Re: WWDC
On Mar 29, 2007, at 12:29 PM, Chuck Hill wrote: There are lots of cheaper, decent hotels around Union Square. Just Google for "hotel union square san francisco". Has anyone tried the Hotel Mark Twain? It's a bit less expensive and is near Union Square. The reviews online are very mixed - people seem to either love it or hate it. janine ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
How to tell what WO version is installed?
Hi all, I'm trying to figure out how to figure out what version of WO has been installed on a system. I tried looking in /Library/Reciepts, where I have the following packages: WebObjects5.3.3Update.pkg WebObjectsDevelopment.pkg WebObjectsDocumentation.pkg WebObjectsExamples.pkg WebObjectsRuntime.pkg I've looked at version.plist in all of them. With the exception of the 5.3.3 package, they all have CFBundleShortVersionString set to 1.0.0, so I must not be looking in the right place. Any pointers? thanks, janine ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: session timeouts
Done! :) janine On Sep 12, 2006, at 12:42 PM, Jerry W. Walker wrote: Hi, Janine, If you want the Apple Store folks to hear you, try clicking on the "Contact Us" link on the bottom of the web site page. There's a small box on the lower right corner of the resulting page that says "Website Feedback" You might even send Gary's code, that would wake them up. :-) Regards, Jerry On Sep 12, 2006, at 3:18 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks, Gary. Apple Store, are you listening :) janine On Sep 12, 2006, at 12:14 PM, Gary Teter wrote: Yes, you can set the timeout on a session. I typically set the timeout to something short, like 10 minutes, until a customer puts something into their cart, at which point I set it to an hour. Once they've placed an order, we set it back to 10 minutes. session().setTimeOut(Application.LongSessionTimeOut); session().setTimeOut(WOApplication.application().sessionTimeOut ().doubleValue()); On Sep 12, 2006, at 12:03 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know that it is possible to set the session timeout to a very large number so the user is unlikely to ever see a session time out. Is it also possible to change it dynamically, so that once the user starts to check out they will never see a timeout message? Is there a typical/recommended way of handling this, so the user is not unduly inconvenienced by timeouts? -- WireHose: Smart metadata and personalization for WebObjects. http://www.wirehose.com/ ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/jerrywwalker% 40gmail.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- __ Jerry W. Walker, WebObjects Developer/Instructor for High Performance Industrial Strength Internet Enabled Systems [EMAIL PROTECTED] 203 278-4085office ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: session timeouts
Thanks, Gary. Apple Store, are you listening :) janine On Sep 12, 2006, at 12:14 PM, Gary Teter wrote: Yes, you can set the timeout on a session. I typically set the timeout to something short, like 10 minutes, until a customer puts something into their cart, at which point I set it to an hour. Once they've placed an order, we set it back to 10 minutes. session().setTimeOut(Application.LongSessionTimeOut); session().setTimeOut(WOApplication.application().sessionTimeOut ().doubleValue()); On Sep 12, 2006, at 12:03 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know that it is possible to set the session timeout to a very large number so the user is unlikely to ever see a session time out. Is it also possible to change it dynamically, so that once the user starts to check out they will never see a timeout message? Is there a typical/recommended way of handling this, so the user is not unduly inconvenienced by timeouts? -- WireHose: Smart metadata and personalization for WebObjects. http://www.wirehose.com/ ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
session timeouts
I just placed an order with the Apple Store (new iPods, woohoo! :) and had an experience I want to make sure *does not happen* to anyone in the sites I plan to build using WO. The site is loading slowly (understandable on a day like today) so I would click, then go off to do something else while the page loaded. This meant it took me a while to get the items in my shopping cart. I then went to checkout, and in the middle of entering my payment info my session timed out. Aieee! Thankfully the items were still in my cart so I didn't have to start *all* over, but still in my opinion that is an unacceptable behavior of the site. I know that it is possible to set the session timeout to a very large number so the user is unlikely to ever see a session time out. Is it also possible to change it dynamically, so that once the user starts to check out they will never see a timeout message? Is there a typical/recommended way of handling this, so the user is not unduly inconvenienced by timeouts? thanks, janine ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: A newbie feeling about WO Developpers sta te of mind…
On Aug 28, 2006, at 12:31 PM, Ken Anderson wrote: Please everyone, stop whining about Apple. I, for one, am very pleased with the state of things. People have been predicting all sorts of things for WebObjects over the years, and the one thing that has always come true is that it keeps being used by more and more people, especially Apple! Hear, hear! Don't forget that the turnout at the WO sessions this year astounded everyone, including the folks from Apple. In the session that was billed as "Java and WebObjects" the speaker asked how many people were there to hear about Java without WebObjects, clearly thinking that that explained the size of the crowd, but very few people raised their hands. Also, I have noticed a definite up-trend in posts for jobs using WO, and David quit his day job to focus on WO consulting because he had so much work coming in. I don't really know why we are seeing this resurgence, but I feel it's real and we should be encouraging people to stick around and catch the wave, rather than scaring them off with doom and gloom. janine ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: Looks like ThinkSecret got some of the scoop on WO from WWDC'06
Joe is correct. However, I don't think it's the case that Apple does not intend to write any more WO documentation at all; there was at least one WO tech writer at the feedback session and she talked to someone who mentioned a documentation problem. I can't remember what it was, so I couldn't disclose it if I wanted to. :) I didn't get any impression at all that they were not planning to keep writing docs for the code they provide. janine On Aug 28, 2006, at 10:00 AM, Joe Little wrote: On 8/28/06, Ashley Aitken <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I think there is close to zero (very close to zero ;-) chance that Apple will rewrite any of the WebObjects documentation to include the open source community tools. I think there is almost zero (somewhat near zero ;-) chance that Apple will write any more general documentation for WebObjects (besides the API docs generated by JavaDoc). I don't think Apple is going to exert any effort to develop "new" WebObjects developers, but obviously won't mind if the community does. Of course, Apple may do otherwise but if they don't then I think this is a clear message about how Apple values WebObjects and sees its future. I'll weigh in here and say that I pointedly asked this question of documentation of the "other" tools (WOLips/Eclipse/EntityModeler) and if the documentation writer at Apple would still be involved in this transition. It was made clear to me that it would need to be a community based effort, not an Apple one. Since the answer was concerning what the community needs to do, I feel this was meant to be disclosed. Cheers, Ashley. -- Ashley Aitken Perth, Western Australia mrhatken at mac dot com Skype Name: MrHatken (GMT + 8 Hours!) ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/jmlittle% 40gmail.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/womail%40mac.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: WebObjects 5.4 going open source
I highly doubt it. For one thing, I didn't hear any "hints" in this direction at WWDC. And the article says that "Apple is also in the process of modernizing WebObjects, moving some capabilities to Xcode 2.4" while we all now know that that is a direction they started in and now have abandoned. So the kindest thing one could say is that their facts are out of date.janineOn Aug 25, 2006, at 5:38 PM, Gaastra Dennis - WO Lists wrote:Is it finally true?http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0608webobjects.html With Kind Regards,Dennis Gaastra, M.B.A.[sfu.ca], B.Sc.[ubc.ca]Chief Technology Officer,WEBAPPZ Systems, Inc.HQ: (+1) 604.921.1333Fax: (+1) 604.921.4313Cell: (+1) 604.787.2532Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Web: www.webappz.com & www.1tracker.comThis message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. WEBAPPZ Systems, Inc., 726 - 1489 Marine Drive, West Vancouver, BC, CANADA V7T 1B8, www.webappz.com ___Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/womail%40mac.comThis email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: Reusable translated button
On Aug 22, 2006, at 5:12 PM, Anjo Krank wrote: Which is why I think that Bill Bumgarner was totally wrong last year: Wonder *is* exactly for beginners. You may have problems, or you may not understand 5% or it. But it contains 99% of what you will build for yourself if left on your own, only that it works. That may very well be. But you can't have it both ways - either it's for beginners, and therefore needs documenting, or it's for gurus and doesn't. It's all very well to talk about how easy and obvious it should be to use, but the reality is obviously different for many of us mere mortals, considering how often I've seen people be totally mystified about how to even start using it. Maybe it's true that once people start to use it they figure it out right away, but the lack of documentation will keep many people from ever getting started. Maybe a class by class document isn't necessary, but a strong overview of what it does, and detailed instructions on how to get started using it, are key if you really want this to be useful for beginners. janine ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: Reusable translated button
On Aug 22, 2006, at 3:59 PM, Jerry W. Walker wrote: So now that I've gotten the rant out of my system, I will try to offer one to two hours per day for the next several days (years) to supplement the PW ERExtensions JavaDocs and the ERExtensions wiki page if anyone on the PW team will offer me support for my doing so. Very cool! I can attest to Jerry's writing abilities; he has written some amazing answers to questions I have asked. And this is very much needed. Jerry, when you've decided to go for it, don't forget to add a bullet point here: http://www.objectstyle.org/confluence/display/WOCOM/Projects+currently +underway thanks! janine ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: WebObjects Foundation
On Aug 22, 2006, at 11:02 AM, Pascal Robert wrote: Actually, I think writing a new WO app for the community site will not be hard. For a start, we only need an admin with textarea boxes with TinyMCE to update the pages. It's cheap, but it can be done really fast. If you're thinking along those lines, which is fine with me, you should probably get hosting from one of the people who offered Xserve space. My servers are currently all running Linux (I'm new here, we haven't switched over yet :) and you probably don't want the added headache of deploying a WO app there. Though I'm still willing to do it, and help get it working, if you want to do it for the experience. janine ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: WebObjects Foundation [ Why we should try!?]
On Aug 22, 2006, at 11:32 AM, Marc Oesch wrote: Janine just started such a page here... Thanks - we posted this at the same time. :) I just want to repeat that wishes are not turned into reality by magic, so it would be best if the various proponents become promoters and start working on stuff actively. That's a good way to put it. In a situation such as this, with no organized leadership to speak of, one of two things generally happens. Either everyone throws out ideas but nothing actually gets done (most common) or people start working independently on the things they feel are most important. Ideally, there are enough like-minded people that others will join them and subgroups form that are focused on working on the tasks they are most interested in. Sometimes it goes badly, with too many projects started so that there are not enough people available to join them all and they stay chronically understaffed. This is not good, for obvious reasons. To put us on the most productive path, it would be best to see a few projects get started, and then everyone who wants to chip in should look at those first, and only start their own project if they don't see anything that appeals to them. To this end, I am going to add a note to the "projects currently underway" page encouraging people to include whether they are looking for help in their project description. janine ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: Why we should try!?
On Aug 22, 2006, at 11:13 AM, Ricardo Strausz wrote: wodev had been absorbed by wikipedia (which I consider a nice move), so let us do a non-encyclopaedic wiki; just an informal one which announce to us the running projects' status, with their respective links. That was the idea behind this page: http://www.objectstyle.org/confluence/display/WOCOM/Projects+currently +underway You can add to it if you like. janine ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: stuck on a WO island
There has been a lot of talk over the last few days about how we should be using WO-based tools for our WO sites. While I don't think it is really all *that* important, obviously some do. So I would think there would be some interest out there. Could you set up a demo copy that we could play with, or assist someone else in doing so? Also, I would be interested to hear you and/or Chuck explain how this compares to or is different from GVC Sitemaker. I have not had time to play with that yet so I could be totally wrong, but it seems to me that they are similar. janine On Aug 13, 2006, at 8:59 PM, james o wrote: i've been stuck on my WO developer island for a while now and would like to reach out to other developers that might be interested in contributing and benefiting from the use of some of my WO projects. in time, i would like to release the code as open source and we can benefit as consultants with some pre-built web based solutions. PROJECT 1: PWDA.com (professional web design assistant) PWDA is a content management system that my design studio (http:// primaxstudio.com) utilizes to create websites for some of our customers. i *know* i'm not the best coder and really could use some bright more knowledgeable developers to help take this project and my level of WO understanding to the next level by creating a CMS system that any WO developer could implement and benefit from. what does PWDA currently do? -makes web sites/pages based on components. components are items like text areas, pictures, movies, slideshows, news, calendars, lists, etc... -simple calendaring -simple news/blogging -users and group control; pages, news, calendars -themes for pages including CSS and JS -reusable "module" type pages -project management system -eLearning engine w/flash audio/video -file manager what's planned -WYSWYG text editor (partially developed) -CRM (in progress) -eCommerce (in progress) -forms -XML output/RSS feeds -java desktop app for entering blog type news, calendar, text items. -ajax page/component editing -and a good amount of other features... some sites built with PWDA: http://primaxSTUDIO.com http://goshenlocalschools.org http://effortboards.com http://suburbanrails.com * http://peterwalkermusic.com http://silversunpickups.com http://www.emmettartshow.com ** http://waumbacamp.com/ http://trek.pwda.com http://hernbuilders.com/ http://libertytruckequipment.com *reason #1 i don't have much time **reason #2 i really don't have any time PROJECT 2: WOCode.com - WOCode is my first WebObjects project and desperately needs someone to take it by the hand and lead it in the future. i feel with some help WOCode could be a great repository and learning tool for the community. what does WOCode currently do: -accepts WO projects, code samples and shares them with the community what's planned: -nothing... i'll share some other projects/applications in the future if this actually gets off the ground. i guess i could also be off my rocker and nobody really has any interest in these projects?! no big deal, just had to ask. if you have any comments please feel free to share them. my feelings won't be hurt. thanks for your time, ./james ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/womail%40mac.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: WebObjects Foundation
On Aug 21, 2006, at 8:27 PM, M. Blanc wrote: May I sugest Pier instead? Pier is written in Smalltalk —the inspiration behind Objective-C— and based on Seaside, an application server originally inspired in WebObjects, so we are cousins. It is also simple enough to install and, even better, to migrate from one server to another if needed. I don't have a strong preference myself, but since Pascal has taken the initiative to design a community web site (which is very nice, btw) and is offering to help run the CMS, I think he should be able to choose which one we use. So I'll leave this up to him. janine ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: WebObjects Foundation
On Aug 21, 2006, at 7:16 PM, Pascal Robert wrote: I tried Magnolia a year and half ago, I really like it. We can get it to run in 15 minutes. Anyone want to host it ? It's a good alternative until we use a WO CMS. I can provide hosting space if Pascal can get it set up (I've never installed Magnolia and I'm really busy at the moment). Or if one of the other people who volunteered space before really wants to do it, that's ok too. janine ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: WebObjects Foundation
On Aug 21, 2006, at 12:04 PM, Chuck Hill wrote: At present, the source is open but the development is not. We (GVC) are acting as gatekeepers to maintain the integrity of the design and source. A wise move. Although fully open source is a great goal, the reality is that it's very risky if your business relies on the software moving in a certain direction. Open source communities have a way of taking sharp left turns, which go to very interesting places but not necessarily anywhere you needed to go for your business needs. FYI, I have heard this referred to as "source available" rather than "open source". janine ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: New WO Wiki started ! [Re: Lets Start doing it]
This is great, Marc, thanks! I added a new page for "projects currently underway" instead of adding it to the "future plans and ideas" page. I didn't want there to be any confusion about which was which, and the future plans page is already quite long. We also need to put some explanatory text on the home page, which currently says "This is the home page for the WOCommunity space. You can edit the content of this page using the Edit link on the right.". I can't work on it right now, but I will take a stab at it soon if no-one else gets to it first. janine On Aug 21, 2006, at 3:03 AM, Marc Oesch wrote: Hello, Ok, following Pascal's post, I tried to get this effort started with 3 simple pages here http://www.objectstyle.org/confluence/display/WOCOM/WO+Resources+and +Ideas I simply browsed the lists and added the stuff from my bookmark lists as discussed before: 1. Links to existing WO content - so that new efforts hopefully aren't duplicated, wasted 2. Links to work in progress since WWDC 2006 3. Links to additional ideas, brainstorming This is nowhere complete and obviously there needs to be a better Wiki structure etc. I will also remove mail addresses in another go from my copy-paste later to protect from spam. This was just to get things *started* instead of additional discussions as in the thread title :) ! The good people at ObjectStyle already have a good Wiki (based on Confluence), Thanks to Andrus for setting the space up. He told me you can open accounts for the new Wiki here http://www.objectstyle.org/jira/ These can be used across the ObjectStyle site. Marc ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/womail%40mac.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: WebObjects Foundation
On Aug 17, 2006, at 10:12 AM, Chuck Hill wrote: On Aug 16, 2006, at 11:15 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: herding cats Like this: http://video.google.com/videoplay? docid=7635587316493151891 Yes, exactly! As far as I'm concerned that is the Best. Superbowl. Ad. Ever. Except for one small problem - I can never remember who the ad was for after I watch it. :) Of course, it could have been even funnier if it had been made after Brokeback Mountain instead of before... :))) janine ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: WebObjects Foundation
On Aug 16, 2006, at 11:28 AM, Chuck Hill wrote: If people generally think this is a good idea, then maybe we should ask for volunteers? We only need 3 or 4 people, I think, since the task will be mostly answering procedural questions and giving people the confidence that they can move forward on something that will benefit the project. I am willing to be one of the members, though it seems a bit improper to volunteer when it was my idea. :) :-) I will also volunteer my time. Excellent, thanks! Does anyone else want to volunteer to be one of the Project Mangers (feel free to suggest a new name, that one sounds too much like Damagement :). For now the duties will be limited to helping to provide organization and direction for the rest of our volunteers, also known as herding cats janine ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: WebObjects Foundation
Sounds like a great thing for you to put on the "tasks in progress" page once I have it created. I am still on vacation, so it could be next week before I get that taken care of. There are just not enough hours in the day! janine On Aug 16, 2006, at 2:02 PM, Joe Little wrote: I'm unsure if this warrants an "elders" role, but at WWDC and since I've talked with various people about deployments. In some shape or form I'll volunteer to lead the rpm/deb/pkg/depot/etc packaging (or recipes, if license is not permitting) of the jars, wotaskd, javamonitor, and webobjects adaptor. I can help collect the info for servlet deployment, but I've never done it nor wish to use servlets as my deployment engine. On 8/16/06, Chuck Hill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Aug 16, 2006, at 12:41 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > On Aug 15, 2006, at 4:31 PM, Chuck Hill wrote: > >> What we don't need is for most people to sit on the sidelines and >> wait around for the few to conjure up the future of WebObjects. >> To get the most people involved, we need to have the lowest >> barriers to participation possible. > > I have been following the discussion today via my Treo, and also > thinking about the situation we are in. I have a couple of > suggestions to toss out for discussion: > > Despite my assertion from yesterday that we can't form a Foundation > out of thin air, I do think we need some leadership soon. We are > already seeing people posting to the list asking what would be > useful to do and where they should put it, and someone really > should be designated to answer those questions with some > consistency. I think we need a very informal Core Team, one that > doesn't make any major decisions but just helps keep people moving > in productive directions. Perhaps Project Managers would be a > better name for it. We will eventually need a real Core Team with > elections and everything if this gets off the ground, but IMHO > that's unnecessary overhead at this point. > > If people generally think this is a good idea, then maybe we should > ask for volunteers? We only need 3 or 4 people, I think, since the > task will be mostly answering procedural questions and giving > people the confidence that they can move forward on something that > will benefit the project. I am willing to be one of the members, > though it seems a bit improper to volunteer when it was my idea. :) :-) I will also volunteer my time. > My second suggestion is that I think we should have an area of the > wiki where people can post a description of what community > contribution they are working on. It doesn't obligate them to > produce or else, nor do they have to give a timeframe; it's just > so we can avoid duplication of effort and people can offer their > assistance if their task is already being worked on by someone > else. For example, I would post that I am going to write an > Eclipse/WOLips tutorial, with a short description of what it will > cover, so people will know it's being taken care of. If I get busy > and can't get to it, it's my responsibility to update the Wiki and > either say it's being delayed, or remove it altogether. That is a good idea. We are most certainly lacking in direction and organization at present. We could also list things that need to be done and ask for volunteers to take on the task. > Thoughts? I don't want to over-burden us with process, but I also > know that if people are just milling around with no direction, in > the end very little actually gets done. Amen. -- Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific problems.http://www.global-village.net/products/ practical_webobjects ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/jmlittle% 40gmail.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: whywebobjects.org - WWDC followup [and URLs]
I currently use getoutandwo.com for my "learning WO" blog, which hasn't seen much action lately. I would be willing to donate that for use with one of the sites if enough people like it. I will still have my blog, but it doesn't really have to have it's own domain name; it could just as well use it's Typepad URL. janine On Aug 16, 2006, at 2:25 PM, Mark Morris wrote: Yes, that one's good! ;-) However, we may be mixing up two (or more!) conversations here. whywebobjects is meant to be a WO advocacy site, with comparisons, testimonials, links to sites and companies using WO, etc. I got the domain names (whywebobjects.org, .net, and .info) last year, and sent an email to the group for suggestions back then, but when I didn't get any, I let it languish with just a placeholder page (which also asked for suggestions ;-). The topic arose again just before WWDC, and this time there was lively discussion, which I'm sure will shame me into being a more active caretaker. (Already I've just received some offers of help and wiki hosting.) whywebobjects.org will be separate from the site containing code, techniques, downloads, etc. (Although I'm sure they will link to each other.) One name related question we can decide on is which TLD we want as the primary name (the one the others redirect to). whywebobjects.org is good, but I also like whywebobjects.info. (Or does anybody prefer whywebobjects.net? Not my favorite, though.) Thoughts? Regards, Mark On Aug 16, 2006, at 4:04 PM, Joe Little wrote: I still think WebObjectsAnonynmous is the best :) (woa.org) On 8/16/06, Pascal Robert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Le 06-08-16, à 15:23, Marc Oesch a écrit : > Hello, > >> We had talk about building a bigger site and integrating the content >> from WhyWebObjects to this site. > > Did you already decide on a URL ? > > If not, what about WebObjectsWorld.xyz or WoW! for short. Just an idea. > [the exclamation mark would distinguish it from the popular game]. That's a good name :-) Or maybe "WebObjects' Not Rails" or "WND" ? :-P >> I'm working on a prototype, I hope to get something to show before >> September. > > A question since I wasn't present: > Will tbis new site link to existing sites or try to collect > "existing" info on the new site ? > Sort of like http://www.rubyonrails.org/ as a simple entry portal to > the technology ? It will contain link to existing resources (the two wikis, Apple's WO page, WOCode, etc.) but will also contain a list of people using WO, success stories and what's/why WebObjects. In fact, I already have something, but since I'm trying to learn CSS/XHTML at the same time (I'm still living in a HTML4 world), it's ugly : http://www.os.ca/wofoundation/ - What's WebObjects will contain info about WO (mature, used for big sites, etc.) - How to start : links to documentation/tutorials - Resources : links to the wikis, Apple's site, etc. - People using WO : list of WO dudes, including good details (number of years using WO, number of apps, other technologies used with WO, how many devs, etc.) - Success stories (not in the menu for now) : success stories like the award for SiteMaker, forward migrations, etc. ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/jmlittle% 40gmail.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/markm% 40onpointsoftware.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/womail%40mac.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: WebObjects Foundation
On Aug 16, 2006, at 1:05 AM, Cornelius Jaeger wrote: how about janine, anjo, and chuck. they talk the talk and walk the walk I would add Mike to that list; that way we would have one person from WOProject, one from WOLips, one to guide newbies and one to guide more experienced people. But we can't nominate anyone; they have to like the idea well enough to volunteer. To be perfectly clear, what I mean by "guide" is only helping people choose a task to work on that is needed by the project and is appropriate for their skill level, and to help with infrastructure questions like "where should I create this wiki page". Help with actually working on the project should come from the list as it does today; otherwise they will drown under the load of questions. Of course, if no-one else volunteers to do this then the thought goes no further, and that's ok too. janine ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: WebObjects Foundation
Yes, but you can't make people work in a particular way - if you do, you immediately start losing potential contributors. Besides, this discussion has been about writing text, but writing code live on a Wiki would be a wee bit difficult. :) If no-one comes up with any strenuous objections in the next day or so, I'll create the page and people can use it if they want to. There is no harm done if they don't use it; they just might finish their work to find that someone else beat them to it, or that someone else is now unhappy because they wasted their time working on the same thing. Which is no different from today. If enough people like the idea it will get used, and if they don't it won't and it can go away again. janine On Aug 16, 2006, at 8:43 AM, Mike Schrag wrote: I agree -- In a lot of cases people don't like to start from a blank page, but if there is some structure that people can fill in, they're more likely to submit content. As Kieran pointed out, it's the beauty of the Wiki. ms On Aug 16, 2006, at 11:39 AM, Kieran Kelleher wrote: Ah, don't be shy :-) Make an outline of the small chunks that make up the big tutorial and work on the small chunks as you get time who knows, you can ask for help when you are stuck in one chunk while working and others can jump in and help! That's the wonder of wiki's . if someone thinks you are incorrect, they can fix it instead of complaining about it! Regards, Kieran On Aug 16, 2006, at 11:14 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Aug 16, 2006, at 4:49 AM, Kieran Kelleher wrote: Why not just sign up on confluence and start your tutorial today? I signed up last night, but this isn't something I would want to work on in a public space. I do lots of editing and back- tracking before I consider it finished, and I prefer to do that in private. janine ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/mschrag% 40mdimension.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/womail%40mac.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: WebObjects Foundation
On Aug 16, 2006, at 4:49 AM, Kieran Kelleher wrote: Why not just sign up on confluence and start your tutorial today? I signed up last night, but this isn't something I would want to work on in a public space. I do lots of editing and back-tracking before I consider it finished, and I prefer to do that in private. janine ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: WebObjects Foundation
On Aug 15, 2006, at 4:31 PM, Chuck Hill wrote: What we don't need is for most people to sit on the sidelines and wait around for the few to conjure up the future of WebObjects. To get the most people involved, we need to have the lowest barriers to participation possible. I have been following the discussion today via my Treo, and also thinking about the situation we are in. I have a couple of suggestions to toss out for discussion: Despite my assertion from yesterday that we can't form a Foundation out of thin air, I do think we need some leadership soon. We are already seeing people posting to the list asking what would be useful to do and where they should put it, and someone really should be designated to answer those questions with some consistency. I think we need a very informal Core Team, one that doesn't make any major decisions but just helps keep people moving in productive directions. Perhaps Project Managers would be a better name for it. We will eventually need a real Core Team with elections and everything if this gets off the ground, but IMHO that's unnecessary overhead at this point. If people generally think this is a good idea, then maybe we should ask for volunteers? We only need 3 or 4 people, I think, since the task will be mostly answering procedural questions and giving people the confidence that they can move forward on something that will benefit the project. I am willing to be one of the members, though it seems a bit improper to volunteer when it was my idea. :) My second suggestion is that I think we should have an area of the wiki where people can post a description of what community contribution they are working on. It doesn't obligate them to produce or else, nor do they have to give a timeframe; it's just so we can avoid duplication of effort and people can offer their assistance if their task is already being worked on by someone else. For example, I would post that I am going to write an Eclipse/WOLips tutorial, with a short description of what it will cover, so people will know it's being taken care of. If I get busy and can't get to it, it's my responsibility to update the Wiki and either say it's being delayed, or remove it altogether. Thoughts? I don't want to over-burden us with process, but I also know that if people are just milling around with no direction, in the end very little actually gets done. janine ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: WebObjects Foundation
On Aug 15, 2006, at 9:17 AM, Andrus Adamchik wrote: To expand on this point... Building an association with a goal of promoting a proprietary code base (with the owner not being a part of it) is an exercise in futility. If your are a business owner whose business depends on WebObjects technology, investing in such foundation is a waste of money, as you still have no say on the future direction of the product. I don't completely agree here. Obviously we have no say in the direction of the product; Apple is going to serve their internal needs first and there probably won't be any cycles left over for anything else. But I do think there is value to us in promoting WO however we can. For our own personal business reasons, the more buzz there is about WO the more likely clients are to be enthusiastic about using it instead of needing to be convinced. And the larger the community is, the more likely Apple is to pay some attention to us. They were clearly blown away by how many people attended the WO sessions and as I recall there were comments about wanting to see the community grow from both the audience and the stage. Invest in the existing open source WO community instead! If you have something to offer as far as WO future direction, this is the place to do it and make a difference. Wonder has 41 committers, WOProject/WOLips has 11. How many actually commit code on a regular basis? 3-4 people at the most. Not enough to start a foundation, but if you come and participate, this may change one year from now. The best advice I can give here is that it needs to be as easy as possible for people to contribute. Lessons from the past once again; in my old life documentation had to be in Docbook format and basically ready to publish, so very few people wrote any unless they were being paid to do so. Likewise they keep trying to require test cases with every patch, so fewer and fewer of those are coming in. All the ideals in the world are no good if the barrier to entry is so high that the project can't sustain itself; IMHO it is better to make it easy for new contributors and have someone ready to work with them to improve the quality of their contribution than to send them away to perfect themselves. They usually don't come back. janine ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: WebObjects Foundation
On Aug 15, 2006, at 9:07 AM, Mike Schrag wrote: and to help out Mike with making WOLips the best damn plug-in it can be. s/Mike/Ulrich, Anjo, Mike, et al/ ... Sorry Mike it seems to be one of the Laws of Nature that whoever is doing the most posting about something is the one who owns it in most people's minds. Besides, listing everyone would have ruined the flow of the sentence. :) janine ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: WebObjects Foundation
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Re: Marketing WO
premise of the thread. We're WO developers, not marketeers. We don't need to market WO, we need to contribute our code to the community. With a thriving community comes interest, O'Reilly books, and magazine articles. WO is a development system, not a new car, having an ad won't get people interested. If we do that, I think we'll find that more and more of what Apple does with WO gets open sourced. They already contribute to Wonder. When the community reaches the point that the closed source portion of WO is only 25% of the total, I think that either: 1. We won't need Apple anymore at all and someone may dig in and replace everything. 2. Apple will open source the rest. So we need not market WebObjects. Market yourself as a web application developer, and realize that one of the best ways to market yourself as an app developer is to contribute to the community. When I was an independent consultant, every time I contributed back to the community, I was able to bill at a higher rate, because people/firms who contribute to the community end up being recognized as experts by that community. I reaped far more then I sowed. Pierce P.S. None of this required any NDA knowledge (I had these thoughts before the show.) so you non-WWDC attendees can feel free to chime in before whatever public announcements come. One non-Apple thing I took away from the show: There are actually more WO programmers then there have been in the past (post-bubble was especially bad), and that we all have started to think of ourselves as a community. _Apple_ may only be making a few _billion_ a year on WO (if you count the iTunes Music Store), but there are quite a few of us making money on WO beyond that. So the community isn't going to go away and WebObjects isn't going to go away. So enough FUD! Instead, lets make the community so strong, that in two years, Apple is proposing to US what it would like to see in WO, and we're considering it... ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/womail%40mac.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: Marketing WO
On Aug 13, 2006, at 5:16 AM, Ken Anderson wrote: Ah - you've hit the nail right on the head. WebObjects is no longer a product, it is a development tool. Do you ever see ads for CoreData or CoreImage? Yes, and that was kind of my point - they never do ads for Xcode either, but they do make sure that developers are aware when there is news, through press releases, articles, etc. There is a lot the community can do to promote WO ourselves, and we should be doing those things. Heck, we can even write our own press releases when there are new WO releases; I've never done it but I've heard there's a way to get them out "on the wire" that anyone can use. But I think there are some basic things we can, and should, ask Apple to do. PR from Apple is going to attract a lot more attention, at least initially, than PR from a bunch of anonymous developers, and only Apple can provide meaningful white papers on the projects they have built, to give just two examples. We sure shouldn't waste any time waiting for Apple to do these things, but I say it doesn't hurt to ask. janine ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: Marketing WO
On Aug 12, 2006, at 10:19 AM, Marc Oesch wrote: I'd like to see Apple add to their public WebObjects page so that we have something to point prospective clients to to show *Sigh*, I appreciate your enthusiam...no sarcasm intended :) And I understand your skepticism! If the feedback address at [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Janine, did they give a newer one at WWDC or is that under NDA as well ? - is still valid, let's collect it and send it there. I don't recall any change to this being discussed. Suggestions ? Well, I think the first question is what do we want to see happen? I don't see traditional advertising like MacWorld (the magazine), billboards or banner ads being very effective. Product reviews are a great way to generate buzz, but WO would require a much more technically savvy reviewer than most to do it justice. Posters in their retail stores would not be seen by enough of the right people. What we want to see happen is for people to know that WebObjects exists, that it's used for serious, income-generating applications, that companies and individual developers stand ready to help them build their projects, and that Apple stands behind it. How can we achieve that? Some things that come to mind: - ask Apple to give WebObjects the same status it gives the rest of the product line. I have yet to see an actual announcement from Apple of a new WO version - it just gets slipped into the Xcode distribution like it was an afterthought or even an embarrassment. If nothing else, the description of the Xcode download at connect.apple.com could at least *mention* that it includes WebObjects! - ask Apple to put a "built with WebObjects" banner on the sites where this is the case. Not likely to happen with iTunes but might be possible for the Store (my opinion only, no inside knowledge here other than I've heard Steve has to approve any changes to the look of iTunes). - put together lists of sites built with WO, and of companies and consultants using WO. This can go in the wiki and be built and maintained by the community. - I have never been to MacWorld the show - would it make sense to ask Apple to promote WebObjects there along with iLife et al? Or is that not the right place for a programmer-centric product? - this is a long shot, but how about asking Apple to have the PR dept get us some sort of writeup in the trade press? These articles are sometimes written at the subject's request, or so I've heard, and articles are usually much more effective than ads at getting people to think about a product and to remember it exists next time they need something like that. After the post-WWDC announcement is s made next week it would be a *perfect* time for this, IMHO. Am I heading in the right direction? Who can add more to this? janine ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Let's brainstorm
During the WO Feedback session I brought up the subject of Apple marketing for WO, or lack thereof. I can't tell you what the answer was (which is just as annoying for me as it is for you!) but let's just say that there are no marketing companies sharpening their pencils today (at least not for this reason). Given that many of us feel that promotion of WebObjects would help us personally, I thought it would be fun to have a discussion of what we would like to see done, by Apple or anyone else, to promote WO. I want to be very clear that I have no inside knowledge nor any reason to think that Apple will care about what we have to say. I'm more interested for myself, to see what you all will come up with and if there are any ideas that the community could implement ourselves. I'll start with the suggestion I made at the feedback forum, which was that I'd like to see Apple add to their public WebObjects page so that we have something to point prospective clients to to show them that it's alive, supported and in use in high places. Next? janine ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: WOProject/WOLips first impressions from an Xcode user
On Aug 12, 2006, at 7:52 AM, Anjo Krank wrote: Also, this WYSWIG thing is totally overrated and mainly only useful for beginners, as you see exactly nothing once your components get a bit more complex. Anjo, I mostly agree with you but I'd like to offer this thought: When I first worked through Apple's WO tutorial, the dragging to create bindings was Just So Cool that it was the carrot that kept me going through some of the harder, more confusing parts. I kept thinking that once I got the hang of it, building a WO app was going to be so much *fun*. Of course it didn't take me long to figure out that it's overrated, like you said, and not that useful for anything complex. But I think having it available is good for new users, and clearly there are at least some experienced users who like it. I'm not suggesting you run out and build this yourself, but I'd like to encourage those who like this functionality to consider it. Even if it only worked f or simple stuff, to be used as a teaching tool, I think it would be beneficial. janine ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Time out!
*sigh* stupid hotel Internet; I forgot that it doesn't let me send using my mac.com account, so I went away for a bit and found this sitting here waiting for me to change outgoing mail servers. So this was more relevant an hour ago, but I'm going to send it anyway, with another thought added to the end. I'm starting a new thread here because I don't want anyone to feel I am addressing them specifically. I would like to toss a few observations into the fray: 1. A new tool will almost always feel like a clunky piece of junk when you are already intimately familiar with another one that does the same job differently. Opinions to that effect will carry more weight after you have been using it long enough to have gotten used to it; if you still have issues with it then you can state them in a much more informed manner. 2. Being a volunteer project is no excuse for sloppiness. The Open Source project I am moving away from has been seriously degraded because of this attitude. Everyone always wants to work on new stuff, or at least the areas that interest them, but if everyone neglects the housekeeping because it's boring and someone else should volunteer to do that, eventually the whole thing suffers. 3. For some reason, it has always been the case that people will say things to someone online that they would never say, at least not nearly that bluntly, in a face-to-face meeting. IMHO it is always a good idea to imagine yourself giving your "feedback" in person before posting, and generally trying to err on the side of being kind. I have been online for a long time, since the Usenet days in the 80s, so I can say with some authority that this list has been, overall, a very positive place to be compared to many other technical lists out there. It would be a shame if the as-yet unannounced developments ended up destroying that instead of giving us all a common goal to work towards. janine Added later: After going away and thinking about this some more, I wanted to add the following: I actually volunteered to do this tutorial on Sunday night, before WWDC had even officially started. I did that because I was sitting there listening to Chuck (who I had met before) and Mike (who I had just met) talk about Entity Modeler and it occurred to me that I will never get the kind of support from Apple that I can get from those two guys and the rest of the community. That is not a criticism of Apple (not that they couldn't improve in this area); I'm not and probably never will be an Enterprise level customer, and not even the best-run companies can afford to give personal service to each small customer the way a group of dedicated volunteers can. And these guys are well above the norm. I will confess that I've tried Eclipse a few times before and have never been particularly fond of it. I found the UI baffling and definitely not Mac-like. I always ended up going back to Xcode as the "Devil I know and have documentation for". So it's not like I have a particularly strong desire to use Eclupse, and at that point in the week I had no reason to either (that's called a "hint" :). But I decided to do it anyway. So I would offer this thought as an incentive for those whose first impression of Eclipse is "ick" - it's understandable, but the things it can do are very,very useful and there are good reasons for using it, the above being only one of many. ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: Tutorial project
Can you suggest a program to use for doing this? A quick Google found many choices but they all look expensive and windows-ish. I think there is room for both; I personally prefer working from written docs, but once I have that done I can use it for a script to do a screencast for those who prefer that format. janine On Aug 12, 2006, at 8:17 AM, Anjo Krank wrote: Hi Janine, I'd suggest to make it screencast. Its *way* less work than writing the stuff together and messing around with screenshots and the like. You don't need a total script for that, just get the basic action right, speak halfway fluently and show off how things are done. They needn't be so perfect as Jonathan's... I did one a while ago and it was just an hour of work (for me, discounting editing time, that is). Cheers, Anjo Am 11.08.2006 um 20:30 schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: In a moment of WWDC-induced enthusiasm (or insanity, depending on your point of view :) I volunteered to write a tutorial for using Eclipse+WOLips to build a small project. Chuck and Mike have agreed to assist. ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: D2W App and new tools...
Hi Dustin, welcome! According to the Wonder 3.0 announcement Anjo sent out a few days ago, Project Wonder is available here: http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=45176 and it contains the new RuleModeler. Disclaimer - I've never used PW so I'm only passing this on as an unconfirmed rumor. :) The WOLips project was moved recently and hopefully those who can fix the broken links will see this message.. By the way, there is a mailing list for Project Wonder, which you can sign up for here: http://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=45176 That is probably a more appropriate place to ask your next question, which I'm sure will be how to install it (and I can't help you there). I just signed up for the list myself so I can learn from your progress. :) janine On Aug 11, 2006, at 11:48 PM, Dustin Withers wrote: Hello All, I'm currently in the process of deciding between what frameworks to develop a fairly simple CRUD app under. I'm looking into using WebObjects and the D2W stuff looks like it would be the way to do it. I've installed Eclipse and WOLips and have went through the tutorial to set it up (by the way the front page to the WOLips site has invalid install info link: http://objectstyle.org/woproject-old/ helloworld.html) Actually the above parenthetic statement is kind of a big deal...I went that route because if you type in WOLips in google that's where it takes you. If that stuff is old move it to a history page and redirect to the wiki (which has the right info). As I went on I found more problems in the same vein: Next I noticed something about RuleModeler and thought I would go and download it as I believe it has quite a bit to do with setting up a D2W app. Anjo Krank recently posted to the Project Wonder mailing list that RuleModeler 1.1 was available. Anyone know where I might download it? I've searched high and low (with Google) and the only thing I can come up with is http://commons.ucalgary.ca/ ~king/projects/rulemodeler/ which I don't think is the right site. Thanks, -dustin ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/womail%40mac.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: General List Disclosure of WWDC WO info
I asked about that at the register (after the guy commented on my t-shirt :). At first he said maybe it's up there for historical reasons, but then he said no, it's probably because you can still buy it through the online store and they're required to carry everything you can get online. Except for computers, apparently, since I didn't see any.This does not, of course, answer the obvious question - why does the online store still sell it? I would love to know how many units they sell per month! :)janineOn Aug 11, 2006, at 7:47 PM, Franck Horlaville wrote: The fun thing is that 5.2 is still on sale at the company store for $699 ... Go figure :-)On 11 août 06, at 12:28, Karl wrote:That relates to WO 5.2. It changed with 5.3.Read the license that comes with 5.3.1.KarlOn Aug 11, 2006, at 12:25 PM, Zak Burke wrote: Karl wrote on 8/11/06 2:11 PM: If you read the detailed license, any WO 5.3.x onwards application islicensed for deployment on any compatible platform without requiring thepurchase of a license. IANAL, but my interpretation is different than yours. Here are detailsfrom http://developer.apple.com/softwarelicensing/agreements/webobjects.htmlWebObjects Distribution License$699 per copyWebObjects, the premier web application server used by hundreds ofcorporations, is now available for redistribution by web applicationdevelopers just like you.Upon signature by Apple, the agreement, together with payment for yourinitial request of licenses, allows you to resell WebObjects licensekeys, and redistribute the WebObjects deployment runtime and adaptors aspart of your web application. ___Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/fh.lists%40qualitech.maThis email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Franck HorlavilleIT ManagerQualitech ___Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/womail%40mac.comThis email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: Tutorial project
Hi Miguel, We already talked about this in person (the best thing about WWDC is being able to do that! :) but for the benefit of everyone else I'll repeat what I told you: I'm not experienced enough yet to do a best practices doc. That really needs to come from the people who have tried many approaches and have figured out which ones work best. Also, it can be very difficult to get people to agree on what the best practices are; sometimes it is obvious, but other times "best" is not so easy to define. So I will not take on your suggestion now, but I would love to see someone else tackle this. janine On Aug 11, 2006, at 12:34 PM, Miguel Arroz wrote: Hi! Let me give you a suggestion: don't stay only on basic stuff. One of the biggest difficulties I have learning WO is the good practices (how to handle several Editing Contexts, etc) and that cannot be found on simple examples. So, please put some of your experience in there on how to solve those problems! :) I'll probably be offline for now until August 20 or 21, so... bye! :) Yours Miguel Arroz On 2006/08/11, at 11:30, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a moment of WWDC-induced enthusiasm (or insanity, depending on your point of view :) I volunteered to write a tutorial for using Eclipse+WOLips to build a small project. Chuck and Mike have agreed to assist. I can't give any sort of time table; it's dependent on all three of our schedules and I think it's safe to say we are all already overbooked. But I wanted everyone to know that it is coming, hopefully reasonably soon. We have had many discussions this week about the lack of information for new users, and I hope this will help. janine ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/arroz% 40guiamac.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] "I felt like putting a bullet between the eyes of every Panda that wouldn't scr*w to save its species." -- Fight Club Miguel Arroz http://www.ipragma.com ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Tutorial project
In a moment of WWDC-induced enthusiasm (or insanity, depending on your point of view :) I volunteered to write a tutorial for using Eclipse+WOLips to build a small project. Chuck and Mike have agreed to assist. I can't give any sort of time table; it's dependent on all three of our schedules and I think it's safe to say we are all already overbooked. But I wanted everyone to know that it is coming, hopefully reasonably soon. We have had many discussions this week about the lack of information for new users, and I hope this will help. janine ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Tutorial project
In a moment of WWDC-induced enthusiasm (or insanity, depending on your point of view :) I volunteered to write a tutorial for using Eclipse+WOLips to build a small project. Chuck and Mike have agreed to assist. I can't give any sort of time table; it's dependent on all three of our schedules and I think it's safe to say we are all already overbooked. But I wanted everyone to know that it is coming, hopefully reasonably soon. We have had many discussions this week about the lack of information for new users, and I hope this will help. janine ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Regarding the t-shirt
I was asked the same question several times at the campus bash tonight, so please allow me to clear something up: no, I have not been wearing the exact same t-shirt all week! I have several that look the same, and I even did laundry a few days ago. Just to reassure you all, I will wear something other than pink tomorrow. :) janine ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: Meeting tomorrow ?
Sounds like a good idea - I'll be there. janine On Aug 10, 2006, at 9:06 PM, Pascal Robert wrote: I think we should meetup near the IT lab after the WO deployment session so that we can see us one last time for a year and discuss how to start the WO community, etc. Who's in ? ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/womail%40mac.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Lunch
Anyone who wants to go for lunch after the WebObjects and Web 2.0 session, meet outside the room immediately afterwards. Hopefully we will have good things to talk about! janine PS Awfully big crowd for a dead technology, eh? Looks like someone forgot to send out the memo... ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: The shirts are having an impact!
On Aug 9, 2006, at 6:52 PM, Arturo Pérez wrote: Now, I understand. That is an attention getter. Intentionally so! :) Though to be honest the implications of placement didn't occur to me until afterwards, but when you have shirts with writing on them that is generally where it goes, so I doubt I would have changed it. I'm sure that participating in the Sunday night debauche (assuming you did) helped prepare you for what you were getting into. Wish I coulda been there! The debauching was on Monday night; Sunday was fairly tame. I was at both and had fun, though I did leave on Monday before Danny started the bar tour... Regardless, I knew what I was in for before I arrived. I've been working in this industry for a long time! :) janine ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: The shirts are having an impact!
On Aug 9, 2006, at 5:35 PM, Arturo Pérez wrote: BTW, I do actually - of the shirt. Where is that? I'd love to see what's causing all the commotion :-) http://www.cafepress.com/WOWomen Believe me, it's not what's inside the shirt that's getting the attention - I'm usually relatively invisible, which is why having so many people looking at me feels so strange! janine ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: The shirts are having an impact!
On Aug 9, 2006, at 5:24 PM, Arturo Pérez wrote: Well, actually, I've never seen a woman at WWDC. There are a lot of us here, more than I expected, but the technical sessions are still mostly men. I'm guessing the women are here mostly for the creative side. Yet another way that Apple has broad market appeal. :) janine ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: How about a WWWODC?
You go Chuck! (but you have to finish the book first :) janine On Aug 9, 2006, at 5:23 PM, Chuck Hill wrote: Well, yes. Dominique Baillon suggested it to me yesterday. I think we should definitely do it. We talking about having the first one in a variety of places. My thinking right now is to have it either the before or the week after WWDC. This would make it easier for people who have to come from a long way away _and_ give more incentive for WO developers to come to WWDC. More WO developers at WWDC means we have more visibility within Apple. And _that_ would be a good thing. There seems to be enough interest in it. I will throw up a page today or tomorrow to solicit some feed back on when, where, and what to present. Maybe a mix of 50% presentation by the various WO folks and the rest in useful labs or collaborative bug fixing, or group development of tools? I am sure that we could fill a week up with useful and interesting sessions. Chuck On Aug 9, 2006, at 2:36 PM, George Domurot wrote: Has anyone ever thought about putting together a WWWODC? -- George Domurot [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/chill% 40global-village.net This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Coming in 2006 - an introduction to web applications using WebObjects and Xcode http://www.global-village.net/wointro Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific problems.http://www.global-village.net/products/ practical_webobjects ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/womail%40mac.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: How about a WWWODC?
On Aug 9, 2006, at 5:12 PM, Pascal Robert wrote: Did someone saw Eric Loit since Monday night ? No worries, I saw him today. Or rather, he saw me - that t-shirt thing again. :) janine ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: The shirts are having an impact!
Yes, yes, I know. Having worked in this field for 20+ years now I'm quite used to it. :) janine On Aug 9, 2006, at 2:38 PM, Ken Anderson wrote: Sorry Janine, you have to excuse our colleagues that don't often see or speak to women :) Regarding the person on Monday wearing the other WebObjects shirt, she was only around until Tuesday morning, so you're it! On Aug 9, 2006, at 5:34 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, I'm trying to ignore that! :) janine On Aug 9, 2006, at 2:30 PM, Tom M. Blenko wrote: You misunderstand, Arturo's asking for a picture. Tom On Aug 9, 2006, at 2:12 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Aug 9, 2006, at 1:58 PM, Arturo Perez wrote: Not being there, I can't help but wonder why they are noticing you. That is, why are you THE woman wearing the WebObjects shirt? Are you the only woman with a shirt? Are you the only woman at WWDC? Are you the only WebObjects-shirt wearing woman? D o they think you are working a booth? What's the deal? Are you 7 feet tall? What? As far as I know I'm the only woman wearing the shirt. There's one other here who wore one on Monday, but it was covered by a vest so it wasn't very visible. I haven't seen her since so I don't know if she has continued to wear it. The guys haven't been wearing their WO shirts either since Monday so I'm pretty much the only person in the whole place who is wearing one. There is nothing else special about me, so I'm guessing it's just the uniqueness of the shirt. janine ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/blenko% 40martingalesystems.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/lists% 40anderhome.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: The shirts are having an impact!
Yes, I'm trying to ignore that! :) janine On Aug 9, 2006, at 2:30 PM, Tom M. Blenko wrote: You misunderstand, Arturo's asking for a picture. Tom On Aug 9, 2006, at 2:12 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Aug 9, 2006, at 1:58 PM, Arturo Perez wrote: Not being there, I can't help but wonder why they are noticing you. That is, why are you THE woman wearing the WebObjects shirt? Are you the only woman with a shirt? Are you the only woman at WWDC? Are you the only WebObjects-shirt wearing woman?D o they think you are working a booth? What's the deal? Are you 7 feet tall? What? As far as I know I'm the only woman wearing the shirt. There's one other here who wore one on Monday, but it was covered by a vest so it wasn't very visible. I haven't seen her since so I don't know if she has continued to wear it. The guys haven't been wearing their WO shirts either since Monday so I'm pretty much the only person in the whole place who is wearing one. There is nothing else special about me, so I'm guessing it's just the uniqueness of the shirt. janine ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/blenko% 40martingalesystems.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: The shirts are having an impact!
On Aug 9, 2006, at 1:58 PM, Arturo Perez wrote: Not being there, I can't help but wonder why they are noticing you. That is, why are you THE woman wearing the WebObjects shirt? Are you the only woman with a shirt? Are you the only woman at WWDC? Are you the only WebObjects-shirt wearing woman?D o they think you are working a booth? What's the deal? Are you 7 feet tall? What? As far as I know I'm the only woman wearing the shirt. There's one other here who wore one on Monday, but it was covered by a vest so it wasn't very visible. I haven't seen her since so I don't know if she has continued to wear it. The guys haven't been wearing their WO shirts either since Monday so I'm pretty much the only person in the whole place who is wearing one. There is nothing else special about me, so I'm guessing it's just the uniqueness of the shirt. janine ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Is Xcode 2.4 safe to install?
I don't want my laptop to become unusable for the WO sessions coming up - can I install 2.4 without major breakage, or should I wait until next week? thanks, janine ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: The shirts are having an impact!
On Aug 9, 2006, at 1:27 PM, Guido Neitzer wrote: So, do you now suggest next year we bring all our wives / girlfriends to WWDC only for wearing WO shirts and doing WO advertisement? Sounds like a good plan to me! We will have to make a new batch of shirts next year. I'm sure we can find some way to make the whole thing tax-deductible - it's an advertising expense! :) I think a toned-down version of the AIMF shirt (same message but cleaner language) would be awesome to wear to the WO sessions next year. Especially if there was a whole bunch of us wearing them. janine ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
The shirts are having an impact!
A guy just stopped me on Level 2 at WWDC and said "You're the woman wearing the WebObjects shirt!". I said "apparently I am, yes" and he said "All these people have been telling me that there's this woman here wearing a WebObjects t-shirt". Very cool. I feel a little silly wearing it; let's just say that people's eyes are spending a lot more time on the front of my shirt than usual. :) But the idea was to attract attention to WebObjects and I seem to be accomplishing that. Considering they remembered what the shirt said afterwards. :))) janine ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: [Off Topic ] WWDC Eclipse help ?
I'm going to Introducing Teams after this, but I'll try to find you guys at the Pixar thing. Save a seat for me, ok? janine On Aug 9, 2006, at 9:20 AM, Ken Anderson wrote: You definitely can't miss the Pixar stuff, but that's not until 12:30 PM. Although we should head up there early to make sure we get in! On Aug 9, 2006, at 12:15 PM, Danny Wang wrote: Probably. The Pixar session is something I won't want to miss. I'm not seeing faces that I recognize at the session, though. Who wants to get together for a few right after the Eclipse session? Let's meet outside Mission, perhaps? On Aug 9, 2006, at 8:07 AM, Ken Anderson wrote: It probably makes sense to stay together after the Eclipse session this morning... On Aug 9, 2006, at 11:03 AM, Guido Neitzer wrote: On 08.08.2006, at 23:16 Uhr, David LeBer wrote: I saw a massive speed improvement when I went from the PowerBook to the MacBook (I think the JVM was responsible for most of that). Yes, the MacBook Pro with a good bunch of RAM seems faster than my office dual G5. On the road I use a Powerbook G4 1.25GHz - this sucks sometimes very hard, but is mostly usable (I have 2GB RAM). As Anjo said, a lunch hour is too short to get someone up to speed on Eclispe/Wolips. I'd doubt we'd even get it installed in that time frame. Though I'm open for questions if anyone finds me here. (He says, while running off to hide) We can split this. If someone is interested, I can walk him through installation and some very basic stuff. As this can only be done in very small groups, the burden shouldn't be laid on only one person ... cug ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/lists% 40anderhome.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/devilution% 40mac.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/womail%40mac.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: [Off Topic ] WWDC Eclipse help ?
It seems ok to me, but I've got a 2 Ghz Core Duo and 1 GB of RAM. *gloat* :) janine PS I haven't done anything but install it so far - it could still turn into a dog for all I know. On Aug 8, 2006, at 8:37 PM, Joe Little wrote: well, I've been trying to get eclipse/wolips/etc installed today on my laptop to at least prep for tomorrow's session. Can I just say that on a 1.2ghz g4, 1GB ram, it kinda blows? :) Definitely good for selling new mac laptops. At least Eclipse 3.2 is universal.. On 8/8/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Joe, that sounds like a good idea to me. I can't do tomorrow at lunch anyway; I already had a lunch session I was going to and now that Pixar thing is calling my name as well. janine well, I've been trying to get eclipse/wolips/etc installed today on my laptop to at least prep for tomorrow's session. Can I just say that on a 1.2ghz g4, 1GB ram, it kinda blows? :) Definitely good for selling new mac laptops. At least Eclipse 3.2 is universal.. On Aug 8, 2006, at 7:53 PM, Joe Little wrote: > On 8/8/06, Chuck Hill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> On Aug 8, 2006, at 6:59 PM, Timmy wrote: >> >> > Folks at WWDC inquiring about Eclipse doesn't make me feel warm and >> > fuzzy about Apple's tools for WO development. >> >> nor does using them. :-P >> >> > > There's a hands on session tomorrow at 9am. I suggest people go there > and then an impromptu session after if debugging with xcode doesn't > fit people's interest. I'm interesting in getting around in it myself, > so can't be the teacher for much. My guess is most people need to come > to understand ant more than anything else. > > I wouldn't suggest lunch tomorrow, since I wouldn't miss the Pixar guy > (lunch time event) for anything -- its usually very entertaining. > There is always Thursday lunch, right in between WebObjects and Xray > sessions :) > > >> -- >> Coming in 2006 - an introduction to web applications using WebObjects >> and Xcode http://www.global-village.net/wointro >> >> Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their >> overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific >> problems.http://www.global-village.net/products/ >> practical_webobjects >> >> >> >> >> ___ >> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >> Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) >> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/jmlittle% >> 40gmail.com >> >> This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > ___ > Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. > Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) > Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: > http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/womail% 40mac.com > > This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: [Off Topic ] WWDC Eclipse help ?
Joe, that sounds like a good idea to me. I can't do tomorrow at lunch anyway; I already had a lunch session I was going to and now that Pixar thing is calling my name as well. janine On Aug 8, 2006, at 7:53 PM, Joe Little wrote: On 8/8/06, Chuck Hill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Aug 8, 2006, at 6:59 PM, Timmy wrote: > Folks at WWDC inquiring about Eclipse doesn't make me feel warm and > fuzzy about Apple's tools for WO development. nor does using them. :-P There's a hands on session tomorrow at 9am. I suggest people go there and then an impromptu session after if debugging with xcode doesn't fit people's interest. I'm interesting in getting around in it myself, so can't be the teacher for much. My guess is most people need to come to understand ant more than anything else. I wouldn't suggest lunch tomorrow, since I wouldn't miss the Pixar guy (lunch time event) for anything -- its usually very entertaining. There is always Thursday lunch, right in between WebObjects and Xray sessions :) -- Coming in 2006 - an introduction to web applications using WebObjects and Xcode http://www.global-village.net/wointro Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific problems.http://www.global-village.net/products/ practical_webobjects ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/jmlittle% 40gmail.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/womail%40mac.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: [Off Topic ] WWDC Eclipse help ?
I was going to say that they could teach all three of us and have a free meal *and* free beer, but then I remembered that Chuck is here and he claims to drink it by the keg so maybe I'd better not. :) janine On Aug 8, 2006, at 5:15 PM, Danny Wang wrote: I'll second that. Er, third that. Nothing like hands on training. I'll offer up a meal too. =) Play your cards right, you can teach all of us separate and get meals the rest of the conference. On Aug 8, 2006, at 5:11 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would be interested in this as well! Who wants a free meal? :) janine On Aug 8, 2006, at 4:25 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All, Was wondering if anyone at WWDC has the time to walk me through WO and Eclipse ? Contact me off list you have a spare lunch time to help me get started. I figure Im here to learn so I may as well ask :) Owen McKerrow WebMaster, emlab Ph : +61 02 4221 5517 http://emlab.uow.edu.au - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - People who prefer typing to pointing then seem to prefer acronyms to save typing :-) -Denis Stanton, On people using Command Line Interfaces ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/womail% 40mac.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/devilution% 40mac.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: [Off Topic ] WWDC Eclipse help ?
I would be interested in this as well! Who wants a free meal? :) janine On Aug 8, 2006, at 4:25 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All, Was wondering if anyone at WWDC has the time to walk me through WO and Eclipse ? Contact me off list you have a spare lunch time to help me get started. I figure Im here to learn so I may as well ask :) Owen McKerrow WebMaster, emlab Ph : +61 02 4221 5517 http://emlab.uow.edu.au - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - People who prefer typing to pointing then seem to prefer acronyms to save typing :-) -Denis Stanton, On people using Command Line Interfaces ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/womail%40mac.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Purchasing Apple logo merchandise
Some weeks back someone posted to this list (I think) that it's better to go down to Cupertino and shop at the Employee Store on some day other than the one of the Campus Bash, to avoid the long lines. Tonight I tried to find out some info about this store, like it's location and hours and whether they will really allow us unwashed masses to shop there, but I could not find the message nor any mention of the existence of such a store. So can someone who has done this before please educate the newbies? thanks, janine PS Had a great time at the meetup - it was great to talk to everyone! Joe, you did a great job of organizing; thank you for all your efforts. ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: Recommended reading?
On Aug 2, 2006, at 7:31 PM, Jerry W. Walker wrote: I would urge you to read the Introduction and the section on "Developing a Software Product With Xcode". These two sections do a pretty good job of introducing the Xcode vocabulary and, without that, you will find the sessions more mystifying than helpful. It would also help to examine a working WO project developed in Xcode to see how the vocabulary presented in those two sections applies to a WO project. I've been slowly building a small WO project, though I'm not going to have time to get it done before I arrive, I'm afraid. I think with your reading assignment I will be ok. Java uses a very different environment, and most of the problems I've had with Xcode for WO are problems surrounding the bad fit between Xcode and Java. The bad fit mostly leaves a lot of options, facilities and services that don't fit Java and together form the cruft that makes it difficult to find what you need in Xcode for WO development. The same comments apply to the documentation surrounding Xcode. Well, for better or worse I won't know what I'm missing. :) * it is the Apple supported product, so one kind of assumes it will stay in lock-step with OS updates and such I hope you are right. I started trying to do my project in Eclipse, but decided that dealing with Eclipse, WOLips, the new Entity Modeler and EO Generator all at the same time was just too much new stuff all at once. I've done enough with Xcode now to limp around, so I'm sticking with it until I feel more confident in what I'm doing. * the evils one knows tend to be preferable to the evils one doesn't know (also known as momentum). If that's anything like Joementum then run, run away fast! :) It could be contagious! (for our non American readers, it's a political joke. Email me if you really want to know.) Good luck at WWDC, wish I could be there. I wish you could be too! janine ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: Recommended reading?
Well, one could argue that *you* just absorb knowledge through the keyboard. The rest of us, however... :) On Aug 2, 2006, at 3:24 PM, Chuck Hill wrote: I use Xcode daily and I have not read _any_ of this. :-) And I doubt that I ever will. On Aug 2, 2006, at 3:01 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Perhaps I'm just being lazy, but reading the entire Xcode 2.3 User Guide, which clocks in at a measly 536 pages, seems like an awful lot of pre-reading to do for a couple of sessions on Xcode. Heck, by the time I read all that I wouldn't need to attend the sessions anymore! Most of the other things I've picked out to attend also have recommended reading, though I haven't seen any others that are this heavy-duty. And then there are the "related resources", which I guess are like extra credit for the overachievers among us. Is this recommendation really meant to be taken seriously?? Am I going to regret it if I leave this summer reading pile at home? janine ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/chill% 40global-village.net This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Coming sometime... - an introduction to web applications using WebObjects and Xcode http://www.global-village.net/wointro Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific problems.http://www.global-village.net/products/ practical_webobjects ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Recommended reading?
Perhaps I'm just being lazy, but reading the entire Xcode 2.3 User Guide, which clocks in at a measly 536 pages, seems like an awful lot of pre-reading to do for a couple of sessions on Xcode. Heck, by the time I read all that I wouldn't need to attend the sessions anymore! Most of the other things I've picked out to attend also have recommended reading, though I haven't seen any others that are this heavy-duty. And then there are the "related resources", which I guess are like extra credit for the overachievers among us. Is this recommendation really meant to be taken seriously?? Am I going to regret it if I leave this summer reading pile at home? janine ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: Event update ; notice
I think it's Gather 0.5, the Beta version. janine On Aug 1, 2006, at 2:52 PM, Mike Schrag wrote: Yeah we are coming in Friday night and have something going on Sunday afternoon, but we should be around Sunday night. Is this shaping up to be WO Gather II: Electric Boogaloo? ms On Aug 1, 2006, at 5:50 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Aug 1, 2006, at 2:44 PM, Chuck Hill wrote: Heck, I can probably drink an entire bottle of beer by myself! Shouldn't that have read a "keg"? :) My flight gets in at 6:30PM on Sunday. Anyone want to get in a night of practice on Sunday? I'm arriving Saturday, so I'm up for something on Sunday night. janine ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/mschrag% 40mdimension.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/womail%40mac.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: Event update ; notice
On Aug 1, 2006, at 2:44 PM, Chuck Hill wrote: Heck, I can probably drink an entire bottle of beer by myself! Shouldn't that have read a "keg"? :) My flight gets in at 6:30PM on Sunday. Anyone want to get in a night of practice on Sunday? I'm arriving Saturday, so I'm up for something on Sunday night. janine ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: WWDC session on performance analysis
On Jul 24, 2006, at 10:42 PM, Mark Ritchie wrote: For sure we can use Shark with WO!! Don't know if this presentation is going to demo Java with Shark or not. Would be nice if they did! :-) FYI, the Java Time Profile works pretty well! For me the Java Alloc Trace is slow and doesn't consistently give the actual memory use... Just the percentage memory use. Cool, thanks! So much to learn, so little time... :) janine ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
WWDC session on performance analysis
309 Using Performance Analysis and Debugging Tools on Mac OS X "The first step in optimization is understanding where your application is using resources. Learn to use Shark and other tools to understand application flow, analyze what your code is doing, and take the necessary measurements so you can make your application run lean and fast." Is there likely to be anything in this presentation that would be useful from a WO perspective? Can we use tools like Shark? janine ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Question for Eclipse+Perforce users
I know this isn't strictly WO related, but Google is not finding anything for me and I don't really know where else to ask. Hopefully someone else out there is working with this combo. The help text for getting this set up to work has you get connected to Perforce, then switch to the Perforce perspective. The next step says "In the Navigator, right-click the project folder and choose Team -> Open for Add. The Add dialog is displayed..." I have a couple of problems here. First, the Perforce perspective has no Navigator panel and I can't figure out how to add one to it. So I had to switch back to the WOLips view to do this step. Second, no dialog comes up; in fact nothing seems to happen at all. If you switch back to the Perforce view, you find that your command actually did get executed and any messages generated by Perforce are in the P4 Log Console. Is this how it really is, or am I missing something or doing something wrong? thanks, janine ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: WWDC WO Meet Up List
Since this will be my first year going, I don't want to try to organize something that might not work out. But if any of the veterans want to try, I'm willing to help out. Here's an idea - Cafe Press also does bumper stickers. We could each get a clipboard to put our bingo card on, and have a WO sticker on the back of it. The idea being to attract as much attention for WO as possible. I think MIke's "Powered by WebObjects" badge would be perfect for this. (hint, hint :) janine On Jul 24, 2006, at 11:06 AM, Chuck Hill wrote: There are a lot of media folks at the keynote. They might notice. On Jul 24, 2006, at 10:28 AM, Danny Wang wrote: That would be hilarious! I'm buying the 3D EO shirt for the keynote/Monday night. Maybe we can gather a group outside the keynote beforehand and all go in at once? Just a thought. =) On Jul 24, 2006, at 11:23 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I thought about posting about this myself last night. There is potential here for a group "event", but I don't think we have the time or the organization to pull it off. There will be about 70 of us there, assuming everyone goes to the keynote, and if we could coordinate so we were all wearing the shirts and carrying bingo cards I think it would draw a lot of attention to us, and to WO by extension. janine On Jul 24, 2006, at 6:45 AM, Geoff Hopson wrote: Are the WO crowd going to play WWDC Bingo? http://arstechnica.com/staff/fatbits.ars/2006/7/23/4730 MAybe if a WO person wins they should stand up and shout "WebObjects" (before they ae escorted from the hall) Wish I was going... Geoff On 24/07/06, Joe Little <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Ok. I'll confirm on Monday the 7:30-10:30 timing and 70 people minimum. I'll also have the order one more of one of the two dishes or something else (to make three dishes) On 7/23/06, Chuck Hill < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Thanks, I'd forgotten about that. 76 people signed up so far! > > > On Jul 23, 2006, at 1:27 PM, Ken Anderson wrote: > > > Hey Chuck, > > > > Could you update the time to be from 7:30 pm to 10:30 pm? > > > > Ken > > > > On Jul 12, 2006, at 2:14 PM, Chuck Hill wrote: > > > >> Hi, > >> > >>> On Jul 11, 2006, at 6:13 AM, Pascal Robert wrote: > >> > >>> Would be nice to add two fields on your WWDC Meet Up page : which > >>> company and which hotel they are going to > >> > >> I have done this and also added a contact field if anyone want to > >> provide that info as well. > >> > >> http://www.global-village.net/chill.at.gvc > >> > >> Chuck > >> ___ > >> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. > >> Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects- [EMAIL PROTECTED]) > >> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: > >> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/lists% > >> 40anderhome.com > >> > >> This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > -- > Coming sometime... - an introduction to web applications using > WebObjects and Xcode http://www.global-village.net/wointro > > Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their > overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific > problems. http://www.global-village.net/products/ practical_webobjects > > > > > ___ > Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. > Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) > Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: > http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/jmlittle% 40gmail.com > > This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/ geoff.hopson%40gmail.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/womail% 40mac.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/
Re: WWDC WO Meet Up List
I thought about posting about this myself last night. There is potential here for a group "event", but I don't think we have the time or the organization to pull it off. There will be about 70 of us there, assuming everyone goes to the keynote, and if we could coordinate so we were all wearing the shirts and carrying bingo cards I think it would draw a lot of attention to us, and to WO by extension.janineOn Jul 24, 2006, at 6:45 AM, Geoff Hopson wrote:Are the WO crowd going to play WWDC Bingo?http://arstechnica.com/staff/fatbits.ars/2006/7/23/4730MAybe if a WO person wins they should stand up and shout "WebObjects" (before they ae escorted from the hall) Wish I was going...GeoffOn 24/07/06, Joe Little <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Ok. I'll confirm on Monday the 7:30-10:30 timing and 70 peopleminimum. I'll also have the order one more of one of the two dishes orsomething else (to make three dishes)On 7/23/06, Chuck Hill < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:> Thanks, I'd forgotten about that. 76 people signed up so far!>>> On Jul 23, 2006, at 1:27 PM, Ken Anderson wrote:>> > Hey Chuck,> > > > Could you update the time to be from 7:30 pm to 10:30 pm?> >> > Ken> >> > On Jul 12, 2006, at 2:14 PM, Chuck Hill wrote:> >> >> Hi,> >> > >>> On Jul 11, 2006, at 6:13 AM, Pascal Robert wrote:> >>> >>> Would be nice to add two fields on your WWDC Meet Up page : which> >>> company and which hotel they are going to > >>> >> I have done this and also added a contact field if anyone want to> >> provide that info as well.> >>> >> http://www.global-village.net/chill.at.gvc> >>> >> Chuck> >> ___> >> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. > >> Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)> >> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:> >> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/lists%> >> 40anderhome.com> >>> >> This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> --> Coming sometime... - an introduction to web applications using> WebObjects and Xcode http://www.global-village.net/wointro >> Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their> overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific> problems. http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects>>>>> ___> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. > Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/jmlittle%40gmail.com>> This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]> ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/geoff.hopson%40gmail.comThis email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/womail%40mac.comThis email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Another t-shirt
I just finished setting up my own Cafe Press store, for ladies only: http://www.cafepress.com/wowomen (ok, guys can wear them too but you might get some funny looks :) janine ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
App organization
In my day job I build websites the old fashioned way, using scripting languages, and I would organize the site I'm building something like this: User pages are generally at the root of the site, so we might have / - home page /panels - list of all panels of license plates (these are pictures of the panels in the museum) /panel-detail - info about a selected panel Admin pages are in their own directory (which shows up in the URL) /admin - list of available tasks /admin/add - add a new panel And so on. I know that it is standard practice to use Apache Rewrite Rules to make pretty URLs, and I presume I could probably get my site to work this way if I wanted to, but I have a hunch that this is not the WO Way. I have read that some folks make the admin pages a separate application, but in this case that seems like overkill; the main site will contain 3 or 4 pages. On the other hand I would like to use Apache to password protect the admin area, so I don't have to implement user logins in my first app, and that means I do need something in the URL to hang that off of. So... what would be the proper WO Way to approach this? thanks, janine ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: Having trouble with WOFileUpload
ests to the list. They will be ignored.Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/womail%40mac.comThis email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/womail%40mac.comThis email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/lists%40anderhome.comThis email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
How to rename a component in Xcode?
I want to change the name of a page component, and it looks like the only way to do this is to find each use of the old name and rename it manually. Is that true, or am I missing some magic feature? (I tried Google and an Xcode book, but no luck) thanks, janine ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: Having trouble with WOFileUpload
Well, I'll be hornswoggled. Or however that saying goes.After going off to do something else, then coming back to it and not having any more luck, I finally decided to try something I remembered reading about and deleted the build directory. *Presto* my NPE went away and my BLOB upload is working.So, I wasn't doing anything wrong, Xcode just got confused.I feel so much better! Now I can go watch Bill Maher perform tonight without wondering how to solve this problem. :)janineOn Jul 22, 2006, at 10:42 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Well, I think I need some more help here.I removed one of my WOFileUploads, so now I have a form, with enctype set to "formdata/multi-part", that contains a WOTextField, a WOTextArea, and the one WOFileUpload. And, of course, a Submit button.If I bind the data attribute of the WOFileUpload directly to the corresponding attribute in my entity, I get no errors, but the BLOB column in the database remains null. Same if I bind it to an intermediate variable of type NSData, then use that to set the value of the entity attribute.I tried adding this line to my saveAction method in Add.java, to see if I was actually getting any data from the browser, but it causes a Null Pointer Exception:NSLog.out.appendln("length of nsdata = " + uploadedThumbnail.length());So I'm still stuck; I don't know why I'm getting an NPE, and I don't know how to debug the upload problem.I will go do some more Googling for other people's file upload problems, but any suggestions would be most appreciated!janineOn Jul 21, 2006, at 11:38 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:I'm building my first WO app (not counting the tutorial) and I'm stuck. First time of many, I'm sure. :)My goal is to duplicate this site: http://www.nhlpm.org. We put that together as a temporary site for a former neighbor, who has a license plate museum in his garage. Right now it's static HTML, and the long-term goal is to build him a really snazzy site to showcase his collection. But for now I just want to duplicate what's there, which means (disregarding the intro page) I need one display page and one set of add/edit/delete pages.My entity is called Panel, and I made it through all the EOModeler/FrontBase stuff without too much trouble. I decided to write the "add" page first, since I need to get something into the database before I can do anything else. So first I wrote an add page that just handled the title and description, and life is good. Data is making it's way into the database just fine.Now I need to handle the thumbnail and full-sized images. I knew this would be the hard part; I've seen a number of people having trouble with WOFileUpload. So I started out simple - no file type checking or anything, just get the data into the database.The two attributes are called thumbnail and bigImage, and they are both BLOBs on the database side and NSData on the application side.My first attempt was to put the two WOFileUploads into my form, and bind their data attributes directly to the corresponding entity attributes. No errors, but no data being saved either. I tried this first without the enctype set, then with it set to "multipart/form-data". I also tried binding them to independent NSDatas as well, and then using those to set the ones in the entity, but no luck. My next step is to check the length of those NSDatas and see if the files are being uploaded at all, but it's late and that will have to wait.Is there anything obvious I'm doing wrong here? I thought I read a discussion of this not too long ago on one of the lists, but Google isn't finding it for me.thanks,janine___Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/womail%40mac.comThis email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/womail%40mac.comThis email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___
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Re: Having trouble with WOFileUpload
Well, I think I need some more help here.I removed one of my WOFileUploads, so now I have a form, with enctype set to "formdata/multi-part", that contains a WOTextField, a WOTextArea, and the one WOFileUpload. And, of course, a Submit button.If I bind the data attribute of the WOFileUpload directly to the corresponding attribute in my entity, I get no errors, but the BLOB column in the database remains null. Same if I bind it to an intermediate variable of type NSData, then use that to set the value of the entity attribute.I tried adding this line to my saveAction method in Add.java, to see if I was actually getting any data from the browser, but it causes a Null Pointer Exception:NSLog.out.appendln("length of nsdata = " + uploadedThumbnail.length());So I'm still stuck; I don't know why I'm getting an NPE, and I don't know how to debug the upload problem.I will go do some more Googling for other people's file upload problems, but any suggestions would be most appreciated!janineOn Jul 21, 2006, at 11:38 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:I'm building my first WO app (not counting the tutorial) and I'm stuck. First time of many, I'm sure. :)My goal is to duplicate this site: http://www.nhlpm.org. We put that together as a temporary site for a former neighbor, who has a license plate museum in his garage. Right now it's static HTML, and the long-term goal is to build him a really snazzy site to showcase his collection. But for now I just want to duplicate what's there, which means (disregarding the intro page) I need one display page and one set of add/edit/delete pages.My entity is called Panel, and I made it through all the EOModeler/FrontBase stuff without too much trouble. I decided to write the "add" page first, since I need to get something into the database before I can do anything else. So first I wrote an add page that just handled the title and description, and life is good. Data is making it's way into the database just fine.Now I need to handle the thumbnail and full-sized images. I knew this would be the hard part; I've seen a number of people having trouble with WOFileUpload. So I started out simple - no file type checking or anything, just get the data into the database.The two attributes are called thumbnail and bigImage, and they are both BLOBs on the database side and NSData on the application side.My first attempt was to put the two WOFileUploads into my form, and bind their data attributes directly to the corresponding entity attributes. No errors, but no data being saved either. I tried this first without the enctype set, then with it set to "multipart/form-data". I also tried binding them to independent NSDatas as well, and then using those to set the ones in the entity, but no luck. My next step is to check the length of those NSDatas and see if the files are being uploaded at all, but it's late and that will have to wait.Is there anything obvious I'm doing wrong here? I thought I read a discussion of this not too long ago on one of the lists, but Google isn't finding it for me.thanks,janine___Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/womail%40mac.comThis email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___
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Re: Having trouble with WOFileUpload
David, thanks for the advice! I think you are right that uploading one image and generating the rest is a better idea. Finally, there are lots of opinions of whether to store the images in the database or on the filesystem. I decided on the former for ease of management and use mysql as the db. I think the pros outweigh the cons in my situation. This is never going to be a very busy site, so performance really isn't an issue. If you do store the images in the database be sure to store them and their immediate attributes (i.e filename, nsdata-small, nsdata- large, mimetype) in their own table. I am curious why you say they should be in their own table, though. I can't think of any advantage of doing it that way - what am I missing? thanks, janine ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Having trouble with WOFileUpload
I'm building my first WO app (not counting the tutorial) and I'm stuck. First time of many, I'm sure. :) My goal is to duplicate this site: http://www.nhlpm.org. We put that together as a temporary site for a former neighbor, who has a license plate museum in his garage. Right now it's static HTML, and the long-term goal is to build him a really snazzy site to showcase his collection. But for now I just want to duplicate what's there, which means (disregarding the intro page) I need one display page and one set of add/edit/delete pages. My entity is called Panel, and I made it through all the EOModeler/ FrontBase stuff without too much trouble. I decided to write the "add" page first, since I need to get something into the database before I can do anything else. So first I wrote an add page that just handled the title and description, and life is good. Data is making it's way into the database just fine. Now I need to handle the thumbnail and full-sized images. I knew this would be the hard part; I've seen a number of people having trouble with WOFileUpload. So I started out simple - no file type checking or anything, just get the data into the database. The two attributes are called thumbnail and bigImage, and they are both BLOBs on the database side and NSData on the application side. My first attempt was to put the two WOFileUploads into my form, and bind their data attributes directly to the corresponding entity attributes. No errors, but no data being saved either. I tried this first without the enctype set, then with it set to "multipart/form- data". I also tried binding them to independent NSDatas as well, and then using those to set the ones in the entity, but no luck. My next step is to check the length of those NSDatas and see if the files are being uploaded at all, but it's late and that will have to wait. Is there anything obvious I'm doing wrong here? I thought I read a discussion of this not too long ago on one of the lists, but Google isn't finding it for me. thanks, janine ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: WWDC Security concern
oscone.AlanOn Jul 18, 2006, at 12:47 PM, Miguel Arroz wrote: Hi! I booked my stay in Mark Twain Hotel:<http://www.google.com/maps?hl=en&lr=&c2coff=1&safe=off&client=safari&rls=en&q=mark+twain&near=San+Francisco,+CA&cid=0,0,10936642302192841740&ll=37.785510,-122.411343&spn=0,.02&iwstate1=form:to&sa=X&oi=local&ct=directions-to> Some reviews say it's crap, some say it's good. I guess it's goodenough for me, but I got worried about one review, that says it's abad location of SF. For you guys who know SF, how bad is it? I don'tmind about prostitution and stuff, but is it OK to carry my bag withthe powerbook every WWDC day (specially the meet-up day, that endsby 10pm)? YoursMiguel Arroz "GUERRA E' PAZ LIBERDADE E' ESCRAVIDAO IGNORANCIA E' FORCA" -- 1984Miguel Arrozhttp://www.ipragma.com___Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award%40apple.comThis email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/marcrespass%40mac.comThis email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/blenko%40martingalesystems.comThis email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___WebObjects-dev mailing list[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/webobjects-dev ___WebObjects-dev mailing list[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/webobjects-dev ___WebObjects-dev mailing list[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/webobjects-dev ___WebObjects-dev mailing list[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/webobjects-dev ___Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/womail%40mac.comThis email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: [SEMI-SOVLED] WOFileUpload + WORepetition, how to?
On Jul 20, 2006, at 11:15 AM, Chuck Hill wrote: Of course, keeping the database and the file system in synch can be tricky. Especially for backups. If someone uploads a new file while your database dump is in process, it'll be in your filesystem backup but not in your database dump, effectively making it an orphan if you have to restore from that backup. I'm sure there are ways the reverse can happen as well. janine ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: WWDC WO Meet Up List
Sounds good to me. Thanks for doing the organizing! janine On Jul 19, 2006, at 4:24 PM, Joe Little wrote: A quick question. Would people mind throwing in another dollar up front to get more upfront food (another dish?) I ask since we are now at around 70 people so that little bit we have might not stretch. The extra people already gives us $20 more than we need for the current food, but its still shy of another dish (~$75-80) On 7/18/06, Joe Little <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: And with that, we now have 61 people attending. Let's just try to keep this below 100 so we don't run out of space ;) On 7/18/06, Chuck Hill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Now that is thinking. Done! > > http://www.gvcsitemaker.com/chill.at.gvc > > > On Jul 18, 2006, at 10:48 AM, Miguel Arroz wrote: > > > Hi! > > > > Is it possible to add this info to the Chuck's CMS, so that all > > the meet-up info is centralized into one place? > > > > Yours > > > > Miguel Arroz > > > > On 2006/07/18, at 18:40, Joe Little wrote: > > > >> http://www.thirstybear.com/ > >> > >> (there is an interactive directions link) > >> > >> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&hl=en&ie=UTF8&saddr=4th+St+%26 > >> +Howard+St,+San+Francisco,+CA+94103&daddr=661+howard+street,+san > >> +francisco,+ca&om=1 > >> > >> (yes, these are driving directions. Its really that close!) > >> > >> Current food selection and pricing breakdown follows. At 20% gratuity > >> and tax, the food part bumps up another $1. Therefore, expect at > >> least > >> $6/person at the door to me, and then drink up! > >> > >> $125/No host bar set-up fee > >> $15 per person/Bar tab minimum = $750 > >> 2 tapas platters of your choice (I recommended our Albondigas > >> (spanish > >> meatballs) $75 & Patatas Pimenton (crispy red potatoes w/blue > >> cheese aioli > >> on the side) $80. > >> = $1030 = $20.60 per person > >> (tax and service charge are not included on the food, estimate = > >> $46.81) > >> ___ > >> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. > >> Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects- [EMAIL PROTECTED]) > >> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: > >> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/arroz% > >> 40guiamac.com > >> > >> This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > "GUERRA E' PAZ > >LIBERDADE E' ESCRAVIDAO > >IGNORANCIA E' FORCA" -- 1984 > > > > Miguel Arroz > > http://www.ipragma.com > > > > > > > > -- > Coming sometime... - an introduction to web applications using > WebObjects and Xcode http://www.global-village.net/wointro > > Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their > overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific > problems.http://www.global-village.net/products/ practical_webobjects > > > > > ___ > Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. > Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) > Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: > http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/jmlittle% 40gmail.com > > This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/womail%40mac.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Calling all women going to WWDC
All these t-shirt ideas floating around have given me an idea of my own. If you're going to WWDC and would be interested in having a t- shirt of our own, please e-mail me. If enough people like my idea, I'll get it set up at cafepress.com. janine ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: WWDC WO Meet
Well, although Open Mic night could be kind of painful to be around, they might have a separate room for large groups. Hopefully soundproofed. :) janine On Jul 12, 2006, at 1:54 PM, Joe Little wrote: Just looked at it, and it appears that at 7:30pm that night open-mic night is on, so an event there is already planned. On 7/12/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Josh suggests the Hotel Utah (http://www.thehotelutahsaloon.com). From a quick look at their website they have WiFi and an event planning contact, both of which seem like good things. Does someone local want to contact them? If not I will do it, but someone who could go by and take a look at the place would be best. janine On Jul 12, 2006, at 1:07 PM, Joe Little wrote: > Here's an idea. Instead of us all trying to find a good pub that has > room for us, etc, would it not be reasonable to just have a > "reception" at the King George meeting room. We can get bar service or > something like that. Selection, of course, may not be as wide, but it > may be the easier thing to do: > > http://www.kinggeorge.com/meetingroom.html > > I was the one who suggested 21st Amendment, but we'd definitely be in > the private area or require the entire place to reserved, and we are > talking at least $500 up front plus up front pre-purchased appetizer > (at least 1) -- my guess is $1K or more down. > > Someone recommended another place that they knew the owner of, and > there was mention of Joshua Marker looking as well. So, that's the > status as such. Of course, we can make this the official pre-press > signing of Chuck's and Sacha's book event :) > > On 7/12/06, Chuck Hill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> On Jul 11, 2006, at 6:13 AM, Pascal Robert wrote: >> >> > BTW, which hotel are you going ? We're going to King George, >> > anyone WO dudes going there too ? >> >> I am at the King George, my home away from home in SF. >> >> Chuck >> >> >> -- >> Coming sometime... - an introduction to web applications using >> WebObjects and Xcode http://www.global-village.net/wointro >> >> Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their >> overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific >> problems.http://www.global-village.net/products/ >> practical_webobjects >> >> >> >> >> ___ >> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >> Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) >> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/jmlittle% >> 40gmail.com >> >> This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > ___ > Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. > Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) > Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: > http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/womail% 40mac.com > > This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: WWDC WO Meet
Josh suggests the Hotel Utah (http://www.thehotelutahsaloon.com). From a quick look at their website they have WiFi and an event planning contact, both of which seem like good things. Does someone local want to contact them? If not I will do it, but someone who could go by and take a look at the place would be best. janine On Jul 12, 2006, at 1:07 PM, Joe Little wrote: Here's an idea. Instead of us all trying to find a good pub that has room for us, etc, would it not be reasonable to just have a "reception" at the King George meeting room. We can get bar service or something like that. Selection, of course, may not be as wide, but it may be the easier thing to do: http://www.kinggeorge.com/meetingroom.html I was the one who suggested 21st Amendment, but we'd definitely be in the private area or require the entire place to reserved, and we are talking at least $500 up front plus up front pre-purchased appetizer (at least 1) -- my guess is $1K or more down. Someone recommended another place that they knew the owner of, and there was mention of Joshua Marker looking as well. So, that's the status as such. Of course, we can make this the official pre-press signing of Chuck's and Sacha's book event :) On 7/12/06, Chuck Hill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Jul 11, 2006, at 6:13 AM, Pascal Robert wrote: > BTW, which hotel are you going ? We're going to King George, > anyone WO dudes going there too ? I am at the King George, my home away from home in SF. Chuck -- Coming sometime... - an introduction to web applications using WebObjects and Xcode http://www.global-village.net/wointro Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific problems.http://www.global-village.net/products/ practical_webobjects ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/jmlittle% 40gmail.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/womail%40mac.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: WWDC WO Meet
Cool, I signed up. I e-mailed Josh Marker last night and asked if he has any suggestions for a venue (he lives in SF) and he had a place he was going to call to see if they could handle us. Hopefully he'll show up here and let us know if he found a place. janine On Jul 11, 2006, at 10:03 AM, Chuck Hill wrote: If anyone wants to use it, I threw this together: http://www.gvcsitemaker.com/chill.at.gvc Chuck On Jul 11, 2006, at 7:26 AM, William Hatch wrote: Last years get together was a great time, and I'm looking forward to doing it again. I'd prefer Monday. Is anybody keeping score on the head count? Sounds like a pretty simple app that coordinated this might not be a bad idea. I know last year there was a lot of last minute confusion over where and when the get together was to occur. Any takers? ;-)) On Jul 11, 2006, at 9:35 AM, David LeBer wrote: On 11-Jul-06, at 1:35 AM, Joe Little wrote: Yes, its pretty damn big at this point. Question is wether the usual Apple people might show up as well. If so, perhaps they can help at least set us up somewhere (a tad more official) even if the drinks/food is not covered. In the past Apple has always shied away from officially sanctioning BOF kind of gatherings. Usually the community is left to they're own devices. If money is the limiting factor, I'd be willing to pony up some cash to make this happen (providing hat passing occurs during the event :-). Or does any one have a paypal account we can use? On 7/10/06, Guido Neitzer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On 11.07.2006, at 6:55 Uhr, King Chung Huang wrote: > Another vote for Monday. +1 As it seems, there are a lot of people interested, we should think of a location capable of that crowd. Anybody a good suggestion for currently about 40+ people (estimated, not counted ... ;-))? cug -- ;david -- David LeBer Codeferous Software 'co-defer-ous' adj. producing or containing code site: http://www.codeferous.com blog: http://david.codeferous.com -- Toronto Area Cocoa / WebObjects developers group: http://www.tacow.org ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/wh72% 40cornell.edu This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bill ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/chill% 40global-village.net This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Coming sometime... - an introduction to web applications using WebObjects and Xcode http://www.global-village.net/wointro Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific problems.http://www.global-village.net/products/ practical_webobjects ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/womail%40mac.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: WWDC WO Meet
I'm not sure where you counted me, but Monday is probably best for me as well. On Jul 8, 2006, at 5:58 AM, Mike Schrag wrote: After adding my votes to either Mon or Wed People Coming So Far: 21 Mon: 6 Total - 2 Prefer, 4 Are OK Tue: 1 Total - 1 Prefer Wed: 4 Total - 2 Prefer, 2 Are OK Thu: 1 Total - 1 Prefer ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/womail%40mac.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: WWDC WO Meet
Hear, hear! I am already awaiting delivery of a Daring Fireball t- shirt and would gladly order up some WOwear as well. janine On Jul 7, 2006, at 9:50 AM, Ken Anderson wrote: Mike, That one's great! Never saw it before. Is there any other great WO apparel? Are there any legal issues to printing 'WebObjects' on shirts? It would be really nice for all the people at WWDC to see people walking around with shirts that actually said "WebObjects". Ken On Jul 7, 2006, at 9:50 AM, Mike Schrag wrote: I'm a sucker for custom t-shirts ... I'll be at least sporting my signature fall line of WO t-shirts this year, including the hot new 3D stack of EOs t-shirt ( http://www.cafepress.com/mschrag. 26145098 ). I'll be happy to do up an illustrator remake of one of the Powered By WebObjects badges (or other ideas) on a shirt if people want. Google Images shows three variations of the WO badge: http://www.objectfactory.co.jp/images/PoweredByWebObjects-NX.gif http://cameo.njit.edu/WebObjects/SigForm.woa/WebServerResources/ poweredbywebobjects_lrg.jpg http://fadis.library.utoronto.ca/PoweredByWebObjects.gif ms On Jul 7, 2006, at 6:38 AM, Matteo Centro wrote: BTW: what if we, WebObjects people, did a special t-shirt? I remember a couple of years ago, WO guys had a "Powered by WebObjects" on their badge... ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/lists% 40anderhome.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/womail%40mac.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: WWDC WO Meet
On Jul 5, 2006, at 12:23 PM, Mike Schrag wrote: No Anjo. No Chuck. What's going on here? Since he's Internet-less during the work day, I'll speak for Jerry - he isn't sure yet if he can go either. I, however, will be there, and am interested in any and all social events. janine ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: Stuck in chapter 3 of the Mendis book
Hi Wolfram, I hear where you're coming from; I tried to work through this book once before, but ran into all these little problems and eventually lost interest. But I am not as big a fan of the Quickpro book as some others are. I actually want a book I can work through from step to step, and I found out (after much confusion) that although that book *looks* like it would work that way, it actually doesn't and isn't meant to. I do find the Mendis book to be seriously lacking, though, in clarity, in explanations of why things are done the way they are, and in teaching style. Someday Chuck's beginner book will come out and all will be right with the world. :) thanks, janine On Jun 29, 2006, at 12:35 AM, Wolfram Stebel wrote: Am 29.06.2006 8:57 Uhr schrieb "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" unter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Hi Janine, sorry for blaming Ravi Mendis, but simply drop that book. It does not realy explain the things you need to do, it is not a good reference because you need to work through the whole tutorials to understand small things, and nobody needs an application "Dynamic movies" :-) And in fact, it focuses sometimes on extraordinary hacks without making them too clear. Drop it. That helped me. I have another beginners book instead, Visual Quickpro Guide WebObjects 5 (Josh Marker). It helped me a lot more. After this try Practical WebObjects (Hill, Mallais), that's in depth... Regards Wolfram I'm not sure if the author is being unclear or if I'm being dense, but I'm stuck and hoping someone can help me out here: First problem: We created a new project, which is supposed to become the splash page for the Dynamic Movies app. It has an image, and an image map hand- typed in to Main.html which looks like this: http://www.dell.com";> http://www.apple.com";> http://www.ibm.com";> http://www.sun.com";> Then we created a component called WOArea. He lost me completely at the top of page 44: "Now in the Main component, replace each of the image map area elements with WOArea dynamic elements." I have no idea how to do that. I can add four WOAreas to the page, of course, but how to make them replace the image map? Not a clue. I tried looking at his source code but as usual all traces of this intermediate step are gone, so it didn't help. Second problem: I tried to keep going but got stuck again right away at the top of p. 45: "So create a new component called WOMappedRollover. Cut and paste the elements for the image map (that is the script, the image map itself, and the image) into the WOMappedRollover component." Script? Eh what? I have no idea what he's talking about, and once again the sample code fails me because there doesn't seem to be any trace of this step left in it. Or I'm just not seeing it because I don't know what he's referring to. Has anyone before me figured these out? Or am I just showing my ignorance? Thanks, janine ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/ wolfram.stebel%40bugs-an d-errors.de This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dipl. Inform. Wolfram Stebel, Stebel-Informatik Flutgrabenstr. 19, 35576 Wetzlar Tel. 06441/47633 Mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: www.stebel-informatik.de ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: Stuck in chapter 3 of the Mendis book
Hi Paul, On Jun 29, 2006, at 12:11 AM, Paul Lynch wrote: He meant that you should replace each of the four area lines above with the WOArea component, with appropriate bindings. Which is exactly what he said :-). Well, I wondered if that was what he meant, but since we haven't done any hand-editing of the webobjects tags up to this point, I thought I must be mistaken. Script = Javascript. I'm sure you're probably right, but we haven't entered any javascript so far in this chapter. He's got some in an example on the previous page, but we haven't used it yet. I clearly need to stop taking this book so literally. :) Thanks for the tips, janine ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Stuck in chapter 3 of the Mendis book
I'm not sure if the author is being unclear or if I'm being dense, but I'm stuck and hoping someone can help me out here:First problem:We created a new project, which is supposed to become the splash page for the Dynamic Movies app. It has an image, and an image map hand-typed in to Main.html which looks like this: shape=rect coords="191,137,259,174" href=""http://www.dell.com/">http://www.dell.com"> shape=rect coords="0,80,215,159" href=""http://www.apple.com/">http://www.apple.com"> shape=rect coords="146,52,253,97" href=""http://www.ibm.com/">http://www.ibm.com"> shape=rect coords="204,89,265,128" href=""http://www.sun.com/">http://www.sun.com">Then we created a component called WOArea.He lost me completely at the top of page 44:"Now in the Main component, replace each of the image map area elements with WOArea dynamic elements."I have no idea how to do that. I can add four WOAreas to the page, of course, but how to make them replace the image map? Not a clue. I tried looking at his source code but as usual all traces of this intermediate step are gone, so it didn't help.Second problem:I tried to keep going but got stuck again right away at the top of p. 45:"So create a new component called WOMappedRollover. Cut and paste the elements for the image map (that is the script, the image map itself, and the image) into the WOMappedRollover component."Script? Eh what? I have no idea what he's talking about, and once again the sample code fails me because there doesn't seem to be any trace of this step left in it. Or I'm just not seeing it because I don't know what he's referring to.Has anyone before me figured these out? Or am I just showing my ignorance?Thanks,janine ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: State of WebObjects
From what I hear, Rails has some significant limitations. Such as, it doesn't handle Unicode, and it doesn't scale well under load. I don't know these from first-hand experience but I've heard them from sources I trust. WO has been around a while and has matured in a way that Rails just can't hope to do in the time it has existed. I agree with all the other benefits others have listed, and I'll add that if you are an Apple fan, there is something uplifting about working with Apple tools. Call it what you want - coolness factor, mojo, good design, whatever. Although I know some would disagree where XCode is concerned. ;) janine On Jun 28, 2006, at 12:44 PM, Scott Henderson wrote: Hi, I am researching WO for use in an upcoming project. Since I am new to this list, I do not have a feel for what is going on with WO or the WO Community. I would love to hear Good/Bad comments concerning the WO Development Environment. Any comparison to Ruby on Rails would be helpful, as well. I might also point out that I am new to Object-Based Programming, thus, I will need to devote substantial time acquiring the needed skills. That is why I ask about the State of WebObjects... is it worth investing one's valuable time or has it been superceded by new, improved technologies? Thanks for any comments. Scott ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/womail%40mac.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Perforce + XCode + WO?
I've been messing around with this combination and something just isn't right. If I open main.java in XCode, as soon as I try to change it I get a warning that it's read-only and an offer to unlock it via the SCM I've configured. No problem there. If I open main.wo, I get no such warning, nor do I have any problem making a change to main.html and saving it. Looking at it after the fact, all three files in main.wo are writeable. They were checked in to Perforce along with everything else so I assume that WO Builder just "fixed" the permissions for me. Even worse, when I go to commit changes the changes I made inside main.wo are not committed, nor is anything said about them. They just sit there silently. If I go over to p4v and look at my client, I can see and diff the changed files. But because they aren't checked out, they aren't in a changelist and cannot be committed (at least, not in the usual straightforward way). So does this mean that XCode's commit facility is useless for use with Perforce and WO? Or am I missing something? thanks, janine ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
To WWDC, or not to WWDC...
I've never been to a WWDC and I was thinking of going this year, but so far I haven't heard of any WO-related content at all. The only thing of use to me in the Development Tools track so far would be using XCode, and I'm not sure that's worth the time and expense. Of course, the description of the Track ends with "and more" and they could have lots of WO goodness in the works. So what do you more experienced WWDCers think - is this going to be a year to go, or a year to stay home? janine ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: New Web Components failing to compile?
On Mar 27, 2006, at 5:00 PM, Chuck Hill wrote: Those are my top reasons. There are many more. I was just reading my e-mail, minding my own business, when suddenly this infernal whistling started up. I thought it was coming from the computer, but it seemed to surround me, penetrating my brain and causing me to be seized with a sudden urge to run outside and stare at the sun with my bare eyes. Ow! I need (an) Eclipse :) Ok... must try Eclipse. I get that part. But you've said yourself that you expect EOModeler and WOBuilder to eventually be rolled into one giant Xcode-Borg thing. How do you plan to keep working with Eclipse once that happens?That is, without so much pain that the benefits are no longer so compelling? janine ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: Site management strategies with Subversion
Ok, now we're getting somewhere. If I can do this on a per-file basis then that's not quite so bad; it wasn't clear to me from the documentation that this was possible. It's still not ideal; it's much more convenient to do "cvs tag -F stable x.java, x.html, x.js" than it is to look up and use a revision number. But I suppose I can live with that. I don't have a problem with committing related changes together, and not mixing several changes into a single commit. I generally do things this way now, to keep my commit messages on message, so to speak. :) But I also know that I occasionally have a brain fart and forget to list the filenames, leading to everything in the current directory and below getting committed. Assuming svn works the same way the same thing can happen, so we can't completely rule out having to do that. However, it seems like the above would work in either case. My concern has been that doing "svn merge -r 60" will pull in every change that has been committed to the entire repository in versions 43-60, *to all files*, and that's almost never what I want. I don't understand why the Subversion folks are so dead set against file-based tags. As I said in a post to the user's list at the end of the last fight over this, it seems like their dominant argument is that Subversion rulez and CVS droolz, and anything that people want because CVS has it must be inherently evil. That just doesn't seem like a productive way to design software to me. Thanks, Arturo! janine On Mar 14, 2006, at 1:08 PM, Arturo Perez wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was just looking at the branching/merging chapter of the red- bean book, and it looks like not even having my own working branch is going to completely save me, because when you go to merge changes it's still based on a revision, not on a per-file basis. So I'm still stuck with having work in progress pulled in along with the work I'm ready to publish, if that work in progress has been committed. Well, again. if your changes are to one file for one feature then there's no problem. The above is only a problem if you want to merge 1 file from a set of 8 that implemented a change. But I don't see why you'd want to do that. Let's say you changed files x.java, x.html, and x.js to add the latest nifty pulldown calendar function. You committed them and so they are revision 60. Your production version is in tags/ production and is revision 42. So you go to the place where you keep tags/production and the subdirectory containing x.java and you do (I think) svn merge -r 60 x.java Similarly for x.html and x.js. Is there _any_ situation where you'd only want to merge 1 of those three files despite the fact that all three of them are required to implement the feature? I don't see why. I do understand your concern that if you go to your production copy and you do a svn merge -r 60 you'll get all the changes between 42 and 60. I agree that you don't want that, generally speaking. But does the above do what you want? I do like (not!) how the subversion documentation totally ignores/ downplays how important doing a single file merge is. The only thing I've found after googling for a bit was the one liner at the end of http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.0/re16.html -arturo ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: Site management strategies with Subversion
On Mar 14, 2006, at 12:33 PM, Lachlan Deck wrote: I'm not sure I'm understanding why your frameworkA and frameworkB aren't in their own respective svn repository. That way they have their own version numbers and, of course, your application(s) can depend on certain versions of them... They can be, sure, but even that does not prevent frameworkA from having both a long-term development task and an immediate fix both going on at the same time. So the same situation can still occur, though it's probably less likely if things are split up like that. janine ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: Site management strategies with Subversion
On Mar 14, 2006, at 12:13 PM, Geoff Hopson wrote: Remind us againwhy do you want to leave CVS? :-) Heh. Not such a bad question, obviously! I started looking into this because moving to WebObjects means leaving behind nearly everything we have been doing for the last 7 years, and with all the buzz about how there are finally decent alternatives to CVS I thought it was time to look into it. I've never been a huge fan of CVS in general; branching is like a voodoo art, and so is following how it assigns version numbers. As I mentioned earlier I had hoped to avoid Subversion, but it seems to be the current "lowest common denominator" of source-code control; if you want something that's free, reasonably easy to use, works for everyone and from anywhere, you use Subversion or CVS. I thought the whole "tags are really branches" concept was a bit funky when I first heard about it, but I didn't really care until I realized how much it was going to impact how we do things. As big a pain as this is turning out to be, I'm going to keep on working with it for the moment, because even if I decide I can't work with Subversion I'm likely to run into a client who likes it at some point, so I need to at least be able to be functional with it. I'm also posting to the subversion user's list hoping to find out that there is an easier way of doing things than the one I described. But I'm not holding my breath. janine ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: Optimistic locking failure on insert
No problem, just use your SCC package to compare the current code to
the last known good version and see what has changed.
Oh, wait.
janine :)
On Mar 13, 2006, at 10:09 PM, Ian Joyner wrote:
I have been running this model for six months and saving this
entity just fine. Suddenly, I am getting an optimistic locking
failure when doing an insert of a new record (that's right insert,
not update). In fact is the trace below, I show that the offending
record is in the editing contexts insertedObjects and it has a
EOTemporaryGlobalID which means it has not been written to the
database yet.
No SQL commands are being executed in the SQL trace. I have turned
off locking on every attribute for this entity in EOModeler. Other
entities are still saving fine. So what's going on? How can I get
around this problem?
[2006-03-14 16:53:56 EST]
xxx.client.Member_interface_controller save inserted ({values =
{details = ;
begin_date = 2006-03-14 05:53:51 Etc/GMT; position =
; member =
"0 -64 -88 0 7 0 0 -15 83 1 0 0 0 1 9 -9 81 65 -102 58 -107 -26
-116>>"; end_date = $Null>; group = "("65 -102 58 -107 -26 -116>>"); person = "null"; title =
"_EOIntegralKeyGlobalID[Title (java.lang.Integer)1]>"; telephones =
(); modification_date = 2006-03-14 05:53:51 Etc/GMT; }; this =
"0 -64 -88 0 7 0 0 -15 83 1 0 0 0 1 9 -9 81 65 -102 58 -107 -26
-116>>"; })
[2006-03-14 16:53:56 EST]
xxx.client.Member_interface_controller save updated (Gq)
[2006-03-14 16:53:56 EST]
xxx.client.Member_interface_controller save deleted ()
[2006-03-14 16:53:56 EST]
xxx.client.Member_interface_controller EditingContext saveChanges
failed Server exception: Optimistic locking failure: The object
with global ID 0 0 1 9 -9 81 65 -102 58 -107 -26 -116> has been changed by another
client
Thanks
Ian Joyner
Sportstec
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