Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz

[Jen Simmons]

>From today's LA Times:
"The Strange Web Saga of Emokid21: How an internet faker set YouTube on fire with haters, imitators and investigators"



jen

jenSimmons
http://www.jensimmons.com

___

The Strange Web Saga of Emokid21
How an internet faker set YouTube on fire with haters, imitators and investigators.
By Deborah Netburn

In a phone interview on Friday morning Benjamin Castelow Johnson, a 22-year-old International Politics major at the University of Whales said that the saga of Emokid21 Ohio began when Johnson decided not to go home for the Easter holiday.

Bored at his near empty school Johnson decided to shoot a fake video blog as a character named "Emokid21 Ohio" -- a whiny, self-involved, American college student with a penchant for wearing knit caps and hooded sweatshirts. "Some people say you don't even know what emo is, I'm like God, seriously, we do" he said in the first blog post.
<>

Click to watch video

 Johnson continued to post new Emokid21 Ohio blogs almost daily and they quickly became one of the most discussed videos on YouTube (mostly because YouTube users thought he was so annoying). At the same time Johnson told a friend of his from home about his project and she began her own fake video blog as a character named "Emogirl" who loves bad poetry and perpetually has thick chunks of hair obscuring her face.

Over the next week Emogirl and Emokid21 Ohio received so much hate mail that CBS News (believing Emokid21 Ohio really existed) contacted Johnson to see if they could interview him for a piece they were doing about bullies. Johnson also got an email from MTVu (MTV's college themed website) to see if he would be willing to do something for their website and Johnson discovered there were whole message board threads devoted to his character on thesuperficial.com website.

<>
And then the mockery started. People began to make spoofs of Emokid21 Ohio and Emogirl's blogs, such as this one from "Emodog21."

<>
 But two weeks into the emo project the foundations began to crumble. YouTube sleuths began to suspect that Emokid21 Ohio was not from Ohio after all, and that he was actually from Britain. Trying desperately to defend himself against these accusations he filmed a vblog called, "SO IM NOT FROM OHIO, EH" and flashed a social security card and tax records at the camera to try to prove his point.

But YouTube members weren't buying it. After some fancy video detective work a YouTube user named Kol Guild posted a video called "EmoKid...The Brit Git":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bC66SMV0smb8&search=Emo%20KolGuild%20Bitch%20Ohio%20Girl%20Comments

On April 26, three weeks after it all began, it ended. Somebody discovered Johnson's real life My Space page (which made it clear he was actually British) and began to circulate it around the Internet.

Johnson said he wasn't disappointed. "It was beginning to get a little silly, the amount of emails I was getting," he told us. "I've still got so many I have to get through."

He and his childhood friend ended the emo saga with two fake BBC newscasts.

Following their lead, the voice of Emodog came clean too. It turns out he was some guy who used to work on "The Howard Stern Show."

Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz

[Harold Johnson]

Here's the way I see it: If you're going to do a prank, do it well.  Did anyone see the film "The Game"?  Now that was a good prank...
 
I'm going to address a few things here.  I'm not outraged by Kevin's prank, though perhaps it's because I suspected it was phony from the get-go.  There were too many indications that the video was a stunt.  That said, the video itself was nicely executed: Convincing enough to make you wonder, at least.  A decent prank, to say the least.

 
The quasi-motto/warning I've posted on my site for a long time has been some variation of: "Don't believe everything you hear..."  (Sometimes it's "see", other times it's both "see and hear" -- other times I get silly and post "But believe everything you read!" or something to that effect.)  The reason I post this motto/warning is because I've never completely decided whether I wish my blog/site/project to be fully personal truth, or mixed/distorted by fiction.  Everything is distorted by perspective -- every "portrayal of truth" out there -- so I guess you could argue that by project is more of the latter, "distorted by fiction".  Yet I aim to tell the truth in my own way, though not by stretching the truth to the point of hoax.

 
That said, I've been tempted to hoax, though I haven't given in to the temptation yet.  I don't plan to, either: It's much to easy.  It's a cheap way to gather an audience, though it's fun to conceptualize and execute.  I have friends who always prank, and it's great fun just coming up with ideas.  For years, a friend of mine has wanted to walk into a bank wearing a ski mask.  I chuckle thinking about it.  (Then, after chuckling a bit, I realize that it's not very original, really, is it?)

 
Jen, let Kevin know this: He's got some interesting concepts, and he should continue to work them out.  Let him know that some people expect certain boundaries, though it's his choice whether to reject them or not.  There may be consequences for disrespecting those boundaries -- such as cheapening the value of his art, or losing an audience/group of peers, or far worse -- but he may find his own value in fulfilling these stunts, values which outweigh the consequences.  It's his call, ultimately, depending on his goals.

 
Yet he's got some interesting concepts: I felt his video "The Will" was a great idea, but poorly performed and produced.  Still, I applaud the effort.  Encourage Kevin to continue with concepts like that, if he is so inclined...

 
Sincerely,
 
Harold
Something That Happened:
a story unfolding through audio
http://SomethingThatHappened.com
 
 
 
 
On 4/25/06, missbhavens1969 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Stephanie Bryant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On 4/24/06, missbhavens1969 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:> I said real, not truthful, factual, or non-fiction, because I think> something like Chasing Windmills, while explicitly fictional, hits at
> truths and is real in its way. Perhaps because it is honest about> being fiction.
As I recall, there was some confusion about the ficticiousness (is that a word) of CW early on because they mentioned that "we are not actors". 
>My point was not that Kevin would have hesitated> to do this because of a sense of community or sense of belonging> (though given what Jen has said about how her students don't perceive
> their audience, perhaps he would have). My point is that he didn't> have some lesson to learn by posting it, unless he has never ever been> in an online community before-- these stupid hoaxes crop up
> frequently, in one place or another. 
But this guy didn't approach this as a hoax to fool ANY community. I didn't see any "PayPal" button for donations in his memory. It was an assigment. I don't think there is any 
reason hor him to feel defensive or to feel that he should join this list and explain himself in any way.
> Here's what Kevin has going for him in terms of this community:> 1) He doesn't seem to have set out to deceive anyone except the> hapless visitors to his vlog. He didn't promo the video here or hype
> his death movie.> 2) Jen posted QUICKLY to dispel the idea of his death, so the> speculation did not get out of hand.> 3) We've all been young and foolish. Or old and foolish. In any case,
> should he decide to join this community, I doubt he's going to get> cold-shouldered just because of this particular stunt (see item #1 for> the main reason why).> 4) His production values of his work are decent, and we can all
> appreciate well-edited videos.> 5) A sizeable handful of people respect him more for this stupid prank> because they think of it as "art," than they would have if he'd just> posted a video showing his real life.
> --Stephanie
Again. "Stunt". "Prank." These lables are yours. His was probably more like "I want a decent grade".Bekah--
http://missbhavens.blogspot.com



YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS 

 Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web.  

 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: 

Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz

[Deirdre Straughan]

On 4/25/06, Harold Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>

> > Interesting, given that we pay for entertainment precisely to have our
> > emotions manipulated - whether we like to be scared or cry
> > sentimentally, we go to movies for that. I guess the difference is
> > that, with Hollywood, we know up front that it's fake.
>
>
>
> Do we, though (know up front)?  Recall 'The Blair Witch Project', which was
> marketed as being an actual account...Not until it hit the mainstream did
> the majority of people know it was real.  Even today, there are a few
> foolish people who believe the "event" actually occurred.

And do those who originally thought so feel cheated, manipulated, etc.?

--
best regards,
Deirdré Straughan

www.beginningwithi.com (personal)
www.tvblob.com (work)


  




  
  
  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



   Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. 
   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



  

Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz

[Deirdre Straughan]

On 4/25/06, Andy Carvin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> That would be the Rollercoaster Effect. We ride rollercoasters because
> we want to be scared, while knowing in the back of our minds that we
> won't crash and die. This kind of fear with no physical consequences
> can be fun. Emotional shocks to the system are only enjoyable when
> they have the subconscious acknowledgment that what we're experiencing
> isn't real. Watching a person get killed in a movie or a video game
> can be enjoyable because we know in our heart "it's only a movie." But
> when we don't have that assurance, the experience is confusing,
> stressful, helpless, horrifying. And finding out we've been played
> makes it worse.

And yet millions of people have watched videos of real people being
really beheaded. (Not me - it's an impulse I totally don't understand,
I don't like to see violence even when I know it's fake.) And back in
classical Rome, real horrible violent death was entertainment for the
masses.

--
best regards,
Deirdré Straughan

www.beginningwithi.com (personal)
www.tvblob.com (work)





  
  
SPONSORED LINKS
  
  
  

Fireant
  
  
Individual
  
  
Use
  
  

   
  







  
  
  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



   Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. 
   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



  

Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz

[Harold Johnson]

On 4/25/06, Deirdre Straughan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

On 4/25/06, Michael Sullivan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Bottom line for me is... I dont dig it.  I feel like shitty about the> whole thing.  That I actually gave a shit about someone I didnt even> know wasted emotions and wasted time.  Art making aside fuck that.

Interesting, given that we pay for entertainment precisely to have ouremotions manipulated - whether we like to be scared or crysentimentally, we go to movies for that. I guess the difference is
that, with Hollywood, we know up front that it's fake.
 
Do we, though (know up front)?  Recall 'The Blair Witch Project', which was marketed as being an actual account...Not until it hit the mainstream did the majority of people know it was real.  Even today, there are a few foolish people who believe the "event" actually occurred.

 
Harold 


  




  
  
  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



   Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. 
   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



  

Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz

[Michael Sullivan]

Perhaps we're mad at Kevin because he got a free ride on the "willingsuspension of disbelief" ?
I'm not mad at Kevin.  I'm not the blog police.  I'm not really mad at myself either...for believing it.I don't like being tricked in this manner, but it is the reality.sull
On 4/25/06, Deirdre Straughan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 4/25/06, Michael Sullivan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:>> Bottom line for me is... I dont dig it.  I feel like shitty about the> whole thing.  That I actually gave a shit about someone I didnt even
> know wasted emotions and wasted time.  Art making aside fuck that.Interesting, given that we pay for entertainment precisely to have ouremotions manipulated - whether we like to be scared or cry
sentimentally, we go to movies for that. I guess the difference isthat, with Hollywood, we know up front that it's fake.Perhaps we're mad at Kevin because he got a free ride on the "willingsuspension of disbelief" ?
--best regards,Deirdré Straughanwww.beginningwithi.com (personal)www.tvblob.com (work)Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/-- Sullhttp://vlogdir.com http://SpreadTheMedia.org



  




  
  
  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



   Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. 
   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



  

Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz

[Andreas Haugstrup]

On Tue, 25 Apr 2006 12:29:08 +0200, Deirdre Straughan  
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On 4/25/06, Halcyon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> **My experience with fake death online**
>>
>> Many years ago, I encouraged a young girl (that worked for me
>> remotely at collegeclub.com) with cancer to start a blog.
>> After she got quite a following, she eventually died.
>> It turned out she never existed. "Kaycee Nicole" was a made up
>> persona.
>> I had to deal with ALOT of backlash and internal struggles, as well.
>
> Not knowing this particular case, I don't know if this applies, but it
> seems to me that someone trying to manipulate sympathies in this way
> and get attention actually does have some deep problems that need
> addressing - just not necessarily cancer!

Just an FYI. The Kaycee Nicole case is almost a mandatory topic when  
reading about blogs (it's certainly referenced a lot!). For once Snopes  
has better coverage than Wikipedia:  
http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/hoaxes/kaycee.htm

-- 
Andreas Haugstrup Pedersen
http://www.solitude.dk/ >
Commentary on media, communication, culture and technology.


  




  
  
  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



   Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. 
   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



  

Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz

[Deirdre Straughan]

On 4/25/06, Halcyon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> **My experience with fake death online**
>
> Many years ago, I encouraged a young girl (that worked for me
> remotely at collegeclub.com) with cancer to start a blog.
> After she got quite a following, she eventually died.
> It turned out she never existed. "Kaycee Nicole" was a made up
> persona.
> I had to deal with ALOT of backlash and internal struggles, as well.

Not knowing this particular case, I don't know if this applies, but it
seems to me that someone trying to manipulate sympathies in this way
and get attention actually does have some deep problems that need
addressing - just not necessarily cancer!

--
best regards,
Deirdré Straughan

www.beginningwithi.com (personal)
www.tvblob.com (work)





  
  
SPONSORED LINKS
  
  
  

Fireant
  
  
Individual
  
  
Use
  
  

   
  







  
  
  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



   Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. 
   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



  

Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz

[Deirdre Straughan]

On 4/25/06, Jen Simmons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> I find the whole situation constantly problematic -- and is one of the
> reasons I am not going to teach in this setting again. Too many
> students, not enough time to talk about these issues, deep deep
> energies circulating that are sexist, racist, homophobic... many of you
> would not believe how horrible and offensive half the work made around
> here is. And it's defended in the name of "not censoring" the students.
> I don't believe in censorship, but I do believe in discussion.

Interesting in light of an article I was just reading about how many
schools are trying to stop their kids using MySpace (even from home)
and/or punishing kids who post nasty things about each other,
teachers, etc., no matter where they posted it from.

But apparently Temple feels that anything goes in the name of student freedom.

Perhaps there is, or will be, a correlation between students who spend
their high school years being ridiculously oppressed and censored and
those who go wild in college expressing themselves in all sorts of
"inappropriate" ways. Recent reports (which I have not read) about
on-campus nudie magazines would also seem to tie into this.

It comes back to a point that I keep making: teach kids to use the
Internet (and every other form of communication) EARLY and
RESPONSIBLY, rather than trying to rope them off from this big scary
place. Then they have a good chance to grow up to be young adults who
use the Internet responsibly and with due respect for the feelings of
others, as well as their own reputations.


--
best regards,
Deirdré Straughan

www.beginningwithi.com (personal)
www.tvblob.com (work)


  




  
  
  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



   Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. 
   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



  

Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz

[Deirdre Straughan]

On 4/25/06, Michael Sullivan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> Bottom line for me is... I dont dig it.  I feel like shitty about the
> whole thing.  That I actually gave a shit about someone I didnt even
> know wasted emotions and wasted time.  Art making aside fuck that.

Interesting, given that we pay for entertainment precisely to have our
emotions manipulated - whether we like to be scared or cry
sentimentally, we go to movies for that. I guess the difference is
that, with Hollywood, we know up front that it's fake.

Perhaps we're mad at Kevin because he got a free ride on the "willing
suspension of disbelief" ?

--
best regards,
Deirdré Straughan

www.beginningwithi.com (personal)
www.tvblob.com (work)


  




  
  
  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



   Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. 
   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



  

Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz

[duncan]

I'm going to bite my tongue over the the bit about the 'assumed "contract" between the blogger and the audience', the thing about this discussion that is weirding me out is the talk of 'community', yes the people on the list consider themselves part of some specific 'videoblogging' community, but that doesn't mean everyone who is posting video on their blogger accounts should feel part of it  ( I know I feel less and less part of it by the day!). Kevin's video was brought to the group my someone else, not by Kevin. 
'But I
am thankful for my vlog friends, many I've met in person which
really does make it a more tangible and real thing.'I couldn't agree more Chuck, much as I enjoy these online capers, if you really want to know what someones about, to really make a judgement,  for me.. nothing substitutes sharing a real physical space with someone.
be welld(p.s. is there no first aid training in schools in the US? for what it's worth, if any of you ever do find one of your friends collapsed and not brreathing, dragging them across the floor of your house isn't the best first action to take) 
-- http://29fragiledays.blogspot.com





  
  
SPONSORED LINKS
  
  
  

Fireant
  
  
Individual
  
  
Use
  
  

   
  







  
  
  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



   Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. 
   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



  

Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz

[Harold Johnson]

Tell Kevin he's got some interesting concepts, but really poor execution.  Who was that, his girlfriend playing his mother in that short piece (of crap), "The Will"?  Totally unconvincing..and the poor acting is distracting, to say the least.  Sorry, Kev -- your work needs...work!

 
Harold
Something That Happened:
a story in text, video, and audio
http://SomethingThatHappened.com 
On 4/24/06, Jen Simmons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I'm wondering whether to chime in now, or wait and watch thisdiscussion go for a while more. I find it fascinating.
Kevin is fine and well. Probably tired and overwhelmed since it's theend of the semester, but he's otherwise perfectly fine. I just saw himthis afternoon in class.I don't know if he meant the video as a "hoax" -- or a mean trick. I'd
expect it was more of an experiment to see what would happen. It'sdefinitely in the "vlog dangerously" theme that Stephanie started forvideoblogging week. Perhaps this is over the edge for many of you?? Did
Kevin stretch things too far? And cross some line into somethingunacceptable??He's got two more posts due for class (one today that's late and onenext Monday) so I'm not sure what he has planned... perhaps it would
have made more sense for this to be his last post (if in fact he'splanning to abandon the vlog after the semester is over).Mostly I'm interested in hearing more discussion about whether or notit was "okay" for him to post such a video. What buttons did he push?
If you are offended or upset or disturbed or frightened or disgusted...then why? What is it exactly that caused your reaction? If you aren'tany of those things, but have other strong feelings, what is your
reaction? What do you think that's about??And, well, thanks for all the sympathies and concern. Kevin's not onthis email list, but I've forwarded him (and several other people) thelink to the web-based archive, so hopefully he will chime in. You can
also post comments on his blog!jenjenSimmonshttp://www.jensimmons.comOn Apr 24, 2006, at 4:22 PM, Michael Sullivan wrote:>  still waiting for Jen Simmons to chime in, as she apparently taught
> him how to vlog.>>> On 4/24/06, Andy Carvin <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:--- In> videoblogging@yahoogroups.com
 , Josh Wolf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:>> >>> > This is interesting, given that there is a video that revolves>> around a>> > funeral only weeks before this video, I am not disinclined to think
>> > that this is a joke. At the same time, it is possible that the video>> is>> > real, and assuming that it may, perhaps, be a joke is probably>> > insensitive to some extent.
>> >>> > Josh I agree that simply assuming it's a hoax is perhaps a bit insensitive>> or callous, but wondering whether it's a hoax is understandable. There>> have been countless strange stunts on the Internet, and given Kevin's
>> particular body of work, it almost has to cross your mind. Whether>> it's a hoax or not, it's probably just a matter of time before it>> catalyzes a media debate about the limits of Web 2.0
 in relation to>> appropriateness, responsibility, news, art, etc... andy>> Yahoo! Groups Links>>
>> --> Sull> http://vlogdir.com> http://SpreadTheMedia.org
>> SPONSORED LINKS> Fireant> Individual> Use>> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS>>   ▪   Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web.> >   ▪   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> >   ▪   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of> Service.
>>


  




  
  
  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



   Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. 
   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



  

Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz

[Stephanie Bryant]

On 4/24/06, missbhavens1969 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > There is an assumed "contract" between the blogger and the audience
> > that what's there is in some way or another real. This is especially
> > true in video, which is easy to manipulate but seems so real.
>
> Contract?  What assumed contract? There is no contract. There is no contract whether it is
> video, text or photos. This is the internet. There can be no assumptions. I WISH there was
> an assumed contract between a blogger and their audience. I like to *think* that I have
> created such a space where what little audience I have feels that what I present is honest
> and real, but there's no way as an audience member that *I* assume that the blogger/
> vlogger I'm viewing has done the same. I don't think this makes me someone who lacks
> trust, I think this makes me a conscientous consumer. I take what I see at face value and if
> it ellicits an emotional response--then that's what it does. I rather hope that it does.

I said real, not truthful, factual, or non-fiction, because I think
something like Chasing Windmills, while explicitly fictional, hits at
truths and is real in its way. Perhaps because it is honest about
being fiction.

The "contract" between a blogger and audience is no more nor less than
that between any two people-- it's a social contract that, by an
large, you and I won't try to deceive each other. Not legally binding,
but socially binding. I inherently want to believe that what people
report as having happened to them, when they report it in a diary-like
format, is true. If they indicate it's non-factual, then I assume that
there's a core to the idea that somehow speaks to them, or that it's
the product of some source of creativity.

"Look, I don't think a "sense of community" would stop someone from
posting the kind of
material that this guy posted. In fact, if it had instead been someone
from this list,
someone "we"  all "knew" who posted this, and called it an
"experiment" or called it--look
out!-- "art" there would be a lot less outcry about it. It may have
even gotten heaped with
praise and called "innovative". This wasn't BS: this was an assignment."

I think this was BS. My point was not that Kevin would have hesitated
to do this because of a sense of community or sense of belonging
(though given what Jen has said about how her students don't perceive
their audience, perhaps he would have). My point is that he didn't
have some lesson to learn by posting it, unless he has never ever been
in an online community before-- these stupid hoaxes crop up
frequently, in one place or another. And when it WAS someone from this
list last year, a lot of people (myself included) cried foul. And yes,
a lot of people cried "art," too, but my personal opinion of "it was
art" ranks that excuse somewhere around "it was a joke."

Anyway, I again want to thank Jen for dispelling this FAST, because it
makes a huge difference in how much impact it has on perceptions of
Kevin and his work. Of course, Kevin's been invited to join this list,
and he may be hesitant or defensive about doing so. Hopefully, he
won't take all this talk too personally-- after all, the student we're
talking about right now is no more real to us than the boy we saw die
on film. The Internet is the great dehumanizer, isn't it?

Here's what Kevin has going for him in terms of this community:
1) He doesn't seem to have set out to deceive anyone except the
hapless visitors to his vlog. He didn't promo the video here or hype
his death movie.
2) Jen posted QUICKLY to dispel the idea of his death, so the
speculation did not get out of hand.
3) We've all been young and foolish. Or old and foolish. In any case,
should he decide to join this community, I doubt he's going to get
cold-shouldered just because of this particular stunt (see item #1 for
the main reason why).
4) His production values of his work are decent, and we can all
appreciate well-edited videos.
5) A sizeable handful of people respect him more for this stupid prank
because they think of it as "art," than they would have if he'd just
posted a video showing his real life.

--Stephanie

--
Stephanie Bryant
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Blogs, vlogs, and audioblogs at:
http://www.mortaine.com/blogs


  




  
  
  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



   Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. 
   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



  

Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz

[Deirdre Straughan]

I have doubts about the authenticity of this piece but, FWIW, vlogging
can be part of mourning - it was for me, very recently:
http://www.beginningwithi.com/aboutme/rosiefuneral.html

On 4/24/06, Josh Leo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> I woudl think that it would take more time for a close
> friend to actually sift through this stuff and then manage to post it.
>
> death
> few days later funeral
> mourning
> vlogging?
>
> just seems like there would be more time before the vlogging stage

--
best regards,
Deirdré Straughan

www.beginningwithi.com (personal)
www.tvblob.com (work)


  




  
  
  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



   Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. 
   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



  

Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz

[Jen Simmons]

Didn't Nathan Peters eventually really loose his kids? I know he did 
loose one. And he turned his site into a all-video-porn site -- 
teasters for free, pay to get more. It definitely seemed like the 
'staged' events were blurred with real ones, and that his life was 
deteriorating into a mess, even though it wasn't quite as bad as it 
seemed when he was first 'recording' the visits from child protective 
services and 'documenting' himself sorting coke with his kids at home 
alone...

At what point does the sense of community and closeness that 
videoblogging creates turn into something real that lasts through a 
betrayal or crisis? At first Nathan's situation seemed like a real 
crisis where many people reached out to him to help. Then it seemed he 
was completely lying, and many people were pissed / dropped his feed, 
etc. Then after a while it seemed to come out that maybe it wasn't all 
lies, that he really was loosing his kids and getting too involved with 
drugs.

It makes me think about how I've seen more than one person vlogging who 
seems mentally ill / unstable -- and yet, unlike an actual friend who 
lives in the same city with me, I don't have any real connection or 
investment or way to be there for them. Sometimes I watch, sometimes I 
don't. Sometimes I comment and hope my handful of words might be 
helpful. Mostly I just think, wow, that person is manic, or depressed, 
or a bit off right now.

An online friendship / video exchange does not equal a face-to-face 
friendship. Online connections can turn into face-to-face friendships, 
as we've all seen over and over. But when the relationship says 
strictly in the realm of the internet, can it really provide the same 
kind of support??

So what happens when a vlogger who doesn't have face-to-face 
connections with the people watching their vlog, uses that space to cry 
out for help / confess a downward spiral into a mess / to reach out for 
connections to other people ... it's kind of a weird situation. Video 
is much more personal, yet it's just a form of electronic 
communication. It's not really a friendship all on it's own -- is it. 
Thinking of Nathan makes me wonder about all this. Many of us were all 
part of that journey of his with him -- and yet we weren't with him, 
and many of us "bailed" (with a kind of what-the-fuck?!? I'm out of 
here) when we realized how much lying was going on. When a person is in 
your family or is a real friend, we don't bail as quickly or detach as 
easily. We stick around and give more.


jen



jenSimmons
http://www.jensimmons.com
On Apr 24, 2006, at 11:51 PM, Josh Wolf wrote:

>  Nathan Peters' videoblog was faked to a point, but then actual legal 
>  trouble struck him. At some point, the lines between what was really 
>  going on and what was staged got very much blurred. Now his site is 
>  not online... I don't know what the resolution was.
>
>  Josh



  




  
  
  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



   Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. 
   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



  

Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz

[Josh Wolf]

Nathan Peters' videoblog was faked to a point, but then actual legal  
trouble struck him. At some point, the lines between what was really  
going on and what was staged got very much blurred. Now his site is  
not online... I don't know what the resolution was.

Josh


On Apr 24, 2006, at 7:26 PM, Michael Sullivan wrote:

> anybody remember "nathan peters' experiment" last year?
>
> hold up... that was fake?
> jesus christ!  i'm pretty on top of this list and i dont recall this.
> i saw the video and knew the drama in nathans life, but the only  
> thing i recalled him doing that was fake was some of the videos  
> where he was like doing lines etc in front of his kids or something  
> like that.
>
> nathan contacted me requesting his vlogdir entry be removed for  
> legal reasons, which i helped him with.  so that was somehow part  
> of it too?
>
>
>
> On 4/24/06, Anne Walk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> anybody remember "nathan peters' experiment" last year?
>
> one of the vloggers in the group staged a vlog of his children  
> being taken away (i'm still not even clear on what happened after  
> that episode!) when it was discovered to be an "experiment", people  
> were understandably upset.
>
> this time around, people seem to be less upset...but that could be  
> because the vlogger in question was not a member of this particular  
> vlogging community.
>
> i think it's interesting to explore the ideas of truth and personal  
> representation. i don't know if such heavy handedness is necessary  
> to do so.
>
> as for the violence, i agree completely with your impassioned  
> commentary on violence in media and it's use as cathartic proxy. it  
> titillates and then it punishes and we can go on with our lives,  
> our demons sated.
>
> one difference between "the media" representation of violence and  
> Kevin's is that, with  Law and Order, we can treat is as  
> entertainment. We already know it is fiction. with kevin, we think  
> he is "one of us".
>
> anyway, coming from an art backgroud myself, i've seen a lot of  
> stuff like this and yes, you become jaded by it. the art world  
> teaches you not to believe in anything (that's been my experience).
>
> i'd like to ask you, jen, if you had seen the video online and did  
> not see the student afterwards, as expected...if he had carried out  
> the experiment more fully and left you and the school in the dark  
> about it (perhaps even had relatives phone in with the bad news),  
> would you still think it an interesting experiment or would it  
> become something else?
>
>
>
>
> On 4/24/06, Chuck Olsen < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Come to think of it - if Kevin's video had a Miller Lite logo at the
> end, it would be genius. :-)
>
> I remember camping out in the backyard in high school with my friends.
> We brought out the cordless phone (yeah, high tech!) and made some
> prank phone calls.
>
> When it was my turn, I pretended I was in jail and desparate to
> talk to my dad. I woke up some poor guy who obviously wasn't my
> dad. "Oh shit! This is my only phone call I don't know what to  
> do!"
> Rather than hang up, this guy was genuinely anguished over my
> situation and sincerely tried to help me.
>
> Needless to say, I felt pretty shitty after I hung up. I became
> wrapped up in my own prank, my own lie. This guy had an
> emotional response. I was manipulating his empathy. And
> that's just not fun. It felt wrong because empathy, I think, is
> part of our moral core and part our brain chemistry.
>
> It's only a matter of time before we see a real drunken death
> on YouTube. Everyone who has watched Kevin's video will
> probably be immediately skeptical, if not dismissive. What
> a strange feeling it will be to have that reaction, only to find
> out the death is real. Yes - it is fascinating I suppose.
> And of course it's not just Kevin, but our world, saturated
> with media violence.
>
> One difference between Kevin's "prank" and, say, Ian's final
> video where he's kidnapped - or most advertisements - is
> whether or not you believe what you're seeing is real.
> You don't see people die in advertisements. Or if you do, you
> don't think it's real. Ian's final video was pretty obviously a joke.
> So degree and context are big factors in our reactions. You know
> Kevin and have all this context for his video, not to mention,
> you know he's not dead. That's quite a different context than we have,
> and certainly the content of his video is fairly extreme.
>
> So in the end, I say all videobloggers must commit mass mock
> suicide and agree to never believe anything we see in video.
>
> (whuuuh?!?)
>
>
> --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Jen Simmons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Well for one I have to disagree that this is "worse" than the  
> insidious
> > creeping take-over of the vlogosphere imagination by corporate or
> > corporate-copy-cat consumption-oriented / advertisy /
> > product-placementy / slick-is-better /
> >

Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz

[Michael Sullivan]

anybody remember "nathan peters' experiment" last year?hold up... that was fake?jesus christ!  i'm pretty on top of this list and i dont recall this.i saw the video and knew the drama in nathans life, but the only thing i recalled him doing that was fake was some of the videos where he was like doing lines etc in front of his kids or something like that.   
nathan contacted me requesting his vlogdir entry be removed for legal reasons, which i helped him with.  so that was somehow part of it too?  On 4/24/06, 
Anne Walk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



anybody remember "nathan peters' experiment" last year?one of the vloggers in the group staged a vlog of his children being taken away (i'm still not even clear on what happened after that episode!) when it was discovered to be an "experiment", people were understandably upset.
this time around, people seem to be less upset...but that could be because the vlogger in question was not a member of this particular vlogging community.i think it's interesting to explore the ideas of truth and personal representation. i don't know if such heavy handedness is necessary to do so.
as for the violence, i agree completely with your impassioned commentary on violence in media and it's use as cathartic proxy. it titillates and then it punishes and we can go on with our lives, our demons sated.

one difference between "the media" representation of violence and Kevin's is that, with  Law and Order, we can treat is as entertainment. We already know it is fiction. with kevin, we think he is "one of us".
anyway, coming from an art backgroud myself, i've seen a lot of stuff like this and yes, you become jaded by it. the art world teaches you not to believe in anything (that's been my experience). i'd like to ask you, jen, if you had seen the video online and did not see the student afterwards, as expected...if he had carried out the experiment more fully and left you and the school in the dark about it (perhaps even had relatives phone in with the bad news), would you still think it an interesting experiment or would it become something else?
On 4/24/06, Chuck Olsen <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Come to think of it - if Kevin's video had a Miller Lite logo at theend, it would be genius. :-)I remember camping out in the backyard in high school with my friends.We brought out the cordless phone (yeah, high tech!) and made some
prank phone calls.When it was my turn, I pretended I was in jail and desparate totalk to my dad. I woke up some poor guy who obviously wasn't mydad. "Oh shit! This is my only phone call I don't know what to do!"
Rather than hang up, this guy was genuinely anguished over mysituation and sincerely tried to help me.Needless to say, I felt pretty shitty after I hung up. I becamewrapped up in my own prank, my own lie. This guy had an
emotional response. I was manipulating his empathy. Andthat's just not fun. It felt wrong because empathy, I think, ispart of our moral core and part our brain chemistry.It's only a matter of time before we see a real drunken death
on YouTube. Everyone who has watched Kevin's video willprobably be immediately skeptical, if not dismissive. Whata strange feeling it will be to have that reaction, only to findout the death is real. Yes - it is fascinating I suppose.
And of course it's not just Kevin, but our world, saturatedwith media violence.One difference between Kevin's "prank" and, say, Ian's finalvideo where he's kidnapped - or most advertisements - is
whether or not you believe what you're seeing is real.You don't see people die in advertisements. Or if you do, youdon't think it's real. Ian's final video was pretty obviously a joke.So degree and context are big factors in our reactions. You know
Kevin and have all this context for his video, not to mention,you know he's not dead. That's quite a different context than we have,and certainly the content of his video is fairly extreme.So in the end, I say all videobloggers must commit mass mock
suicide and agree to never believe anything we see in video.(whuuuh?!?)--- In 
videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Jen Simmons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Well for one I have to disagree that this is "worse" than the insidious> creeping take-over of the vlogosphere imagination by corporate or> corporate-copy-cat consumption-oriented / advertisy /
> product-placementy / slick-is-better /> we-all-want-to-be-like-the-media-on-tv trends. I find that WAY more> dangerous and problematic.>> I am wondering myself why I find this fascinating. I am surprised by my
> own reaction. Perhaps it's because I know Kevin and there's something> not-typical about his approach to all the violent weird stupid> perverted content that I am way way tired of after teaching student
> filmmaking in Philadelphia for the last three years. He is handling the> same subjects, but somehow there is something else going on too --> perhaps it's just that he's smart and it shows to me, while most of the
> other students make such 

Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz

[Michael Sullivan]

i've never felt older ;-)On 4/24/06, David Howell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I do agree with you there. This has been done before time and timeagain. On BBS's, newsgroups, IRC, forums...etc. Maybe that's thereason I thought it was fake? Who knows?Maybe I am looking for more intellectual "art" to stir an emotion in me.
We're old Sull...ohsoold *chuckle*Davidhttp://www.davidhowellstudios.com--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com
, "Michael Sullivan"<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:>> >> > It made it's point.>>> it sure did.  and that aside ;-)  'fuck that' is my point ;-)>> i hear ya.  like steph said it's old.  i'm over it though.
>> sull>> On 4/24/06, David Howell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:> >> > I dont know? I watched it and (of course it's wasy to say this now) I> > felt it was a fake. No...I cant prove why I thought it was a fake.
> > There was just something. I went on my day not really thinking about> > it all that much. Sad to say, I've probably become cold to any sort of> > "televised" human death.> >
> > BUT...> >> > The video did get a reaction.> >> > Sull..."art making aside fuck that." Let's see here...I'll try to> > dust off my degree here and attempt to put it to some use ;)
> >> > Art has a purpose. To create an impact be that good or bad. I stated> > in an email earlier today to a friend that (parphrasing) indifference> > is the root of evil to art. You certainly arent indifferent to this
> > video. So...in a sense, it was successful. It made you feel.> >> > It made it's point.> >> > David> > http://www.davidhowellstudios.com
> >> > --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Sullivan"> >  wrote:> > >> > > Bottom line for me is... I dont dig it.  I feel like shitty
> > about the> > > whole thing.  That I actually gave a shit about someone I didnt even> > > know wasted emotions and wasted time.  Art making aside fuck> > that.> > >
> > > sull> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Yahoo! Groups Links> >> >> >> >
> >> >>  --> Sull> http://vlogdir.com> http://SpreadTheMedia.org>
Yahoo! Groups Links<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/-- Sullhttp://vlogdir.com 
http://SpreadTheMedia.org


  




  
  
  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



   Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. 
   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



  

Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz

[Michael Sullivan]

Was Kaycee the one a mother invented based using pictures of her daughter?It went on for awhile and she decided to end the hoax by killing off her made up online character. and  I had some friends that supported *her* and were very much disturbed when they found out she never existed.  Some went *offline* for several months afterwards.
On 4/24/06, Halcyon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
**My experience with fake death online**Many years ago, I encouraged a young girl (that worked for meremotely at collegeclub.com) with cancer to start a blog.After she got quite a following, she eventually died.
It turned out she never existed. "Kaycee Nicole" was a made uppersona.I had to deal with ALOT of backlash and internal struggles, as well.**My reaction to using fake death in any way**
The world is painfully lacking in empathy and humanity.  People areso jaded, that it is hard to get them to break down the walls ofcynicism and love one another.So it is VERY VERY WRONG to fuck with people who open their hearts.
Why give people more reasons to trust less?  A lie like that isSTEALING compassion from people.if it's fiction, call it so. Otherwise it is the worst kind ofdeceit.IMHO-halcyon
cockybastard.comYahoo! Groups Links<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/-- Sullhttp://vlogdir.com 
http://SpreadTheMedia.org


  




  
  
  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



   Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. 
   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



  

Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz

[Jen Simmons]

>  I emailed him the URL to the yahoo webpage with the threat

I meant "thread" -- (what threat would that have been -- no no no)
j



  




  
  
  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



   Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. 
   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



  

Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz

[Jen Simmons]

I emailed him the URL to the yahoo webpage with the threat. He'll have 
to subscribe to respond. I'd like him to join in, for sure -- we'll 
see. Since it's the last week of school he may be way too busy to do 
anything outside of schoolwork.

Any comments to on his blog will for sure get to him,
or email him directly at:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Perhaps he'll digest this conversation more later, once school is out.

I'd really like to discuss the matter in the performance / process 
workshop lab we are participating in together (taught by Ralph Lemon - 
the one i was talking about earlier.) I've cc'ed Ralph on all this -- 
we could have the discussion + videotape it and post that! We'll see -- 
again, time is short 'cause it's the end-of-school crunch time. Classes 
are all final project presentation days and such these days.

We'll definitely talk about it in my videoblogging class next Monday. I 
actually emailed the entire class and told them to read the listserv 
thread (are any of you reading this?? email me that you are and 
I'll give you extra credit :-)

jen




jenSimmons
http://www.jensimmons.com
On Apr 24, 2006, at 8:36 PM, Stan Hirson, Sarah Jones wrote:

>  Has Kevin been reading this thread?  Is he willing to join in on the
>  discussion?  That might be a learning opportunity, too.
>
>  Stan Hirson






  
  
SPONSORED LINKS
  
  
  

Fireant
  
  
Individual
  
  
Use
  
  

   
  







  
  
  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



   Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. 
   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



  

Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz

[Jen Simmons]

On Apr 24, 2006, at 8:16 PM, Anne Walk wrote:

> i'd like to ask you, jen, if you had seen the video online and did not 
> see the student afterwards, as expected...if he had carried out the 
> experiment more fully and left you and the school in the dark about it 
> (perhaps even had relatives phone in with the bad news), would you 
> still think it an interesting experiment or would it become something 
> else?

yeah,
Kevin posted the video last monday (a week ago). I saw that he'd 
posted, but hadn't watched it yet. Then today I taught class at 10am. 
And around 3:30 I got an email from Michael Sullivan offering his 
sympathies and asking what had happened. That's when I first saw the 
video. It's only because I had Kevin's face burned into my mind from 
class earlier that I didn't worry. In fact, I wasn't sure if Michael's 
email was for real or not -- but then I realized, yes, he really did 
mean "i'm sorry for your loss".

If instead this video had been posted yesterday and Michael had emailed 
me last night, I would have been quite freaked out. Worried. I would 
have emailed Kevin and tried to find out what had happened. And felt 
like email was a sorry-ass way to try and see if someone is alive. I 
may have called the school or tried to get a phone number. And I would 
have gone into class this morning hoping the video was a fictional 
drama and not real -- but I may not have known, and arrived seriously 
wondering if I was about to see him, or have to announce to the class 
that something horrible had happened. I'm glad I didn't experience the 
video that way.

I'm sure I would have been very upset if I had thought it was real. 
Much more than if it were a stranger because I really like Kevin and 
his quirky ideas. And it's always upsetting when something awful 
happens to our students at Temple. They are going through a lot -- and 
I've already experienced a fellow grad student getting shot, another 
grad student was assaulted on campus after our class one night (not too 
badly, but still), an undergrad in my class got pregnant (with very 
conservative parents / family / culture) and had to drop out of school, 
several students have had relatives or close friends killed, _many_ are 
heavily addicted to drugs (illegal and prescription), others have been 
recently robbed or live near people who have been robbed... we live on 
the edge, that's for sure.

jen



  




  
  
  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



   Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. 
   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



  

Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz

[Michael Sullivan]

It made it's point.
 
it sure did.  and that aside ;-)  'fuck that' is my point ;-) 
i hear ya.  like steph said it's old.  i'm over it though.
 
sull 
On 4/24/06, David Howell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I dont know? I watched it and (of course it's wasy to say this now) Ifelt it was a fake. No...I cant prove why I thought it was a fake.
There was just something. I went on my day not really thinking aboutit all that much. Sad to say, I've probably become cold to any sort of"televised" human death.BUT...The video did get a reaction.
Sull..."art making aside fuck that." Let's see here...I'll try todust off my degree here and attempt to put it to some use ;)Art has a purpose. To create an impact be that good or bad. I stated
in an email earlier today to a friend that (parphrasing) indifferenceis the root of evil to art. You certainly arent indifferent to thisvideo. So...in a sense, it was successful. It made you feel.It made it's point.
Davidhttp://www.davidhowellstudios.com--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Sullivan"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:>> Bottom line for me is... I dont dig it.  I feel like shittyabout the> whole thing.  That I actually gave a shit about someone I didnt even> know wasted emotions and wasted time.  Art making aside fuck
that.>> sull>Yahoo! Groups Links<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
   http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/-- Sullhttp://vlogdir.com 
http://SpreadTheMedia.org 


  




  
  
  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



   Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. 
   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



  

Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz

[Anne Walk]

anybody remember "nathan peters' experiment" last year?one of the vloggers in the group staged a vlog of his children being taken away (i'm still not even clear on what happened after that episode!) when it was discovered to be an "experiment", people were understandably upset.
this time around, people seem to be less upset...but that could be because the vlogger in question was not a member of this particular vlogging community.i think it's interesting to explore the ideas of truth and personal representation. i don't know if such heavy handedness is necessary to do so.
as for the violence, i agree completely with your impassioned commentary on violence in media and it's use as cathartic proxy. it titillates and then it punishes and we can go on with our lives, our demons sated.
one difference between "the media" representation of violence and Kevin's is that, with  Law and Order, we can treat is as entertainment. We already know it is fiction. with kevin, we think he is "one of us".
anyway, coming from an art backgroud myself, i've seen a lot of stuff like this and yes, you become jaded by it. the art world teaches you not to believe in anything (that's been my experience). i'd like to ask you, jen, if you had seen the video online and did not see the student afterwards, as expected...if he had carried out the experiment more fully and left you and the school in the dark about it (perhaps even had relatives phone in with the bad news), would you still think it an interesting experiment or would it become something else?
On 4/24/06, Chuck Olsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Come to think of it - if Kevin's video had a Miller Lite logo at theend, it would be genius. :-)I remember camping out in the backyard in high school with my friends.We brought out the cordless phone (yeah, high tech!) and made some
prank phone calls.When it was my turn, I pretended I was in jail and desparate totalk to my dad. I woke up some poor guy who obviously wasn't mydad. "Oh shit! This is my only phone call I don't know what to do!"
Rather than hang up, this guy was genuinely anguished over mysituation and sincerely tried to help me.Needless to say, I felt pretty shitty after I hung up. I becamewrapped up in my own prank, my own lie. This guy had an
emotional response. I was manipulating his empathy. Andthat's just not fun. It felt wrong because empathy, I think, ispart of our moral core and part our brain chemistry.It's only a matter of time before we see a real drunken death
on YouTube. Everyone who has watched Kevin's video willprobably be immediately skeptical, if not dismissive. Whata strange feeling it will be to have that reaction, only to findout the death is real. Yes - it is fascinating I suppose.
And of course it's not just Kevin, but our world, saturatedwith media violence.One difference between Kevin's "prank" and, say, Ian's finalvideo where he's kidnapped - or most advertisements - is
whether or not you believe what you're seeing is real.You don't see people die in advertisements. Or if you do, youdon't think it's real. Ian's final video was pretty obviously a joke.So degree and context are big factors in our reactions. You know
Kevin and have all this context for his video, not to mention,you know he's not dead. That's quite a different context than we have,and certainly the content of his video is fairly extreme.So in the end, I say all videobloggers must commit mass mock
suicide and agree to never believe anything we see in video.(whuuuh?!?)--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Jen Simmons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Well for one I have to disagree that this is "worse" than the insidious> creeping take-over of the vlogosphere imagination by corporate or> corporate-copy-cat consumption-oriented / advertisy /
> product-placementy / slick-is-better /> we-all-want-to-be-like-the-media-on-tv trends. I find that WAY more> dangerous and problematic.>> I am wondering myself why I find this fascinating. I am surprised by my
> own reaction. Perhaps it's because I know Kevin and there's something> not-typical about his approach to all the violent weird stupid> perverted content that I am way way tired of after teaching student
> filmmaking in Philadelphia for the last three years. He is handling the> same subjects, but somehow there is something else going on too --> perhaps it's just that he's smart and it shows to me, while most of the
> other students make such work in such a mindless knee-jerk> "stupid"/blind way.>> I think my reaction is mostly because of a workshop I've been in with> Kevin taught by Ralph Lemon where we've been exploring danger and risk
> and fear all semester. Doing weird things like setting out to drop 40> lb weights on our feet to see how we can't actually drop it on our> feet, but will naturally jerk the body out of the way it's
> impossible, truly impossible to explain this by text, but it's been a> great investigation of the fear we who are artists confront every time> we try to mak

Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz

[Stephanie Bryant]

Jen, thank you for chiming in NOW and not letting the "fascinating"
discussion go on.

We've had this conversation on this list before, last year when a
vlogger faked having his kids taken away for something in his vlog.
Now, as then, and as with every other fake emotional manipulation in
the blogosphere, I am not amused by it.

There is an assumed "contract" between the blogger and the audience
that what's there is in some way or another real. This is especially
true in video, which is easy to manipulate but seems so real.

When a blog is fiction, it's best to identify it as such. Somewhere,
somehow, even if it's subtle.

More importantly is when a blog blurs the line between fiction and
non-fiction. For instance, when Kevin uses his real name but vlogs his
fake death. That's not right, somehow.

You are fascinated by the reactions because you were not manipulated.
Kevin is your student and you know he's okay.

I have stopped counting the number of times someone I "know" online
(or someone they know and they forward the information) has:
1) Died unexpectedly
2) Contracted a terrible illness
3) Needed financial assistance for an abused pet
4) Been abused
5) Had a pregnancy/baby

All of which, it turned out, never happened.

What seems to happen is this:
1) The person posts some announcement of the terrible thing, either as
themselves or using an assumed identity. Various facts and "proof" are
offered.
2) The audience or community responds with a show of emotional
support, grief, concern, and/or money or cards.
3) One or two people in the community respond with "Um this doesn't add up."
4) The rest of the community attacks the skeptic, often viciously.
[Fortunately this didn't happen here, which is a real testament to the
caliber of the vlogging community.]
5) The truth is revealed, the person never existed, the death was a
hoax, there was no baby, etc. Jen, thank you for making this step
happen VERY quickly-- the longer the suspense goes on, the worse it
gets. Hopefully nobody had the opportunity to lose sleep over this.
6) The rest of the community splits between "You should be ashamed for
manipulating us!" and "you should all be ashamed for attacking the
skeptic!" (even though they did nothing to defend the skeptic,
either).
7) [Optional] The perpetrator tries to defend himself/herself with "It
was a joke," or "It was an experiment." My favorite is "it was an
experiment" because it's a completely unethical method of human
experimentation, and really obviously a cop-out from the backlash
against manipulating people.
8) Next time, all those people will be more skeptical of "OMG, he's
DEAD!" posts. Eventually, we will all be too jaded and skeptical to
continue to see each other as real human beings. Then, we'll fake our
own deaths/illnesses/pregnancies, because it doesn't really matter if
we hurt a couple hundred people-- they weren't real anyway.

Now, obviously these don't all relate to this particular case. But one
might ask: has Kevin never been in an online community before? Does he
not know about this kind of BS and how little it's appreciated or
tolerated on the net? And are we seriously still "exploring" this as
if it were somehow new? This isn't new-- people have been pulling this
crap since the first time two modems resolved their connection.

--Stephanie
[I've decided nobody online actually dies, because every time it
happens, it's a stupid f'ing joke.]

On 4/24/06, Jen Simmons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm wondering whether to chime in now, or wait and watch this
> discussion go for a while more. I find it fascinating.
>
> Kevin is fine and well. Probably tired and overwhelmed since it's the
> end of the semester, but he's otherwise perfectly fine. I just saw him
> this afternoon in class.

--
Stephanie Bryant
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Blogs, vlogs, and audioblogs at:
http://www.mortaine.com/blogs


  




  
  
  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



   Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. 
   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



  

Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz

[Jen Simmons]

On Apr 24, 2006, at 7:30 PM, Michael Sullivan wrote:

> Since I sold my house a few weeks ago, I have been living with my 
> in-laws until new house is ready for us. and they are very 
> catholic and they love and watch every one of those shows!!

Why do you think they love them? What's the appeal?? I get that the 
murder-mystery is a "fun" genre, because it's like a puzzle to solve at 
home. Murder She Wrote was very popular, and had the same kind of plot 
structure -- but nowhere near the level of gratuitous violence. What's 
the appeal of that same classic story + horrible scenes of torture and 
destruction of the human body -- usually the female body??

I think there's something really deep going on about repression and 
religion and this kind of fantasy of the ultimate act of acting out 
"unrepressed".

jen



  




  
  
  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



   Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. 
   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



  

Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz

[Jen Simmons]

On Apr 24, 2006, at 7:34 PM, xicastmedia wrote:

>  Jen, would you mind commenting on what the assignment was and how Mr.
>  Krutz' video tied into that?

The assignment was given back in January -- make a videoblog, and post 
weekly for ten weeks (or more). They could make their vlog about 
anything, but I did require them to come up with a theme / a plan / a 
purpose (because otherwise typically students flounder like crazy). 
Kevin had a plan to do these self-review/ commentaries on films he's 
made in the past for other classes. Then as time's gone on I've told 
them to feel free to deviate from the original plan, now that they know 
what a videoblog is, they've watched a lot of other vloggers, etc. So 
Kevin's video, well it's a video that was posted to his vlog... so it 
definitely fit the assignment.

You can checkout the videoblogs of Kevin's classmates at:
http://teaching.jensimmons.com/videoblogging/spring06
I'm especially proud of the work by:
Andrei Litvinov
Bethany McKenney
Irene Goldstein
Dominque Caron
and others...

If you want to read the assignment and syllabus, those are there too. 
Soon, I'll post videos of the presentations and research papers on 
videoblogging that they've done.

jen






  
  
SPONSORED LINKS
  
  
  

Fireant
  
  
Individual
  
  
Use
  
  

   
  







  
  
  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



   Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. 
   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



  

Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz

[Jen Simmons]

On Apr 24, 2006, at 7:05 PM, Andy Carvin wrote:

>  Meanwhile, given the fact that you're very uncomfortable with the
>  constant violence on commercial tv, how do you react to Kevin's videos
>  that show such violence towards women? (The eye-gouging piece and the
>  Cronenbergesque surgeon episode come to mind.) Are these expressions
>  of violence inherently better because they're independent and
>  noncommercial, or somehow more authentic expressions of art?
>
>  andy

no - it doesn't matter to me that they are "independent" or expressions 
of an "underdog" -- films like these bug the shit out of me. On good 
days, I try to facilitate a constructive conversation with students 
questioning why they want to and do make work like this. On most days, 
I just retreat overwhelmed by the idea that I'm helping people make 
shit like this (they white balanced the camera...). Those specific 
videos of Kevin's he made for another class in a past semester, and the 
critiques he added to them is what he did for the class I'm teaching.

I find the whole situation constantly problematic -- and is one of the 
reasons I am not going to teach in this setting again. Too many 
students, not enough time to talk about these issues, deep deep 
energies circulating that are sexist, racist, homophobic... many of you 
would not believe how horrible and offensive half the work made around 
here is. And it's defended in the name of "not censoring" the students. 
I don't believe in censorship, but I do believe in discussion.

Thinking about all this driving home, I remembered  that one of my 
strategies going into this school year was to make the _audience_ real 
for the students. To get them to post their films online for a audience 
of real people.

Like chuck said:

>  Needless to say, I felt pretty shitty after I hung up. I became
>  wrapped up in my own prank, my own lie. This guy had an
>  emotional response. I was manipulating his empathy. And
>  that's just not fun. It felt wrong because empathy, I think, is
>  part of our moral core and part our brain chemistry.

Once it becomes real that your actions are affecting other people, we 
all tend to make better choices...

I think one reason they make such irresponsible work is that they think 
it doesn't matter. They think no one is listening and that everything 
they do is meaningless. They are looking to have an impact / arouse 
some feelings, any feelings, at any cost -- just to make some kind of 
difference. I mean, as I type this my neighbors in the apartment below 
me are coughing like mad, collectively choking on the pot they are 
smoking. There's a desperation to feel, to break out of the fog they 
are in, and somehow blood and guts and gore and the subsequent 
adrenaline reaction is appealing. But I want them to see the 
consequences of their choices -- and so one of my strategies was to not 
just let them make work for each other, but to get it out to a real 
live audience where people outside of their world can react. Praise 
work that is meaningful and touching. Damn or question work that is 
irresponsible. So in many ways that's exactly what is happening now. So 
tell Kevin what you think, question his choices, make him think about 
them. And maybe he'll make the same choices again, but at least he'll 
have thought about: what kind of work does he want to make? why? what 
kind of impact or effect does he want to have?? etc... What I have seen 
this semester a higher percentage of students making work that they do 
find meaningful, and a lot of students who are realizing they don't 
know what they have to say as filmmakers.

There is a real loss of meaning and vision. And I don't just see that 
in my students, I see it in the vlogosphere as well -- only there 
people are reaching out to the copy-cat model to fill the void. Copy 
MTV, copy tech tv, copy primetime tv show models, copy mass media 
economic models. It's the same lack of vision for something


jen


jenSimmons
http://www.jensimmons.com






  
  
SPONSORED LINKS
  
  
  

Fireant
  
  
Individual
  
  
Use
  
  

   
  







  
  
  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



   Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. 
   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



  

Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz

[Michael Sullivan]

first to address this comment about the amount of glorified death on NBC etc :)
 
Why aren't the christians outraged about that?? 
Since I sold my house a few weeks ago, I have been living with my in-laws until new house is ready for us. and they are very catholic and they love and watch every one of those shows!!
 
Regarding this Fake Death video, The first 2 times I watched it I was really disturbed and sad.
I did some searching and watched the rest of the vlog, and felt it was not real.  But did not want to just assume that because i would feel horrible if I were wrong.  I even hesitated to ask the question here.   So I emailed Jen because one of the google results turned up her class site where he was listed as a student.  She told me he was alive etc so then I was like ok fine whatever.  Thats good.  One less dead kid and grieving family.  Fine.

 
But I truly felt horrible at first and it brought up some personal memories and future fears now that I'm a dad et all.  And it did screw up my day.  I was less productive after seeing it (not like I was being very productive anyway).  

 
Bottom line for me is... I dont dig it.  I feel like shitty about the whole thing.  That I actually gave a shit about someone I didnt even know wasted emotions and wasted time.  Art making aside fuck that.

 
sull
 
On 4/24/06, Jen Simmons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Well for one I have to disagree that this is "worse" than the insidiouscreeping take-over of the vlogosphere imagination by corporate or
corporate-copy-cat consumption-oriented / advertisy /product-placementy / slick-is-better /we-all-want-to-be-like-the-media-on-tv trends. I find that WAY moredangerous and problematic.I am wondering myself why I find this fascinating. I am surprised by my
own reaction. Perhaps it's because I know Kevin and there's somethingnot-typical about his approach to all the violent weird stupidperverted content that I am way way tired of after teaching studentfilmmaking in Philadelphia for the last three years. He is handling the
same subjects, but somehow there is something else going on too --perhaps it's just that he's smart and it shows to me, while most of theother students make such work in such a mindless knee-jerk"stupid"/blind way.
I think my reaction is mostly because of a workshop I've been in withKevin taught by Ralph Lemon where we've been exploring danger and riskand fear all semester. Doing weird things like setting out to drop 40
lb weights on our feet to see how we can't actually drop it on ourfeet, but will naturally jerk the body out of the way it'simpossible, truly impossible to explain this by text, but it's been agreat investigation of the fear we who are artists confront every time
we try to make art. Artists live on the edge of real danger all thetime. Somehow I can't separate this video Kevin made with that processof exploration, and in the context of that very specific investigation,
this is hilarious.But... yeah... I think in any other context I too would be deeplydisturbed and offended.I think it's interesting to me because I'm trying to figure out whatthe difference is in my self. And I am also asking in a deep deep way:
what is happening here. What social rules are Kevin violating? How willthe reaction unfold? Will there be a huge outcry? Or will this all blowover fairly quickly? Will people react? Or just take this in as one
more thing...I see your point that it may be numbing us to real pain. I find the 27Law and Order and copycat shows completely irresponsible for exactlythat reason. And find it completely ridiculous and amazing that NBC has
gotten both super-christian in the last year  and super-violent (comeon -- an AMY GRANT reality tv show??? and more than one "miracle"reality tv show... and more murder "investigations" than I've ever
seen.) I'll be just change channels zipping past NBC and get assaultedby a scene of a graphic rape and murder. It seems like an extremelyperverted rape-by-proxy thing, what, letting the viewers fantasizeabout what it would be like to rape and murder someone?? It' very
offensive to me. And I see no one talking about it. Why aren't thechristians outraged about that?? Instead they are freaking out over agay kiss or people talking about evolution... it's crazy crazy crazy.
I also know that I am numb to the violence in my student's work becauseit's so horrible here at Temple. The most unbelievably violent filmsget made by the undergraduates here. And no one talks about it. Afterfour years I think my perspective is totally warped. And having people
on the outside say -- "uh, no, this is not acceptable" is a welcomebreath of fresh air.So people, please everyone say what you think. I want to hear whatpeople really think and get a sense of where different people are on
these issues -- some how that is fascinating to me. What do peoplethink is the line that we shouldn't cross when it comes to violence? IsKevin's film too much because it is violent? Or 

Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz

[David Meade]

I understand what you mean Jen ... Part of me finds the reaction we all had/have fascinating too.  The full range of the social impact of vlogging is still kinda new after all.However, like Chuck, another part of me is irritated by the whole thing (and the more I think about it the more so I become).  I guess my feeling is that if this was meant to be a part of some artistic experiment in video/vlogging ... a simple frame at the end stating "This was Fiction: Kevin is alive and well." wouldn't have limited his ability to explore this fiction.  
If it was however an experiment on how such a video would effect me the viewer ... that doesn't seem fair ... I didn't sign up to be in any experiment today (and the content was not pleasant).For the sake of discussion ... I'm not a regular viewer of the site and in my cursory review of other works I didn't see any fiction (characters/plots), and experiments seemed clearly labeled as such ... so I left the site feeling all the things we can expect people feel when they believe they've just re-lived a very real and tragic moment with someone when they found their friend dead.  It wasn't a feel good moment.
I'm not willing to say it crossed any line of acceptable/not-acceptable but it definitely was ... harsh.  I for one would have definitely (if even at the end) put up a "No Kevins were actually hurt in the making of this fictional episode" notice.  It seems only a simple kindness to the viewer to do so.  I don't see how relieving the very upsetting emotions this sort of scene inspires would have diminished the work, or its ability to inspire those emotions in the first place.
I don't know if it was meant as a mean spirited hoax or just simple case of a class project distributed to an audience that wouldn't recognize it as such ... assuming it was the latter, I think this is a good example of "You never know who is watching".  It's easy to forget that our work can potentially reach people who might not be 'in the know' as to how the site works and the style of the producer.  I know I usually operate on the assumption the same group of people are going to be watching tomorrow as there was yesterday; but still I try to limit any 'inside jokes' for just this reason.
If it WAS meant as a trick on the viewer, then yeah I think it probably was "too much" ... not because it was lie, but because it was a lie designed (seemingly only) to wound the viewer.  Films and movies may wound their viewers, but they do it in a larger context of entertainment or education.  Fake scenes of such disturbing content without that larger context ... seems just mean. :-P  
In any event, I'm very glad Kevin is ok ... tell him to avoid parties and toilets. ;-)On 4/24/06, Jen Simmons <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:Well for one I have to disagree that this is "worse" than the insidious
creeping take-over of the vlogosphere imagination by corporate orcorporate-copy-cat consumption-oriented / advertisy /product-placementy / slick-is-better /we-all-want-to-be-like-the-media-on-tv trends. I find that WAY more
dangerous and problematic.I am wondering myself why I find this fascinating. I am surprised by myown reaction. Perhaps it's because I know Kevin and there's somethingnot-typical about his approach to all the violent weird stupid
perverted content that I am way way tired of after teaching studentfilmmaking in Philadelphia for the last three years. He is handling thesame subjects, but somehow there is something else going on too --perhaps it's just that he's smart and it shows to me, while most of the
other students make such work in such a mindless knee-jerk"stupid"/blind way.I think my reaction is mostly because of a workshop I've been in withKevin taught by Ralph Lemon where we've been exploring danger and risk
and fear all semester. Doing weird things like setting out to drop 40lb weights on our feet to see how we can't actually drop it on ourfeet, but will naturally jerk the body out of the way it'simpossible, truly impossible to explain this by text, but it's been a
great investigation of the fear we who are artists confront every timewe try to make art. Artists live on the edge of real danger all thetime. Somehow I can't separate this video Kevin made with that process
of exploration, and in the context of that very specific investigation,this is hilarious.But... yeah... I think in any other context I too would be deeplydisturbed and offended.I think it's interesting to me because I'm trying to figure out what
the difference is in my self. And I am also asking in a deep deep way:what is happening here. What social rules are Kevin violating? How willthe reaction unfold? Will there be a huge outcry? Or will this all blow
over fairly quickly? Will people react? Or just take this in as onemore thing...I see your point that it may be numbing us to real pain. I find the 27Law and Order and copycat shows completely irresponsible for exactly
that reason. And find it completely ridiculous and amaz

Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz

[Jen Simmons]

Well for one I have to disagree that this is "worse" than the insidious 
creeping take-over of the vlogosphere imagination by corporate or 
corporate-copy-cat consumption-oriented / advertisy / 
product-placementy / slick-is-better / 
we-all-want-to-be-like-the-media-on-tv trends. I find that WAY more 
dangerous and problematic.

I am wondering myself why I find this fascinating. I am surprised by my 
own reaction. Perhaps it's because I know Kevin and there's something 
not-typical about his approach to all the violent weird stupid 
perverted content that I am way way tired of after teaching student 
filmmaking in Philadelphia for the last three years. He is handling the 
same subjects, but somehow there is something else going on too -- 
perhaps it's just that he's smart and it shows to me, while most of the 
other students make such work in such a mindless knee-jerk 
"stupid"/blind way.

I think my reaction is mostly because of a workshop I've been in with 
Kevin taught by Ralph Lemon where we've been exploring danger and risk 
and fear all semester. Doing weird things like setting out to drop 40 
lb weights on our feet to see how we can't actually drop it on our 
feet, but will naturally jerk the body out of the way it's 
impossible, truly impossible to explain this by text, but it's been a 
great investigation of the fear we who are artists confront every time 
we try to make art. Artists live on the edge of real danger all the 
time. Somehow I can't separate this video Kevin made with that process 
of exploration, and in the context of that very specific investigation, 
this is hilarious.

But... yeah... I think in any other context I too would be deeply 
disturbed and offended.
I think it's interesting to me because I'm trying to figure out what 
the difference is in my self. And I am also asking in a deep deep way: 
what is happening here. What social rules are Kevin violating? How will 
the reaction unfold? Will there be a huge outcry? Or will this all blow 
over fairly quickly? Will people react? Or just take this in as one 
more thing...

I see your point that it may be numbing us to real pain. I find the 27 
Law and Order and copycat shows completely irresponsible for exactly 
that reason. And find it completely ridiculous and amazing that NBC has 
gotten both super-christian in the last year  and super-violent (come 
on -- an AMY GRANT reality tv show??? and more than one "miracle" 
reality tv show... and more murder "investigations" than I've ever 
seen.) I'll be just change channels zipping past NBC and get assaulted 
by a scene of a graphic rape and murder. It seems like an extremely 
perverted rape-by-proxy thing, what, letting the viewers fantasize 
about what it would be like to rape and murder someone?? It' very 
offensive to me. And I see no one talking about it. Why aren't the 
christians outraged about that?? Instead they are freaking out over a 
gay kiss or people talking about evolution... it's crazy crazy crazy.

I also know that I am numb to the violence in my student's work because 
it's so horrible here at Temple. The most unbelievably violent films 
get made by the undergraduates here. And no one talks about it. After 
four years I think my perspective is totally warped. And having people 
on the outside say -- "uh, no, this is not acceptable" is a welcome 
breath of fresh air.

So people, please everyone say what you think. I want to hear what 
people really think and get a sense of where different people are on 
these issues -- some how that is fascinating to me. What do people 
think is the line that we shouldn't cross when it comes to violence? Is 
Kevin's film too much because it is violent? Or because it is lying? 
Or...

jen



jenSimmons
http://www.jensimmons.com
On Apr 24, 2006, at 6:07 PM, Chuck Olsen wrote:

>
>  You find it fascinating - why? I find it tiresome and irresponsible.
>  God, I must be getting old. I used to appreciate a good arty blog 
> prank.
>
>  The problem is this: Rather than using vlogs to enrich the human
>  experience, and expand our exposure to the range of human experiences,
>  pranks like this numb us to it. It numbs us to real death and real
>  pain, and cheapens it.
>
>  This sort of prank is worse for the vlogosphere than any 
> advertisement.
>
>  --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Jen Simmons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  >
>  > I'm wondering whether to chime in now, or wait and watch this
>  > discussion go for a while more. I find it fascinating.



  




  
  
  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



   Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. 
   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



  

Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz

[Jen Simmons]

I'm wondering whether to chime in now, or wait and watch this discussion go for a while more. I find it fascinating. 

Kevin is fine and well. Probably tired and overwhelmed since it's the end of the semester, but he's otherwise perfectly fine. I just saw him this afternoon in class. 

I don't know if he meant the video as a "hoax" -- or a mean trick. I'd expect it was more of an experiment to see what would happen. It's definitely in the "vlog dangerously" theme that Stephanie started for videoblogging week. Perhaps this is over the edge for many of you?? Did Kevin stretch things too far? And cross some line into something unacceptable??

He's got two more posts due for class (one today that's late and one next Monday) so I'm not sure what he has planned... perhaps it would have made more sense for this to be his last post (if in fact he's planning to abandon the vlog after the semester is over).

Mostly I'm interested in hearing more discussion about whether or not it was "okay" for him to post such a video. What buttons did he push? If you are offended or upset or disturbed or frightened or disgusted... then why? What is it exactly that caused your reaction? If you aren't any of those things, but have other strong feelings, what is your reaction? What do you think that's about??

And, well, thanks for all the sympathies and concern. Kevin's not on this email list, but I've forwarded him (and several other people) the link to the web-based archive, so hopefully he will chime in. You can also post comments on his blog!

jen



jenSimmons
http://www.jensimmons.com
On Apr 24, 2006, at 4:22 PM, Michael Sullivan wrote:

still waiting for Jen Simmons to chime in, as she apparently taught him how to vlog.


On 4/24/06, Andy Carvin <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com , Josh Wolf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> This is interesting, given that there is a video that revolves
around a
> funeral only weeks before this video, I am not disinclined to think
> that this is a joke. At the same time, it is possible that the video 
is
> real, and assuming that it may, perhaps, be a joke is probably
> insensitive to some extent.
>
> Josh

I agree that simply assuming it's a hoax is perhaps a bit insensitive
or callous, but wondering whether it's a hoax is understandable. There 
have been countless strange stunts on the Internet, and given Kevin's
particular body of work, it almost has to cross your mind. Whether
it's a hoax or not, it's probably just a matter of time before it
catalyzes a media debate about the limits of Web 2.0 in relation to
appropriateness, responsibility, news, art, etc...

andy






Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/






-- 
Sull 
http://vlogdir.com 
http://SpreadTheMedia.org 

SPONSORED LINKS 
Fireant 
Individual 
Use 

YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS 

▪ 	 Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web.
  
▪ 	 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
▪ 	 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 

Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz

[Michael Sullivan]

still waiting for Jen Simmons to chime in, as she apparently taught him how to vlog.On 4/24/06, Andy Carvin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com
, Josh Wolf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:>> This is interesting, given that there is a video that revolvesaround a> funeral only weeks before this video, I am not disinclined to think> that this is a joke. At the same time, it is possible that the video
is> real, and assuming that it may, perhaps, be a joke is probably> insensitive to some extent.>> JoshI agree that simply assuming it's a hoax is perhaps a bit insensitiveor callous, but wondering whether it's a hoax is understandable. There
have been countless strange stunts on the Internet, and given Kevin'sparticular body of work, it almost has to cross your mind. Whetherit's a hoax or not, it's probably just a matter of time before itcatalyzes a media debate about the limits of Web 
2.0 in relation toappropriateness, responsibility, news, art, etc...andyYahoo! Groups Links<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/-- Sull
http://vlogdir.com http://SpreadTheMedia.org





  
  
SPONSORED LINKS
  
  
  

Fireant
  
  
Individual
  
  
Use
  
  

   
  







  
  
  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



   Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. 
   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



  

Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz

[Stephanie Bryant]

On 4/24/06, Josh Leo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I do however wonder how the friend got all the login information for blip,
> blogger etc.

Open blogger and related sites. Request new password to be emailed.
Open friend's computer and launch email client. Get passwords.

> I know that i have autologin on my computer so maybe that is a
> possibility. But I don't know... the distance in time since the last video
> also makes me wonder. I woudl think that it would take more time for a close
> friend to actually sift through this stuff and then manage to post it.

Well, I suppose that depends on how you grieve and whether or not you
have a video production class project due the week after the funeral.

> and why wouldn't there be more footage before the actual documented "event"
> the current footage is too ambiguous. if the footage is real then there
> would be more before it, since the video starts half way through a video
> being made.

It looks like this was from a party, Josh. It would be heartily
tasteless to show a lot of drinking and partying  and foolishness, and
possibly a lot of really morbid humor, and then show a dead guy. Not
that it's particularly tasteful as it is, but... yeah. Also, what if
Kevin made comments that would lead you to believe he committed
suicide, just prior to this?  Perhaps the family did not want that
getting out.

> I could go on..but ill leave it there for now

It's good to be skeptical. I take all major dramatic events on the
Internet with a grain of salt.

--Stephanie

--
Stephanie Bryant
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Blogs, vlogs, and audioblogs at:
http://www.mortaine.com/blogs


  




  
  
  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



   Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. 
   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



  

Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz

[Josh Leo]

if it is a hoax, you can see that they did a nice job not using the embed this video thing on this particular video. I do however wonder how the friend got all the login information for blip, blogger etc. I know that i have autologin on my computer so maybe that is a possibility. But I don't know... the distance in time since the last video also makes me wonder. I woudl think that it would take more time for a close friend to actually sift through this stuff and then manage to post it. 
deathfew days later funeralmourningvlogging? just seems like there would be more time before the vlogging stageand why wouldn't there be more footage before the actual documented "event" the current footage is too ambiguous. if the footage is real then there would be more before it, since the video starts half way through a video being made. 
I could go on..but ill leave it there for nowOn 4/24/06, Josh Wolf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:This is interesting, given that there is a video that revolves around a
funeral only weeks before this video, I am not disinclined to thinkthat this is a joke. At the same time, it is possible that the video isreal, and assuming that it may, perhaps, be a joke is probablyinsensitive to some extent.
JoshOn Apr 24, 2006, at 12:17 PM, Andy Carvin wrote:> Yeah, me too. And his videos are macabre to say the least. Two of the> ones I've seen so far involve mutilating women. One features a
> demented plastic surgeon ruining the face of a model, whose> disfigurement soon becomes a fashion craze. In the other, a man> attacks a woman at a bar, beats her with a belt, then gouges out her
> eye with a pocket knife.>> Meanwhile, on the death video, there's a montage of photos from his> childhood and a note saying his family approved the release of the> video. It certainly looks real. But there's no mention of him anywhere
> when you do a search on google news or technorati; wouldn't the> accidental death of a young man merit a mention somewhere?>> I'm debating whether to blog about this or not. If it's real, it's a
> chilling message, someone who actually lived and died by the vlog. And> if it's a hoax, well, I guess that's newsworthy as well>> ac>> --- In 
videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Sullivan"> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: i noticed On 4/24/06, duncan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:>>>
>>> this is the note on the sidebar...>> "Video is a place where all the horror and atrocities you ever> dreamed of>>> can be accomplished.">>>
>> On 4/24/06, Michael Sullivan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  Noticed that Jen simmons had him as a student, so I asked her> if she had any information to provide about this video.  Is it real
> or an experiment?>>> -->>> http://29fragiledays.blogspot.com
>>  SPONSORED LINKS Fireant t=ms&k=Fireant&w1=Fireant&w2=Individual&w3=Use&c=3&s=38&.sig=hfs_5_0lBh
> h4r_ghxepr0w> Individual t=ms&k=Individual&w1=Fireant&w2=Individual&w3=Use&c=3&s=38&.sig=GUaJZU-
> r1JDlLAUOsMLl8g> Use t=ms&k=Use&w1=Fireant&w2=Individual&w3=Use&c=3&s=38&.sig=LXDZ5r7JrGSXui
> rwFdbEXw  -->>> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS>-  Visit your group> "videoblogging<
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging>">>>on the web.>  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [EMAIL PROTECTED]>>>  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service>>  -->
>> -->> Sull>> http://vlogdir.com>> http://SpreadTheMedia.org>>
> Yahoo! Groups Links>>>"Don't hate the media, become the media."- Jello Biafra
Yahoo! Groups Links<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/-- Josh Leowww.JoshLeo.com


  




  
  
  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



   Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. 
   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



  

Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz

[Josh Wolf]

This is interesting, given that there is a video that revolves around a  
funeral only weeks before this video, I am not disinclined to think  
that this is a joke. At the same time, it is possible that the video is  
real, and assuming that it may, perhaps, be a joke is probably  
insensitive to some extent.

Josh


On Apr 24, 2006, at 12:17 PM, Andy Carvin wrote:

> Yeah, me too. And his videos are macabre to say the least. Two of the
> ones I've seen so far involve mutilating women. One features a
> demented plastic surgeon ruining the face of a model, whose
> disfigurement soon becomes a fashion craze. In the other, a man
> attacks a woman at a bar, beats her with a belt, then gouges out her
> eye with a pocket knife.
>
> Meanwhile, on the death video, there's a montage of photos from his
> childhood and a note saying his family approved the release of the
> video. It certainly looks real. But there's no mention of him anywhere
> when you do a search on google news or technorati; wouldn't the
> accidental death of a young man merit a mention somewhere?
>
> I'm debating whether to blog about this or not. If it's real, it's a
> chilling message, someone who actually lived and died by the vlog. And
> if it's a hoax, well, I guess that's newsworthy as well
>
> ac
>
> --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Sullivan"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> i noticed
>>
>> On 4/24/06, duncan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>
>>> this is the note on the sidebar...
>>>
>>> "Video is a place where all the horror and atrocities you ever
> dreamed of
>>> can be accomplished."
>>>
>>>
>>> On 4/24/06, Michael Sullivan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

  Noticed that Jen simmons had him as a student, so I asked her
> if she
 had any information to provide about this video.  Is it real
> or an
 experiment?



>>> --
>>> http://29fragiledays.blogspot.com
>>>
>>>  SPONSORED LINKS
>>>
> Fireant t=ms&k=Fireant&w1=Fireant&w2=Individual&w3=Use&c=3&s=38&.sig=hfs_5_0lBh 
> h4r_ghxepr0w>
>>>
> Individual t=ms&k=Individual&w1=Fireant&w2=Individual&w3=Use&c=3&s=38&.sig=GUaJZU- 
> r1JDlLAUOsMLl8g>
>>>
> Use t=ms&k=Use&w1=Fireant&w2=Individual&w3=Use&c=3&s=38&.sig=LXDZ5r7JrGSXui 
> rwFdbEXw>
>>>  --
>>> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>>>
>>>
>>>    -  Visit your group
> "videoblogging"
>>>    on the web.
>>>
>>>
>>>  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>>>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>
>>>  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service
>>> .
>>>  --
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sull
>> http://vlogdir.com
>> http://SpreadTheMedia.org
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


"Don't hate the media, become the media."- Jello Biafra






  
  
SPONSORED LINKS
  
  
  

Fireant
  
  
Individual
  
  
Use
  
  

   
  







  
  
  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



   Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. 
   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



  

Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz

[Michael Sullivan]

i noticedOn 4/24/06, duncan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



this is the note on the sidebar...  "Video is a place where all the horror and atrocities you ever dreamed of can be accomplished."
On 4/24/06, 
Michael Sullivan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:




Noticed that Jen simmons had him as a student, so I asked her if she had any information to provide about this video.  Is it real or an experiment?  
-- http://29fragiledays.blogspot.com






  
  
SPONSORED LINKS
  
  
  


Fireant
  
  

Individual
  
  

Use
  
  

   
  







  
  
  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



   Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web.
 
   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
.



  








-- Sullhttp://vlogdir.com http://SpreadTheMedia.org


  




  
  
  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



   Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. 
   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



  

Re: [videoblogging] Re: The Last Hours - Death of a Videoblogger Kevin Krutz

[duncan]

this is the note on the sidebar...  "Video is a place where all the horror and atrocities you ever dreamed of can be accomplished."On 4/24/06, 
Michael Sullivan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



Noticed that Jen simmons had him as a student, so I asked her if she had any information to provide about this video.  Is it real or an experiment?  
-- http://29fragiledays.blogspot.com





  
  
SPONSORED LINKS
  
  
  

Fireant
  
  
Individual
  
  
Use
  
  

   
  







  
  
  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



   Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. 
   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.