[users] Re: Sections
On 11/28/2010 11:03 AM, Harold Fuchs wrote: I've read some of the documentation on Sections in OOo Writer but I've decided I don't understand the thinking behind them. Perhaps some would explain it to me: If I create a new blank Writer document, type a few lines and then insert a section, a few things are puzzling: 1. The new section is named "section 1". Why not "section 2"? Why isn't the text *before* the new section considered to be Section 1?... I think you can add sections to the list of things in OOo with confusing names. I say this because most people naturally associate the word "section" with document sections, but Writer's sections are not document sections at all. A section in Writer is merely a container for some arbitrary document content; it might contain one word, one line, one page, or the entire document text. The default names, e.g. "Section 1," also suggest document sections, or at least some ordered sequence, but that's also misleading. A section named "Section 100" could come first in the document, and "Section 1" at the end: the name is purely an identifier. You could just as well call it "Section Fred". There are two distinguishing uses for sections that I can think of off the top of my head: a text layout change that occurs somewhere within a page (i.e. not at a page boundary), and for repeating some content multiple times (cloning). For example, you need two-column running text, but the first page should have a full-width, single column title and first paragraph above the two-column text. You can make the page layout single column (just for the initial title and first paragraph), then put all the remaining text into a "section" that provides two-column layout. The division has nothing to do with the document sections; it's just an arbitrary container that provides a defined region that is to receive some specific content and formatting. I guess sections are similar to frames, but they don't float; they're part of the text flow.
[users] Re: increased line spacing when applying bullets - why?
On 06/21/2010 04:18 PM, John Kaufmann wrote: In a message dated 2010.06.21 09:53 -0500, Joe Smith wrote: Maybe someone here knows why the line spacing is increased when bullets are applied? ... I've been working (off & on) at something of a "howto" on OOo Writer's lists. Here's the section that I did for this problem: http://www.martnet.com/~jes/temp/OOo_Writer_Bullet_Size.pdf Hope it's helpful; if not, let me know how to improve it. It answer the question perfectly: OpenSymbol (OO's default font for Insert|Symbol) has a taller linespace (for a given point size) than whatever text font the author happens to be using, so Writer adapts to the taller font. That's the right and simple answer, but it leaves a couple of wrinkles, which go beyond the immediate problem but are germane and would enhance the value of your already valuable explanation: - Is there normative relationship between point size and line height? If not, what does point size mean? - Cor found that he had to go to /half/ the nominal point size (in OpenSymbol) to match the line height of his text font (I forget what that was) - for example, 10pt OpenSymbol to a 20pt text size. This seems like quite a jump. Is there anything in the font specs that can guide a user to matching an OpenSymbol character to the characters in the text font (or more generally, any character in one font to the size of another font)? Sorry, I realize these questions are easier to ask than to answer, ... Not in this case because the answer is: I don't know. ;-) I /assume/ there is some "design line height" parameter stored in the font--probably based on the maximum character height, from lowest descender to highest ascender--and that's what Writer bases the line spacing on. Different fonts have different heights, and even one character in a different font can bump up the line height. Just take a normal paragraph and change the font of one word (or one character--a space or a period, even) to OpenSymbol: you will probably see the line spacing increase for that line of text. I doubt this is a bug in the font. My guess is that OpenSymbol simply has a taller design height than most fonts because some symbols in the font extend particularly far above or below the baseline. I don't know of any way to tell for sure exactly what characters, in what font, face, size, etc., Writer is emitting. Well, ok, I expect it's there in the PostScript data sent to the printer--I'll be happy to let someone else track that down. ;-)
[users] Re: Removing space from Writer formula
On 06/21/2010 08:17 AM, Dotan Cohen wrote:
In the following Writer formula there exists a space between the %mu
and the m (for micrometers):
d_0.95 = 20 %mu m
How can the user remove the space?
With the upcoming release (3.3, or the developer snapshots leading up to
it), a new command is available for avoiding the usual spacing between
formula elements:
d_0.95 = 20 nospace { %mu m } newline
However, in your case, where the element is a measurement unit and not a
symbol or variable name, it would be more correct to use quoted text and
avoid both the extra space and the italic font style:
d_0.95 = 20 "µm"
That only leaves how to type the "µ" as an exercise for the reader. ;-)
[users] Re: increased line spacing when applying bullets - why?
On 06/10/2010 04:23 AM, Cor Nouws wrote: Hi all, Maybe someone here knows why the line spacing is increased when bullets are applied? ... I've been working (off & on) at something of a "howto" on OOo Writer's lists. Here's the section that I did for this problem: http://www.martnet.com/~jes/temp/OOo_Writer_Bullet_Size.pdf Hope it's helpful; if not, let me know how to improve it.
[users] Re: "doubling up" a table?
On 03/12/2010 04:35 PM, McLauchlan, Kevin wrote: OOo 3.2 on Windows XP Pro X64 I have a small document that includes a narrow 2-column table, consisting of a heading row and 54 rows of content. I wanted to make the table double-wide and bring the lower 27 rows up to occupy the new columns 3 and 4. Is there a quick and direct way to do this? ... Here's one way that avoids any need to re-structure the table: Select the table and Insert > Section, configure the section for as many columns as you like and click "Insert". Writer will break the table to fill the columns; a two-column section will produce the result you described. There will be some extra space between the columns unless you adjust everything to fit exactly. You may need to edit something inside the section to force Writer to recalculate the table layout, and you must have the Text Flow > 'Allow table to break across pages/columns' option turned on. You will need to select a text paragraph before & after the table to get the Insert > Section menu. For some reason, Writer won't let you insert a section when only the table is selected. You can enter extra paragraphs and delete them later.
[users] Re: Bracketing List Items Together
On 03/08/2010 02:20 PM, Harold Fuchs wrote: Thanks; where do I get the curly bracket graphics from? Or is there an easy way to make them? How, please? Look on the Drawing toolbar, under "Symbol Shapes". You may need to activate the Drawing toolbar in Writer: View > Toolbars > Drawing. If you'd prefer a more traditional, shaped bracket, you can make one from a text bracket character, using whatever font you like. You're likely to find that a plain text bracket does not work well at large point sizes, but you can convert the character to a pure graphic element (in OOo Draw: Modify > Convert > To curve) and then stretch it as tall as necessary without changing the width/thickness.
[users] Re: Bracketing List Items Together
On 03/08/2010 04:29 AM, Harold Fuchs wrote: In Writer (3.1.1 currently), how can I bracket two or more list-items together with a large curly brace placed at the *right* of the longest item? Thus: List item 1) List Item Number 2 ) This text refers to all three items This is list item number 3 ) The three right braces above should really be "combined into" a single large curly bracket vertically centred on item #2. The intention, as I've indicated, is to have additional text after the bracket, on the same line as item #2, which refers to all three items. I've used a table to contain the items, with a formula or graphic for the bracket, depending on the exact appearance I need. Using a table isn't absolutely necessary, but it makes it easy to adjust the spacing and alignment of the items. Here are some samples: http://www.martnet.com/~jes/temp/bracket_text_items.odt
[users] Re: Do different versions of OO.o do number formats differently???
On 01/29/2010 05:18 AM, Joe(theWordy)Philbrook wrote: It would appear that on Jan 29, Brian Barker did say: At 12:13 28/01/2010 -0500, Joe(theWordy)Philbrook wrote: It drives me to distraction whenever my date is converted from: 11:20 am to 11:20:00 AM ... If I understand you correctly, the switch is at Tools | Options... | OpenOffice.org Writer | Table | Input in tables | Number recognition. Remove the tick there, and your input will not be interfered with. Thanks! I'll try that. I still wish there was an easy toggle to disable all forms of auto-conversion/correction/capitalization/substitution/adnauseum in one fell swoop. I always want my software to assume that I meant what I actually typed, and to please stop trying to second guess me. But now that I know where that particular switch is... Like I said thanks! There is a shortcut to the setting Brian mentioned: right click in any table and choose "Number recognition" to toggle the setting. This is a global, application-level setting, and when it is off, Writer will always take what you type in a table as literal text, and make no automatic conversions. The closest you can get to a "master switch" is Format > AutoCorrect > While Typing: OFF, but that does not affect the table entry. Perhaps the difference is not in the different versions, but simply that the option mentioned above is set differently in your different installations? Don't think so, because not having tripped over the above option, I never (un)set it before. ... As you might imagine, there is a great deal of discussion and variant opinions on what Writer's default configuration should be here. I'm only guessing, but it could be that your different installations were built to use different defaults for this feature. I also believe that the default for the OO.org builds has changed in different versions. Just a word of advice (not that you asked): the automatic features are very annoying until you learn how to take advantage of them, at which point they become quite useful. It's worth learning to use them, even though that's a little harder than just turning them off.
[users] Re: Issue 77811
On 11/24/2009 07:25 PM, JOE Conner wrote: ... What I want to be able to do is import a style and incorporate it within my own new document (F-11) dropdown list of styles. ... It would be nice if the "Load Styles" function was available for Calc, but you work around the problem using File > Templates > Organize (no, really). In the template organizer dialog window, you can use the "File" button to load a document into the organizer. You want to get the 'source' document (that has the style you want) and the 'target' document (that you want to copy the styles into) into the organizer's list. The documents may be, but need not be, open in OOo. It does not matter which panel (left or right) the names appear in. With the two document names shown, double-click on the source document name to expose the "Styles" folder, then double-click the styles folder to see a list of all the styles, by name. Now, press Ctrl and drag the style you want from the source document to the target document. As far as I know, you can only copy the styles one at a time.
[users] Re: Pictures inside frames - Anchor To Frame
On 11/07/2009 03:55 AM, John Kaufmann wrote: ... "Border" is not an independent entity from "Area"; on the contrary, "Paragraph area" is bounded by the paragraph borders, and "Page area" is bounded by the page borders. because the selection set is not orthogonal, the model doesn't compute; it runs into problems. It is always difficult to come up with short, often one word, labels for the complex concepts manipulated by software applications. Writer (and OOo in general) suffers from this difficulty in many places; this is one of them--to me at least. The 'border' here is not really a border in the sense most people would get from seeing the word. Instead, here it refers to the space between the paragraph margins and the page margins. So it is an area, although in many cases it has zero width because the paragraph margins extend out to the page margins. You can (sort of) see the layout in the diagram at the top right of the dialog window. I think also, you may be expecting more structure in documents than Writer actually provides. The menus may suggest that a caption is something you somehow "add to" an image, but that is not the case. The image and the caption (and the frame around them) are completely separate entities at the document level. You can separate them by cut/paste and distribute them over the whole document, if you like. Writer adds the frame and puts the components together because it is a common way of laying out captioned objects. It's not the only way to do it; it may not even be the best way. It may not fit your document layout, but you are free to rearrange the components however you like. I believe (but I haven't checked) that you can make your own fully-functional captions without using the Insert > Caption menu at all.
[users] Re: Draw and Text Boxes.?
On 10/23/2009 03:58 AM, Harold Fuchs wrote: 2009/10/23 James Elliott A question on Text Boxes ... ... oops! ... the whole text box has disappeared, gone, along with all my carefully selected margins ... poof! - gone! ... When you create the text box, put a line (border) around it: ... ... When, eventually, you are happy with the size, position and contents of your text box you may change the Line Style back to "invisible". If you want to save the document, make sure the text box is visible. Only make it invisible just prior to printing. ... Good tip! I had forgotten that only empty _and invisible_ text boxes are liable to disappear. You can protect the box from disappearing while keeping it invisible using a line color or area fill that match the background (white, usually), or make the line/fill 100% transparent. As long as the box has some non-default setting, it won't go 'poof'. BTW, this situation practically begs to use styles. You could define a base style for your drafts that has all the properties you like for your text, plus a visible line and/or background so you can see what you're doing. Then, you can make another style, derived from the draft style, that only changes the line/background to 'none'. To remove the draft properties, just apply the 'final' style. And you won't have to worry about losing your settings if a box disappears: You can convert any text box into a properly formatted text box just by applying the style. Another possibility with styles: You could use one style--the draft--then at the end, just modify the style to use line/fill: 'none'. All the text boxes in the document will automatically update. Here's a sample drawing that shows draft and final styles: http://martnet.com/~jes/temp/Draw_newsletter_styles.odg Toggle the 'Edit File' toolbar button if the document is read-only, then use Format > Styles and Formatting to see a list of the available styles. Select the draft text box, then double-click on the 'final' style name in the list to apply the style. There's a short introduction to styles in the Draw Guide: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/OOoAuthors_User_Manual/Draw_Guide/Using_styles
[users] Re: Writer user guide update to OOo 3.2 - use of arbitrary paragraph styes for outlining
On 10/20/2009 08:15 AM, Michele Zarri wrote: Hello All, As the subject states, I am in the process of updating the Writer user guide (www.oooauthors.org) to include some new features introduced since OOo 3.0. At present I am looking at the capability of allocating to a paragraph style its own outline level. ... Is there anybody who has used this functionality and can share with me why it was needed? I suppose it could be useful in a number of situations, but the one situation I'm aware of where it is required is for unnumbered headings that should appear in the ToC. E.g., a book might use numbered chapters (top-level, "Heading 1" paragraphs), but the front sections (Preface, Forward, ToC, etc.) are unnumbered. Such unnumbered headings need special treatment on two accounts: First, as you mentioned, those should be top level headings but that level is already assigned to "Heading 1", so you need two (or more) paragraph styles assigned to the top level--not possible with Tools > Outline Numbering, which is one style per level. Second, if you use Tools > Outline Numbering to assign those heading styles to an outline level, they must have a number. If you set the numbering type to "None", then the paragraph is not included in the ToC; for what reason, I don't understand, but that's how it works. I don't know of any other way to handle this kind of situation properly. You can fudge it by hijacking an unused outline level, making it /appear/ at the top-level in the ToC and hiding it's number with character formatting tricks, but the document outline will be malformed in the Navigator, or an exported PDF. Thanks for your efforts in updating the docs! The Guides are really top-notch.
[users] Re: Default tab stops
On 10/19/2009 02:35 PM, John Kaufmann wrote: > Joe, I've learned that you think about these things at a pretty deep > level, so I try to make sure I understand the nuances... I'm no expert, by any means; I'm just interested in using OOo effectively. > In a message dated 2009.10.19 11:54 -0500, Joe Smith wrote: > >> The concept of "default tab stops" or "tab at every half-inch" are >> only supported at the application level, not per paragraph, and you >> will do well to avoid them in any case. >> ... >> Setting a paragraph's tab stops using the Format > Paragraph dialog >> window is like a sharp stick in the eye--use the rulers instead. > Why is it better to define a Paragraph style's tab stop(s) [which, to use the rulers, must be defined to AutoUpdate, correct?] with the rulers rather than numerically? Mainly for two reasons: 1) You can clearly see what you're doing. If I have paragraphs containing two distinct items separated by a tab, and I want the items to appear in two neat columns, I can simply click on the ruler and drag the tab stop to a position that's wide enough for all the items in the left column; I can easily see everything I need to set the tab stop at an appropriate position. Changing the tab stop later is just as easy. 2) The tab dialog is difficult to use. The dialog's design makes it impossible to edit a tab stop. You have to delete the stop and add it again, in the process, losing the alignment and leader settings. Further, the change/view cycle is awkward: You have to open the dialog, make a guess at the position, then confirm with OK and check how it looks--then, if it's not right, rinse and repeat. You're right that using the ruler to edit the tab stops in a style is a bit of a nuisance. I generally just grit my teeth and use the Edit Style dialog, or move the tab(s) with the ruler and then update the style manually. I don't much like the idea of auto-updating styles, so I haven't tried that route. For a one-off job, I just use direct formatting from the ruler--nothing wrong with that, IMO. On 10/19/2009 03:04 PM, Michael Adams wrote: ... Setting a paragraph's tab stops using the Format> Paragraph dialog window is like a sharp stick in the eye--use the rulers instead. Not if you want precise distances. Some are happy with near enough being good enough - others want anally perfect. OT Comments below*. Very true. If you need precise positions, you have to use the dialog. There is a lot of support for an enhancement[*] to make the rulers snap to some convenient spacing--0.1" or 0.1cm, something like that. That would make it reasonably easy to get precise stops from the ruler. If you need more than one or two stops in a paragraph, you may be better off with a table. Yes, perhaps i should have. I wanted a scale of numbers equally spaced across one line in the document. I can think of a few ways to do that; what's best would likely depend on what you need the scale for. If you wanted to use tabs, you're right: It would probably be easier to just enter the positions in the dialog. * Sir Isaac Newton, the renowned alchemist, is the one that did the experiment where he poked a sharp stick (a bodkin) into his eye socket. Fascinating. ;-) [*] Issue 24070: Items on ruler (i.e. tab stops, paragraph indent, table borders) should snap. http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=24070 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
[users] Re: Default tab stops
On 10/19/2009 04:07 AM, Harold Fuchs wrote: 2009/10/19 Michael Adams Had a little trouble setting default tab stops in writer today. I wanted to set them for one paragraph only, ... ... The only thing I can't find a way to do is to specify, for example "every 1/2 inch". Perhaps someone else would enlighten us on this aspect. Please. The concept of "default tab stops" or "tab at every half-inch" are only supported at the application level, not per paragraph, and you will do well to avoid them in any case. If you need tab stops--content aligned vertically at a specific position--you should set a specific tab stop for it. Writer will copy that setting when you start a new paragraph, or better, define a style that you can apply as needed. It may seem less convenient than just "pressing Tab until things line up," but this way you'll have much better control over the layout and spend less time fiddling around trying to get things lined up. Setting a paragraph's tab stops using the Format > Paragraph dialog window is like a sharp stick in the eye--use the rulers instead. If you need more than one or two stops in a paragraph, you may be better off with a table. More on setting tabs in Writer: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/OOo3_User_Guides/Writer_Guide/Format_paragraphs
[users] Re: Annotating a structured list
On 10/06/2009 02:36 AM, John Kaufmann wrote: ... ...OO's handling of a hierarchical list changes depending on whether the list has some level-indicating character (numbers, letters, bullets, ...) or whether 'None' is selected in the style "Options" > "Numbering". In the latter case, which is used in your "_Annotated_list" style (which otherwise does what I wanted), an essential aspect of hierarchy is lost: the relationships of nodes and branches, or level with sub-points. Unless there is some such character, the "Bullets and Numbering" toolbar does not automatically appear in the list context - and even if that toolbar is manually invoked, the options to promote/demote/move_up/move_down /with subpoints/ (which IMHO should always be the default behavior) are missing. But say we add numbering or bullets of some sort to the list style. Now there is a difference between those two approaches: The hierarchical structure (promote/demote/move_with_subpoints) is lost if we use the table approach for annotation, but not if we use the 'plain numbered paragraphs' (with numbers or bullets). IOW, the underlying hierarchical structure is lost if we impose a list style on a table, or a table on a list. Does this sound like a bug, or is there a rational design explanation for this behavior? Excellent points and right on the money--thanks for bringing it up. I noticed that the toolbar wasn't available, but I had not got so far as to realize the implications. As far as I can see, you're exactly right: The list in a table arrangement isn't practical if you need to rearrange the list. The B&N toolbar functions for moving items just won't move list items between table cells. The missing B&N toolbar is a bug[1]. I reported it--you'd think I would have remembered the problem before now! To workaround the problem and get the B&N toolbar in the plain paragraph arrangement, there are a couple of strategies I can think of: * Change the list style to include a bullet of some sort, but make the bullet "invisible". * Use "unnumbered" entries for the list items. The first strategy definitely works, although I can't see any reasonable way to get a truly invisible bullet character. About the best I could come up with is something thin and white. ... Oh yeah, you could use a regular bullet, colored white, and right-aligned: That will preserve the indent spacing; the bullet width will be effectively zero. I suppose you could use a "web bug"--a 1-pixel, transparent image; maybe it's possible to arrange for a zero-width image, but I can't think of one off the top of my head. You could use a zero-width space as the bullet character, but there's no way to do it from the normal interface. You can specify any character as the bullet, but the "Insert > Special Character" dialog only deals with printing characters. Writer seems to be fine with a zero-width space as the bullet, but you have to dive in and edit the document xml to get it. Hardly practical. You can configure a custom character style for the bullets that specifies "hidden" text. That normally makes the characters disappear entirely, but not when used on bullets or numbering.[2] The second strategy, unnumbered entries, seems like it should do the job, but doesn't. First, it's a chore to add items to the list: You have to use the "Insert Unnumbered Entry" button, then type the item. Second, and more important, the list hierarchy functions (move with subpoints) don't work properly on lists made of unnumbered entries. They either do nothing or jumble the list. Playing with it a little, it seems that what Writer calls an "unnumbered entry" is something else entirely--it definitely does not act like a normal entry having no number. So it seems that the plain paragraph approach, with some kind of bullet that's as invisible as you care to make it, is the only fully-functional approach. http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=61651 Target: OOo Later [2] 'Hidden' text visible http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=61651 CLOSED as WONTFIX - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.org
[users] Re: Annotating a structured list
On 10/05/2009 02:03 AM, John Kaufmann wrote: ... ... I don't understand what you mean by 'hierarchical', beside outline-style indentation, which is still there when I view it. So sorry - that question came from first viewing your example in OO 2.2, which is what was on the computer (not mine) where I read your example document. In that case, the indentation was gone. I should have suspected a version problem, but did not think about it. After reading it in OO 3.1, though, that problem went away, and I could see it as you wrote it. Please excuse my failure to be more thorough before posting that question. It was a terrific, helpful reply; thank you for that, OIC; right. I wasn't thinking about a compatibility issue, but you are correct: There were some major changes in OOo 3 that are not fully-compatible with OOo 2.x. Older documents will open properly in OOo 3, but not the other way around. Good to know it was helpful. I'm working on a 'how-to' for lists in Writer, so I was interested to in your question as an example of something a little different than the usual list. It's helpful to see what trips people up and what can help make things a little clearer.
[users] Re: Annotating a structured list
On 10/02/2009 02:35 PM, John Kaufmann wrote: In a message dated 2009.10.02 13:20 -0500, Joe Smith wrote: In WordPerfect, even with such a structured list (what WordPerfect calls an "Outline"), one can "Indent" after any list member to a common point on the line, as shown above. I have been wasting a lot of time trying to see how to do this kind of annotation with Writer; can anyone offer a suggestion? My first thought was along the line already suggested by Barbara: Use a table. It makes setting up and adjusting the layout much more straightforward, and you can make the left column a list, if you want. Joe, that's what I did not see about Barbara's suggestion: how to make the left column a list, while maintaining logical/spatial relationship to the notes in the right column. I know it's dense of me, but can you help me see that point? Writer's lists are little odd. As far as the user sees, there is no 'list', just a set of paragraphs that are labeled consistently. The items in a list can just as well appear in separate table cells, or spread over the entire document. The items are simply paragraphs and they can appear anywhere a paragraph can appear and still be labeled consistently. So it's easy here: Each table row has a list element in the left cell and the corresponding description in the right cell. However, it is possible--though somewhat fiddly---to use plain numbered paragraphs, since numbering layout works by formatting its paragraph with a hanging indent, with the list label in the indent. In your case, the list label is empty, and you type the tag and the tab following. Let me make sure I understand this [which looks like one of the things I tried]: - Make a Paragraph style "Stuctured list"; - Go to "Outline & Numbering" tab to select: - - as "Numbering Style", my List style "List without bullets"; - - as "Outline level"... what? As the list is hierarchical, can I choose any level other than "Boby text"? Or is your suggestion related to: Tools | AutoCorrect | Options: "Apply numbering - symbol:*" Nothing at all to do with AutoCorrect or the "Outline level". And you don't necessarily need a separate paragraph style: the formatting you describe is all configured and provided by the numbering style. By 'numbering "Position" settings', you mean the "Position" tab in the List (Numbering) style, correct? - and your point is that that does not sync with the "Indents & Spacing" settings of the Paragraph style which includes the List style, correct? If so, that was my finding also - but then I also did not see how to maintain the list hierarchy indentations. It's a complex interaction; I thought I had it sorted out, but now I'm not exactly sure how it all fits together. But, for your situation, the list formatting can provide all the layout necessary. You don't need any special settings on the paragraph side. Thank you so much for doing that - but it looks like the /hierarchical/ listing is lost; is that correct? No extra work, really. I have to actually try stuff to see what happens. I don't understand what you mean by 'hierarchical', beside outline-style indentation, which is still there when I view it.
[users] Re: Annotating a structured list
On 10/02/2009 12:56 AM, John Kaufmann wrote: ... In WordPerfect, even with such a structured list (what WordPerfect calls an "Outline"), one can "Indent" after any list member to a common point on the line, as shown above. I have been wasting a lot of time trying to see how to do this kind of annotation with Writer; can anyone offer a suggestion? My first thought was along the line already suggested by Barbara: Use a table. It makes setting up and adjusting the layout much more straightforward, and you can make the left column a list, if you want. However, it is possible--though somewhat fiddly---to use plain numbered paragraphs, since numbering layout works by formatting its paragraph with a hanging indent, with the list label in the indent. In your case, the list label is empty, and you type the tag and the tab following. Using the list formatting is kind of strange--you have to specify completely empty numbering, with nothing after. The only thing the list gives you is the initial indent. The numbering layout actually controls the layout of the left side of the paragraph, but it's a little hard to see how the numbering "Position" settings match up with the paragraph "Indents & Spacing" settings because Writer uses different labels for the same setting. Here's a sample showing both approaches: http://martnet.com/~jes/temp/Annotated_list_sample.odt
[users] Re: Paragraph with enclosed list
On 09/26/2009 03:20 AM, John Kaufmann wrote: Let me digress to ask what should be a basic question ... ... Is that the way it is supposed to be done? That looks about right. In this case, I think there's actually another step. When you Insert > Frame, then apply a frame style that changes the anchoring to "as character", the frame invariably ends up in the wrong place, so you have to cut/paste the styled frame to the proper location. Even though the frame style properties dialog does not show the anchoring type, the property is part of the frame style. You can see it in the property list on the "Organizer" tab in the style dialog (although it seems to be labeled "To character" instead of "As character"). You can set the property by creating a fully configured sample frame, then create (or update) the style using "New style from selection" in the "Styles and Formatting" window. For content like this, I usually just copy/paste an already-finished instance, then edit to change the content. If I were really organized, I would make a formatted sample and use it to create an 'AutoText'. Then I could insert a new instance, ready to edit, with just a few keystrokes. (It seems to be 3-4 steps too many.) ... [<*> Annoyance: ... Am I missing something about this, or is this just an inexcusable, if minor, design lapse?] "It's not how well the elephant dances, it's that she can dance at all." As a dyed-in-the-wool perfectionist, I found that, working with OOo, I had to lower the bar to avoid a lot of wasted time and energy, not to mention losing more of what little sanity I have left. OOo is mostly still scraping by at the subsistence "Make it work" level; "Make it work /well/" is a luxury and mostly out of reach. When you say "line-break" are you referring to what the Help calls "line break" (Shift+Enter), or do you mean the paragraph break produced by a simple Enter? A line break, inserted by Shift+Enter; displayed as a "down+left" arrow when View > Nonprinting characters is on.
[users] Re: Paragraph with enclosed list
On 09/25/2009 10:58 PM, John Kaufmann wrote: ... - I can make the frame, and put the list in it; so far, so good. - I can anchor the frame to a character - but which character to make it stay where is belongs, ... The anchor is "_as_ character," not "_to_ character". An object anchored "as character" will become part of the text layout, acting just like an oversized character. The structure of the paragraph is: [text body paragraph...[line-break] [frame [list paragraph] [list paragraph] ... ][line-break] ...after text ] "As character" is a very useful type of anchoring since Writer's other anchoring modes can be somewhat unstable and difficult to manage, as you noticed already. I anchor things "as character" rather than "to paragraph" wherever possible. I thought to examine your example, to see how the frame is anchored and possibly examine style characteristics, but it's read-only, so none of the information is available. Any thoughts? A 'read-only' document status in OOo is purely advisory: you can toggle the read-only status just by clicking the "Edit File" button on the toolbar--it's about fifth from the left and carries an icon that looks like a pencil and paper. Once you change to 'read-write' (i.e., normal editing mode), OOo will treat the open document as a new copy and prompt you to save your copy as a local file.
[users] Re: Paragraph with enclosed list
On 09/25/2009 08:03 AM, John Kaufmann wrote: ... What is desired is that a paragraph with embedded list look overall like a paragraphs without embedded list. This means, for example, that between the list description and list elements there be no end-of-paragraph spacing, while the last list element should contain the default end-of-paragraph spacing. To say no more, this is a messy affront to the concept of paragraph styles: for example, what happens if you decide to extend the list? There's no sugar-coating it: Writer simply doesn't provide formatting at the level you want, or even a solid workaround. Writer does not support any sort of "list object" that you can apply formatting to, and list items are always separate paragraphs. In other words, Writer's "paragraph" object is structural and much more narrowly-defined than the semantic "paragraph" that you're describing. More practically, to fully style your "paragraph with embedded list", you may need separate paragraph styles for: * the text above the list, * the first list element, * the interior list elements, * the last list element, * and the paragraph after the list. You can see an example if you look through the pre-defined styles that come with Writer: some of the styles have been factored like that, e.g., "Numbering 1, Cont, Start, End". If a document has only a few lists, I generally don't bother with all the styles. I just add or remove some direct spacing as needed, at the final draft stage. There's no crime in using some tweaks like that. If you have a complex document, like a manual with a lot of lists, where you can really benefit from styled formatting around the lists, you can go with the full set of styles, or you could try a workaround of putting the list inside a frame: You can control the frame's spacing with a style, and it can be literally embedded inside a paragraph (anchored "as character") to avoid the paragraph above/below spacing. You can try a sample here: http://martnet.com/~jes/temp/List_in_frame.odt It looks ok, but it requires some ugly hacks like using white borders to control some of the spacing, and it all falls apart if you change certain parameters. Try changing the text body style to use justified alignment, or a line spacing other than "single". Try line spacing "fixed" for a chuckle. As I said, I think this is probably an abuse of Writer's design and not a general solution. I could only find one request for this, but I'm sure there are more: http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=34083
[users] Re: Draw: polygon crop
On 09/17/2009 02:42 PM, L Duperval wrote: ... I want the cropped picture to appear inside the polygon. ... Place a copy of the polygon over the image, and do Modify > Shapes > Intersect. This does not do a true clipping of the image by the polygon (see Issue 104035: http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=104035), but it may be "close enough" if you don't need to show a specific part of the image. If you do need to clip a specific part of the image, there is a workaround you can use, or you can try using Inkscape (www.inkscape.org) instead: it supports true polygon clipping for images.
[users] Re: Alternate Font Source
On 09/07/2009 12:39 PM, Joseph A Nagy Jr wrote: ... I've encountered a problem. That program isn't there. ... Ugh. Did you try a file search for it? It's not normally needed anymore, and I know there was some discussion of phasing it out altogether, but it's still distributed with the Linux package. I expect you could accomplish the same job manually, using a text editor, but I could only guess what might be involved. Maybe someone else has another idea...
[users] Re: Alternate Font Source
On 09/07/2009 01:56 AM, Joseph A Nagy Jr wrote:
...
Is there any way in the configuration that I could specify (and have OOo
reliably read) an alternate font directory?...
Check in the OOo section under the "Start" menu for something called
"spadmin". If it's not there, you'll have to run it from the command line.
Look in the directory where the OOo software ("soffice.exe") is
installed: you should have a program named "spadmin.exe". Run that--it
will give you a way to make extra fonts available to OOo.
Something to watch for: Beside the usual problems of finding a
particular font if you don't know the exact name, a long font list can
slow down certain operations, e.g. the right-click context menu, in some
situations.
[users] Re: Calc: Array Problem
On 08/31/2009 06:49 AM, Karti wrote:
Dear Joe,
Thanks for the clarification. Is it possible to translate this
http://www.cpearson.com/excel/betternetworkdays.aspx in calc?
Sorry, that's more than I can get into right now. There are some basic
things there that don't even look familiar to me; I can only guess that
they are "Excel-isms" that are not available in Calc.
There is a link there to a VBA version of the routine. That might
actually be easier to get working in Calc.
Hopefully someone else will have some suggestions.
There is a request for enhancement of the NETWORKDAYS function, to
include a way to specify which weekdays are not workdays:
http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=71059
You can register there and add your vote (up to two) or comment.
If I were doing this, I would first create a more general function that
returned a count of any weekday(s) between two dates. Then, the
NETWORKDAYS function is trivial and completely customizable:
DAYS(StartDate; EndDate) -
(COUNTDAYS(StartDate; EndDate; ("Sat", "Sun"))
[users] Re: Calc: Array Problem
On 08/28/2009 07:16 AM, Karti wrote:
Hi,
The following formula works perfectly in Excel but it does not work in Calc.
{=Row(1:12)}
Also the following doesn't work in Calc,
{=Row(Indirect("1:12"))}
...
You can use =ROW(A1:A12) or =ROW(INDIRECT("A1:A12")); they should work
in Excel as well. You can use any column--"A" is as good as any--but the
column has to be specified: Calc always requires both column and row in
a reference.
The second form is usually better, even though it's longer and even more
confusing, because the indirect reference won't be adjusted by the
application behind your back. If you use the first form, and later
insert a new row somewhere between A1 and A12, the formula will be
adjusted to =ROW(A1:A13), changing the size of the array and possibly
throwing off the calculation.
I often use a named expression to hide the contortions, something like
"INT1_100" for ROW(INDIRECT("A1:A100")).
And, if you only need 1..12, you might use an array constant, which is a
bit more obvious as to the purpose: {1|2|3|4|5|6|7|8|9|10|11|12}.
[users] Re: Write: How to manage Sections?
On 08/26/2009 06:15 AM, Alex Zachopoulos wrote:
I have this Write file which I am putting together, and I would like to keep
it organized with Sections, so that I can apply different settings to each
section, such as page borders, headers& footers etc.
...
I am trying to figure out how I can manage my sections so I actually
understand what I'm doing, but I find the documentation in the Help section
sadly lacking. Any tips?
The first key to understanding OOo Writer's "sections" is that the term
"section", as used in Writer, is somewhat misleading: a Writer section
has almost nothing to do with a section of a document, as I am familiar
with the term.
From what I read, Writer's "section" is also different than sections in
MS Word, and that seems to confuse a lot of people coming from Word.
A "section" in Writer is really just an arbitrary chunk of document
content, some paragraphs that are grouped together for some reason.
You don't need Writer's sections at all for most documents: They are not
needed for configuring the logical structure of a document, and they do
not participate in page layout at all. One (paper) page could comprise a
hundred Writer sections, or none; one Writer section could stretch over
many pages, even crossing major document divisions ('chapters' or whatever).
What most people think of as the sections of a document--the "logical"
sections--do not exist as a structural element in a Writer document.
Instead, logical sections exist only as indicated by the document layout
and formatting--primarily, numbered headings. The headings are merely
paragraphs: they do not structurally "include" or "contain" the text
that logically belongs to them. And, since the logical section is not a
structural element, there's no way to apply any format to a logical
section of a document.
Page layout and formatting is done through page styles, which are also
attached to paragraphs, usually through specific paragraph styles. E.g.,
a specific paragraph style is applied to the chapter headings and that
heading paragraph style also specifies that a "first page of chapter"
page style should take effect for that page.
The document creator is responsible for coordinating the document
headings with applying and changing the page styles as appropriate to
provide the layout and formatting of the document's logical sections,
and Writer's "section" element is not normally involved.
Maybe this will give you some perspective as you read through the Writer
Guide.
[users] Re: Calc: Empty Cells
On 08/15/2009 01:23 AM, Tamblyne wrote: I'm trying to copy certain cells from one sheet to another. If the first cell is empty, I want the second cell to be empty, too, ... Testing for empty cells can be a real mess, because there are various degrees of "emptiness" and the means of testing for it are not always consistent. Because of that, I try to avoid depending on whether a cell is empty or not, but if I really have to, I use the testing functions, not a comparison operator: =IF(ISBLANK(A1); "No value in A1"; A1+B1) or =IF(ISNUMBER(A1); A1+B1; "Need a number in A1") Things get even weirder when you start working with cells containing a copy or reference to a cell that may be empty. For example, Calc's behavior in this area was changed recently, and this summary was released: http://www.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=allfeatures&msgNo=3310 ... makes my eyes glaze over. Also, if there are hyperlinks in the cell in the first sheet, only the link text appears in the cell in the second sheet -- not the hyperlink that's supposed to go with it. Is there anything that can be done about that? Referencing a cell only copies its pure text or pure numeric value, never the formatting. Something like a hyperlink is more than a simple text or numeric value, so it can't be copied or referenced from another cell. If you have the hyperlink address in a cell--either as plain text, or as a live, clickable link--then the text value can be copied and you can use the HYPERLINK function to make a clickable link from the address text. E.g. A1: "http://www.openoffice.org"; -- plain text, or as a link B1: =A1 -- copy the text C1: =HYPERLINK(B1;"LINK") -- shows "LINK"; click goes to OO.org The HYPERLINK text doesn't get any special formatting; you can format it to look any way you want.
[users] Re: Vlookup
On 07/04/2009 12:36 AM, NoOp wrote: ... So he sent me both files. Problem is that the vlookup spreadsheet has a hardcoded link to the user directory and instead of #NAME error, I get a Error:501 (Invalid character) Any chance that the file path on the original system contains a 'funny' character, e.g. a single quote? OOo Calc is known to choke in such a situation, and something in the path seems to be confusing Calc--it hasn't even loaded the formula correctly (note the strange syntax: "[.$I$25]"). That would also explain why it works for one user and fails with another. A user name like "O'Brien" could cause such a problem.
[users] Re: Row number of last non-blank cell in column?
On 06/24/2009 01:31 PM, Mark Knecht wrote: Hi, I wonder if anyone knows of a function I might use to find the row number of the last non-blank cell in a column? ... Try =MAX(NOT(ISBLANK(A1:A65536))*ROW(A1:A65536)) as an array formula--use Ctrl+Shift+Enter to enter the formula.
[users] Re: Impress: animate text box
On 06/23/2009 08:12 AM, Dotan Cohen wrote: A non-techie user wants to start using Impress to make slides for his presentations. Until now he has been making .bmp slides in Paint! He wants to know if Impress can animate a slide like this: ... ... if someone could say "yes, this is possible" that would be great. Thanks! ... Possible? Yes. Pleasant? Effective? Well, you didn't ask for that... Here's one attempt; perhaps there are other approaches that I'm not aware of to make it appear as a continuous, smooth process. http://www.martnet.com/~jes/temp/anim_sample.odp
[users] Re: OOo Writer: saving and opening documents
On 06/23/2009 05:16 AM, AG wrote: ... I suppose another issue is the length of time it takes to autosave: with 3Gb of RAM and a further 3Gb allocated to my swap partition, one would think that there'd be plenty of memory for OOo to use in the save process I can only guess, but I believe that the autosave produces a file that is exactly the same as a regular save, so I doubt that the save time has much to do with available memory. I suspect it is more limited by disk access and maybe compression (cpu) time, and a different save strategy would be necessary to speed things up significantly. I think if I was focused on doing a lot of input and the autosave was a big distraction, I would consider turning it off and just make a habit of hitting Ctrl+S every couple of paragraphs, when I had a pause for some reason. It would be less distracting to save manually at a time when I was already 'shifting gears'. After all, the autosave is only insurance, and I don't think I've ever seen OOo just blow up and crash while I was typing. Here's the only relevant issue I could find: http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=25298
[users] Re: OOo Writer: saving and opening documents
On 06/19/2009 06:50 AM, AG wrote: ... How do I set it up so that when I open a document it defaults to opening it at the place I last worked on - i.e. the end of the document? OOo Writer tries to be smart here: if the document is opened by its author, the editing cursor and view are restored and you start out back where you last saved the document. If the document is opened by someone other than the author, it starts at the beginning. Great idea--in principle--but it's broken all too easily since the only way that OOo can determine whether the person opening the document is the author is to look at the name recorded under Tools > Options > OO.org > User Data, which can easily be incorrect or inconsistent across multiple systems or even across software upgrades. If you maintain the name in the user data consistently, then OOo will start your documents at the last saved position. For manual control, you can easily reach the end of the document with Ctrl+End, or the last editing position with Shift+F5. ... How do I set it up so that OOo Writer can do a background save that does not interrupt my work whilst it is saving and that the saving process doesn't return me to the page where the cursor is even when that page does not have focus - i.e. is not the page I am looking at at the time of the background save? ... It's not possible as far as I know. The simplest workaround is to either scroll using methods that also move the editing cursor: PgUp/Dn, Ctrl+Up/Down, and headings in the Navigator are the only ones I can think of; or to develop a habit of always moving the cursor to the area where you're working. There is a request to fix the view jumping on autosave: http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=81697 and the issue is getting some attention, but there also seems to be some confusion over the exact state of the problem at this point. What bugs me is that this nasty autosave hiccup still happens, even when the document has not changed since the last manual save.
[users] Re: Problem extracting the hour from a cell
Joe Smith wrote: ... Strangely, Calc chooses to display the result as if it were a time instead of just a normal decimal value. ... Oops, my bad. It's not Calc's fault at all. The original spreadsheet had formatted the result as a time, thus the integer results displayed as a time "12:00:00 AM". Calc's default formatting would have shown the results clearly.
[users] Re: Problem extracting the hour from a cell
John Meyer wrote: ... I am trying to extract the hour from a cell and put it into a second column, but when I use the HOUR() function all it returns is 12:00:00 AM This is a little tricky. Times in a spreadsheet are stored internally as fractions of one day. So all times, and all the times in your first column, are actually represented by values in the range [0,1). A date is stored as an integer number of days from some arbitrary starting date. Now, when you used B1: =HOUR(A1), the formula returns the hours portion of the time value: "05:45:49 AM" --> 5.00 (hours). But look: the result is not in the range for a valid time; the HOUR function does not return a time value at all, but a simple number of hours. Strangely, Calc chooses to display the result as if it were a time instead of just a normal decimal value. Since the result (an integer) will always have zero for the fractional part, when displayed as a time, the result will always be "12:00:00 AM". The integer part (5) is ignored. So, you can either manually change the number format in the second column to display decimal numbers, or you can use a custom format to display the number as a time, something like 0":00" Alternatively, you can simply copy the value from the first column, and use a custom time format to show only the hours; something like HH":00" or [HH]":00" Note that if you do that, the value in those cells will be different than what is displayed. If you need to do calculations with those values, you'll need to remember they are time values, not simply hours.
[users] Re: Inserting a list number in another location in a document
Timur Tabi wrote: On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 11:21 AM, Joe Smith wrote: ... You can also copy/paste any of the paragraphs from the list to another location and it will retain its identity as part of the original list. That does not work. When I paste the text, it does include the numbering. I have also been unable to copy just the numbering to the clipboard. So, after you type the /some-text-not-in-a-list/ paragraph(s), just copy/paste any of the list's items and paste it below. The numbering will be included, and you can just replace the duplicated text. That only works if I select a portion of the text before and after a single list item. This causes it to pick up nearby formatting, and the pasted text needs to have its formatting edited. Right. You can't do anything directly with the numbering that Writer generates automatically. It can't be selected, copied or pasted. It is only a result, generated from the paragraph's numbering style, which is part of the paragraph's formatting. To copy the paragraph numbering to another location, you must copy the paragraph break at the end of the paragraph. To do that, you can -- Select the entire paragraph with a quadruple-click, or -- Position the editing cursor after the last character in the paragraph and press Shift+Right to select the paragraph break alone. Pasting either of those into an empty paragraph in another location will include the list numbering. The second option will give you the numbering with an empty paragraph. Pasting either of those into a non-empty paragraph will paste only the text, without changing the formatting of the destination paragraph. I guess the format paintbrush is the only way to do exactly what you originally asked for.
[users] Re: Inserting a list number in another location in a document
Timur Tabi wrote: ... The trouble I'm having is inserting LX4. There does not appear to be a way to directly insert that LX4 into a new block of text. You can use the "Format Painbrush" from the toolbar to mark a paragraph as part of an existing list. With the editing cursor in the existing list, click the paintbrush, then click in the paragraph you want to add to the list. You can also copy/paste any of the paragraphs from the list to another location and it will retain its identity as part of the original list. So, after you type the /some-text-not-in-a-list/ paragraph(s), just copy/paste any of the list's items and paste it below. The numbering will be included, and you can just replace the duplicated text.
[users] Re: oocalc howto swich display formula/value
Alain Baeckeroot wrote: I need to often switch my display from formula to value... Is there a way to add a button for this in one toolbar, or defined a keyboard shortcut ? According to the help, it's available as Ctrl+` (that's a back-quote; the leftmost key on the number row--on US keyboards anyway). See Help > OOo Help > OOo Calc / Contents > Spreadsheets > General Information and UI Help > Shortcut Keys for Spreadsheets for a list. It seems to be available as View > .uno:ToggleFunction under Tools > Customize, so you should be able to change the shortcut or add it to a toolbar, if you like.
[users] Re: Dates In Calc
JOE Conner wrote: Dave Barton wrote: ... Format an empty Calc cell with an ISO 8601 date format (ie. -MM-DD) and then type, or paste, a date in US format (ie. MM/DD/) into the cell and the date is displayed as entered. Reformatting the cell after the date is entered does not change it to ISO 8601 format. Start with a brand new sheet and I think you'll find that what you wrote isn't entirely accurate. When I type into a cell already formatted as Date/-MM-DD, the entry is always displayed as called for by the format, as long as the value I enter is recognized as numeric for my locale, i.e. not a string. I can enter: 1/1, 09-01, 39814.0, or 3.9814e4 and they all display as 2009-01-01, according to the format. However, if I enter a text value: Xyz, or '1/1, or even '2009-01-01, they will be displayed as entered. The last one may look like a date, but it's not. Copy/pasting a cell is not the same as entering a value. When you paste a cell, or any other source of formatted material, Calc tries to preserve the formatting of the _source_ not the destination. If you want to preserve the cell format when you paste something, you have to use Edit > Paste Special as unformatted text, or excluding the cell format. I suspect that some of your dates may actually be text. You can see this if you press Ctrl+F8 to toggle "value highlighting": numeric dates will appear in blue, text values in black. My understanding was that Calc recognised different date formats and translated them according to the cell format. If this is not the case, could anyone suggest a method of translating the dates in an existing 600+ row sheet from MM/DD/ to -MM-DD Calc stores dates as numbers. I suspect that if you reformat the cells as numbers they would all convert. ... Changing the format of a cell /never/ changes the data that is stored in the cell. The format can only change the way the data is displayed. If the value in the cell is not the matching type (i.e. text value/date format), then Calc uses its default format to display the item. It's only when a value is entered that Calc examines it to see what kind of value it is, text or number. Fortunately, Edit > Find & Replace counts as 'entering' a value, even if the replacement is exactly the same as the original. So, you can use F&R to make mass changes of the data's type: Select your cells, then Edit > Find & Replace Search for: .* Replace with: & Options/Regular expressions: YES Options/Current selection only: YES Replace All Note 1: For dates to be converted to numeric values by this, the text must be recognized as a valid date _in your locale_. E.g. if I have text in a cell, "1.1.09" or "31/1/09" they will not be converted to numeric values because they are not valid dates under my locale (US English), even though they are valid dates in other locales. Calc will recognize an ISO 8601 date in any locale. Note 2: Using F&R like this can actually modify the data, so I don't recommend it unless you're sure you understand what you're doing. If Ctrl+F8 only shows a few text values, I would suggest that you fix them manually.
[users] Re: Calc font questions
Eustace wrote: ... Yes but in the Writer the bold font looks OK. I don't see why it shouldn't in Calc. It seems to me that they only have to replace the revelant code of the Calc with that of the Writer... For me, both Writer and Calc show the same problem with Lucida Console: the bold characters are wider than the normal-weight characters.
[users] Re: Calc font questions
Brian Barker wrote: At 22:09 25/03/2009 -0400, Eustace Fril wrote: OOo3 Calc: I have set as default font (template) for OOo Lucida Console 12. In the Writer everything is OK, in the Calc however: ... You mean bigger sideways, don't you? Interesting. Happens for me, too (3.0.1, Win XP SP3). Don't know. ... Same here (3.0.1 on Fedora Linux). I think it's because OOo is faking (crudely) a boldface font where there is no designed bold version. I get the correct results using Liberation Mono +/- bold, but there are two distinct fonts in that case: LiberationMono-Bold.ttf: Liberation Mono LiberationMono-Regular.ttf: Liberation Mono For Lucida Console, I have only one font file--I suspect that OOo is synthesizing the bold characters but failing to keep the character spacing the same. I'd call this a bug for monospaced fonts, but the synthetic bold may not be useful if the spacing were kept constant (characters running together), and it hardly seems worth the effort to fix when a workaround is easy: install the matching bold face (if there is one), or use a different font that has both weights.
[users] Re: Excel File Import into Calc
Gene Young wrote: Joe Smith wrote: ... Note: The cell format does not determine whether a cell holds a numeric value or a text value. That is determined by Calc's examination of the data when it is entered, and /nothing/ after will change its value type. Actually you can change it by editing the cell and removing the apostrophe. Try it. You're right--what I wrote wasn't very clear. Sorry. I didn't mean that the type of a value can never change, I meant that the only circumstance where the type can change is when the value is entered. And from Calc's point of view, editing a value is no different than entering a value. Either way, when you press Enter, Calc looks at the input and decides whether the input is text or numeric. So, for clarity, I should have written: .../nothing/ after will change its value type, other than a new data entry. Anything that causes Calc to re-examine the input can cause the value type to change, including a search and replace--even a search and replace that doesn't change the value at all. OTOH, changing the cell formatting will never change the value's type, even though it may change the value's appearance.
[users] Re: Excel File Import into Calc
S Perry wrote: ... I checked line by line. They LOOKED the same. I then inserted a new column and subtracted the second result from the first, expecting "0," row by row. Instead, the result was the value that appeared in both cells... most of the time. ... It's hard to be sure without having your actual sheet, but I believe this is the smoking gun: the only way this happens is if one of the two values is numerically zero, and since the columns appear to have the same value, that means that one is text, which Calc treats as zero when used in calculations. Excel silently converts the text string to its numeric value, whereas Calc is treating 30% of your numbers as zero. Excel tries to cover the mistake, whereas Calc tries to punish you for it. I've worked with spreadsheets since day one, over 25 years, and I've never encountered anything like this before, except when a cell was formatted as text, rather than a number. ... Sure, but have you ever tried to work with a spreadsheet imported from a different application? It's a lot more complicated to get right. Doing any important calculation on a spreadsheet is risky--more than most people realize: there are many subtle ways it can go wrong. But doing important calculations on a sheet passed between two different applications is downright foolhardy. That was very smart to double-check the results! It certainly can be done, but you have to know the "gotchas" (like this) to watch for, and how to code the sheet so that it works for both. Even then, it's still possible for someone to enter a text number in one and get the wrong answer in the other. Note: The cell format does not determine whether a cell holds a numeric value or a text value. That is determined by Calc's examination of the data when it is entered, and /nothing/ after will change its value type. Try this (in Calc): File > New > Spreadsheet A1: '123.45 A2: 123.45 Other than the alignment, they look the same. Both have format "Number/General". Hmm. Ok, now apply a 'real' numeric format from the list, say "0.00". Oops, they still look exactly the same, except for the alignment. Now menu View > Value Highlighting. The numeric value will appear in blue, the text in black. Try Value Highlighting on your sheet--I think you'll see a bunch of black (text) numbers.
[users] Re: Need help with formula syntax
John Jason Jordan wrote:
...
I finally got it to work with this syntax:
left lbrace alignl stack {`left [ +approximant right ]~"___
X"_0~"]"rsub stem # `left [ +nasal right ]~"___ X"_0~"]"rsub stem #
`left [ binom {+syllabic} {+front} right ]~"___ X"_0~"]"rsub stem # `
{"___ " _stem left [ +syllabic right ]} } right rbrace
Note that I changed the offending section from "stack" with the
elements separated by #, to "binom" without the #.
...
This seems to work for me:
left lbrace
alignl stack {
` left [ +approximant right ] ~
"___ X"_0 ~ "]" rsub stem #
` left [ +nasal right ] ~
"___ X"_0 ~ "]" rsub stem #
` left [
stack {
{+syllabic} #
{+front}
} right ] ~
"___ X"_0 ~ "]" rsub stem #
` {"___ "_stem left [ +syllabic right ]}
}
right rbrace
Or this (slightly) simpler version:
left lbrace
alignl ` stack {
[ +approximant ]~"___ X"_0~"]"_stem #
[ +nasal ] ~"___ X"_0~"]"_stem #
left [ stack {
{+syllabic} #
{+front}
} right ] ~"___ X"_0~"]"_stem #
"___ "_stem [ +syllabic ]
}
right rbrace
But maybe you need the exact appearance of the scaled square braces.
They look kind of strange to me (too thin).
[users] Re: Bug?
JOE Conner wrote: ... It seems to me that the Open Document format specifications should have nailed the format down precisely. Otherwise, the document can not fully portable. The ODF Formula specification specifies the semicolon as the function argument separator. However, the syntax specification only applies to the formula text that is stored in the document file. The application is free to use any character it wants, as long as it turns into a semicolon in the document file. I must admit, it took me a looong time to get used to typing semicolons instead of commas, like every other function syntax I've ever used. I still find myself tripping over it. I would be very happy to see OOo accept commas in the user interface when the effective locale would allow it, but it strikes me as opening a Pandora's box of complexity and bugs.
[users] Re: OOo3 non-root install
andrew.m.g...@l-3com.com wrote: I'm trying to install OpenOffice.org 3.0.1 without root access, but it isn't working for me, not without some extreme hackery. ... I am using CentOS 4.7. Root is not available to me. Do you need to use rpm? This produced a runable OOo for me: $ (cd $TARGET_DIR && for r in $SOURCE_DIR/OOO300_m15_native_packed-1_en-US.9379/RPMS/*.rpm; do rpm2cpio "$r" | cpio -id; done) This produced three directories in $TARGET_DIR: opt, etc and usr; the actual OOo files are under opt, the rest is jre stuff. I expect there must be some setup that this skips, but it seems ok with a 30s test.
[users] Re: [Impress] Is it possible to have a link to page 8 of presentation from page 16 and vice versa?
Michele Zarri wrote: ... There are two ways to achieve this. ... There is one other way: insert the repeated slide as a link 1) File > Save 2) Insert > File, then choose the same file as the current document 3) Select the slide you want to repeat from the list 4) Make sure the "Link" options is checked 5) OK I'm not saying this is better than the two methods M. Zarri already mentioned: The link is not "live", it is updated when you open the file (or when you manually update it through Edit > Links) and it won't pick up changes until they are saved in the disk file, but it does allow you to easily repeat a slide without any special navigation or setup. It would be more useful if you could simply copy/paste (as link), and if the linked slide was a live copy of the source.
[users] Re: Address Labels have the wrong page size.
NoOp wrote: ... I reckon that someone should file a bug. Search in the bug database shows some issues back in 2003, but nothing recent that I can find. A search of Writer issues with 'label page size' in the summary gave these (and a few other similar ones): Avery Letter Size 5160 Label Results in Wrong Page Dimensions http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=96856 Incorrect page size for A4 Avery labels. http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=91587 Label documents don't support page sizes http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=53718 However, I don't think this is exactly a bug--as in an error that needs to be corrected--as much as it is something that needs a new design. The problem is that the 'synchronize contents' function is based on making each label after the first a /section/ that links back to the first label. This means you get the sync function for free: it's exactly the same as Tools > Update > Links, but it also means that every label on the page has to be absolutely identical, and without using any other layout elements, e.g. tables, or even line breaks. The whole page is just a string of identical labels; you can think of them as a line of text, with each label being one character. They break into rows the same way a long paragraph breaks into lines: because of the page margins. The text for each label is contained in a frame. The gaps between the columns of labels are created by setting the "wrap" properties of the frame. If the label layout calls for 0.5" between the columns, then the wrap property is set to require a space on the right of the frame of 0.5". The space between rows is the same: it's the wrap/bottom spacing. Fine so far, but what about the last column of labels? They don't need the extra spacing--the page break makes it unnecessary--but they still have it because every label has to be identical. Nothing will ever print in that space, it's guaranteed to be empty, but the page has to be wide enough to allow the label, and the space, to fit within the page margins. So, OOo just calculates a page size that allows the necessary number of labels, each with it's spacing, to fit across the page. If the total width of the labels is 8.55", and the page size is set to "Letter", the line-breaking algorithm finds that it won't fit. But we know better: the last column includes 0.13" of guaranteed-empty space, so the actual content will not overflow an 8.50" piece of paper. The simplest solution is to just make the page width wide enough to allow the labels, with the extra space, to fit. This all works very well for a relatively simple design: it makes it easy to create a page layout on the fly from the label layout parameters, and avoids needing a full template document for hundreds of label types. However, the design also causes problems because of the custom page sizes, and the strange page layout makes it confusing and difficult for users to tweak. And, if there are printers (or software) that refuse to ignore the custom paper size, then I'd say that's a killer for this design. I have no better solution to propose; maybe the Format > Page > Columns workaround could somehow be used to avoid the need for custom page sizes. I've made my own table-layout labels, but having to sync them by cut/paste is a nuisance. I'm sure that could be automated easily, but needing a separate template document for each label type would be a bigger problem. Maybe the templates could be downloaded--most people won't need more than a few.
[users] Re: Two decimal numbers added give non two decimal number... bug?
Ely Schoenfeld wrote: ... I was already trying to fix the problem using ROUND in some places, like multiplications and divisions, but I steel had differences in my calculation (bigger than 0.01) at the end. Now I see that I have to add round to some places that I didn't thought to. ... You may want to look into setting the option Tools > Options > OOo Calc > Calculate > Precision as shown: YES (checked). This will force Calc to use the displayed (rounded) values for all calculations.
[users] Re: A little discussion on Calc and empty cells
Ambrogio De Lorenzo wrote: ... So I expect that if I use sumif(A1:A5;"";B1:B5) should sum values in B1:B5 only if the corresponding cells in column A is empty. ... It is true that OOo3 has changed the way empty cells are handled, but your situation is not a result of that (as far as I can tell). I get the same result as you if I use OOo 2.4.2; that's the oldest version I have to check. Your situation is combining two areas that are not well-designed: SUMIF and empty cells. SUMIF is a stange formula--well, the criteria part is anyway, and the behavior of empty cells is inconsistent in all spreadsheets. It is best to avoid depending on any particular behavior of an empty cell, especially if you're concerned about moving a document between different spreadsheet applications. Using OOo Calc, I could not find *any* way to get SUMIF to recognize empty cells. Instead, I suggest you try one of these approaches: * Avoid using empty cells: put some content in all cells of the criteria range, and explicitly test for some value. You can use "(none)" or something similar. Even ="" will work, but I don't recommend it. * Use a different function that can do proper tests. Something like =SUMPRODUCT(ISBLANK(A1:A3);B1:B3) will work in Calc, or =SUMPRODUCT(ISBLANK(A1:A3)+0;B1:B3) will work in both Calc and Excel.
[users] Re: Dots in horizontal center of page
Dotan Cohen wrote: I have a page with two columns that I must physically print and cut down the vertical middle. Therefore I would like to print a dot in the horizontal center top of the page and another in the horizontal center bottom of the page. I cannot find any facility for doing this in OOo. Is it possible? OOo 3.0, Ubuntu. Use the Drawing toolbar to draw a vertical line. Don't worry about the location or the size; make it vertical by holding shift while dragging the mouse. With the line selected, do Format > Object > Position and Size > Position and Size. Set: Anchor: To page Position: Horizontal: center To: entire page Vertical: top To: entire page Height: 5mm (or whatever; long enough to extend past the printer's margins into the printable area) OK Copy/paste a duplicate of the line and change its vertical alignment to "bottom".
[users] Re: Using unicode from keyboard
John Jason Jordan wrote: ... To find the Unicode number for a character go to Insert > Special Character and browse through all the characters until you find the one you need. ... You may want to take a look at the standard Character Map application; it's under "Accessories" in the desktop menu for Fedora Linux. I find it far easier to use, and more useful, than OOo's Insert > Special Character dialog. It includes a complete Unicode map--not limited to one selected font, full information about each character, and you can search the character names. This makes it much easier to locate the character you need. You can copy/paste characters into OOo, or drag them from the map into your document. The characters are entered as pure characters, without tying them to a specific font as the OOo special character dialog does. I'm using the Gnome map, but there are similar facilities for KDE and Windows, as well as Mac, I expect.
[users] Re: date&time in one field
Brian Barker wrote: ... Date and time values are stored in Calc as fractional numbers of days; they display as they do only because of the cell formatting. ... Along with Brian's nice explanation, you may want to bookmark http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/How_Tos/Calc:_Date_%26_Time_functions#Date_and_Time_overview for a nice overview of how Calc handles date-time values, and easy access to excellent descriptions of the relevant functions.
[users] Re: Calc Challenge, Average using an array lookup not working...
Joe Smith wrote: ... For a sample sheet, see http://www.martnet.com/~jes/temp/range_select_example.ods Or, editing your attached sample: http://www.martnet.com/~jes/temp/EverGreen_576E165_ECR+evalV0.50_edit.ods
[users] Re: Calc Challenge, Average using an array lookup not working...
Rogier van Vlissingen wrote:
Well, you got me experimenting, but this isn't it yet, but I did some
editing to clarify the problem:
...
On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 16:29:31 -0500, Erik Remmelzwaal
...
I assume that your lookups return both corner coordinates of the array
as a string like "B2" and "C5"
You can than write a formula like:
=AVERAGE(INDIRECT("B2:C5"))
...
I prefer to avoid constructing an address or range through INDIRECT
unless absolutely necessary. There are too many ways for it to break, in
part because the addresses in such formulas are not adjusted if things
get moved around.
In most cases, the OFFSET function can be used instead, and it uses only
normal references.
If I understand what Rogier is after, this case can be handled with a
formula something like this:
=AVERAGE(OFFSET(Data_Table; Row_Offset; Col_Offset; 1;
End_Period-Start_Period+1))
For a sample sheet, see
http://www.martnet.com/~jes/temp/range_select_example.ods
[users] Re: How do you merge to a "directory"
Barbara Duprey wrote: S Perry wrote: This is also called in MS Word a "catalog." ... OOo's mail merge has this kind of capability ... once you create a table with the fields inserted from the database, and with the final cell of the row ending with the "next record" field, it should fill in just fine. ... Nope. That's exactly what's missing. There's no way, in Writer, to say "replicate everything from here... to here, enough times to consume all the records in the current data source." The mail merge operation does that implicitly, by replicating the entire page (document?), but that usually isn't helpful for making a catalog- or directory-type document. Here's the relevant issue: Merge to catalog/list/address book not possible http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=25804 Sun's Report Builder extension has the capability to replicate a set of fields as needed to consume all the data, but the only output I've ever seen from it is a (text) table row. I.e., the result is a big Writer table with each row corresponding to one database record. That seems like a significant limitation to me, but honestly I can't think of any specific layout that couldn't be done as a table row. And I've never worked with the Report Builder beyond trying some of the examples, so I may be missing something important.
[users] Re: How do you merge to a "directory"
Brian Barker wrote: At 17:30 04/01/2009 -0800, Allan Abrahamse wrote: How do I use openoffice writer to create a "directory" ... I don't know that you can use Mail Merge in this way - at least, not directly. Here is a slightly messy workaround, ... I have also just used copy/paste to replicate enough database fields to handle all the records, then used 'Data to Fields' to fill them. As long as your 'directory' isn't the Manhattan phone book or the Sears catalog, it's manageable. I usually make more fields than I have records, then manually delete the empty ones after merging the data, but you could use conditions to hide the empty ones. This does get fiddly when you have headers or other breaks at specific places in the data, e.g. alphabetic sections. They have to be positioned by hand--well at least I haven't thought of a better way to handle it. Even so, it's a few minutes of copy/paste.
[users] Re: copying a single cell array formula by dragging it down
Ken Jolliffe wrote: I have written a simple single cell array formula but when I drag it down to copy to the cells below the relative reference does not change ... Calc handles drag-fills of array formulas differently than normal formulas. It expands the area covered by the original array formula rather than making new copies of it with the references adjusted. You can see this if you drag-fill your array formula, then type Ctrl+/ to select all cells belonging to the formula. You'll see that all the cells that you dragged into now belong to the one, original array formula. The references are not adjusted because there is only one formula. Instead of using a drag-fill, just copy the array formula cell and then paste it into the other cells where you want it. This will give you separate copies of the single-cell array formula, with the references adjusted as usual. You should be careful to understand what you're doing here: drag-filling an array formula often means that the user is confused: array formulas do their own reference adjusting without needing separate copies like normal formulas.
[users] Re: Formating Fields
Bob Estes wrote: I have found a problem in formating input fields. ... Does anyone have any ideas on how to correct this problem? Yow. This task is a 'perfect storm' of things that Writer does badly. Here's a sample with two different approaches: - A two-column table with a calculation that adds the cells in the column two, and - Text paragraphs with user and formula fields. http://www.martnet.com/~jes/temp/Contract_calculations.odt Neither of these is entirely satisfying, IMO, but maybe it will give you some ideas. Input fields can't be formatted--they're meant for text. The formatting set on a table cell does not apply to any kind of field in the cell. The field's formatting takes precedence. Contracts like this that I've seen use dotted leaders between the text and the numbers. Leaders are easy in a text paragraph, but a lot harder when you need to span columns in a table. You can work around the margin problems in text paragraphs by using a spacer frame to keep the text out of the right side of the text area, but allow the last line, with the amount, extend to the right margin. It's a real ugly hack, but I don't see any clean way to get a paragraph shaped the way you want it. Variables and user fields can be formatted, but they aren't as well-suited for input: you have to know to double-click on them to change the value, they don't provide any input help, and the value entry is buried under other distracting stuff that's not needed.
[users] Re: WRITER: Search for Special Characters, Invisible Characters, Character Styles, Markers of Type X
VLM TechSubs wrote: We are exploring the search (ctrl-f) function in Writer. We see how to search for many things, but not yet for special characters (em dash, ellipsis), invisible characters (end of paragraph and the like), character styles, or for, say, markers of a given type. You've lumped some concepts together that involve different approaches. * Special characters: You can always enter the literal character you want to search for, although it can be a challenge to enter characters that don't appear on the keyboard. You can open the Insert > Special Character dialog for most text entry fields with a shortcut (Ctrl+Shift+S on Linux & Windows), but not every character can be entered using the Special Character dialog, unfortunately. * Invisible characters: Most of these are literal characters in the document and work as described above. You can search for any actual character that appears in the document by entering it in the Search For field--as long as you can figure out how to type it. Here's a couple of examples: Tab -- Can't be typed in a dialog, although it can entered by its code in Linux, but not Windows. You can copy it from your text and paste it into the search box on any platform. The special characters under Insert > Formatting Mark all work similar to tab. There are two that are 'almost characters': line breaks and paragraph breaks. They behave in some ways like actual characters in the text, even though they aren't literally characters in the text. You have to search for these using OOo's "regular expressions" (wildcard patterns). Set the Option > Regular expressions: ON. You can search for line breaks using the pattern \n, or paragraph breaks with $. Line breaks almost always behave like simple characters; paragraph breaks only behave like simple characters if you search for the pattern $ all by itself. Regular expressions also provide codes for other special characters either by name (tab: \t) or by character code (tab: \x0009) Character Styles: There is no way to search for character styles by name, although you can search for the formatting they specify (Options > Including Styles: YES). You can support adding this feature to OOo by registering and voting for: Allow search and replace of character styles in "Find and Replace" http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=2997 You can search for paragraph styles by name. I do see the checkbox for "Search for Styles", but this seems only to make available paragraph styles and nothing else. It works for formatting derived from character styles as well. Because the Find and Replace dialog tries to be 'smart' about adjusting itself to the type of search you want, getting the desired combination of options and settings can be a challenge. It seems to depend on the exact order that you select things and what (if anything) is in the Search for box. I feel certain we are simply missing something. How can we conduct such searches? One unusual feature of OOo's Find and Replace is that it is "non-modal." I.e. you can switch between the dialog and the document at any time. This leads to some very handy functionality that isn't built in to the F&R dialog itself. E.g. you can search for a pattern of characters, click "Find All", then simply set the formatting for each matching text using the normal Writer interface. You can also do combined searches by using the "Current selection only" option. E.g. you could search for "the first word of all level 2 headings". Here are two good sources of information for Regular Expression use and syntax: Regular Expressions in Writer http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/How_Tos/Regular_Expressions_in_Writer Regular expression samples http://www.oooninja.com/2007/12/example-regular-expressions-for-writer.html I'm sure there is an issue for adding "MS compatible" wildcard support, but I can't find it. Many things that you can't directly search for can be located using the Navigator (F5): graphics, tables, frames, links, etc. Some things, e.g. fields, have special navigation buttons in their settings dialogs that allow stepping through each occurrence in the document. I agree: the user interface for all this is rather disorganized and awkward in many places, but there is a lot of good functionality once you know where to look.
[users] Re: Determine version from command line
James Montgomery wrote: ... I was hoping there was something as simple as ./soffice --version. Close: $ ooffice -help OpenOffice.org 2.4 680m18(Build:9364) ... $ ooo241 -help OpenOffice.org 2.4 680m17(Build:9310) ... This doesn't show the minor version number which is visible in the Help > About dialog in the GUI.
[users] Re: WRITER: Neutral settings for Character Styles
VLM TechSubs wrote:
...
Is there a way to create character styles, such that only specified font
properties are affected?
Yes, although the user interface is awkward and there are some glitches
which can make it difficult to manage effectively.
In the Styles and Formatting dialog, with the character style list
displayed, right click on Default and choose "New...". On the
"Organizer" tab, you will see that the new style is "linked with" the
Default style. Whatever settings you don't change in your new style will
be inherited from the "linked" base style.
Switch to the Font tab and change the typeface to italic, then switch
back to the Organizer tab and look at the "Contains" display: it should
have only the new typeface information. That means that this character
style contains only the face change and everything else is inherited
from the base style.
Switch to the Position tab and change to superscript. Check the
Organizer > Contains again to see how the style contents changes.
Click OK to save the style, then right-click it's name in the styles
list and choose "Modify...".
Suppose you need to remove the position change (superscript) from the
style and revert to the inherited setting. Switch to the Position tab
and click "Standard". That will appear to change the settings, but what
it actually does it remove the settings contained in this style. The
settings now shown on the Position tab are actually the inherited
settings after the superscript setting was removed.
Go back to the Organizer tab and check the Contents. It may or may not
still show the superscript setting in the list. I find that sometimes I
have to actually confirm the change ("OK") and re-open the dialog before
the Contents list is updated.
If you play with the style definition a bit you're likely to find other
glitches, more or less serious, but with some fiddling you should be
able to get what you need.
[users] Re: set date format as default
Brian Barker wrote: ... But the claim I was trying to make still stands: that -MM-DD is easily available in OpenOffice, ... A matter of opinion, but I don't think "easily" is the appropriate adjective here. It's embarrassing that a task as simple and as common as inserting the current date, in a format easily configured by the user and remembered as the default for future use, remains out of reach. Even if the user succeeds in finding and configuring a format for the date field, the entire process has to be repeated every time, and there is no way to set a format shared by all the dates in a document. Wouldn't this be solved if OOo exposed the detailed locale settings for configuration? Load defaults from the system, but allow the user to change them, then use them as the default formats for things like date and currency. I believe these are the most relevant issues, if you'd like to support them with more votes: Ability to set the default date format http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=30216 Support default value for measurement units,paper size,date/number format settings http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=39733
[users] Re: Reducing complexity of formula in Calc
Brian Barker wrote: ... If so, you can do this using an array formula. Enter this into your result cell: =SUM(C2:G2*(C2:G2-1))/(SUM(C2:G2)*(SUM(C2:G2)-1)) ... Nicely done! Just one pointless point: The numerator SUM(C2:G2*(C2:G2-1)) is equivalent to SUMPRODUCT(C2:G2;C2:G2-1) in which case you don't need the (minor) bother of an array formula. I don't know if there is any performance difference, but you might find one or the other is faster, once you scale up to many cells.
[users] Re: How to manually remove the lock on a file?
Ulrich Becker wrote: ... But where is this lock information stored and how can I remove it? I prefer not to have that sort of leftovers in a hidden database ... To lock a document file named "letter2mom.odt", Ooo 3 will create a lock file alongside the document called .~lock.letter2mom.odt# That's lockletter2mom.odt The "letter2mom.odt" part will vary, matching the name of the file that is locked. The rest of the lock file name is constant. File names beginning with a period are (by convention) not listed on Unix-like systems, so you may have to do something to make them visible in your file browser. You can list them from a command shell with something like $ ls -a or $ ls .~* You can remove the lock files from your file manager, or using a command like $ rm -i .~lock.*# Do I really need to warn you to be careful doing mass deletions of files in the same directory as your documents? I thought not ;-)
[users] Re: [OOo Draw] Importing custom shapes
Bart Friederichs wrote: ... You can add shapes to the Gallery from a drawing by drag & drop, but you still have to do it one shape at a time. That doesn't seem to work. Could you be just a little more specific? ;-) Well, let me guess that OOo's slightly peculiar drag and drop interface is causing the problem... In an open drawing, with a shape selected and the Gallery panel visible, left-click on the shape and *hold the mouse button down without moving the mouse for about one second*. The mouse cursor will change to show that OOo has started a drag/drop sequence. Now drag the shape into the open Gallery panel and release the mouse button.
[users] Re: [OOo Draw] Importing custom shapes
Bart Friederichs wrote: Cor Nouws wrote: Bart Friederichs wrote (15-10-2008 14:28) I would like to extend the shapes I have in OOo Draw. I found already shapes in .odg files (http://lautman.net/mark/coo/index.html), but I cannot find how I could import them in my shape-toolbar. How do I get them in my toolbar? You can import them in the Galery (Tools|Galery). Not exactly want I want. I cannot import ODG files and I would like to have them in the list next to the "Block Arrows", "Flow Charts", etc. The gallery feels a little like importing OLE objects. It does work though, but I have to select each single object from the ODG and export it as EMF to be able to import it into the Gallery. There is no method provided for creating or extending the toolbar shape palettes. You can certainly dive in and do it yourself using the same methods the developers used to create them, but my guess is that's not a simple process. The Gallery is really the feature that's designed for this, although I find it so clunky and awkward to use, that I usually prefer to simply copy/paste from another drawing. You can add shapes to the Gallery from a drawing by drag & drop, but you still have to do it one shape at a time.
[users] Re: Table formating: whole page
Dotan Cohen wrote: Sorry for the delay. We have a new baby in the family! Yow! Congratulations! Here's a shot based on the linked sections document: http://www.martnet.com/~jes/public_html/temp/quarter_page.odt Quoth the server, 404. Arr. My duh. http://www.martnet.com/~jes/temp/quarter_page.odt ... The row height has to be set manually; I don't see any way around that. I suppose that it is my XHTML-trained self that does not like mixing presentation and semantics. But I can live with it. A fine ideal, but in Writer it's a lost cause I'm afraid.
[users] Re: Table formating: whole page
Dotan Cohen wrote: I have a page that must be divided into four equal parts, two vertically and two horizontally (2x2). Is there a 'smart' way of doing this? I have tried all the table formating options that I could find and the best that I could do was to measure and set the width and height according to half the page size, and to remove "Fit To Size". The problem with this approach is that there forms a new, blank page after the page in question, and that it seems like a work-around more than a solution. Any tips would be appreciated. Thanks! Here's a shot based on the linked sections document: http://www.martnet.com/~jes/public_html/temp/quarter_page.odt The table in the original document behaves a little strangely, apparently because of the three cells that have only the linked, protected sections, with no editable paragraph. I added a plain empty paragraph to each of those cells, then marked them as 'hidden' with a field. I also marked the trailing paragraph after the table as hidden, to prevent the extra page. You can choose not to view the hidden stuff with View > Hidden Paragraphs: OFF, or use File > Page Preview. As for the table dimensions, a normal table will adjust to fill the space between the margins, so the column width is automatic here. The row height has to be set manually; I don't see any way around that.
[users] Re: Repeating data in OOo Writer
Dotan Cohen wrote: ... How can I have [it] so that I can simply update one list and the others update automatically? ... One way would be to use the technique that Writer uses for label sheets. A section can get its contents through a link to another section. So you make one section the master, and all the others link to that. The linked sections are not updated automatically. Writer offers to update them when the document is loaded, or you can update them manually using Tools > Update > Links. You can assign a keyboard shortcut to that action to make it a little more convenient. Here's a sample document: http://www.martnet.com/~jes/temp/linked_sections.odt
[users] Re: Round of in Calc
Erling Larsen wrote: ... This work fine but my problem is, that i need the second decimal to be either 0 or 5. Your calculation works, but it is more complicated than it needs to be. Calc always stores times as decimal values, but in days, not hours. All you should need is =MROUND(H7*24;0.05)
[users] Re: Is there Calc function to chose variable from the table on the base of 2 search criteria in the first row and the column?
Andis wrote: I'm looking if there is easy possibility to chose variable from the table, like in example below, ... Maybe something like this: =INDEX(RegData; MATCH(Height;RegHeights;1); MATCH(Species;RegSpecies;0)) The first MATCH produces the row number; the second the column.
[users] Re: Conditional sum of products?
Mark Knecht wrote: ... I need to get the sum of column 1 * column 2 but only when the value in column 1 is either negative or positive. Hmm, "either negative or positive"? SUMPRODUCT(A1:A5; B1:B5) will do that, since your condition is true for every number I can think of. If you mean "only when the value in column 1 is not zero", you can use something like =SUMPRODUCT(A1:A5<>0; A1:A5; B1:B5) or "only when the value in column 1 is positive": =SUMPRODUCT(A1:A5>0; A1:A5; B1:B5)
[users] Re: INTERESTING SUMPRODUCT OBSERVATION.?
James Elliott - WA Rural Computers wrote: ... ie. I made it read: =SUMPRODUCT(chqDEBIT,chqCODE=A13,chqDATE>=$D$4,chqDATE<=$D$5) and the formula no longer worked! The sumproduct total I had in that cell just disappeared - no error message, just no result. If you're working in Calc then you need semicolons instead of commas. It works for me if I make that change.
[users] Re: INTERESTING SUMPRODUCT OBSERVATION.?
James Elliott - WA Rural Computers wrote: ... So, in Calc (forget Excel) we can use either of these formats, can we?: =SUMPRODUCT(A1:A3000; D1:D3000<=TEST) or =SUMPRODUCT((A1:A3000)*(D1:D3000<=TEST)) Am I correct? Yes, I believe that is correct. Logical tests in Calc always produce numeric 0 or 1, so the simple arguments will work fine for Calc. That's not true for Excel, so if you need to move the same sheet between Calc and Excel, you must use the second form to force the logical test results to be converted to 0 or 1. It isn't /needed/ for Calc, but it works the same on both.
[users] Re: INTERESTING SUMPRODUCT OBSERVATION.?
Joe Smith wrote: James Elliott - WA Rural Computers wrote: When I saved a Calc spreadsheet in Excel format to send to my Accountant, the SUMPRODUCT formulas did not work because a Calc formula like this: =SUMPRODUCT(A1:A3000; B1:B3000) was converted to : =SUMPRODUCT(A1:A3000, B1:B3000) ie semicolons ";" replaced with commas "," but Excel wanted it in this format: =SUMPRODUCT((A1:A3000)*( B1:B3000)) ... ... As far as I know, SUMPRODUCT works the same way in both Excel and Calc, and the syntax with comma-separated arguments is correct for Excel, so I'm wondering how/why that would generate an error in Excel. The alternative using an explicit multiplication is just another way to do the same calculation, like writing SUM(3+3+3) instead of SUM(3;3;3), so the difference must be something subtle. Ok, 30 seconds of googling tells me that Excel users seem to write SUMPRODUCT almost exclusively in the second form. However 30 minutes of searching hasn't brought me any clear description of _why_ they do it. As far as I can see, it's because everyone else writes it that way. I suspect it has something to do with how the two forms treat non-numeric items in the data. SUMPRODUCT(a,b) treats any non-numeric values (e.g. text or boolean values) in a or b as zero, effectively ignoring them in calculating the result. The second form, SUMPRODUCT(a*b), will carry out the normal Excel conversion of text to numbers and boolean tests to 0 or 1. My guess is that someone started writing "a*b" just so that the calculation would include any text or boolean values that Excel would otherwise calculate with, and the practice just caught on so that people write it that way whether it's necessary or not. I also see lots of examples using SUMPRODUCT(--(a),--(b)), which is another way to force a conversion to numeric value for each item in the range. I suppose, for best compatibility with Excel, the "a*b" form would be the one to use. It shouldn't make any difference for straight numeric data like your example, but for logical tests, the "a*b" will work in both Calc and Excel, but "a,b" will only work in Calc.
[users] Re: INTERESTING SUMPRODUCT OBSERVATION.?
James Elliott - WA Rural Computers wrote: When I saved a Calc spreadsheet in Excel format to send to my Accountant, the SUMPRODUCT formulas did not work because a Calc formula like this: =SUMPRODUCT(A1:A3000; B1:B3000) was converted to : =SUMPRODUCT(A1:A3000, B1:B3000) ie semicolons ";" replaced with commas "," but Excel wanted it in this format: =SUMPRODUCT((A1:A3000)*( B1:B3000)) ... How did it "not work" in Excel? Did you get an error; if so, what was it? Did you get the wrong answer, or something else? What suggested to you that Excel wanted the other syntax? As far as I know, SUMPRODUCT works the same way in both Excel and Calc, and the syntax with comma-separated arguments is correct for Excel, so I'm wondering how/why that would generate an error in Excel. The alternative using an explicit multiplication is just another way to do the same calculation, like writing SUM(3+3+3) instead of SUM(3;3;3), so the difference must be something subtle.
[users] Re: Having trouble indenting text in documents.
Jim Allan wrote: Joe Smith wrote: Also, it would be nice if Writer supported this as an actual list (a "dictionary list" in HTML). Writer provides no good way to sort the list, or even to manually re-order it. Highlight what you want to include in your list and then use Tools → Sort Each line(paragraph) in your text will be sorted in relation to the other lines(paragraphs). Or perhaps I am not understanding what you want. The goal is to sort a "dictionary list" by the head words, keeping each head word and its definition paragraph(s) together. If the list is unstructured paragraphs, you can't use the built-in sort: it won't move the head word and the definition paragraph together as a unit. Moving them manually using cut+paste is a big chore. I figured it would be easier if they were in a two-level list. At least then you could use the "move with subpoints" function on the bullets & numbering toolbar to move whole entries with one mouse click. However, if you put the dictionary items in a list, once you change the numbering type to "none", Writer no longer offers the list functions. You have to set a numbering type, move the items, then re-configure the list to not display the numbering. Why should numbering type "none" disable the list functions? It might be a nice enhancement if Writer could sort a list using the top-level items as the key. Just an observation, not a big deal. I've come across one or two cases where I wanted to sort a structured list, but it's hardly a common problem.
[users] Re: Having trouble indenting text in documents.
Jason Cipriani wrote: ... What is the most convenient way to format this document like above as I'm entering the text? Just a point of information, since others have already answered the question. Writer includes pre-defined styles for this: "List Heading" and "List Contents". Also, it would be nice if Writer supported this as an actual list (a "dictionary list" in HTML). Writer provides no good way to sort the list, or even to manually re-order it. If you configure it as a list, with no numbers or bullets, the list structure is not accessible from the GUI, even though it is still there in the XML. E.g. the "Bullets and Numbering" toolbar doesn't show itself, and if you manually activate it, the "Move with sub-points" functions are disabled.
[users] Re: Customize Status bar
emf wrote: ... I have style Heading 2 between 2 paragraphs. The style of the paragraphs is double spaced. I want to position the heading exactly between the end line of the first paragraph and the last line of the second paragraph. ... Thanks for trying to help me see how this works. Sorry, I'm just dense, but I don't understand what you're after here. Did you mean to say "... the _first_ line of the second paragraph."? It seems that's what you meant judging from the context. Next, what do you mean by "exactly between"? That sounds like you want to center the heading in the vertical space between the two paragraphs. But if that's what you want, why don't you make the "above" and "below" space the same? It is true that, if you make them the same, then the header isn't perfectly centered when the default line spacing is "double", but your example of 0.18 above and 0.36 below doesn't look centered at all, so I think I still don't understand the effect you're after. I certainly wouldn't say you're too particular; I'm the same way: I want my documents to look nice. I've just never noticed a need to measure distances or positions off the page that I'm working on. Sometimes I have to do a quick addition or subtraction to get the right distance to enter, but you'll have the same problem with a cursor position, right? One trick you can use to measure distances on your working page is to use the Drawing toolbar to insert a rectangle. The exact position and size of the rectangle is shown in the status bar, and you can easily move or resize the rectangle to measure horizontal or vertical distances. Just delete it when you're finished. Sorry I'm not getting it; I really would like to understand how this would work.
[users] Re: Customize Status bar
emf wrote: How do I customize the Status toolbar (the one at the bottom of the window) in the OOWriter so that it will show the position of the cursor (Page, Line, Position on the line) like in WP? ... While I respect the fact that many people ask for this feature, I have yet to hear a convincing argument the the information is actually necessary. Yes, some people are comfortable with creating a document layout working from the cursor position, but that seems to me a difficult and primitive way to do the job, given Writer's support for exact margins and indents by simply entering a distance. Even reading the position from the ruler would be preferable to using a cursor position--as far as I can see. Can anyone help me understand exactly what the cursor position is needed for?
[users] Re: Using variables in Writer, specifically in the equation editor
Dotan Cohen wrote:
2008/8/30 Michele <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
Remember that you have to press F9 or Tools > Update > Fields to...
guess what? update the fields :-)
Fields are otherwise updated before you print, when you save the
document and at some other events (maybe).
I just discovered this one minute before I read your post. In fact, I
came back to mention F9.
Use variables instead of fields, they will update automatically.
E.g. Insert > Fields > Other > Variables > Set variable
Name: SPEED
Value: 2000
Name: DISTANCE_FROM_AXIS
Value: (200*10^3)/(2*PI*SPEED)
...
But then I use the result 15.9155 later in the paper to see how much
distance the tool had traveled over the surface of the metal:
PASSES={30-DISTANCE_FROM_AXIS}/0.3
sum from{n=0} to{PASSES} {2 cdot %pi cdot (DISTANCE_FROM_AXIS + 0.3 cdot n)}
...
If I could use variables in the Equation Editor I would save about an
hours work each time the revs change. And as we experiment with
different lube formulas, the revs change often.
There is no way to pass information into or out of OOo's formula editor.
I know I've seen people ask about doing it, so there is certainly some
interest, but I can't find any feature request in Issuezilla for it.
But even if you get around the live formula values problem, neither
Writer, nor even Calc, will make your last calculation: you need a loop
for a sum like that.
MathCAD is the only tool I know of for doing what you describe.
[users] Re: OOo slows down on a page which has eps figure
H.S. wrote: ... In conclusion, if an eps file with a preview is used in OOo, OOo does not slow down on the page which contains that file but also it retains the low res in the exported PDF file. Printing the document gives the right eps in the output though. This is the expected behavior. If an EPS graphic has no preview, OOo will generate one by calling ImageMagick, which calls Ghostscript to generate a preview. All of that is a fairly heavyweight operation and it slows OOo down. I guess the preview is not saved or cached, so it's regenerated every time it's needed. Exporting the EPS to PDF would require converting the Postscript code in the EPS to PDF--a non-trivial conversion which OOo does not support, so EPS graphics are only exported to PDF as the preview image. OOo's normal printed output (on Unix anyway) has always been Postscript, so to print an EPS, all OOo has to do is include the EPS Postscript code in the printer output stream. No conversion is required and you get a full-resolution graphic. The workaround if you need higher quality in a PDF is to either generate a high-quality preview image, or use File > Print > Print to file to get PS output (including the EPS code) and then convert that to PDF with ps2pdf. See: eps rendering very slow while scrolling http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=77068 Render EPS graphics without previews http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=9290 EPS content is not exported to pdf properly http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=14163
[users] Re: Import TAB-delimited files into Calc
Tim Johnson wrote: Hi: Have files with following format: First line: column names, delimited by TABs, no text qualifiers Following lines: cells delimited by TABS. I would like to import such a file into calc. ... For importing text data in Calc, I use and recommend this: 1) Insert > Sheet From file 2) File name: data.text (e.g.) 3) File type: Text CSV -- It's not actually necessary to set the file type, but I usually do it anyway, out of habit. 4) Click "Insert" This will bring up the text import dialog window, where you can set your separator character and column data types. This works for files having any name or extension (i.e. no need to rename your data file) and it avoids having OOo decide to open the file in Writer, or indeed, having the data file opened at all. Opening a file in OOo has a special meaning and can easily lead to losing work if you open a text file. I generally avoid File > Open for anything except ODF files.
[users] Re: OOwriter equivalent of html tag?
Larry Evans wrote: ... Is there a way to just say I want another paragraph under the existing list item? Look on the Bullets and Numering toolbar, there's a button with the tooltip "Insert Unnumbered Entry". You can also do this with the keyboard: when you type Return to start a new paragraph and Writer shows a new numbered entry, type Backspace: the number (or bullet) will be removed but the paragraph is still part of the list.
[users] Re: dependency failure for recent DEV300 rpm installs
NoOp wrote: It's in the deb's as well. See: http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=90955 http://www.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=releases&msgNo=12153 I'm downloading m21 now to see if it also has the problem. There is at least on OOo project member that doesn't believe this to be a problem... so please add to 90955 to confirm that ooobasis3.0-binfilter and ooobasis3.0-en-us-binfilter are also broken in the rpm's. Thanks! Done. I missed it as my IZ searches all included 'rpm'. Thanks again.
[users] dependency failure for recent DEV300 rpm installs
The last couple of OOo 3.0 snapshots have failed to install using my usual routine; I get an error like so (on Fedora 9): # cd DEV300_m20_native_packed-1_en-US.9318/RPMS # rpm -ivh --prefix=/mnt/extra/opt/DEV300_m20 *.rpm error: Failed dependencies: ooobasis3.0-calc is needed by ooobasis3.0-binfilter-3.0.0-9318.i586 ooobasis3.0-draw is needed by ooobasis3.0-binfilter-3.0.0-9318.i586 ooobasis3.0-impress is needed by ooobasis3.0-binfilter-3.0.0-9318.i586 ooobasis3.0-math is needed by ooobasis3.0-binfilter-3.0.0-9318.i586 ooobasis3.0-writer is needed by ooobasis3.0-binfilter-3.0.0-9318.i586 ooobasis3.0-en-US is needed by ooobasis3.0-en-US-binfilter-3.0.0-9318.i586 I've just been installing the *binfilter* rpms with "--nodeps" and things seem to work, so I'm thinking it may be a simple packaging problem but I don't understand the new packaging scheme well enough to guess whether it's a bug, or just my ignorance. Anyone else see this? Any ideas what the problem is?
[users] Re: writer, table formulas: copy formulas as in scalc
Uwe Brauer wrote: ... Does not work for me OO 2.3 on Linux Kubuntu. How are you doing this exactly? I'm using Fedora-packaged 2.4.1 but I don't remember ever noticing that formulas were not adjusted, nor can I find any issues recently fixed. I copy/pasted entire table cells, not just the contents. Other than that, I can't think of anything special. Maybe one of these will work/shed some light... http://jes1154.googlepages.com/table_formula.avi (WMV;1M) http://jes1154.googlepages.com/table_formula.ogv (OGG;0.5M)
[users] Re: writer, table formulas: copy formulas as in scalc
Uwe Brauer wrote: ... 5 6 sum(A3:B3) However although I can in writer define formulas in tables, this particular feature seems not to be implemented. ... Formula references are adjusted in Writer just as they are in Calc, however the formula syntax is quite different in Writer: the formula you're using is valid in Calc but not valid in Writer. Use the formula bar's function drop-down and click in the table cells to insert references in the proper syntax. If you do that, you'll see that the correct formula in cell C1 is: =sum If you copy that cell into C2 and C3, you'll see that the references are adjusted automatically.
[users] Re: Calc: Find lower of 2 numbers.
Jerry Feldman wrote: ... something like =if(150 <= $a$1;150;$a$1) ... =MIN(150;$A$1)
[users] Re: keeping characters together
Jim Allan wrote: Can’t duplicate this, if there is a space before the first slash. ... Maybe this screencast will clarify http://www.martnet.com/~jes/temp/OOo_word_wrap.ogg Apologies in advance if that's not viewable; just let me know.
[users] Re: keeping characters together
Rolf Schumacher wrote: good news, Jim ... Jim Allan wrote: ... I cannot duplicate this problem in OpenOffice.org 3.0 Beta. That is when I type space followed by “/REF/” and, and then insert the letter “A” again and again before this, the “ /REF/” jumps to the next line as a unit. If I remove some of the “A”s it jumps back as a unit. ... I have no problem duplicating it with OOo 3 beta. A long string of letters will not trigger it, but try it with some normal text (e.g. dt,F3). Just put "/REF/" at a line break and insert or delete characters ahead of it, or tweak the right margin with the ruler. It's easy to find a condition where Writer breaks the 'word' between the leading slash and the 'REF'. Also, U+2060 works to keep the leading slash together with the 'REF', but it also seems to have a side effect: the previous word is also 'glued' to the /U+2060REF/. I see the exact same behavior using OOo 2.4 (all on Fedora Linux 9). Seems there really is no good solution just yet.
[users] Re: keeping characters together
Rolf Schumacher wrote: ... How to tell Writer to keep the five letters together on one line? One workaround is to put the word in a frame. With no borders and no extra spacing, it can be made to work. Defining a frame style, and an AutoText for inserting them, can help a lot.
[users] Re: How do I open .txt files in OO Writer?
Jason Cipriani wrote: ... While that works, too, that's about as acceptable as opening the file in Notepad then copy + pasting it. "File -> Open" isn't the kind of thing that should require a workaround at all. ... If you're using OOo Writer as a text editor (open text file, edit text, save text), then yes, it's not really necessary. OTOH, if you're intending to import text into a formatted text document, then using File > Open carries significant risk, and it's better to avoid it. I'd rather not have to think about it, so I've just trained myself to use Insert > File or insert > Sheet anytime I need to import a non-ODF format file. It's a habit that works well for me. The problems with the way OOo manages files have been discussed to death and there is no traction for changing it.
[users] Re: How do I open .txt files in OO Writer?
Jason Cipriani wrote: ... Therefore it appears that OO Writer chokes (quite consistently on my system at least, I've been able to intentionally reproduce it 100% now) on text files with LF line endings under Windows, and for some reason attempts to open them in OO Calc instead (to rant, OO Writer shouldn't be making decisions like this at all -- if I wanted to use Calc I would've double-clicked the Calc icon not the Writer icon). However, like I mentioned, it does work if I choose the "Text Encoded" file type from the load dialog. The correct behavior should be that the ASCII Filter Options dialog is display for the other 3 options (Text Files, All Files, and Text Documents) as well, rather than the Calc import data dialog. It's not just WIndows; I see the same behavior with 2.4 on Linux. This probably is a bug, but it's not the biggest problem here. An easy way to avoid the issues is to not use File > Open at all, but instead use File > New > Text Document, then Insert > File. That imports the text file contents into an unnamed Writer document: much safer and there's no question about what app will open the file.
[users] Re: Why does OOo need /proc?
Joe Smith wrote:
...
$ grep '/proc' log
open("/proc/meminfo", O_RDONLY) = 3
open("/proc/meminfo", O_RDONLY) = 3
open("/proc/meminfo", O_RDONLY) = 3
Oops--sent a few seconds too soon.
Since /proc/meminfo is just ascii text, you could at least try replacing
it with a static text file copied from a machine with similar hardware
specs.
I doubt that OOo needs exact, up-to-the-minute information about memory
usage, but that's only a guess.
[users] Re: Why does OOo need /proc?
Michelle Konzack wrote:
...
Problem: OOo need it!
Question: Why?
"Why?" is hard to say; "what?" is much easier:
$ strace -o log ooffice -help
OpenOffice.org 2.4 680m12(Build:9286)
...
$ grep '/proc' log
open("/proc/meminfo", O_RDONLY) = 3
open("/proc/meminfo", O_RDONLY) = 3
open("/proc/meminfo", O_RDONLY) = 3
[users] Re: Import/Export vs Open/Save ?
Harold Fuchs wrote: ... Please, what is the difference between Open/Save on the one hand and Import/Export on the other? In OOo, the terms have very specific meanings--far more specific than the English words themselves. When OOo has program code that supports both reading and saving in a particular file format, that format is included in the File > Open, File > Save lists. When OOo has program code that supports only writing, but not reading, then OOo puts that format on the File > Export menu. There is no File > Import menu, so I don't know what happens if OOo can only read a format. It comes under Insert > File or Picture, I guess. The idea is, as J.R. already mentioned, that File > Open/Save should 'remember' and preserve the original file format. Likewise, when OOo allows writing in a format that cannot be read back, then the user should have to use a different menu. E.g. you File > Export a drawing as an image, because there's no way to perform the reverse operation (image to drawing). I think this distinction is more confusing than helpful because it is based on an engineering concept that goes beyond the common understanding of the words. Does it make sense to "Save" a document in a format that doesn't preserve all of the current formatting? Do most users understand the distinction between file operations that OOo implements?
[users] Re: Writer: Character Style Questions
Scott Meyers wrote: Joe Smith wrote: The best resource I know of is the one you're using right now: user-to-user Q&A, either here, or one of the web forums: UCF: http://user.services.openoffice.org OOoForum: http://www.oooforum.org I read this list via the Gmane newsgroup interface, which I find vastly preferable to any web-based interface, in large part because it's a whole lot faster and makes much better use of screen space. Can you give me some sense for the relative pros and cons of relying exclusively on this list versus adding the above fora to the mix? I wasn't promoting one over the other, I only wanted to say that all three (and others) are good "information lodes". Use Google to mine them; when you need to ask a question, use whichever you're most comfortable with. I find the web forums more comfortable because you have some richer presentation options (formatted text, screenshots, attached files) that can facilitate discussion, and there are never problems with unsubscribed posters or broken threads. I also like being able to go back and edit my posts, either to fix something that's wrong, or to add a clarification or PS. The forum also provides a good interface to old discussions. Gmane does not keep messages forever, and it's really painful to try and pull coherent information out of the OO.org archives. I'm not sure what Nabble's retention policy is. > One of the > drawbacks I've noticed to this list is the very large percentage of > posts that have to do with questions about installation, checking > spelling, and MS compatibility. The web options seem to offer more > focused fora rather than throwing everything together. The forums are a little more organized, so you can follow a more specific area, e.g. Writer, but in that case you still have a lot of the volume dealing with "checking spelling, and MS compatibility" ... of Writer. Most of the volume is the same FAQs. > Is there perhaps a newsgroup interface to the web discussions? It's possible to implement, but there doesn't seem to be enough interest to make it happen. There are RSS feeds available, although I dropped them because the volume was too high. It was easier to just read the forum. It would be more useful to monitor one of the lower-volume forums. I see Michele mentioned the User Guides--another excellent resource which I meant to add. Great stuff for beginning to intermediate use.
[users] Re: Writer: Character Style Questions
Scott Meyers wrote: ... I really do try to consult the documentation before posting, but I rarely find what I am looking for. Even now that I better understand what the "Standard" button on the paragraph and character style dialogs does, I can't find a description of it in the online help, the OO Writer Guide, or Solveig Haugland's OOo Guidebook. Coming by information on how style linking works seems to be especially difficult, yet this is at the absolute foundation of effective style use. Is there some source of information about Writer that covers this kind of stuff that I'm simply unaware of? Ha. If only. The best resource I know of is the one you're using right now: user-to-user Q&A, either here, or one of the web forums: UCF: http://user.services.openoffice.org OOoForum: http://www.oooforum.org Both of those, all three really, since the mailing lists are archived, are indexed and searchable by Google. In the end, it really does just take a lot of work to become proficient with OOo. I would say that it takes more work than it should; I think most people would agree with that. The online help is actually very good. There is an awful lot of information in there (it is considered a bug if there's some feature or button in the software that isn't documented in the online help), but as is so often the case, the presentation of the information is not so great. However, it really pays to learn how to pry the information out--just don't expect it to fall in your lap. In this case, I learned about the "Standard" button from folks on oooforum, but it is in the online help--there's just no easy way to find it. If you go to the "Find" tab in the help, and search for "standard", one of the sixty-odd hits is "Character Styles". Double-clicking that takes you to a page that documents all the tabs on the modify character style dialog, including the "Standard" button. I cannot find any other way to get to that page. Perhaps there's an entry in the "Contents" somewhere. Often the best way to find something in the help is to use the "Help" button that's almost always available to get help on the current context. But not in all cases, including this one. Unless you are a) persistent and b) have enough knowledge to pick "Character Styles" as likely to be relevant, the chance of finding that page in the help looks pretty slim.
