RE: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]

[Nitesh Naveen]

I agree with Craig here...
He is quiet right about the mailing problem...
I had been using my company id and have been told by them to unsubscribe
from the due to the volume of messages coming in.
Despite the volume if the mails had something to defend I could've done it.
But the never ending flow of OTs like these which are of no use to anyone is
not quiet the way anyone would like!

Friday of the week is over... At least from this point on let us cut this
off.


Regards,
 
Nitesh
_

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-Original Message-
From: Craig McClanahan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 4:04 AM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Fired was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]


On 7/8/05, James Mitchell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Andrew, you must be new here.  See, on Fridays (usually), we like to 
> cut up and have a little fun.  I think I've donated enough blood on 
> this list to deserve a break every now and then.

And perhaps its time to reign in the freedom to cut up a little on Fridays.
With freedom comes responsibility, and there's been way too many abuses of
that freedom lately (including this thread).

> If you don't like wasting time with [OT] posts, filter them.  Every 
> decent mail client will allow you to do that.

Note that filtering is not a complete answer.  Consider a scenario where you
are subscribed to a list like this from your company email address, where
you have (explicitly or implicitly) agreed to whatever terms of use your
company's IT department imposes on you.  In more than a few companies,
incoming email messages are scanned for inappropriate content -- and you
could be violating the policies even if you have a personal filter set up so
that *you* don't have to read the messages.  "But I didn't read it" isn't
going to be a very useful defense -- any more than if your mom caught you
reading Playboy when growing up, and you tried "but I didn't look at the
pictures, I was only reading the articles!"

I'd like to point you at a blog written recently by an industry colleague,
who has been observing what's going on here:
http://www.groundside.com/blog/content/DuncanMills/J2EE%20Development/2005/0
7/08/Respect.html

Even though Duncan works for a company that competes with my employer, and
builds a tool that is competitive with the one I work on, I still consider
him a friend, like many things about his product, and collaborate with him
where possible to improve the overall state of the industry.  I
wholeheartedly subscribe to his comments about respect, and would like to
see a return to the way that the Struts user list worked (nearly all of the
time) until fairly recently -- where respect was the norm.  Today it is not
... and even in jest many of the comments are innappropriate and embarrasing
(to the rest of the community, for having to be associated with it).

If you're only here for the Friday [OT] humor, then I suggest you find a
different place to cut loose.  The purpose of this list is to answer user
questions about Struts and all its related technologies -- and you'll sure
like how you look on a Google search ten years from now for your name if
you've posted like a mature adult instead of an immature 8-year-old.

Craig McClanahan

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Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]

[netsql]

Andrew Tomaka wrote the following on 7/8/2005 2:29 PM:
 in the past few weeks, it's all gone downhill.  A

good percentage of threads are now off-topic; not off topic like
discussing the pros and cons of using an IDE, but off topic like what
an H1B is and personal thoughts on outsourcing.



I'm guilty of this also.. so I apologize for contributing to the 
downhill discussion.





+1.

Let's all cut it out. Don't feed a pest.

.V



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Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]

[Brandon Goodin]

There are people who are taking things way too serious around here.
They fall into two groups. #1 The easily offended #2 The lude and
discourteous. What is funny is often they are one and the same.

My comments have been very light hearted and not intended to offend.
If folks take the lighter comments to heart then they need to relax.
If you have people who are being clearly lude, then we should ignore
them (advice i need to take).

At the same time, what community doesn't have light hearted jest. To
take offense at silly jokes about H1Bs or to go off in a serious rage
on an H1B is silly. Both sides need to take a breath.

People, please, lighten up, lose the profane language and serious
hateful attitudes. We are all here to participate in the Struts
community. That doesn't mean we have to be stuffy. But, it does mean
that we should have an edge of courtesy.

For now I'll refrain from engaging in any off-topic discussions. I
hope that people can take it down a notch and relax, then, maybe, we
can learn struts, have some fun and still be a friendly community.

Brandon

On 7/8/05, Craig McClanahan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 7/8/05, James Mitchell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Andrew, you must be new here.  See, on Fridays (usually), we like to cut up
> > and have a little fun.  I think I've donated enough blood on this list to
> > deserve a break every now and then.
> 
> And perhaps its time to reign in the freedom to cut up a little on
> Fridays.  With freedom comes responsibility, and there's been way too
> many abuses of that freedom lately (including this thread).
> 
> > If you don't like wasting time with [OT] posts, filter them.  Every decent
> > mail client will allow you to do that.
> 
> Note that filtering is not a complete answer.  Consider a scenario
> where you are subscribed to a list like this from your company email
> address, where you have (explicitly or implicitly) agreed to whatever
> terms of use your company's IT department imposes on you.  In more
> than a few companies, incoming email messages are scanned for
> inappropriate content -- and you could be violating the policies even
> if you have a personal filter set up so that *you* don't have to read
> the messages.  "But I didn't read it" isn't going to be a very useful
> defense -- any more than if your mom caught you reading Playboy when
> growing up, and you tried "but I didn't look at the pictures, I was
> only reading the articles!"
> 
> I'd like to point you at a blog written recently by an industry
> colleague, who has been observing what's going on here:
>  
> http://www.groundside.com/blog/content/DuncanMills/J2EE%20Development/2005/07/08/Respect.html
> 
> Even though Duncan works for a company that competes with my employer,
> and builds a tool that is competitive with the one I work on, I still
> consider him a friend, like many things about his product, and
> collaborate with him where possible to improve the overall state of
> the industry.  I wholeheartedly subscribe to his comments about
> respect, and would like to see a return to the way that the Struts
> user list worked (nearly all of the time) until fairly recently --
> where respect was the norm.  Today it is not ... and even in jest many
> of the comments are innappropriate and embarrasing (to the rest of the
> community, for having to be associated with it).
> 
> If you're only here for the Friday [OT] humor, then I suggest you find
> a different place to cut loose.  The purpose of this list is to answer
> user questions about Struts and all its related technologies -- and
> you'll sure like how you look on a Google search ten years from now
> for your name if you've posted like a mature adult instead of an
> immature 8-year-old.
> 
> Craig McClanahan
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
>

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Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]

[Brandon Goodin]

Yan Hu is our new troll! I wonder if Yan Hu is some kind of ancient
code for Mark Galbreath :D Mark is that you?

On 7/8/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> And so, the circle is complete.
> 
> :)
> 
> - Dennis
> 
> 
> "James Mitchell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 07/08/2005 04:43 PM
> Please respond to
> "Struts Users Mailing List" 
> 
> 
> To
> "Struts Users Mailing List" , "Andrew Tomaka"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> cc
> 
> Subject
> Re: [OT] Re: Fired was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andrew, you must be new here.  See, on Fridays (usually), we like to cut
> up
> and have a little fun.  I think I've donated enough blood on this list to
> deserve a break every now and then.
> 
> If you don't like wasting time with [OT] posts, filter them.  Every decent
> 
> mail client will allow you to do that.
> 
> 
> 
> --
> James Mitchell
> Software Engineer / Open Source Evangelist
> Consulting / Mentoring / Freelance
> EdgeTech, Inc.
> http://www.edgetechservices.net/
> 678.910.8017
> AIM:   jmitchtx
> MSN:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Skype: jmitchtx
> 
> ----- Original Message -
> From: "Andrew Tomaka" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Struts Users Mailing List" 
> Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 2:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Fired was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations
> [OT]
> 
> 
> I was trying to avoid jumping in here, but I couldn't hold out.
> 
> How about we all grow up and act like adults?  Never in my life have I
> seen such a childish display.  I think Rick's "My mom can beat up your
> mom." made the same point I'm making here.  And Yan, you may have
> given it a "hahaha +1," but that was directed at you just as much as
> it was directed at anyone else.
> 
> This is supposed to be a list of professionals.  We are all here
> trying to help one another through our Struts issues.  I fail to see
> how making fun of some for using or not using an IDE or discussing
> anti-discrimination laws or most everything that has been written in
> the last two weeks applies to the goals of this list.  And I certainly
> don't see how saying things like "Can you even reason logically? Ha
> you can not since you do not have a brain." helps anyone in anyway.
> 
> When I joined the Struts list in May, it was an invaluable resource.
> I was able to quickly learn the framework through the questions others
> were asking.  But in the past few weeks, it's all gone downhill.  A
> good percentage of threads are now off-topic; not off topic like
> discussing the pros and cons of using an IDE, but off topic like what
> an H1B is and personal thoughts on outsourcing.
> 
> Why don't we get back to the reason this list exists and the purpose
> of Sturts: making our lives easier.
> 
> ~ Andrew Tomaka
> 
> 
> On 7/8/05, Yan Hu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> > --- James Mitchell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > ROFL
> > >
> > > Oh ya!  My mom can beat up your dad!
> >
> > hahaha +1
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
>

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Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]

[Craig McClanahan]

On 7/8/05, James Mitchell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Andrew, you must be new here.  See, on Fridays (usually), we like to cut up
> and have a little fun.  I think I've donated enough blood on this list to
> deserve a break every now and then.

And perhaps its time to reign in the freedom to cut up a little on
Fridays.  With freedom comes responsibility, and there's been way too
many abuses of that freedom lately (including this thread).

> If you don't like wasting time with [OT] posts, filter them.  Every decent
> mail client will allow you to do that.

Note that filtering is not a complete answer.  Consider a scenario
where you are subscribed to a list like this from your company email
address, where you have (explicitly or implicitly) agreed to whatever
terms of use your company's IT department imposes on you.  In more
than a few companies, incoming email messages are scanned for
inappropriate content -- and you could be violating the policies even
if you have a personal filter set up so that *you* don't have to read
the messages.  "But I didn't read it" isn't going to be a very useful
defense -- any more than if your mom caught you reading Playboy when
growing up, and you tried "but I didn't look at the pictures, I was
only reading the articles!"

I'd like to point you at a blog written recently by an industry
colleague, who has been observing what's going on here:
 
http://www.groundside.com/blog/content/DuncanMills/J2EE%20Development/2005/07/08/Respect.html

Even though Duncan works for a company that competes with my employer,
and builds a tool that is competitive with the one I work on, I still
consider him a friend, like many things about his product, and
collaborate with him where possible to improve the overall state of
the industry.  I wholeheartedly subscribe to his comments about
respect, and would like to see a return to the way that the Struts
user list worked (nearly all of the time) until fairly recently --
where respect was the norm.  Today it is not ... and even in jest many
of the comments are innappropriate and embarrasing (to the rest of the
community, for having to be associated with it).

If you're only here for the Friday [OT] humor, then I suggest you find
a different place to cut loose.  The purpose of this list is to answer
user questions about Struts and all its related technologies -- and
you'll sure like how you look on a Google search ten years from now
for your name if you've posted like a mature adult instead of an
immature 8-year-old.

Craig McClanahan

-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]

[DGraham]

And so, the circle is complete. 

:)

- Dennis


"James Mitchell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
07/08/2005 04:43 PM
Please respond to
"Struts Users Mailing List" 


To
"Struts Users Mailing List" , "Andrew Tomaka" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc

Subject
Re: [OT] Re: Fired was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]






Andrew, you must be new here.  See, on Fridays (usually), we like to cut 
up 
and have a little fun.  I think I've donated enough blood on this list to 
deserve a break every now and then.

If you don't like wasting time with [OT] posts, filter them.  Every decent 

mail client will allow you to do that.



--
James Mitchell
Software Engineer / Open Source Evangelist
Consulting / Mentoring / Freelance
EdgeTech, Inc.
http://www.edgetechservices.net/
678.910.8017
AIM:   jmitchtx
MSN:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Skype: jmitchtx

- Original Message - 
From: "Andrew Tomaka" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Struts Users Mailing List" 
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 2:29 PM
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Fired was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations 
[OT]


I was trying to avoid jumping in here, but I couldn't hold out.

How about we all grow up and act like adults?  Never in my life have I
seen such a childish display.  I think Rick's "My mom can beat up your
mom." made the same point I'm making here.  And Yan, you may have
given it a "hahaha +1," but that was directed at you just as much as
it was directed at anyone else.

This is supposed to be a list of professionals.  We are all here
trying to help one another through our Struts issues.  I fail to see
how making fun of some for using or not using an IDE or discussing
anti-discrimination laws or most everything that has been written in
the last two weeks applies to the goals of this list.  And I certainly
don't see how saying things like "Can you even reason logically? Ha
you can not since you do not have a brain." helps anyone in anyway.

When I joined the Struts list in May, it was an invaluable resource.
I was able to quickly learn the framework through the questions others
were asking.  But in the past few weeks, it's all gone downhill.  A
good percentage of threads are now off-topic; not off topic like
discussing the pros and cons of using an IDE, but off topic like what
an H1B is and personal thoughts on outsourcing.

Why don't we get back to the reason this list exists and the purpose
of Sturts: making our lives easier.

~ Andrew Tomaka


On 7/8/05, Yan Hu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> --- James Mitchell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > ROFL
> >
> > Oh ya!  My mom can beat up your dad!
>
> hahaha +1
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>

-
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For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]




-
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Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]

[James Mitchell]

Andrew, you must be new here.  See, on Fridays (usually), we like to cut up 
and have a little fun.  I think I've donated enough blood on this list to 
deserve a break every now and then.


If you don't like wasting time with [OT] posts, filter them.  Every decent 
mail client will allow you to do that.




--
James Mitchell
Software Engineer / Open Source Evangelist
Consulting / Mentoring / Freelance
EdgeTech, Inc.
http://www.edgetechservices.net/
678.910.8017
AIM:   jmitchtx
MSN:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Skype: jmitchtx

- Original Message - 
From: "Andrew Tomaka" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Struts Users Mailing List" 
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 2:29 PM
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Fired was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]


I was trying to avoid jumping in here, but I couldn't hold out.

How about we all grow up and act like adults?  Never in my life have I
seen such a childish display.  I think Rick's "My mom can beat up your
mom." made the same point I'm making here.  And Yan, you may have
given it a "hahaha +1," but that was directed at you just as much as
it was directed at anyone else.

This is supposed to be a list of professionals.  We are all here
trying to help one another through our Struts issues.  I fail to see
how making fun of some for using or not using an IDE or discussing
anti-discrimination laws or most everything that has been written in
the last two weeks applies to the goals of this list.  And I certainly
don't see how saying things like "Can you even reason logically? Ha
you can not since you do not have a brain." helps anyone in anyway.

When I joined the Struts list in May, it was an invaluable resource.
I was able to quickly learn the framework through the questions others
were asking.  But in the past few weeks, it's all gone downhill.  A
good percentage of threads are now off-topic; not off topic like
discussing the pros and cons of using an IDE, but off topic like what
an H1B is and personal thoughts on outsourcing.

Why don't we get back to the reason this list exists and the purpose
of Sturts: making our lives easier.

~ Andrew Tomaka


On 7/8/05, Yan Hu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



--- James Mitchell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> ROFL
>
> Oh ya!  My mom can beat up your dad!

hahaha +1

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Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations...now spellings[OT]

[Michael Taylor]

Too bad it also matches almost every ISP's domain name... :-O


Michael Taylor
TXE Systems, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


Brady Hegberg wrote:


Google results:

struts:  2,330,000
sturts: 7,470
sruts: 1,700
srtuts: 1,040
strutus: 328

The one big advantage of .net:  it's easy to spell.

-Brady

 


Why don't we get back to the reason this list exists and the purpose
of Sturts: making our lives easier.

~ Andrew Tomaka
   





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Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations...now spellings[OT]

[Larry Meadors]

...but a real bugger to google for - #? .net? 

Too bad M$ couldn't somehow work an & and a ? into the name...

Hmm, C#&ASP.NET?

Looks like a cartoon character swearing...or me trying to write code
with vs.net.

Larry

PS: it is friday, right?

On 7/8/05, Brady Hegberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Google results:
> 
> struts:  2,330,000
> sturts: 7,470
> sruts: 1,700
> srtuts: 1,040
> strutus: 328
> 
> The one big advantage of .net:  it's easy to spell.
> 
> -Brady
> 
> > Why don't we get back to the reason this list exists and the purpose
> > of Sturts: making our lives easier.
> >
> > ~ Andrew Tomaka
> 
> 
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
>

-
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Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations...now spellings[OT]

[Brady Hegberg]

Google results:

struts:  2,330,000
sturts: 7,470
sruts: 1,700
srtuts: 1,040
strutus: 328

The one big advantage of .net:  it's easy to spell.

-Brady

> Why don't we get back to the reason this list exists and the purpose
> of Sturts: making our lives easier.
> 
> ~ Andrew Tomaka



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Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]

[Rick Reumann]

Andrew Tomaka wrote the following on 7/8/2005 2:29 PM:
 
When I joined the Struts list in May, it was an invaluable resource. 
I was able to quickly learn the framework through the questions others

were asking.  But in the past few weeks, it's all gone downhill.  A
good percentage of threads are now off-topic; not off topic like
discussing the pros and cons of using an IDE, but off topic like what
an H1B is and personal thoughts on outsourcing.


I'm guilty of this also.. so I apologize for contributing to the 
downhill discussion.


Fortunately most users are still pretty helpful and still manage to help 
out the people asking questions that get stuck between a million OT 
posts:) As annoying/amusing(?:) many of the OT posts are on this list, I 
still find more helpful people on this list than many of the lists I've 
been on.


--
Rick

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RE: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]

[Goswami, Raj]

Sorry, wrong posting.  Not intended for this group.

Thanks,

-Original Message-
From: Goswami, Raj 
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 2:33 PM
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'; 'Andrew Tomaka'
Subject: RE: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations
[OT]


Right click on the wsad app and select property.  Take out everything after 
"...\wsappdev.exe."

Thanks,

Raj

-Original Message-
From: Andrew Tomaka [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 2:30 PM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Fired was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations
[OT]


I was trying to avoid jumping in here, but I couldn't hold out.

How about we all grow up and act like adults?  Never in my life have I
seen such a childish display.  I think Rick's "My mom can beat up your
mom." made the same point I'm making here.  And Yan, you may have
given it a "hahaha +1," but that was directed at you just as much as
it was directed at anyone else.

This is supposed to be a list of professionals.  We are all here
trying to help one another through our Struts issues.  I fail to see
how making fun of some for using or not using an IDE or discussing
anti-discrimination laws or most everything that has been written in
the last two weeks applies to the goals of this list.  And I certainly
don't see how saying things like "Can you even reason logically? Ha
you can not since you do not have a brain." helps anyone in anyway.

When I joined the Struts list in May, it was an invaluable resource. 
I was able to quickly learn the framework through the questions others
were asking.  But in the past few weeks, it's all gone downhill.  A
good percentage of threads are now off-topic; not off topic like
discussing the pros and cons of using an IDE, but off topic like what
an H1B is and personal thoughts on outsourcing.

Why don't we get back to the reason this list exists and the purpose
of Sturts: making our lives easier.

~ Andrew Tomaka


On 7/8/05, Yan Hu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> 
> --- James Mitchell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > ROFL
> >
> > Oh ya!  My mom can beat up your dad!
> 
> hahaha +1
> 
> -
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RE: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]

[Goswami, Raj]

Right click on the wsad app and select property.  Take out everything after 
"...\wsappdev.exe."

Thanks,

Raj

-Original Message-
From: Andrew Tomaka [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 2:30 PM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations
[OT]


I was trying to avoid jumping in here, but I couldn't hold out.

How about we all grow up and act like adults?  Never in my life have I
seen such a childish display.  I think Rick's "My mom can beat up your
mom." made the same point I'm making here.  And Yan, you may have
given it a "hahaha +1," but that was directed at you just as much as
it was directed at anyone else.

This is supposed to be a list of professionals.  We are all here
trying to help one another through our Struts issues.  I fail to see
how making fun of some for using or not using an IDE or discussing
anti-discrimination laws or most everything that has been written in
the last two weeks applies to the goals of this list.  And I certainly
don't see how saying things like "Can you even reason logically? Ha
you can not since you do not have a brain." helps anyone in anyway.

When I joined the Struts list in May, it was an invaluable resource. 
I was able to quickly learn the framework through the questions others
were asking.  But in the past few weeks, it's all gone downhill.  A
good percentage of threads are now off-topic; not off topic like
discussing the pros and cons of using an IDE, but off topic like what
an H1B is and personal thoughts on outsourcing.

Why don't we get back to the reason this list exists and the purpose
of Sturts: making our lives easier.

~ Andrew Tomaka


On 7/8/05, Yan Hu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> 
> --- James Mitchell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > ROFL
> >
> > Oh ya!  My mom can beat up your dad!
> 
> hahaha +1
> 
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Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]

[Andrew Tomaka]

I was trying to avoid jumping in here, but I couldn't hold out.

How about we all grow up and act like adults?  Never in my life have I
seen such a childish display.  I think Rick's "My mom can beat up your
mom." made the same point I'm making here.  And Yan, you may have
given it a "hahaha +1," but that was directed at you just as much as
it was directed at anyone else.

This is supposed to be a list of professionals.  We are all here
trying to help one another through our Struts issues.  I fail to see
how making fun of some for using or not using an IDE or discussing
anti-discrimination laws or most everything that has been written in
the last two weeks applies to the goals of this list.  And I certainly
don't see how saying things like "Can you even reason logically? Ha
you can not since you do not have a brain." helps anyone in anyway.

When I joined the Struts list in May, it was an invaluable resource. 
I was able to quickly learn the framework through the questions others
were asking.  But in the past few weeks, it's all gone downhill.  A
good percentage of threads are now off-topic; not off topic like
discussing the pros and cons of using an IDE, but off topic like what
an H1B is and personal thoughts on outsourcing.

Why don't we get back to the reason this list exists and the purpose
of Sturts: making our lives easier.

~ Andrew Tomaka


On 7/8/05, Yan Hu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> 
> --- James Mitchell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > ROFL
> >
> > Oh ya!  My mom can beat up your dad!
> 
> hahaha +1
> 
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Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]

[Yan Hu]

--- Rick Reumann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Yan Hu wrote the following on 7/8/2005 1:29 PM:
> 
> > I respect good people(regardless of races) not an asshole like you. 
> 
> My mom can beat up your mom.
> 
> -- 
> Rick
Do you have a Mom?  Come on man.. Be strong. I understand how tought life can 
be without a Mom?
But try to talk as if you had one...
 


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RE: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]

[Durham David R Jr Ctr 805 CSPTS/SCE]

> ROFL
> 
> Oh ya!  My mom can beat up your dad!

Your dad beat up my mom!  BTW, she wants a rematch.


- Dave

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Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]

[Yan Hu]

--- James Mitchell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> ROFL
> 
> Oh ya!  My mom can beat up your dad!

hahaha +1

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Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]

[James Mitchell]

ROFL

Oh ya!  My mom can beat up your dad!



--
James Mitchell
Software Engineer / Open Source Evangelist
Consulting / Mentoring / Freelance
EdgeTech, Inc.
http://www.edgetechservices.net/
678.910.8017
AIM:   jmitchtx
MSN:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Skype: jmitchtx

- Original Message - 
From: "Rick Reumann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Struts Users Mailing List" 
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 2:03 PM
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]



Yan Hu wrote the following on 7/8/2005 1:29 PM:

I respect good people(regardless of races) not an asshole like you. 


My mom can beat up your mom.

--
Rick

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Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]

[Rick Reumann]

Yan Hu wrote the following on 7/8/2005 1:29 PM:

I respect good people(regardless of races) not an asshole like you. 


My mom can beat up your mom.

--
Rick

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Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]

[James Mitchell]

Personally, I try not to discriminate against idiots.  I like to treat them 
all the same.



--
James Mitchell
Software Engineer / Open Source Evangelist
Consulting / Mentoring / Freelance
EdgeTech, Inc.
http://www.edgetechservices.net/
678.910.8017
AIM:   jmitchtx
MSN:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Skype: jmitchtx

- Original Message - 
From: "Yan Hu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Struts Users Mailing List" ; "Martin Gainty" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 1:29 PM
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]





Mr Yan:

For most of us here this is not a game but a livelihood
If I go to China or India I understand that am a guest in that country 
and

aware that I must not abuse and or break the laws of the country..
Calling someone that makes fun of others an "idiot" definately does not 
break any law in the US.



Remembering that it is against anti-discrimination law here to denigrate 
or

vilify anyone according to ethnic and or racial heritage (even US
Citizens)..> Calling someone 'an idiot' based on ANY grouping criteria as 
you have here

is clearly discriminatory
it is also against anti-discrimination law to make fun of minorities. 
Hahah, you are such a big
idiot. Can you even reason logically? Ha you can not since you do not have 
a brain.





In your case I would suggest that you are not Remembering that you are
guests here of my country> I am asking is that you and your fellow guests 
extend the SAME

courtesy as I a US Citizen would extend if I was working in your country.
Haha again, I guess you would be a coward in a different country becuas 
you will NOT defend
yourself when the natives make fun of you. And now you are an idiot + 
coward. I dispise you.




That is to respect and obey ALL the laws of my country and that ALSO that
your words and behaviour should extend respect to ALL of its
citizens..

I respect good people(regardless of races) not an asshole like you.

Remember also that any US Citizen can file a complaint against any
H1B with the INS so in your case I would caution you to be careful what 
you

say from now on.
I will tell you that you can do whatever you want. Just remember not to 
flinch in a different

country becuase you will be victimized by idoits like yourself.



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Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]

[Yan Hu]

Brandon:
Now you perhaps have seen his email. Was he joking? No he was very serious.


--- Brandon Goodin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Yan Hu,
> 
> Take it down a notch amigo. If you hadn't noticed we were being
> playful. Maybe they don't have a since of humor in other countries ;-)
> <-- please notice wink face so that you are not offended and under the
> assumption that i am serious.
> 
> Brandon
> 
> On 7/8/05, Yan Hu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Last time the price tag I checked on these 2 idiots was 0/hour. Is this 
> > your personal
> playground
> > to make fun of H1Bs or a struts list? Hey, do not hate the players. Hate 
> > the game.
> > 
> > --- Martin Gainty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 
> > > Brandon-
> > > Keeping in mind that No inductive generalisations can qualify from these
> > > premises
> > > The last time I checked The price for the aforementioned is pegged at
> > > 1c/hour
> > > which by my calculations qualifies as 'outsourcing the outsourcers'
> > > This is the MSRP ..Your mileage may of course vary depending on your usage
> > > habits..
> > > Viel Gluck,
> > > M-
> > >
> > > - Original Message -----
> > > From: "Brandon Goodin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: "Struts Users Mailing List" ; "Martin Gainty"
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 8:39 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Fired was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations 
> > > [OT]
> > >
> > >
> > > Where do you work!? I am going to notify your boss of you disgruntle
> > > behavior on this list!!! No wonder why we have H1Bs. They never
> > > complain and just take their 2 cents an hour.
> > >
> > > And I mean that in the best possible way :p ;-) :D
> > >
> > > Brandon
> > >
> > > On 7/6/05, Martin Gainty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > Unfortunately in the US you can be canned for being too old or having 
> > > > the
> > > > wrong religious views
> > > > we have a ton of laws on the books but they are unenforced
> > > > My question is how do I (an older engineer with politically incorrect
> > > > views)
> > > > get work in Germany
> > > > Vielen Danke,
> > > > Martin-
> > > > - Original Message -
> > > > From: "Christian Bollmeyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > To: "Struts Users Mailing List" 
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 7:31 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Fired was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations
> > > > [OT]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > On Wednesday 06 July 2005 19:48, Rick Reumann wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > >
> > > > >> Daniel Perry wrote the following on 7/6/2005 12:49 PM:
> > > > >> > Hah, it's the business use of web/email they fire you for. Go read
> > > > >> > your terms of employment, and the reference to "IT acceptible use
> > > > >> > policy" that you inadvertantly agreed to.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> (the below has nothing to do with Mark)..
> > > > >>
> > > > >> For the record, I'm not against an employer firing an employee for
> > > > >> 'whatever' reason they deem fit. If they don't like the way you wear
> > > > >> your hair, I think they should have the right to fire you if they
> > > > >> want. (The public also has a right to know about it based on the use
> > > > >> of the press etc).
> > > > >
> > > > > Now though I'm clearly not in the position to get fired anytime soon,
> > > > > I still think as long as I'm doing my job right and don't blame the
> > > > > company I work for, what I do in my leisure time is not my
> > > > > employer's business. Including my haircut, age, religious beliefs
> > > > > or whatever. What I sell are my skills, work performance and
> > > > > last but not least a significant part of my lifetime, but neither
> > > > > my soul nor my private life. In Germany, it's not quite that easy
> > > > > to get rid of someone who, lets say,  just got older because of
> > > > > working for you. And

Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]

[Yan Hu]

> Mr Yan:
> 
> For most of us here this is not a game but a livelihood
> If I go to China or India I understand that am a guest in that country and 
> aware that I must not abuse and or break the laws of the country..
Calling someone that makes fun of others an "idiot" definately does not break 
any law in the US.


> Remembering that it is against anti-discrimination law here to denigrate or 
> vilify anyone according to ethnic and or racial heritage (even US 
> Citizens)..> Calling someone 'an idiot' based on ANY grouping criteria as you 
> have here 
> is clearly discriminatory
 it is also against anti-discrimination law to make fun of minorities. Hahah, 
you are such a big
idiot. Can you even reason logically? Ha you can not since you do not have a 
brain.



> In your case I would suggest that you are not Remembering that you are 
> guests here of my country> I am asking is that you and your fellow guests 
> extend the SAME
courtesy as I a US Citizen would extend if I was working in your country.
Haha again, I guess you would be a coward in a different country becuas you 
will NOT defend
yourself when the natives make fun of you. And now you are an idiot + coward. I 
dispise you.


> That is to respect and obey ALL the laws of my country and that ALSO that 
> your words and behaviour should extend respect to ALL of its 
> citizens..
I respect good people(regardless of races) not an asshole like you. 

Remember also that any US Citizen can file a complaint against any 
> H1B with the INS so in your case I would caution you to be careful what you 
> say from now on.
I will tell you that you can do whatever you want. Just remember not to flinch 
in a different
country becuase you will be victimized by idoits like yourself.



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RE: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]

[Daniel Perry]

"requires theoretical and practical application of a body of specialized
knowledge along with at least a bachelor’s degree"

**or**

"fashion model of distinguished merit and ability"

Just think where you could get if you're a model with a degree!

i love some of the obscure things in american laws/rules. (not that i'm
saying british rules are any better)

> -Original Message-
> From: Simon Chappell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: 08 July 2005 14:20
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Fired was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations
> [OT]
>
>
> Hey, I had an H-1B when I first came to America. Does that mean I can
> be a fashion model? :-)
>
> On 7/8/05, Daniel Perry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > "What is an H-1B?
> >
> > The H-1B is a nonimmigrant classification used by an alien who will be
> > employed temporarily in a specialty occupation or as a fashion model of
> > distinguished merit and ability."
> >
> > Now, why doesn't it suprise me that the americans make a
> special case for a
> > fashion model!!!
> >
> > Daniel.
> >
> > > -Original Message-----
> > > From: Scott Piker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Sent: 08 July 2005 13:49
> > > To: Struts Users Mailing List
> > > Subject: RE: [OT] Re: Fired was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations
> > > [OT]
> > >
> > >
> > > It's a type of temporary work visa in the US.
> > >
> > > http://uscis.gov/graphics/howdoi/h1b.htm
> > >
> > >
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > From: Daniel Perry [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 5:33 AM
> > > > To: Struts Users Mailing List
> > > > Subject: RE: [OT] Re: Fired was...Re: Struts Books
> > > > Recommendations [OT]
> > > >
> > > > Applogies for being english or maybe just naive, but what the
> > > > hell is a H1B?
> > > >
> > > > Daniel.
> > > >
> > >
> > > -
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > -
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> >
> >
>
>
> --
> www.simonpeter.com
>
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Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]

[Simon Chappell]

Hey, I had an H-1B when I first came to America. Does that mean I can
be a fashion model? :-)

On 7/8/05, Daniel Perry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "What is an H-1B?
> 
> The H-1B is a nonimmigrant classification used by an alien who will be
> employed temporarily in a specialty occupation or as a fashion model of
> distinguished merit and ability."
> 
> Now, why doesn't it suprise me that the americans make a special case for a
> fashion model!!!
> 
> Daniel.
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Scott Piker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: 08 July 2005 13:49
> > To: Struts Users Mailing List
> > Subject: RE: [OT] Re: Fired was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations
> > [OT]
> >
> >
> > It's a type of temporary work visa in the US.
> >
> > http://uscis.gov/graphics/howdoi/h1b.htm
> >
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Daniel Perry [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 5:33 AM
> > > To: Struts Users Mailing List
> > > Subject: RE: [OT] Re: Fired was...Re: Struts Books
> > > Recommendations [OT]
> > >
> > > Applogies for being english or maybe just naive, but what the
> > > hell is a H1B?
> > >
> > > Daniel.
> > >
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> 
> 
> -
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> 


-- 
www.simonpeter.com

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RE: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]

[Daniel Perry]

"What is an H-1B?

The H-1B is a nonimmigrant classification used by an alien who will be
employed temporarily in a specialty occupation or as a fashion model of
distinguished merit and ability."

Now, why doesn't it suprise me that the americans make a special case for a
fashion model!!!

Daniel.

> -Original Message-
> From: Scott Piker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: 08 July 2005 13:49
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: RE: [OT] Re: Fired was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations
> [OT]
>
>
> It's a type of temporary work visa in the US.
>
> http://uscis.gov/graphics/howdoi/h1b.htm
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Daniel Perry [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 5:33 AM
> > To: Struts Users Mailing List
> > Subject: RE: [OT] Re: Fired was...Re: Struts Books
> > Recommendations [OT]
> >
> > Applogies for being english or maybe just naive, but what the
> > hell is a H1B?
> >
> > Daniel.
> >
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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>
>


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Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]

[Martin Gainty]

Mr Yan:

For most of us here this is not a game but a livelihood
If I go to China or India I understand that am a guest in that country and 
aware that I must not abuse and or break the laws of the country..
Remembering that it is against anti-discrimination law here to denigrate or 
vilify anyone according to ethnic and or racial heritage (even US 
Citizens)..
Calling someone 'an idiot' based on ANY grouping criteria as you have here 
is clearly discriminatory
In your case I would suggest that you are not Remembering that you are 
guests here of my country
I am asking is that you and your fellow guests extend the SAME courtesy as I 
a US Citizen would extend if I was working in your country.
That is to respect and obey ALL the laws of my country and that ALSO that 
your words and behaviour should extend respect to ALL of its 
citizens..Remember also that any US Citizen can file a complaint against any 
H1B with the INS so in your case I would caution you to be careful what you 
say from now on.
I will tell you based on your comment that you have clearly stepped over the 
line of appropriateness and should not do so again
I would also state your actions reflect that I consider you to be an 
extremely poor representative of your country and if you worked for me I 
would fire you on the spot..The last time I checked the INS is not in the 
business of supporting misbehaving and or inappropriate behaviour of H1Bs 
who are here as Guests of our country.
Please refrain from using this list to promote and or make excuses for your 
clearly inappropriate behavior.

Martin-
- Original Message - 
From: "Yan Hu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Struts Users Mailing List" 
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 2:40 AM
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Fired was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]


Last time the price tag I checked on these 2 idiots was 0/hour. Is this 
your personal playground
to make fun of H1Bs or a struts list? Hey, do not hate the players. Hate 
the game.


--- Martin Gainty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Brandon-
Keeping in mind that No inductive generalisations can qualify from these
premises
The last time I checked The price for the aforementioned is pegged at
1c/hour
which by my calculations qualifies as 'outsourcing the outsourcers'
This is the MSRP ..Your mileage may of course vary depending on your 
usage

habits..
Viel Gluck,
M-

- Original Message - 
From: "Brandon Goodin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Struts Users Mailing List" ; "Martin Gainty"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 8:39 PM
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Fired was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations 
[OT]



Where do you work!? I am going to notify your boss of you disgruntle
behavior on this list!!! No wonder why we have H1Bs. They never
complain and just take their 2 cents an hour.

And I mean that in the best possible way :p ;-) :D

Brandon

On 7/6/05, Martin Gainty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Unfortunately in the US you can be canned for being too old or having 
> the

> wrong religious views
> we have a ton of laws on the books but they are unenforced
> My question is how do I (an older engineer with politically incorrect
> views)
> get work in Germany
> Vielen Danke,
> Martin-
> - Original Message -
> From: "Christian Bollmeyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Struts Users Mailing List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 7:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Fired was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations
> [OT]
>
>
> > On Wednesday 06 July 2005 19:48, Rick Reumann wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> >> Daniel Perry wrote the following on 7/6/2005 12:49 PM:
> >> > Hah, it's the business use of web/email they fire you for. Go read
> >> > your terms of employment, and the reference to "IT acceptible use
> >> > policy" that you inadvertantly agreed to.
> >>
> >> (the below has nothing to do with Mark)..
> >>
> >> For the record, I'm not against an employer firing an employee for
> >> 'whatever' reason they deem fit. If they don't like the way you wear
> >> your hair, I think they should have the right to fire you if they
> >> want. (The public also has a right to know about it based on the use
> >> of the press etc).
> >
> > Now though I'm clearly not in the position to get fired anytime soon,
> > I still think as long as I'm doing my job right and don't blame the
> > company I work for, what I do in my leisure time is not my
> > employer's business. Including my haircut, age, religious beliefs
> > or whatever. What I sell are my skills, work performance and
> > last but not least a significant part of my lifetime, but neith

Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]

[Brandon Goodin]

Yan Hu,

Take it down a notch amigo. If you hadn't noticed we were being
playful. Maybe they don't have a since of humor in other countries ;-)
<-- please notice wink face so that you are not offended and under the
assumption that i am serious.

Brandon

On 7/8/05, Yan Hu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Last time the price tag I checked on these 2 idiots was 0/hour. Is this your 
> personal playground
> to make fun of H1Bs or a struts list? Hey, do not hate the players. Hate the 
> game.
> 
> --- Martin Gainty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > Brandon-
> > Keeping in mind that No inductive generalisations can qualify from these
> > premises
> > The last time I checked The price for the aforementioned is pegged at
> > 1c/hour
> > which by my calculations qualifies as 'outsourcing the outsourcers'
> > This is the MSRP ..Your mileage may of course vary depending on your usage
> > habits..
> > Viel Gluck,
> > M-
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Brandon Goodin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "Struts Users Mailing List" ; "Martin Gainty"
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 8:39 PM
> > Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Fired was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]
> >
> >
> > Where do you work!? I am going to notify your boss of you disgruntle
> > behavior on this list!!! No wonder why we have H1Bs. They never
> > complain and just take their 2 cents an hour.
> >
> > And I mean that in the best possible way :p ;-) :D
> >
> > Brandon
> >
> > On 7/6/05, Martin Gainty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Unfortunately in the US you can be canned for being too old or having the
> > > wrong religious views
> > > we have a ton of laws on the books but they are unenforced
> > > My question is how do I (an older engineer with politically incorrect
> > > views)
> > > get work in Germany
> > > Vielen Danke,
> > > Martin-
> > > - Original Message -
> > > From: "Christian Bollmeyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: "Struts Users Mailing List" 
> > > Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 7:31 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Fired was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations
> > > [OT]
> > >
> > >
> > > > On Wednesday 06 July 2005 19:48, Rick Reumann wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > >> Daniel Perry wrote the following on 7/6/2005 12:49 PM:
> > > >> > Hah, it's the business use of web/email they fire you for. Go read
> > > >> > your terms of employment, and the reference to "IT acceptible use
> > > >> > policy" that you inadvertantly agreed to.
> > > >>
> > > >> (the below has nothing to do with Mark)..
> > > >>
> > > >> For the record, I'm not against an employer firing an employee for
> > > >> 'whatever' reason they deem fit. If they don't like the way you wear
> > > >> your hair, I think they should have the right to fire you if they
> > > >> want. (The public also has a right to know about it based on the use
> > > >> of the press etc).
> > > >
> > > > Now though I'm clearly not in the position to get fired anytime soon,
> > > > I still think as long as I'm doing my job right and don't blame the
> > > > company I work for, what I do in my leisure time is not my
> > > > employer's business. Including my haircut, age, religious beliefs
> > > > or whatever. What I sell are my skills, work performance and
> > > > last but not least a significant part of my lifetime, but neither
> > > > my soul nor my private life. In Germany, it's not quite that easy
> > > > to get rid of someone who, lets say,  just got older because of
> > > > working for you. And I think this is just. Stealing silver spoons,
> > > > including deliberately breaking company rules in terms of
> > > > e-mail usage and the like is another issue.
> > > >
> > > >> Personally, if I owned a company and someone was using the company
> > > >> email domain name to post on sites such as "swingers" or
> > > >> "transvestitepride," I think I should have right to terminate his or
> > > >> her's employment. What I have a problem with is ...
> > > >>
> > >

RE: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]

[Scott Piker]

It's a type of temporary work visa in the US.

http://uscis.gov/graphics/howdoi/h1b.htm


> -Original Message-
> From: Daniel Perry [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 5:33 AM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: RE: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books 
> Recommendations [OT]
> 
> Applogies for being english or maybe just naive, but what the 
> hell is a H1B?
> 
> Daniel.
> 

-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]

[Daniel Perry]

Applogies for being english or maybe just naive, but what the hell is a H1B?

Daniel.

> -Original Message-
> From: Yan Hu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: 08 July 2005 07:40
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Fired was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations
> [OT]
>
>
> Last time the price tag I checked on these 2 idiots was 0/hour.
> Is this your personal playground
> to make fun of H1Bs or a struts list? Hey, do not hate the
> players. Hate the game.
>
> --- Martin Gainty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Brandon-
> > Keeping in mind that No inductive generalisations can qualify
> from these
> > premises
> > The last time I checked The price for the aforementioned is pegged at
> > 1c/hour
> > which by my calculations qualifies as 'outsourcing the outsourcers'
> > This is the MSRP ..Your mileage may of course vary depending on
> your usage
> > habits..
> > Viel Gluck,
> > M-
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Brandon Goodin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "Struts Users Mailing List" ;
> "Martin Gainty"
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 8:39 PM
> > Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Fired was...Re: Struts Books
> Recommendations [OT]
> >
> >
> > Where do you work!? I am going to notify your boss of you disgruntle
> > behavior on this list!!! No wonder why we have H1Bs. They never
> > complain and just take their 2 cents an hour.
> >
> > And I mean that in the best possible way :p ;-) :D
> >
> > Brandon
> >
> > On 7/6/05, Martin Gainty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Unfortunately in the US you can be canned for being too old
> or having the
> > > wrong religious views
> > > we have a ton of laws on the books but they are unenforced
> > > My question is how do I (an older engineer with politically incorrect
> > > views)
> > > get work in Germany
> > > Vielen Danke,
> > > Martin-
> > > - Original Message -
> > > From: "Christian Bollmeyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: "Struts Users Mailing List" 
> > > Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 7:31 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Fired was...Re: Struts Books
> Recommendations
> > > [OT]
> > >
> > >
> > > > On Wednesday 06 July 2005 19:48, Rick Reumann wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > >> Daniel Perry wrote the following on 7/6/2005 12:49 PM:
> > > >> > Hah, it's the business use of web/email they fire you
> for. Go read
> > > >> > your terms of employment, and the reference to "IT acceptible use
> > > >> > policy" that you inadvertantly agreed to.
> > > >>
> > > >> (the below has nothing to do with Mark)..
> > > >>
> > > >> For the record, I'm not against an employer firing an employee for
> > > >> 'whatever' reason they deem fit. If they don't like the
> way you wear
> > > >> your hair, I think they should have the right to fire you if they
> > > >> want. (The public also has a right to know about it based
> on the use
> > > >> of the press etc).
> > > >
> > > > Now though I'm clearly not in the position to get fired
> anytime soon,
> > > > I still think as long as I'm doing my job right and don't blame the
> > > > company I work for, what I do in my leisure time is not my
> > > > employer's business. Including my haircut, age, religious beliefs
> > > > or whatever. What I sell are my skills, work performance and
> > > > last but not least a significant part of my lifetime, but neither
> > > > my soul nor my private life. In Germany, it's not quite that easy
> > > > to get rid of someone who, lets say,  just got older because of
> > > > working for you. And I think this is just. Stealing silver spoons,
> > > > including deliberately breaking company rules in terms of
> > > > e-mail usage and the like is another issue.
> > > >
> > > >> Personally, if I owned a company and someone was using the company
> > > >> email domain name to post on sites such as "swingers" or
> > > >> "transvestitepride," I think I should have right to
> terminate his or
> > > >> her's employment. What I have 

Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]

[Yan Hu]

Last time the price tag I checked on these 2 idiots was 0/hour. Is this your 
personal playground
to make fun of H1Bs or a struts list? Hey, do not hate the players. Hate the 
game. 

--- Martin Gainty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Brandon-
> Keeping in mind that No inductive generalisations can qualify from these 
> premises
> The last time I checked The price for the aforementioned is pegged at 
> 1c/hour
> which by my calculations qualifies as 'outsourcing the outsourcers'
> This is the MSRP ..Your mileage may of course vary depending on your usage 
> habits..
> Viel Gluck,
> M-
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Brandon Goodin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Struts Users Mailing List" ; "Martin Gainty" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 8:39 PM
> Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Fired was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]
> 
> 
> Where do you work!? I am going to notify your boss of you disgruntle
> behavior on this list!!! No wonder why we have H1Bs. They never
> complain and just take their 2 cents an hour.
> 
> And I mean that in the best possible way :p ;-) :D
> 
> Brandon
> 
> On 7/6/05, Martin Gainty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Unfortunately in the US you can be canned for being too old or having the
> > wrong religious views
> > we have a ton of laws on the books but they are unenforced
> > My question is how do I (an older engineer with politically incorrect 
> > views)
> > get work in Germany
> > Vielen Danke,
> > Martin-
> > ----- Original Message -
> > From: "Christian Bollmeyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "Struts Users Mailing List" 
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 7:31 PM
> > Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Fired was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations 
> > [OT]
> >
> >
> > > On Wednesday 06 July 2005 19:48, Rick Reumann wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > >> Daniel Perry wrote the following on 7/6/2005 12:49 PM:
> > >> > Hah, it's the business use of web/email they fire you for. Go read
> > >> > your terms of employment, and the reference to "IT acceptible use
> > >> > policy" that you inadvertantly agreed to.
> > >>
> > >> (the below has nothing to do with Mark)..
> > >>
> > >> For the record, I'm not against an employer firing an employee for
> > >> 'whatever' reason they deem fit. If they don't like the way you wear
> > >> your hair, I think they should have the right to fire you if they
> > >> want. (The public also has a right to know about it based on the use
> > >> of the press etc).
> > >
> > > Now though I'm clearly not in the position to get fired anytime soon,
> > > I still think as long as I'm doing my job right and don't blame the
> > > company I work for, what I do in my leisure time is not my
> > > employer's business. Including my haircut, age, religious beliefs
> > > or whatever. What I sell are my skills, work performance and
> > > last but not least a significant part of my lifetime, but neither
> > > my soul nor my private life. In Germany, it's not quite that easy
> > > to get rid of someone who, lets say,  just got older because of
> > > working for you. And I think this is just. Stealing silver spoons,
> > > including deliberately breaking company rules in terms of
> > > e-mail usage and the like is another issue.
> > >
> > >> Personally, if I owned a company and someone was using the company
> > >> email domain name to post on sites such as "swingers" or
> > >> "transvestitepride," I think I should have right to terminate his or
> > >> her's employment. What I have a problem with is ...
> > >>
> > >> 1) The inconsistency in what is protected. For example everyone today
> > >> talks about "tolerance." But what does this mean? What it ends up
> > >> meaning is "There are no moral absolutes so the only valid belief
> > >> system protected is one that doesn't espouse moral judgments." But
> > >> what about being tolerant to the idea that someone might feel
> > >> otherwise?  Why is state sanctioned secularism the only valid
> > >> religion (and yes secularism is a belief system - a religion). It's
> > >> sort of funny that those whom often claim to be the most 'tolerant'
> > >> are of

Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]

[Martin Gainty]

Brandon-
Keeping in mind that No inductive generalisations can qualify from these 
premises
The last time I checked The price for the aforementioned is pegged at 
1c/hour

which by my calculations qualifies as 'outsourcing the outsourcers'
This is the MSRP ..Your mileage may of course vary depending on your usage 
habits..

Viel Gluck,
M-

- Original Message - 
From: "Brandon Goodin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Struts Users Mailing List" ; "Martin Gainty" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 8:39 PM
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Fired was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]


Where do you work!? I am going to notify your boss of you disgruntle
behavior on this list!!! No wonder why we have H1Bs. They never
complain and just take their 2 cents an hour.

And I mean that in the best possible way :p ;-) :D

Brandon

On 7/6/05, Martin Gainty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Unfortunately in the US you can be canned for being too old or having the
wrong religious views
we have a ton of laws on the books but they are unenforced
My question is how do I (an older engineer with politically incorrect 
views)

get work in Germany
Vielen Danke,
Martin-
- Original Message -
From: "Christian Bollmeyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Struts Users Mailing List" 
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 7:31 PM
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Fired was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations 
[OT]



> On Wednesday 06 July 2005 19:48, Rick Reumann wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
>> Daniel Perry wrote the following on 7/6/2005 12:49 PM:
>> > Hah, it's the business use of web/email they fire you for. Go read
>> > your terms of employment, and the reference to "IT acceptible use
>> > policy" that you inadvertantly agreed to.
>>
>> (the below has nothing to do with Mark)..
>>
>> For the record, I'm not against an employer firing an employee for
>> 'whatever' reason they deem fit. If they don't like the way you wear
>> your hair, I think they should have the right to fire you if they
>> want. (The public also has a right to know about it based on the use
>> of the press etc).
>
> Now though I'm clearly not in the position to get fired anytime soon,
> I still think as long as I'm doing my job right and don't blame the
> company I work for, what I do in my leisure time is not my
> employer's business. Including my haircut, age, religious beliefs
> or whatever. What I sell are my skills, work performance and
> last but not least a significant part of my lifetime, but neither
> my soul nor my private life. In Germany, it's not quite that easy
> to get rid of someone who, lets say,  just got older because of
> working for you. And I think this is just. Stealing silver spoons,
> including deliberately breaking company rules in terms of
> e-mail usage and the like is another issue.
>
>> Personally, if I owned a company and someone was using the company
>> email domain name to post on sites such as "swingers" or
>> "transvestitepride," I think I should have right to terminate his or
>> her's employment. What I have a problem with is ...
>>
>> 1) The inconsistency in what is protected. For example everyone today
>> talks about "tolerance." But what does this mean? What it ends up
>> meaning is "There are no moral absolutes so the only valid belief
>> system protected is one that doesn't espouse moral judgments." But
>> what about being tolerant to the idea that someone might feel
>> otherwise?  Why is state sanctioned secularism the only valid
>> religion (and yes secularism is a belief system - a religion). It's
>> sort of funny that those whom often claim to be the most 'tolerant'
>> are often the most vicious when it comes to attacking someone that
>> disagrees with their view of "tolerance." There are many views I
>> could state that would get me labeled as being 'intolerant,' yet,
>> somehow it's supposedly not offensive to state "All views on X,Y,orZ
>> are equally acceptable." To me, and many others, that later position
>> can be considered extremely offensive. Why is only one view (secular
>> humanism) considered 'non offensive' but other religious views are
>> some how bigoted and intolerant. It's pure hypocrisy.
>
> In Germany, in a major part thanks to the US  (I mean it!), religious
> freedom, for instance,  is granted to everyone in our Constitutional
> Law (Art. 4 GG). Getting fired just because of one's religious views
> is impossible by law. So I, who believes in Jesus Christ as my personal
> saviour and 

Re: Struts Books Recommendations

[gvanmatre]

> On 6/30/05, John Henry Xu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I would say
> > Jakarta Struts Cookbook
> > Struts Recipes
> > as the books.
> 
> Yes, both of these have great coverage of 1.2.x, and the best part is
> that they don't overlap.
> 
> These two are also excellent choices for anyone who is already working
> in Struts. They don't cover the basics, only the stuff you need to
> know once you've gotten started.
> 
> For the basics, my all-time favorite is still "Jakarta Struts for Dummies". 
> 

My all-time favorite is "Struts in Action" :-)

Gary

> If anyone is ordering Struts books online, please consider shopping
> through the Apache Bookstore:
> 
> * http://opensource.atlassian.com/confluence/oss/display/BOOKS/Home
> 
> -Ted.
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 



-
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Re: Struts Books Recommendations

[Ted Husted]

On 6/30/05, John Henry Xu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I would say
> Jakarta Struts Cookbook
> Struts Recipes
> as the books.

Yes, both of these have great coverage of 1.2.x, and the best part is
that they don't overlap.

These two are also excellent choices for anyone who is already working
in Struts. They don't cover the basics, only the stuff you need to
know once you've gotten started.

For the basics, my all-time favorite is still "Jakarta Struts for Dummies". 

If anyone is ordering Struts books online, please consider shopping
through the Apache Bookstore:

* http://opensource.atlassian.com/confluence/oss/display/BOOKS/Home

-Ted.

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Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]

[Martin Gainty]

Good Morning Brian:

In a global economy keep in mind that a business can locate anywhere..
Tying up resources in a situation such as what you described could be 
interpreted (in a rather loose sense) as 'anti-business'
and *might* force the company to look at other locations which provide more 
'business-friendly' environments.
Please feel free to contact me offline as this topic can be easily construed 
as 'O/T'.


Best,
M-
- Original Message - 
From: "Brian Lee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 10:39 PM
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Fired was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]


Actually, in the US we have laws against age discrimination or 
discrimination based on race, religion, creed or nationality. These are 
termed "protected groups" under US labor law. If you were fired for one of 
these reasons, gather up some evidence and sue your way to wealth in the 
civil courts.


BAL


From: "Martin Gainty" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: "Martin Gainty" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Struts Users Mailing List" 
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Fired was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations 
[OT]

Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 20:14:51 -0400

Unfortunately in the US you can be canned for being too old or having the 
wrong religious views

we have a ton of laws on the books but they are unenforced
My question is how do I (an older engineer with politically incorrect 
views) get work in Germany

Vielen Danke,
Martin-
- Original Message - From: "Christian Bollmeyer" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Struts Users Mailing List" 
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 7:31 PM
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Fired was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations 
[OT]




On Wednesday 06 July 2005 19:48, Rick Reumann wrote:

Hi,


Daniel Perry wrote the following on 7/6/2005 12:49 PM:
> Hah, it's the business use of web/email they fire you for. Go read
> your terms of employment, and the reference to "IT acceptible use
> policy" that you inadvertantly agreed to.

(the below has nothing to do with Mark)..

For the record, I'm not against an employer firing an employee for
'whatever' reason they deem fit. If they don't like the way you wear
your hair, I think they should have the right to fire you if they
want. (The public also has a right to know about it based on the use
of the press etc).


Now though I'm clearly not in the position to get fired anytime soon,
I still think as long as I'm doing my job right and don't blame the
company I work for, what I do in my leisure time is not my
employer's business. Including my haircut, age, religious beliefs
or whatever. What I sell are my skills, work performance and
last but not least a significant part of my lifetime, but neither
my soul nor my private life. In Germany, it's not quite that easy
to get rid of someone who, lets say,  just got older because of
working for you. And I think this is just. Stealing silver spoons,
including deliberately breaking company rules in terms of
e-mail usage and the like is another issue.


Personally, if I owned a company and someone was using the company
email domain name to post on sites such as "swingers" or
"transvestitepride," I think I should have right to terminate his or
her's employment. What I have a problem with is ...

1) The inconsistency in what is protected. For example everyone today
talks about "tolerance." But what does this mean? What it ends up
meaning is "There are no moral absolutes so the only valid belief
system protected is one that doesn't espouse moral judgments." But
what about being tolerant to the idea that someone might feel
otherwise?  Why is state sanctioned secularism the only valid
religion (and yes secularism is a belief system - a religion). It's
sort of funny that those whom often claim to be the most 'tolerant'
are often the most vicious when it comes to attacking someone that
disagrees with their view of "tolerance." There are many views I
could state that would get me labeled as being 'intolerant,' yet,
somehow it's supposedly not offensive to state "All views on X,Y,orZ
are equally acceptable." To me, and many others, that later position
can be considered extremely offensive. Why is only one view (secular
humanism) considered 'non offensive' but other religious views are
some how bigoted and intolerant. It's pure hypocrisy.


In Germany, in a major part thanks to the US  (I mean it!), religious
freedom, for instance,  is granted to everyone in our Constitutional
Law (Art. 4 GG). Getting fired just because of one's religious views
is impossible by law. So I, who believes in Jesus Christ as my personal
saviour and follows the Bible as his above-all-worldly-wisdom guide
can happily work together with 

Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]

[Brian Lee]

Actually, in the US we have laws against age discrimination or 
discrimination based on race, religion, creed or nationality. These are 
termed "protected groups" under US labor law. If you were fired for one of 
these reasons, gather up some evidence and sue your way to wealth in the 
civil courts.


BAL


From: "Martin Gainty" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: "Martin Gainty" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Struts Users Mailing List" 
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Fired was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]
Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 20:14:51 -0400

Unfortunately in the US you can be canned for being too old or having the 
wrong religious views

we have a ton of laws on the books but they are unenforced
My question is how do I (an older engineer with politically incorrect 
views) get work in Germany

Vielen Danke,
Martin-
- Original Message - From: "Christian Bollmeyer" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Struts Users Mailing List" 
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 7:31 PM
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Fired was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]



On Wednesday 06 July 2005 19:48, Rick Reumann wrote:

Hi,


Daniel Perry wrote the following on 7/6/2005 12:49 PM:
> Hah, it's the business use of web/email they fire you for. Go read
> your terms of employment, and the reference to "IT acceptible use
> policy" that you inadvertantly agreed to.

(the below has nothing to do with Mark)..

For the record, I'm not against an employer firing an employee for
'whatever' reason they deem fit. If they don't like the way you wear
your hair, I think they should have the right to fire you if they
want. (The public also has a right to know about it based on the use
of the press etc).


Now though I'm clearly not in the position to get fired anytime soon,
I still think as long as I'm doing my job right and don't blame the
company I work for, what I do in my leisure time is not my
employer's business. Including my haircut, age, religious beliefs
or whatever. What I sell are my skills, work performance and
last but not least a significant part of my lifetime, but neither
my soul nor my private life. In Germany, it's not quite that easy
to get rid of someone who, lets say,  just got older because of
working for you. And I think this is just. Stealing silver spoons,
including deliberately breaking company rules in terms of
e-mail usage and the like is another issue.


Personally, if I owned a company and someone was using the company
email domain name to post on sites such as "swingers" or
"transvestitepride," I think I should have right to terminate his or
her's employment. What I have a problem with is ...

1) The inconsistency in what is protected. For example everyone today
talks about "tolerance." But what does this mean? What it ends up
meaning is "There are no moral absolutes so the only valid belief
system protected is one that doesn't espouse moral judgments." But
what about being tolerant to the idea that someone might feel
otherwise?  Why is state sanctioned secularism the only valid
religion (and yes secularism is a belief system - a religion). It's
sort of funny that those whom often claim to be the most 'tolerant'
are often the most vicious when it comes to attacking someone that
disagrees with their view of "tolerance." There are many views I
could state that would get me labeled as being 'intolerant,' yet,
somehow it's supposedly not offensive to state "All views on X,Y,orZ
are equally acceptable." To me, and many others, that later position
can be considered extremely offensive. Why is only one view (secular
humanism) considered 'non offensive' but other religious views are
some how bigoted and intolerant. It's pure hypocrisy.


In Germany, in a major part thanks to the US  (I mean it!), religious
freedom, for instance,  is granted to everyone in our Constitutional
Law (Art. 4 GG). Getting fired just because of one's religious views
is impossible by law. So I, who believes in Jesus Christ as my personal
saviour and follows the Bible as his above-all-worldly-wisdom guide
can happily work together with Hindus and common atheists, in-
cluding my boss. I can even tell them if they're on the road to
eternal doom, the same as they may tell me I'm ridiciously wrong,
and still keep my job. And in fact, the Bible is quite intolerant when
confronted with modern secularism, but what's my choice? As
for general opinions and secular beliefs, we have Art. 5 GG
which grants freedom of speech. So there's no need for
hypocrisy here at all. On the other hand, I definitely never
would use a company e-mail address for anything other
than business communication, and whoever deliberately
chooses to do otherwise may just have to face the fruits
of his daun

Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]

[Brandon Goodin]

Where do you work!? I am going to notify your boss of you disgruntle
behavior on this list!!! No wonder why we have H1Bs. They never
complain and just take their 2 cents an hour.

And I mean that in the best possible way :p ;-) :D

Brandon

On 7/6/05, Martin Gainty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Unfortunately in the US you can be canned for being too old or having the
> wrong religious views
> we have a ton of laws on the books but they are unenforced
> My question is how do I (an older engineer with politically incorrect views)
> get work in Germany
> Vielen Danke,
> Martin-
> - Original Message -
> From: "Christian Bollmeyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Struts Users Mailing List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 7:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Fired was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]
> 
> 
> > On Wednesday 06 July 2005 19:48, Rick Reumann wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> >> Daniel Perry wrote the following on 7/6/2005 12:49 PM:
> >> > Hah, it's the business use of web/email they fire you for. Go read
> >> > your terms of employment, and the reference to "IT acceptible use
> >> > policy" that you inadvertantly agreed to.
> >>
> >> (the below has nothing to do with Mark)..
> >>
> >> For the record, I'm not against an employer firing an employee for
> >> 'whatever' reason they deem fit. If they don't like the way you wear
> >> your hair, I think they should have the right to fire you if they
> >> want. (The public also has a right to know about it based on the use
> >> of the press etc).
> >
> > Now though I'm clearly not in the position to get fired anytime soon,
> > I still think as long as I'm doing my job right and don't blame the
> > company I work for, what I do in my leisure time is not my
> > employer's business. Including my haircut, age, religious beliefs
> > or whatever. What I sell are my skills, work performance and
> > last but not least a significant part of my lifetime, but neither
> > my soul nor my private life. In Germany, it's not quite that easy
> > to get rid of someone who, lets say,  just got older because of
> > working for you. And I think this is just. Stealing silver spoons,
> > including deliberately breaking company rules in terms of
> > e-mail usage and the like is another issue.
> >
> >> Personally, if I owned a company and someone was using the company
> >> email domain name to post on sites such as "swingers" or
> >> "transvestitepride," I think I should have right to terminate his or
> >> her's employment. What I have a problem with is ...
> >>
> >> 1) The inconsistency in what is protected. For example everyone today
> >> talks about "tolerance." But what does this mean? What it ends up
> >> meaning is "There are no moral absolutes so the only valid belief
> >> system protected is one that doesn't espouse moral judgments." But
> >> what about being tolerant to the idea that someone might feel
> >> otherwise?  Why is state sanctioned secularism the only valid
> >> religion (and yes secularism is a belief system - a religion). It's
> >> sort of funny that those whom often claim to be the most 'tolerant'
> >> are often the most vicious when it comes to attacking someone that
> >> disagrees with their view of "tolerance." There are many views I
> >> could state that would get me labeled as being 'intolerant,' yet,
> >> somehow it's supposedly not offensive to state "All views on X,Y,orZ
> >> are equally acceptable." To me, and many others, that later position
> >> can be considered extremely offensive. Why is only one view (secular
> >> humanism) considered 'non offensive' but other religious views are
> >> some how bigoted and intolerant. It's pure hypocrisy.
> >
> > In Germany, in a major part thanks to the US  (I mean it!), religious
> > freedom, for instance,  is granted to everyone in our Constitutional
> > Law (Art. 4 GG). Getting fired just because of one's religious views
> > is impossible by law. So I, who believes in Jesus Christ as my personal
> > saviour and follows the Bible as his above-all-worldly-wisdom guide
> > can happily work together with Hindus and common atheists, in-
> > cluding my boss. I can even tell them if they're on the road to
> > eternal doom, the same as they may tell me I'm ridiciously wrong,
> > and still keep m

Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]

[Martin Gainty]

Unfortunately in the US you can be canned for being too old or having the 
wrong religious views

we have a ton of laws on the books but they are unenforced
My question is how do I (an older engineer with politically incorrect views) 
get work in Germany

Vielen Danke,
Martin-
- Original Message - 
From: "Christian Bollmeyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Struts Users Mailing List" 
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 7:31 PM
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]



On Wednesday 06 July 2005 19:48, Rick Reumann wrote:

Hi,


Daniel Perry wrote the following on 7/6/2005 12:49 PM:
> Hah, it's the business use of web/email they fire you for. Go read
> your terms of employment, and the reference to "IT acceptible use
> policy" that you inadvertantly agreed to.

(the below has nothing to do with Mark)..

For the record, I'm not against an employer firing an employee for
'whatever' reason they deem fit. If they don't like the way you wear
your hair, I think they should have the right to fire you if they
want. (The public also has a right to know about it based on the use
of the press etc).


Now though I'm clearly not in the position to get fired anytime soon,
I still think as long as I'm doing my job right and don't blame the
company I work for, what I do in my leisure time is not my
employer's business. Including my haircut, age, religious beliefs
or whatever. What I sell are my skills, work performance and
last but not least a significant part of my lifetime, but neither
my soul nor my private life. In Germany, it's not quite that easy
to get rid of someone who, lets say,  just got older because of
working for you. And I think this is just. Stealing silver spoons,
including deliberately breaking company rules in terms of
e-mail usage and the like is another issue.


Personally, if I owned a company and someone was using the company
email domain name to post on sites such as "swingers" or
"transvestitepride," I think I should have right to terminate his or
her's employment. What I have a problem with is ...

1) The inconsistency in what is protected. For example everyone today
talks about "tolerance." But what does this mean? What it ends up
meaning is "There are no moral absolutes so the only valid belief
system protected is one that doesn't espouse moral judgments." But
what about being tolerant to the idea that someone might feel
otherwise?  Why is state sanctioned secularism the only valid
religion (and yes secularism is a belief system - a religion). It's
sort of funny that those whom often claim to be the most 'tolerant'
are often the most vicious when it comes to attacking someone that
disagrees with their view of "tolerance." There are many views I
could state that would get me labeled as being 'intolerant,' yet,
somehow it's supposedly not offensive to state "All views on X,Y,orZ
are equally acceptable." To me, and many others, that later position
can be considered extremely offensive. Why is only one view (secular
humanism) considered 'non offensive' but other religious views are
some how bigoted and intolerant. It's pure hypocrisy.


In Germany, in a major part thanks to the US  (I mean it!), religious
freedom, for instance,  is granted to everyone in our Constitutional
Law (Art. 4 GG). Getting fired just because of one's religious views
is impossible by law. So I, who believes in Jesus Christ as my personal
saviour and follows the Bible as his above-all-worldly-wisdom guide
can happily work together with Hindus and common atheists, in-
cluding my boss. I can even tell them if they're on the road to
eternal doom, the same as they may tell me I'm ridiciously wrong,
and still keep my job. And in fact, the Bible is quite intolerant when
confronted with modern secularism, but what's my choice? As
for general opinions and secular beliefs, we have Art. 5 GG
which grants freedom of speech. So there's no need for
hypocrisy here at all. On the other hand, I definitely never
would use a company e-mail address for anything other
than business communication, and whoever deliberately
chooses to do otherwise may just have to face the fruits
of his dauntness. Or his dumbness, if you will.


2) Someone taking the time on the list to 'complain' to someone's
employer. Sure you have the right to do so, but I think it's lame.


Quality never goes out of style, but good manners may. Possibly
a matter of education and attitude. I won't judge.

-- Christian.

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Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]

[Brandon Goodin]

A Christian named Christian... that's original :)

On 7/6/05, Christian Bollmeyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wednesday 06 July 2005 19:48, Rick Reumann wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> > Daniel Perry wrote the following on 7/6/2005 12:49 PM:
> > > Hah, it's the business use of web/email they fire you for. Go read
> > > your terms of employment, and the reference to "IT acceptible use
> > > policy" that you inadvertantly agreed to.
> >
> > (the below has nothing to do with Mark)..
> >
> > For the record, I'm not against an employer firing an employee for
> > 'whatever' reason they deem fit. If they don't like the way you wear
> > your hair, I think they should have the right to fire you if they
> > want. (The public also has a right to know about it based on the use
> > of the press etc).
> 
> Now though I'm clearly not in the position to get fired anytime soon,
> I still think as long as I'm doing my job right and don't blame the
> company I work for, what I do in my leisure time is not my
> employer's business. Including my haircut, age, religious beliefs
> or whatever. What I sell are my skills, work performance and
> last but not least a significant part of my lifetime, but neither
> my soul nor my private life. In Germany, it's not quite that easy
> to get rid of someone who, lets say,  just got older because of
> working for you. And I think this is just. Stealing silver spoons,
> including deliberately breaking company rules in terms of
> e-mail usage and the like is another issue.
> 
> > Personally, if I owned a company and someone was using the company
> > email domain name to post on sites such as "swingers" or
> > "transvestitepride," I think I should have right to terminate his or
> > her's employment. What I have a problem with is ...
> >
> > 1) The inconsistency in what is protected. For example everyone today
> > talks about "tolerance." But what does this mean? What it ends up
> > meaning is "There are no moral absolutes so the only valid belief
> > system protected is one that doesn't espouse moral judgments." But
> > what about being tolerant to the idea that someone might feel
> > otherwise?  Why is state sanctioned secularism the only valid
> > religion (and yes secularism is a belief system - a religion). It's
> > sort of funny that those whom often claim to be the most 'tolerant'
> > are often the most vicious when it comes to attacking someone that
> > disagrees with their view of "tolerance." There are many views I
> > could state that would get me labeled as being 'intolerant,' yet,
> > somehow it's supposedly not offensive to state "All views on X,Y,orZ
> > are equally acceptable." To me, and many others, that later position
> > can be considered extremely offensive. Why is only one view (secular
> > humanism) considered 'non offensive' but other religious views are
> > some how bigoted and intolerant. It's pure hypocrisy.
> 
> In Germany, in a major part thanks to the US  (I mean it!), religious
> freedom, for instance,  is granted to everyone in our Constitutional
> Law (Art. 4 GG). Getting fired just because of one's religious views
> is impossible by law. So I, who believes in Jesus Christ as my personal
> saviour and follows the Bible as his above-all-worldly-wisdom guide
> can happily work together with Hindus and common atheists, in-
> cluding my boss. I can even tell them if they're on the road to
> eternal doom, the same as they may tell me I'm ridiciously wrong,
> and still keep my job. And in fact, the Bible is quite intolerant when
> confronted with modern secularism, but what's my choice? As
> for general opinions and secular beliefs, we have Art. 5 GG
> which grants freedom of speech. So there's no need for
> hypocrisy here at all. On the other hand, I definitely never
> would use a company e-mail address for anything other
> than business communication, and whoever deliberately
> chooses to do otherwise may just have to face the fruits
> of his dauntness. Or his dumbness, if you will.
> 
> > 2) Someone taking the time on the list to 'complain' to someone's
> > employer. Sure you have the right to do so, but I think it's lame.
> 
> Quality never goes out of style, but good manners may. Possibly
> a matter of education and attitude. I won't judge.
> 
> -- Christian.
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
>

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Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]

[Christian Bollmeyer]

On Wednesday 06 July 2005 19:48, Rick Reumann wrote:

Hi,

> Daniel Perry wrote the following on 7/6/2005 12:49 PM:
> > Hah, it's the business use of web/email they fire you for. Go read
> > your terms of employment, and the reference to "IT acceptible use
> > policy" that you inadvertantly agreed to.
>
> (the below has nothing to do with Mark)..
>
> For the record, I'm not against an employer firing an employee for
> 'whatever' reason they deem fit. If they don't like the way you wear
> your hair, I think they should have the right to fire you if they
> want. (The public also has a right to know about it based on the use
> of the press etc).

Now though I'm clearly not in the position to get fired anytime soon,
I still think as long as I'm doing my job right and don't blame the 
company I work for, what I do in my leisure time is not my
employer's business. Including my haircut, age, religious beliefs
or whatever. What I sell are my skills, work performance and
last but not least a significant part of my lifetime, but neither
my soul nor my private life. In Germany, it's not quite that easy
to get rid of someone who, lets say,  just got older because of
working for you. And I think this is just. Stealing silver spoons,
including deliberately breaking company rules in terms of
e-mail usage and the like is another issue.

> Personally, if I owned a company and someone was using the company
> email domain name to post on sites such as "swingers" or
> "transvestitepride," I think I should have right to terminate his or
> her's employment. What I have a problem with is ...
>
> 1) The inconsistency in what is protected. For example everyone today
> talks about "tolerance." But what does this mean? What it ends up
> meaning is "There are no moral absolutes so the only valid belief
> system protected is one that doesn't espouse moral judgments." But
> what about being tolerant to the idea that someone might feel
> otherwise?  Why is state sanctioned secularism the only valid
> religion (and yes secularism is a belief system - a religion). It's
> sort of funny that those whom often claim to be the most 'tolerant'
> are often the most vicious when it comes to attacking someone that
> disagrees with their view of "tolerance." There are many views I
> could state that would get me labeled as being 'intolerant,' yet,
> somehow it's supposedly not offensive to state "All views on X,Y,orZ
> are equally acceptable." To me, and many others, that later position
> can be considered extremely offensive. Why is only one view (secular
> humanism) considered 'non offensive' but other religious views are
> some how bigoted and intolerant. It's pure hypocrisy.

In Germany, in a major part thanks to the US  (I mean it!), religious 
freedom, for instance,  is granted to everyone in our Constitutional
Law (Art. 4 GG). Getting fired just because of one's religious views
is impossible by law. So I, who believes in Jesus Christ as my personal
saviour and follows the Bible as his above-all-worldly-wisdom guide
can happily work together with Hindus and common atheists, in-
cluding my boss. I can even tell them if they're on the road to
eternal doom, the same as they may tell me I'm ridiciously wrong,
and still keep my job. And in fact, the Bible is quite intolerant when
confronted with modern secularism, but what's my choice? As
for general opinions and secular beliefs, we have Art. 5 GG
which grants freedom of speech. So there's no need for
hypocrisy here at all. On the other hand, I definitely never
would use a company e-mail address for anything other
than business communication, and whoever deliberately
chooses to do otherwise may just have to face the fruits
of his dauntness. Or his dumbness, if you will.

> 2) Someone taking the time on the list to 'complain' to someone's
> employer. Sure you have the right to do so, but I think it's lame.

Quality never goes out of style, but good manners may. Possibly
a matter of education and attitude. I won't judge.

-- Christian.

-
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Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations

[Brandon Goodin]

Would all you shad up and get back to talking about how dead struts 1.x is :)

Long live Shale and JSF!!!

Brandon

On 7/6/05, Nick Andros <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> talk about an OT thread!
> 
> > 1) The inconsistency in what is protected. For example everyone today
> > talks about "tolerance." But what does this mean? What it ends up
> > meaning is "There are no moral absolutes so the only valid belief system
> > protected is one that doesn't espouse moral judgments." But what about
> > being tolerant to the idea that someone might feel otherwise?  Why is
> > state sanctioned secularism the only valid religion (and yes secularism
> > is a belief system - a religion). It's sort of funny that those whom
> > often claim to be the most 'tolerant' are often the most vicious when it
> > comes to attacking someone that disagrees with their view of
> > "tolerance." There are many views I could state that would get me
> > labeled as being 'intolerant,' yet, somehow it's supposedly not
> > offensive to state "All views on X,Y,orZ are equally acceptable." To me,
> > and many others, that later position can be considered extremely
> > offensive. Why is only one view (secular humanism) considered 'non
> > offensive' but other religious views are some how bigoted and
> > intolerant. It's pure hypocrisy.
> >
> 
> The key difference here as I see it is how far some people want to
> take these "disagreements."  For many conservatives (granted, this is
> a generalization here... so let's say "many conservative politicians"
> instead), it is not enough to simply state "I find Y and Z to be
> offensive" but they often want to take it to the next level and say
> "not only are Y and Z offensive, X is the only legitimate option and
> we should make Y and Z illegal."
> 
> Consider if I was a vegan (I'm not) and you're a meat-eater.  Let's
> say that I'm passionate about it being morally offensive to kill and
> consume animals.  It's entirely my right to believe that and state my
> opinion to you and anyone else I can find to try and spread my belief
> system onto others (as it is your right to do likewise).  However, it
> would be ridiculous for me to try to pass legislation or, God forbid,
> a constitutional amendment stating that meat consumption is illegal.
> It would be wrong for me to try to impose my belief system on people
> who have differing, but still legitimate, beliefs.
> 
> To me, "tolerance" doesn't imply that I have to agree with what
> everyone else says or does - it just means that I am willing to allow
> them to believe what they want to believe.
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
>

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Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations

[Nick Andros]

talk about an OT thread!

> 1) The inconsistency in what is protected. For example everyone today
> talks about "tolerance." But what does this mean? What it ends up
> meaning is "There are no moral absolutes so the only valid belief system
> protected is one that doesn't espouse moral judgments." But what about
> being tolerant to the idea that someone might feel otherwise?  Why is
> state sanctioned secularism the only valid religion (and yes secularism
> is a belief system - a religion). It's sort of funny that those whom
> often claim to be the most 'tolerant' are often the most vicious when it
> comes to attacking someone that disagrees with their view of
> "tolerance." There are many views I could state that would get me
> labeled as being 'intolerant,' yet, somehow it's supposedly not
> offensive to state "All views on X,Y,orZ are equally acceptable." To me,
> and many others, that later position can be considered extremely
> offensive. Why is only one view (secular humanism) considered 'non
> offensive' but other religious views are some how bigoted and
> intolerant. It's pure hypocrisy.
> 

The key difference here as I see it is how far some people want to
take these "disagreements."  For many conservatives (granted, this is
a generalization here... so let's say "many conservative politicians"
instead), it is not enough to simply state "I find Y and Z to be
offensive" but they often want to take it to the next level and say
"not only are Y and Z offensive, X is the only legitimate option and
we should make Y and Z illegal."

Consider if I was a vegan (I'm not) and you're a meat-eater.  Let's
say that I'm passionate about it being morally offensive to kill and
consume animals.  It's entirely my right to believe that and state my
opinion to you and anyone else I can find to try and spread my belief
system onto others (as it is your right to do likewise).  However, it
would be ridiculous for me to try to pass legislation or, God forbid,
a constitutional amendment stating that meat consumption is illegal. 
It would be wrong for me to try to impose my belief system on people
who have differing, but still legitimate, beliefs.

To me, "tolerance" doesn't imply that I have to agree with what
everyone else says or does - it just means that I am willing to allow
them to believe what they want to believe.

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Re: [OT] Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations

[Adam Hardy]

Bob,
if you didn't realise, Mark had gone into voluntary exile about 2 years 
ago (on the advice of the 'list elders' I believe).


His re-appearance in such a fashion was surprising (and slightly weird - 
I have no idea why he resubscribed unless it was just to play the troll. 
He didn't ask any struts questions, I don't think).



Adam


[EMAIL PROTECTED] on 06/07/05 19:58, wrote:
[snip]

So, I want thank all those who didn't let the "shock and awe" of
Mark's remarks stop them from speaking up. And, if Mark really was
fired, was there any other way to make Mark accountable for his
behavior? Right now, I can't think of any, but I'd be happy hear
suggestions that *really* would have worked with Mark.

Regards,

Bob Harris



--- Daniel Perry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



Hah, it's the business use of web/email they fire you for. Go read
your terms of employment, and the reference to "IT acceptible use
policy" that you inadvertantly agreed to.

There have been cases in the uk where they have done this as it's
much cheaper to hunt out employees who have sent dodgy emails/had a
sexual advert popup/etc than to actually pay people redundancy.

Note that i agree it's a bit harsh to get the guy fired.  Still,
who really wants to work for a company that will fire you over a
comment you make on a mailing list?

Daniel.



-Original Message- From: Rick Reumann
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 06 July 2005 17:42 To: Struts
Users Mailing List Subject: Fired was...Re: Struts Books


Recommendations



Mark Galbreath wrote the following on 7/6/2005


10:19 AM:


Thanks to whomever emailed last weeks nonsense


thread to the Director


of the Board of Elections.  It made me look like


a racist and I was


fired this morning.  The State is also looking


into whether my use of


an official email address for that discussion is


in violation of state


law.  You did your work well, you low-life


bastard.


Signing off Mark



Whoever did send something is such a loser it's


not even funny. At least


step forward and admit who you are. I constantly


here bigotted stuff on


mailing lists and forums, yet I don't go running


like a little baby to


find out their employeer so I can "tattle" on them


like a 3rd grader.


I'd much rather the internet be open for a free


exchange of ideas


(regardless of whether we agree with them or not)


without having to fear


someone is going to hunt down who I am and state


my comments to my


employeer or wife.

I can't believe I now have to watch what I say on


this mailing list.


Guess I will be making up a gmail account that


doesn't use my real name


just to help protect myself from losers like this


person.


It's sad the same thing happened to a guy working


at Allstate who


happened to post that he felt homosexulaity was


wrong on a non-company


related website


http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44961


The irony is I guess Mark should have said how


"The US is so evil for


being in Iraq" or "How he hates pro-life


Christians" and maybe he would


have gotten a promotion. Or better yet, what if he


was gay and posted


all over some homosexual website about how he


wanted to do all these


sexual things with some other males and farm


animals, and I as his


employeer, found out about it and found it was


offensive so I fired him.


I will bet you *anything* that the ACLU would be


on my back so fast it


wouldn't even be funny and I as the employeer


would lose my job for


firing him! I just love the double-standards in


the U.S. today.  A guy


can get state funding from the National Endowment


of the Arts by putting


a crucifix in a jar of urine and calling it 'art',


yet at the same time


people get fired for off-color comments they make


on a mailing list?



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Re: Struts Books Recommendations

[James Mitchell]

You are kidding right?


--
James Mitchell
Software Engineer / Open Source Evangelist
Consulting / Mentoring / Freelance
EdgeTech, Inc.
http://www.edgetechservices.net/
678.910.8017
AIM:   jmitchtx
Yahoo: jmitchtx
MSN:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Skype: jmitchtx



On Jul 6, 2005, at 10:19 AM, Mark Galbreath wrote:


Thanks to whomever emailed last weeks nonsense thread to the Director
of the Board of Elections.  It made me look like a racist and I was
fired this morning.  The State is also looking into whether my use of
an official email address for that discussion is in violation of state
law.  You did your work well, you low-life bastard.

Signing off
Mark

On 6/30/05, Thai Dang Vu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


3) "Struts! It's not just for H-1Bs!"

So, I can get a H1B just by learning Struts and use it decently? :)




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RE: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations

[rah]

Just to add another perspective.

I've been a Struts "list lurker" for about 3 years and 
have enjoyed reading the posts. Programmers are
often crazy and outrageous (which gives us our "charm")
, but I had a problem with Mark's remarks about 
East Indians being "faggots".

As a guy who has been in IT for the last 15 years, I
find myself being directly and negatively affected by
the outsourcing of programming and IT jobs to other
countries especially India and Mexico. Given the nature
of business, the government will need to act in a way 
that affects everyone at the same time, to balence
the situation, (probably through some kind of system of 
tarriffs). Otherwise, I think our country will be hurt badly
now and in the future.

I am very resentful of the outsourcing situation.

But, as an African-American, I was more bothered by
Mark's remarks. While it wasn't directed at me, being
neither East Indian nor gay, I was really disturbed by
Mark's joking remarks. I can think of times 10 years ago
when whites would make racist remarks about blacks,
in the presence of blacks and we blacks would have to
find the courage and strength to tell the joke teller to
stop. Fortunately, as I was composing a response,
Frank Z. posted his initial response, letting Mark know
he had crossed the line.

I'm not a great believer in political correctness, as I've
seen that belief be used to suppress all offensive 
expression. But the downside of attacking the character
of the target of your anger is that they get angry or hurt
and stop participating. I thought the idea behind the 
open-source/open-license movement was to get everybody
involved.

So, I want thank all those who didn't let the "shock and awe"
of Mark's remarks stop them from speaking up. And, if
Mark really was fired, was there any other way to make Mark 
accountable for his behavior? Right now, I can't think of
any, but I'd be happy hear suggestions that *really* would
have worked with Mark.

Regards,

Bob Harris



--- Daniel Perry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> Hah, it's the business use of web/email they fire
> you for. Go read your
> terms of employment, and the reference to "IT
> acceptible use policy" that
> you inadvertantly agreed to.
> 
> There have been cases in the uk where they have done
> this as it's much
> cheaper to hunt out employees who have sent dodgy
> emails/had a sexual advert
> popup/etc than to actually pay people redundancy.
> 
> Note that i agree it's a bit harsh to get the guy
> fired.  Still, who really
> wants to work for a company that will fire you over
> a comment you make on a
> mailing list?
> 
> Daniel.
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Rick Reumann [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: 06 July 2005 17:42
> > To: Struts Users Mailing List
> > Subject: Fired was...Re: Struts Books
> Recommendations
> >
> >
> > Mark Galbreath wrote the following on 7/6/2005
> 10:19 AM:
> > > Thanks to whomever emailed last weeks nonsense
> thread to the Director
> > > of the Board of Elections.  It made me look like
> a racist and I was
> > > fired this morning.  The State is also looking
> into whether my use of
> > > an official email address for that discussion is
> in violation of state
> > > law.  You did your work well, you low-life
> bastard.
> > >
> > > Signing off
> > > Mark
> > >
> >
> > Whoever did send something is such a loser it's
> not even funny. At least
> > step forward and admit who you are. I constantly
> here bigotted stuff on
> > mailing lists and forums, yet I don't go running
> like a little baby to
> > find out their employeer so I can "tattle" on them
> like a 3rd grader.
> > I'd much rather the internet be open for a free
> exchange of ideas
> > (regardless of whether we agree with them or not)
> without having to fear
> > someone is going to hunt down who I am and state
> my comments to my
> > employeer or wife.
> >
> > I can't believe I now have to watch what I say on
> this mailing list.
> > Guess I will be making up a gmail account that
> doesn't use my real name
> > just to help protect myself from losers like this
> person.
> >
> > It's sad the same thing happened to a guy working
> at Allstate who
> > happened to post that he felt homosexulaity was
> wrong on a non-company
> > related website
> http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44961
> >
> > The irony is I guess Mark should have said how
> "The US is so evil for
> > being in Iraq" or "How 

Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations

[Michael Jouravlev]

On 7/6/05, Rick Reumann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I can't believe I now have to watch what I say on this mailing list.

You always have to watch what you say and do, Big Brother is watching.
Kidding aside, I know this first hand. Weather, football and cars seem
to be safe topics. Until you call VW Beetle a gay car, and then
realise that your homofobic boss drives it.

> Why is only one view (secular humanism) considered 'non offensive' 
> but other religious views are some how bigoted and intolerant.

The purpose of any religion including communism is to control the
masses, so I do not care much about differences between confessions.
By the way, can you tolerate my point of view? ;-)

Michael.

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[OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations

[Rick Reumann]

Daniel Perry wrote the following on 7/6/2005 12:49 PM:

Hah, it's the business use of web/email they fire you for. Go read your
terms of employment, and the reference to "IT acceptible use policy" that
you inadvertantly agreed to.


(the below has nothing to do with Mark)..

For the record, I'm not against an employer firing an employee for 
'whatever' reason they deem fit. If they don't like the way you wear 
your hair, I think they should have the right to fire you if they want. 
(The public also has a right to know about it based on the use of the 
press etc).


Personally, if I owned a company and someone was using the company email 
domain name to post on sites such as "swingers" or "transvestitepride," 
I think I should have right to terminate his or her's employment. What I 
have a problem with is ...


1) The inconsistency in what is protected. For example everyone today 
talks about "tolerance." But what does this mean? What it ends up 
meaning is "There are no moral absolutes so the only valid belief system 
protected is one that doesn't espouse moral judgments." But what about 
being tolerant to the idea that someone might feel otherwise?  Why is 
state sanctioned secularism the only valid religion (and yes secularism 
is a belief system - a religion). It's sort of funny that those whom 
often claim to be the most 'tolerant' are often the most vicious when it 
comes to attacking someone that disagrees with their view of 
"tolerance." There are many views I could state that would get me 
labeled as being 'intolerant,' yet, somehow it's supposedly not 
offensive to state "All views on X,Y,orZ are equally acceptable." To me, 
and many others, that later position can be considered extremely 
offensive. Why is only one view (secular humanism) considered 'non 
offensive' but other religious views are some how bigoted and 
intolerant. It's pure hypocrisy.


2) Someone taking the time on the list to 'complain' to someone's 
employer. Sure you have the right to do so, but I think it's lame.


--
Rick

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Re: Struts Books Recommendations

[erikweber]

Mark,

I am sorry to hear it turned out this way. I hope this turns out to be a 
blessing in disguise and that you go on to get a better job after learning a 
tough lesson (not that I'm saying the punishment fit the crime -- in my 
opinion, based solely on postings to this list, it did not). Maybe it wasn't 
the right job for you anyway.

May God be with you.

Erik



-Original Message-
From: Mark Galbreath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Jul 6, 2005 10:19 AM
To: Struts Users Mailing List 
Subject: Re: Struts Books Recommendations

Thanks to whomever emailed last weeks nonsense thread to the Director
of the Board of Elections.  It made me look like a racist and I was
fired this morning.  The State is also looking into whether my use of
an official email address for that discussion is in violation of state
law.  You did your work well, you low-life bastard.

Signing off
Mark

On 6/30/05, Thai Dang Vu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 3) "Struts! It's not just for H-1Bs!"
> 
> So, I can get a H1B just by learning Struts and use it decently? :)
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
>

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RE: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations

[Daniel Perry]

Hah, it's the business use of web/email they fire you for. Go read your
terms of employment, and the reference to "IT acceptible use policy" that
you inadvertantly agreed to.

There have been cases in the uk where they have done this as it's much
cheaper to hunt out employees who have sent dodgy emails/had a sexual advert
popup/etc than to actually pay people redundancy.

Note that i agree it's a bit harsh to get the guy fired.  Still, who really
wants to work for a company that will fire you over a comment you make on a
mailing list?

Daniel.

> -Original Message-
> From: Rick Reumann [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: 06 July 2005 17:42
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations
>
>
> Mark Galbreath wrote the following on 7/6/2005 10:19 AM:
> > Thanks to whomever emailed last weeks nonsense thread to the Director
> > of the Board of Elections.  It made me look like a racist and I was
> > fired this morning.  The State is also looking into whether my use of
> > an official email address for that discussion is in violation of state
> > law.  You did your work well, you low-life bastard.
> >
> > Signing off
> > Mark
> >
>
> Whoever did send something is such a loser it's not even funny. At least
> step forward and admit who you are. I constantly here bigotted stuff on
> mailing lists and forums, yet I don't go running like a little baby to
> find out their employeer so I can "tattle" on them like a 3rd grader.
> I'd much rather the internet be open for a free exchange of ideas
> (regardless of whether we agree with them or not) without having to fear
> someone is going to hunt down who I am and state my comments to my
> employeer or wife.
>
> I can't believe I now have to watch what I say on this mailing list.
> Guess I will be making up a gmail account that doesn't use my real name
> just to help protect myself from losers like this person.
>
> It's sad the same thing happened to a guy working at Allstate who
> happened to post that he felt homosexulaity was wrong on a non-company
> related website http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44961
>
> The irony is I guess Mark should have said how "The US is so evil for
> being in Iraq" or "How he hates pro-life Christians" and maybe he would
> have gotten a promotion. Or better yet, what if he was gay and posted
> all over some homosexual website about how he wanted to do all these
> sexual things with some other males and farm animals, and I as his
> employeer, found out about it and found it was offensive so I fired him.
> I will bet you *anything* that the ACLU would be on my back so fast it
> wouldn't even be funny and I as the employeer would lose my job for
> firing him! I just love the double-standards in the U.S. today.  A guy
> can get state funding from the National Endowment of the Arts by putting
> a crucifix in a jar of urine and calling it 'art', yet at the same time
> people get fired for off-color comments they make on a mailing list?
>
> --
> Rick
>
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> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>


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Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations

[Carlos Duque]

Take a look at the original email thread to which I responded.  Take a look 
at the addressees of the email.  Your answer will lie there.   Be careful 
about whom you tar, since it very well be someone you may justifiably hold 
in high regard.


As for whether that person deserves to be chastised for the consequences of 
the boorish behavior of others,  you may just want to rethink the target of 
your ire.


Finally, what's to say this isn't just another game being played?

Carlos

At 09:42 AM 7/6/2005, you wrote:

Mark Galbreath wrote the following on 7/6/2005 10:19 AM:

Thanks to whomever emailed last weeks nonsense thread to the Director
of the Board of Elections.  It made me look like a racist and I was
fired this morning.  The State is also looking into whether my use of
an official email address for that discussion is in violation of state
law.  You did your work well, you low-life bastard.
Signing off
Mark


Whoever did send something is such a loser it's not even funny. At least 
step forward and admit who you are. I constantly here bigotted stuff on 
mailing lists and forums, yet I don't go running like a little baby to 
find out their employeer so I can "tattle" on them like a 3rd grader. I'd 
much rather the internet be open for a free exchange of ideas (regardless 
of whether we agree with them or not) without having to fear someone is 
going to hunt down who I am and state my comments to my employeer or wife.


I can't believe I now have to watch what I say on this mailing list. Guess 
I will be making up a gmail account that doesn't use my real name just to 
help protect myself from losers like this person.


It's sad the same thing happened to a guy working at Allstate who happened 
to post that he felt homosexulaity was wrong on a non-company related 
website http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44961


The irony is I guess Mark should have said how "The US is so evil for 
being in Iraq" or "How he hates pro-life Christians" and maybe he would 
have gotten a promotion. Or better yet, what if he was gay and posted all 
over some homosexual website about how he wanted to do all these sexual 
things with some other males and farm animals, and I as his employeer, 
found out about it and found it was offensive so I fired him. I will bet 
you *anything* that the ACLU would be on my back so fast it wouldn't even 
be funny and I as the employeer would lose my job for firing him! I just 
love the double-standards in the U.S. today.  A guy can get state funding 
from the National Endowment of the Arts by putting a crucifix in a jar of 
urine and calling it 'art', yet at the same time people get fired for 
off-color comments they make on a mailing list?


--
Rick

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This is a private email address and is explicitly and expressly not 
intended for addition to or use in any mass distribution list without the 
author's prior and express written consent.  Absent the specified consent, 
please remove this email address from any such list.

Copyright (C) 2004 Cariz  

Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations

[Rick Reumann]

Mark Galbreath wrote the following on 7/6/2005 10:19 AM:

Thanks to whomever emailed last weeks nonsense thread to the Director
of the Board of Elections.  It made me look like a racist and I was
fired this morning.  The State is also looking into whether my use of
an official email address for that discussion is in violation of state
law.  You did your work well, you low-life bastard.

Signing off
Mark



Whoever did send something is such a loser it's not even funny. At least 
step forward and admit who you are. I constantly here bigotted stuff on 
mailing lists and forums, yet I don't go running like a little baby to 
find out their employeer so I can "tattle" on them like a 3rd grader. 
I'd much rather the internet be open for a free exchange of ideas 
(regardless of whether we agree with them or not) without having to fear 
someone is going to hunt down who I am and state my comments to my 
employeer or wife.


I can't believe I now have to watch what I say on this mailing list. 
Guess I will be making up a gmail account that doesn't use my real name 
just to help protect myself from losers like this person.


It's sad the same thing happened to a guy working at Allstate who 
happened to post that he felt homosexulaity was wrong on a non-company 
related website http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44961


The irony is I guess Mark should have said how "The US is so evil for 
being in Iraq" or "How he hates pro-life Christians" and maybe he would 
have gotten a promotion. Or better yet, what if he was gay and posted 
all over some homosexual website about how he wanted to do all these 
sexual things with some other males and farm animals, and I as his 
employeer, found out about it and found it was offensive so I fired him. 
I will bet you *anything* that the ACLU would be on my back so fast it 
wouldn't even be funny and I as the employeer would lose my job for 
firing him! I just love the double-standards in the U.S. today.  A guy 
can get state funding from the National Endowment of the Arts by putting 
a crucifix in a jar of urine and calling it 'art', yet at the same time 
people get fired for off-color comments they make on a mailing list?


--
Rick

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RE: Struts Books Recommendations

[Daniel Perry]

> -Original Message-
> From: Mark Galbreath [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Thanks to whomever emailed last weeks nonsense thread to the Director
> of the Board of Elections.  It made me look like a racist and I was
> fired this morning.  The State is also looking into whether my use of
> an official email address for that discussion is in violation of state
> law.  You did your work well, you low-life bastard.
> 
> Signing off
> Mark

Shouldnt that be "Signing on", or is that just a British phrase :)

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Re: Struts Books Recommendations

[Mark Galbreath]

Thanks to whomever emailed last weeks nonsense thread to the Director
of the Board of Elections.  It made me look like a racist and I was
fired this morning.  The State is also looking into whether my use of
an official email address for that discussion is in violation of state
law.  You did your work well, you low-life bastard.

Signing off
Mark

On 6/30/05, Thai Dang Vu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 3) "Struts! It's not just for H-1Bs!"
> 
> So, I can get a H1B just by learning Struts and use it decently? :)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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> 
>

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[FRIDAY all week] Re: Struts Books Recommendations

[netsql]

Thai Dang Vu wrote:

 
So, I can get a H1B just by learning Struts and use it decently? :)



I heard if you *know OF* Swing, while you wash your hair, it can paint 
your house.



.V


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Re: Struts Books Recommendations

[Thai Dang Vu]

3) "Struts! It's not just for H-1Bs!"
 
So, I can get a H1B just by learning Struts and use it decently? :)




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Re: Struts Books Recommendations

[John Henry Xu]

I would say

Jakarta Struts Cookbook 

Struts Recipes

as the books.

BTW, H-1B pays US tax while they cannot get unemployment insurance paycheck 
(even they pay unemployment insurance). Maybe rick can focus on what will not 
pay US tax and will take job away instead.

Jack H. Xu
Technology columnist/Editor and author

http://www.usanalyst.com

http://www.getusjobs.com  



  - Original Message -
  From: "Rick Reumann"
  To: "Struts Users Mailing List"
  Subject: Re: Struts Books Recommendations
  Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 15:54:23 -0400

  >
  > Mark Galbreath wrote the following on 6/30/2005 3:44 PM:
  > > I've been out of Struts for about 18 months now and all my books
  are
  > > out of date (Chuck Cavaness, Ted Husted, etc.) and are from the
  > > pre-release days. Are there any references published in the past
  year
  > > you would recommend?
  >
  > Come on this is a joke question right:)
  >
  > In cas you are serious, there are a few that came out recently that
  > I'd recommend by O'Rielly..
  >
  > 1) "Struts, Alive and Better Than .NET!"
  > 2) "You Hava A Friend In The Validator"
  > 3) "Struts! It's not just for H-1Bs!"
  >
  > -- Rick
  >
  >
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Jack H. Xu
Technology columnist and author

http://www.usanalyst.com

http://www.getusjobs.com

-- 
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Re: Struts Books Recommendations

[Frank W. Zammetti]

Awesome reply Rick!  At the risk of spawning another long, irrelevant
thread (but it *IS* almost Friday here), I'd like to mention a few others
that may or may not be available at Amazon now...

4) "Struts Without an IDE: A feather, some ink and an Abacus"

Actually, that's all I got :)  Probably just as well.

-- 
Frank W. Zammetti
Founder and Chief Software Architect
Omnytex Technologies
http://www.omnytex.com

On Thu, June 30, 2005 3:54 pm, Rick Reumann said:
> Mark Galbreath wrote the following on 6/30/2005 3:44 PM:
>> I've been out of Struts for about 18 months now and all my books are
>> out of date (Chuck Cavaness, Ted Husted, etc.) and are from the
>> pre-release days.  Are there any references published in the past year
>> you would recommend?
>
> Come on this is a joke question right:)
>
> In cas you are serious, there are a few that came out recently that I'd
> recommend by O'Rielly..
>
> 1) "Struts, Alive and Better Than .NET!"
> 2) "You Hava A Friend In The Validator"
> 3) "Struts! It's not just for H-1Bs!"
>
> --
> Rick
>
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>
>


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Re: Struts Books Recommendations

[Rick Reumann]

Sorry about the typos:)

Rick Reumann wrote the following on 6/30/2005 3:54 PM:

Mark Galbreath wrote the following on 6/30/2005 3:44 PM:


I've been out of Struts for about 18 months now and all my books are
out of date (Chuck Cavaness, Ted Husted, etc.) and are from the
pre-release days.  Are there any references published in the past year
you would recommend?



Come on this is a joke question right:)

In cas you are serious, there are a few that came out recently that I'd 
recommend by O'Rielly..


1) "Struts, Alive and Better Than .NET!"
2) "You Hava A Friend In The Validator"
3) "Struts! It's not just for H-1Bs!"




--
Rick

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Re: Struts Books Recommendations

[Rick Reumann]

Mark Galbreath wrote the following on 6/30/2005 3:44 PM:

I've been out of Struts for about 18 months now and all my books are
out of date (Chuck Cavaness, Ted Husted, etc.) and are from the
pre-release days.  Are there any references published in the past year
you would recommend?


Come on this is a joke question right:)

In cas you are serious, there are a few that came out recently that I'd 
recommend by O'Rielly..


1) "Struts, Alive and Better Than .NET!"
2) "You Hava A Friend In The Validator"
3) "Struts! It's not just for H-1Bs!"

--
Rick

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To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]