subject:"\[videoblogging\] Re\: The Last Hours \- Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz"




On 4/25/06, Michael Sullivan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 Bottom line for me is... I dont dig it. I feel like shitty about the
 whole thing. That I actually gave a shit about someone I didnt even
 know wasted emotions and wasted time. Art making aside fuck that.

Interesting, given that we pay for entertainment precisely to have our
emotions manipulated - whether we like to be scared or cry
sentimentally, we go to movies for that. I guess the difference is
that, with Hollywood, we know up front that it's fake.

Perhaps we're mad at Kevin because he got a free ride on the willing
suspension of disbelief ?

--
best regards,
Deirdré Straughan

www.beginningwithi.com (personal)
www.tvblob.com (work)


  




  
  
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Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz




On 4/25/06, Jen Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 I find the whole situation constantly problematic -- and is one of the
 reasons I am not going to teach in this setting again. Too many
 students, not enough time to talk about these issues, deep deep
 energies circulating that are sexist, racist, homophobic... many of you
 would not believe how horrible and offensive half the work made around
 here is. And it's defended in the name of not censoring the students.
 I don't believe in censorship, but I do believe in discussion.

Interesting in light of an article I was just reading about how many
schools are trying to stop their kids using MySpace (even from home)
and/or punishing kids who post nasty things about each other,
teachers, etc., no matter where they posted it from.

But apparently Temple feels that anything goes in the name of student freedom.

Perhaps there is, or will be, a correlation between students who spend
their high school years being ridiculously oppressed and censored and
those who go wild in college expressing themselves in all sorts of
inappropriate ways. Recent reports (which I have not read) about
on-campus nudie magazines would also seem to tie into this.

It comes back to a point that I keep making: teach kids to use the
Internet (and every other form of communication) EARLY and
RESPONSIBLY, rather than trying to rope them off from this big scary
place. Then they have a good chance to grow up to be young adults who
use the Internet responsibly and with due respect for the feelings of
others, as well as their own reputations.


--
best regards,
Deirdré Straughan

www.beginningwithi.com (personal)
www.tvblob.com (work)


  




  
  
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Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz




On 4/25/06, Halcyon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 **My experience with fake death online**

 Many years ago, I encouraged a young girl (that worked for me
 remotely at collegeclub.com) with cancer to start a blog.
 After she got quite a following, she eventually died.
 It turned out she never existed. Kaycee Nicole was a made up
 persona.
 I had to deal with ALOT of backlash and internal struggles, as well.

Not knowing this particular case, I don't know if this applies, but it
seems to me that someone trying to manipulate sympathies in this way
and get attention actually does have some deep problems that need
addressing - just not necessarily cancer!

--
best regards,
Deirdré Straughan

www.beginningwithi.com (personal)
www.tvblob.com (work)





  
  
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Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz

2006-04-25 Thread Andreas Haugstrup




On Tue, 25 Apr 2006 12:29:08 +0200, Deirdre Straughan 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On 4/25/06, Halcyon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 **My experience with fake death online**

 Many years ago, I encouraged a young girl (that worked for me
 remotely at collegeclub.com) with cancer to start a blog.
 After she got quite a following, she eventually died.
 It turned out she never existed. Kaycee Nicole was a made up
 persona.
 I had to deal with ALOT of backlash and internal struggles, as well.

 Not knowing this particular case, I don't know if this applies, but it
 seems to me that someone trying to manipulate sympathies in this way
 and get attention actually does have some deep problems that need
 addressing - just not necessarily cancer!

Just an FYI. The Kaycee Nicole case is almost a mandatory topic when 
reading about blogs (it's certainly referenced a lot!). For once Snopes 
has better coverage than Wikipedia: 
http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/hoaxes/kaycee.htm

-- 
Andreas Haugstrup Pedersen
URL: http://www.solitude.dk/ 
Commentary on media, communication, culture and technology.


  




  
  
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Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz

2006-04-25 Thread Michael Sullivan

Perhaps we're mad at Kevin because he got a free ride on the willingsuspension of disbelief ?
I'm not mad at Kevin. I'm not the blog police. I'm not really mad at myself either...for believing it.I don't like being tricked in this manner, but it is the reality.sull
On 4/25/06, Deirdre Straughan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 4/25/06, Michael Sullivan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bottom line for me is... I dont dig it.I feel like shitty about the whole thing.That I actually gave a shit about someone I didnt even
know wasted emotions and wasted time.Art making aside fuck that.Interesting, given that we pay for entertainment precisely to have ouremotions manipulated - whether we like to be scared or cry
sentimentally, we go to movies for that. I guess the difference isthat, with Hollywood, we know up front that it's fake.Perhaps we're mad at Kevin because he got a free ride on the willingsuspension of disbelief ?
--best regards,Deirdré Straughanwww.beginningwithi.com (personal)www.tvblob.com (work)Yahoo! Groups Links
* To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/-- Sullhttp://vlogdir.com http://SpreadTheMedia.org

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[videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz

2006-04-25 Thread Andy Carvin





 Interesting, given that we pay for entertainment precisely to have our
 emotions manipulated - whether we like to be scared or cry
 sentimentally, we go to movies for that. I guess the difference is
 that, with Hollywood, we know up front that it's fake.
 
 Perhaps we're mad at Kevin because he got a free ride on the willing
 suspension of disbelief ?

That would be the Rollercoaster Effect. We ride rollercoasters because
we want to be scared, while knowing in the back of our minds that we
won't crash and die. This kind of fear with no physical consequences
can be fun. Emotional shocks to the system are only enjoyable when
they have the subconscious acknowledgment that what we're experiencing
isn't real. Watching a person get killed in a movie or a video game
can be enjoyable because we know in our heart it's only a movie. But
when we don't have that assurance, the experience is confusing,
stressful, helpless, horrifying. And finding out we've been played
makes it worse.

andy carvin
www.andycarvin.com



 
 --
 best regards,
 Deirdré Straughan
 
 www.beginningwithi.com (personal)
 www.tvblob.com (work)







  




  
  
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[videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz

2006-04-25 Thread Andy Carvin




Hear hear! I'm actually getting ready to launch a new education blog
for PBS and will be focusing on MySpace and censorship in my first
post. I may have to tackle Kevin's video as well, because it all comes
down to media literacy -andy


 It comes back to a point that I keep making: teach kids to use the
 Internet (and every other form of communication) EARLY and
 RESPONSIBLY, rather than trying to rope them off from this big scary
 place. Then they have a good chance to grow up to be young adults who
 use the Internet responsibly and with due respect for the feelings of
 others, as well as their own reputations.
 
 
 --
 best regards,
 Deirdré Straughan
 
 www.beginningwithi.com (personal)
 www.tvblob.com (work)











  
  
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[videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz

2006-04-25 Thread missbhavens1969




--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Stephanie Bryant [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On 4/24/06, missbhavens1969 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I said real, not truthful, factual, or non-fiction, because I think
 something like Chasing Windmills, while explicitly fictional, hits at
 truths and is real in its way. Perhaps because it is honest about
 being fiction.

As I recall, there was some confusion about the ficticiousness (is that a word) of CW early 
on because they mentioned that we are not actors. 


My point was not that Kevin would have hesitated
 to do this because of a sense of community or sense of belonging
 (though given what Jen has said about how her students don't perceive
 their audience, perhaps he would have). My point is that he didn't
 have some lesson to learn by posting it, unless he has never ever been
 in an online community before-- these stupid hoaxes crop up
 frequently, in one place or another. 

But this guy didn't approach this as a hoax to fool ANY community. I didn't see any 
PayPal button for donations in his memory. It was an assigment. I don't think there is any 
reason hor him to feel defensive or to feel that he should join this list and explain himself 
in any way.


 Here's what Kevin has going for him in terms of this community:
 1) He doesn't seem to have set out to deceive anyone except the
 hapless visitors to his vlog. He didn't promo the video here or hype
 his death movie.
 2) Jen posted QUICKLY to dispel the idea of his death, so the
 speculation did not get out of hand.
 3) We've all been young and foolish. Or old and foolish. In any case,
 should he decide to join this community, I doubt he's going to get
 cold-shouldered just because of this particular stunt (see item #1 for
 the main reason why).
 4) His production values of his work are decent, and we can all
 appreciate well-edited videos.
 5) A sizeable handful of people respect him more for this stupid prank
 because they think of it as art, than they would have if he'd just
 posted a video showing his real life.

 --Stephanie

Again. Stunt. Prank. These lables are yours. His was probably more like I want a decent 
grade.

Bekah
--
http://missbhavens.blogspot.com







  




  
  
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Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz

2006-04-25 Thread Harold Johnson




On 4/25/06, Deirdre Straughan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

On 4/25/06, Michael Sullivan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Bottom line for me is... I dont dig it. I feel like shitty about the whole thing. That I actually gave a shit about someone I didnt even know wasted emotions and wasted time. Art making aside fuck that.

Interesting, given that we pay for entertainment precisely to have ouremotions manipulated - whether we like to be scared or crysentimentally, we go to movies for that. I guess the difference is
that, with Hollywood, we know up front that it's fake.

Do we, though (know up front)? Recall 'The Blair Witch Project', which was marketed as being an actual account...Not until it hit the mainstream did the majority of people know it was real. Even today, there are a few foolish people who believe the event actually occurred.


Harold


  




  
  
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Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz




On 4/25/06, Andy Carvin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 That would be the Rollercoaster Effect. We ride rollercoasters because
 we want to be scared, while knowing in the back of our minds that we
 won't crash and die. This kind of fear with no physical consequences
 can be fun. Emotional shocks to the system are only enjoyable when
 they have the subconscious acknowledgment that what we're experiencing
 isn't real. Watching a person get killed in a movie or a video game
 can be enjoyable because we know in our heart it's only a movie. But
 when we don't have that assurance, the experience is confusing,
 stressful, helpless, horrifying. And finding out we've been played
 makes it worse.

And yet millions of people have watched videos of real people being
really beheaded. (Not me - it's an impulse I totally don't understand,
I don't like to see violence even when I know it's fake.) And back in
classical Rome, real horrible violent death was entertainment for the
masses.

--
best regards,
Deirdré Straughan

www.beginningwithi.com (personal)
www.tvblob.com (work)





  
  
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Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz




On 4/25/06, Harold Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


  Interesting, given that we pay for entertainment precisely to have our
  emotions manipulated - whether we like to be scared or cry
  sentimentally, we go to movies for that. I guess the difference is
  that, with Hollywood, we know up front that it's fake.



 Do we, though (know up front)? Recall 'The Blair Witch Project', which was
 marketed as being an actual account...Not until it hit the mainstream did
 the majority of people know it was real. Even today, there are a few
 foolish people who believe the event actually occurred.

And do those who originally thought so feel cheated, manipulated, etc.?

--
best regards,
Deirdré Straughan

www.beginningwithi.com (personal)
www.tvblob.com (work)


  




  
  
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Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz

2006-04-25 Thread Harold Johnson




Here's the way I see it: If you're going to do a prank, do it well. Did anyone see the film The Game? Now that was a good prank...

I'm going to address a few things here. I'm not outraged by Kevin's prank, though perhaps it's because I suspected it was phony from the get-go. There were too many indications that the video was a stunt. That said, the video itself was nicely executed: Convincing enough to make you wonder, at least. A decent prank, to say the least.


Thequasi-motto/warning I've posted on my site for a long time has been some variation of: Don't believe everything youhear... (Sometimes it's see, other times it's both see and hear -- other times I get silly and post But believe everything you read! or something to that effect.) The reason I post this motto/warning is because I've never completely decided whether I wish my blog/site/project to be fully personal truth, or mixed/distorted by fiction. Everything is distorted by perspective -- every portrayal of truth out there -- so I guess you could argue that by project is more of the latter, distorted by fiction. Yet I aim to tell the truth in my own way, though not by stretching the truth to the point of hoax.


That said, I've been tempted to hoax, though I haven't given in to the temptation yet. I don't plan to, either: It's much to easy. It's a cheap way to gather an audience, though it's fun to conceptualize and execute. I have friends who always prank, and it'sgreat fun just coming up with ideas. For years, a friend of mine has wanted to walk into a bank wearing a ski mask. I chuckle thinking about it. (Then, after chuckling a bit, I realize that it's not very original, really, is it?)


Jen, let Kevin know this: He's got some interesting concepts, and he should continue to work them out. Let him know that some people expect certain boundaries, though it's his choice whether to reject them or not. There may be consequencesfor disrespecting those boundaries -- such as cheapening the value of his art, or losing an audience/group of peers, or far worse-- but he may find his own value in fulfilling these stunts, values which outweigh the consequences. It's his call, ultimately, depending on his goals.


Yet he's got some interesting concepts: I felt his video The Will was a great idea, but poorly performed and produced. Still, I applaud the effort. Encourage Kevin to continue with concepts like that, if he is so inclined...


Sincerely,

Harold
Something That Happened:
a story unfolding through audio
http://SomethingThatHappened.com




On 4/25/06, missbhavens1969 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Stephanie Bryant [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On 4/24/06, missbhavens1969 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I said real, not truthful, factual, or non-fiction, because I think something like Chasing Windmills, while explicitly fictional, hits at
 truths and is real in its way. Perhaps because it is honest about being fiction.
As I recall, there was some confusion about the ficticiousness (is that a word) of CW early on because they mentioned that we are not actors. 
My point was not that Kevin would have hesitated to do this because of a sense of community or sense of belonging (though given what Jen has said about how her students don't perceive
 their audience, perhaps he would have). My point is that he didn't have some lesson to learn by posting it, unless he has never ever been in an online community before-- these stupid hoaxes crop up
 frequently, in one place or another. 
But this guy didn't approach this as a hoax to fool ANY community. I didn't see any PayPal button for donations in his memory. It was an assigment. I don't think there is any 
reason hor him to feel defensive or to feel that he should join this list and explain himself in any way.
 Here's what Kevin has going for him in terms of this community: 1) He doesn't seem to have set out to deceive anyone except the hapless visitors to his vlog. He didn't promo the video here or hype
 his death movie. 2) Jen posted QUICKLY to dispel the idea of his death, so the speculation did not get out of hand. 3) We've all been young and foolish. Or old and foolish. In any case,
 should he decide to join this community, I doubt he's going to get cold-shouldered just because of this particular stunt (see item #1 for the main reason why). 4) His production values of his work are decent, and we can all
 appreciate well-edited videos. 5) A sizeable handful of people respect him more for this stupid prank because they think of it as art, than they would have if he'd just posted a video showing his real life.
 --Stephanie
Again. Stunt. Prank. These lables are yours. His was probably more like I want a decent grade.Bekah--
http://missbhavens.blogspot.com



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[videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz

2006-04-25 Thread Andy Carvin




True; that'll have to be called the car crash rubbernecking effect.

ac


--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Deirdre Straughan
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On 4/25/06, Andy Carvin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  That would be the Rollercoaster Effect. We ride rollercoasters because
  we want to be scared, while knowing in the back of our minds that we
  won't crash and die. This kind of fear with no physical consequences
  can be fun. Emotional shocks to the system are only enjoyable when
  they have the subconscious acknowledgment that what we're experiencing
  isn't real. Watching a person get killed in a movie or a video game
  can be enjoyable because we know in our heart it's only a movie. But
  when we don't have that assurance, the experience is confusing,
  stressful, helpless, horrifying. And finding out we've been played
  makes it worse.
 
 And yet millions of people have watched videos of real people being
 really beheaded. (Not me - it's an impulse I totally don't understand,
 I don't like to see violence even when I know it's fake.) And back in
 classical Rome, real horrible violent death was entertainment for the
 masses.
 
 --
 best regards,
 Deirdré Straughan
 
 www.beginningwithi.com (personal)
 www.tvblob.com (work)








  




  
  
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[videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz




Jesus I'm just stunned. Was it alcohol poisoning, an overdose or
something?

andy


--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Michael Sullivan
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 just noticed this addition to vlogdir.
 thought i would share it here as the intention seems to be to spread
 this
 
 http://questionsinblue.blogspot.com/
 
 
 
 --
 Sull
 http://vlogdir.com
 http://SpreadTheMedia.org







  




  
  
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[videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz




Noticed that Jen simmons had him as a student, so I asked her if she had any information to provide about this video. Is it real or an experiment? On 4/24/06, 
Michael Sullivan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
just noticed this addition to vlogdir. thought i would share it here as the intention seems to be to spread this
http://questionsinblue.blogspot.com/
-- Sullhttp://vlogdir.com 
http://SpreadTheMedia.org

-- Sullhttp://vlogdir.com http://SpreadTheMedia.org


  




  
  
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Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz

2006-04-24 Thread duncan




this is the note on the sidebar...  Video is a place where all the horror and atrocities you ever dreamed of can be accomplished.On 4/24/06, 
Michael Sullivan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



Noticed that Jen simmons had him as a student, so I asked her if she had any information to provide about this video. Is it real or an experiment? 
-- http://29fragiledays.blogspot.com





  
  
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Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz




i noticedOn 4/24/06, duncan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



this is the note on the sidebar...  Video is a place where all the horror and atrocities you ever dreamed of can be accomplished.
On 4/24/06, 
Michael Sullivan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




Noticed that Jen simmons had him as a student, so I asked her if she had any information to provide about this video. Is it real or an experiment? 
-- http://29fragiledays.blogspot.com






  
  
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[videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz




Yeah, me too. And his videos are macabre to say the least. Two of the
ones I've seen so far involve mutilating women. One features a
demented plastic surgeon ruining the face of a model, whose
disfigurement soon becomes a fashion craze. In the other, a man
attacks a woman at a bar, beats her with a belt, then gouges out her
eye with a pocket knife.

Meanwhile, on the death video, there's a montage of photos from his
childhood and a note saying his family approved the release of the
video. It certainly looks real. But there's no mention of him anywhere
when you do a search on google news or technorati; wouldn't the
accidental death of a young man merit a mention somewhere?

I'm debating whether to blog about this or not. If it's real, it's a
chilling message, someone who actually lived and died by the vlog. And
if it's a hoax, well, I guess that's newsworthy as well

ac

--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Michael Sullivan
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 i noticed
 
 On 4/24/06, duncan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  this is the note on the sidebar...
 
  Video is a place where all the horror and atrocities you ever
dreamed of
  can be accomplished.
 
 
  On 4/24/06, Michael Sullivan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
   Noticed that Jen simmons had him as a student, so I asked her
if she
   had any information to provide about this video. Is it real
or an
   experiment?
  
  
  
  --
  http://29fragiledays.blogspot.com
 
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Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz

2006-04-24 Thread Josh Wolf




This is interesting, given that there is a video that revolves around a 
funeral only weeks before this video, I am not disinclined to think 
that this is a joke. At the same time, it is possible that the video is 
real, and assuming that it may, perhaps, be a joke is probably 
insensitive to some extent.

Josh


On Apr 24, 2006, at 12:17 PM, Andy Carvin wrote:

 Yeah, me too. And his videos are macabre to say the least. Two of the
 ones I've seen so far involve mutilating women. One features a
 demented plastic surgeon ruining the face of a model, whose
 disfigurement soon becomes a fashion craze. In the other, a man
 attacks a woman at a bar, beats her with a belt, then gouges out her
 eye with a pocket knife.

 Meanwhile, on the death video, there's a montage of photos from his
 childhood and a note saying his family approved the release of the
 video. It certainly looks real. But there's no mention of him anywhere
 when you do a search on google news or technorati; wouldn't the
 accidental death of a young man merit a mention somewhere?

 I'm debating whether to blog about this or not. If it's real, it's a
 chilling message, someone who actually lived and died by the vlog. And
 if it's a hoax, well, I guess that's newsworthy as well

 ac

 --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Michael Sullivan
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 i noticed

 On 4/24/06, duncan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 this is the note on the sidebar...

 Video is a place where all the horror and atrocities you ever
 dreamed of
 can be accomplished.


 On 4/24/06, Michael Sullivan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Noticed that Jen simmons had him as a student, so I asked her
 if she
 had any information to provide about this video. Is it real
 or an
 experiment?



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Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz

2006-04-24 Thread Josh Leo

if it is a hoax, you can see that they did a nice job not using the embed this video thing on this particular video. I do however wonder how the friend got all the login information for blip, blogger etc. I know that i have autologin on my computer so maybe that is a possibility. But I don't know... the distance in time since the last video also makes me wonder. I woudl think that it would take more time for a close friend to actually sift through this stuff and then manage to post it.
deathfew days later funeralmourningvlogging? just seems like there would be more time before the vlogging stageand why wouldn't there be more footage before the actual documented event the current footage is too ambiguous. if the footage is real then there would be more before it, since the video starts half way through a video being made.
I could go on..but ill leave it there for nowOn 4/24/06, Josh Wolf [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:This is interesting, given that there is a video that revolves around a
funeral only weeks before this video, I am not disinclined to thinkthat this is a joke. At the same time, it is possible that the video isreal, and assuming that it may, perhaps, be a joke is probablyinsensitive to some extent.
JoshOn Apr 24, 2006, at 12:17 PM, Andy Carvin wrote: Yeah, me too. And his videos are macabre to say the least. Two of the ones I've seen so far involve mutilating women. One features a
demented plastic surgeon ruining the face of a model, whose disfigurement soon becomes a fashion craze. In the other, a man attacks a woman at a bar, beats her with a belt, then gouges out her
eye with a pocket knife. Meanwhile, on the death video, there's a montage of photos from his childhood and a note saying his family approved the release of the video. It certainly looks real. But there's no mention of him anywhere
when you do a search on google news or technorati; wouldn't the accidental death of a young man merit a mention somewhere? I'm debating whether to blog about this or not. If it's real, it's a
chilling message, someone who actually lived and died by the vlog. And if it's a hoax, well, I guess that's newsworthy as well ac --- In
videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Michael Sullivan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i noticed On 4/24/06, duncan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
this is the note on the sidebar... Video is a place where all the horror and atrocities you ever dreamed of can be accomplished.
On 4/24/06, Michael Sullivan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Noticed that Jen simmons had him as a student, so I asked her if she had any information to provide about this video.Is it real
or an experiment? -- http://29fragiledays.blogspot.com
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Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz

2006-04-24 Thread Stephanie Bryant




On 4/24/06, Josh Leo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I do however wonder how the friend got all the login information for blip,
 blogger etc.

Open blogger and related sites. Request new password to be emailed.
Open friend's computer and launch email client. Get passwords.

 I know that i have autologin on my computer so maybe that is a
 possibility. But I don't know... the distance in time since the last video
 also makes me wonder. I woudl think that it would take more time for a close
 friend to actually sift through this stuff and then manage to post it.

Well, I suppose that depends on how you grieve and whether or not you
have a video production class project due the week after the funeral.

 and why wouldn't there be more footage before the actual documented event
 the current footage is too ambiguous. if the footage is real then there
 would be more before it, since the video starts half way through a video
 being made.

It looks like this was from a party, Josh. It would be heartily
tasteless to show a lot of drinking and partying and foolishness, and
possibly a lot of really morbid humor, and then show a dead guy. Not
that it's particularly tasteful as it is, but... yeah. Also, what if
Kevin made comments that would lead you to believe he committed
suicide, just prior to this? Perhaps the family did not want that
getting out.

 I could go on..but ill leave it there for now

It's good to be skeptical. I take all major dramatic events on the
Internet with a grain of salt.

--Stephanie

--
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Blogs, vlogs, and audioblogs at:
http://www.mortaine.com/blogs


  




  
  
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[videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz




--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Josh Wolf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 This is interesting, given that there is a video that revolves
around a 
 funeral only weeks before this video, I am not disinclined to think 
 that this is a joke. At the same time, it is possible that the video
is 
 real, and assuming that it may, perhaps, be a joke is probably 
 insensitive to some extent.
 
 Josh

I agree that simply assuming it's a hoax is perhaps a bit insensitive
or callous, but wondering whether it's a hoax is understandable. There
have been countless strange stunts on the Internet, and given Kevin's
particular body of work, it almost has to cross your mind. Whether
it's a hoax or not, it's probably just a matter of time before it
catalyzes a media debate about the limits of Web 2.0 in relation to
appropriateness, responsibility, news, art, etc...

andy








  
  
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Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz

still waiting for Jen Simmons to chime in, as she apparently taught him how to vlog.On 4/24/06, Andy Carvin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com
, Josh Wolf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is interesting, given that there is a video that revolvesaround a funeral only weeks before this video, I am not disinclined to think that this is a joke. At the same time, it is possible that the video
is real, and assuming that it may, perhaps, be a joke is probably insensitive to some extent. JoshI agree that simply assuming it's a hoax is perhaps a bit insensitiveor callous, but wondering whether it's a hoax is understandable. There
have been countless strange stunts on the Internet, and given Kevin'sparticular body of work, it almost has to cross your mind. Whetherit's a hoax or not, it's probably just a matter of time before itcatalyzes a media debate about the limits of Web
2.0 in relation toappropriateness, responsibility, news, art, etc...andyYahoo! Groups Links* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/-- Sull
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Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz

I'm wondering whether to chime in now, or wait and watch this discussion go for a while more. I find it fascinating. 

Kevin is fine and well. Probably tired and overwhelmed since it's the end of the semester, but he's otherwise perfectly fine. I just saw him this afternoon in class. 

I don't know if he meant the video as a hoax -- or a mean trick. I'd expect it was more of an experiment to see what would happen. It's definitely in the vlog dangerously theme that Stephanie started for videoblogging week. Perhaps this is over the edge for many of you?? Did Kevin stretch things too far? And cross some line into something unacceptable??

He's got two more posts due for class (one today that's late and one next Monday) so I'm not sure what he has planned... perhaps it would have made more sense for this to be his last post (if in fact he's planning to abandon the vlog after the semester is over).

Mostly I'm interested in hearing more discussion about whether or not it was okay for him to post such a video. What buttons did he push? If you are offended or upset or disturbed or frightened or disgusted... then why? What is it exactly that caused your reaction? If you aren't any of those things, but have other strong feelings, what is your reaction? What do you think that's about??

And, well, thanks for all the sympathies and concern. Kevin's not on this email list, but I've forwarded him (and several other people) the link to the web-based archive, so hopefully he will chime in. You can also post comments on his blog!

jen

jenSimmons
http://www.jensimmons.com
On Apr 24, 2006, at 4:22 PM, Michael Sullivan wrote:

still waiting for Jen Simmons to chime in, as she apparently taught him how to vlog.

On 4/24/06, Andy Carvin [EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com , Josh Wolf [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> This is interesting, given that there is a video that revolves
around a
> funeral only weeks before this video, I am not disinclined to think
> that this is a joke. At the same time, it is possible that the video 
is
> real, and assuming that it may, perhaps, be a joke is probably
> insensitive to some extent.
>
> Josh

I agree that simply assuming it's a hoax is perhaps a bit insensitive
or callous, but wondering whether it's a hoax is understandable. There 
have been countless strange stunts on the Internet, and given Kevin's
particular body of work, it almost has to cross your mind. Whether
it's a hoax or not, it's probably just a matter of time before it
catalyzes a media debate about the limits of Web 2.0 in relation to
appropriateness, responsibility, news, art, etc...

andy

Yahoo! Groups Links

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[videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz

2006-04-24 Thread Chuck Olsen





You find it fascinating - why? I find it tiresome and irresponsible.
God, I must be getting old. I used to appreciate a good arty blog prank.

The problem is this: Rather than using vlogs to enrich the human
experience, and expand our exposure to the range of human experiences,
pranks like this numb us to it. It numbs us to real death and real
pain, and cheapens it.

This sort of prank is worse for the vlogosphere than any advertisement.

--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Jen Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I'm wondering whether to chime in now, or wait and watch this 
 discussion go for a while more. I find it fascinating.





  




  
  
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[videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz

2006-04-24 Thread Mike Moon




Wow... I went through a full spectrum of emotions.
I was emotionally drained by the end of the video. I watched the
complete video with a dropped jaw and lump in my throat.
It wasn't until I started reading hear that I felt angered at being
decieved and to have allowed myself the opportunity to be duped.
Joke, class project or whatever it was a powerful and successful.
Nicely done Kevin.

Monique... is there still time for Kevin to enter the resurrection
contest?

Mike
http://vlog.mikemoon.net

--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Jen Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I'm wondering whether to chime in now, or wait and watch this 
 discussion go for a while more. I find it fascinating.
 
 Kevin is fine and well. Probably tired and overwhelmed since it's the 
 end of the semester, but he's otherwise perfectly fine. I just saw him 
 this afternoon in class.
 
 I don't know if he meant the video as a hoax -- or a mean trick. I'd 
 expect it was more of an experiment to see what would happen. It's 
 definitely in the vlog dangerously theme that Stephanie started for 
 videoblogging week. Perhaps this is over the edge for many of you?? Did 
 Kevin stretch things too far? And cross some line into something 
 unacceptable??
 
 He's got two more posts due for class (one today that's late and one 
 next Monday) so I'm not sure what he has planned... perhaps it would 
 have made more sense for this to be his last post (if in fact he's 
 planning to abandon the vlog after the semester is over).
 
 Mostly I'm interested in hearing more discussion about whether or not 
 it was okay for him to post such a video. What buttons did he push? 
 If you are offended or upset or disturbed or frightened or disgusted... 
 then why? What is it exactly that caused your reaction? If you aren't 
 any of those things, but have other strong feelings, what is your 
 reaction? What do you think that's about??
 
 And, well, thanks for all the sympathies and concern. Kevin's not on 
 this email list, but I've forwarded him (and several other people) the 
 link to the web-based archive, so hopefully he will chime in. You can 
 also post comments on his blog!
 
 jen
 
 
 
 jenSimmons
 http://www.jensimmons.com
 On Apr 24, 2006, at 4:22 PM, Michael Sullivan wrote:
 
  still waiting for Jen Simmons to chime in, as she apparently taught 
  him how to vlog.
 
 
  On 4/24/06, Andy Carvin [EMAIL PROTECTED]  wrote:--- In 
  videoblogging@yahoogroups.com , Josh Wolf inthecity@ wrote:
  
   This is interesting, given that there is a video that revolves
  around a
   funeral only weeks before this video, I am not disinclined to think
   that this is a joke. At the same time, it is possible that the
video
  is
   real, and assuming that it may, perhaps, be a joke is probably
   insensitive to some extent.
  
   Josh
 
  I agree that simply assuming it's a hoax is perhaps a bit insensitive
  or callous, but wondering whether it's a hoax is understandable.
There
  have been countless strange stunts on the Internet, and given Kevin's
  particular body of work, it almost has to cross your mind. Whether
  it's a hoax or not, it's probably just a matter of time before it
  catalyzes a media debate about the limits of Web 2.0 in relation to
  appropriateness, responsibility, news, art, etc...
 
  andy
 
 
 
 
 
 
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  Sull
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  http://SpreadTheMedia.org
 
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   âª  Â Visit your group videoblogging on the web.
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Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz




Well for one I have to disagree that this is worse than the insidious 
creeping take-over of the vlogosphere imagination by corporate or 
corporate-copy-cat consumption-oriented / advertisy / 
product-placementy / slick-is-better / 
we-all-want-to-be-like-the-media-on-tv trends. I find that WAY more 
dangerous and problematic.

I am wondering myself why I find this fascinating. I am surprised by my 
own reaction. Perhaps it's because I know Kevin and there's something 
not-typical about his approach to all the violent weird stupid 
perverted content that I am way way tired of after teaching student 
filmmaking in Philadelphia for the last three years. He is handling the 
same subjects, but somehow there is something else going on too -- 
perhaps it's just that he's smart and it shows to me, while most of the 
other students make such work in such a mindless knee-jerk 
stupid/blind way.

I think my reaction is mostly because of a workshop I've been in with 
Kevin taught by Ralph Lemon where we've been exploring danger and risk 
and fear all semester. Doing weird things like setting out to drop 40 
lb weights on our feet to see how we can't actually drop it on our 
feet, but will naturally jerk the body out of the way it's 
impossible, truly impossible to explain this by text, but it's been a 
great investigation of the fear we who are artists confront every time 
we try to make art. Artists live on the edge of real danger all the 
time. Somehow I can't separate this video Kevin made with that process 
of exploration, and in the context of that very specific investigation, 
this is hilarious.

But... yeah... I think in any other context I too would be deeply 
disturbed and offended.
I think it's interesting to me because I'm trying to figure out what 
the difference is in my self. And I am also asking in a deep deep way: 
what is happening here. What social rules are Kevin violating? How will 
the reaction unfold? Will there be a huge outcry? Or will this all blow 
over fairly quickly? Will people react? Or just take this in as one 
more thing...

I see your point that it may be numbing us to real pain. I find the 27 
Law and Order and copycat shows completely irresponsible for exactly 
that reason. And find it completely ridiculous and amazing that NBC has 
gotten both super-christian in the last year and super-violent (come 
on -- an AMY GRANT reality tv show??? and more than one miracle 
reality tv show... and more murder investigations than I've ever 
seen.) I'll be just change channels zipping past NBC and get assaulted 
by a scene of a graphic rape and murder. It seems like an extremely 
perverted rape-by-proxy thing, what, letting the viewers fantasize 
about what it would be like to rape and murder someone?? It' very 
offensive to me. And I see no one talking about it. Why aren't the 
christians outraged about that?? Instead they are freaking out over a 
gay kiss or people talking about evolution... it's crazy crazy crazy.

I also know that I am numb to the violence in my student's work because 
it's so horrible here at Temple. The most unbelievably violent films 
get made by the undergraduates here. And no one talks about it. After 
four years I think my perspective is totally warped. And having people 
on the outside say -- uh, no, this is not acceptable is a welcome 
breath of fresh air.

So people, please everyone say what you think. I want to hear what 
people really think and get a sense of where different people are on 
these issues -- some how that is fascinating to me. What do people 
think is the line that we shouldn't cross when it comes to violence? Is 
Kevin's film too much because it is violent? Or because it is lying? 
Or...

jen



jenSimmons
http://www.jensimmons.com
On Apr 24, 2006, at 6:07 PM, Chuck Olsen wrote:


 You find it fascinating - why? I find it tiresome and irresponsible.
 God, I must be getting old. I used to appreciate a good arty blog 
 prank.

 The problem is this: Rather than using vlogs to enrich the human
 experience, and expand our exposure to the range of human experiences,
 pranks like this numb us to it. It numbs us to real death and real
 pain, and cheapens it.

 This sort of prank is worse for the vlogosphere than any 
 advertisement.

 --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Jen Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  I'm wondering whether to chime in now, or wait and watch this
  discussion go for a while more. I find it fascinating.



  




  
  
  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



  Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web.
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[videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz




Just for kicks, I posted the video to digg to see how people would
react. Kinda quiet so far - around a dozen diggs. Will be interesting
to see what happens if it picks up.

http://digg.com/technology/The_Death_of_a_Video_Blogger_

Meanwhile, given the fact that you're very uncomfortable with the
constant violence on commercial tv, how do you react to Kevin's videos
that show such violence towards women? (The eye-gouging piece and the
Cronenbergesque surgeon episode come to mind.) Are these expressions
of violence inherently better because they're independent and
noncommercial, or somehow more authentic expressions of art?

andy


--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Jen Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Well for one I have to disagree that this is worse than the insidious 
 creeping take-over of the vlogosphere imagination by corporate or 
 corporate-copy-cat consumption-oriented / advertisy / 
 product-placementy / slick-is-better / 
 we-all-want-to-be-like-the-media-on-tv trends. I find that WAY more 
 dangerous and problematic.
 
 I am wondering myself why I find this fascinating. I am surprised by my 
 own reaction. Perhaps it's because I know Kevin and there's something 
 not-typical about his approach to all the violent weird stupid 
 perverted content that I am way way tired of after teaching student 
 filmmaking in Philadelphia for the last three years. He is handling the 
 same subjects, but somehow there is something else going on too -- 
 perhaps it's just that he's smart and it shows to me, while most of the 
 other students make such work in such a mindless knee-jerk 
 stupid/blind way.
 
 I think my reaction is mostly because of a workshop I've been in with 
 Kevin taught by Ralph Lemon where we've been exploring danger and risk 
 and fear all semester. Doing weird things like setting out to drop 40 
 lb weights on our feet to see how we can't actually drop it on our 
 feet, but will naturally jerk the body out of the way it's 
 impossible, truly impossible to explain this by text, but it's been a 
 great investigation of the fear we who are artists confront every time 
 we try to make art. Artists live on the edge of real danger all the 
 time. Somehow I can't separate this video Kevin made with that process 
 of exploration, and in the context of that very specific investigation, 
 this is hilarious.
 
 But... yeah... I think in any other context I too would be deeply 
 disturbed and offended.
 I think it's interesting to me because I'm trying to figure out what 
 the difference is in my self. And I am also asking in a deep deep way: 
 what is happening here. What social rules are Kevin violating? How will 
 the reaction unfold? Will there be a huge outcry? Or will this all blow 
 over fairly quickly? Will people react? Or just take this in as one 
 more thing...
 
 I see your point that it may be numbing us to real pain. I find the 27 
 Law and Order and copycat shows completely irresponsible for exactly 
 that reason. And find it completely ridiculous and amazing that NBC has 
 gotten both super-christian in the last year and super-violent (come 
 on -- an AMY GRANT reality tv show??? and more than one miracle 
 reality tv show... and more murder investigations than I've ever 
 seen.) I'll be just change channels zipping past NBC and get assaulted 
 by a scene of a graphic rape and murder. It seems like an extremely 
 perverted rape-by-proxy thing, what, letting the viewers fantasize 
 about what it would be like to rape and murder someone?? It' very 
 offensive to me. And I see no one talking about it. Why aren't the 
 christians outraged about that?? Instead they are freaking out over a 
 gay kiss or people talking about evolution... it's crazy crazy crazy.
 
 I also know that I am numb to the violence in my student's work because 
 it's so horrible here at Temple. The most unbelievably violent films 
 get made by the undergraduates here. And no one talks about it. After 
 four years I think my perspective is totally warped. And having people 
 on the outside say -- uh, no, this is not acceptable is a welcome 
 breath of fresh air.
 
 So people, please everyone say what you think. I want to hear what 
 people really think and get a sense of where different people are on 
 these issues -- some how that is fascinating to me. What do people 
 think is the line that we shouldn't cross when it comes to violence? Is 
 Kevin's film too much because it is violent? Or because it is lying? 
 Or...
 
 jen
 
 
 
 jenSimmons
 http://www.jensimmons.com
 On Apr 24, 2006, at 6:07 PM, Chuck Olsen wrote:
 
 
  You find it fascinating - why? I find it tiresome and irresponsible.
  God, I must be getting old. I used to appreciate a good arty blog 
  prank.
 
  The problem is this: Rather than using vlogs to enrich the human
  experience, and expand our exposure to the range of human
experiences,
  pranks like this numb us to it. It numbs us to real death and real
  pain, and cheapens it.

Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz

first to address this comment about the amount of glorified death on NBC etc :)

Why aren't the christians outraged about that??
Since I sold my house a few weeks ago, I have been living with my in-laws until new house is ready for us. and they are very catholic and they love and watch every one of those shows!!

Regarding this Fake Death video, The first 2 times I watched it I was really disturbed and sad.
I did some searching and watched the rest of the vlog, and felt it was not real. But did not want to just assume that because i would feel horrible if I were wrong. I even hesitated to ask the question here. So I emailed Jen because one of the google results turned up her class site where he was listed as a student. She told me he was alive etc so then I was like ok fine whatever. Thats good. One less dead kid and grieving family. Fine.

But I truly felt horrible at first and it brought up some personal memories and future fears now that I'm a dad et all. And it did screw up my day. I was less productive after seeing it (not like I was being very productive anyway).

Bottom line for me is... I dont dig it. I feel like shitty about the whole thing. That I actually gave a shit about someone I didnt even know wasted emotions and wasted time. Art making aside fuck that.

sull

On 4/24/06, Jen Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Well for one I have to disagree that this is worse than the insidiouscreeping take-over of the vlogosphere imagination by corporate or
corporate-copy-cat consumption-oriented / advertisy /product-placementy / slick-is-better /we-all-want-to-be-like-the-media-on-tv trends. I find that WAY moredangerous and problematic.I am wondering myself why I find this fascinating. I am surprised by my
own reaction. Perhaps it's because I know Kevin and there's somethingnot-typical about his approach to all the violent weird stupidperverted content that I am way way tired of after teaching studentfilmmaking in Philadelphia for the last three years. He is handling the
same subjects, but somehow there is something else going on too --perhaps it's just that he's smart and it shows to me, while most of theother students make such work in such a mindless knee-jerkstupid/blind way.
I think my reaction is mostly because of a workshop I've been in withKevin taught by Ralph Lemon where we've been exploring danger and riskand fear all semester. Doing weird things like setting out to drop 40
lb weights on our feet to see how we can't actually drop it on ourfeet, but will naturally jerk the body out of the way it'simpossible, truly impossible to explain this by text, but it's been agreat investigation of the fear we who are artists confront every time
we try to make art. Artists live on the edge of real danger all thetime. Somehow I can't separate this video Kevin made with that processof exploration, and in the context of that very specific investigation,
this is hilarious.But... yeah... I think in any other context I too would be deeplydisturbed and offended.I think it's interesting to me because I'm trying to figure out whatthe difference is in my self. And I am also asking in a deep deep way:
what is happening here. What social rules are Kevin violating? How willthe reaction unfold? Will there be a huge outcry? Or will this all blowover fairly quickly? Will people react? Or just take this in as one
more thing...I see your point that it may be numbing us to real pain. I find the 27Law and Order and copycat shows completely irresponsible for exactlythat reason. And find it completely ridiculous and amazing that NBC has
gotten both super-christian in the last yearand super-violent (comeon -- an AMY GRANT reality tv show??? and more than one miraclereality tv show... and more murder investigations than I've ever
seen.) I'll be just change channels zipping past NBC and get assaultedby a scene of a graphic rape and murder. It seems like an extremelyperverted rape-by-proxy thing, what, letting the viewers fantasizeabout what it would be like to rape and murder someone?? It' very
offensive to me. And I see no one talking about it. Why aren't thechristians outraged about that?? Instead they are freaking out over agay kiss or people talking about evolution... it's crazy crazy crazy.
I also know that I am numb to the violence in my student's work becauseit's so horrible here at Temple. The most unbelievably violent filmsget made by the undergraduates here. And no one talks about it. Afterfour years I think my perspective is totally warped. And having people
on the outside say -- uh, no, this is not acceptable is a welcomebreath of fresh air.So people, please everyone say what you think. I want to hear whatpeople really think and get a sense of where different people are on
these issues -- some how that is fascinating to me. What do peoplethink is the line that we shouldn't cross when it comes to violence? IsKevin's film too much because it is violent? Or because it is lying?

[videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz

2006-04-24 Thread xicastmedia




I have to agree with Jen on this. While I was personally disturbed by
the movie (I have seen far too many video and still photo memorials of
people I've known and loved) the groups' reaction is quite telling
about the impact that video over the Internet is capable of.

Its also a reminder to all of us to question the source of any online
content. Video simply needs to be added as yet another medium that
mandates personal scrutiny. Seeing still shouldn't mean believing.

How would our opinions of this piece changed had it been littered with
subtle product placement?

As we begin to share more and more of ourselves via this medium, we'll
be exposed to a broader range of the human condition. Along with the
wide-spread adoption of social networks as this newsgroup proved to
be, we'll likely see more disturbing footage - both real and otherwise
- that we lead to the obvious reactionaries that start shouting that
something ought to be done! 

Hopefully, too, we'll find that the human condition is improved by the
increased exposure of real social, medical and political situations. 
Perhaps those of us who are capable of broadcasting these microcosms
of society will do so to the benefit of all.

Either way, I'll be the first to admit that I was sucked into this and
spent a considerable amount of time looking at Jen's students' blogs
to find any corroborating entries. I never found any. I was still
inclined to believe that the footage was authentic.

Jen, would you mind commenting on what the assignment was and how Mr.
Krutz' video tied into that?

Thanks for shedding some light on this.

Aidan Owens
xicast.com

--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Jen Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I'm wondering whether to chime in now, or wait and watch this 
 discussion go for a while more. I find it fascinating.
 
 Kevin is fine and well. Probably tired and overwhelmed since it's the 
 end of the semester, but he's otherwise perfectly fine. I just saw him 
 this afternoon in class.
 
 I don't know if he meant the video as a hoax -- or a mean trick. I'd 
 expect it was more of an experiment to see what would happen. It's 
 definitely in the vlog dangerously theme that Stephanie started for 
 videoblogging week. Perhaps this is over the edge for many of you?? Did 
 Kevin stretch things too far? And cross some line into something 
 unacceptable??
 
 He's got two more posts due for class (one today that's late and one 
 next Monday) so I'm not sure what he has planned... perhaps it would 
 have made more sense for this to be his last post (if in fact he's 
 planning to abandon the vlog after the semester is over).
 
 Mostly I'm interested in hearing more discussion about whether or not 
 it was okay for him to post such a video. What buttons did he push? 
 If you are offended or upset or disturbed or frightened or disgusted... 
 then why? What is it exactly that caused your reaction? If you aren't 
 any of those things, but have other strong feelings, what is your 
 reaction? What do you think that's about??
 
 And, well, thanks for all the sympathies and concern. Kevin's not on 
 this email list, but I've forwarded him (and several other people) the 
 link to the web-based archive, so hopefully he will chime in. You can 
 also post comments on his blog!
 
 jen
 
 
 
 jenSimmons
 http://www.jensimmons.com
 On Apr 24, 2006, at 4:22 PM, Michael Sullivan wrote:
 
  still waiting for Jen Simmons to chime in, as she apparently taught 
  him how to vlog.
 
 
  On 4/24/06, Andy Carvin [EMAIL PROTECTED]  wrote:--- In 
  videoblogging@yahoogroups.com , Josh Wolf inthecity@ wrote:
  
   This is interesting, given that there is a video that revolves
  around a
   funeral only weeks before this video, I am not disinclined to think
   that this is a joke. At the same time, it is possible that the
video
  is
   real, and assuming that it may, perhaps, be a joke is probably
   insensitive to some extent.
  
   Josh
 
  I agree that simply assuming it's a hoax is perhaps a bit insensitive
  or callous, but wondering whether it's a hoax is understandable.
There
  have been countless strange stunts on the Internet, and given Kevin's
  particular body of work, it almost has to cross your mind. Whether
  it's a hoax or not, it's probably just a matter of time before it
  catalyzes a media debate about the limits of Web 2.0 in relation to
  appropriateness, responsibility, news, art, etc...
 
  andy
 
 
 
 
 
 
  Yahoo! Groups Links
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  -- 
  Sull
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  http://SpreadTheMedia.org
 
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Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz




On Apr 24, 2006, at 7:05 PM, Andy Carvin wrote:

 Meanwhile, given the fact that you're very uncomfortable with the
 constant violence on commercial tv, how do you react to Kevin's videos
 that show such violence towards women? (The eye-gouging piece and the
 Cronenbergesque surgeon episode come to mind.) Are these expressions
 of violence inherently better because they're independent and
 noncommercial, or somehow more authentic expressions of art?

 andy

no - it doesn't matter to me that they are independent or expressions 
of an underdog -- films like these bug the shit out of me. On good 
days, I try to facilitate a constructive conversation with students 
questioning why they want to and do make work like this. On most days, 
I just retreat overwhelmed by the idea that I'm helping people make 
shit like this (they white balanced the camera...). Those specific 
videos of Kevin's he made for another class in a past semester, and the 
critiques he added to them is what he did for the class I'm teaching.

I find the whole situation constantly problematic -- and is one of the 
reasons I am not going to teach in this setting again. Too many 
students, not enough time to talk about these issues, deep deep 
energies circulating that are sexist, racist, homophobic... many of you 
would not believe how horrible and offensive half the work made around 
here is. And it's defended in the name of not censoring the students. 
I don't believe in censorship, but I do believe in discussion.

Thinking about all this driving home, I remembered that one of my 
strategies going into this school year was to make the _audience_ real 
for the students. To get them to post their films online for a audience 
of real people.

Like chuck said:

 Needless to say, I felt pretty shitty after I hung up. I became
 wrapped up in my own prank, my own lie. This guy had an
 emotional response. I was manipulating his empathy. And
 that's just not fun. It felt wrong because empathy, I think, is
 part of our moral core and part our brain chemistry.

Once it becomes real that your actions are affecting other people, we 
all tend to make better choices...

I think one reason they make such irresponsible work is that they think 
it doesn't matter. They think no one is listening and that everything 
they do is meaningless. They are looking to have an impact / arouse 
some feelings, any feelings, at any cost -- just to make some kind of 
difference. I mean, as I type this my neighbors in the apartment below 
me are coughing like mad, collectively choking on the pot they are 
smoking. There's a desperation to feel, to break out of the fog they 
are in, and somehow blood and guts and gore and the subsequent 
adrenaline reaction is appealing. But I want them to see the 
consequences of their choices -- and so one of my strategies was to not 
just let them make work for each other, but to get it out to a real 
live audience where people outside of their world can react. Praise 
work that is meaningful and touching. Damn or question work that is 
irresponsible. So in many ways that's exactly what is happening now. So 
tell Kevin what you think, question his choices, make him think about 
them. And maybe he'll make the same choices again, but at least he'll 
have thought about: what kind of work does he want to make? why? what 
kind of impact or effect does he want to have?? etc... What I have seen 
this semester a higher percentage of students making work that they do 
find meaningful, and a lot of students who are realizing they don't 
know what they have to say as filmmakers.

There is a real loss of meaning and vision. And I don't just see that 
in my students, I see it in the vlogosphere as well -- only there 
people are reaching out to the copy-cat model to fill the void. Copy 
MTV, copy tech tv, copy primetime tv show models, copy mass media 
economic models. It's the same lack of vision for something


jen


jenSimmons
http://www.jensimmons.com






  
  
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Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz




On Apr 24, 2006, at 7:34 PM, xicastmedia wrote:

 Jen, would you mind commenting on what the assignment was and how Mr.
 Krutz' video tied into that?

The assignment was given back in January -- make a videoblog, and post 
weekly for ten weeks (or more). They could make their vlog about 
anything, but I did require them to come up with a theme / a plan / a 
purpose (because otherwise typically students flounder like crazy). 
Kevin had a plan to do these self-review/ commentaries on films he's 
made in the past for other classes. Then as time's gone on I've told 
them to feel free to deviate from the original plan, now that they know 
what a videoblog is, they've watched a lot of other vloggers, etc. So 
Kevin's video, well it's a video that was posted to his vlog... so it 
definitely fit the assignment.

You can checkout the videoblogs of Kevin's classmates at:
http://teaching.jensimmons.com/videoblogging/spring06
I'm especially proud of the work by:
Andrei Litvinov
Bethany McKenney
Irene Goldstein
Dominque Caron
and others...

If you want to read the assignment and syllabus, those are there too. 
Soon, I'll post videos of the presentations and research papers on 
videoblogging that they've done.

jen






  
  
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Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz




On Apr 24, 2006, at 7:30 PM, Michael Sullivan wrote:

 Since I sold my house a few weeks ago, I have been living with my 
 in-laws until new house is ready for us. and they are very 
 catholic and they love and watch every one of those shows!!

Why do you think they love them? What's the appeal?? I get that the 
murder-mystery is a fun genre, because it's like a puzzle to solve at 
home. Murder She Wrote was very popular, and had the same kind of plot 
structure -- but nowhere near the level of gratuitous violence. What's 
the appeal of that same classic story + horrible scenes of torture and 
destruction of the human body -- usually the female body??

I think there's something really deep going on about repression and 
religion and this kind of fantasy of the ultimate act of acting out 
unrepressed.

jen



  




  
  
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Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz

2006-04-24 Thread Stephanie Bryant




Jen, thank you for chiming in NOW and not letting the fascinating
discussion go on.

We've had this conversation on this list before, last year when a
vlogger faked having his kids taken away for something in his vlog.
Now, as then, and as with every other fake emotional manipulation in
the blogosphere, I am not amused by it.

There is an assumed contract between the blogger and the audience
that what's there is in some way or another real. This is especially
true in video, which is easy to manipulate but seems so real.

When a blog is fiction, it's best to identify it as such. Somewhere,
somehow, even if it's subtle.

More importantly is when a blog blurs the line between fiction and
non-fiction. For instance, when Kevin uses his real name but vlogs his
fake death. That's not right, somehow.

You are fascinated by the reactions because you were not manipulated.
Kevin is your student and you know he's okay.

I have stopped counting the number of times someone I know online
(or someone they know and they forward the information) has:
1) Died unexpectedly
2) Contracted a terrible illness
3) Needed financial assistance for an abused pet
4) Been abused
5) Had a pregnancy/baby

All of which, it turned out, never happened.

What seems to happen is this:
1) The person posts some announcement of the terrible thing, either as
themselves or using an assumed identity. Various facts and proof are
offered.
2) The audience or community responds with a show of emotional
support, grief, concern, and/or money or cards.
3) One or two people in the community respond with Um this doesn't add up.
4) The rest of the community attacks the skeptic, often viciously.
[Fortunately this didn't happen here, which is a real testament to the
caliber of the vlogging community.]
5) The truth is revealed, the person never existed, the death was a
hoax, there was no baby, etc. Jen, thank you for making this step
happen VERY quickly-- the longer the suspense goes on, the worse it
gets. Hopefully nobody had the opportunity to lose sleep over this.
6) The rest of the community splits between You should be ashamed for
manipulating us! and you should all be ashamed for attacking the
skeptic! (even though they did nothing to defend the skeptic,
either).
7) [Optional] The perpetrator tries to defend himself/herself with It
was a joke, or It was an experiment. My favorite is it was an
experiment because it's a completely unethical method of human
experimentation, and really obviously a cop-out from the backlash
against manipulating people.
8) Next time, all those people will be more skeptical of OMG, he's
DEAD! posts. Eventually, we will all be too jaded and skeptical to
continue to see each other as real human beings. Then, we'll fake our
own deaths/illnesses/pregnancies, because it doesn't really matter if
we hurt a couple hundred people-- they weren't real anyway.

Now, obviously these don't all relate to this particular case. But one
might ask: has Kevin never been in an online community before? Does he
not know about this kind of BS and how little it's appreciated or
tolerated on the net? And are we seriously still exploring this as
if it were somehow new? This isn't new-- people have been pulling this
crap since the first time two modems resolved their connection.

--Stephanie
[I've decided nobody online actually dies, because every time it
happens, it's a stupid f'ing joke.]

On 4/24/06, Jen Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I'm wondering whether to chime in now, or wait and watch this
 discussion go for a while more. I find it fascinating.

 Kevin is fine and well. Probably tired and overwhelmed since it's the
 end of the semester, but he's otherwise perfectly fine. I just saw him
 this afternoon in class.

--
Stephanie Bryant
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Blogs, vlogs, and audioblogs at:
http://www.mortaine.com/blogs


  




  
  
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Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz

2006-04-24 Thread Anne Walk

anybody remember nathan peters' experiment last year?one of the vloggers in the group staged a vlog of his children being taken away (i'm still not even clear on what happened after that episode!) when it was discovered to be an experiment, people were understandably upset.
this time around, people seem to be less upset...but that could be because the vlogger in question was not a member of this particular vlogging community.i think it's interesting to explore the ideas of truth and personal representation. i don't know if such heavy handedness is necessary to do so.
as for the violence, i agree completely with your impassioned commentary on violence in media and it's use as cathartic proxy. it titillates and then it punishes and we can go on with our lives, our demons sated.
one difference between the media representation of violence and Kevin's is that, with Law and Order, we can treat is as entertainment. We already know it is fiction. with kevin, we think he is one of us.
anyway, coming from an art backgroud myself, i've seen a lot of stuff like this and yes, you become jaded by it. the art world teaches you not to believe in anything (that's been my experience). i'd like to ask you, jen, if you had seen the video online and did not see the student afterwards, as expected...if he had carried out the experiment more fully and left you and the school in the dark about it (perhaps even had relatives phone in with the bad news), would you still think it an interesting experiment or would it become something else?
On 4/24/06, Chuck Olsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Come to think of it - if Kevin's video had a Miller Lite logo at theend, it would be genius. :-)I remember camping out in the backyard in high school with my friends.We brought out the cordless phone (yeah, high tech!) and made some
prank phone calls.When it was my turn, I pretended I was in jail and desparate totalk to my dad. I woke up some poor guy who obviously wasn't mydad. Oh shit! This is my only phone call I don't know what to do!
Rather than hang up, this guy was genuinely anguished over mysituation and sincerely tried to help me.Needless to say, I felt pretty shitty after I hung up. I becamewrapped up in my own prank, my own lie. This guy had an
emotional response. I was manipulating his empathy. Andthat's just not fun. It felt wrong because empathy, I think, ispart of our moral core and part our brain chemistry.It's only a matter of time before we see a real drunken death
on YouTube. Everyone who has watched Kevin's video willprobably be immediately skeptical, if not dismissive. Whata strange feeling it will be to have that reaction, only to findout the death is real. Yes - it is fascinating I suppose.
And of course it's not just Kevin, but our world, saturatedwith media violence.One difference between Kevin's prank and, say, Ian's finalvideo where he's kidnapped - or most advertisements - is
whether or not you believe what you're seeing is real.You don't see people die in advertisements. Or if you do, youdon't think it's real. Ian's final video was pretty obviously a joke.So degree and context are big factors in our reactions. You know
Kevin and have all this context for his video, not to mention,you know he's not dead. That's quite a different context than we have,and certainly the content of his video is fairly extreme.So in the end, I say all videobloggers must commit mass mock
suicide and agree to never believe anything we see in video.(whuuuh?!?)--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Jen Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Well for one I have to disagree that this is worse than the insidious creeping take-over of the vlogosphere imagination by corporate or corporate-copy-cat consumption-oriented / advertisy /
product-placementy / slick-is-better / we-all-want-to-be-like-the-media-on-tv trends. I find that WAY more dangerous and problematic. I am wondering myself why I find this fascinating. I am surprised by my
own reaction. Perhaps it's because I know Kevin and there's something not-typical about his approach to all the violent weird stupid perverted content that I am way way tired of after teaching student
filmmaking in Philadelphia for the last three years. He is handling the same subjects, but somehow there is something else going on too -- perhaps it's just that he's smart and it shows to me, while most of the
other students make such work in such a mindless knee-jerk stupid/blind way. I think my reaction is mostly because of a workshop I've been in with Kevin taught by Ralph Lemon where we've been exploring danger and risk
and fear all semester. Doing weird things like setting out to drop 40 lb weights on our feet to see how we can't actually drop it on our feet, but will naturally jerk the body out of the way it's
impossible, truly impossible to explain this by text, but it's been a great investigation of the fear we who are artists confront every time we try to make art. Artists live on the edge of real danger

Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz

It made it's point.

it sure did. and that aside ;-) 'fuck that' is my point ;-)
i hear ya. like steph said it's old. i'm over it though.

sull
On 4/24/06, David Howell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I dont know? I watched it and (of course it's wasy to say this now) Ifelt it was a fake. No...I cant prove why I thought it was a fake.
There was just something. I went on my day not really thinking aboutit all that much. Sad to say, I've probably become cold to any sort oftelevised human death.BUT...The video did get a reaction.
Sull...art making aside fuck that. Let's see here...I'll try todust off my degree here and attempt to put it to some use ;)Art has a purpose. To create an impact be that good or bad. I stated
in an email earlier today to a friend that (parphrasing) indifferenceis the root of evil to art. You certainly arent indifferent to thisvideo. So...in a sense, it was successful. It made you feel.It made it's point.
Davidhttp://www.davidhowellstudios.com--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Michael Sullivan
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bottom line for me is... I dont dig it.I feel like shittyabout the whole thing.That I actually gave a shit about someone I didnt even know wasted emotions and wasted time.Art making aside fuck
that. sullYahoo! Groups Links* To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/
* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/-- Sullhttp://vlogdir.com
http://SpreadTheMedia.org

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[videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz

2006-04-24 Thread David Howell




I do agree with you there. This has been done before time and time
again. On BBS's, newsgroups, IRC, forums...etc. Maybe that's the
reason I thought it was fake? Who knows?

Maybe I am looking for more intellectual art to stir an emotion in me.

We're old Sull...ohsoold *chuckle*

David
http://www.davidhowellstudios.com

--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Michael Sullivan
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
  It made it's point.
 
 
 it sure did. and that aside ;-) 'fuck that' is my point ;-)
 
 i hear ya. like steph said it's old. i'm over it though.
 
 sull
 
 On 4/24/06, David Howell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  I dont know? I watched it and (of course it's wasy to say this now) I
  felt it was a fake. No...I cant prove why I thought it was a fake.
  There was just something. I went on my day not really thinking about
  it all that much. Sad to say, I've probably become cold to any sort of
  televised human death.
 
  BUT...
 
  The video did get a reaction.
 
  Sull...art making aside fuck that. Let's see here...I'll try to
  dust off my degree here and attempt to put it to some use ;)
 
  Art has a purpose. To create an impact be that good or bad. I stated
  in an email earlier today to a friend that (parphrasing) indifference
  is the root of evil to art. You certainly arent indifferent to this
  video. So...in a sense, it was successful. It made you feel.
 
  It made it's point.
 
  David
  http://www.davidhowellstudios.com
 
  --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Michael Sullivan
  sulleleven@ wrote:
  
   Bottom line for me is... I dont dig it. I feel like shitty
  about the
   whole thing. That I actually gave a shit about someone I didnt even
   know wasted emotions and wasted time. Art making aside fuck
  that.
  
   sull
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  Yahoo! Groups Links
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 --
 Sull
 http://vlogdir.com
 http://SpreadTheMedia.org







  




  
  
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[videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz

2006-04-24 Thread Heath




I feel a bit weird commenting on this since I did not get to see the 
video in question until after I had read it was not 
true...Looking at it after the fact I have no emotional response 
to the video itself...

BUT I do to the overall idea of it..I thought it was done in 
poor taste and it is personal for me..with every stunt like 
this, and I do call it a stunt, it cheapens those who put very REAL 
emotion into there vlogs or posts.I know for me the 'A soldiers 
Thank you I did was VERY hard for me to do and I almost didn't post 
it. It may not seem like a big deal to some but for me it was. It 
was my real feelings and emotion. Most of my stuff is just goof, I 
know that but that was me at my core level. When you play with 
people's empathy you are slowing destroying the very thing that 
makes us human. 








--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Stephanie Bryant 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Jen, thank you for chiming in NOW and not letting the fascinating
 discussion go on.
 
 We've had this conversation on this list before, last year when a
 vlogger faked having his kids taken away for something in his vlog.
 Now, as then, and as with every other fake emotional manipulation 
in
 the blogosphere, I am not amused by it.
 
 There is an assumed contract between the blogger and the audience
 that what's there is in some way or another real. This is 
especially
 true in video, which is easy to manipulate but seems so real.
 
 When a blog is fiction, it's best to identify it as such. 
Somewhere,
 somehow, even if it's subtle.
 
 More importantly is when a blog blurs the line between fiction and
 non-fiction. For instance, when Kevin uses his real name but vlogs 
his
 fake death. That's not right, somehow.
 
 You are fascinated by the reactions because you were not 
manipulated.
 Kevin is your student and you know he's okay.
 
 I have stopped counting the number of times someone I know online
 (or someone they know and they forward the information) has:
 1) Died unexpectedly
 2) Contracted a terrible illness
 3) Needed financial assistance for an abused pet
 4) Been abused
 5) Had a pregnancy/baby
 
 All of which, it turned out, never happened.
 
 What seems to happen is this:
 1) The person posts some announcement of the terrible thing, 
either as
 themselves or using an assumed identity. Various facts and proof 
are
 offered.
 2) The audience or community responds with a show of emotional
 support, grief, concern, and/or money or cards.
 3) One or two people in the community respond with Um this 
doesn't add up.
 4) The rest of the community attacks the skeptic, often viciously.
 [Fortunately this didn't happen here, which is a real testament to 
the
 caliber of the vlogging community.]
 5) The truth is revealed, the person never existed, the death was a
 hoax, there was no baby, etc. Jen, thank you for making this step
 happen VERY quickly-- the longer the suspense goes on, the worse it
 gets. Hopefully nobody had the opportunity to lose sleep over this.
 6) The rest of the community splits between You should be ashamed 
for
 manipulating us! and you should all be ashamed for attacking the
 skeptic! (even though they did nothing to defend the skeptic,
 either).
 7) [Optional] The perpetrator tries to defend himself/herself 
with It
 was a joke, or It was an experiment. My favorite is it was an
 experiment because it's a completely unethical method of human
 experimentation, and really obviously a cop-out from the backlash
 against manipulating people.
 8) Next time, all those people will be more skeptical of OMG, he's
 DEAD! posts. Eventually, we will all be too jaded and skeptical to
 continue to see each other as real human beings. Then, we'll fake 
our
 own deaths/illnesses/pregnancies, because it doesn't really matter 
if
 we hurt a couple hundred people-- they weren't real anyway.
 
 Now, obviously these don't all relate to this particular case. But 
one
 might ask: has Kevin never been in an online community before? 
Does he
 not know about this kind of BS and how little it's appreciated or
 tolerated on the net? And are we seriously still exploring this 
as
 if it were somehow new? This isn't new-- people have been pulling 
this
 crap since the first time two modems resolved their connection.
 
 --Stephanie
 [I've decided nobody online actually dies, because every time it
 happens, it's a stupid f'ing joke.]
 
 On 4/24/06, Jen Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  I'm wondering whether to chime in now, or wait and watch this
  discussion go for a while more. I find it fascinating.
 
  Kevin is fine and well. Probably tired and overwhelmed since 
it's the
  end of the semester, but he's otherwise perfectly fine. I just 
saw him
  this afternoon in class.
 
 --
 Stephanie Bryant
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Blogs, vlogs, and audioblogs at:
 http://www.mortaine.com/blogs










  
  
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[videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz

2006-04-24 Thread Stan Hirson, Sarah Jones




Has Kevin been reading this thread? Is he willing to join in on the
discussion? That might be a learning opportunity, too.

Stan Hirson


--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Jen Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Thinking about all this driving home, I remembered that one of my
 strategies going into this school year was to make the _audience_ real
 for the students. To get them to post their films online for a
audience
 of real people.

...

 Once it becomes real that your actions are affecting other people, we
 all tend to make better choices...

So
 tell Kevin what you think, question his choices, make him think about
 them. And maybe he'll make the same choices again, but at least he'll
 have thought about: what kind of work does he want to make? why? what
 kind of impact or effect does he want to have?? etc...








  




  
  
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[videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz

2006-04-24 Thread xicastmedia




Perhaps the reason that more aren't simply outraged on the list is due
 mostly to the fact that there is no emotional tie to Kevin.

Those of us that have exposed a great deal of ourselves online during
times of grief and mourning appreciate the risk involved as well as
the surprising benefits.

http://humanjourney.org/logdisplay.asp?POSTID=171 is just one example
of real betrayal where emotional involvement jeapordizes the
connectedness we are capable of in online communities.

Had Keven established himself in the videoblogging community and then
posted this, I think the responses would have been far more polarized.


--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Heath [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I feel a bit weird commenting on this since I did not get to see the 
 video in question until after I had read it was not 
 true...Looking at it after the fact I have no emotional response 
 to the video itself...
 
 BUT I do to the overall idea of it..I thought it was done in 
 poor taste and it is personal for me..with every stunt like 
 this, and I do call it a stunt, it cheapens those who put very REAL 
 emotion into there vlogs or posts.I know for me the 'A soldiers 
 Thank you I did was VERY hard for me to do and I almost didn't post 
 it. It may not seem like a big deal to some but for me it was. It 
 was my real feelings and emotion. Most of my stuff is just goof, I 
 know that but that was me at my core level. When you play with 
 people's empathy you are slowing destroying the very thing that 
 makes us human. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Stephanie Bryant 
 mortaine@ wrote:
 
  Jen, thank you for chiming in NOW and not letting the fascinating
  discussion go on.
  
  We've had this conversation on this list before, last year when a
  vlogger faked having his kids taken away for something in his vlog.
  Now, as then, and as with every other fake emotional manipulation 
 in
  the blogosphere, I am not amused by it.
  
  There is an assumed contract between the blogger and the audience
  that what's there is in some way or another real. This is 
 especially
  true in video, which is easy to manipulate but seems so real.
  
  When a blog is fiction, it's best to identify it as such. 
 Somewhere,
  somehow, even if it's subtle.
  
  More importantly is when a blog blurs the line between fiction and
  non-fiction. For instance, when Kevin uses his real name but vlogs 
 his
  fake death. That's not right, somehow.
  
  You are fascinated by the reactions because you were not 
 manipulated.
  Kevin is your student and you know he's okay.
  
  I have stopped counting the number of times someone I know online
  (or someone they know and they forward the information) has:
  1) Died unexpectedly
  2) Contracted a terrible illness
  3) Needed financial assistance for an abused pet
  4) Been abused
  5) Had a pregnancy/baby
  
  All of which, it turned out, never happened.
  
  What seems to happen is this:
  1) The person posts some announcement of the terrible thing, 
 either as
  themselves or using an assumed identity. Various facts and proof 
 are
  offered.
  2) The audience or community responds with a show of emotional
  support, grief, concern, and/or money or cards.
  3) One or two people in the community respond with Um this 
 doesn't add up.
  4) The rest of the community attacks the skeptic, often viciously.
  [Fortunately this didn't happen here, which is a real testament to 
 the
  caliber of the vlogging community.]
  5) The truth is revealed, the person never existed, the death was a
  hoax, there was no baby, etc. Jen, thank you for making this step
  happen VERY quickly-- the longer the suspense goes on, the worse it
  gets. Hopefully nobody had the opportunity to lose sleep over this.
  6) The rest of the community splits between You should be ashamed 
 for
  manipulating us! and you should all be ashamed for attacking the
  skeptic! (even though they did nothing to defend the skeptic,
  either).
  7) [Optional] The perpetrator tries to defend himself/herself 
 with It
  was a joke, or It was an experiment. My favorite is it was an
  experiment because it's a completely unethical method of human
  experimentation, and really obviously a cop-out from the backlash
  against manipulating people.
  8) Next time, all those people will be more skeptical of OMG, he's
  DEAD! posts. Eventually, we will all be too jaded and skeptical to
  continue to see each other as real human beings. Then, we'll fake 
 our
  own deaths/illnesses/pregnancies, because it doesn't really matter 
 if
  we hurt a couple hundred people-- they weren't real anyway.
  
  Now, obviously these don't all relate to this particular case. But 
 one
  might ask: has Kevin never been in an online community before? 
 Does he
  not know about this kind of BS and how little it's appreciated or
  tolerated on the net? And are we seriously still exploring this 
 as
  if it were somehow new?

Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz




I emailed him the URL to the yahoo webpage with the threat. He'll have 
to subscribe to respond. I'd like him to join in, for sure -- we'll 
see. Since it's the last week of school he may be way too busy to do 
anything outside of schoolwork.

Any comments to on his blog will for sure get to him,
or email him directly at:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Perhaps he'll digest this conversation more later, once school is out.

I'd really like to discuss the matter in the performance / process 
workshop lab we are participating in together (taught by Ralph Lemon - 
the one i was talking about earlier.) I've cc'ed Ralph on all this -- 
we could have the discussion + videotape it and post that! We'll see -- 
again, time is short 'cause it's the end-of-school crunch time. Classes 
are all final project presentation days and such these days.

We'll definitely talk about it in my videoblogging class next Monday. I 
actually emailed the entire class and told them to read the listserv 
thread (are any of you reading this?? email me that you are and 
I'll give you extra credit :-)

jen




jenSimmons
http://www.jensimmons.com
On Apr 24, 2006, at 8:36 PM, Stan Hirson, Sarah Jones wrote:

 Has Kevin been reading this thread?  Is he willing to join in on the
 discussion?  That might be a learning opportunity, too.

 Stan Hirson






  
  
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Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz




 I emailed him the URL to the yahoo webpage with the threat

I meant thread -- (what threat would that have been -- no no no)
j



  




  
  
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[videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz

2006-04-24 Thread missbhavens1969




--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Stephanie Bryant [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

waitaminutewaitaminutewaitaminute! Wait. A. Minute.


 There is an assumed contract between the blogger and the audience
 that what's there is in some way or another real. This is especially
 true in video, which is easy to manipulate but seems so real.

Contract? What assumed contract? There is no contract. There is no contract whether it is 
video, text or photos. This is the internet. There can be no assumptions. I WISH there was 
an assumed contract between a blogger and their audience. I like to *think* that I have 
created such a space where what little audience I have feels that what I present is honest 
and real, but there's no way as an audience member that *I* assume that the blogger/
vlogger I'm viewing has done the same. I don't think this makes me someone who lacks 
trust, I think this makes me a conscientous consumer. I take what I see at face value and if 
it ellicits an emotional response--then that's what it does. I rather hope that it does.


 When a blog is fiction, it's best to identify it as such. 

I agree with you, there.

 
 More importantly is when a blog blurs the line between fiction and
 non-fiction. For instance, when Kevin uses his real name but vlogs his
 fake death. That's not right, somehow.

I pretty much agree with you there, too. Somehow, the idea creeps me out.

 
 You are fascinated by the reactions because you were not manipulated.
 Kevin is your student and you know he's okay.

Ahhh...but I'm fascinated by the reactions, too and I wasn't manipulated, AND I don't know 
this kid and I wasn't entirely sure he was okay.

...
 Hopefully nobody had the opportunity to lose sleep over this.

I might, just because it was all sort of creepy. Not because my emotions were manipulated 
or I was deeply worried about whether it was all real or not

... 
 But one might ask: has Kevin never been in an online community before? Does he
 not know about this kind of BS and how little it's appreciated or
 tolerated on the net? And are we seriously still exploring this as
 if it were somehow new? This isn't new-- 

Look, I don't think a sense of community would stop someone from posting the kind of 
material that this guy posted. In fact, if it had instead been someone from this list, 
someone we all knew who posted this, and called it an experiment or called it--look 
out!-- art there would be a lot less outcry about it. It may have even gotten heaped with 
praise and called innovative. This wasn't BS: this was an assignment.


Bekah
(of course, all my videos and text posts are nothing but true and reflect my honest and 
very real feelings about absolutely everything...I want to make sure that's perfectly clear. 
Trust me.)

--
http://missbhavens.blogspot.com





  




  
  
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Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz

Was Kaycee the one a mother invented based using pictures of her daughter?It went on for awhile and she decided to end the hoax by killing off her made up online character. and I had some friends that supported *her* and were very much disturbed when they found out she never existed. Some went *offline* for several months afterwards.
On 4/24/06, Halcyon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
**My experience with fake death online**Many years ago, I encouraged a young girl (that worked for meremotely at collegeclub.com) with cancer to start a blog.After she got quite a following, she eventually died.
It turned out she never existed. Kaycee Nicole was a made uppersona.I had to deal with ALOT of backlash and internal struggles, as well.**My reaction to using fake death in any way**
The world is painfully lacking in empathy and humanity.People areso jaded, that it is hard to get them to break down the walls ofcynicism and love one another.So it is VERY VERY WRONG to fuck with people who open their hearts.
Why give people more reasons to trust less?A lie like that isSTEALING compassion from people.if it's fiction, call it so. Otherwise it is the worst kind ofdeceit.IMHO-halcyon
cockybastard.comYahoo! Groups Links* To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/
* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/-- Sullhttp://vlogdir.com
http://SpreadTheMedia.org

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Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz




i've never felt older ;-)On 4/24/06, David Howell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I do agree with you there. This has been done before time and timeagain. On BBS's, newsgroups, IRC, forums...etc. Maybe that's thereason I thought it was fake? Who knows?Maybe I am looking for more intellectual art to stir an emotion in me.
We're old Sull...ohsoold *chuckle*Davidhttp://www.davidhowellstudios.com--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com
, Michael Sullivan[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:   It made it's point. it sure did.and that aside ;-)'fuck that' is my point ;-) i hear ya.like steph said it's old.i'm over it though.
 sull On 4/24/06, David Howell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:   I dont know? I watched it and (of course it's wasy to say this now) I  felt it was a fake. No...I cant prove why I thought it was a fake.
  There was just something. I went on my day not really thinking about  it all that much. Sad to say, I've probably become cold to any sort of  televised human death. 
  BUT...   The video did get a reaction.   Sull...art making aside fuck that. Let's see here...I'll try to  dust off my degree here and attempt to put it to some use ;)
   Art has a purpose. To create an impact be that good or bad. I stated  in an email earlier today to a friend that (parphrasing) indifference  is the root of evil to art. You certainly arent indifferent to this
  video. So...in a sense, it was successful. It made you feel.   It made it's point.   David  http://www.davidhowellstudios.com
   --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Michael Sullivan  sulleleven@ wrote: Bottom line for me is... I dont dig it.I feel like shitty
  about the   whole thing.That I actually gave a shit about someone I didnt even   know wasted emotions and wasted time.Art making aside fuck  that.  
   sull   Yahoo! Groups Links
-- Sull http://vlogdir.com http://SpreadTheMedia.org
Yahoo! Groups Links* To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/
* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
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Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz

2006-04-24 Thread Josh Wolf




Nathan Peters' videoblog was faked to a point, but then actual legal 
trouble struck him. At some point, the lines between what was really 
going on and what was staged got very much blurred. Now his site is 
not online... I don't know what the resolution was.

Josh


On Apr 24, 2006, at 7:26 PM, Michael Sullivan wrote:

 anybody remember nathan peters' experiment last year?

 hold up... that was fake?
 jesus christ! i'm pretty on top of this list and i dont recall this.
 i saw the video and knew the drama in nathans life, but the only 
 thing i recalled him doing that was fake was some of the videos 
 where he was like doing lines etc in front of his kids or something 
 like that.

 nathan contacted me requesting his vlogdir entry be removed for 
 legal reasons, which i helped him with. so that was somehow part 
 of it too?



 On 4/24/06, Anne Walk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 anybody remember nathan peters' experiment last year?

 one of the vloggers in the group staged a vlog of his children 
 being taken away (i'm still not even clear on what happened after 
 that episode!) when it was discovered to be an experiment, people 
 were understandably upset.

 this time around, people seem to be less upset...but that could be 
 because the vlogger in question was not a member of this particular 
 vlogging community.

 i think it's interesting to explore the ideas of truth and personal 
 representation. i don't know if such heavy handedness is necessary 
 to do so.

 as for the violence, i agree completely with your impassioned 
 commentary on violence in media and it's use as cathartic proxy. it 
 titillates and then it punishes and we can go on with our lives, 
 our demons sated.

 one difference between the media representation of violence and 
 Kevin's is that, with Law and Order, we can treat is as 
 entertainment. We already know it is fiction. with kevin, we think 
 he is one of us.

 anyway, coming from an art backgroud myself, i've seen a lot of 
 stuff like this and yes, you become jaded by it. the art world 
 teaches you not to believe in anything (that's been my experience).

 i'd like to ask you, jen, if you had seen the video online and did 
 not see the student afterwards, as expected...if he had carried out 
 the experiment more fully and left you and the school in the dark 
 about it (perhaps even had relatives phone in with the bad news), 
 would you still think it an interesting experiment or would it 
 become something else?




 On 4/24/06, Chuck Olsen  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Come to think of it - if Kevin's video had a Miller Lite logo at the
 end, it would be genius. :-)

 I remember camping out in the backyard in high school with my friends.
 We brought out the cordless phone (yeah, high tech!) and made some
 prank phone calls.

 When it was my turn, I pretended I was in jail and desparate to
 talk to my dad. I woke up some poor guy who obviously wasn't my
 dad. Oh shit! This is my only phone call I don't know what to 
 do!
 Rather than hang up, this guy was genuinely anguished over my
 situation and sincerely tried to help me.

 Needless to say, I felt pretty shitty after I hung up. I became
 wrapped up in my own prank, my own lie. This guy had an
 emotional response. I was manipulating his empathy. And
 that's just not fun. It felt wrong because empathy, I think, is
 part of our moral core and part our brain chemistry.

 It's only a matter of time before we see a real drunken death
 on YouTube. Everyone who has watched Kevin's video will
 probably be immediately skeptical, if not dismissive. What
 a strange feeling it will be to have that reaction, only to find
 out the death is real. Yes - it is fascinating I suppose.
 And of course it's not just Kevin, but our world, saturated
 with media violence.

 One difference between Kevin's prank and, say, Ian's final
 video where he's kidnapped - or most advertisements - is
 whether or not you believe what you're seeing is real.
 You don't see people die in advertisements. Or if you do, you
 don't think it's real. Ian's final video was pretty obviously a joke.
 So degree and context are big factors in our reactions. You know
 Kevin and have all this context for his video, not to mention,
 you know he's not dead. That's quite a different context than we have,
 and certainly the content of his video is fairly extreme.

 So in the end, I say all videobloggers must commit mass mock
 suicide and agree to never believe anything we see in video.

 (whuuuh?!?)


 --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Jen Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Well for one I have to disagree that this is worse than the 
 insidious
  creeping take-over of the vlogosphere imagination by corporate or
  corporate-copy-cat consumption-oriented / advertisy /
  product-placementy / slick-is-better /
  we-all-want-to-be-like-the-media-on-tv trends. I find that WAY more
  dangerous and problematic.
 
  I am wondering myself why I find this fascinating. I am surprised

Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz