Re: Windows appearance issues

[Thomas McGrath III]

Ken,
That is the default tabbed control 'whatever' in windows. What it means 
is that that is the back most button and will be hit upon when the user 
hits 'enter'. You have to turn off all the selection stuff, you know, 
the traversal stuff etc. and leave only what you need for it to act 
like a button. I had this problem. It seems that windows users don't 
mind this look and enjoy the use of it. Also I just rebuilt my own set 
of buttons and hard coded them the way I wanted with color and drop 
shadows etc. and did not use OSX or Windows to avoid the ugliness and 
big differences, now they look the same on either system. Also I 
changed the accent color to match my new buttons and color scheme.

FWIW

Tom
On Feb 10, 2004, at 4:42 PM, Ken Norris wrote:
P.S.

Also, in the Windows preview, after you click a button it leaves a 
strange
racetrack sort of line around the inside of the button. What is that? 
It
stays there even after you leave the button. How do I get rid of it?

TIA,
Ken N.
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?

[Scott Rossi]

On 2/10/04 7:23 PM, "Dar Scott" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>> While I can't say I've pushed the engine as hard as the combined
>> talent of
>> this list, in my experience the engine's performance has been
>> exceptional.
> 
> I find this interesting.  And frustrating.
> 
> When the general assumption among the community is that the engine is
> perfect, then bug reports are considered spurious.

Hmm.  I did try to qualify my post with "in my experience..." but maybe that
was too subtle.  In any event, what *I* find frustrating is that you seem to
have ignored the message of my message.  What I suggested was, try to check
for problems you encounter outside the IDE.  You *might* get lucky and find
the problem was IDE related, not a fault of the engine.  Not only does this
benefit you, it will benefit the Rev guys in helping to track down where the
problem may reside.  I don't see how this suggestion lessens the importance
of bug reports.

BTW, if you re-read my post, you may notice that the word "perfect" is not
used anywhere.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Development & Design
-
E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com

___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Array question again.

[Geoff Canyon]

delete variable a

That clears the entire variable.

regards,

Geoff Canyon
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Feb 10, 2004, at 7:33 AM, Kevin wrote:



My question is regarding the underpinnings more than anything else.  
If I put empty into a[0] is a[0,1] a[0,2] ... also garb rage collected 
or must I set each individual element equal to empty to ensure 
collection?



___
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?

[Alex Rice]

On Feb 10, 2004, at 8:23 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

The best way to make the engine rock-solid is to knock over the idol.
Are you talking concrete, or just sedimentary sandstone or volcanic 
pumice? I used to prefer the term "bullet proof" but I recently viewed 
on The Science Channel that the firing of a spear point with a high 
velocity air cannon into a coat of replica Viking chain-mail...
oh never mind.   ;-)

I think I agree with what you are saying. To paraphrase: Let's never 
let cheerleading and advocacy blind us to actual bugs, which obviously 
can occur even in the metacard "engine" and not just in the Runrev IDE.

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?

[Robert Brenstein]

On Tuesday, February 10, 2004, at 07:05 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:

While I can't say I've pushed the engine as hard as the combined talent of
this list, in my experience the engine's performance has been exceptional.
I find this interesting.  And frustrating.

When the general assumption among the community is that the engine 
is perfect, then bug reports are considered spurious.

When I first started using Revolution two years ago, I assumed bugs 
would be fixed quickly.  This was a stupid and costly error on my 
part.  The roadblock I hit was the logic that Metacard is perfect, 
therefore the bug reports are wrong.  One crucial bug took over 7 
months to fix.  There were a handful of sockets bugs and yet folks 
were blindly using Revolution for all kinds of Internet apps. (The 
open process bugs are a mess and I don't even bother to report those 
any more.)  Did folks see my bugs and wonder whether that would 
affect their internet apps?  I didn't see it.  I suggested to one 
person his problems might be related to mine and his went away after 
mine were fixed and he shrugged it off.  Another complained that 
libURL was flakey.  Well, duh!

The best way to make the engine rock-solid is to knock over the idol.

Dar Scott
Nobody said perfect. Rock-solid does not mean bug-free. No program 
that has some complexity ever is. But MetaCard crashed barely ever (I 
found a couple ways to crash it but I was pushing it), most features 
worked as expected, and bugs were addressed in a reasonable time. I 
don't think we are trying to idealize/idolize MC. It was not perfect. 
But we want Rev to reach its level and better.

One significantly different thing about Rev is that not all 
features/functionality are implemented in the engine. And Rev team 
added a whole bunch of new stuff on top or next to the old stuff 
(when the two were developed in parallel). And Rev's IDE is so much 
more complex and introduces a number of kinks and funky behaviors 
that go away when it is turned off.

Robert
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

MacWorld Editor's Choice

[Sarah Reichelt]

Excerpt from the web page announcing the MacWorld Editor's Choice 
products for 2003:

Best Development Software

HyperCard, with its stacks metaphor, has a new heir in Runtime 
Revolution's Revolution Studio 2.1 ($299; www.runrev.com). It's the 
simplest write-once, deploy-everywhere solution, and it has enhanced 
support for OS X interface elements. Wonderful documentation and 
ambitious support for Internet infrastructure top off the package.

Anyone interested in the full list, can read it here:
http://www.macworld.com/2004/02/features/editorschoiceawards2004/
Another award for the RunRev trophy cabinet - congratulations!

Sarah
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.troz.net/Rev/
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?

[Dar Scott]

On Tuesday, February 10, 2004, at 07:05 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:

While I can't say I've pushed the engine as hard as the combined 
talent of
this list, in my experience the engine's performance has been 
exceptional.
I find this interesting.  And frustrating.

When the general assumption among the community is that the engine is 
perfect, then bug reports are considered spurious.

When I first started using Revolution two years ago, I assumed bugs 
would be fixed quickly.  This was a stupid and costly error on my part. 
 The roadblock I hit was the logic that Metacard is perfect, therefore 
the bug reports are wrong.  One crucial bug took over 7 months to fix.  
There were a handful of sockets bugs and yet folks were blindly using 
Revolution for all kinds of Internet apps. (The open process bugs are a 
mess and I don't even bother to report those any more.)  Did folks see 
my bugs and wonder whether that would affect their internet apps?  I 
didn't see it.  I suggested to one person his problems might be related 
to mine and his went away after mine were fixed and he shrugged it off. 
 Another complained that libURL was flakey.  Well, duh!

The best way to make the engine rock-solid is to knock over the idol.

Dar Scott



___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?

[Judy Perry]

A, but which Lingo?  Verbose or dot.syntax?

(Which I daresay confuses people just as you suggested in your previous
post).

Judy

On Tue, 10 Feb 2004, Dan Shafer wrote:

> And the new Director supports JavaScript alongside Lingo syntax. My
> bet: it'll just confuse everyone. (And I love Lingo, BTW)

___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?

[Scott Rossi]

>> I think that one of the selling points of MetaCard was its reputation
>> of being rock-solid. Rev should strive for the same.
> 
> Revolution might have a larger customer base and a customer base
> consisting of a broader range of customers.  This might contribute to a
> greater number of reported bugs as every nook and cranny is trampled.
> So for RunRev to maintain a like reputation of Revolution being
> rock-solid, the product may have to be many times over more rock-solid.
> RunRev should strive for that.

Related: when you come across an issue that hinders your project, make sure
to test the problem with the Rev IDE suspended.  More often than not, you
may find the issue is IDE related, and not a fault of the underlying engine.
The Rev IDE is still very new compared to what drives it.  Even MC's
idiosyncrasies could be bypassed in many cases by circumventing the IDE.

While I can't say I've pushed the engine as hard as the combined talent of
this list, in my experience the engine's performance has been exceptional.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Development & Design
-
E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com

___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: version control system (was mission critical apps)

[Dar Scott]

On Tuesday, February 10, 2004, at 05:33 PM, Wouter wrote:

Anyway opening stacks from binary data stored in custom properties is
much faster than reconstructing them from xml.
I have been pondering approaches like this.

Setting a stack's password property can destroy binary data, so care 
must be taken to not do that or to store save the data in a safe form.

Dar Scott

___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?

[Trevor DeVore]

On Feb 10, 2004, at 4:37 PM, Peter T. Evensen wrote:

Supporting JavaScript is an interesting idea.  I probably wouldn't 
used it, but I wonder if it would bring others to Revolution.

Authorware 7 added support for writing scripts in JavaScript instead 
of the Authorware scripting language.  Not sure why they decided to do 
that, unless they thought it might entice programmers to the 
Authorware camp...  Of course they had to add some Authorware specific 
objects so you could access everything in JS.
Probably because Authorware's scripting language was such a pain :-)

That was the first scripting language I was exposed to and I'm glad 
those days are behind me.

--
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Windows appearance issues

[Ken Norris]

Hi Chipp,

> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 19:14:17 -0600
> From: "Chipp Walters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: RE: Windows appearance issues

> I promised ButtonGadget on the Mac, but currently there's a serious bug in
> the alphaData routine on the Mac. Should be fixed soon and then I can
> port...
-
Gotcha!

Ken N.

___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?

[Dar Scott]

On Tuesday, February 10, 2004, at 06:18 PM, Robert Brenstein wrote:

I think that one of the selling points of MetaCard was its reputation 
of being rock-solid. Rev should strive for the same.
Revolution might have a larger customer base and a customer base 
consisting of a broader range of customers.  This might contribute to a 
greater number of reported bugs as every nook and cranny is trampled.  
So for RunRev to maintain a like reputation of Revolution being 
rock-solid, the product may have to be many times over more rock-solid. 
 RunRev should strive for that.

Dar Scott

___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: version control system (was mission critical apps)

[revolution]

Wouter wrote
>>
opening stacks from binary data stored in custom properties is
much faster than reconstructing them from xml
<<

Hi Wouter,

I agree.  But I think for the kind of VCS/integration projects which I 
imagine, then the speed would be a suitable trade-off for the flexibility 
of being able to manipulate one's stacks outside of the IDE.

Bernard
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?

[Frank Leahy]

On Wednesday, February 11, 2004, at 01:14  AM, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Supporting JavaScript is an interesting idea.  I probably wouldn't
used it, but I wonder if it would bring others to Revolution.

And the new Director supports JavaScript alongside Lingo syntax. My
bet: it'll just confuse everyone. (And I love Lingo, BTW)
~~
Dan Shafer, Revolutionary
Hah!  Lingo supports = (equal sign) as an assignment operator (plus 
lots of overloading +=, -=, etc.), so I guess "x = 1" can't be all that 
bad :-)

My bet is that it will lower the barrier against using it for those who 
know Javascript already -- "Hmmm, Director has Javascript syntax?  
Maybe it won't take as long to get up to speed as I previously thought 
it would."

-- Frank

___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?

[Robert Brenstein]

On Feb 10, 2004, at 3:37 PM, Peter T. Evensen wrote:

Supporting JavaScript is an interesting idea.  I probably wouldn't 
used it, but I wonder if it would bring others to Revolution.

Authorware 7 added support for writing scripts in JavaScript 
instead of the Authorware scripting language.  Not sure why they 
decided to do that, unless they thought it might entice programmers 
to the Authorware camp...  Of course they had to add some 
Authorware specific objects so you could access everything in JS.

And the new Director supports JavaScript alongside Lingo syntax. My 
bet: it'll just confuse everyone. (And I love Lingo, BTW)
If RunRev decides to add JavaScript just to be in par with those 
other environments and atract more users, so let be it. I can trust 
that they implement it reasonaly. After all, this can be done (as 
someone suggested) in an OSA-like approach, eliminating any potential 
confusion and keeping Transcript as we know it. However, I really, 
really hope that RunRev first finishes all the things they've already 
started (ie recent pr's), puts a true and serious effort into bug 
hunting (it seem they are getting serious about this), and implements 
the enhancements requested by the current user base. I think that one 
of the selling points of MetaCard was its reputation of being 
rock-solid. Rev should strive for the same.

Robert
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

RE: Windows appearance issues

[Chipp Walters]

I promised ButtonGadget on the Mac, but currently there's a serious bug in
the alphaData routine on the Mac. Should be fixed soon and then I can
port...

best,

Chipp

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Stephen
Quinn Barncard
Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 7:02 PM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: Windows appearance issues


That's funny, I had a version for OS9 about a year agoand it was free...

>
>Button Gadget is only for Windows AFAIK, but I'm developing on a Mac.
>
>All the best,
>Ken N.
>
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Windows appearance issues

[Stephen Quinn Barncard]

That's funny, I had a version for OS9 about a year agoand it was free...

Button Gadget is only for Windows AFAIK, but I'm developing on a Mac.

All the best,
Ken N.
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Windows appearance issues

[Ken Norris]

Hi Roger,

> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 16:39:31 -0500
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Windows appearance issues

> If you require that all of your buttons, etc. look exactly the same on all
> platforms, you will have to make everything yourself using images. Chipp
> Walters' Button Gadget makes nice buttons. And I'm sure he could use
> another plasma TV.  :-)

Thanks for the info.

Button Gadget is only for Windows AFAIK, but I'm developing on a Mac.

All the best,
Ken N.

___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: version control system (was mission critical apps)

[Wouter]

On 10 Feb 2004, at 20:20, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 18:12:32 +
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: version control system (was mission critical apps)
To: How to use Revolution <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID:
	

snip

I'm sorry Wouter, but I don't understand your question.  Could you
elaborate?
My idea is that all the components of a stack would be converted to  
XML so
that e.g. grepping/formatting/XML tools could be used to  
edit/manipulate
the components outside of Rev.  Moreover, the components should be  
able to
be selectively re-applied from the VCS e.g. you could go to the VCS and
browse to a version of a stack from last week, find the component, and
revert to the code for that component.

Indeed, as more and more data sources are exposing XML interfaces, I'm  
as
interested in the principle of being to generate stacks from XML as I  
am
in saving stacks as XML.

Bernard


Hello Bernard,
The principle of dissecting stacks into xml and resuscitating them from  
xml
is indeed very interesting.
But stack files are already an optimized kind of document. So I was  
wondering
which would be a more efficient way of archiving stacks, xml-files or  
storing
the binary data in custom properties?
Anyway opening stacks from binary data stored in custom properties is
much faster than reconstructing them from xml.

WA

___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?

[Dan Shafer]

On Feb 10, 2004, at 3:37 PM, Peter T. Evensen wrote:

Supporting JavaScript is an interesting idea.  I probably wouldn't 
used it, but I wonder if it would bring others to Revolution.

Authorware 7 added support for writing scripts in JavaScript instead 
of the Authorware scripting language.  Not sure why they decided to do 
that, unless they thought it might entice programmers to the 
Authorware camp...  Of course they had to add some Authorware specific 
objects so you could access everything in JS.

And the new Director supports JavaScript alongside Lingo syntax. My 
bet: it'll just confuse everyone. (And I love Lingo, BTW)



~~
Dan Shafer, Revolutionary
Author of  "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
http://www.revolutionpros.com for more info
Available at Runtime Revolution Store (http://www.runrev.com/RevPress)
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?

[Dan Shafer]

I've resisted comment as long as I can. It's torture.

Most of my feelings have been expressed by others, but there is one 
point that I think is perhaps under-appreciated.

The notion that we should add to the Transcript syntax to make the 
program less "beginnerish" (which I agree it isn't anyway except 
compared to the absolutely incomprehensible C and Perl languages, which 
I few as write-only) just because we *can* misses a key point.

A new person coming into the environment and looking for how to do 
something looks at scripts and docs. Unless you not only implement new 
and more complex syntax *in addition to* the regular syntax rather than 
instead of it, but also do not document it and discourage its use in 
scripts a newbie is likely to stumble over while learning, you still 
run the risk of alienating new programmers who look at the (let's face 
it) ugly C-like syntax and immediately head for REALBasic. The only 
other alternative, really, is to resort to levels or layers of access 
in a (generally futile but well-intended) effort to hide this stuff 
from people for whom it might be dangerous.

Nope. I'm with those who say to RunRev, "The syntax is beautiful. We 
don't care if 'real programmers' (whoever *they* are) think it's 
amateurish. We'll be happy to keep making a living by writing apps 
faster and cheaper than all those professionals do because we have a 
language that thinks like we do, not like the compiler does."

Dan out.

~~
Dan Shafer, Revolutionary
Author of  "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
http://www.revolutionpros.com for more info
Available at Runtime Revolution Store (http://www.runrev.com/RevPress)
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Thread Update

[Scott Rossi]

Recently, "David Squance"  wrote:

> Is there any chance that the keeper of the list archives will update
> the subject line of this thread?  I've been trashing these for a few
> days now, without looking at them (especially after getting 100 or
> so in one day) and now I find useful info with no connection to the
> given subject.

You can go back through the list archives:

  http://www.google.com/advanced_search?q=site:lists.runrev.com

Or

  http://mindlube.com/cgi-bin/search-use-rev.cgi

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-
E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com

___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?

[Jeanne A. E. DeVoto]

At 8:19 AM +0900 2/11/04, Doug Lerner wrote:
What is xTalk?
It's a generic term for the family of languages of which Transcript 
is one. The first was HyperTalk, and several of them have been of the 
form "somethingTalk" (SuperTalk, MetaTalk), hence "xTalk".
--
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.jaedworks.com
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?

[Peter T. Evensen]

Supporting JavaScript is an interesting idea.  I probably wouldn't used it, 
but I wonder if it would bring others to Revolution.

Authorware 7 added support for writing scripts in JavaScript instead of the 
Authorware scripting language.  Not sure why they decided to do that, 
unless they thought it might entice programmers to the Authorware 
camp...  Of course they had to add some Authorware specific objects so you 
could access everything in JS.

At 08:09 PM 2/9/2004, you wrote:
>(And BTW, if you've ever written a parser you know that
>adding support for this is trivial, and it will have zero impact on
>runtime performance.)
Then why not support JavaScript as an additional syntax to XTalk, at least
that way it will be consistant. It's not all that difficult either
http://www.mozilla.org/js/spidermonkey/
OSA supports multiple languages, so does .NET, and HyperCard used to support
Applescript. It is the framework, the easy way that you can write an app in
a few minutes with a familier easy to use visual object model that matters
like Doug said.
These languages are just tools and some people find some tools easier than
others. Personally I would rather support JavaScript and call it JavaScript
then impact the readability of the XTalk language for others. AFAIK
Macromedia didn't scrap lingo but added support for Javascript.
There are many things that can be added to improve the transcript language
and I'm all for it but prefer to discuss on the improve-list or a list set
up like the old XTalk list.
Tuviah
Peter T. Evensen
http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?

[Doug Lerner]

On 2/11/04 4:19 AM, "Dar Scott" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> In my mind I am not separating xTalk from Transcript from Revolution.

What is xTalk?

[EMAIL PROTECTED] afraid to reveal my ignorance

___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

RE: Windows appearance issues

[Ken Ray]

> > Also, in the Windows preview, after you click a button it leaves a 
> > strange racetrack sort of line around the inside of the 
> button. What 
> > is that? It stays there even after you leave the button.
> 
> This is how Windows shows button focus.

To turn this off, you can set the 'traversalOn' of the button to false. 

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 


___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

RE: Windows appearance issues

[Ken Ray]

> I switched to Windows preview, and everything got really 
> ugly. The Square buttons went flat, all turned into the 
> background color, the hilite comes out dark purple, the name 
> text doesn't turn white at hilite, can't tell a default 
> button from anything else, etc.

Welcome to Windows! This is NORMAL (believe it or not). This is called
the "Win95" look and feel - which a lot of Windows apps use. More modern
apps use the Windows XP look and feel (which should be coming to Rev
soon) but for right now, this is normal. 

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 


___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Andy's comments and positioning...

[J. Landman Gay]

On 2/10/04 3:06 PM, Robert Brenstein wrote:

What is the advantage of inserting backscript as opposed to just start 
using? Aside of course from the difference that I can insert script of 
any object as a backscript.
No real advantages per se, but there is a minor difference. Scripts that 
are in use are placed before the Home stack. Scripts inserted into the 
back are placed after the Home stack, just before the engine itself.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Andy's ... no longer

[David Squance]

Is there any chance that the keeper of the list archives will update
the subject line of this thread?  I've been trashing these for a few
days now, without looking at them (especially after getting 100 or
so in one day) and now I find useful info with no connection to the
given subject.
Dave

>>At 10:21 AM -0800 2/10/04, Judy Perry wrote:
>>>I was going to ask about this very solution that Jeanne suggests:
>>>
>>>How to do it?
>>>
>>>Sorry if this is a dumb question...
>>
>>Not at all.
>>
>>There are various ways to do it, but here's one:
>>
>>1. Create a stack with one button. In the button script, put the
>>handlers that you would put in the Home stack if this were HC.
>>
>>2. In the stack script, put
>>  on openStack
>>if the name of button "My Button" \
>>   is not among the lines of the backscripts
>>then insert the script of button "My Button" into back
>>  end openStack
>>
>>3. Save the stack in the Plugins folder.
>>
>>4. Choose Development menu > Plugins > Plugin Settings, choose your
>>plugin from the menu at the top, then choose "Revolution starts up"
>>and "invisible". (For this kind of plugin, you don't need to choose
>>any messages to send.)
>>--
>>jeanne a. e. devoto ~ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>http://www.jaedworks.com
>
>What is the advantage of inserting backscript as opposed to just
>start using? Aside of course from the difference that I can insert
>script of any object as a backscript.
>
>Robert
>___
>use-revolution mailing list
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?

[Judy Perry]

Me too!

I've never really understood why we start by teaching the really confusing
stuff and then offer the higher-level languages LAST (AND wonder why we
have horrendous attrition rates...).

It seems much more intuitive to get people to learn the general things in
a visual environment with natural-language like syntax and then transfer
that understanding to the more 'complicated' languages.

I think Decker even published an article in one of the ACM journals about
using HC back in the day for a CS1 course.

Which gets me back to wondering about the demise of the Analytical Engine
he did using HC and, later (ugh!) ToolBook?

Judy

On Tue, 10 Feb 2004, Marty Billingsley wrote:

> This got me thinking that Rev would be a *great* tool for moving
> students *into* the c/c++/java environment.  My 8th graders understand
>  set the visible of button "x" to false
>and
>  set the label of button "x" to "whatever"
>
> When they get to high school and prepping for the AP exam, which
> is now in java, it would be really nice to be able to equate the
> above statements with:
>  x.visible = false
>and
>  x.label = "whatever"
> (may not have the syntax exactly right, but you know what I mean)
>
> This would be a gentle introduction to a confusing syntax (okay,
> confusing to those seeing it for the first time :-).  I'm always
> looking for ways to spend less time on syntax and more time on
> the bigger picture (how to design good programs, etc.).


___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Andy's comments and positioning...

[Judy Perry]

Great!  Can't wait to try it.

Thanks, Jeanne!

Judy

On Tue, 10 Feb 2004, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:

> At 10:21 AM -0800 2/10/04, Judy Perry wrote:
> >I was going to ask about this very solution that Jeanne suggests:
> >
> >How to do it?
> >
> >Sorry if this is a dumb question...
>
> Not at all.
>
> There are various ways to do it, but here's one:
>
> 1. Create a stack with one button. In the button script, put the
> handlers that you would put in the Home stack if this were HC.
>
> 2. In the stack script, put
>   on openStack
> if the name of button "My Button" \
>is not among the lines of the backscripts
> then insert the script of button "My Button" into back
>   end openStack
>
> 3. Save the stack in the Plugins folder.
>
> 4. Choose Development menu > Plugins > Plugin Settings, choose your
> plugin from the menu at the top, then choose "Revolution starts up"
> and "invisible". (For this kind of plugin, you don't need to choose
> any messages to send.)
> --
> jeanne a. e. devoto ~ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.jaedworks.com
> ___
> use-revolution mailing list
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>

___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?

[Judy Perry]

Sure, this is a perfectly valid point.  Most tools have their place; some
are more extensible or perhaps farther-reaching than others...

I largely have no need for the power/etc. of C et al.  Others likely do.

I would just hate for the elegance and comprehensible nature of xTalks to
be compromised because 'it's not how it's done in C' et al.  Lingo is I
think a good example.  Started out okay, now is "a mishmash of C" and its
original xTalk qualities, with the former taking over the latter...

For the folks who need it, the traditional systems programming languages
will probably always be there.  I just hope that xTalks will, too.

Judy

On Tue, 10 Feb 2004, jbv wrote:

> Funny how many of you seem to always approach this
> discussion as X-talk vs C (or other languages)...
> I already posted a similar remark to this list (or to the MC
> list), but another point of view is possible : the association
> of Xtalk and C can lead to a tremendous power in high end
> projects, Rev & Xtalk being used to build top quality front
> ends (with unbeatable productivity & cost ratios) while C
> being used in externals for critical high end tasks (realtime
> 3D, data base access and many other industrial & scientific
> processes)...

___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Windows appearance issues

[Scott Rossi]

Recently, "Ken Norris"  wrote:

> Also, in the Windows preview, after you click a button it leaves a strange
> racetrack sort of line around the inside of the button. What is that? It
> stays there even after you leave the button.

This is how Windows shows button focus.

If you are concerned about your app's appearance on Windows (it sounds like
you are), you really should fine tune it on a Window system.  There is a
vast difference between the Mac and Windows appearances (especially OSX).
XP is also a bit different than the Windows versions that came before it.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-
E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com

___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: two questions about images

[Sarah Reichelt]

On 11 Feb 2004, at 6:13 am, Andrew wrote:

Hi everyone.  I have a couple of questions about images.  When 
importing an image ("as control"), how do you make sure that it goes 
to the data-bank place (what is that called?) so it can be accessed 
from every card, rather than just being imported to one card.
If I have a project that requires a lot of images, I make a sub-stack 
that stores them all. I "start using" the images stack and then can 
refer to any of the images by their ID numbers. However you can also 
just import them into any card of your main stack and then any object 
can reference then by ID number. It doesn't matter whether they are on 
the same card or not.

Cheers,
Sarah
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Silly question

[Sarah Reichelt]

I would guess that you have an openStack or more likely a preOpenStack 
handler in your mainStack that is trying to reference a card of the 
mainStack. When you start opening the substack, this handler gets 
triggered again (because it is in the message hierarchy) but it fails 
because that card does not exist in the substack.

The ways around this are either:
- check for the name of the stack in the mainStack's stack script 
before running any of the open/preOpen/close/preClose handlers
- put the ones that only apply to the mainStack in the first card's 
script instead
- put empty handlers in the substack's script to block the message 
passing.

Cheers,
Sarah
On 10 Feb 2004, at 6:18 pm, Ken Norris wrote:

Hi,

Why can't I open a substack?

open stack "Help 1 Con" -- name of the stack

.. from the message box returns "can't find card".

TIA,
Ken N.
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Windows appearance issues

[Roger . E . Eller]

> Yechhh!
> 
> I need to fix all this stuff so it looks good in Windows
> 
> How-to suggestions please.
> 
> Ken N.

Windows is very corporate (gray).  OS X is very artistic (colorful).  Mac 
OS 9 is somewhere in between. Therefore, the easiest way to get a 
semi-decent look is to use the built-in emulated Mac lookAndFeel.

set the lookAndFeel to "Macintosh"

If you require that all of your buttons, etc. look exactly the same on all 
platforms, you will have to make everything yourself using images. Chipp 
Walters' Button Gadget makes nice buttons. And I'm sure he could use 
another plasma TV.  :-)

Roger Eller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Windows appearance issues

[Ken Norris]

P.S.

Also, in the Windows preview, after you click a button it leaves a strange
racetrack sort of line around the inside of the button. What is that? It
stays there even after you leave the button. How do I get rid of it?

TIA,
Ken N.

___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Windows appearance issues

[Ken Norris]

Howdy,

This is the first app I've tried to build for Windows.

With normal settings, i.e., Mac appearance, everything looks great, the
buttons look good and hilite properly, etc.

I switched to Windows preview, and everything got really ugly. The Square
buttons went flat, all turned into the background color, the hilite comes
out dark purple, the name text doesn't turn white at hilite, can't tell a
default button from anything else, etc.

Yechhh!

I need to fix all this stuff so it looks good in Windows

How-to suggestions please.

Ken N.

___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Andy's comments and positioning...

[Robert Brenstein]

At 10:21 AM -0800 2/10/04, Judy Perry wrote:
I was going to ask about this very solution that Jeanne suggests:

How to do it?

Sorry if this is a dumb question...
Not at all.

There are various ways to do it, but here's one:

1. Create a stack with one button. In the button script, put the 
handlers that you would put in the Home stack if this were HC.

2. In the stack script, put
 on openStack
   if the name of button "My Button" \
  is not among the lines of the backscripts
   then insert the script of button "My Button" into back
 end openStack
3. Save the stack in the Plugins folder.

4. Choose Development menu > Plugins > Plugin Settings, choose your 
plugin from the menu at the top, then choose "Revolution starts up" 
and "invisible". (For this kind of plugin, you don't need to choose 
any messages to send.)
--
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.jaedworks.com
What is the advantage of inserting backscript as opposed to just 
start using? Aside of course from the difference that I can insert 
script of any object as a backscript.

Robert
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Silly question no so silly anymore

[Ken Norris]

Thanks Alex,

> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 11:57:09 -0700
> From: Alex Rice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Silly question no so silly anymore
 
> Ken, could it be the stack is opening but is visible = false. This can
> happen if you have a stack hidden, then save the mainstack. Try this.
> Specifying the main stack is not necessary:
> 
> go stack "Help 1 Con"
> show stack "Help 1 Con"

None of the above, but I did solve the mystery.

Turned out to be a missed space from an earlier name change, very hard to
see. Everything works as expected now.

Whew!
Ken N.



___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: search fields (as in Finder, Safari, iTunes)

[Scott Rossi]

Recently, "Toma Tasovac"  wrote:

> Can we make custom-shaped text fields in Rev?

No.

> I would like to have a
> search field that looks like the OS X search field in Finder, google
> field in Safari etc., i.e. a field which is semicircular at both ends.
> Clicking on this kind field should focus on its entire border, i.e. the
> blue line should go around the entire field.

You would have to create an image of a rounded field border and place your
actual field on top of the image (make the field transparent).  If you want
a focus border to also have rounded corners, you need to create your own
rounded hilite image to act as the focus border, and script its behavior.
It's a bit of work but very doable.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-
E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com

___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: two questions about images

[Scott Rossi]

Recently, "Andrew"  wrote:

> Hi everyone.  I have a couple of questions about images.  When
> importing an image ("as control"), how do you make sure that it goes to
> the data-bank place (what is that called?) so it can be accessed from
> every card, rather than just being imported to one card.

Group the image (yes, you can have a group of 1 object) and set its
backgroundBehavior (Behave like a background) to true.  Any new cards
created after this point will automatically have the grouped image applied.
To add the grouped image to existing cards that don't already have the image
present, go to each of these cards and select "Place Group > xyz" from the
Object menu.


> Also, say I have one image and another image on top of it.  The top
> image is a non-square image, like a person.  However, when imported,
> there is white all around the person to fill out the square, and you
> can tell since it's sitting on top of the back image.  How do I tell
> Revolution that I want the white part to be transparent?

The best way is to create your transparency in whatever paint editor you
have.  GIF and PNG are the two image formats that Rev supports with
transparency.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-
E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com

___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

search fields (as in Finder, Safari, iTunes)

[Toma Tasovac]

Can we make custom-shaped text fields in Rev?  I would like to have a 
search field that looks like the OS X search field in Finder, google 
field in Safari etc., i.e. a field which is semicircular at both ends.  
Clicking on this kind field should focus on its entire border, i.e. the 
blue line should go around the entire field.

All best,
Toma 

___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: DragDrop a ".textClipping"?

[Barry Levine]

Jeanne,

Thanks for the info. Dropping a clipping produces the contents of the 
clipping rather than the path when using "put the dragData". So I 
changed that line of code to: put the dragData["files"] and that 
yielded the path.

Are there others who have managed to drag & drop files of types that 
are not normally supported in Rev? I'm thinking of pdf in particular 
but any other types are of interest, as well. If you have, perhaps you 
can point to an example that shows how to do this?

Thanks very much,
Barry
On Feb 10, 2004, at 12:41 AM, jeanne wrote:

Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 19:10:52 -0800
From: "Jeanne A. E. DeVoto" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: DragDrop a ".textClipping"?
At 7:40 PM -0700 2/9/04, Barry Levine wrote:
Anyone have an idea how to "drag&drop" a textClipping into a Rev
stack? I've been playing with Klaus Major's example (Thank you,
Klaus!) and have seen how jpg, txt, rtf, etc. can be dropped into
the appropriate field or image. The text clipping seems to be
ignored. Any guidance will be appreciated.
It looks like the text in a text clipping is stored in a resource, so
you'll need to use the getResource function to pull it out.
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?

[Marty Billingsley]

> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Frank wrote
> >>
> This isn't an either or proposition.  Adding support
> for "x = 1" would have no impact on the RR IDE. It would have no impact
> on your ability to use "put 1 into x" all you want.  It would have no
> impact on you, or anyone else using RR today.  But it would make my
> life easier.  And, I believe, it would make RR an easier sell into
> organizations staffed by professional programmers and
> computer-scientists.
> <<
>
> Whilst I (mostly) would not use the c-like syntax, if it can be added
> without causing confusion, then I think you are right that it would help
> to provide a familiar 'handle' to those used to the c-like languages.

This got me thinking that Rev would be a *great* tool for moving
students *into* the c/c++/java environment.  My 8th graders understand
 set the visible of button "x" to false
   and
 set the label of button "x" to "whatever"

When they get to high school and prepping for the AP exam, which
is now in java, it would be really nice to be able to equate the
above statements with:
 x.visible = false
   and
 x.label = "whatever"
(may not have the syntax exactly right, but you know what I mean)

This would be a gentle introduction to a confusing syntax (okay,
confusing to those seeing it for the first time :-).  I'm always
looking for ways to spend less time on syntax and more time on
the bigger picture (how to design good programs, etc.).

One more way in which Rev could be a great tool in the education
environment!

  - marty

--
Marty Billingsley ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
The University of Chicago Laboratory Schools

"We are our choices"
   - Sartre

___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

two questions about images

[Andrew]

Hi everyone.  I have a couple of questions about images.  When 
importing an image ("as control"), how do you make sure that it goes to 
the data-bank place (what is that called?) so it can be accessed from 
every card, rather than just being imported to one card.

Also, say I have one image and another image on top of it.  The top 
image is a non-square image, like a person.  However, when imported, 
there is white all around the person to fill out the square, and you 
can tell since it's sitting on top of the back image.  How do I tell 
Revolution that I want the white part to be transparent?

Thanks so much!

___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Andy's comments and positioning...

[Marty Billingsley]

> On Mon, 9 Feb 2004, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:
>
> > I'd use plugins for this. You can load a plugin automatically on
> > startup and have its openStack script put the stack script in use -
> > that's what I'd do.

Judy writes:
> I was going to ask about this very solution that Jeanne suggests:
>
> How to do it?
>
> Sorry if this is a dumb question...

Me too.  How do I do it?

  - marty

--
Marty Billingsley ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
The University of Chicago Laboratory Schools

"We are our choices"
   - Sartre
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Andy's comments and positioning...

[Jeanne A. E. DeVoto]

At 10:21 AM -0800 2/10/04, Judy Perry wrote:
I was going to ask about this very solution that Jeanne suggests:

How to do it?

Sorry if this is a dumb question...
Not at all.

There are various ways to do it, but here's one:

1. Create a stack with one button. In the button script, put the 
handlers that you would put in the Home stack if this were HC.

2. In the stack script, put
 on openStack
   if the name of button "My Button" \
  is not among the lines of the backscripts
   then insert the script of button "My Button" into back
 end openStack
3. Save the stack in the Plugins folder.

4. Choose Development menu > Plugins > Plugin Settings, choose your 
plugin from the menu at the top, then choose "Revolution starts up" 
and "invisible". (For this kind of plugin, you don't need to choose 
any messages to send.)
--
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.jaedworks.com
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Silly question no so silly anymore

[Rob Cozens]

...returns "No such card" when run from the msg box, does nothing from
openStack, nor even preOpenStack handler in the main stack.
I don't understand. Why doesn't it work? IIRC it used to work. The only
possible way to open the substack so far is from the Application Browser.
Hi Ken,

I started a response to this the other day; but trashed it because I 
can't, for the life of me, remember the exact details.

The problem was the same.  It seemed to me in my case I found the 
stack I thought was the topStack was in fact not, so handler 
references to a card were not resolvable.

Maybe I corrected the problem by referencing the card by its long name??
--
Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm
"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."
from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Silly question no so silly anymore

[J. Landman Gay]

On 2/10/04 12:45 PM, Ken Norris wrote:

open stack "Help 1 Con" of stack "Anchor-HH"

...returns "No such card" when run from the msg box, does nothing from
openStack, nor even preOpenStack handler in the main stack.
There's nothing wrong with the syntax. This is often due to a typo -- 
often involving invisible characters in the name. Extra spaces, 
accidental returns at the end of a name, etc. Try copying the name out 
of the inspector and see what you get.

If that isn't the problem, check to make sure that the stack isn't 
invisible. Use "show stack 'Help 1 Con'" to see if it appears.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?

[Dar Scott]

On Tuesday, February 10, 2004, at 10:20 AM, Frank Leahy wrote:

BUT...I wish xTalk had some ADDITIONAL constructs that made it more 
accessible to computer scientists and professional programmers.  Both 
because without them xTalk look amateurish, and therefore less likely 
to be used by professionals, and because it would make it 
significantly easier to port code from other languages to xTalk.
In my mind I am not separating xTalk from Transcript from Revolution.  
What is more important to me is a clean, bug-free, complete 
implementation.  It is a toy implementation that makes something look 
amateurish.  RunRev has always had a commitment to fixing bugs and 
recently has been able to increase resources to that end.  That is what 
removes the amateurish look.

The amateurish look can show up anywhere.  I recently worked with Java 
and was surprised that writeln to a tcp link would push twice, once for 
the text and once for the crlf.  That is amateurish and it has nothing 
to do with the syntax.  This is not a bug as far as I know, but it is a 
tiny performance hit and a pain in debugging.

(I wonder.  Would Scheme or Haskell or Modula or other languages look 
amateurish?)

Dar Scott



___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?

[revolution]

Frank wrote
>>
This isn't an either or proposition.  Adding support 
for "x = 1" would have no impact on the RR IDE. It would have no impact 
on your ability to use "put 1 into x" all you want.  It would have no 
impact on you, or anyone else using RR today.  But it would make my 
life easier.  And, I believe, it would make RR an easier sell into 
organizations staffed by professional programmers and 
computer-scientists.

Thanks for listening.
<<

Thanks for bringing up this idea.  Rev is one of the most enjoyable forms 
of programming I have done in 20 years, but I appreciate you bringing up 
these suggestions.  It has been an interesting discussion.

Whilst I (mostly) would not use the c-like syntax, if it can be added 
without causing confusion, then I think you are right that it would help 
to provide a familiar 'handle' to those used to the c-like languages.

If Rev is always aimed at being accessible to beginning programmers as a 
foundational principle, I think it is going to be regarded as 
un-professional by IT departments.

One thing I liked in a competing product I looked at a few years ago (I 
can't remember the name now) was that the menu of the IDE had an option 
for selecting the complexity of the view - something like 'simple', 
'detailed', 'advanced'.  As it started up in 'simple' mode, it was very 
easy to get an initial overview without being overwhelmed.  Once I had 
grasped the essence of what it could do, I could change the complexity of 
the IDE to increase my understanding - moving up the complexity levels 
revealed its power.  I think if Metacard had had this facility 5 years 
ago, I would have used it 4 years earlier :-)

Whenever one is learning a powerful and complex new environment, I think 
it is advantageous to be able to start it in 'simple mode', and let the 
user switch to the level that they feel comfortable with.  Professionals 
could start it up, select 'advanced' to see a complex environment.  Maybe 
the docs could also be sensitive to the complexity level and provide 
c-syntax. 

Just my 2pence

Bernard.
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: version control system (was mission critical apps)

[revolution]

Wouter wrote
>>
How is this version control supposed to work?
If an xml file is used to store the "ripped" stack then opening the 
stack files
directly for a binary read and storing it in a custom properties could 
also be an option?
<<

I'm sorry Wouter, but I don't understand your question.  Could you 
elaborate?

My idea is that all the components of a stack would be converted to XML so 
that e.g. grepping/formatting/XML tools could be used to edit/manipulate 
the components outside of Rev.  Moreover, the components should be able to 
be selectively re-applied from the VCS e.g. you could go to the VCS and 
browse to a version of a stack from last week, find the component, and 
revert to the code for that component.

Indeed, as more and more data sources are exposing XML interfaces, I'm as 
interested in the principle of being to generate stacks from XML as I am 
in saving stacks as XML. 

Bernard
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?

[Frank Leahy]

Not supporting these standard statements make the language look a
bit "beginner-ish"
Frank, et al:

Is there something inherently inferior about a programming
environment that can be used productively by someone who doesn't have
a degree in computer science?
Do professional developers feel threatened by the concept of business
people writing custom software to drive their business without
employing a programmer to assist or do the job for them?
Rob,

I was writing system software at Apple -- every time you use pop up, 
color, or hierarchical menu on the Mac you can thank me -- when 
HyperCard was developed, and I knew both Bill Atkinson (invented 
HyperCard) and Dan Winkler (invented HyperTalk).

I wrote one of the first large-scale end-user applications in HyperCard 
-- see http://www.artstacks.com/ -- which is still used by over 300 
high-end art galleries around the world.

There is nothing inferior about a programming language or a development 
environment that makes it easier for non-computer scientists to program.

I have no problem with people using RR for any project they want to 
create.  The more the merrier.

I love that xTalk makes RR accessible to the masses.

BUT...I wish xTalk had some ADDITIONAL constructs that made it more 
accessible to computer scientists and professional programmers.  Both 
because without them xTalk look amateurish, and therefore less likely 
to be used by professionals, and because it would make it significantly 
easier to port code from other languages to xTalk.

It's that simple.  This isn't an either or proposition.  Adding support 
for "x = 1" would have no impact on the RR IDE. It would have no impact 
on your ability to use "put 1 into x" all you want.  It would have no 
impact on you, or anyone else using RR today.  But it would make my 
life easier.  And, I believe, it would make RR an easier sell into 
organizations staffed by professional programmers and 
computer-scientists.

Thanks for listening.

-- Frank

___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Rev 1.1.1 can'd find Windows engine????

[Marian Petrides]

That did the trick. Thanks, Jan.

On Feb 10, 2004, at 11:33 AM, Jan Schenkel wrote:

--- Marian Petrides <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
HEPP!   I am trying to build a Windows
distribution of a stack
created in Mac OS X version of Rev 1.1.1.  I
previously downloaded the
windows engine but apparently Rev can't find it.
When Rev tries to
download it, the download proceeds to almost the
end and then
generates a download error.
How do I get the Windows engine for Rev 1.1.1?   Why
doesn't Rev
recognize the previously downloaded engine?  Am I
going to have to
build the distribution on a Windows machine--or will
that even work??
Thanks.

Marian
(I've gotten this to work in the past but don't know
what I am doing
wrong now.)
Hi Marian,

You can download the Revolution 1.1.1 engines from the
following location :

Download+decompress them and toss them into the
components/engines/ subfolder of your Revolution
folder.
Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Manipulating Old Dates

[Mark Wieder]

Ray-

Julian dates aren't all that hard to deal with - here are a couple of
functions I use for getting back and forth. If memory serves, julian
dates are useful back to 4716 BC, as long as you don't mind some
weirdness around 1582 AD when they switched calendar formats.

constant kDaysInYear = 365.25
constant kGregJD = 2299161

-- convert a  MM DD to julian date
-- curtime is in "long time" format: HH:MM:SS
function GetJulian year, month, day, curtime
   local JulianDate
   local extra
   local uhr, umin, usec

   set the itemDelimiter to ":"
   put word 1 of curtime into uhr
   put word 2 of curtime into umin
   put word 3 of curtime into usec

   put 100 * year + month - 190002.5 into extra
   put 367 * year into JulianDate
   subtract trunc(7.0 * (year + trunc((month + 9) / 12)) / 4) from JulianDate
   add trunc(275 * month / 9 ) to JulianDate
   add day to JulianDate
   add (uhr + (umin + usec / 60) / 60) / 24 to JulianDate
   add 1721013.5 to JulianDate
   subtract .5 * extra / abs(extra) from JulianDate
   add .5 to JulianDate

   return JulianDate
end GetJulian

-- convert a julian date to .mm.dd.hh.mm.ss format
function FromJulian julian
   local tmp
   local dayt, month, year
   local uhr, umin, usec
   local a, b, c, d, e, f
   local jd

   put julian + .5 into jd
   put trunc(jd) into z
   put jd - z into f

   if (z >= kGregJD) then
 put trunc((z - 1867216.25)/36524.25) into tmp
 put z + 1 + tmp - trunc(tmp/4) into a
   else
 put z into a
   end if

   put a + 1524 into b
   put trunc((b - 122.1) / kDaysInYear) into c
   put trunc(kDaysInYear * c) into d
   put trunc((b - d) / 30.6001) into e

   put b - d - trunc(30.6001 * e) + f into dayt
   put trunc(dayt) into field "txtTempJulian1"

   if (e < 13.5) then
 put e-1 into month
   else
 put e-13 into month
   end if

   if (month > 2.5) then
 put c - 4716 into year
   else
 put c - 4715 into year
   end if

   put trunc(24 * (dayt - trunc(dayt))) into uhr
   put trunc(1440 * (dayt - trunc(dayt) - uhr/24)) into umin
   put 86400 * (dayt - trunc(dayt) - uhr/24 - umin/1440) into usec

   return year & "." & month & "." & trunc(dayt) & "." & uhr & "." &
   umin & "." & usec
   
end FromJulian

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: version control system (was mission critical apps)

[Wouter]

On 10 Feb 2004, at 16:03, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Message: 11
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 14:59:28 +
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: version control system (was mission critical apps)
To: How to use Revolution <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID:
	
	
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"




snip


As there was no interest in it, I was going to see how far I could go  
with
this myself.  Geoff's stack is extremely buggy with regard to Rev - I  
only
got a license to Metacard last week so that I could try MCRipper in  
that
and see if it performed better there.

It is as buggy in mc.

How is this version control supposed to work?
If an xml file is used to store the "ripped" stack then opening the  
stack files
directly for a binary read and storing it in a custom properties could  
also be an option?

Greetings,
WA
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Rev 1.1.1 can'd find Windows engine????

[Jan Schenkel]

--- Marian Petrides <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > HEPP!   I am trying to build a Windows
> distribution of a stack 
> > created in Mac OS X version of Rev 1.1.1.  I
> previously downloaded the 
> > windows engine but apparently Rev can't find it. 
> When Rev tries to 
> > download it, the download proceeds to almost the
> end and then 
> > generates a download error.
> 
> How do I get the Windows engine for Rev 1.1.1?   Why
> doesn't Rev 
> recognize the previously downloaded engine?  Am I
> going to have to 
> build the distribution on a Windows machine--or will
> that even work??
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Marian
> (I've gotten this to work in the past but don't know
> what I am doing 
> wrong now.)
> 

Hi Marian,

You can download the Revolution 1.1.1 engines from the
following location :


Download+decompress them and toss them into the
components/engines/ subfolder of your Revolution
folder.

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La 
Rochefoucauld)

__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Array question again.

[Jan Schenkel]

--- Kevin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> 
> Can anyone point me to a document discussing the
> underpinnings of the Transcript interpreter?  Maybe
> it is just me but I am unable to locate this
> information in the help included with the product. 
> In fact many advanced topics are missing.
> 
> Topics I am looking for: 
> 
> Memory Management
> Force garbage collection 
> Marking for collection 
> Collection algorithms
> 
> What threading type is used
> token
> indirect
> direct
> 
> API's related to multithreading and/or
> multiprocessing
> mutex
> semaphores
> etc.
> 
> Kevin
> 

Kevin,

With Revolution you don't have to worry about garbage
collection ; temporary variables are released at the
end of the handler in which you use them,
script-locals and global variables stay until you
'delete' them or quit.

Revolution doesn't have a multi-threading architecture
in the traditional sense : you can 'send  to
 in ' and those messages are then
scheduled into a queue and handled at idle time as
soon as possible after their trigger time.

Some commands (the socket commands in particular) can
be used with a 'callback' parameter, allowing your
application to handle other events while you're
waiting for the command to complete ; once completed,
the engine will call your callback handler so you can
act consequently.

For more information regarding 'send', I recommend Dar
Scott's excellent primer on message mechanics, which
you can find at the following location :


Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La 
Rochefoucauld)

__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?

[jbv]

Rob Cozens a *crit :

> Is there something inherently inferior about a programming
> environment that can be used productively by someone who doesn't have
> a degree in computer science?
>
> Do professional developers feel threatened by the concept of business
> people writing custom software to drive their business without
> employing a programmer to assist or do the job for them?
>
> As a professional with 30 years in the field, I am IMPRESSED that
> people like local MUG HyperCard SIG member, Carl Chaney, could write
> functional work order processing, invoicing, & tax reconciliation
> software for his laser engraving business and a point of sale system
> for his daughter's ice cream parlor in HyperTalk without taking one
> programming course and without even any experience using a
> spreadsheet.  Sure his work looked "beginner-ish"; BUT IT DID THE JOB
> HE WANTED DONE.
>
> Does the fact that Carl Chaney could do that in X-Talk, does that
> mean, a priori, that X-Talk is an inferior development environment?

Well, although these are serious questions raising interesting problems,
IMHO
they don't fully cover the topic...

No doubt that HC (and especially the Xtalk syntax) was developped by
Apple
in the same "plug & play" and "user friendly" spirit as the Macintosh.
But having a prog. tool allowing to code in a syntax closed to natural
english
doesn't prevent to learn such concepts as variables (local vs global),
loops,
arrays, functions, handlers, sending messages, passing parameters, etc.
All of those being typical computer science concept. The fact that X-talk

syntax is far less cryptic than C syntax helps a lot in learning those
concepts,
especially because one can focus on the concepts themselves without being

bothered by any cryptic syntax.
But OTOH I've seen several custom projects developped with HC or OMO
by non professional programmers : although these projects did (more or
less)
their work, they were totally awfull from a prof. point of view, mostly
because
it was clear that the above mentioned basic concepts hadn't been totally
understood
by the ppl who developped them, and often they had made choices and
written
code that was totally ridiculous, slow, uselessly complicated...
And if any of these projects had to be maintained or extended by someone
else,
the task was almost impossible, and it would be easier & cheaper to
re-write
everything from scratch.

So the question is rather : to which degree of complexity can a project
be
developped in X-talk by someone without serious computer science bkground
?
To which degree the X-talk syntax isn't only a way to improve
productivity of
ppl with serious computer science knowledge, by allowing them to reach a
greater complexity in their projects in less time and with less lines of
code than,
say, C or Java ?

JB


___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Array question again.

[Jan Schenkel]

--- Kevin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> 
> My question is regarding the underpinnings more than
> anything else.  If I put empty into a[0] is a[0,1]
> a[0,2] ... also garb rage collected or must I set
> each individual element equal to empty to ensure
> collection?
> 

Hi Kevin,

You'll have to clear out the individual elements ; if
you want to ensure garbage collection, use the
'delete' command instead of 'put empty into'
Example :
--
  delete local tLocalArray[0,1]
  global gGlobalArray
  delete global gGlobalArray[5,6]
--

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La 
Rochefoucauld)

__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Array question again.

[Kevin]

My question is regarding the underpinnings more than anything else.  If I put empty 
into a[0] is a[0,1] a[0,2] ... also garb rage collected or must I set each individual 
element equal to empty to ensure collection?



___
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?

[Rob Cozens]

Having "put" as the sole assignment syntax means, IMHO, that people 
looking at RR think it's more like HyperCard than less like HyperCard
Frank, et al:

My apologies if this is a repost.  I originally sent it at 9 AM 
yesterday, and if it appeared on the list, I missed it:


Not supporting these standard statements make the language look a 
bit "beginner-ish"
Frank, et al:

Is there something inherently inferior about a programming 
environment that can be used productively by someone who doesn't have 
a degree in computer science?

Do professional developers feel threatened by the concept of business 
people writing custom software to drive their business without 
employing a programmer to assist or do the job for them?

As a professional with 30 years in the field, I am IMPRESSED that 
people like local MUG HyperCard SIG member, Carl Chaney, could write 
functional work order processing, invoicing, & tax reconciliation 
software for his laser engraving business and a point of sale system 
for his daughter's ice cream parlor in HyperTalk without taking one 
programming course and without even any experience using a 
spreadsheet.  Sure his work looked "beginner-ish"; BUT IT DID THE JOB 
HE WANTED DONE.

Does the fact that Carl Chaney could do that in X-Talk, does that 
mean, a priori, that X-Talk is an inferior development environment?

If programming were illustration and program languages were boxes of 
crayons, my analogy would be:

Give a room full of ordinary people X-Talk crayons, and everyone of 
them will create an illustration.  A ten year old's illustration may 
look less polished than an adult's, which in turn may look less 
polished than a professional illustrator's; but everyone can produce 
something meaningful to them.

Give a room full of ordinary people C crayons, and most won't be able 
to draw a single line.

Which environment is truly "beginner-ish" in terms of software 
development evolution?
--

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm
"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."
from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?

[Rob Cozens]

 Who wants Rev to be as user-friendly as C?
I'm afraid that's impossible, Judy:  one would have to--

* "dumb down" the Rev Dev UI,

* completely rewrite Transcript to make the syntax as succinct as possible

* "power down" the syntax so it takes half a page of code to 
accomplish what could previously be done in one line

* add support for line end characters (eg: ";") which completely 
change the meaning of a statement when appended to it.

* place programmer's premium on how complicated a command can be 
produced in a minimal token string, preferably incorporating the line 
end character mentioned above & other "C cleverness" to impress one's 
colleagues with the ultimate undecipherable, cryptic statement.

:{`)
--
Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm
"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."
from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: mission critical apps

[Rob Cozens]

I think Alex's positioning of Rev is fair but in my view not in any 
respect damaging. Let me put this another way. You could be a 
programmer in a huge enterprise or in a small business, possibly 
your own. Where have you chosen to work? Then choose the right tool 
for what you are doing and don't fret over what you are not doing.
Well put, David.
--
Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm
"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."
from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: version control system (was mission critical apps)

[revolution]

Alex wrote:
>>
If one were using a filesystem representation, then it's probably an 
external requirement (i.e. not self-imposed) because the connected VC 
system uses a filesystem. A VC being for example Subversion, the newer 
CVS like system. Most VC systems are based on files and filesystems.

But in a 100% transcript model then you could throw out the filesystem 
representation then I'm sure background groups would be easier to deal 
with.
<<

I think the means to produce this version control system are actually 
within RunRev's grasp - they just don't see it yet :-)  I think there is 
quite widespread agreement on the list that it would be a significant step 
forward for Rev if there was a versioning system.

Geoff Canyon produced a stack called MCRipper that will take a metacard 
stack and convert it into an XML representation of the stack.  This 
representation could be submitted to a version control system.  Once 
inside the VCS, searches could be made on the stack (for example, running 
diff on different versions of the XML-representation of the stack). 
Indeed, one could take this even further and modify the stack as XML, and 
then re-convert ("rip" in Geoff's terms) it back into a stack. (I know 
that there is some kind of hash takes place with the length of a script, 
but that too could be implemented by them.)

I suggested this in July last year, and Alex and I had a brief interchange 
about it.

As there was no interest in it, I was going to see how far I could go with 
this myself.  Geoff's stack is extremely buggy with regard to Rev - I only 
got a license to Metacard last week so that I could try MCRipper in that 
and see if it performed better there. 

The VCS server does not even have to work on the file system model.  It 
could even be written in Rev, and could use sockets to communicate with 
the IDE.  (The file system model is really just a persistent storage that 
fits in with an application development model where code is written in 
editors and stored as text files in a directory - one reason why the 
HyperCard model was so advanced!)  If Rev could persist the versioning to 
stacks, then it is something that could (in principal) be opened up for 
developers to include versioning of data in their own apps i.e. to enable 
users to go back to previous versions of their work saved within the 
stack.

It looks to me that the absence of any ability to use Rev with a VCS is 
going to be an obstacle to it being taken seriously inside any IT 
department of a company.  (This makes me conclude that Pierre Sahores must 
be a man with great persuasive power)

As my main project for the last twelve months has not involved Rev, I've 
just left this issue on a back burner.  But I'm glad to see it come up on 
the list again.
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

inactive (?) sheets, buttons not responding

[Toma Tasovac]

I haven't noticed this before, so I am not sure what's going on: I have 
a stack which opens as sheet and has two buttons on it.  Clicking on a 
button does not produce any effect unless one first clicks on the card 
itself, or unless one clicks on the button twice... i.e. the sheet does 
not seem to be active.  Any ideas?

All best,
Toma
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: mission critical apps

[Pierre Sahores]

Le 10 févr. 04, à 01:00, Richard Gaskin a écrit :

Brian Yennie wrote:

I have no idea how I would function on a team xTalk project. Previous
threads here have discussed CVS, bug tracking, group projects... and 
as
far as I can tell all of those things are non-existent. They all make
my life many times easier when working in PHP or C, or a host of other
languages.
Rev objects can be atomized down to individual properties and scripts, 
and
reassembled again in nearly infinite variety.

What specifically is needed, and what are the challenges of building 
it?
Probablly that, aside using CVS, a possible way could be to clone the 
Java's EJB2 design patterns logic to get it available to build 
"Entreprise-Revolution-Beans" atomic pieces of transcript code.
--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://www.FourthWorld.com
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:   +33 1 41 60 52 68
Dom:   +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:   +33 1 64 45 05 33
Inspection académique de Seine-Saint-Denis
Applications et SGBD ACID SQL (WEB et PGI)
Penser et produire "delta de productivité"
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Silly question

[xbury . cs]

open stack "child" of stack "parent"

assuming there is a stack child, it should work.

-=-
Xavier Bury
Clearstream Services
TNS NT LAN Server
ext 36465
Voice: +352 4656 43 6465
Fax: +352 4656 493 6465




Ken Norris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
10/02/04 09:30
Please respond to How to use Revolution

 
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc: 
Subject:Re: Silly question

.


OOPS,

> ... from the message box returns "can't find card".

should be "No such card."

Ken N.

___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com
  
IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream International does 
not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be legally 
privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the intended 
recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be 
taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in 
this e-mail are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically 
states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of its affiliates 
or subsidiaries.

END OF DISCLAIMER
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: command-2 (previous) and command-3 (next), jumping by 2

[Jeanne A. E. DeVoto]

At 9:13 PM -0600 2/9/04, Christopher Mitchell wrote:
On Feb 9, 2004, at 7:41 AM, Robert Brenstein wrote:

On Feb 7, 2004, at 12:22 PM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:

Increasing the delay might work, as a workaround.
cmd-3 etc used to be in a frontscript of IDE (commandkeydown 
handler if I recall). I haven't looked at the current 
implementation in Rev but probably it is still the same. My guess 
is that there is a glitch and the front script handler is called 
twice but the issue may be elsewhere. This should be easy to verify 
by replacing the current frontscript with a debug version.

Could you point the way to this script for someone who couldn't 
transcript his way out of a wet paper bag (yet)?  I've certainly not 
looked into making editions in the IDE scripts, but if someone else 
debugs this and can kick back a recipe I have no problem following 
the directions.
I'm not seeing a commandKeyDown handler in any of the IDE's frontscripts.

You can increase the delay and see whether that helps by doing this:

1. In the message box, type
 edit script of menu "View"
2. In the script, look for the line
case "Go Prev"
(It's about a fifth of the way down.) The next line contains an 
expression that ends in "< 20". Replace the 20 with a larger number 
(try 50).

3. The next case is "Go Next". The line after this contains a similar 
expression; replace the number 20 with a larger number, as above.

4. Click Apply, then close the script.

5. In the message box, type
  save stack "revmenubar.rev"
(Of course, it's a good idea to copy your Rev folder and work on a 
copy, in case something goes wrong - it will save you from having to 
re-download if that happens.)
--
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.jaedworks.com
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: version control system

[Brian Yennie]

Q: Does anyone here have the resources and know-how to provide a simple 
CVS pserver with an empty repository?

If so, I might be inclined to get the ball rolling in Rev's finest 
manner: prototyping =).

- Brian

___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: version control system

[Brian Yennie]

If one were using a filesystem representation, then it's probably an 
external requirement (i.e. not self-imposed) because the connected VC 
system uses a filesystem. A VC being for example Subversion, the newer 
CVS like system. Most VC systems are based on files and filesystems.
Yep.

But in a 100% transcript model then you could throw out the filesystem 
representation then I'm sure background groups would be easier to deal 
with.
FWIW, I don't see background groups as such a big deal.
For example, you could:
1) Stick them under the "stack" folder.
2) Store as a property all of the cards they belong to (for regular 
groups, just 1 card)
3) Whenever someone asks to check out a card, expand the underlying 
CVS/Subversion command to also check-out the groups on that card.

Ditto for the objects in the group.

Granted, it doesn't make for a very nice _looking_ filesystem 
representation, but I assume you would never see any of this since a 
Rev GUI would sit on top of it.

- Brian

___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: mission critical apps

[Brian Yennie]

For the most part, this is _the_ icky part about version control.

When it comes to CVS, it will attempt to merge their changes, using 
some sort of line-by-line analysis of their code. If they each 
manipulated different functions, for example, they are in the clear. If 
their changes overlap, they end up having to reconcile, they curse each 
other out, and learn to do a better job of checkin / checkout. There 
are a bunch of options in different systems, but in the end none of 
them replace good project management, and nothing can do a magical 
merge.

Your system worked down to an object/script level might not be all that 
far away from rudimentary CVS.

99% of VC is more intimidating than complicated, IMO.

If nothing else, if one of the goals here (which I'm on the fence 
about, actually) is to win over the enterprise / "professional" market, 
adding a per-object / per-script versioning tool natively into the IDE 
might impress a few people.

Is there any RAD tool out there that does version control now???

- Brian

For a VC system, I'm unclear on whether you allow multiple people to 
edit
the same object at the same time.  If yes, how do you account for the
revisions being posted for the same object by different developers?  
If Judy
and John want to check out/edit the script of btn A, and both provide
*different* script options, how do you determine the version for each 
edit,
especially if the scripts are then re-edited later?  What would the 
desired
behavior be here?
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Silly question

[Ken Norris]

OOPS,

> ... from the message box returns "can't find card".

should be "No such card."

Ken N.

___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Silly question

[Ken Norris]

Hi,

Why can't I open a substack?

open stack "Help 1 Con" -- name of the stack

... from the message box returns "can't find card".

TIA,
Ken N.


___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

MidiBuilder

[erik hansen]

hello Kurt,

i am just getting into MIDIBuilder!
works beautifully on a G4 osx QT 6.x setup.
the first xTalk generated tones in a few years.

gMeventLen has me intrigued.
i am going to have to write a translation
from the old HyperText method of showing
time, 60q 61e etc. to your approach in order
to play my things.

is there a rationale behind the way you
represent duration?

Erik Hansen

=
[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.erikhansen.org

__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: OS X Standalone Prog Folder Problem?

[Peter Reid]

Hi Rob

Thanks for the tip, that's sorted the problem!  I've now put this 
together into a single handler that returns both the program path and 
the application name:

on getProgPath @thePath, @theFileName
  set the itemDelimiter to "."
  put (the platform is "MacOS" and item 1 of the systemVersion >= 10) 
into itsOSX
  put the filename of this stack into thePath
  set itemDelimiter to "/"
  if "Mac" is in the platform and itsOSX and \
the environment is not "development" then
delete item -3 to -1 of thePath
  end if
  put last item of thePath into theFileName
  delete last item of thePath
  put "/" after thePath
end getProgPath

Just in case anyone else has the same problem and wants a "potted" solution!

I'm using Rev 2.1.2 under Mac OS X 10.3.2 to build an app.  If I 
run the app inside the development environment, or as a standalone 
Classic app, then it works fine.  However, if I run the OS X app 
built at the same time, then it fails to locate the support folder 
and files in the same folder as the app.
Hi Peter,

Welcome to the wonderful world of Mac OS X application bundles.

Control click on your OS X stabdalone + select "Package Contents" 
reveals a folder, "Contents"

Inside "Contents" are:
Info.plist
pbdevelopment.plist
Pkginfo
A folder, "Resources", containing--
Revolution.rsrc
RevolutionDoc.icns
Revolution.icons
A folder, "Mac OS", containing--
Revolution [your standalone]
So if your standalone on other platforms expects to find the support 
folder in the same folder in which the standalone resides, your 
folder must be in the Mac OS folder on OS X.

I deal with this by using a generalized search handler that looks 
for support folders in both locations...among others.
--

Rob Cozens
--
Peter Reid
Reid-IT Limited, Loughborough, Leics., UK
Tel: +44 (0)1509 268843 Fax: +44 (0)8700 527576
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: http://www.reidit.co.uk
 http://www.reidit.demon.co.uk
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: mission critical apps

[Scott Rossi]

> If there were a version-control plugin for runrevI would surely be a
> customer!

I have a simple model I developed for managing stack files on a server.  It
could probably be extended to manage items down to the object/script level.
But my solution is exclusive to one user at a time: stacks are marked as
either "available" (checked in) or they're not (checked out).

For a VC system, I'm unclear on whether you allow multiple people to edit
the same object at the same time.  If yes, how do you account for the
revisions being posted for the same object by different developers?  If Judy
and John want to check out/edit the script of btn A, and both provide
*different* script options, how do you determine the version for each edit,
especially if the scripts are then re-edited later?  What would the desired
behavior be here?

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Development & Design
-
E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com

___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution