Re: [web2py] Re: Say hello to pyStack.com
- Original Message - From: Julio Schwarzbeck Sent: 12/19/10 08:26 PM To: web2py-users Subject: [web2py] Re: Say hello to pyStack.com in any case, please continue testing if you can, I will release some common usernames that you can use (each one with its own access level set) so you can see how much can the system be controlled. Thanks again. Sounds good. I was just about to 'complain' about missing openID authentication. :) Looking good, though. It's a great first step. -- Branko Vukelic branko.vuke...@gmx.com http://www.brankovukelic.com/ http://flickr.com/photos/foxbunny
Re: [web2py] Powertable remarks
- Original Message - From: rochacbruno Sent: 12/17/10 01:38 PM To: web2py@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [web2py] Powertable remarks WIth jqgrid even without paging , i had successfully loaded 40k records within 6 - 8 secs . That is because jqgrid loads limited amount of data per request, i am doing this with datatables. And I am working to incorporaye it to the plugin. Well, qooxdoo grid loads up 10k records like nothing, so it must be possible. Once those records are loaded, you can scroll down and see for yourself. http://demo.qooxdoo.org/current/demobrowser/#table~Table_Remote_Model.html -- Branko Vukelic branko.vuke...@gmx.com http://www.brankovukelic.com/ http://flickr.com/photos/foxbunny
Re: [web2py] Powertable remarks
- Original Message - From: Bruno Rocha Sent: 12/17/10 03:08 PM To: web2py@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [web2py] Powertable remarks Nice library! I didn't know http://demo.qooxdoo.org/ Well, check out their tag line on the homepage http://www.qooxdoo.org/. It's not a lie, definitely. It lives up to expectations. The way qooxdoo works is it has its own model layer wich handles data retrieval and conversion. Then you can add this model to any widget, and the widget consumes the data. Basically, this means that the table data can be loaded from any kind of source. You can ping your server, or you can use a JSONP service, or XML, whatever you want. Tehcnically, you could write a model that parses HTML pages and extracts data from them. There's no need to adapt your server to qooxdoo thanks to this. -- Branko Vukelic branko.vuke...@gmx.com http://www.brankovukelic.com/ http://flickr.com/photos/foxbunny
Re: [web2py] Re: delicious is closing
Hehe, yeah. Should've seen it coming. :D - Original Message - From: Tomeu Sent: 12/17/10 03:49 PM To: web2py-users Subject: [web2py] Re: delicious is closing Ohh zootool is down !! in his page: We are offline The Delicious rumors hit us pretty hard. We are currently working on the import system and the whole infrastructure to be able to handle that better. Sorry for the downtime and thanks for your patience! On 17 dic, 09:19, LightDot light...@gmail.com wrote: SEO experts and SEO experts who use Delicious for ranking optimization will have a lot of work on their hands these days :) Yahooo should have sold the service rather than close it, IMHO. -- Branko Vukelic branko.vuke...@gmx.com http://www.brankovukelic.com/ http://flickr.com/photos/foxbunny
Re: [web2py] Re: delicious is closing
At least something good happened to zootools. I actually like it a lot. Thanks, Bruno. - Original Message - From: Bruno Rocha Sent: 12/17/10 04:48 PM To: web2py@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [web2py] Re: delicious is closing Hehe, I Imagine that will happen. they are running now to upgrade their Vm's Nice! hope this come back soon. 2010/12/17 Branko Vukelic branko.vuke...@gmx.com Hehe, yeah. Should've seen it coming. :D - Original Message - From: Tomeu Sent: 12/17/10 03:49 PM To: web2py-users Subject: [web2py] Re: delicious is closing Ohh zootool is down !! in his page: We are offline The Delicious rumors hit us pretty hard. We are currently working on the import system and the whole infrastructure to be able to handle that better. Sorry for the downtime and thanks for your patience! On 17 dic, 09:19, LightDot light...@gmail.com wrote: SEO experts and SEO experts who use Delicious for ranking optimization will have a lot of work on their hands these days :) Yahooo should have sold the service rather than close it, IMHO. -- Branko Vukelic branko.vuke...@gmx.com http://www.brankovukelic.com/ http://flickr.com/photos/foxbunny -- Bruno Rocha http://about.me/rochacbruno/bio -- Branko Vukelic branko.vuke...@gmx.com http://www.brankovukelic.com/ http://flickr.com/photos/foxbunny
Re: [web2py] Re: it case you missed it...
- Original Message - From: mdipierro Sent: 12/17/10 09:39 PM To: web2py-users Subject: [web2py] Re: it case you missed it... I think we can all agree on two issues: 1) the current license (GPL + exception) is OK for almost everybody 2) the current license is unclear and it is confused with pure GPL. That is limiting the adoption of web2py. This needs to be addressed, How do people feel about the following license: GPL3 + Apache GPL3 and Apache are compatible (GPL2 and Apache are not). Apache is very similar to BSD but forces users who distribute modified versions to spell in detail the changes they make. That should be sufficient to discourage forks but not to discourage people to use it in commercial products. You were one step in front of me. :) +1 -- Branko Vukelic branko.vuke...@gmx.com http://www.brankovukelic.com/ http://flickr.com/photos/foxbunny
Re: [web2py] Re: Powertable remarks
In other words, there's no silver bullet. ;) - Original Message - From: Bruno Rocha Sent: 12/18/10 02:43 AM To: web2py@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [web2py] Re: Powertable remarks I liked this treegrid library, but I think it is visually poluted, too much complicated, I always need a simple dynamic html tables (just like SQLTABLE) but including pagination, just one level of nested detail, edit in-line and search. In adition with DAL virtual fields for live calculations/transformations. Take web2py appadmin as example, imagine a system with more than 500 users registered (natalanimal.com.br has 1001+ users registered, and ~40 donations by day). it is not easy to manage this data only with default appadmin tables, and I found so complicated to customize jqGrid for doing that. else, jQGrid, Ext js, YUI grid and others are so complicated for doing simple things like that. I also have a 'Simple Agile Tool' which I use to manage scrum projects, I never loads more than 100 records in a single table ( because dashboards are filtered per sprint/project/goal. In this case, if an agile project has more than 100 records per sprint this is not being agile. Was because of this, that I started developing the powerTable plugin to wrap datatables library together with web2py features. web2py and datatables is a perfect match. web2py has the best data access layer for working with this library. I am working on dict, Json, XMl parser to work server side, I am sure it will be a good option for grids in web2py applications. somebody knows who created jQgrid and webgrid plugin? -- Bruno Rocha http://about.me/rochacbruno/bio -- Branko Vukelic branko.vuke...@gmx.com http://www.brankovukelic.com/ http://flickr.com/photos/foxbunny
Re: [web2py] Vote in web2py for PyCon 2011 Tutorials
voted - Original Message - From: appydev Sent: 12/16/10 03:27 PM To: web2py@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [web2py] Vote in web2py for PyCon 2011 Tutorials One more vote for web2py! 2010/12/15 Bruno Rocha rochacbr...@gmail.com PyCon is made up of a number of different parts, each with its own goals. For the talks presented during the conference portion of PyCon, we go for both breadth and quality. There are enough different sessions and different tracks that each person can customize their PyCon experience according to their interests. For tutorials, the goal is slightly different. We want to present tutorials that help developers deal effectively with their most common day-to-day challenges. Accordingly, the following topics have been generally proposed for tutorials at PyCon 2011. Which of these topics would be the most useful for you? If tutorials were held on all these topics, which ones would you or your organization pay to attend? https://spreadsheets0.google.com/viewform?formkey=dF9wdHV0SHhMLWVKV1MzX0hpYW9XZnc6MQ#gid=0 -- Bruno Rocha http://about.me/rochacbruno/bio -- Branko Vukelic branko.vuke...@gmx.com http://www.brankovukelic.com/ http://flickr.com/photos/foxbunny
Re: [web2py] Re: it case you missed it...
- Original Message - From: Anthony Sent: 12/16/10 05:02 PM To: web2py-users Subject: [web2py] Re: it case you missed it... I don't _think_ I'm missing the main point, as I agree with what you state above. Then why are we discussing the license? If you understand that GPL is there to protect the freeness of the software, and that's why web2py uses it, then this discussion is pointless. -- Branko Vukelic branko.vuke...@gmx.com http://www.brankovukelic.com/ http://flickr.com/photos/foxbunny
Re: [web2py] Re: it case you missed it...
- Original Message - From: =?ANSI_X3.4-1968?Q?Jos=3F_L=2E?= Sent: 12/16/10 07:23 PM To: web2py@googlegroups.com Subject: [web2py] Re: it case you missed it... Also, is there any reason to stay in gpl v2 instead of moving to v3? I think someone already pointed out that GPLv3 could be an improvement over GPLv2. It closed many of the loopholes, and also became more compatible with other licenses such as MIT and BSD 3-clause. That's, I think, important since some libs do have code from those two licenses. -- Branko Vukelic branko.vuke...@gmx.com http://www.brankovukelic.com/ http://flickr.com/photos/foxbunny
Re: [web2py] Re: it case you missed it...
- Original Message - From: mdipierro Sent: 12/16/10 07:56 PM To: web2py-users Subject: [web2py] Re: it case you missed it... If we were to move from GPL2 to GPL3 people would not be allowed to modify web2py running on their servers without making available the source code of their changes. I do not see any reason for requiring this. What's AGPL for then? Wasn't _AGPL_ supposed to prevent that? Anyway, I think GPLv3 makes i possible to use code licensed under licenses like MIT and BSD in a GPLv3 project, which is otherwise a bit incompatible. Or did I miss something? -- Branko Vukelic branko.vuke...@gmx.com http://www.brankovukelic.com/ http://flickr.com/photos/foxbunny
Re: [web2py] Re: it case you missed it...
Here's an excerpt from Apache License 2.0: ``Derivative Works shall mean any work, whether in Source or Object form, that is based on (or derived from) the Work and for which the editorial revisions, annotations, elaborations, or other modifications represent, as a whole, an original work of authorship. For the purposes of this License, Derivative Works shall not include works that remain separable from, or merely link (or bind by name) to the interfaces of, the Work and Derivative Works thereof.`` This sounds like a hint for the exception we needed (unless you are serious about moving to BSD or MIT). Full text can be found here: http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0 so you can see the context. Reading the full text of the Apache license, I think dual-licensing web2py under GPLv2 and Apache License 2.0 would solve all of the problems except 1: reuse of web2py components and libraries for building closed-source software. For me, personally, that would not be fair game. If you are taking apart web2py and building something useful, you should share. - Original Message - From: mdipierro Sent: 12/16/10 11:33 PM To: web2py-users Subject: [web2py] Re: it case you missed it... GPL2 creates the loophole. The AGPL closes the loophole. The GPL3 was supposed to incorporate language from AGPL and close the loophole but did not. It is not clear to me whether GPL3 closes the loophole or not. If it does not (like GPL2 does not). I have no objection to move to GPL3. Yet that does not help in clarifying the web2py license. As a hypothetical question. Who here would oppose to moving to BSD or MIT or other more permissive license? Massimo On Dec 16, 2:54 pm, Branko Vukelic branko.vuke...@gmx.com wrote: - Original Message - From: mdipierro Sent: 12/16/10 07:56 PM To: web2py-users Subject: [web2py] Re: it case you missed it... If we were to move from GPL2 to GPL3 people would not be allowed to modify web2py running on their servers without making available the source code of their changes. I do not see any reason for requiring this. What's AGPL for then? Wasn't _AGPL_ supposed to prevent that? Anyway, I think GPLv3 makes i possible to use code licensed under licenses like MIT and BSD in a GPLv3 project, which is otherwise a bit incompatible. Or did I miss something? -- Branko Vukelic branko.vuke...@gmx.com http://www.brankovukelic.com/http://flickr.com/photos/foxbunny -- Branko Vukelic branko.vuke...@gmx.com http://www.brankovukelic.com/ http://flickr.com/photos/foxbunny
Re: [web2py] delicious is closing
Damn! I have a shitload of bookmarks there... :( Anyway, yeah, go for it! You can advertise as The next Delicioustm - Original Message - From: Albert Abril Sent: 12/17/10 12:22 AM To: web2py@googlegroups.com Subject: [web2py] delicious is closing I'm using delicious from long time ago. Today I read that yahoo will close delicious soon. It's time to migrate to my own bookmark app, question is.. there's a bookmark application wrote in web2py, should I start one? :D Kind regards! -- Albert Abril, @desmondo http://bressol.org -- Branko Vukelic branko.vuke...@gmx.com http://www.brankovukelic.com/ http://flickr.com/photos/foxbunny
Re: [web2py] delicious is closing
Does it do tagging? I really liked the way delicious bmarks can be tagged and all... - Original Message - From: Bruno Rocha Sent: 12/17/10 12:43 AM To: web2py@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [web2py] delicious is closing I always prefer to use zootool for bookmarking http://zootool.com/user/rochacbruno/ 2010/12/16 Branko Vukelic branko.vuke...@gmx.com Damn! I have a shitload of bookmarks there... :( Anyway, yeah, go for it! You can advertise as The next Delicioustm - Original Message - From: Albert Abril Sent: 12/17/10 12:22 AM To: web2py@googlegroups.com Subject: [web2py] delicious is closing I'm using delicious from long time ago. Today I read that yahoo will close delicious soon. It's time to migrate to my own bookmark app, question is.. there's a bookmark application wrote in web2py, should I start one? :D Kind regards! -- Albert Abril, @desmondo http://bressol.org -- Branko Vukelic branko.vuke...@gmx.com http://www.brankovukelic.com/ http://flickr.com/photos/foxbunny -- Bruno Rocha http://about.me/rochacbruno/bio -- Branko Vukelic branko.vuke...@gmx.com http://www.brankovukelic.com/ http://flickr.com/photos/foxbunny
Re: [web2py] Re: it case you missed it...
- Original Message - From: pbreit Sent: 12/17/10 12:52 AM To: web2py@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [web2py] Re: it case you missed it... branko, I'm curious why permissive licensing is a problem for you. is it a philosophical thing? what's the downside? wouldn't it be cool if your code was widely used? cake, django rails are permissively licensed (as are most frameworks) and it doesn't seem to be a problem. people still seem excited to develop for those platforms. Yes, it's a philosophical thing. I have participated in open-source projects before, always feeling inferior for not being able to code like a pro (since I'm a designer). I still managed to find a way to contribute (editing Wikis, contributing artwork, etc). Then I started programming (Ruby and Python), and I came to learn how great it is for developers to be able to share code freely. Even though FSF was established just a few years after I was born, I learned about the history of the movement that kicked it off, because I respected and loved the kind of spirit I was discovering. And I believe that if it weren't for FSF and their stubborn insistence on free software, there would be no open-source the kind we know today. Today, people are starting to take it all for granted and say shit like BSD is better than GPL, etc, and FSF hardliners scares them. Why? Just to win the popularity award? But think about it: if it weren't for those hardliners, BSD would be worth precisly bollocks, too. The only point where I possibly differ from FSF is that there should be a difference between normal usage (usage as intended including sharing/distribution) and modification. Modification should result in new free software, distribution should result merely in notification that the base software is free software. Free software should never become closed, that's my bottom line. That fact that a bunch of people like something says precisely fuckall. Just count how many people get off using Windows. Does that tell you something about how great Windows is? I hope not. That's hardly a valid point. On the frameworks side, look at Django. So many bug-fix releases lately. And their TRUNK used to be awesome. Now you can't even trust the releases. And it's growing fatter by day, and loose coupling song is starting to get a different tune. At one time I wrote permanent redirection middleware for both Django and web.py. What took me a day to write on web.py took me a week on Django, and it was never as simple as I liked it to be, the main reason being that it involved at least 3 core components and the (then) nasty polymorphism framework called content type or something like that. Soon it'll be too bloated to support its own weight, and people will start looking for lightweight frameworks like werkzeug and node.js. But that has nothing to do with BSD. It's the price of having too many hands involved in the process without an adequate system to ensure quality. -- Branko Vukelic branko.vuke...@gmx.com http://www.brankovukelic.com/ http://flickr.com/photos/foxbunny
Re: [web2py] delicious is closing
Let's not forget the awesome AND supported firefox plugin. 3 - Original Message - From: Albert Abril Sent: 12/17/10 12:52 AM To: web2py@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [web2py] delicious is closing tags, public/private , friends, and usability (bookmarklet, nice ui). this *was* the success of delicious IMHO. On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 12:50 AM, Branko Vukelic branko.vuke...@gmx.comwrote: Does it do tagging? I really liked the way delicious bmarks can be tagged and all... - Original Message - From: Bruno Rocha Sent: 12/17/10 12:43 AM To: web2py@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [web2py] delicious is closing I always prefer to use zootool for bookmarking http://zootool.com/user/rochacbruno/ 2010/12/16 Branko Vukelic branko.vuke...@gmx.com Damn! I have a shitload of bookmarks there... :( Anyway, yeah, go for it! You can advertise as The next Delicioustm - Original Message - From: Albert Abril Sent: 12/17/10 12:22 AM To: web2py@googlegroups.com Subject: [web2py] delicious is closing I'm using delicious from long time ago. Today I read that yahoo will close delicious soon. It's time to migrate to my own bookmark app, question is.. there's a bookmark application wrote in web2py, should I start one? :D Kind regards! -- Albert Abril, @desmondo http://bressol.org -- Branko Vukelic branko.vuke...@gmx.com http://www.brankovukelic.com/ http://flickr.com/photos/foxbunny -- Bruno Rocha http://about.me/rochacbruno/bio -- Branko Vukelic branko.vuke...@gmx.com http://www.brankovukelic.com/ http://flickr.com/photos/foxbunny -- Albert Abril, @desmondo http://bressol.org -- Branko Vukelic branko.vuke...@gmx.com http://www.brankovukelic.com/ http://flickr.com/photos/foxbunny
Re: [web2py] Re: it case you missed it...
- Original Message - From: pbreit Sent: 12/17/10 01:40 AM To: web2py@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [web2py] Re: it case you missed it... Fair enough, I respect that. Massimo has done a wonderful job of adding really good features while keeping web2py lean. As it gets more popular is there a concern that more people will lean on Massimo to add bloat? That would definitely be unfortunate. At that point, I'd just conclude it's become too popular for its own good. But I doubt Massimo would just add in any kind of crap that flies in. -- Branko Vukelic branko.vuke...@gmx.com http://www.brankovukelic.com/ http://flickr.com/photos/foxbunny
Re: [web2py] delicious is closing
I'm sold! Thanks for the tip, btw. :) - Original Message - From: Bruno Rocha Sent: 12/17/10 01:37 AM To: web2py@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [web2py] delicious is closing Zoo Tool has tags, friends and plugins for firefox and chrome. it also can tag individual images, videos, audio etc from web. I really like it. 2010/12/16 Branko Vukelic branko.vuke...@gmx.com Let's not forget the awesome AND supported firefox plugin. 3 - Original Message - From: Albert Abril Sent: 12/17/10 12:52 AM To: web2py@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [web2py] delicious is closing tags, public/private , friends, and usability (bookmarklet, nice ui). this *was* the success of delicious IMHO. On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 12:50 AM, Branko Vukelic branko.vuke...@gmx.com wrote: Does it do tagging? I really liked the way delicious bmarks can be tagged and all... - Original Message - From: Bruno Rocha Sent: 12/17/10 12:43 AM To: web2py@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [web2py] delicious is closing I always prefer to use zootool for bookmarking http://zootool.com/user/rochacbruno/ 2010/12/16 Branko Vukelic branko.vuke...@gmx.com Damn! I have a shitload of bookmarks there... :( Anyway, yeah, go for it! You can advertise as The next Delicioustm - Original Message - From: Albert Abril Sent: 12/17/10 12:22 AM To: web2py@googlegroups.com Subject: [web2py] delicious is closing I'm using delicious from long time ago. Today I read that yahoo will close delicious soon. It's time to migrate to my own bookmark app, question is.. there's a bookmark application wrote in web2py, should I start one? :D Kind regards! -- Albert Abril, @desmondo http://bressol.org -- Branko Vukelic branko.vuke...@gmx.com http://www.brankovukelic.com/ http://flickr.com/photos/foxbunny -- Bruno Rocha http://about.me/rochacbruno/bio -- Branko Vukelic branko.vuke...@gmx.com http://www.brankovukelic.com/ http://flickr.com/photos/foxbunny -- Albert Abril, @desmondo http://bressol.org -- Branko Vukelic branko.vuke...@gmx.com http://www.brankovukelic.com/ http://flickr.com/photos/foxbunny -- Bruno Rocha http://about.me/rochacbruno/bio -- Branko Vukelic branko.vuke...@gmx.com http://www.brankovukelic.com/ http://flickr.com/photos/foxbunny
Re: [web2py] delicious is closing
Hah, cool. It can import delicious bookmarks! Bruno, you saved the day! :D - Original Message - From: Bruno Rocha Sent: 12/17/10 01:44 AM To: web2py@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [web2py] delicious is closing What would happen if OUND Delicious had a baby: Zootool« 2010/12/16 Bruno Rocha rochacbr...@gmail.com Zoo Tool has tags, friends and plugins for firefox and chrome. it also can tag individual images, videos, audio etc from web. I really like it. 2010/12/16 Branko Vukelic branko.vuke...@gmx.com Let's not forget the awesome AND supported firefox plugin. 3 - Original Message - From: Albert Abril Sent: 12/17/10 12:52 AM To: web2py@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [web2py] delicious is closing tags, public/private , friends, and usability (bookmarklet, nice ui). this *was* the success of delicious IMHO. On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 12:50 AM, Branko Vukelic branko.vuke...@gmx.comwrote: Does it do tagging? I really liked the way delicious bmarks can be tagged and all... - Original Message - From: Bruno Rocha Sent: 12/17/10 12:43 AM To: web2py@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [web2py] delicious is closing I always prefer to use zootool for bookmarking http://zootool.com/user/rochacbruno/ 2010/12/16 Branko Vukelic branko.vuke...@gmx.com Damn! I have a shitload of bookmarks there... :( Anyway, yeah, go for it! You can advertise as The next Delicioustm - Original Message - From: Albert Abril Sent: 12/17/10 12:22 AM To: web2py@googlegroups.com Subject: [web2py] delicious is closing I'm using delicious from long time ago. Today I read that yahoo will close delicious soon. It's time to migrate to my own bookmark app, question is.. there's a bookmark application wrote in web2py, should I start one? :D Kind regards! -- Albert Abril, @desmondo http://bressol.org -- Branko Vukelic branko.vuke...@gmx.com http://www.brankovukelic.com/ http://flickr.com/photos/foxbunny -- Bruno Rocha http://about.me/rochacbruno/bio -- Branko Vukelic branko.vuke...@gmx.com http://www.brankovukelic.com/ http://flickr.com/photos/foxbunny -- Albert Abril, @desmondo http://bressol.org -- Branko Vukelic branko.vuke...@gmx.com http://www.brankovukelic.com/ http://flickr.com/photos/foxbunny -- Bruno Rocha http://about.me/rochacbruno/bio -- Bruno Rocha http://about.me/rochacbruno/bio -- Branko Vukelic branko.vuke...@gmx.com http://www.brankovukelic.com/ http://flickr.com/photos/foxbunny
Re: [web2py] Re: it case you missed it...
- Original Message - From: Anthony Sent: 12/17/10 02:30 AM To: web2py-users Subject: [web2py] Re: it case you missed it... On Dec 16, 6:14 pm, Branko Vukelic branko.vuke...@gmx.com wrote: Reading the full text of the Apache license, I think dual-licensing web2py under GPLv2 and Apache License 2.0 would solve all of the problems except 1: reuse of web2py components and libraries for building closed-source software. For me, personally, that would not be fair game. If you are taking apart web2py and building something useful, you should share. Now that there's a truly standalone DAL, what if someone wants to use that in an application? What about some of the other contrib modules, like markmin? This is a question only Massimo can give a qualified answer to. The following is merely my opinion: Yes, they should share the code. They wouldn't be _required_ (if you ask me), but they should. If they modify it in any way, or source the code from it, they should share both DAL _and_ their app. -- Branko Vukelic branko.vuke...@gmx.com http://www.brankovukelic.com/ http://flickr.com/photos/foxbunny
Re: [web2py] Re: it case you missed it...
- Original Message - From: Anthony Sent: 12/17/10 03:33 AM To: web2py-users Subject: [web2py] Re: it case you missed it... I guess it seems odd to say if you build an app using the entire web2py framework, then you can close source your app, but if you build Entire _unmodified_ web2py framework. Also, it's not 'build', but 'distribute'. Big difference. If you are not sharing it with anyone, you can do whatever you want. your app using only part of the web2py framework, you must share your app. For example, suppose someone plugs the DAL into Flask and builds Ideally yes. But there's one catch. The keyword is _distribute_ not _build_. I hope it clears things up a bit. Someone has also cleverly noted tha if you build your app for your client using whatever GPL tools you stumbled upon, you are only required to share the source code with the client because you're distributing it to your client only. You don't actually have to put it some place where everyone can see. That's allowed. So, it's not like you have to share it with the rest of the world. In case of web2py as a whole, with GPLv2 + commercial exception, you don't even have to do that, unless you've modified web2py somehow, or used pieces of it in your application code (where 'pieces of it' excludes the welcome app). -- Branko Vukelic branko.vuke...@gmx.com http://www.brankovukelic.com/ http://flickr.com/photos/foxbunny
Re: [web2py] Re: it case you missed it...
- Original Message - From: Anthony Sent: 12/17/10 04:22 AM To: web2py-users Subject: [web2py] Re: it case you missed it... So, at least one advantage of BSD is it doesn't require all this clearing up. ;) How nice... -- Branko Vukelic branko.vuke...@gmx.com http://www.brankovukelic.com/ http://flickr.com/photos/foxbunny
Re: [web2py] Re: administrator controller
Wasn't Thadeus working on this, though? With a public API so it can integrate into admin, and all the bells and whistles. On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 5:28 AM, mdipierro mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu wrote: If we can repurpose Martin's app and he is willing to maintain it, that would be the best solution. I can also split appliances. Not hard to do but we need a way to vote and keep track of versions. Massimo On Dec 14, 9:48 pm, Bruno Rocha rochacbr...@gmail.com wrote: 2010/12/15 mdipierro mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu I think we need a better public repository for plugins so that people can contribute. web2py.com/appliances can be splited in categories ['Applications','modules','plugins'] or @martin created an application for WAE (http://w2pexhibition.appspot.com/) source is here:http://bitbucket.org/mulonemartin/exhibition Someone can publish it in GAE to host applications, plugins, modules etc. and that could replace /appliances [or if you prefer host it under web2py.com/something] What about? Bruno Rochahttp://about.me/rochacbruno/bio -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] Re: it case you missed it...
Don't start this discussion again. :) It's already soft-of decided that web2py will remain GPL. On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 1:36 PM, Wikus van de Merwe dupakrop...@googlemail.com wrote: Why GPL is discouraging users? Is it the case that Drupal, Wordpress or Joomla have no users? They are all released on GPL terms. Moreover, they consider themes and plugins to be derivative work and as such they have to be released on GPL terms if distributed. Still, thousands of plugins and themes have been made. Pay close attention here, *if* distributed. In common web development scenario where expected end product is the working web application deployed on some server, the application code is not distributed but simply used and doesn't have to be released on GPL terms. In those rare cases where client specifically require the source code as she wants to deploy the application on her own, you release the code on GPL terms but to her only. She paid for it's creation anyway right? And with web2py, thanks to exceptions, you don't even have to do that. Application code is not considered to be a derivative work. But changes to the framework and works build on top of it are (that is, *if* distributed). So again, you can have your own specialised version of web2py running on some servers, but you cannot make a proprietary fork of web2py. And this will be allowed by non-copyleft licences such as modified BSD licence or X11 licence. Now, those who would benefit from a proprietary fork are not the users. And in that sense, by not allowing the community fragmentation around a number of different less or more commercial oriented forks the GPL helps to create a good framework, as it keeps the community together. So as I just showed to you, GPL is a non-issue for the users and protects the freedom of the framework much better than non-copyleft licences would. Your only argument being the other Python frameworks use non-copyleft licences is not convincing. Statistic != merit. -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] Re: it case you missed it...
On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 7:25 PM, pbreit pbreitenb...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry but this requires a response. I was kind of hoping it did not, but there you go... You'd have to prove some sort of unintended circumstance to No! YOU would have to give us a CONCRETE case where GPL+exception setup may prevent someone adopting and using web2py. Otherwise, this discussions previous conclusion (and that's that GPLv2 or GPLv3 will be used in conjunction with a clearer, more precise exception clause) still stands, and you may contribute usefully by answering Massimo's request: If you guys can come up with a better way to phrase the [exception clause], and there is consensus, I will probably adopt it. I think we all agree with the intended intentions.If you guys can come up with a better way to phrase the license, and there is consensus, I will probably adopt it. I think we all agree with the intended intentions. That's the new topic right now, and please do not try to divert it back to what's been already discussed for probably too long. -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] Re: it case you missed it...
On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 8:07 PM, pbreit pbreitenb...@gmail.com wrote: It's clear that GPL scares off potential users. That bug is already marked invalid. You'd have to give us a stack trace if you want to reopen it, and preferably attach a working patch. Please also note the version of web2py that you are using. -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] RMS about Chrome OS and Cloud Computing
On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 9:56 PM, Michele Comitini michele.comit...@gmail.com wrote: RMS being quite rough as usual, but in the end he has some good points... think twice before using web2py on GAE!! :-D http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2010/dec/14/chrome-os-richard-stallman-warning He's been saying that ever since Google announced Chrome OS. -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] Re: it case you missed it...
- Original Message - From: Anthony Sent: 12/15/10 10:54 PM To: web2py@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [web2py] Re: it case you missed it... I like GPL plus a (clarified) exception, but I wouldn't exactly say pbreit's concerns are invalid. There clearly is some history of confusion and concern among web2py users/developers and their clients: Point is, it's been discussed over and over, and over, and over... in a more-or less the same manner, too. Just saying BSD! won't make it BSD. I think that's become clear. And it's become painfully obvious that we are all divided between GPL and anything-but-GPL, and we have come to the conclusion that it's Massimo's call. Massimo called GPL, because we have also clarified that there isn't a technical threat to the end users. TECHNICALLY speaking, nobody should really be concerned as long as they are aware of the exception and agree to it. So, repeating discussion, using Gplophobia or Gnuphobia as the pivot is not productive, and it would go on like this forever. Branko p.s. Yes I've finally fully switched to my GMX account. It's the same me. :)
Re: [web2py] Re: it case you missed it...
- Original Message - From: Anthony Sent: 12/16/10 03:01 AM To: web2py-users Subject: [web2py] Re: it case you missed it... Yes, I agree, but all I said was that the concerns are not invalid (I also pointed out an issue that has not thus far been addressed -- standalone DAL). I think we can decide to stick with GPL while still recognizing it may present a barrier for some (possibly simply due to confusion or risk aversion rather than a real legal threat). This issue is both complex and important, so a long discussion should not be surprising. I, for one, have learned a lot, and assuming we follow through, I believe the result of this long thread will be an improvement in the license and therefore the comfort of prospective users. Those uninterested in the topic can easily ignore the thread. You are missing the main point here, and that's software freedom and two incompatible views regarding that. It's not by conincidence that there is a commercial EXCEPTION to GPL in web2py. The reason it's called an exception is that it is incompatible with the intent of GPL. Now consider that Massimo has _chosen_ GPL with an intent, and that GPL aligns with that intent. Do I need to go on? -- Branko Vukelic branko.vuke...@gmx.com http://www.brankovukelic.com/ http://flickr.com/photos/foxbunny
Re: [web2py] Re: Simple debugger
On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 6:32 AM, weheh richard_gor...@verizon.net wrote: I want to go to Eclipse but didn't succeed in getting it to install run the first time through. Have you tried NetBeans? It's goot support for Python (still beta), and it wasn't so bad the last time I tried. Although I now use Vim with RopeVim, and I can't say I need anything better. -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] grid
PowerTable? ;) On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 4:02 PM, Bruno Rocha rochacbr...@gmail.com wrote: To avoid confusion and to avoid problems with the author's old plugin for DataTables. http://web2py.com/plugins/default/datatable I decided to rename the plugin, and I am in doubt, what about? MagicTable, MagicGrid, SmartTable, SmartGrid, RadTable, RadGrid ? -- Bruno Rocha http://about.me/rochacbruno/bio -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] Re: it case you missed it...
On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 5:06 PM, VP vtp2...@gmail.com wrote: I am happy with what Massimo intends web2py's license to be. I think a lot of people are too. App developers should not have to worry about the licensing issues. I think the license should be precise and concise. Further because it combines two types of licenses into one, it should not be contradicting each other in some way. It does need a little bit of clarification, though, especially in the are of what is considered including web2py source in your app, and what is meant by acknowledging the author etc. Maybe, it doesn't need to be rewritten (much), but needs an FAQ attached to it. Most certainly. I've checked the FAQ and there's no mention of the commercial exception. -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] Re: Simple debugger
I absolutely prefer ipdb for debugging and Vim for editing. The combo is unbeatable. :) Try splitting the buffer in Netbeans or Aptana. In Vim, it's just ``:split``. :) I love this editor. 3 -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] Simple debugger
Think of ipdb as of a print statement on steroids. If you want to debug a particular part of your app, you simply add this before that section in the source code: import ipdb; ipdb.set_trace() When the server hits that part of the code, it will halt execution and display a prompt in the terminal. It's a regular IPython shell that accepts arbitrary python statements and expressions, as well as a debugging environment that supports pdb-style commands, like ``s`` for step, ``r`` for return (I think), etc. I don't remember the exact commands, but I think you can get help by typing ``h`` or ``help``. On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 10:02 PM, Lorin Rivers lriv...@mosasaur.com wrote: Branko, Can you explain how you use iPython and ipdb together to debug web2py apps? How do I invoke web2py? How do I pass parameters to it like I do when invoking it with python (e.g., python web2py -a mumble -p 8000 -i 127.0.0.1) Thanks! On Dec 13, 2010, at 23:13 , Branko Vukelic wrote: On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 5:45 AM, Bruno Rocha rochacbr...@gmail.com wrote: Someone else has any debug tip or advice for sharing? I used this: http://pypi.python.org/pypi/ipdb All the IPython goodness + pdb-style debugging. You get auto-complete and command history, too. ;) -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group -- Lorin Rivers Mosasaur: Killer Technical Marketing http://www.mosasaur.com mailto:lriv...@mosasaur.com 512/203.3198 (m) -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] Simple debugger
On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 10:18 PM, Lorin Rivers lriv...@mosasaur.com wrote: ipython web2py.py -a 1234 -i 127.0.0.1 -p 8000 ipython != ipdb ipdb is an embedded shell + debugger. ipython is just a shell. I used to be able to use the ipython's embedded shell in my projects, but that didn't work in some situations, so I found ipdb. Basically, it opens up the ipython shell wherever you insert that statement I wrote in the previous reply: import ipdb; ipdb.set_trace() So if you have a method called index(), you could: def index(): # do something import ipdb; ipdb.set_trace() # continue doing what you usually do # there might be a bug in here somewhere return dict(...) -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] Re: it case you missed it...
On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 8:00 AM, mdipierro mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu wrote: 1) all web2py/*.py and web2py/gluon/*py files are LPGL +1 2) all web2py/gluon/contrib/* files are LGPL unless specified +1 otherwise (MIT or BSD are possible for third party contributions) 3rd party contributions that were released as MIT or BSD cannot be licensed under LGPL because they're incompatible. e.g., BSD says shall not place any more limitations yada yada or something like that, and LGPL does just that: place limitations on what you can do by telling you not to close-source, etc. 3) the official web2py binaries for Mac and Windows are freeware There's no need. You just have to point to the source code and you can still distrubite Win/Mac as binary-only even, under LGPL. 4) the scaffolding app is public domain except for images/css/js files which may have their own licenses. I dunno about PD. It doesn't exist everywhere. :) A better solution would be to offer unrestricted use provided intellectual property (logos and web2py name) is removed etc etc. Is this more or less confusing? Yes. It's the nature of the beast. :) How can we make it more clear? A FAQ that explains what you can do with the stuff. -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] Re: it case you missed it...
On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 9:11 AM, Anthony abasta...@gmail.com wrote: source and freeware for binaries) rather than LGPL with a commercial exception (which could lead to confusion and concern). LGPL _is_ the commercial exception. That's why they call it lesser. :) -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] Re: it case you missed it...
Ok, so I got word from GNU. What they say is that using imports the way Python does is considered creating derivative work, and LGPL would not, in their view, except the vendor from the obligation to release their apps under the terms of (L)GPL (which is kinda surprising). As solution to this they suggested two things: 1. make dual license, of which the commercial license would be for-pay and would allow companies to make closed-source derivatives or distribution of web2py and/or web2py apps 2. make an exeption clause under GPL for the apps (which is what Massimo does and is perfectly ok) I think it'd be best that the source version of web2py be covered by the 2., and that the 'freeware' version be made 'shareware' (pay to bundle the binary, that is) as an option 1. At any rate, the conclusion is that the exception does cover the proprietary distribution of web2py apps and does not violate GPL. On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 11:12 AM, Branko Vukelic bg.bra...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 9:11 AM, Anthony abasta...@gmail.com wrote: source and freeware for binaries) rather than LGPL with a commercial exception (which could lead to confusion and concern). LGPL _is_ the commercial exception. That's why they call it lesser. :) -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] Re: it case you missed it...
On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 2:43 PM, Anthony abasta...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, LGPL (I think) allows the exception to distribute the source along with an application that links/imports the source. I was talking about the other web2py exception, which allows distribution of the binaries without the source at all (i.e., the freeware license for the binaries). Currently, we Why? I don't think it would be too much to ask companies to pay for binary-only bundling. If you can distribute with the sources (meaning either put sources in the bundle, or offer sources some other way, mind you), why not? I have absolutely nothing against that. If a company is not prepared to do that, they should use a closed-source product that allows this. -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] Re: it case you missed it...
On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 4:13 PM, Anthony abasta...@gmail.com wrote: Hmm, I thought it was just the opposite -- people like MIT/BSD because they don't place any restrictions on how you license a modified/derived work. So, you can take an MIT/BSD licensed program, modify/combine it, and then release the modified/combined version as LGPL, GPL, or even closed source. MIT does not permit that, as far as I can tell. to deal in the Software without restriction, which invalidates your claim because The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be included in all copies or substantial portions of the Software. Closed-source means restriction, and so does GPL. So MIT is not compatible. Afaik, GPL doesn't consider BSD as GPL-compatible, either. You can't go the other way, though (i.e., you can't modify/combine a GPL/LGPL program and release it as MIT/BSD). The GNU website lists both the modified BSD and the MIT (Expat) licenses as GPL-compatible (http://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html). Yes, in a way they are. MIT is even viral, like GPL. If this isn't the case, then web2py would already be in violation of various contrib licenses, no? Yes. Yes, I think that's right (if you just point to the source rather than actually include it, you might have to make sure you point to the originally distributed version, not just the current version at web2py.com). We might simplify this by (a) including a link to the appropriate source version That won't do. According to GNU, you have to host the sources yourself, and ensure that it is available at least 3 years after you've stopped distributing the binaries. I think there is a loophole for this in v2, though, but v3 definitely plugged it. The Arch linux community was forced to start hosting the entire corpus of sources they were building on to get into compliance. right in the license document of the binary version, or (b) including a zip file with the source right in the binary version -- so any distribution of the binary version would automatically satisfy the GPL/LGPL license without any further effort by the developer/distributor. That's reasonable, yeah. Are you saying yes, it's more confusing? Whether or not it's confusing, I think it may be less confusing than the current license because it removes one of the exceptions (for web2py applications) by switching to the LGPL. If According to GNU, it does not. So an exception is the best solution. A more hussle-free option could be offered as a second license, whether for pay or free of charge, although I think for-pay would just be being fair to the project. we can also remove the binary distribution exception (and rely on the GPL/LGPL provision for binary distribution), it would become simpler still. I guess the only issue is whether people would readily understand that the LGPL wouldn't apply to web2py apps and would allow binary distribution -- you have to read through the license carefully to figure that out (unless you're already familiar with the LGPL). So, if we switch to LGPL, it would probably be worth pointing this out in a FAQ, and maybe even including an explanation with the license, just so it's very clear what is permitted. I think there need not be any provisions for using or distributing web2py itself except those that are offered by the GPL. In fact, I'd go as far as to make web2py AGPL isntead. The problem was this forced app developers to develop under GPL. And that's what the exception is about. GPL does NOT prevent you from distributing binary-only web2py with your proprietary binary-only app as long as you comply to GPL for the web2py part. Your app is GPL-free anyway. I just don't understand why you insist that closed-source web2py should be allowed. I don't think it should be, and Massimo has also stated to that effect. -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] Re: it case you missed it...
On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 4:29 PM, Branko Vukelic bg.bra...@gmail.com wrote: Your app is GPL-free anyway Because of the exception, to be precise, not according to GPL. -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] Re: manual login-form
Bruno, is there something like {{=authform.children}} to render all
the interior without the FORM tags?
On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 4:15 PM, Bruno Rocha rochacbr...@gmail.com wrote:
form.elements()[0].attributes['_id'] and form.attributes['_id'] get/set the
same value.
2010/12/13 Bruno Rocha rochacbr...@gmail.com
You can try this:
{{loginform.attributes['_id'] = 'someidhere'}}
{{=loginform}}
2010/12/13 pk peter.kirch...@youngdesigners.de
can nobody help me?
On 12 Dez., 23:44, pk peter.kirch...@youngdesigners.de wrote:
hi,
i hope somebody of you can help me very fast.
how can i set the form-ID for the form (loginform)
if i post the code {{=loginform}}
i get this code automaticly:
div id=contenttext
pform action= enctype=multipart/form-data
method=posttabletr id=auth_user_email__rowtd
class=w2p_fllabel for=auth_user_email
id=auth_user_email__labelE-Mail: /label/tdtd
class=w2p_fwinput class=string id=auth_user_email name=email
type=text value= //tdtd class=w2p_fc/td/trtr
id=auth_user_password__rowtd class=w2p_fllabel
for=auth_user_password id=auth_user_password__labelPasswort: /
label/tdtd class=w2p_fwinput class=password
id=auth_user_password name=password type=password value= //
tdtd class=w2p_fc/td/trtr
id=auth_user_remember__rowtdlabelnbsp;nbsp;/label/
tdtddivinput class=checkbox id=auth_user_remember
name=remember type=checkbox value=on /label
for=auth_user_rememberAngemeldet bleiben/label/div/tdtd/
td/trtr id=submit_record__rowtd class=w2p_fl/tdtd
class=w2p_fwinput type=submit value=Auf geht`s //tdtd
class=w2p_fc/td/tr/tablediv class=hiddeninput
name=_next type=hidden value=/NETAVATAR/default/index /input
name=_formkey type=hidden
value=eeac5cfc-4eb8-4532-90b7-546bbf558f9e /input name=_formname
type=hidden value=login //div/form/p
pa href=/NETAVATAR/default/user/request_reset_passwordPasswort
vergessen?/a
/div
--
Bruno Rocha
http://about.me/rochacbruno/bio
--
Bruno Rocha
http://about.me/rochacbruno/bio
--
Branko Vukelić
bg.bra...@gmail.com
stu...@brankovukelic.com
Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/
Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/
Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/)
I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny
Gimp Brushmakers Guild
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Re: [web2py] Re: it case you missed it...
On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 5:50 PM, Anthony abasta...@gmail.com wrote: On Monday, December 13, 2010 8:38:12 AM UTC-5, Branko Vukelic wrote: Sorry, I missed this post. Would you mind sending the exact question you asked and the full response from GNU? I'm surprised because I would think a web2py app would qualify as an Application or a Combined Work under LGPL: Start verbatim copy - On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 1:09 PM, --- licens...@fsf.org wrote: Importing code and sharing namespaces would most probably be creating a derivative work and would need to be licensed under GPLv2 as well. Ok, so let me clarify a bit. By importing code, we mean (since this is a Python library) that the application framework will execute parts of the application, and that the application in turn may execute parts of the framework. It is a fact that the application may not execute properly without the presence of the framework, but the framework authors do not consider applications derivative work because of this. Could you please advise on this position? The answer would be the same. These activities would create a derivative work. Would releasing the framework under the terms of LGPL allow proprietary software vendors to If the goal is to allow proprietary software vendors to do certain things you should just say so. There are ways of doing this without harming the free software community. The LGPL isn't recommended in this case (see: [http://www.gnu.org/licenses/why-not-lgpl.html]). One way is to dual-license the code. Release the code under a strong copyleft license such as the GPL and if a company wishes to distribute it under proprietary terms sell them a copy of the software under a suitable license. Done right this is a great way of funding the development of free software. This was everyone always has access to a copy of the code under a free software license and proprietary software companies fund your development efforts. Another way is to Release the code under a strong copyleft license such as the GPL and to add narrowly defined exceptions which would allow proprietary software to interact with your software in particular ways. See: [http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#GPLIncompatibleLibs] End verbatim copy - Judge for yourself if I understood correctly what the guy says. An “Application” is any work that makes use of an interface provided by the Library, but which is not otherwise based on the Library. Defining a subclass of a class defined by the Library is deemed a mode of using an interface provided by the Library. A “Combined Work” is a work produced by combining or linking an Application with the Library. The particular version of the Library with which the Combined Work was made is also called the “Linked Version”. Well, yes. That's exactly why I considered LGPL a good option for us. But apparently GNU differs on this. -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] Re: it case you missed it...
On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 9:35 PM, Wikus van de Merwe dupakrop...@googlemail.com wrote: So as you see, the GPL alone as well as the special case of licensing of web2py and application written for it is quite complex. I believe we all would benefit from having all this explained in a separate section of the website, to avoid confusion. Massimo is not available atm for health reasons, but he has already considered doing this, and I'm sure he will make it very clear that web2py is, indeed, dual-licensed. 1) all web2py/*.py and web2py/gluon/*py files are LPGL The goal of the GPL is to grant everyone the freedom to copy, redistribute, understand, and modify a program. If you could incorporate GPL-covered software into a non-free system, it would have the effect of making the GPL-covered software non-free too. [10] And I believe this is a major point in the discussion. Special privileges for distribution of the application code is one thing, and allowing proprietary derivative works of the framework itself is another. To be honest I don't see any benefits of such a licence change. Thank you for summing that up. :) I also believe people are missing the main point here, and that is Massimo is fully commited to the points above. That is the first reason why he chose GPL as the license in the first place. To go against the authors' wishes just to change the license to the one someone feels more comfortable with is unfair to say the least. As Massimo said once, web2py is not about creating a mass-consumption framework. There are plenty of those to go around. His wish is to create a good framework that does its job well, and I think GPL license can only help that. This is what we currently have, with except to LGPL for files in contrib, so I guess there is not much to discuss here. As long as contrib files are optional and their licence is GPL compatible, everything is fine here. Binaries under the GPL exception are effectively freeware. And the template app will work best as public domain as the licensing issues won't get in the way. It might be good though to explicitly state the permissions (e.g. as in CC0 [11])as in some countries such as France, work can't be put into the public domain voluntarily. Again, even the welcome app can be GPL as long as there is an exception clause similar to the one used for web2py apps. For instance, if you consider welcome app as part of web2py (because it uses it to scaffold new applications via the wizard, for instance), all development on the welcome app should contribute back to upstream, and GPL ensures this. However, the actual use of the welcome app for scaffolding your apps can be liberated from the terms of GPL. It all depends on whether you consider it worthwhile to do that. -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] Re: it case you missed it...
On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 11:46 PM, Anthony abasta...@gmail.com wrote: intellectual property attorney with open source experience. Maybe it's not worth the bother/cost right now, though. First, technically, GPL license is totally ok if we look at web2py on its own. It gets the job done. Releasing web2py under LGPL accomplishes nothing for the framework that GPL hasn't already. We were actually discussing applications built to run on top of web2py. That's covered by the exceptions, and imho, they should be enough. No change is required, since FSF's suggestions are already implemented. The only thing that needs to change is to make the exceptions more prominent (FTR, I haven't seen them before this discussion started.) On the psychological level, I doubt it would accomplish much in the way of changing people's perception of 'evilness' of the GPL and its derivatives (like LGPL). I am more and more convinced of this observing some of the reactions in this discussion. For those cases, I don't think there is a straightforward solution, other than counselling maybe. Having a concrete need for which GPL+exception poses a _real_ obstacle (and not 'what if, omg, wtf, bbq' FUD) is one thing. Massimo has already demonstrated that he is open to custom licensing should the need arise (and FTR, I think he should charge for it, too, but I also think he would not). If that is not good enough, then maybe web2py isn't for them after all. -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] Re: it case you missed it...
On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 11:33 PM, pbreit pbreitenb...@gmail.com wrote: Unless there is a move away from GPL, I don't think it's worthwhile to split Absolutely. You do not have to discuss the LGPL/GPL licensing issue if it offends you so much. Especially if you cannot refrain from name-calling during the process. -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] Re: it case you missed it...
On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 2:15 AM, Graham Dumpleton graham.dumple...@gmail.com wrote: it being a part of the library. Thus technically the template code may be construed as ending up as part of your application. FSF specifically allows this in LGPL, if I'm not mistaken: The object code form of an Application may incorporate material from a header file that is part of the Library. You may convey such object code under terms of your choice, provided that, if the incorporated material is not limited to numerical parameters, data structure layouts and accessors, or small macros, inline functions and templates (ten or fewer lines in length), you do both of the following: a) Give prominent notice with each copy of the object code that the Library is used in it and that the Library and its use are covered by this License. b) Accompany the object code with a copy of the GNU GPL and this license document. -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] Re: it case you missed it...
On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 4:14 AM, Graham Dumpleton graham.dumple...@gmail.com wrote: They may have clarified it then. I am only going by what problems I knew came up many many many years ago, ie., early 90s. However, web2py is still using GPLv2 :P That ought to be fixed. GPLv3 is both more liberal about some things, and fixes lots of loopholes from GPLv2, so it's basically 'better', depending on where you come from, that is. Another good example of why lawyers are a good idea. We all often go based on possibly out of date recollections. :-) Well, that's something Massimo's wallet has to decide. :) -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] Re: it case you missed it...
On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 3:43 AM, Anthony abasta...@gmail.com wrote: The FSF has a different agenda from people who want to distribute their web2py applications closed source. GPL plus exceptions certainly works, but However, FSF's agenda also aligns with that of Massimo and some of us, contributors. We DO go by the spirit in which GPL was created (incidentally, I also license my open-source code under GPL/LGPLv3 lately). If exception works, than I think it's good enough. apparently it does create an obstacle for some (at least 3 people in this thread, and several on reddit, who presumably are representative of some segment of the potential user population). Is it worth catering to this segment of the population? Perhaps not, but I don't necessarily want to dismiss them as in need of counseling. Most other frameworks are indeed MIT/BSD, so these people aren't crazy. I don't know about Massimo, but to me, potential user facing a real trouble would be someone like LightDot, who found Massimo's statements and the exception good enough. You should also look at others who have already created commercial applications under the provided terms with no legal consequence. Perhaps these things are underexposed, but nevertheless it looks to me like there is a way for people to get informed and start hacking at their own business. Rather than just switching licenses, why don't we just help Massimo clarify what he wanted to convey? You can distribute web2py app under any license you like as long they do not contain web2py code. Yes, but that is not entirely correct. Your application will contain some scaffolding code. It is extremely important that the scaffolding code be either liberated from the terms of GPL via an exception. I think I've already mentioned this early on in this thread. Anyway, here's the excerpt from the book: web2py is open source and released under the GPL2.0 license, but applications developed with web2py are not subject to any license constraint. In fact, as long as they do not contain web2py source code, they are not considered derivative works. web2py also allows the developer to bytecode-compile applications and distribute them as closed source, although they will require web2py to run. The web2py license includes an exception that allows web developers to ship their products with original pre-compiled web2py binaries, without the accompanying source code. The actual commercial exception clause states the following: We allow the redistribution of unmodified binary versions of web2py provided that they contain a link to the official web2py site. This means you can redistribute web2py in binary or other closed source form together with the applications you develop as long as you acknowledge the author. If you make any modification to web2py you must distribute it together with the modified source code according to GPLv2.0. You can distribute web2py app under any license you like as long they do not contain web2py code. Maybe something like this would be better (optionally vetted by a lawyer): binary version means byte code version of web2py or your application application or app is software that is written specifically to run on web2py framework scaffolding is a process of setting up the necessary directory structure and files as the initial state of your application source code template code includes content in HTML and/or CSS and/or plain text format, placeholder text, images, and Python and/or JavaScript code to create the initial state of the application source code copyrighted template material includes images and copyright notices that appear in template content. you means licensee, and may be an individual or a company bundling means distributing an application along with web2py either as source code or as binary version in unmodified form A You hare hereby granted non-exclusive and non-perpetual license to: 1. Freely distribute or modify the template code to create an application. 2. Distribute the application under a license of your choosing for commercial and/or personal use. 3. Distribute the application as source code and/or as binary version. 4. Bundle the binary version of web2py with your application 5. Deploy your application on a web server, or as a service on an operating system using either the source code or a binary version of web2py. B Following restriction apply to above usage: 1. Your application may not include copyrighted template material. 2. Your application may not include web2py source code in either modified or unmodified form except under the terms of GNU General Public license, version 2 or any later version (at your option). 3. If your application includes portions of web2py source code, GNU General Public License shall apply only to the portions of the source code described under B/2 4. If you bundle the binary version of web2py, you must clearly note the current web address (URL) of web2py homepage and keep that information
Re: [web2py] Simple debugger
On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 5:45 AM, Bruno Rocha rochacbr...@gmail.com wrote: Someone else has any debug tip or advice for sharing? I used this: http://pypi.python.org/pypi/ipdb All the IPython goodness + pdb-style debugging. You get auto-complete and command history, too. ;) -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] Re: it case you missed it...
On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 6:55 AM, Anthony abasta...@gmail.com wrote: Sounds good. Though ideally we would get some expert advice at some point. Agreed. -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] Re: it case you missed it...
On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 9:51 AM, pbreit pbreitenb...@gmail.com wrote: 1. GPL is more objectionable than BSD/MIT Both GPL and BSD are not well suited to template code, that's the point. So which one would you suggest? It's already been suggested (with a minor wording problem). Look at the other posts in the topic.. 2. Frameworks tend not to use GPL So? So if many/most other frameworks do not use GPL, maybe not using GPL is worth considering for the Web2py framework. That seems a reasonable conclusion or at least a basis for consideration. Well, most people use PHP. Shall we consider using PHP then? ;) -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] Re: it case you missed it...
On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 11:09 AM, LightDot light...@gmail.com wrote: Has this scenario been looked over by a lawyer? Any such document would enable us to put customers at ease. It's a no brainer. The license covers the platform, not the code written _using_ that platform. It's not like Microsoft EULA and other commercial user licenses that also cover what you can produce on the platform, mind you. GPL strictly covers the code that you have _received_ not the one you've produced yourself. GPL is only relevant in cases where the code you've produces contains the code directly taken from the platform (and that's what we've been discussing here). For example, if welcome app were GPL (and it's not), you'd be forced to release your work as GPL unless you removed significant portions of the welcome app from your own application (and 'significant' depends on jurisdiction). However, according to Massimo, welcome app is _not_ GPL, so you don't have a problem with this. The only problem with the welcome app is that it's 'public domain', which is a concept that may not apply in all jurisdictions (especially outside US). Despite that, rest assured that the author of the welcome app will not sue your clients. ;) -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] Re: it case you missed it...
On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 2:03 PM, Branko Vukelic bg.bra...@gmail.com wrote: platform, mind you. GPL strictly covers the code that you have _received_ not the one you've produced yourself. Speaking of which, many developers use Linux, and many more sites are served off Linux boxes. And Linux is GPL. And that doesn't seem to bother anyone, right? -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] Re: BUTTON helper
On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 8:55 AM, weheh richard_gor...@verizon.net wrote: To be more explicit, I think BUTTON is good for newbies -- it's just so obvious and convenient. Now TAG.BUTTON ... yes, I like TAG, but I'm not used to thinking about it. I guess that makes me a newbie, still. STRONG helper is also missing, btw. -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] BUTTON helper
Not the same as button. Buttons are easier to style in general, and there's a good reason why it's used instead of input type=submit / or input type=button /. Also, button can wrap HTML, which is another reason why it's loved among fronted designers. :) On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 6:41 AM, Bruno Rocha rochacbr...@gmail.com wrote: INPUT(_type='button',_value='Click here', _onclick='javascript:alert(button clicked)') ? 2010/12/12 weheh richard_gor...@verizon.net I know this has come up before, but I found myself wondering why web2py doesn't have a BUTTON helper? Sure seems like it would be useful, backwards compatible and consistent. -- Bruno Rocha http://about.me/rochacbruno/bio -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] anybody use the web2py IRC chat?
On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 8:48 AM, weheh richard_gor...@verizon.net wrote: Just curious. I don't use it, but I probably would if I thought I could get a fast response from an expert. Don't worry, you'll get answers here fast enough. -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] Re: it case you missed it...
On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 5:08 PM, pbreit pbreitenb...@gmail.com wrote: Are there any advantages of GPL (with respect to frameworks)? It depends. -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] Re: it case you missed it...
On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 6:39 PM, pbreit pbreitenb...@gmail.com wrote: But as you say, BSD/MIT are better for users. He didn't say that. -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] Re: it case you missed it...
On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 7:21 PM, mdipierro mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu wrote: I think we should close this discussion. It is not going anywhere. The license of web2py is not up for discussion. +1 -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] Re: it case you missed it...
Since someone mentioned linking, etc, here's an exceprt from the GNU FAQ: Q. Does prelinking a GPLed binary to various libraries on the system, to optimize its performance, count as modification? A. No. Prelinking is part of a compilation process; it doesn't introduce any license requirements above and beyond what other aspects of compilation would. If you're allowed to link the program to the libraries at all, then it's fine to prelink with them as well. If you distribute prelinked object code, you need to follow the terms of section 6. I think this answers the original question. You do not violate GPL by having import statements in your code, as you can safely detach your code from web2py and reattach to another copy running somewhere else. On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 3:08 AM, Branko Vukelic bg.bra...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0097742/ On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 2:01 AM, mdipierro mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu wrote: Yes. The GPL prevents users from make a CLOSED SOURCE better derivative of the framework. That is exactly what this community wants to protect against. That is something that can kill an open source project and the reason GPL was invented. This discussion has nothing to do with users who are not affected. Please contact me privately about what you want to do. Perhaps you need a special license. Depending on what you need to do I may provide such license to you. Massimo On Dec 12, 6:53 pm, pbreit pbreitenb...@gmail.com wrote: But as you say, BSD/MIT are better for users. He didn't say that. He said it prevents users from making a better derivative. My apologies to the community and Massimo for be-laboring the point but I think it's unfortunate that the license alone is discouraging use of the framework. I'm very close to selecting Web2py for a large, public project but am having my doubts. -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] Re: it case you missed it...
This may also be relevant: Q. In what cases is the output of a GPL program covered by the GPL too? A. Only when the program copies part of itself into the output. -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] Re: Test for null not in a form
On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 1:51 AM, Lorin Rivers lriv...@mosasaur.com wrote: As far as I can tell, the only place null is mentioned in the DAL page is in the definition of tables. None means NULL in Python, though. -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] Re: anybody use the web2py IRC chat?
Take a deep breath. :) On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 10:32 PM, weheh richard_gor...@verizon.net wrote: Yah, this group is wonderfully fast. Occasionally I get desperate, though ... ;-) On Dec 12, 9:18 am, Branko Vukelic bg.bra...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 8:48 AM, weheh richard_gor...@verizon.net wrote: Just curious. I don't use it, but I probably would if I thought I could get a fast response from an expert. Don't worry, you'll get answers here fast enough. -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog:http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio:http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca:http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guildhttp://bit.ly/gbg-group -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] Re: it case you missed it...
On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 4:36 AM, Graham Dumpleton graham.dumple...@gmail.com wrote: As such, you can't rely on what you quote above. The only way is an exception statement to the GPL and even then that would need to be very carefully worded. In all this you really need a lawyer to look at the situation and draft that exception. If that hasn't been done and some legal evidence provided to show that the way the exception is done is valid and will stand up in a court of law, it is very easy to see why companies, who are going to be very risk averse, would be hesitant to use software that relies on the GPL but with some sort of stated exception where the latter is of unknown validity and with no legal precedent to support it. Graham You keep forgetting that 1. such an exception exists, and 2. Massimo is the only person that can exercise GPL in this case, since all contributors specifically signed such a contract. Anyway, I've already asked GNU to advise. I'll let you know what they say. -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] Re: it case you missed it...
On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 4:53 AM, LightDot light...@gmail.com wrote: and all), but I've never seen it or done it. Which is also the point of MIT. And exactly why massimo insists on GPL, which forbids this. So if the end result is the same (one can freely produce open or closed source applications, modules, etc.), i'm all for the GPLv2 license. It is clearly better for the community. There's a difference between GPLv2 and Massimo. Massimo specifically allows creating closed-source software that runs on web2py despite the possibility that GPL itself may not necessarily allow this. Regardless of the conclusion of this GPL agenda, the bottom line is you are free to create closed-source web2py apps (as long as you don't publish binary-only web2py modifications, that is). ;) -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] Re: SEO Tips How this can be applied in web2py apps?
On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 4:29 AM, Michael McGinnis ish...@biographiks.com wrote: Those are good ideas. Automatically appending the site name at the end of each title might be helpful. Or copying the first paragraph as a fall-back meta-description (not so sure about that one). Or inserting dynamic keywords for each page into the meta keywords. But we also have to avoid duplicate content, so we don't want to make things too automated. For example, we don't want to make it easy to use the same meta description or meta keywords on each page - that sometimes make Google think that each page has the same content. No it doesn't. It just downranks you... which is worse. :) Google is capable of figuring out what the page is about most of the time. It's just a bitch about compliance to their guidelines. They seem to have God complex or something. At any rate, it's a good idea to make web2py as automated as possible in this sense. page title | title is the form I use on all my stuff (check out http://www.experts4solutions.com/) and proven to work well, and should be the default in templates. I don't remember how description and keywords are assigned, but it's in some global, iirc. PageRank is mostly dead or dying, but Google probably has something equally nasty nowadays. The main point of SEO is to just apply the stuff Google talks about in their webmaster guidelines and to actually produce good content. There's nothing more to it. -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] Re: it case you missed it...
On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 5:46 AM, mdipierro mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu wrote: imported module are distributed with the compiled app (case 1). It is not linking if the py or pyc modules are not distributed together (case 2). In case 2 the GPL does not apply. Case 1 is not allowed by the GPL and that is why have the commercial exception. There's an exception clause in LGPL that allows you to do 1 provided that the vendor makes an explicit offer of source code for the portions covered by LGPL and explains to the users that the portions are covered by LGPL in the first place. -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] Re: it case you missed it...
As long as it's not Affero GPL, they really have nothing to worry about. I acutally like GPL more than BSD and other crap. Viral licenses are much better for upstream. On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 5:17 PM, mdipierro mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu wrote: are you talking about the web2py license? Why would a client care? Web2py imposes no restriction on their code. I an write a letter to this effect if at all necessary. Massimo On Dec 11, 10:11 am, G. Clifford Williams g...@notadiscussion.com wrote: I hope so. A different license would certainly help with my fight for adoption by a few clients On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 06:31:15PM -0800, pbreit spake: Did I read correctly that you might evaluate Web2py's license? It does seem like GPL could potentially discourage usage since it makes the code harder to modify. That might be why very few frameworks are GPL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_web_application_frameworks -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] Re: User login in jquery colorbox
Yes exactly. The login should wait for a return value, and do the redirect itself. The server side should issue a redirect only if it knows it's not an ajax request. On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 5:45 PM, Luther Goh Lu Feng elf...@yahoo.com wrote: Yes, you are clearer now. I don't know the answer but maybe your login should be an ajax submission using jquery's ajax calls. Maybe someone with more experience can help. On Dec 12, 12:34 am, pk peter.kirch...@youngdesigners.de wrote: hi, here are the pix. the loginview:http://www.hs-augsburg.de/~pk/pix/login.png after the user submit a redirect works in the colorbox:http://www.hs-augsburg.de/~pk/pix/redirect.png but this redirect should not be shown in the colorbox! i hop it is clearer? thanks peter On 11 Dez., 17:29, Luther Goh Lu Feng elf...@yahoo.com wrote: I would love to help you but I am afraid that I have difficulty understanding your problem. If words fail perhaps some screenshots to tinypic.com can help make your question clearer? On Dec 11, 11:33 pm, pk peter.kirch...@youngdesigners.de wrote: Hi together, it works fine to display the login formular in my jquery colorbox. but now i have a question. if user login successfully, i get a refresh to the userpage in the little colorbox. but i will close the colorbox before refreshing with this js-command: $.colorbox.close() have anybody an idea to solve my problem? thanks peter -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] Re: User login in jquery colorbox
Some more detail on how to do this: Instea of submitting the form, you can trap the onSubmit event, capture the data from the form, and send it manually using a $.post() call. You can specify a callback function in the $.post() call, and then use window.location.replace()[1] to do the redirect. [1] http://programming.top54u.com/Samples/Javascript/Location-Object/Location-Replace/Default.aspx On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 7:58 PM, Branko Vukelic bg.bra...@gmail.com wrote: Yes exactly. The login should wait for a return value, and do the redirect itself. The server side should issue a redirect only if it knows it's not an ajax request. On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 5:45 PM, Luther Goh Lu Feng elf...@yahoo.com wrote: Yes, you are clearer now. I don't know the answer but maybe your login should be an ajax submission using jquery's ajax calls. Maybe someone with more experience can help. On Dec 12, 12:34 am, pk peter.kirch...@youngdesigners.de wrote: hi, here are the pix. the loginview:http://www.hs-augsburg.de/~pk/pix/login.png after the user submit a redirect works in the colorbox:http://www.hs-augsburg.de/~pk/pix/redirect.png but this redirect should not be shown in the colorbox! i hop it is clearer? thanks peter On 11 Dez., 17:29, Luther Goh Lu Feng elf...@yahoo.com wrote: I would love to help you but I am afraid that I have difficulty understanding your problem. If words fail perhaps some screenshots to tinypic.com can help make your question clearer? On Dec 11, 11:33 pm, pk peter.kirch...@youngdesigners.de wrote: Hi together, it works fine to display the login formular in my jquery colorbox. but now i have a question. if user login successfully, i get a refresh to the userpage in the little colorbox. but i will close the colorbox before refreshing with this js-command: $.colorbox.close() have anybody an idea to solve my problem? thanks peter -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] Re: it case you missed it...
On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 9:23 PM, G. Clifford Williams g...@notadiscussion.com wrote: Thanks I appreciate that and I'll surely take you up on that it I think it'll help me win one of these battles. The bottom line is that many commercial entities frown on GPL licensed software. Legal departments go ape when someone brings in new software and 1) it's free and 2) it's GPL'd. For one particular client I'd built a front-end management interface to some system configs (firewalls, software packages, etc... ). This was something they were distributing to their clients as part of a bundle. When told that it would be built with a Python web framework, they assumed it would be Django. When I was done with it and had turned in my documentation they had a fit. I got calls from the CTO asking why I would put them in such a position. They didn't know whether I'd modified anything that was ...part of web2py, and if I had they wanted to know whether it was ...configuration or code. The only GPL'd apps they ship to customers are compiled binaries. They wanted me to 'decouple' what I'd done and submit it for review by their one internal python guy so that he could determine whether anything in my code was 'stolen' from web2py. The legal guys at my company are not able to vet 2 GPL and 2 BSD apps for corporate use after 2 months of research. People are stupid like that. I'm actually quite fascinated about how stupid they get sometimes. You know. M$ gives you a long-ass EULA, and most of it is mumbo-jumbo, and nobody ever questions it. If you look at the EULA for Corel Draw, for example, you find out that you aren't even permitted to use the software for any purpose. It's clearly defined what's allowed and what's not. I'm not talking about where you can or cannot install. It covers shit like what you can DRAW with it. Yet this type of BS makes perfect sense to them. And GPL doesn't. Nobody ever checked stuff I was drawing and vetted them with the legal. And they're taking 2 months just to decide whether I can have Blender and Inkscape installed on my workstation. -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] Re: it case you missed it...
On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 9:49 PM, VP vtp2...@gmail.com wrote: My understanding is this. The apps that you develop with Web2py does not have to be GPL, and can be licensed in any way you want. (I am unsure if this violates GPL's terms or not, but this is what I think how web2py's licensing permits). What is GPL is the web2py framework itself. So, as long as your app does not touch web2py's core and stay within web2py/applications/ yourapp directory, that should be okay. On the other hand, if you want to take web2py add features to it, modify it, then it will have to be GPL. There's one catch, though. If a piece of code is a template that comes with web2py (which means the template code is also GPL), does the template, which is covered by GPL, also prevent you from distributing templates as binary-only. I don't mean HTML etc. Those are static files anyway. I mean the .py templates like the db.py template that is included in the welcome app. When you start off, 100% of your app is comprised of GPL'd code from the welcome app. -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] Re: it case you missed it...
DO WHAT THE SEXUAL INTERCOURSE YOU WANT LICENSE On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 10:31 PM, mdipierro mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu wrote: Yes. That is the license for the welcome app but I think we should phrase a little more professionally. ;-) On Dec 11, 3:16 pm, Bruno Rocha rochacbr...@gmail.com wrote: http://sam.zoy.org/wtfpl/ 2010/12/11 mdipierro mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu You have a good point. The welcome scaffolding app is not GPL. It is pubic domain (no license whatsoever). I have said that before but it is not explicitly stated in the license. I will add a statement to the top of each .py file in the welcome app. Massimo On Dec 11, 2:52 pm, Branko Vukelic bg.bra...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 9:49 PM, VP vtp2...@gmail.com wrote: My understanding is this. The apps that you develop with Web2py does not have to be GPL, and can be licensed in any way you want. (I am unsure if this violates GPL's terms or not, but this is what I think how web2py's licensing permits). What is GPL is the web2py framework itself. So, as long as your app does not touch web2py's core and stay within web2py/applications/ yourapp directory, that should be okay. On the other hand, if you want to take web2py add features to it, modify it, then it will have to be GPL. There's one catch, though. If a piece of code is a template that comes with web2py (which means the template code is also GPL), does the template, which is covered by GPL, also prevent you from distributing templates as binary-only. I don't mean HTML etc. Those are static files anyway. I mean the .py templates like the db.py template that is included in the welcome app. When you start off, 100% of your app is comprised of GPL'd code from the welcome app. -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog:http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio:http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca:http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guildhttp://bit.ly/gbg-group -- Bruno Rochahttp://about.me/rochacbruno/bio -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] Re: it case you missed it...
On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 1:02 AM, pbreit pbreitenb...@gmail.com wrote: For what it's worth, I believe the following is accurate: 1. GPL is more objectionable than BSD/MIT Both GPL and BSD are not well suited to template code, that's the point. 2. Frameworks tend not to use GPL So? -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] Re: it case you missed it...
I think it's better to just remove the favicon. Having a default logo is just as bad as having a web2py logo. On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 5:13 AM, Bruno Rocha rochacbr...@gmail.com wrote: we can have a different favicon following the different logo that welcome has. @branko can suggest one? 2010/12/12 Anthony abasta...@gmail.com as long as the name is changed When using the welcome app, we should require that the web2py favicon be removed -- I keep running into web2py powered sites that display the web2py favicon. Actually, maybe it would be a better idea to simply not include the web2py favicon with the welcome app -- it usually doesn't make sense for sites based on the welcome app to have the web2py favicon. Anthony -- Bruno Rocha http://about.me/rochacbruno/bio -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] Re: Scalability of web2py?
Zotonic is a framework with CMS included. It's actually quite powerful
(and large). It also packs lots of next-gen stuff like websockets and
comet. Comes with freeimage-based image processing capability etc.
Very cool stuff. Of course, my poor excuse for Erlang programming
didn't live up to the challenge of actually mastering Zotonic.
On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 4:30 AM, Albert Abril albert.ab...@gmail.com wrote:
I've been researching about Erlang because Branko comments.
There's a few frameworks, and there is a compare chart:
http://www.chicagoboss.org/compare.html
I get impressed by zotonic. It appears to be a good cms+framework.
On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 2:43 PM, mdipierro mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu wrote:
Yes. eventlet failed the test. OSX 10.6.3 and python 2.6
On Dec 5, 1:34 am, Phyo Arkar phyo.arkarl...@gmail.com wrote:
This discussion becomes not about comparison of scalability of web2py
or scability of web2py vs other framework but web2py vs other
langauges??
massimo wrote:
ab -n 1 -c 100http://127.0.0.1:8081/
rocket: 0.629 [ms]
eventlet:
Massimo , does eventlet failed in that test?
On 12/5/10, mdipierro mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu wrote:
This is supposed to be even better
#http://code.google.com/p/gevent/source/browse/examples/wsgiserver.py
from gevent import wsgi
but cannot install on snow leopard.
Massimo
On Dec 4, 9:19 pm, mdipierro mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu wrote:
I tried this:
#http://eventlet.net/doc/examples.html#wsgi-server
import eventlet
from eventlet import wsgi
from rocket import Rocket
def hello_world(env, start_response):
if env['PATH_INFO'] != '/':
start_response('404 Not Found', [('Content-Type', 'text/
plain')])
return ['Not Found\r\n']
start_response('200 OK', [('Content-Type', 'text/plain')])
return ['Hello, World!\r\n']
if __name__=='__main__':
if True:
r=Rocket(('127.0.0.1',8081),'wsgi', {'wsgi_app':hello_world})
r.start()
else:
wsgi.server(eventlet.listen(('127.0.0.1', 8081)), hello_world)
with
ab -n 1 -c 10http://127.0.0.1:8081/
rocket: 0.618 [ms]
eventlet: 0.443 [ms]
ab -n 1 -c 100http://127.0.0.1:8081/
rocket: 0.629 [ms]
eventlet:
Benchmarking 127.0.0.1 (be patient)
Completed 1000 requests
Test aborted after 10 failures
apr_socket_connect(): Connection reset by peer (54)
Total of 1998 requests completed
On Dec 4, 7:39 pm, Branko Vukelic bg.bra...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 1:59 AM, blackthorne
francisco@gmail.com
wrote:
I've read it while ago.
The problem with that test is the number of processors. It
takes a
high number of CPUs to bring Erlang benefits.
Another 'problem' is that it's not about performance when it comes
to
Erlang. It's about overall robustness. For example, Yaws HTTP
server
may not be the fastest around, but you just cannot kill it. Even if
it
drops a request, it will keep on running, and handling whatever
requests you throw at it. I guess I had that in mind when I said
scalability.
Also, Erlang has software threads, afaik, not hardware CPU threads,
and it manages those internally using a supervisor-worker
architecture. That's something built into the language, and you
mostly
don't have to worry about it.
--
Branko Vukelić
bg.bra...@gmail.com
stu...@brankovukelic.com
Check out my blog:http://www.brankovukelic.com/
Check out my portfolio:http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/
Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/)
I hang out on identi.ca:http://identi.ca/foxbunny
Gimp Brushmakers Guildhttp://bit.ly/gbg-group
--
Branko Vukelić
bg.bra...@gmail.com
stu...@brankovukelic.com
Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/
Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/
Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/)
I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny
Gimp Brushmakers Guild
http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] Re: Interesting fights
It all depends on how many stages you manage to clear. ;) On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 7:29 AM, Bruno Rocha rochacbr...@gmail.com wrote: This remembers me the 3 stages of truth: All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. Arthur Schopenhauer German philosopher (1788 - 1860) 2010/12/9 Anthony abasta...@gmail.com To put things in perspective, even this is getting some downvotes on reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/eihkb/web2py_application_exhibition_version_20/ On Monday, December 6, 2010 8:27:41 PM UTC-5, Anthony wrote: On Dec 6, 7:51 pm, Branko Vukelic bg.b...@gmail.com wrote: Oooh, someone's going legal: For example suing pyjamas. -- Massimo For the record, Redditors, just a typo (suing -- using) -- no one is suing pyjamas. ;) Really? :D Well, I did wink. Actually, there are a few questionable characters on reddit who actively disparage/downvote web2py and Massimo and will happily take things like this out of context. -- Bruno Rocha http://about.me/rochacbruno/bio -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] it case you missed it...
Frankly, DAL is the only thing that kept me from really digging into web2py. I just cannot wrap my brain around it. Could be some malfunction on my part, but still. I'm much happier typing away SQL or having wrapper functions that work almost as if you're typing SQL. The perfect thing for me was web.py's web.db. :) On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 4:12 AM, Bruno Rocha rochacbr...@gmail.com wrote: Very good thread! BTW: Is that tricks on the book? http://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/ej0p1/new_standalone_web2py_database_abstraction_layer/c18hkjf and, I completely agree with the 4th idea here: http://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/ej0p1/new_standalone_web2py_database_abstraction_layer/c18grty But, I like the fact DAL is a single file, for me it is better to be a single file, better to maintain and keep my projects updated. I have a PyGTK program running with SQL.py and I will update this to the new dal.py this weekend, I prefer to update a single file. better if I can do: $easy_install dal 2010/12/10 mdipierro mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu ... we are having some fun over at reddit again: http://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/ej0p1/new_standalone_web2py_database_abstraction_layer/ I am emailing you because you have asked in the past and because other people felt the need to tweet about their own comments: http://friendfeed.com/ericflo/e28441ba/ericflo-on-new-stand-alone-web2py-database I am not asking nor encouraging you to post. I just thought you would be interested about the ongoing discussion. Massimo -- Bruno Rocha http://about.me/rochacbruno/bio -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] Re: when to use ajax
On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 6:24 AM, Phyo Arkar phyo.arkarl...@gmail.com wrote: I use features as needed in each pages. If i can figure out a way to put jqgrid to work hell , i will use full qxd ! http://qx/api/#qx.ui.embed.Html This allows you to create an HTML element you need in order to attach jqgrid. -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] Re: when to use ajax
Sry, the API docs link was from my home server. :P Here's the correct url: http://demo.qooxdoo.org/1.2.x/apiviewer/#qx.ui.embed.Html On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 5:59 PM, Branko Vukelic bg.bra...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 6:24 AM, Phyo Arkar phyo.arkarl...@gmail.com wrote: I use features as needed in each pages. If i can figure out a way to put jqgrid to work hell , i will use full qxd ! http://qx/api/#qx.ui.embed.Html This allows you to create an HTML element you need in order to attach jqgrid. -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] Re: Interesting fights
Nothing scientific. It's just you know... a 'haha' thing. ;) On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 6:58 PM, mdipierro mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu wrote: based on what? On Dec 6, 10:57 am, Branko Vukelic bg.bra...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GBword1=python+programm...http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GBword1=python+programm...http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GBword1=web2py+web+fram...http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GBword1=web2py+web+fram...http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GBword1=web2py+web+fram...http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GBword1=web2py+web+fram...http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GBword1=web2py+web+fram... :) -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog:http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio:http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca:http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guildhttp://bit.ly/gbg-group -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] Re: Interesting fights
Oooh, someone's going legal: For example suing pyjamas. -- Massimo But watch out, the opponent is rich (Internet application). ;) On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 1:04 AM, Anthony abasta...@gmail.com wrote: Awkward timing. Don't let Reddit[1] find out about these fights. :) [1] http://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/edvws/an_often_asked_question_to_which_i_still_dont/c17mxpx On Dec 6, 11:57 am, Branko Vukelic bg.bra...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GBword1=python+programm...http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GBword1=python+programm...http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GBword1=web2py+web+fram...http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GBword1=web2py+web+fram...http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GBword1=web2py+web+fram...http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GBword1=web2py+web+fram...http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GBword1=web2py+web+fram... :) -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog:http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio:http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca:http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guildhttp://bit.ly/gbg-group -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] Re: Interesting fights
On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 2:06 AM, Anthony abasta...@gmail.com wrote: On Dec 6, 7:51 pm, Branko Vukelic bg.bra...@gmail.com wrote: Oooh, someone's going legal: For example suing pyjamas. -- Massimo For the record, Redditors, just a typo (suing -- using) -- no one is suing pyjamas. ;) Really? :D -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] Re: Interesting fights
On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 2:27 AM, Anthony abasta...@gmail.com wrote: On Dec 6, 7:51 pm, Branko Vukelic bg.bra...@gmail.com wrote: Oooh, someone's going legal: For example suing pyjamas. -- Massimo For the record, Redditors, just a typo (suing -- using) -- no one is suing pyjamas. ;) Really? :D Well, I did wink. Actually, there are a few questionable characters on reddit who actively disparage/downvote web2py and Massimo and will happily take things like this out of context. No wonder they attack Massimo. He wanted to sue Pyjamas! (j/k of course, in case someone's sense of humor took a day off) -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] Re: when to use ajax
On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 3:26 AM, Phyo Arkar phyo.arkarl...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks man! i am now going to build a mockup of my app using it! No problem. Good luck! -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] Re: Scalability of web2py?
On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 8:38 AM, Phyo Arkar phyo.arkarl...@gmail.com wrote: If this become a langauge war: Erlang have many scability advantages , yes , but Langauge Looks horrible!! almost as readable as C (in my opinion) Erlang is not just a language. When I say Erlang, I mean Erlang/OTP, and OTP is a huge general-purpose framework for networked applications. So effectively you are still comparing frameworks. Language itself is actually beautiful. I thought it was ugly at first, but I obviously no longer think so. Once you get used to the syntax, you get absorbed in how powerful the language is. -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] Re: Deploying a site powered by web2py.
Oh well... deployment is something you wrestle on your own most of the time. It's just difficult to see what the problem is from outside, that's all. On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 10:49 PM, RyaneD scadzomb...@gmail.com wrote: I really don't mean to be a bother by double posting or seeming needy but I really just need some help with this. I'm completely unable to figure out what is wrong. On Dec 5, 2:08 am, RyaneD scadzomb...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks. These are the only error logs I have. Last 300 Error Log messages in reverse order (newest at the top, oldest at the bottom): [Sun Dec 05 00:57:18 2010] [error] [client 96.38.69.221] File does not exist: /home/scadzomb/public_html/404.shtml [Sun Dec 05 00:57:18 2010] [error] [client 96.38.69.221] File does not exist: /home/scadzomb/public_html/favicon.ico [Sun Dec 05 00:57:18 2010] [error] [client 96.38.69.221] File does not exist: /home/scadzomb/public_html/500.shtml [Sun Dec 05 00:57:07 2010] [error] [client 96.38.69.221] File does not exist: /home/scadzomb/public_html/404.shtml [Sun Dec 05 00:57:07 2010] [error] [client 96.38.69.221] File does not exist: /home/scadzomb/public_html/favicon.ico [Sun Dec 05 00:57:07 2010] [error] [client 96.38.69.221] File does not exist: /home/scadzomb/public_html/500.shtml [Sun Dec 05 00:54:02 2010] [error] [client 96.38.69.221] File does not exist: /home/scadzomb/public_html/404.shtml [Sun Dec 05 00:54:02 2010] [error] [client 96.38.69.221] File does not exist: /home/scadzomb/public_html/favicon.ico [Sun Dec 05 00:54:02 2010] [error] [client 96.38.69.221] File does not exist: /home/scadzomb/public_html/500.shtml [Sun Dec 05 00:53:50 2010] [error] [client 96.38.69.221] File does not exist: /home/scadzomb/public_html/404.shtml [Sun Dec 05 00:53:50 2010] [error] [client 96.38.69.221] File does not exist: /home/scadzomb/public_html/favicon.ico [Sun Dec 05 00:53:50 2010] [error] [client 96.38.69.221] File does not exist: /home/scadzomb/public_html/500.shtml [Sun Dec 05 00:53:45 2010] [error] [client 96.38.69.221] File does not exist: /home/scadzomb/public_html/404.shtml [Sun Dec 05 00:53:45 2010] [error] [client 96.38.69.221] File does not exist: /home/scadzomb/public_html/favicon.ico [Sun Dec 05 00:53:45 2010] [error] [client 96.38.69.221] File does not exist: /home/scadzomb/public_html/500.shtml [Sun Dec 05 00:53:41 2010] [error] [client 96.38.69.221] File does not exist: /home/scadzomb/public_html/404.shtml [Sun Dec 05 00:53:41 2010] [error] [client 96.38.69.221] File does not exist: /home/scadzomb/public_html/favicon.ico [Sun Dec 05 00:53:37 2010] [error] [client 96.38.69.221] File does not exist: /home/scadzomb/public_html/404.shtml [Sun Dec 05 00:53:37 2010] [error] [client 96.38.69.221] File does not exist: /home/scadzomb/public_html/favicon.ico [Sun Dec 05 00:53:37 2010] [error] [client 96.38.69.221] File does not exist: /home/scadzomb/public_html/500.shtml [Sun Dec 05 00:50:59 2010] [error] [client 96.38.69.221] File does not exist: /home/scadzomb/public_html/404.shtml [Sun Dec 05 00:50:59 2010] [error] [client 96.38.69.221] File does not exist: /home/scadzomb/public_html/favicon.ico [Sun Dec 05 00:50:59 2010] [error] [client 96.38.69.221] File does not exist: /home/scadzomb/public_html/500.shtml [Sun Dec 05 00:49:35 2010] [error] [client 96.38.69.221] File does not exist: /home/scadzomb/public_html/404.shtml [Sun Dec 05 00:49:35 2010] [error] [client 96.38.69.221] File does not exist: /home/scadzomb/public_html/favicon.ico [Sun Dec 05 00:49:35 2010] [error] [client 96.38.69.221] File does not exist: /home/scadzomb/public_html/404.shtml Somehow I don't feel like thats the same problem I am seeing. Alright so to break down my file structure: Inside of /home/scadzomb/public_html/ I have, ./web2py/ In the web2py directory I have all the contents of the unzipped and ran once web2py_src.zip I have added .htaccess with - RewriteEngine On RewriteBase / RewriteRule ^web2py\.fcgi/ - [L] RewriteRule ^(.*)$ web2py.fcgi/$1 [L] - I have added routes.py which you can look at here:http://scadzombies.org/documents/routes.py This is a direct copy of the file so you can look at it. And I have web2py.fcgi - #!/home/scadzomb/local/bin/python import sys from flup.server.fcgi_fork import WSGIServer import gluon.main application=gluon.main.wsgibase ## or # application=gluon.main.wsgibase_with_logging WSGIServer(application).run() On Dec 5, 12:52 am, Branko Vukelic bg.bra...@gmail.com wrote: Check the server logs. That usually means there's a bug in your scripts. On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 3:40 AM, RyaneD scadzomb...@gmail.com wrote: I fixed the second problem but the first remains. I had messed up in my implementation of routes.py completely user error, forgot a parenthesis. :P As the traceback says. So that error is gone, but when I navigate towww.scadzombies.org/web2py
Re: [web2py] Re: when to use ajax
I'm going through the examples, reading the docs, playing with the demos. I can say this with great confidence: qooxdoo is the most advanced JavaScript framework ever. It makes others look like they're from 90s. Just take a look at this: http://demo.qooxdoo.org/current/inspector/ This is actually a qooxdoo debugger that loads you stuff in an iframe. While developing, you use the generator scripts that create app skeletons, imports the classes you use in your project, and can 'build' your app in the sense that it will package your application code + dependencies into a single minified JS file for maximum performance. But this beast is just not your usual JS framework. I think You must make a decision about where you want to run your app. Do you build it to run on your server (web2py + most of the JS frameworks), or do you run it inside the clients (qooxdoo + web2py or a simple CGI script even as a mere frontend for the database). With a bit of luck you may successfully build an app entirely in qooxdoo alone, using stuff like DB Relay[1]. [1] http://www.pubbs.net/201007/nginx/41781-db-relay-nginx-based-open-source-project.html On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 9:43 AM, Phyo Arkar phyo.arkarl...@gmail.com wrote: The syntax of qooxdoo is almost java .. On 12/5/10, Phyo Arkar phyo.arkarl...@gmail.com wrote: yes , all your points are good. But jq+jqueryui allows to build something really cool stuff like jqgrid which is superb.I had check and qooxdoo's table is not even half of jqgrid capabilities. I just wish it would be really nice if qooxdoo will support jq's themeroller.. and it will be more than perfect! I am testing qooxdoo and going to put jqGrid and autocomplete plugins in it to see how it fits :) I like both of them. On 12/5/10, Branko Vukelic bg.bra...@gmail.com wrote: It's a framework. It's got its own packaging system, build system, you name it. Very powerful stuff. Plus you get an endless collection of 'stuff' to build your apps with. Amazing. On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 5:35 AM, Phyo Arkar phyo.arkarl...@gmail.com wrote: I just check qooxdoo , it seems very powerful.. What jslib it based on? jq? mootoo? or nothing at all? On 12/5/10, Phyo Arkar phyo.arkarl...@gmail.com wrote: Why nobody uses JQUI ? http://jqueryui.com yes extJS and other UI frameworks have already build UIs , but if you want to build something from scratch jqui provide you all the stuff you need. It have very powerful CSS Framework. I found it very easy/productive to use, and themeroller rocks! On 12/5/10, Branko Vukelic bg.bra...@gmail.com wrote: OMG! I'm definitely using this for admin2! I've just started the Hello World tutorial. I can't believe the attention it's been given... /me drops jaw On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 12:07 AM, Branko Vukelic bg.bra...@gmail.com wrote: Awesome feature set. On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 11:31 PM, Mengu whalb...@gmail.com wrote: instead of extjs i can happily recommend you using qooxdoo. see: http://qooxdoo.org On Dec 3, 11:10 pm, Branko Vukelic bg.bra...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 7:04 PM, ron_m ron.mco...@gmail.com wrote: I would be careful on the licensing of Ext JS, wasn't this the one that caused some concerns a couple of years ago when they switched as they became popular with the GWT users? They require you to release your _application_ code if you want to use Ext.JS with open-source license. It's kind of like GPL on steroids. :) Btw, I've been using Mootools for a while. Very pythonic. I absolutely love it. -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog:http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio:http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca:http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guildhttp://bit.ly/gbg-group -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com
Re: [web2py] Re: when to use ajax
On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 4:46 AM, Phyo Arkar phyo.arkarl...@gmail.com wrote: I agree all the awesomeness and powerfulness of qxd but as i has been spoiled by jQuery and i hated java with a passion [I had to use java all previous years for a IP-Camera project ,i developed an UDP Hole punching + UPNP firewall punching + IRC Communicateble agent for camera and browser (Applet) ] I found syntax of qxd , unacceptable for a moment. I've learned some time ago, that appearances are deceiving. You miss out on a lot of fun if you concern yourself with such things as syntax. Erlang has a syntax that looks rather scary at first glance, but underneath that appearance you find one of the most advanced programming languages today. I will try to learn it when i have spare time. Just so you know, the example twitter app is now broken because of the twitter API change. They almost promised the app won't be fixed any time soon, because the fix requires the mandatory Oauth, which would make a tutorial on its own. One thing what its hard about it is , i dont know how to implement normal HTML stuff inside it You don't. :) qxd is for fat-client apps, and you don't need much HTML there. I actually fully agree with this. If you want to make a desktop-like application, you really don't need to worry about CSS nad HTML. You need a standard way to create windows, add buttons, and the actual looks are mere skins (just like GTK or QT themes). Yes my application , developing currently really need UI Framework like that. It is completely a web application , which need desktop like features. i am even thinking i may use flex for it in next version. It is a Forensic File indexing and search engine + Review platform. Sounds like a job for qooxdoo. :P Believe me, if you go into larger (or even medium size) apps where you have multiple types of windows, each with tons of different widgets, keeping stuff organized the way they are organized in qooxdoo (i.e., well) is a great speed-up, especially if you take into account the namespace issues, asynchronous execution, etc. You just don't want to mess with these things. I thought Dojo was a good thing at the beginning, but even that gets out of hand at some point because it lacks the organizational structure to support your UI. qxd even has 3rd party GUI designers[1] available thanks thanks to its great organization of code. Also, take a look at one of the real-life examples of qooxdoo in action. It's GMX[2], a free e-mail service. I've signed up to see what it's like, and I was pretty amazed by how well it works considering it's all JavaScript-driven and all. [1] http://qxrad.sourceforge.net/ [2] http://www.gmx.com/ -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] Re: when to use ajax
On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 5:20 AM, Phyo Arkar phyo.arkarl...@gmail.com wrote: So it seems that it will need to hack around pretty much to put jqGrid inside one of the qooxdoo window. as jqGrid need an element with an id which can be slected by jquery. What's the deal with jqGrid? There's a qxd grid, too. Maybe you could use that. http://demo.qooxdoo.org/current/demobrowser/#table~Table.html Pretty awesome isn't it? :) Since it's a widget, you can bind data to it so it fills in from a remote source (called store in qxd). So you basically set up a store, and use the controller to glue the store to the table, in an event-driven manner if you please. -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] Re: Time to relax, off topic - Simple IQ Testing.
On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 2:50 PM, villas villa...@gmail.com wrote: Who can propose minimum lines to re-factor Massimo's code? Of course two lines to be included somewhere must be: x=[(2,3,10),(7,2,63),(6,5,66),(8,4,96)] a,b = 9,7 Please first state your number of lines and then be prepared to release your code as open source later :) You have to beat my 9 lines so far! Something here reminds me of that I just need a programmer thread. -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] Re: I Just Need a Programmer
Nothing that can be talked about without braking the NDA, I'm afraid. :) On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 1:29 PM, ma...@rockiger.com rocki...@googlemail.com wrote: By the way, any interesting business ideas here in the web2py-world? Marco On 3 Dez., 15:46, mdipierro mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu wrote: I do not think there is a lack of ideas not a lack of execution capabilities. The problem is that the more interesting projects require a critical mass of users to start. Think about this... you walk by a restaurant and it is empty. It does not matter how good the restaurant look and how attractive the menu looks. If it is empty you do not go in. Same with software project. You need to buy your critical mass of users. The more ambitious, the larger the critical mass. If you start too small and takes too long to grow, please will copy your project. Buying users cost money. Companies buy each other mostly because they want to buy theirs clients, not the technologies or the ideas. The want to sell their own ideas and technologies to the clients of the acquired company. Massimo On Dec 3, 2:20 pm, Branko Vukelic bg.bra...@gmail.com wrote: I think it's the same with designers, actually, and they are _expected_ to be creative. But once you're in the industry, so little of it is actually demanded. On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 6:54 PM, Jason Brower encomp...@gmail.com wrote: Personally, I see the other way. So many programmers, so little creativity. On Thu, 2010-12-02 at 19:14 -0800, mdipierro wrote: http://www.cs.uni.edu/~wallingf/blog/archives/monthly/2010-12.html#e2... -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog:http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio:http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca:http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guildhttp://bit.ly/gbg-group -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
[web2py] Timepicker
Since we've discussed the topic of timepickers before, I've just stumbled upon a very good solution from the Dojo camp. Here's a demo. http://www-01.ibm.com/software/ucd/UE/dijit/tests/form/test_TimeTextBox.html?theme=claro Except for the minor visual noise in the form of emphasized hundred hours spots, I think it's overall a great solution. Of course, it's a Dojo widget, so it would have to be ported to jQuery, although I personally find Dojo much more pleasant than jQuery. -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] Re: Time to relax, off topic - Simple IQ Testing.
On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 11:09 PM, dustin.b dustin.bens...@googlemail.com wrote: took me a while to find my calculator(behind my desk) cuz im not that bright at mental math ... til ... i realized im sitting in front of one .. doohh did that indicate my intelligence ? :D 'hope not! :) did python(usage) indicate some kind of intelligence? i hear employers like that kind of skill, even they seach for java(etc. ) coders :) Well, took me almost 5 minutes WITH a calculator... What can I say... But I have a good excuse: I'm a graphic designer. :P -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] Re: when to use ajax
Awesome feature set. On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 11:31 PM, Mengu whalb...@gmail.com wrote: instead of extjs i can happily recommend you using qooxdoo. see: http://qooxdoo.org On Dec 3, 11:10 pm, Branko Vukelic bg.bra...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 7:04 PM, ron_m ron.mco...@gmail.com wrote: I would be careful on the licensing of Ext JS, wasn't this the one that caused some concerns a couple of years ago when they switched as they became popular with the GWT users? They require you to release your _application_ code if you want to use Ext.JS with open-source license. It's kind of like GPL on steroids. :) Btw, I've been using Mootools for a while. Very pythonic. I absolutely love it. -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog:http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio:http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca:http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guildhttp://bit.ly/gbg-group -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] Re: when to use ajax
OMG! I'm definitely using this for admin2! I've just started the Hello World tutorial. I can't believe the attention it's been given... /me drops jaw On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 12:07 AM, Branko Vukelic bg.bra...@gmail.com wrote: Awesome feature set. On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 11:31 PM, Mengu whalb...@gmail.com wrote: instead of extjs i can happily recommend you using qooxdoo. see: http://qooxdoo.org On Dec 3, 11:10 pm, Branko Vukelic bg.bra...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 7:04 PM, ron_m ron.mco...@gmail.com wrote: I would be careful on the licensing of Ext JS, wasn't this the one that caused some concerns a couple of years ago when they switched as they became popular with the GWT users? They require you to release your _application_ code if you want to use Ext.JS with open-source license. It's kind of like GPL on steroids. :) Btw, I've been using Mootools for a while. Very pythonic. I absolutely love it. -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog:http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio:http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca:http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guildhttp://bit.ly/gbg-group -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] Re: Scalability of web2py?
On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 1:59 AM, blackthorne francisco@gmail.com wrote: I've read it while ago. The problem with that test is the number of processors. It takes a high number of CPUs to bring Erlang benefits. Another 'problem' is that it's not about performance when it comes to Erlang. It's about overall robustness. For example, Yaws HTTP server may not be the fastest around, but you just cannot kill it. Even if it drops a request, it will keep on running, and handling whatever requests you throw at it. I guess I had that in mind when I said scalability. Also, Erlang has software threads, afaik, not hardware CPU threads, and it manages those internally using a supervisor-worker architecture. That's something built into the language, and you mostly don't have to worry about it. -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] Re: when to use ajax
The difference between frameworks like Dojo, qooxdoo, extJS on one hand, and jQUI on the other is that the former are complete GUI toolkits, whereas jQUI is a mere collection widgets. It's a difference between plastic surgery and makeup. Some of the stuff jQUI is missing: * coross-browser form elements (as in looks the same and works the same across browsers) * panels and layout modules * menu bars and context menus * tree view * i18 and l10 * (your favourite feature here) What is worse is that jQUI is not even trying to get there. And before someone points out a 3rd party plugin that does all of above, my experience is that such features are better when they are supported by the main developers. Supported packages tend to be of higher quality and bugs get squatted faster. So unless jQUI becomes a GUI toolkit, I don't think jQuery will be a good choice for rapid development of fat-clients. On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 5:23 AM, Phyo Arkar phyo.arkarl...@gmail.com wrote: Why nobody uses JQUI ? http://jqueryui.com yes extJS and other UI frameworks have already build UIs , but if you want to build something from scratch jqui provide you all the stuff you need. It have very powerful CSS Framework. I found it very easy/productive to use, and themeroller rocks! On 12/5/10, Branko Vukelic bg.bra...@gmail.com wrote: OMG! I'm definitely using this for admin2! I've just started the Hello World tutorial. I can't believe the attention it's been given... /me drops jaw On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 12:07 AM, Branko Vukelic bg.bra...@gmail.com wrote: Awesome feature set. On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 11:31 PM, Mengu whalb...@gmail.com wrote: instead of extjs i can happily recommend you using qooxdoo. see: http://qooxdoo.org On Dec 3, 11:10 pm, Branko Vukelic bg.bra...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 7:04 PM, ron_m ron.mco...@gmail.com wrote: I would be careful on the licensing of Ext JS, wasn't this the one that caused some concerns a couple of years ago when they switched as they became popular with the GWT users? They require you to release your _application_ code if you want to use Ext.JS with open-source license. It's kind of like GPL on steroids. :) Btw, I've been using Mootools for a while. Very pythonic. I absolutely love it. -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog:http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio:http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca:http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guildhttp://bit.ly/gbg-group -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
Re: [web2py] Re: when to use ajax
It's a framework. It's got its own packaging system, build system, you name it. Very powerful stuff. Plus you get an endless collection of 'stuff' to build your apps with. Amazing. On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 5:35 AM, Phyo Arkar phyo.arkarl...@gmail.com wrote: I just check qooxdoo , it seems very powerful.. What jslib it based on? jq? mootoo? or nothing at all? On 12/5/10, Phyo Arkar phyo.arkarl...@gmail.com wrote: Why nobody uses JQUI ? http://jqueryui.com yes extJS and other UI frameworks have already build UIs , but if you want to build something from scratch jqui provide you all the stuff you need. It have very powerful CSS Framework. I found it very easy/productive to use, and themeroller rocks! On 12/5/10, Branko Vukelic bg.bra...@gmail.com wrote: OMG! I'm definitely using this for admin2! I've just started the Hello World tutorial. I can't believe the attention it's been given... /me drops jaw On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 12:07 AM, Branko Vukelic bg.bra...@gmail.com wrote: Awesome feature set. On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 11:31 PM, Mengu whalb...@gmail.com wrote: instead of extjs i can happily recommend you using qooxdoo. see: http://qooxdoo.org On Dec 3, 11:10 pm, Branko Vukelic bg.bra...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 7:04 PM, ron_m ron.mco...@gmail.com wrote: I would be careful on the licensing of Ext JS, wasn't this the one that caused some concerns a couple of years ago when they switched as they became popular with the GWT users? They require you to release your _application_ code if you want to use Ext.JS with open-source license. It's kind of like GPL on steroids. :) Btw, I've been using Mootools for a while. Very pythonic. I absolutely love it. -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog:http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio:http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca:http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guildhttp://bit.ly/gbg-group -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group -- Branko Vukelić bg.bra...@gmail.com stu...@brankovukelic.com Check out my blog: http://www.brankovukelic.com/ Check out my portfolio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxbunny/ Registered Linux user #438078 (http://counter.li.org/) I hang out on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/foxbunny Gimp Brushmakers Guild http://bit.ly/gbg-group
