RE: [WSG] Ikon, where are you?
quote And before anyone gets too harsh, think how you'd like to be treated when you accidently commit the same sin. Thanks, Ben WSG Core/quote Personally, I'd hope someone reamed me a new one for being so ignorant so that I would learn - not all lists or people are as forgiving of the stupidity of others. It is NOT hard at all to do as you said, unsubscribe or simply set up a filter - better yet, DON'T EVEN USE AUTO-REPLY. Just my two cents on the matter :-/ Brian Grimmer theGrafixGuy http://www.thegrafixguy.com 503-887-4943 925-226-4085 (fax) This reply to your initial e-mail is sent in accordance with the US CAN-SPAM Law in effect 01/01/2004. Removal requests can be sent to this address and will be honored and respected. -Original Message- From: Ben Bishop [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 9:22 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Ikon, where are you? Hi Ted, This reply is recognition of your post, though the message is for all list members: Yes, Out of Office are annoying. This one particularly, as the automated response was sending back to the list. Usually they're set to reply to the original poster. The ever vigilant Core group keep an ever watchful eye for OoO replies, quickly unsubscribing offenders and emailing explanations with directions for signing back up. What can list members do to help? At least two things: 1. Patience. Please do not speed the growing annoyance by venting to the list. The offender will be removed at the first available opportunity. (We try not to let friends, family or fine drinking get in the way of keeping this list in check.) 2. Virtue. If you're going to be out of the office, be it for a holiday, work junket or major surgery, please do not boast to the list. Either set some sort of tricky filter in your email client, or simply unsubscribe from the list for the duration. And before anyone gets too harsh, think how you'd like to be treated when you accidently commit the same sin. Thanks, Ben WSG Core * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] Ruby - where to learn more and see examples of its uses
Been seeing a lot mentioned about RUBY. Can anyone point out some resources for information on this besides W3C? W3C is great for a detailed technical overview but seeing realistic real world examples and how it is used is more informative from a designers standpoint. Thanks. Brian Grimmer theGrafixGuy http://www.thegrafixguy.com 503-887-4943 925-226-4085 (fax) This reply to your initial e-mail is sent in accordance with the US CAN-SPAM Law in effect 01/01/2004. Removal requests can be sent to this address and will be honored and respected. From: Mordechai Peller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2004 5:26 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] What Editors do you guys use? Rick Faaberg wrote: What is Ruby? Contrary to what others seem to have thought, I meant the Ruby Annotation specification from the W3C: http://www.w3.org/TR/ruby/ I mentioned Ruby support not because I think it's that useful in most instances, but rather what having the support says about the thoroughness of TopStyle Pro 3.10 as a Web standards editor. BTW, searching on ruby+editor isn't correct. http://www.google.com/search?q=ruby+site%3Aw3c.org works well.
RE: [WSG] legal requirements for accessability
Hear Hear, Excellent Post! Another tip I have found to be very successful, is the following quote (and this was told to me by a client!) The client is not paying you for the few minutes it takes to change the site from blue to green, he is paying you to know what buttons to push and what methods to use to best implement this - if the client is billed $100 for a 30 second change that occurs site wide - they are going to think they got off cheap and you are going to feel like a bandit who got away with the king's jewels! Especially, since you did it so quickly for them. It's a win - win situation! You look good and so does the client! Sincerely, Brian Grimmer theGrafixGuy http://www.thegrafixguy.com 503-887-4943 925-226-4085 (fax) This reply to your initial e-mail is sent in accordance with the US CAN-SPAM Law in effect 01/01/2004. Removal requests can be sent to this address and will be honored and respected. -Original Message- From: Michael Kear [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 2:38 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] legal requirements for accessability There's a saying in the sales business (/me thinking back all those years to when I was a sales trainer):Sell them what they want, and all the rest comes along for free. If the customer loves the car's hot stereo, sell them the hot stereo and the rest of the car comes along for free. IF the house buyer falls in love with the kitchen, let them have the kitchen, and the rest of the house comes along for free. IF they want an accessible site, sell them an accessible site, and the good design and easy navigation comes along for free. If they want a web presence, sell them a web presence, and the accessible design, good layout, easy navigation comes along for free. SO it's your job when you first meet a prospective client to find out what it is they want. And what they need. (Not necessarily the same things) Then you sell them that. When you build it, you build it as well as it's possible to do, given your cost and time parameters. Just because the client wanted this and that and something else, without mentioning standards compliance, doesn't mean you cant build a site like that. When you get a house built, you tell the builder you want this room, that cupboard, this kind of roof, that kind of bathroom, but he still builds structural strength, water proofing, adequate foundations etc in even if you didn't specify it in your requirements. And as to cost, I've found that building to standards has REDUCED my time (and therefore my cost) to build a site. By forcing discipline on my html code, and completely separating content and presentation, it's made many things more simple. And since the ongoing maintenance of the site is FAR easier, it's going to make the cost of ownership of a site over the whole life much lower than it would otherwise have been.It's my opinion that if you are losing business because you are quoting on standards-compliant sites, then you're doing it all wrong. Standards compliance should give you a competitive advantage over the other mugs who haven't learned about standards yet. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lachlan Hardy Sent: Wednesday, 26 May 2004 5:57 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] legal requirements for accessability [snip] So, please, folks, while we're here : How do you get your clients to care about accessibility? Are you dealing with folks large enough that they actually consider the chance that they might be sued, or do they actually care if people can use their site? The same goes for standards, actually. I understand the concept of just doing it. And that's what I do. Until the client asks about such and such and I let slip either of those cursed words : 'standards' or 'accessibility'. Whoa. Reign in there, fella! Who told you to go around doing things like this? How much is that costing me? Every time I have quoted for a job by mentioning standards or accessibility, my quote has been rejected. If I don't mention it in the quote and it comes up later, I'm royally stuffed I may be drifting off the thread here. Hell, I may have cut it! But I feel the point is pertinent : my clients don't care about the legalities, and if I try to push the point, they are no longer my client So, how do the rest of you deal with this? * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting
RE: [WSG] Re: digest for wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Personally, though I prefer the idea of a forum, the biggest issue I have with an e-mail list is the twits that do not know how to set up an auto-responder properly. If ANYTHING is a waste of bandwidth, that is. I am sure the list could care a less if your off for a few days tinkering for whatever reason in your personal closet. It is this same issue that is seriously making me reconsider the groups value overall. Brian Grimmer theGrafixGuy http://www.thegrafixguy.com 503-887-4943 925-226-4085 (fax) This reply to your initial e-mail is sent in accordance with the US CAN-SPAM Law in effect 01/01/2004. Removal requests can be sent to this address and will be honored and respected. -Original Message- From: Chris Bentley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 6:56 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Re: digest for [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'm opposed to forking the list. I second j.neen's suggestion for a tread-based forum. This list is threaded.. http://www.mail-archive.com/wsg%40webstandardsgroup.org/ That is how my mail reader displays it it too. Maybe you could try mail software which threads. Also, I prefer an RSS feed of the thread as my way to review. The RSS format is not threaded its flat? chris * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] What am I doing wrong with the CSS here
I am getting different positions in IE and in Mozilla and now that I have added in a scrolling division, everything has gone wacky??? This is trying to be a completely standards and accessibility compliant site and I keep screwing up somewhere in my CSS for both the intro page and the main site look and causing things to display completely differently in IE and MOZ and now have broken something somewhere. The intro page is at http://www.mosincorporated.com/site2/index.php and its css is located at http://www.mosincorporated.com/site2/i.css The main page of the site is http://www.mosincorporated.com/site2/main.php and its css is http://www.mosincorporated.com/site2/s.css Thank you for the help. Brian Grimmer theGrafixGuy 918 N. Prescott St. Portland, Oregon 97217 503-887-4943 925-226-4085 (fax) Website: http://www.thegrafixguy.com e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This e-mail is sent in accordance with the US CAN-SPAM Law in effect 01/01/2004. Removal requests can be sent to this address and will be honored and respected.
RE: [WSG] [OT] UniversalHead blog (Out of office)
Can't we do SOMETHING about these Out of office replies? Sheesh! Brian Grimmer theGrafixGuy http://www.thegrafixguy.com 503-887-4943 925-226-4085 (fax) This reply to your initial e-mail is sent in accordance with the US CAN-SPAM Law in effect 01/01/2004. Removal requests can be sent to this address and will be honored and respected. -Original Message- From: Leon Wild [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 12:32 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] [OT] UniversalHead blog (Out of office) Sorry, I'm away Wed for personal leave and Thurs AM for study. I will read your email when I return. For any urgent Intranet queries or assistance please contact Marion Haworth on 02 9230 8542 or [EMAIL PROTECTED] Many thanks, Leon Wild. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/18/04 17:28 OT I know, but then it is web standards savvy, thanks to Todd Dominey's original template (though I've modified the graphics quite a bit): http://www.headlesshollow.com No doubt you all know about the web standards friendly relaunch of Blogger: http://www.blogger.com - which has now made the whole set up process so simple I thought I'd finally launch a blog like everybody else. Just a small start but big modifications in the pipeline, Peter Universal Head Design That Works. 7/43 Bridge Rd Stanmore NSW 2048 Australia T (+612) 9517 1466 F (+612) 9565 4747 E [EMAIL PROTECTED] W www.universalhead.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] What am I doing wrong with the CSS here
Mark, Thanks for the tip there! Okay in Moz everything on the MAIN page http://www.mosincorporated.com/site2/main.php is okay except for the white field with the scrollbars - this div expands pit about 8 pixels further than it should - the white of the menu side should be used as a guide as to what this side should display like. Look Using IE to see how the bottom should line up. In IE the Main http://www.mosincorporated.com/site2/main.php the right side displays as it should and the bottom of the left side is correct, however the top of the left side drops about 8 pixels as the blue and orange bars should line up perfectly as they do on the top in Mozilla For the index page or entrance page http://www.mosincorporated.com/site2/ , IE diplays as it SHOULD display - In Mozilla, my two areas of single line text are dropping about 15 pix or so lower than it does in IE. Additionally the photo creeps up a couple of pixels, the lighter blue bar under the picture I think is in the right spot if the phot were but the lighter blue bar to the left of the photo has a left border that it is NOT supposed to have. I hope that is detailed and accurate enough - I look forward to the help Brian Grimmer theGrafixGuy http://www.thegrafixguy.com 503-887-4943 925-226-4085 (fax) This reply to your initial e-mail is sent in accordance with the US CAN-SPAM Law in effect 01/01/2004. Removal requests can be sent to this address and will be honored and respected. -Original Message- From: Mark Stanton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 1:47 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] What am I doing wrong with the CSS here Hi Brian I've checked your site in both IE Firebird and have run it through the CSS HTML validators (one HTML page fails), but I still can't see the problem. Descriptions such as everything has gone wacky, things to display completely differently and broken something somewhere are not really helping me to identify what you are talking about. Please try to be more descriptive if you really want to get your problem solved. Firstly use a nice descriptive subject line so that people can quickly decide whether or not they are able to assist. Also in the body of your message its important that you go through some basic steps to make sure you're communicating your problem correctly. I find that http://www.mozilla.org/quality/bug-writing-guidelines.html is an excellent resource on how to effectively describe bugs and problems. Also please check out the Asking for help section of this list's guidelines (http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm). http://diveintomark.org/archives/2003/05/05/why_we_wont_help_you might also be helpful. Cheers Mark * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Web safe colours - still relevent ?
With the cell-phones and other portable devices we will likely see a resurgence of web safe colors in my opinion but it would be short lived at best as the technology is moving fast enough that TFT screens will soon be available in even low-end color phones as they are now for PDAs. I guess the final frontier for this will be in the form of watches that can access the net and work with a wireless ear bud or something for voice control/communication. Though my thoughts are why not have your main site use high color graphics and then build WAP pages that for the site? Brian Grimmer theGrafixGuy http://www.thegrafixguy.com 503-887-4943 925-226-4085 (fax) -Original Message- From: Neerav [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 12:12 AM To: WSG Subject: [WSG] Web safe colours - still relevent ? Is the opinion of list members that only using web safe colours in html/css is still the way to go or not relevant anymore? this article published 6 Sep 2000 http://hotwired.lycos.com/webmonkey/00/37/index2a.html seems to support my suspicions that ive been using web safe colours for much longer than I needed to ... -- Neerav Bhatt http://www.bhatt.id.au Web Development IT consultancy * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] Standards, SPAM, and accessibility - three hot topics all in one
A client today asked a very valid question to me about web standards, SPAM and accessibility - I had to think on it and said I'd get back to him on it. Let's look at this issue by issue, but first let me set the stage so to speak. This is a US Company based in Oregon and has clients across the world. He has a current web presence and while acceptable in IE and Moz, he'd like the site design updated to reflect the new technologies available. First we have standards - pretty easy sell - build the site right and it will display as intended. Does this mean that his staff webmaster HAS to learn XHTML or CSS or is there a way to be standards compliant and use html only with the PROPER use of tags? Next we have SPAM - sore subject for everyone I know - however there are legitimate reasons to send an UNSOLICITED e-mail: Perhaps due to a referral from an existing client for example. Additionally, under current US Law which pre-empts the existing state laws which in some cases were stricter than the New Federal CAN-SPAM law that went into effect on Jan.1, 2004, which merely requires that the e-mail be truthful in its content and be honest in its presentation and header information - must be from the person it claims to be and contact information must be valid - for a legitimate business, this is not an issue - but the question is - How should one state that at the foot of an e-mail message? Lastly, accessibility - while it would be optimal to be able to provide level of quality presentation to ALL, browser limitations prevent that. So the question arises - how far should one really go in a business site? Does one really need to use all the tools needed to attain WAI AAA certification for the average small business? Being a US-based business with Federal contracts, the client has no problem attaining Section 508 conformance but is confused regarding the more stringent and demanding rules regarding the WAI as well as EU/UK/Australian laws. To be honest, I couldn't answer everything via research and so that is the reason for the post. And relating to the previous subject being active, yes this in on-topic but perhaps waver on the edge in regards to the SPAM issue if one does not consider the new laws in effect as a sort of web standard for communication. I apologize in advance for this. Sincerely, Brian Grimmer theGrafixGuy http://www.thegrafixguy.com 503-887-4943 925-226-4085 (fax) * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Standards, SPAM, and accessibility - three hot topics all in one
quote(the web is not the (Internet)quote You are CORRECT in that, the Internet is a part of the web. However, RESPECTFULLY, you sir are completely INCORRECT in the claim that SPAM is NOT on topic. To say so would be like claiming the tail is not part of the cat and therefore should be ignored. To define - let us go to look up the terms. The Internet is the largest internet and is composed of backbone networks, mid-level networks and stub networks. (source: dictionary.com) The World Wide Web, commonly referred to as the web, primarily in the form of html and http is the most commonly known aspect of the Internet. However, the World Wide Web consists of a wide array of protocols and communications standards that range far beyond http and include EVERYTHING from internet to FTP, Gopher, Telnet, news as well as via the http protocol to transfer hypertext documents. (source: dictionary.com ) e-mail - A system for sending and receiving messages electronically over a computer network, as between personal computers. And also: A message or messages sent or received by such a system. (source: dictionary.com ) The group is the WEB Standards Group - correct? Web equals WORLD WIDE WEB. And the definitions are above - The group is NOT called the Internet Standards Group, nor is it called the http standards group, By the Group's own name, it leads itself to a broad category covering accessibility and many many other issues regarding use and design of the Internet as well as FTP, Telnet and so on. As we are dealing in semantics here, (which is the norm as CSS is very semantic is it not?), the proper statement should have been that SPAM is not a preferred topic rather than an OFF-TOPIC matter) Off topic would incorrectly imply that SPAM is not e-mail and e-mail is not part of the Web which is a HUGE network. Just like coding in CSS and HTML, it's all a matter of definition (You can't use an img tag to add properties to text! And by strict definition the subject is on topic. I however will digress and accept that it is not a preferred topic of discussion. Brian Grimmer theGrafixGuy http://www.thegrafixguy.com 503-887-4943 925-226-4085 (fax) This reply to your initial e-mail is sent in accordance with the US CAN-SPAM Law in effect 01/01/2004. Removal requests can be sent to this address and will be honored and respected. -Original Message- From: James Ellis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 4:56 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Standards, SPAM, and accessibility - three hot topics all in one No, the various anti-spam laws, solutions etc aren't a W3c standard and spam problems/solutions aren't solely web based (the web is not the Internet). The discussion on spam and the relevant governing laws of a country (which don't apply outside of that country) should be directed at a dedicated anti-spam list, the lawmakers or an anti-spam support group, rather than here. So, yes, the spam topic raised is closed on this list. HTH James And relating to the previous subject being active, yes this in on-topic but perhaps waver on the edge in regards to the SPAM issue if one does not consider the new laws in effect as a sort of web standard for communication. I apologize in advance for this. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Web safe colours - still relevent ?
I would argue that it depends on your target audience. Suppose you are developing for an audience that mostly uses cellular phones and PDAs. Few of these devices support more than 256 colors, so the web-safe colors are relevant for those devices. But if you are building for those devices, why wouldn't you just build a WAP site??? Brian Grimmer theGrafixGuy http://www.thegrafixguy.com 503-887-4943 925-226-4085 (fax) This reply to your initial e-mail is sent in accordance with the US CAN-SPAM Law in effect 01/01/2004. Removal requests can be sent to this address and will be honored and respected. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Is a degree necessary? THREAD CLOSED - Open it back up! Please.
LOL - I guess and our mods have opened the discussion up in the forum - If the Xoops and their brethren were closer to being standards compliant, I'd seriously ask why not go to a forum type format - easier for all and you can check and reply as necessary yet avoid topics your not interested in. Just a thought - as I find the group admittedly a little dry at times, but what info is presented has taught me a few things and I have been able to use them in design - in that sense, reason for joining is accomplished and mission of the group is accomplished by my learning more accessible methods for my design. Brian Grimmer theGrafixGuy http://www.thegrafixguy.com 503-887-4943 925-226-4085 (fax) -Original Message- From: Taco Fleur [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 5:26 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] Is a degree necessary? THREAD CLOSED - Open it back up! Please. Lost battle (I tried before), for good off topic discussions go to CFAUSSIE.. This list is good, but the moderators like to keep it on topic, I think mainly to please some of the people that work for the government, and these people (not specifically government people) do not know how to sort or skip off topic threads. The moderators have provided a facility to discuss off-topic discussions though, you have to give them credit for it, but I reckon it doesn't work, I sure as hell can't be bothered to go somewhere else to continue discussions. I explained before that a lot of people remove themselves from the list due to the strictness of the list, which is a shame because those people need web standards the most. I think a lot of the people on the list also feel they have to answer every questions asked, which of course puts a lot off stress on these people (and therefore like to keep the list as clean as possible), but they have to understand they are not the only ones that are here to answer questions and should not feel pressured into having to answer every question asked. I personally think just about every off-topic thread will eventually become on-topic in the progress of discussion, and allowing these off-topic threads attracts more interest in this list by many people and thus learning more about web standards eventually, which is what this list is all about, trying to get new people to work with and understand web standards. Of course I opened my big mouth again by saying all this, whip me (please ;-), it's just the way I am. Taco Fleur Tell me and I will forget Show me and I will remember Teach me and I will learn -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ryan Christie Sent: Saturday, 15 May 2004 8:20 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Is a degree necessary? THREAD CLOSED - Open it back up! Please. Active discussions get their head lopped off when they don't have anything to do with standards. This particular thread covered the value of a university degree in the web design business... had it have been the lack of decent web design instruction in major universities, it would have carried on longer. sad, sad story it is. --Ryan Christie theGrafixGuy wrote: Why do the active threads get killed? Some one asks a decent question and gets some very valid input only to get killed off??? Just because something may not be of interest to the particular moderator on duty, I'd like to see a little consideration out there as well - if it is producing some interesting conversation and something worth reading and apparently of enough interest to readers to reply, why not let it continue? Heck, if I were the moderator, I'd be more inclined to jump on the Out of Office setters who don't know their e-mail from the end of their nose. My two cents worth on the matter - and no I am not trying to be disrespectful, just hoping to see some more interesting topics and e-mails than 23 in a 20 hour period! Brian Grimmer theGrafixGuy -Original Message- From: Peter Firminger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 5:56 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] Is a degree necessary? THREAD CLOSED Russ already stopped this thread. Please do not continue with it on list. P * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http
[WSG] Looks good in IE but a little off in Moz? Could I ask for some peeks and ideas?
Hey - building a site using XHTML 1.1 and CSS and while I have the look right in IE, Moz is screwing a few things up. While acceptable in a visual sense, I can see the difference and want to minimize this and do it right Also, what in XHTML 1.1 can I use to replace the lang=en-US attribute? I keep seeing references to some XML:lang variation but am unable to find anything further on how to implement this. Thanks as always! Brian Grimmer theGrafixGuy * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] DOHeth! URL Helps doesn't it!
Sorry bout that J http://www.mosincorporated.com/site2/ Hey - building a site using XHTML 1.1 and CSS and while I have the look right in IE, Moz is screwing a few things up. While acceptable in a visual sense, I can see the difference and want to minimize this and do it right Also, what in XHTML 1.1 can I use to replace the lang=en-US attribute? I keep seeing references to some XML:lang variation but am unable to find anything further on how to implement this. Thanks as always! Brian Grimmer theGrafixGuy
RE: [WSG] Where am I missing the left turn at Alberqurque?
No DTD? No DTD, page no validate!?! Brian Grimmer theGrafixGuy http://www.thegrafixguy.com 503-887-4943 925-226-4085 (fax) -Original Message- From: Nick Cowie [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 7:47 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] Where am I missing the left turn at Alberqurque? Fixed now - Found out I needed to add some padding Part of the prob was that things weren't lining up and were dropping down. Firstly no DTD, this sends IE6, Gecko engined browsers and others into quirks mode. While IE6 in quirks mode is not difficult to handle (behaves just like IE 5) Gecko engine browsers are too unpredictable IMHO. div d1 does not really need a height (or width), it will flow around the divs it contains and lose the overflowing on bottom border I am getting in Firefox, (caused of the box model differences in IE and everybody else). Nick * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] Where am I missing the left turn at Alberqurque?
I am working on a new look for a site and while it displays as desired in IE 6.0. It goes the hades in a hand basket in Moz. What am I missing here? http://www.mosincorporated.com/site2/index.php Thanks in advance for the help! Brian Grimmer theGrafixGuy * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Where am I missing the left turn at Alberqurque?
Fixed now - Found out I needed to add some padding Part of the prob was that things weren't lining up and were dropping down. Brian Grimmer theGrafixGuy http://www.thegrafixguy.com 503-887-4943 925-226-4085 (fax) -Original Message- From: Jackie Reid [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 3:12 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Where am I missing the left turn at Alberqurque? displays as desired in IE 6.0. It goes the hades in a hand basket in Moz. Looks identical in both IE and Firefox to me...is this like a spot the difference thing? Jackie * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] csscreator.com multimenu
A CSS question - I have some centered text formatted via a class in div id= and I need it at the bottom of the div but still HORIZONTALLY centered - how? Thanks for the help in advance Brian * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] csscreator.com multimenu
Yes, I tried that initially and no go - hence the stupid question that is turning out to not be so stupid after all :-) Right now I got it faked using a few br / but I don't wanna do that as it just feel to go against the clean code I am trying to create here. Brian Grimmer theGrafixGuy http://www.thegrafixguy.com 503-887-4943 925-226-4085 (fax) -Original Message- From: Michael Donnermeyer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 1:11 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] csscreator.com multimenu Maybe it's the lack of sleep, but the last I recall that is pretty much useless on divs. Great for tables, but just doesn't like to play well on those divs. MD On May 10, 2004, at 02:21, Chris Blown wrote: vertical-align : bottom; On Mon, 2004-05-10 at 15:54, theGrafixGuy wrote: A CSS question - I have some centered text formatted via a class in div id= and I need it at the bottom of the div but still HORIZONTALLY centered - how? Thanks for the help in advance Brian * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Re: WYSIWYG editor
Dreamweaver MX 2k4 is definitely at the top o' the heap - one tool to build ANYTHING - java, css, html, xhtml, php, asp, cfm, etc etc etc. Can't go wrong there and for those that need it the wysiwyg feature can be turned on easily. I will say GoLive CS was a surprise though in its improvement, but it still isn't at the level of DW. Brian Grimmer theGrafixGuy http://www.thegrafixguy.com 503-887-4943 925-226-4085 (fax) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:04 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Re: WYSIWYG editor I respectfully disagree. Dreamweaver MX 2004 enables a designer to create well formed and valid XHTML. In addition, it has a built-in XHTML validator to check for poor syntax. Also, it's upgraded CSS panel produces valid style sheets, and often creates style sheets automatically in conjunction with XHTML. Kind regards, Mario S. Cisneros Dreamweaver is like kills ants with a machine gun. This app is excelent to edit nested tables, but thing like tableless it not so god -- We had using him practiclly like Homesite to had some markup control. WYSIWYG editor to XHTML/CSS is unnecessary, I suppose. At last, if among browser had yours particularities to render XHTML/CSS, a visual editor had yours particularities too. XHTML Strict/1.1 had a coerent structure, is simple to edit in your favorite ASCII editor. And CSS by TopStyle is very productive. At 20:56 6/5/2004 +1000, simon dodson wrote: dreamweaver mx ? www.macromedia.com From: David Gironella [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anybody know a WYSIWYG editor but that generate XHTML with CSS? * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] Trying to add a back to top link
Hello, I am trying to add a back to top of page link to PHP dynamically generated pages. The header and footers for these page never change so the anchor is in the header and the link in the footer. Header Anchor: a name=top/a HARD CODE link used in the body of the static pages (which I want to pull out to place in the footer!) a href=index.php?main_page=index#top title=Back to Topimg src=images/button_top.gif alt=Back to top width=86 height=20 border=0 class=rollover //a Now my PHP skills are weak but growing stronger, which is why I am asking for the help here. As the pages are long in many cases (requiring two or more page-downs), I desperately want to improve accessibility by including the back to top link on all pages. So what I want to make happen is to is have the a href= tag index.php?main_page=index (or whatever page this happens to be on) filled in by the php and then add the #top at the end so that is it all autonomous and I can put this on ANY and all pages) While I have it working in some pages as a hard coded link, I can't figure out what to place where in regards to the PHP. I am trying basename($PHP_SELF) but am lost now as I am over my head here. Thanks * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Trying to add a back to top link
Yes and that goes back to the root index page - as mentioned these pages are dynamic! Brian -Original Message- From: Ben Bishop [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 2:50 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Trying to add a back to top link Have you considered using a href=#top.../a ? --Ben http://www.daemon.com.au/ theGrafixGuy wrote: I am trying to add a back to top of page link to PHP dynamically generated pages. The header and footers for these page never change so the anchor is in the header and the link in the footer. a href=index.php?main_page=index#top title=Back to Topimg src=images/button_top.gif alt=Back to top width=86 height=20 border=0 class=rollover //a * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Trying to add a back to top link
I think I have the right track here if I can figure out how to write it??? I know that one can't stick php in a tag like that:-/ a href=? $_SERVER['PHP_SELF'] ?#top -Original Message- From: Anders Ebdrup [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 4:23 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Trying to add a back to top link Hi Brian I think this subject is OT, but I think Ben is right; I have a dynamic php-side, and I am using Ben's solution. Regards Anders - Original Message - From: theGrafixGuy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 1:03 PM Subject: RE: [WSG] Trying to add a back to top link Yes and that goes back to the root index page - as mentioned these pages are dynamic! Brian -Original Message- From: Ben Bishop [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 2:50 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Trying to add a back to top link Have you considered using a href=#top.../a ? --Ben http://www.daemon.com.au/ theGrafixGuy wrote: I am trying to add a back to top of page link to PHP dynamically generated pages. The header and footers for these page never change so the anchor is in the header and the link in the footer. a href=index.php?main_page=index#top title=Back to Topimg src=images/button_top.gif alt=Back to top width=86 height=20 border=0 class=rollover //a * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Trying to add a back to top link
Yes there is a base statement built in to the system. And sorry if it is OT, as I am trying very hard to add accessibility in steps as I can, but I am really stuck here and grasping at straws Essentially, I am trying to figure out how to wrap the URL the PHP or vice versa - as this ain't working casue it ain't written right ;-/ a href=? $_SERVER['PHP_SELF'] ?#top Brian -Original Message- From: Lea de Groot [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 4:46 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] Trying to add a back to top link On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 04:03:41 -0700, theGrafixGuy wrote: Yes and that goes back to the root index page - as mentioned these pages are dynamic! (This is really OT, but it should be quick and easy -) Have you put a base statement in your HTML? That'll point the #... to the wrong page. If you really want to specify the current page, have you tried $_SERVER['REQUEST_URI'] ? Lea -- Lea de Groot Elysian Systems - http://elysiansystems.com/ Brisbane, Australia * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] Alt text for background images
Hello, I got the rollover image effect working - thanks for the help there guys! - it still needs refinement in tying in with and or replacing parts of the hardcoded calls in the overall code but I know I am on the right track at least! And even better (heh heh) is I have reduced the nuber of http requests and not resorted to Java ;-) However, I have another question relating in part to this as well as other multiple uses of background: url() on the site. In the case of images turned off in the users browser, how can one get a textual replacement for the missing image? As it is an embedded CSS background image, there is no ALT tag to fall back on :-/ I am using the title tag in the a tag, but that only provides a reference if the users hovers over the image. Hmm. Brian * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] A CSS Question
I am trying to do an image rollover - easy enough yes - but heres the problem We are talking about images that are hard coded into a template system. What I am thinking is doing a class where the rollover would simply change the directory that the image is located in rather than the image name per say. For example: the original hard coded image is img src=images/foo.gif I am thinking changing that to: img src=images/foo.gif class=ro1 The problem is I am kinda stuck from there as far as what to do with the CSS to get the image to change. Am I going down the wrong path here or will this idea work with some implementation?? * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] A CSS Question
Yeah, that was what I was afraid of. I am looking at in the wrong way - Okay, is there a method of perhaps adding an effect to the image that could be turned on or off - like for example a border effect where top and left are one color and bottom and right another color and on a mouse over they reverse? Follow me on this? Essentially, we are trying to add some sort of visual cue to a static image that is embedded in the tables based template system :-/ Brian -Original Message- From: Andrew Krespanis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 2:04 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] A CSS Question gt;I am thinking changing that to: lt;img src=quot;images/foo.gifquot; class=quot;ro1quot;gt; I find it hard to see how you plan to overide the src attribute using CSS... Just about any other element would probably be workable, but I can't see ow this could be done using img and CSS only. Andrew. _ SEEK: Now with over 50,000 dream jobs! Click here: http://ninemsn.seek.com.au?hotmail * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] A CSS Question
Here is what we are dealing with
?php echo my_back_link() . my_image_button('button_back.gif',
IMAGE_BUTTON_BACK) . '';?
The calls are as follows:
function my_image_button($image, $alt = '', $parameters = '') {
global $template, $current_page_base;
return my_image($template-get_template_dir($image ,DIR_WS_TEMPLATE,
$current_page_base,'buttons/'.$_SESSION['language'] . '/') . $image, $alt,
'', '', $parameters);
}
AND
define('IMAGE_BUTTON_BACK', 'Back');
With the ALT Tag and link already defined, I am thinking that if a few more
$foo were used to represent needed code for a mouse-over event, a mouse-over
could be made to work here.
Brian
-Original Message-
From: Andrew Krespanis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 4:03 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] A CSS Question
If what Ben said is correct, and the img's are nested in a's, too easy
mate!
Even if that isn't the case, and the img's are on their own;
Moz/Op/Saf(?)/Konq(?) will allow :hover to be used. Then there's just the
other 90something% of users out there
Which is where this comes in: http://www.xs4all.nl/~peterned/csshover.html.
Andrew Krespanis.
_
Personalise your phone with chart ringtones and polyphonics. Go to
http://ringtones.com.au/ninemsn/control?page=/ninemsn/main.jsp
*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
*
*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
*
RE: [WSG] A CSS Question
James, Took a look at that and I think that is a step in the right direction!!! Now I jes gotta figure out how to do it NOT using lists as these images are not in lists nor do their location lend themselves to being used as such! H. I'll get this yet with the wonderful advice and help ya'll providing :-) Brian -Original Message- From: James Gollan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 4:50 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] A CSS Question Having read my post I should point out that I mean a single image for each button/rollover - not one huge image for everything on your page! That would just be silly. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of James Gollan Sent: Thursday, 22 April 2004 9:40 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] A CSS Question If you are trying to avoid the situation of a separate CSS background property for each image you could create a single image with all of your rollover states. You would then use the background position property to shift this larger image into the correct position. The advantage of this method is that you would only need one image in your CMS and one rule in your CSS applying to the hover state for your anchor element. The full details on this technique are at http://www.alistapart.com/articles/sprites/ Cheers, James -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of theGrafixGuy Sent: Wednesday, 21 April 2004 7:53 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] A CSS Question Yeah, that was what I was afraid of. I am looking at in the wrong way - Okay, is there a method of perhaps adding an effect to the image that could be turned on or off - like for example a border effect where top and left are one color and bottom and right another color and on a mouse over they reverse? Follow me on this? Essentially, we are trying to add some sort of visual cue to a static image that is embedded in the tables based template system :-/ Brian -Original Message- From: Andrew Krespanis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 2:04 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] A CSS Question gt;I am thinking changing that to: lt;img src=quot;images/foo.gifquot; class=quot;ro1quot;gt; I find it hard to see how you plan to overide the src attribute using CSS... Just about any other element would probably be workable, but I can't see ow this could be done using img and CSS only. Andrew. _ SEEK: Now with over 50,000 dream jobs! Click here: http://ninemsn.seek.com.au?hotmail * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] compliant version of the following????
Cancel that - figured it out - CAPS on the meta :-) time to go to bed :-/ -Original Message- From: theGrafixGuy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 5:08 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] compliant version of the following I am working on my site and am having trouble with the following metatag (Our SAfeSurf rating): META http-equiv=PICS-Label content='(PICS-1.1 http://www.classify.org/safesurf/; L gen true for http://www.thegrafixguy.com; r (SS~~000 1))' / The XHTML Transitional validator of W3C is telling me No such attribute so what do I do - is their an alternative compliant way of writing this tag??? Thanks for the feedback Brian * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] Attribute wrap not allowed in text areas
What is the recommended replacement when using a textarea? Thanks Brian * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] CSS ???
CSS
I am having a bit of an issue with Mozilla and IE:
.main_page
{
width:100% !important;
background-color:#d6aef1;
border-right:1px solid #609;
border-left:1px solid #609;
border-bottom:1px solid #609;
padding:4px;
}
Does what I need it too in IE: However to do what I want it to do in
Mozilla, I need the following
.main_page
{
width:100% !important;
background-color:#d6aef1;
border: 1px solid #609;
padding:4px;
}
My question is how do I get IE to see what I want it to and Mozilla to
ignore the IE???
*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
*
RE: [WSG] Looking for a little peer review
Looks fine on Server 2k3 and IE6 Brian -Original Message- From: Nelson Ford [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 16, 2004 10:24 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] Looking for a little peer review Hi all, this will be my first time posting to this group. Someone just told me that my ever-in-progress personal site is looking strange on their screen using IE6/Win. I have tested it using IE5.0/Win and IE6/Win on VirtualPC, as well as with various Mac browsers, and have not come across any major layout issues (except for the occasional pixel imperfection). Apparently for this person on IE6/Win the text in the white main column is overlapping the right sidebar. I'm wondering if it may be an issue relating to a minor update of IE6/Win? Anyway, I'd appreciate a quick check with as many browsers as possible just to ensure I haven't missed anything. The central column has a right-margin equal to the width of the right sidebar, and the right sidebar is absolutely positioned. http://www.nelsonford.net/ Thank you! Nelson * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Trimming the fat from CSS
I happen to be one of those people and I can say that the practice is
under utilized by the programming industry as a whole. And I am neither anal
nor ANAL, it is simply the method of coding I like to use once I have a page
developed to a point I no I will only be touching it up here and there.
As I stated previously, I look at it as building a rocket to go to the moon
- you want light but solid and reliable. I HATE bloat and that is all the
stuff that makes code pretty and easily readable by inexperienced
programmers does.
If some one wants to review the code they can take the few seconds to do a
find } and replace with [return]}[return]
find { and replace with [space]{[space][return]
find ; and replace with ;[return] [space] [space] [space] [space]
find : and replace with :[space]
find , and replace with ,[space]
And you have the css stylesheet decrunched to the point it is fat pretty
again.
And with html, PHP and JAVA, I do the same thing wherever possible.
I always use this as a challenge to people - build a little 4-page site to
play with under the following rules:
Less than three http requests per page
Uses advanced technologies to make the site visually interesting and is not
just plain text.
1 css file - under one packet in size (less than 1160 bytes)
Page loads in under 5 seconds on 56k
Once you do that than optimize it to be as tiny as possible - how small can
you get it?
-Original Message-
From: Jason Turnbull [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 11:35 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [WSG] Trimming the fat from CSS
Nick Lo wrote:
Does everyone else on the list do this?
For the sake of 11k that is cached on the first page load it seems a
little drastic
I would agree its not going to save much, having readable code is much
more important, I wonder if people who do this also remove all
spaces/tabs within the html code
Jason
*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
*
*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
*
RE: [WSG] Constructive Criticism please
Show me an instance where the last semi-colon missing on the last style attribute broke something in ANY modern browser. Good coding practice? Phooey - its a wasteful practice. I suppose CSS shorthand is not good coding practice either. Brian -Original Message- From: Leo J. O'Campo [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2004 12:04 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Constructive Criticism please Sure Hugh Any good programmer would never leave it off because it is good coding practice. Leaving off the semicolon just because they can, will eventually come and kick them in the butt. And if it doesn't MSIE surely would. Remember the quotes in the old days. Leo On Thursday, April 15, 2004, at 02:13 AM, Hugh Todd wrote: theGrafixGuy said, You do not need the ; after the last attribute in each style I know this is technically true (browsers will accept it) but I understood that good coding practice is to put the semicolon even after the last attribute. Anyone else know anything about this? -Hugh Todd * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Constructive Criticism please
LOL - what good is paper in space - get rid of it! Use a PDA with LiIon batteries as they are a few ounces lighter than NiCAD or alkaline ;-) and replace the solid plastic pen/pointer with a ultralight hollow carbon fiber replacement weighing much less and costing 1000x as much - also replace the heavy plastic shell of the PDA with a carbon fiber shell weighing 25% or less of the original and again costing 100x as much. -Original Message- From: Leo J. O'Campo [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2004 12:21 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Constructive Criticism please theGrafixGuy Good coding practice is for classroom, real world you want lean with as little waste as possible. I look at it like a space mission to the moon and every byte is weight - the less weight I have for the structure of the rocket (framework for the site)and still have a solid site, the more room I have for cargo and mission materials (content). Is this why NASA carries all those on-board manuals with them to the moon? Geezz... God help the astronaut that hires you as his efficiency expect. Leo * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Trimming the fat from CSS
I have been accused of that and worse ;-) You should hear what the wife says :-) Brian -Original Message- From: Leo J. O'Campo [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2004 12:31 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Trimming the fat from CSS On Thursday, April 15, 2004, at 03:20 AM, theGrafixGuy wrote: I HATE bloat You know Brian, for a person who hates bloat, you sure are full of it. ;-) lol Leo * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Constructive Criticism please
Sort of, but even leaner bacon is :
p{text-align:justify;line-height:130%;font-size:75%;margin:
0 0 10px 0}div#quote{background-color: #e2dfd5; width: 181px;display:
block;margin-top: 5px}
Chops out the spaces, the return and the
last ; in the first line. Also, if you know the three number code
for your colors, you can trim a bit off there as well.
p {text-align:justify;line-height:130%;font-size:75%;margin:
0 0 10px 0;}
div#quote {background-color: #e2dfd5; width: 181px;display:
block;margin-top: 5px}
From: Jackie Reid
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004
10:19 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] Constructive
Criticism please
GraphixGuydo you mean this...?
p {text-align:justify;line-height:130%;font-size:75%;margin:
0 0 10px 0;}
div#quote {background-color: #e2dfd5; width: 181px;display:
block;margin-top: 5px}
- Original Message -
From: theGrafixGuy
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, April
15, 2004 1:57 PM
Subject: RE: [WSG]
Constructive Criticism please
Looks good overall thought you have a at
least one spelling error - ability to life the 1kg load should be
lift I would think.
Anyway as for your CSS, you have a lot of
fat that can be trimmed from that as well (no need to repeat the font families
if ya put them in the body style) You do not need the ; after the
last attribute in each style (You can remove the returns and have your list go
horizontal instead of vertical) Once all done remove all spaces between the
commas and the semi-colons and remove the rest of the returns and have one LONG
line all of these together will trim A LOT off the size of the
stylesheet mine by itself in a editing state with comments is over 18k
but the version I put on line is under 7k. It dont look as pretty when
it is opened and is harder to read by a human, but it is a smaller file and
reads faster by a machine.
From: Jackie Reid
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004
8:23 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [WSG] Constructive
Criticism please
Hi all...
if anyone has the time or the inclination could they please
have a decko at these pages and give me some constructive criticism... like
does it work at your end, any coding blunders etc! before i go at it hammer and
tongs and start filling the content in. (have validated it ok)
http://www.mockorange.com.au/mocksites/test/jugernaut/juganaut.html
http://www.mockorange.com.au/mocksites/test/jugernaut/index.html
css = http://www.mockorange.com.au/mocksites/test/jugernaut/css/juganaut.css
Also when is a css doc too big and should be divvied up into
a couple of pages...
ps: the links aren't functional as yet.
Thanks
Jackie
RE: [WSG] New Colour Schemer - draft - any suggestions?
Mike, that looks a lot better! BTW I am running 1600x1200. Is it possible to add in an option for switching between a light or dark background or specifying a BG color - when you get into the off-whites, I can foresee a bit of a problem on the last column. (Just offering my input from a users POV) -Original Message- From: Michael Kear [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 11:57 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] New Colour Schemer - draft - any suggestions? G'day Brian, I'm assuming you're using a narrower monitor than mine, or lower resolution so your screen real estate is less than mine. I've now laid it out differently so it's not so wide. Also I've added the italics and heading text for you. g And now the tool will accept 3 digit abbreviated colours, although I haven't added checking to make sure the colour numbers are valid yet. Let no one say we don't listen at AFP Webworks!! http://afpwebworks.com/colourschemer/ Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of theGrafixGuy Sent: Wednesday, 31 March 2004 5:15 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] New Colour Schemer - draft - any suggestions? Looks good! Though for sake of presentation style, I'd have it layout the results in a more formatted manner. The results page looks ad-hoc if you know what I mean. Also, if easily done, I'd like to see header examples as well as bold and italic - but that is just me. Brian * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] CSS issue in Opera (Win)
Title: CSS issue in Opera (Win)
Hi all,
I am building Zen Cart, and thanks for the suggestion!!!
I have noticed a problem though in the footer every cart I have seen using a footer with a border, the right border disappears on the footer and footer top.
Here are 7 example sites and you will see what I mean the CSS will be the same for all with some changes for style, but here is the base code.
/* footer
--*/
TABLE.footer {
background: #ff;
text-align: center;
font-size: 10px;
border-right: 1px solid #9a9a9a;
border-left: 1px solid #9a9a9a;
border-bottom: 1px solid #9a9a9a;
}
TR.footertop {
background: #abbbd3;
background-image: url(../images/tile_back.jpg);
font-size: 11px;
}
TD.footertop, TD.footerbottom {
padding: 5px;
}
Any ideas what is wrong???
RE: [WSG] New Colour Schemer - draft - any suggestions?
Looks good! Though for sake of presentation style, I'd have it layout the results in a more formatted manner. The results page looks ad-hoc if you know what I mean. Also, if easily done, I'd like to see header examples as well as bold and italic - but that is just me. Brian -Original Message- From: Lindsay Evans [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 10:36 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] New Colour Schemer - draft - any suggestions? Michael Kear wrote: For my own benefit, I have been developing a colour schemer tool, and I've put it on my web site for others to use, comment about, help me improve. Snippety-snip http://afpwebworks.com/colourschemer/ is the address. (note the Australian COLOUR not the American COLOR) Looks pretty good to me, Mike. One thing I'd suggest: make the form method 'get' instead of 'post', that way people can bookmark, email, etc. the colour scheme easily. Oh, found a bug, too: if I enter a 3 digit hex code (eg. #333), then I get a CF error, might be handy for us lazy CSS folk to put shorthand for colours in :) -- Lindsay Evans. Developer, Red Square Productions. [p] 8596.4000 [f] 8596.4001 [w] www.redsquare.com.au * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Somewhat frustrated
I am far from an expert yet, but your display issues are very similar to what I got the first time around using CSS I discovered IDs rather than classes fro layers provides more precision. Also, you might want to try dropping the p/p and running block level text. Brian From: John Penlington [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 9:08 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] Somewhat frustrated Forgive my frustration, but after a couple of months with this Discussion List I've formed the opinion no browser will display web standards - every one of them requires hacks of some kind. I test on Win XP Pro with IE6 and Firefox - as well as on a new eMac with Safari and IE5(Mac). All my earlier web sites with tables rather than CSS 2 display quite well on all four browsers. When I try to code for Web Standards, I get a medley of results. Hence my opinion that no browser complies completely. Now the crunch: I'm building a site for a photographer who wants pixel-precision layout on all browsers. At least weachieved it on IE6 with no tables, just CSS styling. I'm aware that I shouldn't have done that, but please read on. After two weeks of frustration trying to get it to work precisely on the other browsers, I've finally resorted to tables and yes, wicked me, even a spacer gif. The home page (with inactive links)is at: www.bluemountainsgardener.info/hobbs/index.asp and the CSS is at: www.bluemountainsgardener.info/hobbs/dhpg_style_tables.css The display my client wants is exactly what you'll see with IE6. What he doesn't want is what you'll seeon Safari, Firefox and IE5(Mac). The page validates for both XHTML 1.0 Transitional and CSS. Even the Unordered List menu breaks on IE5(Mac). Can anyone tell me whymy valid (XHTML and CSS) pagedisplays so differently in those four browsers - two of which are supposed to follow Web Standards closely (Firefox and Safari)? Where is my code sub-standard if it validates for both XHTML and CSS? What do I need to do to get it to display roughly the same on all four browsers? Please don't tell me to use CSS 2 - I tried that and it simply didn't work !! The variations were unacceptable despiteall the hacks I could find. I know I'll be shot down in flames for raising this, but I really want to code for Web Standards and the frustration for me and my client isvery real!! I'm sure I'm not alone, but I'm keen to persevere. Thanks to you all for such a helpful List. John Penlington web developer
RE: [WSG] What's wrong with this page??
Try replacing the graphic - I had a similar thing happen today - image in a header viewed fine in all other browsers and evenen Mozilla on other computers. But would not display for the life of me on the one machine. I even replaced and upgraded Mozilla to 1.6 from 1.5 to no avail - rebooting didn't work either - finally I just re-uploaded the image and poof there it was - weirdest thing but it worked! Brian -Original Message- From: Neerav [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 1:23 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] What's wrong with this page?? Loads and views fine for me with ie5 and ie6 sp1 on win2k -- Neerav Bhatt http://www.bhatt.id.au Michael Kear wrote: I've looked and I've looked, and I can't see what's the matter here.. When this page loads in IE, the body content of the page doesn't appear. However when you put another window over the top and come back to it, there the content is. It's loading ok, as a vew source will testify, but it doesn't display. Can anyone see what's wrong? The page validates as xhtml1.0 strict and the CSS validates too. I've tinkered around with the divs and nothing seems to fix the problem. I suspect its another one of those stupid little things that stares me in the face but I just can't see it. Anyone? The page is at http://mezzanines.com.au/aboutus.htm Cheers Mike Kear AFP Webworks Windsor, NSW, Australia http://afpwebworks.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Navigation menu working in all but IE - FIXED
Thanks to Darian, the extra spaces was the issue - doh! Been a long day, been coding three different sites for 18 hours straight today! Thanks for the feedback Leo, nice to know the Mac side is working right! Brian * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Hiding styles message to certain browsers
Used macs running IE 5 are dirt cheap, I just bought two 6500s for $35, each with 160MB RAM and a 2GB HDD - at that price, ya just can't go wrong as far as having one to check stuff on. Brian -Original Message- From: Jaime Wong [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 2:28 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Hiding styles message to certain browsers I know... but I can't get around the Mac IE bugs and it makes things even harder as I do not have a Mac to check against those bugs. Rather Mac IE and NS users see a plain text page than a broken design page. So got to hide the styles till I am able to buy me a Mac but by that time maybe Mac IE will no longer be used :D With Regards Jaime Wong ~~ SODesires Design Team http://www.sodesires.com ~~ ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 03/24/04 07:22:18 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Hiding styles message to certain browsers I am thinking of hiding my stylesheets from Mac IE and Netscape Jamie Agrr... You'd be leaving most of us creative people out in the cold! Leo * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] Drop Caps
Anyone have ideas on how to do a drop cap in CSS? * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] RE: Display issues
Hello, I am working on a build for a client and am having a devil of a time figuring out why the follwing is happening. In the footer section, I have various links set up and two W3C buttons made from CSS (pretty nice completely customizable buttons I might add that were shared with me from another chat forum). Anyway, the issue I am having is they display PERFECTLY in IE (go figure), acceptanle, but off just a tidge in Mozilla and Firefox, and they complete screw the pooch in Opera and the tops line up with the mid-point of the text line For an example, see http://www.purplecart.com (it is one of my old URLs that I am using to build the clients site so the content will NOT match the name ;-) * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] Browser Stats - What a shock!
I actually decided to look in detail at my logs over the past month after people brought up the Browser compatibility issues: This is what I have for my site www.thegrafixguy.com and I get an average of 1 unique visitors a month. MSIE all versions 74.9% Netscape 1.8% (Man they Seriously lost the Browser War) Mozilla 11.7% Safari 4.4% Opera 0.4% FireBird 0.2% Konqueror 0.1% Multizilla (1 visit) Lynx (1 Visit) Two things here surprised me here - the death of Netscape in regards to popularity - last year, atleast Netscape was in the double digits, and also a few hits with MSIE 7.01 which I have not been able to find myself Though I must say for the heck of it, I downloaded Lynx and Installed it and took a look at my own site - It was suprising to see what was not there despite the lack of images and on the same hand surprising as to what is there. I can see that I have some work to do in that regard! Anyway, cheers, hope someone find the figures above interesting as I did. Brian * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] URLs - CSS Validator
www.google.com is just as valid in e-mail as http://www.google.com or even http://google.com. In fact I'd be surprised to find a web browser or e-mail program that does not support it. I guess it is like the word ain't. Remember ain't ain't a word cause it ain't in the dictionary. Well sorry to say, but it is and it is recognized and accepted slang by all but the purists. Darian, BTW, (and I am updating all of my pages to reflect this as well) your W3C CSS button would be better served if it pointed to the following URL - http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/check/referer - as it shows the validation results rather than having to figure out where to go after you get to the default page as your current link http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/ does. Granted us pros know what to do, but that computer-ignorant user out there that may actually be impressed and won over as a client with such validation may get lost on the page. Remember keep it simple because there is always a better idiot out there to break the idiot proof system! Brian * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Browser Stats - What a shock!
I just downloaded the latest NS 7.01 and it is nothing more than Mozilla with NS's skin on it, even my installed Mozilla plug-ins are present in NS. But that doesn't explain the complete loss of market share! Brian -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 3:41 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Browser Stats - What a shock! Wow what the hell happened to NS??!! Going by those figures I should be focassing my attention to Mozilla compatability. Thanks for the stats. Darian I actually decided to look in detail at my logs over the past month after people brought up the Browser compatibility issues: This is what I have for my site www.thegrafixguy.com and I get an average of 1 unique visitors a month. MSIE all versions 74.9% Netscape 1.8% (Man they Seriously lost the Browser War) Mozilla 11.7% Safari 4.4% Opera 0.4% FireBird 0.2% Konqueror 0.1% Multizilla (1 visit) Lynx (1 Visit) Two things here surprised me here - the death of Netscape in regards to popularity - last year, atleast Netscape was in the double digits, and also a few hits with MSIE 7.01 which I have not been able to find myself Though I must say for the heck of it, I downloaded Lynx and Installed it and took a look at my own site - It was suprising to see what was not there despite the lack of images and on the same hand surprising as to what is there. I can see that I have some work to do in that regard! Anyway, cheers, hope someone find the figures above interesting as I did. Brian * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Browser Stats - What a shock!
James, Breaking the Netscape down to versions we have the following: NS 7.1 1.1% NS 7.02 0.2% NS 7.01 0.01% NS 7.0 0.1% NS 6.23 0.05% NS 5 0.0003% NS 4.8 0.0002% NS 4.78 0.08% NS 4.77 0.01% NS 4.76 0.018% NS 4.74 0.0007% NS 4.7 0.05% NS 4.51 0% NS 4.5 0.0001 NS 4.04 0% NS 4.0 0% NS ? 0% Just for giggles Anything below MSIE 5 is a combined total of 0.0025% Brian -Original Message- From: James Ellis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 4:33 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Browser Stats - What a shock! Hi Do the Netscape stats include 6 7? Or are they included in Moz stats? If you target Mozilla you will also be targeting Netscape 6 and 7 (they are the same browsers). There's a thread about this somewhere from last week - about what NS 6 and 7 are. http://www.mozilla.org/start/1.5/faq/general.html#ns7 Cheers James [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wow what the hell happened to NS??!! Going by those figures I should be focassing my attention to Mozilla compatability. Thanks for the stats. Darian I actually decided to look in detail at my logs over the past month after people brought up the Browser compatibility issues: This is what I have for my site www.thegrafixguy.com and I get an average of 1 unique visitors a month. MSIE all versions 74.9% Netscape 1.8% (Man they Seriously lost the Browser War) Mozilla 11.7% Safari 4.4% Opera 0.4% FireBird 0.2% Konqueror 0.1% Multizilla (1 visit) Lynx (1 Visit) Two things here surprised me here - the death of Netscape in regards to popularity - last year, atleast Netscape was in the double digits, and also a few hits with MSIE 7.01 which I have not been able to find myself Though I must say for the heck of it, I downloaded Lynx and Installed it and took a look at my own site - It was suprising to see what was not there despite the lack of images and on the same hand surprising as to what is there. I can see that I have some work to do in that regard! Anyway, cheers, hope someone find the figures above interesting as I did. Brian * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] Font Styles:
http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/auth/fonts-face-index.html
This link brings up an interesting question - what fonts are supported by
what platforms and OS's?
Now I should clarify this with the duh part, any font is supported so long
as the viewer has it installed on their system. I guess a better way fo
asking the question is for example Comic Sans MS pretty universal? Are these
fonts as safe to use as the core sans-serif and serif?
On the same note, I can see one can shave some bytes of of their CSS
stylesheet if they simply use sans-serif or serif rather than a long drawn
out list {font-family: Arial, Helvetica, Sans-serif} (something I was
wondering about actually).
Brian
*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
*
RE: [WSG] Browser Stats - What a shock!
Good post - if you scroll down a little, you can see the OS and platofrms and while XP is leading the way - notice Macintosh and Linux have both maintained a small steady increase over the past year! Mind you, I am an XP user - converted from OS 9 due to costs and sheer availability of software, but I still run a couple of Macs in house. As for Linux. Other than a web server, there is little use for it in a graphic design shop - more use for an Amiga or SGI! Simply due to a lack of any professional level software like Photoshop or Illustrator for Linux - Yes, I know there is some GNU version of something like Photoshop, but it is not ADOBE PHOTOSHOP and that is a standard just like CSS or HTML is in the industry - it isn't me ya have to convince, it is Adobe and the like - get them to support Linux like they do for the Mac and you have some serious MS competition!!! Anyway this is way off topic so I am shutting up! Brian -Original Message- From: Oscar Trelles [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 6:27 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Browser Stats - What a shock! I posted a link to some fresh web statistics from the W3C on my blog earlier today, which turn out to be very similar to what you are getting: http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp There, IE versions account for more than 80% of the whole browser share, followed by Mozilla with 9.6%. Oscar Oscar Trelles http://www.oscartrelles.com/blog/ - Original Message - From: theGrafixGuy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 7:32 PM Subject: RE: [WSG] Browser Stats - What a shock! I just downloaded the latest NS 7.01 and it is nothing more than Mozilla with NS's skin on it, even my installed Mozilla plug-ins are present in NS. But that doesn't explain the complete loss of market share! Brian -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 3:41 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Browser Stats - What a shock! Wow what the hell happened to NS??!! Going by those figures I should be focassing my attention to Mozilla compatability. Thanks for the stats. Darian I actually decided to look in detail at my logs over the past month after people brought up the Browser compatibility issues: This is what I have for my site www.thegrafixguy.com and I get an average of 1 unique visitors a month. MSIE all versions 74.9% Netscape 1.8% (Man they Seriously lost the Browser War) Mozilla 11.7% Safari 4.4% Opera 0.4% FireBird 0.2% Konqueror 0.1% Multizilla (1 visit) Lynx (1 Visit) Two things here surprised me here - the death of Netscape in regards to popularity - last year, atleast Netscape was in the double digits, and also a few hits with MSIE 7.01 which I have not been able to find myself Though I must say for the heck of it, I downloaded Lynx and Installed it and took a look at my own site - It was suprising to see what was not there despite the lack of images and on the same hand surprising as to what is there. I can see that I have some work to do in that regard! Anyway, cheers, hope someone find the figures above interesting as I did. Brian * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] Trimming the fat
Trimming excess fat off of the code does add up over time - both in storage and in transfer/bandwidth - granted, I'll admit whether your CSS stylesheet can be transferred in a single packet or if it is 4kb in size is not going to make much of a difference; but sitewide - getting rid of the extra comments (if you know your code), removing extra spaces and getting rid of redundant code can save a lot of bandwidth and make for an overall faster running site. With a site file getting 2500 hits a day and trimming off even 100bytes in excess size, that is a savings of 250k for the day, add that up over the course of a month and you saved 7.5MB! Now think sitewide and if you could apply the same average across the site (very easy to do) if you have 100 files on the site total the savings in bandwidth add up and so does the decvrease in the amount of space needed. As a broadband user, I'll be the first to admit I forgot what it is like for 56k and less until I visited a client who dialed up my site (I've been spoiled by the Broadband and the fact the site is cached nicely in my system) it took almost a minute for the site to completely download!) Well that ws the big incentive there to get rid of some Java that was clogging the pipe. Now, my site is better, but still not where I want it, CSS will definitely bring it more inline but alas, I need to find a good lightweight, customizable and powerful shopping cart program to replace the VERY VERY tables heavy OSCommerce. Alas the troubles we put ourselves into! Brian -Original Message- From: Leo J. O'Campo [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 8:23 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Font Styles: I can see one can shave some bytes of of their CSS stylesheet Brian Bytes??? This type of savings aren't even noticeable on any system. Even if you defined that rule in every handler, you'll never notice the difference in bytes or page-loading speed. I can't notice the speed difference between a nanosecond and 100 nanoseconds. ;-) Leo * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Trimming the fat
Ooh, that might be just what the doctor ordered!!! Thanks. Brian -Original Message- From: Tim Lucas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 10:26 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Trimming the fat Quoting theGrafixGuy [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Now, my site is better, but still not where I want it, CSS will definitely bring it more inline but alas, I need to find a good lightweight, customizable and powerful shopping cart program to replace the VERY VERY tables heavy OSCommerce. Might want to check out Zen Cart: http://www.zen-cart.com -- tim www.toolmantim.com - Web, Email and Domain hosting - www.fasthit.net * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] Navigation menu working in all but IE
Working on a navigation menu and it works great in everything BUT IE. http://www.purplecart.com/main.php - any help would be appreciated! I know it is likely staring me in the face but I am blind to it. Thanks Brian * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Centering one box in the center of the page with a footer attached
I have gotten the background image part figured out (Kudos to Jeremy for the assist). So now I am down to centering a box fluidly on the page so that its content will display over the centered baackground regardless of screen size and the footer will be relative to the bottom of the content box. Simple things get so hard sometime :-) Brian -Original Message- From: theGrafixGuy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 12:52 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] Centering one box in the center of the page with a footer attached Hello, I am trying to figure out how to do the following and am doing little more than making my brain hurt. I want a box with a background image centered on the page (left right is easy enough) but I also want it to be centered top and bottom as well as this will be the intro page for the site. The idea is to get the single run of the background image to display dead center of the page regardless of the screen res of the visitor (the image is sized so that a 800x600 viewer fits nicely) On top of this background image will be some text and an enter button. The footer will contain a photo credit and copyright and ride just below the background image - centered left-right and relative to the main box with the background. Any ideas? Brian * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Centering one box in the center of the page with a footer attached
Yep, that is what I was looking for - Thank you! -Original Message- From: russ weakley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 1:11 PM To: Web Standards Group Subject: Re: [WSG] Centering one box in the center of the page with a footer attached Hi Brian, Hard to tell from the description - a mockup might help, but here is a page that may be of benefit... Dead Center: http://www.wpdfd.com/editorial/thebox/deadcentre4.html HTH Russ Hello, I am trying to figure out how to do the following and am doing little more than making my brain hurt. I want a box with a background image centered on the page (left right is easy enough) but I also want it to be centered top and bottom as well as this will be the intro page for the site. The idea is to get the single run of the background image to display dead center of the page regardless of the screen res of the visitor (the image is sized so that a 800x600 viewer fits nicely) On top of this background image will be some text and an enter button. The footer will contain a photo credit and copyright and ride just below the background image - centered left-right and relative to the main box with the background. Any ideas? Brian * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] CSS Shorthand for color
From what I can tell, IT IS NOT limited to paired hexes - See http://www.december.com/html/spec/color3hex1.html - this pages lists 512 colors, the next another 1024 colors, the next another 1024, and the last yet another 1024 for a total of 3584 colors That is more than the paired sets I believe but math isn't my specialty. While this chart page is handy, it is not convenient in the sense of being able to cross reference for converesion of say #A4D3F2 So that is I am looking for a calculator type doohickey or widget Brian * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] Color Blindnesss
Somewhere out there, I lost my link to it in an old HDD crash, there is a site that allows you to test your site using the various perceptions people with various types of color blindness suffer from - it was actually quite handy. But there is other sites out there now that atleast let you choose or test the color schemes - though not as useful as the site reader. Brian -Original Message- From: Carl Reynolds [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 9:06 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] CSS Shorthand for color I did a lot of research several years ago in the use of color in user interfaces that will be viewed by color blind people. The results we got showed that a wide range of colors works better for them than a narrow range. Of course it is not a good idea to uses exclusively bright red and bright green for everything on the sight, but a dark green next to a bright red with other colors will work quite well. Even for people with magenta-yellow, or violet-orange color blindness using a broad range of saturation's works better than having everything in restricted color ranges. Simon Jessey wrote: Another thing to consider is the large number of people who suffer some form of color blindness. This may further limit the palette you have available. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Help us redesign the WSG site
I like this idea! It adds a creative flair to the purpose of the group and as an artist/programmer instead of a pure programmer it gives others like me a chance to show the world This is how I would've done it. Brian * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] drop down menus
Title: Message Hello, I have just joined the group and I must say I have enjoyed the posts I have read through so far today (being the first day of membership and all). I hail from across the sea in Portland, Oregon and even y'all are Aussie's (one could say that is far better than beinga Kiwi but we won't go there) I have yet to find a similiar group here in the States. Anyway, thanks again for allowing me to come on board. If I may toss out a very elementary question that escapes me and I have not been able to find an answer to. When a screen resolution is 800 x 600 - what is the Actual width of the browser viewing area (taking the window borders into account). If the page extends beyond the depth of the page and the browser adds a scroll-bar, what is the width of the browser's viewwing area now?? Thanks a bunch and forgive me if this is somewhere out there, I just have not been able to find the answers. Brian From: Matthew Magain [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 4:36 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: RE: [WSG] drop down menus Here is a site with accessible menus http://www.udm4.com/ I was going to recommend this drop down menu that I have used - www.brainjar.com -as it gives a real windows look and feel (if that is what the client is after) except thatone looks better as it works in IE 5.01, which the brainjar one doesn't.
RE: [WSG] Actual page width (was: drop down menus)
Why is it some one always pipes up with that answer?One would almost be led to believe that "flexible" is the answer to everything. Flexible will not be inscribed on the Pearly Gates and it is not the Holy Grail of site design. Flexible sites are nice in certain cases,but as I inferred above, they are NOT an optimal solution nor are they fitting for every design, style or appearance. And they are far from being the answer for everything. No one buildingprofessional web sites would want to limit themselves to nothing but flexable width sites. Brian From: Bernie Howe [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 6:04 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [WSG] Actual page width (was: drop down menus) Build you site flexable and not fixed, let it expand from 640x480 to 1024x768 - Original Message - From: Cameron Adams To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 6:29 PM Subject: RE: [WSG] Actual page width (was: drop down menus) I generally design to 760px width, that gives you afairly big margin of error. The actual Windowsscrollbar is 16px, but it varies across OS/browser,and you also have to think of collapsed side bars,etc.Better to err on the side of narrowness.--Cameron AdamsW: www.themaninblue.com--- theGrafixGuy [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: When a screen resolution is 800 x 600 - what is the Actual width of the browser viewing area (taking the window borders into account). If the page extends beyond the depth of the page and the browser adds a scroll-bar, what is the width of the browser's viewwing area now?? Thanks a bunch and forgive me if this is somewhere out there, I just have not been able to find the answers. Brian __Do you Yahoo!?Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html*The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmfor some hints on posting to the list getting help*
RE: [WSG] drop down menus
Hey I wasn't meaning anything by saying y'all are Aussie's! I was simply acknowledging the Aussie origination of the group and the Kiwi proximity with out resorting to "baa-aa-aad" jokes relating to sheep. Additionally, my typing faster than my eyes could catch the missed letters, led to only part of the message being sent and a blowing of the hoped to be humorous intro. Oh well such is life :-/ we can only make fools of ourselves :-D Mind you,I don't hold anything against the Kiwi's. Like us Oregonians, they (for the most part) tend to be a little more sensitive to issues regardingtheir environment thanmost and is whyKiwis and Oregoniansare often seen asTreehuggers. Anyway, this is completely off topic so let us end this side topic of a baa-aa-aad joke gone awryhere... Responses to the original question are appreciated though! And thanks to those who have posted replies already... The 760 px width seems a little narrow, but I have been burned on 790 and 784so that is why I asked the question. Brian From: Leo J. O'Campo [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 7:59 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [WSG] drop down menus On Sunday, March 21, 2004, at 08:08 PM, theGrafixGuy wrote: and even y'all are Aussie'sThis list might be based in AU but it is international. Like myself (New York) there are over 50 members in the USA represented on this list.Leo
RE: [WSG] slightly OT web page analyser service
I use this tool a lot when I am optimizing my code to see how much I saved (every byte adds time!). Using this tool, you can see just how much fat there is in your code. I have literally shaved off 50% off of some pages. Unfortunately, while it is possible to build a web page that will get congrat ratings all the way down the list (scripts that will fit inside a single packet, and minimal http calls for example), they are less than optimal for realistic everyday use (though I admit, I am currently toying with a currently abandoned URL I own and using it to create a site that looks good is valid XHTML and CSS and gets congrats in ALL the categories covered by this tool. Actually, it is kinda fun to work in the limits imposed by the tool and see just HOW SMALL and minimalist you can go and still have advanced features. Brian -Original Message- From: Neerav [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 8:50 PM To: WSG Subject: [WSG] slightly OT web page analyser service This maybe OT, but should be useful to all web developers on the list, because a site ight well be standards compliant but if it takes 30 seconds to load than its still failing ... http://www.webpageanalyzer.com/ - Web Page Analyzer - 0.82 Test your web site speed with our free web-based analyzer. Enter a URL below to calculate page size, composition, and page download time. The script calculates the size of individual elements and finds the total for each type of web page component. Based on these page characteristics the script then offers advice on how to improve page display time and website speed. The script incorporates best practices from HCI research into its recommendations. -- Neerav Bhatt http://www.bhatt.id.au * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] slightly OT web page analyser service
I think the reason for that is that the structure of the page is built and the images can d/l while the the content is in place and the reader can begin seeing something atleast. This tool (which I discovered last month as part of a plug-in for Mozilla and Firefox) sold me the rest of the way on the advantages of CSS. I know as time allows I am going to rebuild my newly rebuilt tables-based site UGH! But to my clients advantage, I have already begun implimenting CSS into their sites full bore. Brian The only problem I can see is images referenced in the CSS are not taken into account Jason * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
