> u2-users mailing list
> u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
> To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
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RE: [U2] MultiValue TextBook

[Brian Leach]

So Bill

> Just... write the book in say Word, and zap it into Adobe.
> There is a (Xerox ?) commercial on TV about publishing a book this way.
> There is a (Nike) commercial on TV about... "Just Do It".

Since it's so easy, we'll await your publication...

personally I find it takes me weeks to write a single article, knowledge base 
entry or such.

In fact, I've just spent weeks putting together a guide to writing your first 
U2 application for the learner pack (being reviewed right now). that's only 80 
pages or so, and just scratches the surface. U2 technology is so wide-ranging, 
it's a huge ask to write something that really captures it. Or you end up with 
something miserable like the Microsoft learner guides.

The reality is that these things take a huge amount of time, effort and money. 
Which is unlikely to be rewarded. How many on this list have even offered to 
write anything for the knowledge base?

Not many.

Brian



--Bill
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RE: [U2] RE: books

[Jerry Banker]

Doesn't Malcolm Bull still publish books?

-Original Message-
From: Tony Gravagno [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 11:29 AM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: [U2] RE: books

Charles Barouch wrote:
> If you want books, we need to commit to publishers.

I'm about to self-publish a book called Using DesignBais.  Printing the
300
page book with good quality paper, images, nice binding, etc, costs
about
$50 per copy.  I have to pay for many books to be shipped to me, and I
will
ship to anyone who orders so my cost of business goes up a little there.
The end-user cost of the book will be $200 per copy, which is further
weighted to account for the lack of volume in our community.  I
originally
apologized for the price but given the specialized content I've not
heard a
single complaint about the price.  In fact I'm pleasantly overwhelmed at
the excitement this offering has generated and I'm encouraged to do
more.

So, we don't really need publishers who need guarantees of much larger
volumes.  I share this experience in the hope that some other author
might
be interested in following the same path to write and self-publish
user-friendly books or booklets on U2-related topics.  This is
specialized
info we're after and I don't think there are many people here who would
see
this as anything other than a normal and necessary business expense, so
from my recent experience I think such an effort would be rewarded.

Getting advance orders should (arguably) be a standard operating
procedure
for some, maybe with some third-party taking orders/cash "in escrow" so
to
speak.  With so many people saying they want something and then not
ordering after extended development (been there, done that), the "trust
but
verify" strategy is hardly unjustified.  Writing material like this
takes
months out of someone's life, and if material doesn't sell after that
much
effort, it's doubtful that this community will get many more chances to
dangle the same carrot.

HTH
TG@ scribblescribblescribbleNebula-RnD.com
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RE: [U2] MultiValue TextBook

[Brutzman, Bill]

If somebody wants to write a book, they do not need a green light from Tim.

Just... write the book in say Word, and zap it into Adobe.

There is a (Xerox ?) commercial on TV about publishing a book this way.

There is a (Nike) commercial on TV about... "Just Do It".

--Bill
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RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

[Brutzman, Bill]

The following eMail is not clear to me.  IBM has comprehensive documentation
on U2 available for free.

What (specifically) is being sought that is not now available?

--BIll

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Smith, Robert
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 9:14 AM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance


Good Morning,

 I really enjoyed reading this thread. I can honestly say that the diversity
of experiences and people who comprise this listserv is amazing. And I've
found the shared knowledge to be invaluable. As one who has not been
immersed in the U2 environment for an extended period of time, there is one
item that serves as a continued source of frustration. And it's exactly what
Phil mentions below...sparse documentation. Not only for new stuff, but also
for what I consider to be "general items". More than once I have had a
problem and through research, found that a PDF containing possibly pertinent
information could be obtained from the IBM web site. Knowing it was there
did me absolutely no good at all. Because my connection to the U2 world is
through our software vendor, IBM has consistently refused to
acknowledge/honor any request that I've made for information. And based upon
the feedback I have gotten at times from the vendors support center, they
(the support center) has a equ!
 ally difficult time extracting U2 information from IBM. And it's not like
there are selves full of books on U2 that I could turn to for research...at
least not that I've seen. I can go to any major book store and find two or
three selves of books on MS SQL and NONE on U2. This was particularly
frustrating when I was first getting started with U2 four years ago. "How
could there be no books?" Regardless of the bookstores I've visited over the
years, the results has always been the same. I have since learned that,
outside of spending thousands of dollars to go to vendor sponsored
"training" classes (and receiving their training books), the best way to
learn about things in this environment is through the listservs...word of
mouth...trial and error. For one who has spent a considerable amount of time
(with past systems I've supported) over the years plowing through technical
manuals learning the nuances of how to best work with a product, being
denied that information is very !
 frustrating. The only consolation are listserves such as this one. 

 The U2 industry is ill served by what I perceive to be an informational
void relative to the product. And the tragedy is that this is a really good
family of products. Very worthy of recognition along with the other major
players in the RDBMS arena. Something should be done to free up this
log-jam. And the first thing that would be really helpful is if IBM allowed
both their direct customers AND the clients of those customers (such as
myself), direct access to all aspects of the critical information contained
upon their web site. Maybe then people will start writing books about U2.

My two cents,
Rob

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of phil walker
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 4:22 PM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance


Nick,

Here, here to your following statements

To me, this is part of the problem that we have in the MV world.  We
look at how things are being done elsewhere and say, "Pick does it
better, we aren't going to do that."  The problem with this approach is
that everyone else is adopting these standards and using them.  We are
going to be left further behind if we don't start using some of the
technologies available to us.

.

And this is where this list breaks down in that a lot of the new
features IBM are building into the product are not used/discussed and
the documentation is VERY, VERY sparse. So people like myself and a few
others are left to trial and error techniques to implement these new
technologies because we HAVE to talk to the outside world and people
expect some sort of standard method to do this. Because of this approach
we take a lot longer to do something which I am sure is reasonably easy
if one was to have good quality examples available like most other
dbms/development environments have on the web


Phil (my 2c)

 
Nick Cipollina
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dawn Wolthuis
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 11:22 PM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: Re: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

I do understand the advantages to that approach, Nick. But that was
also the thinking of those who prepared the current industry
benchmarks by locking in on SQL.  My concern was that if you specify
technologies, you can make it difficult for solutions that are outside
the box.  --dawn

On 7/16/07, Nick Cipollina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> If the consumer of this data is

Re: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

[Brian Leach]

Nancy

this was discussed in the past at great length! To summarize:

When the U2UG was formed, we petitioned for IBM to open up their knowledge 
sources. The problem is their vars, some of whom do not want their users to get 
access (and presumably show up how p*ss p**r their support may be).

So a compromise was reached - if the var agrees, you can get access. Of course, 
some vars won't - but then you could always buy a single user UV from a 
sensible and capable var who will. that's probably worth the cost of the 
material anyway.

it's also one of the reasons we started the U2UG knowledge base - and we're 
about to launch a Wiki on the same site.

Brian


Why doesn't IBM allow access to all information that would help users - 
we've already bought the product?

Nancy Fisher
Peninsula Truck Lines, Inc
Auburn, Washington
253/929-2040
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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[U2] RE: books

[Tony Gravagno]

Charles Barouch wrote:
> If you want books, we need to commit to publishers.

I'm about to self-publish a book called Using DesignBais.  Printing the 300
page book with good quality paper, images, nice binding, etc, costs about
$50 per copy.  I have to pay for many books to be shipped to me, and I will
ship to anyone who orders so my cost of business goes up a little there.
The end-user cost of the book will be $200 per copy, which is further
weighted to account for the lack of volume in our community.  I originally
apologized for the price but given the specialized content I've not heard a
single complaint about the price.  In fact I'm pleasantly overwhelmed at
the excitement this offering has generated and I'm encouraged to do more.

So, we don't really need publishers who need guarantees of much larger
volumes.  I share this experience in the hope that some other author might
be interested in following the same path to write and self-publish
user-friendly books or booklets on U2-related topics.  This is specialized
info we're after and I don't think there are many people here who would see
this as anything other than a normal and necessary business expense, so
from my recent experience I think such an effort would be rewarded.

Getting advance orders should (arguably) be a standard operating procedure
for some, maybe with some third-party taking orders/cash "in escrow" so to
speak.  With so many people saying they want something and then not
ordering after extended development (been there, done that), the "trust but
verify" strategy is hardly unjustified.  Writing material like this takes
months out of someone's life, and if material doesn't sell after that much
effort, it's doubtful that this community will get many more chances to
dangle the same carrot.

HTH
TG@ scribblescribblescribbleNebula-RnD.com
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RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

[Norman Morgan]

> others. And all together, the total volume eventually sold of 
> U2 books will not reach one-sixty-fourth the level of the 
> pending Harry Potter book. Still, I predict that a fair 

A safe bet, since the initial U.S. printing is 12 million copies.

===
Norman Morgan <> [EMAIL PROTECTED] <> http://www.brake.com
===
Two rules for success: 1. Don't tell everything you know.
===
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RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

[Robert Kubarych]

I would pony up for a U2 book.  


Robert K. Kubarych
Network Services
Bergen Community College

CONFIDENTIALITY: This e-mail (including any attachments) may contain
confidential, proprietary and privileged information, and unauthorized
disclosure or use is prohibited. If you received this e-mail in error,
please notify the sender and delete this e-mail from your system.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George R Smith
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 12:06 PM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

Lets see I just spent 50.00 for a book on ajax, 80 for a book on
real estate accounting, 50 for a book on netbeans. Of course, I would
spend money on a book about Pick/U2/mvBasic on Cache. 

I WOULD however exclude one author even if they gave the book away - so
let
us see the authors first.

george

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-u2-
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charles Barouch
> Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 8:58 AM
> To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance
> 
> Robert,
> There is a firmly held belief that if
> books were available, that we, as a group, are too cheap to buy them.
Clif
> Oliver (who ran this list for 9 years) used to edit a Pick series of
> O'Reilly. When I contacted Tim O'Reilly about a year ago, proposing
new MV
> books, he said that he'd love to, but he can't afford to lose that
kind of
> money.
>  If you want books, we need to commit
> to publishers. I'm sure Brian would be willing to put up a sign-up
sheet
> on U2UG.org, so we can submit a list of people who promise to buy at
least
> one copy if a publisher will print a new book. I think a pre-order of
1K
> copies would get us some traction. Are we willing to spend $15 to $50
a
> piece for a new U2 book? I don't think they'll have trouble finding
> willing writers.
> 
> --
> Charles Barouch
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Consulting
> (718) 762-3884x1
> ---
> u2-users mailing list
> u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
> To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
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RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

[Mark Eastwood]

And just for amusement - both Tab and Hayden (at one time) ran their
Accounting/Warehouse/Distribution/Subscription systems on "Pick".

Mark


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jerry Banker
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 8:14 AM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

I was looking at our bookshelf, we have the old series of soft cover
manuals from V-Mark on UniVerse and then we have several books on PICK,
none of which is new. Our PICK books are from 1985 to 1990 mostly
published by TAB Professional and Reference Books, one is from Hayden
Book Company; 
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RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

[Smith, Robert]

Charles,

 I think there may be a larger potential audience than Tim is aware of. I 
believe some topical areas may sell faster than others. And all together, the 
total volume eventually sold of U2 books will not reach one-sixty-fourth the 
level of the pending Harry Potter book. Still, I predict that a fair number of 
U2 books could be sold. I've seen books for just about every other subject 
under the sun being published recently...some about total nonsense. Books that 
reach general circulation. The U2 environment is a thriving entity, with world 
wide scope, with many incredibly intelligent practitioners, whose engines 
(Universe and Unidata) are marketed by one of the largest IT firms in the 
world. Why can't one or two of these new books be U2 related? 

 It would be nice to supplement any training that a new employee receives, with 
books related to the U2 environment. 

Rob

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Charles Barouch
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 9:58 AM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance


Robert,
There is a firmly held belief that if
books were available, that we, as a group, are too cheap to buy them. Clif
Oliver (who ran this list for 9 years) used to edit a Pick series of
O'Reilly. When I contacted Tim O'Reilly about a year ago, proposing new MV
books, he said that he'd love to, but he can't afford to lose that kind of
money.
 If you want books, we need to commit
to publishers. I'm sure Brian would be willing to put up a sign-up sheet
on U2UG.org, so we can submit a list of people who promise to buy at least
one copy if a publisher will print a new book. I think a pre-order of 1K
copies would get us some traction. Are we willing to spend $15 to $50 a
piece for a new U2 book? I don't think they'll have trouble finding
willing writers.

-- 
Charles Barouch
[EMAIL PROTECTED] - Consulting
(718) 762-3884x1
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Re: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

[Cliff Bennett]

I'll purchase two!  One for each developer.  -Cliff

  - Original Message -
  From: Brenda Price
  To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
  Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 7:17 AM
  Subject: RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance


  So would I.

  -Original Message-
  From: Norman Morgan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 9:58 AM
  To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
  Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

  > Are we willing to spend $15 to $50 a piece for a new U2 book?
  > I don't think they'll have trouble finding willing writers.

  I certainly would be!  I'm old-fashioned enough to prefer real books
  over electronic media.  You can read words on paper anywhere, no
  batteries required.

  ===
  Norman Morgan <> [EMAIL PROTECTED] <> http://www.brake.com
  ===
  A committee is twelve people doing the work of one.
  ===
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Re: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

[Nancy Fisher]

Why doesn't IBM allow access to all information that would help users - 
we've already bought the product?


Nancy Fisher
Peninsula Truck Lines, Inc
Auburn, Washington
253/929-2040
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message - 
From: "Smith, Robert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 6:14 AM
Subject: RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance



Good Morning,

I really enjoyed reading this thread. I can honestly say that the 
diversity of experiences and people who comprise this listserv is amazing. 
And I've found the shared knowledge to be invaluable. As one who has not 
been immersed in the U2 environment for an extended period of time, there 
is one item that serves as a continued source of frustration. And it's 
exactly what Phil mentions below...sparse documentation. Not only for new 
stuff, but also for what I consider to be "general items". More than once 
I have had a problem and through research, found that a PDF containing 
possibly pertinent information could be obtained from the IBM web site. 
Knowing it was there did me absolutely no good at all. Because my 
connection to the U2 world is through our software vendor, IBM has 
consistently refused to acknowledge/honor any request that I've made for 
information. And based upon the feedback I have gotten at times from the 
vendors support center, they (the support center) has a equ!
ally difficult time extracting U2 information from IBM. And it's not like 
there are selves full of books on U2 that I could turn to for 
research...at least not that I've seen. I can go to any major book store 
and find two or three selves of books on MS SQL and NONE on U2. This was 
particularly frustrating when I was first getting started with U2 four 
years ago. "How could there be no books?" Regardless of the bookstores 
I've visited over the years, the results has always been the same. I have 
since learned that, outside of spending thousands of dollars to go to 
vendor sponsored "training" classes (and receiving their training books), 
the best way to learn about things in this environment is through the 
listservs...word of mouth...trial and error. For one who has spent a 
considerable amount of time (with past systems I've supported) over the 
years plowing through technical manuals learning the nuances of how to 
best work with a product, being denied that information is very !

frustrating. The only consolation are listserves such as this one.

The U2 industry is ill served by what I perceive to be an informational 
void relative to the product. And the tragedy is that this is a really 
good family of products. Very worthy of recognition along with the other 
major players in the RDBMS arena. Something should be done to free up this 
log-jam. And the first thing that would be really helpful is if IBM 
allowed both their direct customers AND the clients of those customers 
(such as myself), direct access to all aspects of the critical information 
contained upon their web site. Maybe then people will start writing books 
about U2.


My two cents,
Rob

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of phil walker
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 4:22 PM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance


Nick,

Here, here to your following statements

To me, this is part of the problem that we have in the MV world.  We
look at how things are being done elsewhere and say, "Pick does it
better, we aren't going to do that."  The problem with this approach is
that everyone else is adopting these standards and using them.  We are
going to be left further behind if we don't start using some of the
technologies available to us.

.

And this is where this list breaks down in that a lot of the new
features IBM are building into the product are not used/discussed and
the documentation is VERY, VERY sparse. So people like myself and a few
others are left to trial and error techniques to implement these new
technologies because we HAVE to talk to the outside world and people
expect some sort of standard method to do this. Because of this approach
we take a lot longer to do something which I am sure is reasonably easy
if one was to have good quality examples available like most other
dbms/development environments have on the web


Phil (my 2c)


Nick Cipollina
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dawn Wolthuis
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 11:22 PM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: Re: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

I do understand the advantages to that approach, Nick. But that was
also the thinking of those who prepared the current industry
benchmarks by locking in on SQL.  My concern was that if you specify
technologies, you can make it difficult for solutions that are outside
the box.  --dawn

On 7/16/07, Nick Cipollina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

If the consumer of this data is go

RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

[George R Smith]

Lets see I just spent 50.00 for a book on ajax, 80 for a book on
real estate accounting, 50 for a book on netbeans. Of course, I would
spend money on a book about Pick/U2/mvBasic on Cache. 

I WOULD however exclude one author even if they gave the book away - so let
us see the authors first.

george

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-u2-
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charles Barouch
> Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 8:58 AM
> To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance
> 
> Robert,
> There is a firmly held belief that if
> books were available, that we, as a group, are too cheap to buy them. Clif
> Oliver (who ran this list for 9 years) used to edit a Pick series of
> O'Reilly. When I contacted Tim O'Reilly about a year ago, proposing new MV
> books, he said that he'd love to, but he can't afford to lose that kind of
> money.
>  If you want books, we need to commit
> to publishers. I'm sure Brian would be willing to put up a sign-up sheet
> on U2UG.org, so we can submit a list of people who promise to buy at least
> one copy if a publisher will print a new book. I think a pre-order of 1K
> copies would get us some traction. Are we willing to spend $15 to $50 a
> piece for a new U2 book? I don't think they'll have trouble finding
> willing writers.
> 
> --
> Charles Barouch
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Consulting
> (718) 762-3884x1
> ---
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> u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
> To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
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[U2] UniObjects Disconnect Issue

[Michael Sprague]

   Hello all,
   We've been using UniObjects middleware to connect to UniData for developing
   Web applications.  We've always used the middleware that came with v6 of
   UniData.   We  have  been unable to use the middleware from v7.  I was
   wondering if anyone might be able to identify what we are doing wrong.  We
   are connecting to UniData 7.
   This code works with the v6 middleware, but does not work with v7
   objConn.setHostName("ourhost.ourcollege.edu");
   objConn.setaccountpath("/valid/path/to/home/");
   objConn.setUserName("ourusername");
   objConn.setPassword("ourpassword");
   objConn.connect();
   webgetapp = objConn.subroutine("SUB.ROUT.INE",2);
   webgetapp.setArg(0,"");
   webgetapp.setArg(1,"somevalue");
   webgetapp.call();
   getAppResults =  webgetapp.getArg(0)
   objConn.disconnect();
   On v6 middleware, this return the results properly in the getAppResults
   variable.  On v7 middleware, it does this...
   " An exception occurred when executing method disconnect."
   java.lang.NullPointerException
   at asjava.uniobjects.UniJava.closeSessionInternal(UniJava.java:225)
   at asjava.uniobjects.UniSession.disconnect(UniSession.java:535)
   Any thoughts?  We'd eventually like to get our middleware up to a more
   recent version to take advantage of some new features.
   -Mike
   ___
   Michael J. Sprague / Director, Web Services
   Hamilton College / 198 College Hill Road / Clinton, NY 13323
   [EMAIL PROTECTED] / 315-859-4087 office / 315-794-6831 mobile
   Wednesday, July 18, 2007 12:00 PM (Thunderbird 2.0.0.4) 
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RE: [U2] RE: mv.NET and UO

[Bill Haskett]

Symeon:

This is useful when outside developers are working on a test U2 dbms within our
network.  This way, we don't have to install UO/UO.NET (a 450Mb download) or 
mess
with our firewalls.  Quite useful, really.  :-)

Bill 

>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Symeon Breen
>Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 4:11 AM
>To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
>Subject: RE: [U2] RE: mv.NET and UO
>
>mv.NET can also connect back to the host via telnet - which always makes me
>grin, but I am sure it has its uses.
>
>
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tony Gravagno
>Sent: 18 July 2007 08:46
>To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
>Subject: [U2] RE: mv.NET and UO
>
>Just to clarify - mv.NET can use standard UO but has also been enabled to
>use UO.NET for a long time now, and standard UO might not even be supported
>in a near-future release.  It's preferable to use managed components all
>the way through, so UO.NET is the preferred pipe.
>T
>
>LeRoy Dreyfuss wrote:
>>
>> mv.NET from BlueFinity would be using standard UniObjects and as
>> such, could not take advantage of connection pooling from U2 (CP).
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RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

[Bill Haskett]

LeRoy:

Thanks for the information.  I think I mentioned we're using mv.NET with the 
UO.NET
connection (not UniObjects).  U2 connection pooling is supposed to work with 
UO.NET.
In order for mv.NET to work I just need to make sure I have enough U2 licenses. 
 Why
I couldn't purchase a UD connection pooling license and expect it to work, as 
an MV
developer, is something I'd like to track down.  Surely, I can't be expected to 
have
the technical knowledge and experience of BlueFinity in order to implement 
connection
pooling in my little MV application, with .NET components.  :-)

I think this is the point Phil was making, which I gave some anecdotal 
information to
support.

Bill

>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of LeRoy Dreyfuss
>Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 8:51 PM
>To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
>Subject: RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance
>
>Bill,
>
>mv.NET from BlueFinity would be using standard UniObjects and 
>as such, could not take advantage of connection pooling from 
>U2 (CP). There may be licensing implications with U2 that 
>require one to acquire CP licenses to use mv.NET, though.
>
>In any case, it is a simple matter of changing the license 
>configuration (and paying the appropriate fee, of course) of 
>either UniData or UniVerse to enable it. If you find the 
>documentation from IBM not exactly what you need in terms of 
>using CP in your application, there is a white paper on their 
>(IBM U2) Website at: 
>ftp://ftp.software.ibm.com/software/data/u2/pubs/whitepapers/ib
>mu2-microsoftnet.pdf
>You might find the white paper useful.
>
>Regards,
>
>LeRoy
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bill Haskett
>Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 11:49 AM
>To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
>Subject: RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance
>
>Phil:
>
>A quick example is I'm trying to find out how their Connection Pool license 
>works.
>Noone seems to know nor can I find out how this integrates with mv.Net using 
>UO.NET
>as the connection.  I can't find out how to configure a connection pool, 
>monitor the
>connections, or anything else.  [sigh]  :-(
>
>Bill
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RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

[Bill Haskett]

Nick:

The clarity of the mv.NET pooling description is subject to debate (there's 
pooling,
sharing, allocated, free, etc).  The developers were kind enough to explain it 
to me
once but I still find it confusing to implement.  One has to be careful because 
the
.NET code does have an effect on the pooling (no caching of connection objects 
[?]).
One also has to remember the UO.NET version is critical; get the wrong version 
and
the environment becomes difficult at best.  But we struggle on.  :-)

We purchased a UO connection pool license for testing.  Our thought was this 
would
handle all our mv.NET connections into the dbms, using UO.NET, so we wouldn't 
need to
purchase separate licenses.  We're still trying to track down this possibility.

Bill

>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nick Cipollina
>Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 7:14 PM
>To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
>Subject: RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance
>
>Bill,
>
>If you are using MV.NET, it has its own connection pooling which
>is pretty well documented.  That being the case, you don't even 
>need to use the UO.NET built in connection pooling.
>
>Thanks,
> 
>Nick Cipollina
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bill Haskett
>Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 9:49 PM
>To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
>Subject: RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance
>
>Phil:
>
>A quick example is I'm trying to find out how their Connection Pool
>license works.  Noone seems to know nor can I find out how this
>integrates with mv.Net using UO.NET as the connection.  I can't
>find out how to configure a connection pool, monitor the
>connections, or anything else.  [sigh]  :-(
>
>Bill
>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of phil walker
>>Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 4:56 PM
>>To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
>>Subject: RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance
>>
>>Leroy,
>>
>>I know IBM are implementing much of these new technologies with regard
>>to U2. The problem that I see is that it may be there, but a lot of
>the people in the list cannot find information on how to use it either
>>because this information
>>
>>* does not exist
>>* exists but in very basic examples which do not show a 'real'
>>  business solution, e.g. order processing or something similar
>>* exists but they do not have access to it .e.g. IBM Knowledgebase...
>>
>>Those are the issues as I see it. How to tie up the 
>>Webservices,Soap,XML schemas etc, triggers, and existing
>>BASIC subroutines. And what is good and bad practice.
>>
>>Cheers,
>>
>>Phil.
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RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

[Brenda Price]

So would I.

-Original Message-
From: Norman Morgan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 9:58 AM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

> Are we willing to spend $15 to $50 a piece for a new U2 book? 
> I don't think they'll have trouble finding willing writers.

I certainly would be!  I'm old-fashioned enough to prefer real books
over electronic media.  You can read words on paper anywhere, no
batteries required.

===
Norman Morgan <> [EMAIL PROTECTED] <> http://www.brake.com
===
A committee is twelve people doing the work of one.
===
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RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

[Jerry Banker]

I was looking at our bookshelf, we have the old series of soft cover
manuals from V-Mark on UniVerse and then we have several books on PICK,
none of which is new. Our PICK books are from 1985 to 1990 mostly
published by TAB Professional and Reference Books, one is from Hayden
Book Company; Exploring the PICK Operating System by Jonathan E. Sisk
and Steve VanArsdale. The TAB books are: PICK for the IBM PC and
Compatibles by John W. Winters, PH.D and Dale E. Winters; Programming
with IBM PC Basic and the PICK Database System by David L. Clark; PICK
Basic A Programmers Guide by Jonathan E. Sisk; The PICK Perspective by
Ian Jeffery Sandler; PICK for Professionals Advanced Methods and
Techniques by Harvey E. Rodstein and lastly, The PICK Pocket Guide by
Jonathan E. Sisk. This last one I think has stopped many people at the
airport luggage check. Although they are old they still come in handy
especially when training new people. It would be nice to have newer
books to choose from with more updated programming techniques,
applications, and languages. As Alice's Restaurant says, "With circles
and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one saying what they was
all about." 
Jerry

-Original Message-
From: Charles Barouch [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 8:58 AM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

Robert,
There is a firmly held belief that if
books were available, that we, as a group, are too cheap to buy them.
Clif
Oliver (who ran this list for 9 years) used to edit a Pick series of
O'Reilly. When I contacted Tim O'Reilly about a year ago, proposing new
MV
books, he said that he'd love to, but he can't afford to lose that kind
of
money.
 If you want books, we need to commit
to publishers. I'm sure Brian would be willing to put up a sign-up sheet
on U2UG.org, so we can submit a list of people who promise to buy at
least
one copy if a publisher will print a new book. I think a pre-order of 1K
copies would get us some traction. Are we willing to spend $15 to $50 a
piece for a new U2 book? I don't think they'll have trouble finding
willing writers.

-- 
Charles Barouch
[EMAIL PROTECTED] - Consulting
(718) 762-3884x1
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RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

[Norman Morgan]

> Are we willing to spend $15 to $50 a piece for a new U2 book? 
> I don't think they'll have trouble finding willing writers.

I certainly would be!  I'm old-fashioned enough to prefer real books
over electronic media.  You can read words on paper anywhere, no
batteries required.

===
Norman Morgan <> [EMAIL PROTECTED] <> http://www.brake.com
===
A committee is twelve people doing the work of one.
===
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[U2] [AD] UniData Programmer position

[David Beahm]

MI Windows & Doors is a leading manufacturer of vinyl, aluminum & 
cellular windows & doors. Privately owned since 1947, we have focused on 
great people making great products.  We are looking for a creative, 
highly motivated individual to join our team at our Corporate 
Headquarters in central PA as Programmer Analyst, Business Applications.


Focus of this key position is to design, develop & implement complex IT 
applications that support the business goals of MIWD.  Person will be 
responsible for recommending, developing, implementing, and supporting 
high quality, cost-effective technology solutions for all aspects of the 
organization by:


	- applying knowledge of programming techniques & computer systems for 
user requests or project related objectives


- analyzing & developing system components

	- consulting with users & technical staff to identify current 
procedures & clarify programming objectives


- converting user specifications or requirements into programming code

	- designing flowcharts, data models, and diagrams, then converting same 
into object oriented code


	- creating, managing & maintaining entity relationship & data flow 
diagrams to document database structures


Successful candidate will have:
	- min. 5 years programming experience in business applications & custom 
software planning & development
	- UniData/Universe/System Builder knowledge & UNIX-related platform 
experience

- strong verbal & written skills
- proven analytical & problem solving abilities
- willingness to travel occasionally

Desired traits:
- experience in InfoFlo 7.0+ or related environment
- previous experience in a manufacturing environment
- strong technical knowledge of Microsoft network & PC operating systems
	- strong technical knowledge of current Microsoft development tools, 
protocols, & standards - Visual Studio 2005, SQL Server 2005

- BS/BA degree in CS or related IT degree, or equivalent work experience

We offer a competitive & comprehensive compensation package.  To apply, 
send resume to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] or fax to 717-365-3480. EOE

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RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

[Jerry Banker]

AMEN!!

-Original Message-
From: Smith, Robert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 8:14 AM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

Good Morning,

 I really enjoyed reading this thread. I can honestly say that the
diversity of experiences and people who comprise this listserv is
amazing. And I've found the shared knowledge to be invaluable. As one
who has not been immersed in the U2 environment for an extended period
of time, there is one item that serves as a continued source of
frustration. And it's exactly what Phil mentions below...sparse
documentation. Not only for new stuff, but also for what I consider to
be "general items". More than once I have had a problem and through
research, found that a PDF containing possibly pertinent information
could be obtained from the IBM web site. Knowing it was there did me
absolutely no good at all. Because my connection to the U2 world is
through our software vendor, IBM has consistently refused to
acknowledge/honor any request that I've made for information. And based
upon the feedback I have gotten at times from the vendors support
center, they (the support center) has a equ!
 ally difficult time extracting U2 information from IBM. And it's not
like there are selves full of books on U2 that I could turn to for
research...at least not that I've seen. I can go to any major book store
and find two or three selves of books on MS SQL and NONE on U2. This was
particularly frustrating when I was first getting started with U2 four
years ago. "How could there be no books?" Regardless of the bookstores
I've visited over the years, the results has always been the same. I
have since learned that, outside of spending thousands of dollars to go
to vendor sponsored "training" classes (and receiving their training
books), the best way to learn about things in this environment is
through the listservs...word of mouth...trial and error. For one who has
spent a considerable amount of time (with past systems I've supported)
over the years plowing through technical manuals learning the nuances of
how to best work with a product, being denied that information is very !
 frustrating. The only consolation are listserves such as this one. 

 The U2 industry is ill served by what I perceive to be an informational
void relative to the product. And the tragedy is that this is a really
good family of products. Very worthy of recognition along with the other
major players in the RDBMS arena. Something should be done to free up
this log-jam. And the first thing that would be really helpful is if IBM
allowed both their direct customers AND the clients of those customers
(such as myself), direct access to all aspects of the critical
information contained upon their web site. Maybe then people will start
writing books about U2.

My two cents,
Rob

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of phil walker
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 4:22 PM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance


Nick,

Here, here to your following statements

To me, this is part of the problem that we have in the MV world.  We
look at how things are being done elsewhere and say, "Pick does it
better, we aren't going to do that."  The problem with this approach is
that everyone else is adopting these standards and using them.  We are
going to be left further behind if we don't start using some of the
technologies available to us.

.

And this is where this list breaks down in that a lot of the new
features IBM are building into the product are not used/discussed and
the documentation is VERY, VERY sparse. So people like myself and a few
others are left to trial and error techniques to implement these new
technologies because we HAVE to talk to the outside world and people
expect some sort of standard method to do this. Because of this approach
we take a lot longer to do something which I am sure is reasonably easy
if one was to have good quality examples available like most other
dbms/development environments have on the web


Phil (my 2c)

 
Nick Cipollina
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dawn Wolthuis
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 11:22 PM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: Re: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

I do understand the advantages to that approach, Nick. But that was
also the thinking of those who prepared the current industry
benchmarks by locking in on SQL.  My concern was that if you specify
technologies, you can make it difficult for solutions that are outside
the box.  --dawn

On 7/16/07, Nick Cipollina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> If the consumer of this data is going to be external, then I would
> definitely use web services.  Using a standard format (SOAP) will make
> it possible for anyone to consume the data.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Nick Cipollina
> -Ori

RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

[Charles Barouch]

Robert,
There is a firmly held belief that if
books were available, that we, as a group, are too cheap to buy them. Clif
Oliver (who ran this list for 9 years) used to edit a Pick series of
O'Reilly. When I contacted Tim O'Reilly about a year ago, proposing new MV
books, he said that he'd love to, but he can't afford to lose that kind of
money.
 If you want books, we need to commit
to publishers. I'm sure Brian would be willing to put up a sign-up sheet
on U2UG.org, so we can submit a list of people who promise to buy at least
one copy if a publisher will print a new book. I think a pre-order of 1K
copies would get us some traction. Are we willing to spend $15 to $50 a
piece for a new U2 book? I don't think they'll have trouble finding
willing writers.

-- 
Charles Barouch
[EMAIL PROTECTED] - Consulting
(718) 762-3884x1
---
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RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

[Smith, Robert]

Good Morning,

 I really enjoyed reading this thread. I can honestly say that the diversity of 
experiences and people who comprise this listserv is amazing. And I've found 
the shared knowledge to be invaluable. As one who has not been immersed in the 
U2 environment for an extended period of time, there is one item that serves as 
a continued source of frustration. And it's exactly what Phil mentions 
below...sparse documentation. Not only for new stuff, but also for what I 
consider to be "general items". More than once I have had a problem and through 
research, found that a PDF containing possibly pertinent information could be 
obtained from the IBM web site. Knowing it was there did me absolutely no good 
at all. Because my connection to the U2 world is through our software vendor, 
IBM has consistently refused to acknowledge/honor any request that I've made 
for information. And based upon the feedback I have gotten at times from the 
vendors support center, they (the support center) has a equ!
 ally difficult time extracting U2 information from IBM. And it's not like 
there are selves full of books on U2 that I could turn to for research...at 
least not that I've seen. I can go to any major book store and find two or 
three selves of books on MS SQL and NONE on U2. This was particularly 
frustrating when I was first getting started with U2 four years ago. "How could 
there be no books?" Regardless of the bookstores I've visited over the years, 
the results has always been the same. I have since learned that, outside of 
spending thousands of dollars to go to vendor sponsored "training" classes (and 
receiving their training books), the best way to learn about things in this 
environment is through the listservs...word of mouth...trial and error. For one 
who has spent a considerable amount of time (with past systems I've supported) 
over the years plowing through technical manuals learning the nuances of how to 
best work with a product, being denied that information is very !
 frustrating. The only consolation are listserves such as this one. 

 The U2 industry is ill served by what I perceive to be an informational void 
relative to the product. And the tragedy is that this is a really good family 
of products. Very worthy of recognition along with the other major players in 
the RDBMS arena. Something should be done to free up this log-jam. And the 
first thing that would be really helpful is if IBM allowed both their direct 
customers AND the clients of those customers (such as myself), direct access to 
all aspects of the critical information contained upon their web site. Maybe 
then people will start writing books about U2.

My two cents,
Rob

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of phil walker
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 4:22 PM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance


Nick,

Here, here to your following statements

To me, this is part of the problem that we have in the MV world.  We
look at how things are being done elsewhere and say, "Pick does it
better, we aren't going to do that."  The problem with this approach is
that everyone else is adopting these standards and using them.  We are
going to be left further behind if we don't start using some of the
technologies available to us.

.

And this is where this list breaks down in that a lot of the new
features IBM are building into the product are not used/discussed and
the documentation is VERY, VERY sparse. So people like myself and a few
others are left to trial and error techniques to implement these new
technologies because we HAVE to talk to the outside world and people
expect some sort of standard method to do this. Because of this approach
we take a lot longer to do something which I am sure is reasonably easy
if one was to have good quality examples available like most other
dbms/development environments have on the web


Phil (my 2c)

 
Nick Cipollina
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dawn Wolthuis
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 11:22 PM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: Re: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

I do understand the advantages to that approach, Nick. But that was
also the thinking of those who prepared the current industry
benchmarks by locking in on SQL.  My concern was that if you specify
technologies, you can make it difficult for solutions that are outside
the box.  --dawn

On 7/16/07, Nick Cipollina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> If the consumer of this data is going to be external, then I would
> definitely use web services.  Using a standard format (SOAP) will make
> it possible for anyone to consume the data.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Nick Cipollina
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dawn Wolthuis
> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 4:58 PM
> To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
> Subject

RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

[Nick Cipollina]

Yeah,  I played around with it, and the overhead that is added is
typically a couple hundred milliseconds.  That is not much, but we
typically get responses from our existing processes in .005 seconds,
those couple hundred milliseconds make a huge difference.  I should
clarify my statement, the performance for a typical app is sufficient,
but not for what we are doing.

Thanks,
 
Nick Cipollina
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bill Haskett
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 9:54 PM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance

Nick:

We've developed an application in .NET using mv.NET to connect to
UniData and the
connectivity is screaming fast.  A complete .NET developer does all our
development
and we do all the dbms design and implementation.

The dbms development and connectivity gets done in no-time while the
.NET takes quite
a bit of time and requires a lot of patience.  :-)

Bill

>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nick Cipollina
>Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 6:29 PM
>To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
>Subject: RE: [U2] UniData 7.1 vs. MS SQL 2005 performance
>
>--Not quite so easy to go .net <-> UniVerse.
>
>Well put.  This is one of the issues we are running into.  We 
>are a .Net shop, and going from .Net to UV has been a challenge
>to say the least.  The primary issue being the overhead associated
>with access the data via uo.net.  Performance just isn't good enough.
>
>Thanks,
> 
>Nick Cipollina
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[U2] U2 University link

[Wally Terhune]

Phil Walker wrote:
* Firstly, where are they held and what costs are involved

http://www.ibm.com/software/info/u2/university/index.jsp
|---+-|
|Wally Terhune  |Register today for the premier U2|
|U2 Support Architect   |technical event! |
|   | |
|4700 South Syracuse Street | |
|Denver, CO 80237   | |
|Tel: (303) 773-7969   T/L  | |
|656-7969   | |
|Mobile: (303) 807-6222 | |
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|a/u2   | |
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Re: [U2] RE: mv.NET and UO

[Don Kibbey]

The current system I work on (not U2 based) uses a vb6 front end that
communicates via custom tcp/ip libraries to a backend component
running on a windows server within the MKS (unix) environment calling
into informix 4gl code that has been compiled against a translation
library to work with sql server 2005.

Users are currently wondering why it's all so god awful slow  :-)

There's much to be said for a quick and simple telnet interface.

--
Don Kibbey
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RE: [U2] RE: mv.NET and UO

[Symeon Breen]

mv.NET can also connect back to the host via telnet - which always makes me
grin, but I am sure it has its uses.




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tony Gravagno
Sent: 18 July 2007 08:46
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: [U2] RE: mv.NET and UO

Just to clarify - mv.NET can use standard UO but has also been enabled to
use UO.NET for a long time now, and standard UO might not even be supported
in a near-future release.  It's preferable to use managed components all
the way through, so UO.NET is the preferred pipe.
T

LeRoy Dreyfuss wrote:
> mv.NET from BlueFinity would be using standard UniObjects and as
> such, could not take advantage of connection pooling from U2 (CP).
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[U2] RE: mv.NET and UO

[Tony Gravagno]

Just to clarify - mv.NET can use standard UO but has also been enabled to
use UO.NET for a long time now, and standard UO might not even be supported
in a near-future release.  It's preferable to use managed components all
the way through, so UO.NET is the preferred pipe.
T

LeRoy Dreyfuss wrote:
> mv.NET from BlueFinity would be using standard UniObjects and as
> such, could not take advantage of connection pooling from U2 (CP).
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Re: [U2] [UV] Conversion code for week number

[Mats Carlid]

Please disregard and forget what I wrote below.
It just isn't true.

The formula will  fail on some odd dates.
The reason is that the average lenth of a calendar year is not constant
but depends on the year interval used . E.g. 2000-2099 has an average 
year of 365.25

but 2000-2399 has 365.247525

Sorry.

-- mats


Mats Carlid skrev:

A final (?) note on  year calculation shortcuts:

Had Dick chosen jan 1 in a year divisible by 400 as day 1 then

INT(DAY / 365.247525 )

  would have worked all the time.

But selecting a '400-year' starting on a sunday would result in quite
long internal dates unless year 2000 started on a sunday ( it didn't).


365.25 can only work for a limited time as it doesn't observe
the 100 and 400 year rules ...


-- mats
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