Re: [zfs-discuss] Mac OS X clients with ZFS server

[Rich Teer]

Hi all,

Thanks to some clues from people on this list, I have finally
resolved this issue!

To summarise, I was having problems with timeouts when applications
on my MacBook Pro tried to create new files on an NFS file system
that was mounted from my server running snv_130 (writes to existing
files were fine).

The solution was to assign a static IP address to the MBP and ensure
that proper forward and reverse DNS entries were present (in all of
my tests to date, the MBP was using DHCP to gets its IP address, and
I haven't bothered populating my DNS with DHCP-related entries).  Once
the MBP was using a static IP address as described above, creating new
files on NFS mounted file systems works as flawlessly as one would
expect!

Thanks again to everyone who chimed in with ideas.  No, if I could only
stop Aqua from doing the brain-dead "click mouse for input focus" and
"auto-raise the window that has input focus" things I'd be really happy..

-- 
Rich Teer, Publisher
Vinylphile Magazine

www.vinylphilemag.com
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Re: [zfs-discuss] Mac OS X clients with ZFS server

[Erik Ableson]

The only tweak needed was making sure that I used the FQDN of the client 
machines (with appropriate reverse lookups in my DNS) for the sharenfs 
properties. 

Envoyé de mon iPhone

Le 16 sept. 2010 à 17:15, Rich Teer  a écrit :

> On Thu, 16 Sep 2010, Erik Ableson wrote:
> 
>> OpenSolaris snv129
> 
> Hmm, SXCE snv_130 here.  Did you have to do any server-side tuning
> (e.g., allowing remote connections), or did it just work out of the
> box?  I know that Sendmail needs some gentle persuasion to accept
> remote connections out of the box; perhaps lockd is the same?
> 
> -- 
> Rich Teer, Publisher
> Vinylphile Magazine
> 
> www.vinylphilemag.com
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Re: [zfs-discuss] Mac OS X clients with ZFS server

[Erik Ableson]

Le 16 sept. 2010 à 16:18, Rich Teer  a écrit :

> On Thu, 16 Sep 2010, erik.ableson wrote:
> 
>> And for reference, I have a number of 10.6 clients using NFS for
>> sharing Fusion virtual machines, iTunes library, iPhoto libraries etc.
>> without any issues.
> 
> Excellent; what OS is your NFS server running?

OpenSolaris snv129

Erik
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Re: [zfs-discuss] Mac OS X clients with ZFS server

[Mike Mackovitch]

On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 08:15:53AM -0700, Rich Teer wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Sep 2010, Erik Ableson wrote:
> 
> > OpenSolaris snv129
> 
> Hmm, SXCE snv_130 here.  Did you have to do any server-side tuning
> (e.g., allowing remote connections), or did it just work out of the
> box?  I know that Sendmail needs some gentle persuasion to accept
> remote connections out of the box; perhaps lockd is the same?

So, you've been having this problem since April.
Did you ever try getting packet traces to see where the problem is?

As I previously stated, if you want, you can forward the traces to me to
look at.  Let me know if you need the directions on how to capture them.

--macko
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Re: [zfs-discuss] Mac OS X clients with ZFS server

[Rich Teer]

On Thu, 16 Sep 2010, Erik Ableson wrote:

> OpenSolaris snv129

Hmm, SXCE snv_130 here.  Did you have to do any server-side tuning
(e.g., allowing remote connections), or did it just work out of the
box?  I know that Sendmail needs some gentle persuasion to accept
remote connections out of the box; perhaps lockd is the same?

-- 
Rich Teer, Publisher
Vinylphile Magazine

www.vinylphilemag.com
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Re: [zfs-discuss] Mac OS X clients with ZFS server

[Rich Teer]

On Thu, 16 Sep 2010, erik.ableson wrote:

> And for reference, I have a number of 10.6 clients using NFS for
> sharing Fusion virtual machines, iTunes library, iPhoto libraries etc.
> without any issues.

Excellent; what OS is your NFS server running?

-- 
Rich Teer, Publisher
Vinylphile Magazine

www.vinylphilemag.com
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Re: [zfs-discuss] Mac OS X clients with ZFS server

[erik.ableson]

On 15 sept. 2010, at 22:04, Mike Mackovitch wrote:

> On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 12:08:20PM -0700, Nabil wrote:
>> any resolution to this issue?  I'm experiencing the same annoying
>> lockd thing with mac osx 10.6 clients.  I am at pool ver 14, fs ver
>> 3.  Would somehow going back to the earlier 8/2 setup make things
>> better?
> 
> As noted in the earlier thread, the "annoying lockd thing" is not a
> ZFS issue, but rather a networking issue.
> 
> FWIW, I never saw a resolution.  But the suggestions for how to debug
> situations like this still stand:

And for reference, I have a number of 10.6 clients using NFS for sharing Fusion 
virtual machines, iTunes library, iPhoto libraries etc. without any issues.

Cheers,

Erik
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Re: [zfs-discuss] Mac OS X clients with ZFS server

[Mike Mackovitch]

On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 12:08:20PM -0700, Nabil wrote:
> any resolution to this issue?  I'm experiencing the same annoying
> lockd thing with mac osx 10.6 clients.  I am at pool ver 14, fs ver
> 3.  Would somehow going back to the earlier 8/2 setup make things
> better?

As noted in the earlier thread, the "annoying lockd thing" is not a
ZFS issue, but rather a networking issue.

FWIW, I never saw a resolution.  But the suggestions for how to debug
situations like this still stand:

> So, it looks like you need to investigate why the client isn't
> getting responses from the server's "lockd".
>
> This is usually caused by a firewall or NAT getting in the way.

> I would also check /var/log/system.log and /var/log/kernel.log on the Mac to
> see if any other useful messages are getting logged.
>
> Then I'd grab packet traces with wireshark/tcpdump/snoop *simultaneously* on
> the client and the server, reproduce the problem, and then determine which
> packets are being sent and which packets are being received.

HTH
--macko
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Re: [zfs-discuss] Mac OS X clients with ZFS server

[Nabil]

any resolution to this issue?  I'm experiencing the same annoying lockd thing 
with mac osx 10.6 clients.  I am at pool ver 14, fs ver 3.  Would somehow going 
back to the earlier 8/2 setup make things better?

-Nabil
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Re: [zfs-discuss] Mac OS X clients with ZFS server

[Chris Ridd]

On 26 Apr 2010, at 06:02, Dave Pooser wrote:

> On 4/25/10 6:07 PM, "Rich Teer"  wrote:
> 
>> Sounds fair enough!  Let's move this to email; meanwhile, what's the
>> packet sniffing incantation I need to use?  On Solaris I'd use snoop,
>> but I don't htink Mac OS comes with that!
> 
> Use Wireshark (formerly Ethereal); works great for me. It does require X11
> on your machine.

Macs come with the command-line tcpdump tool. Wireshark (recommended anyway!) 
can read files saved by tcpdump and snoop.

Cheers,

Chris
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Re: [zfs-discuss] Mac OS X clients with ZFS server

[Dave Pooser]

On 4/25/10 6:11 PM, "Rich Teer"  wrote:

> I tried going to that URL, but got a 404 error...  :-(  What's the correct
> one, please?


-- 
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Manager of Information Services
Alford Media  http://www.alfordmedia.com


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Re: [zfs-discuss] Mac OS X clients with ZFS server

[Dave Pooser]

On 4/25/10 6:07 PM, "Rich Teer"  wrote:

> Sounds fair enough!  Let's move this to email; meanwhile, what's the
> packet sniffing incantation I need to use?  On Solaris I'd use snoop,
> but I don't htink Mac OS comes with that!

Use Wireshark (formerly Ethereal); works great for me. It does require X11
on your machine.
-- 
Dave Pooser, ACSA
Manager of Information Services
Alford Media  http://www.alfordmedia.com


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Re: [zfs-discuss] Mac OS X clients with ZFS server

[Andrew Kener]

The correct URL is:

http://code.google.com/p/maczfs/

-Original Message-
From: zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org
[mailto:zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of Rich Teer
Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 7:11 PM
To: Alex Blewitt
Cc: ZFS discuss
Subject: Re: [zfs-discuss] Mac OS X clients with ZFS server

On Fri, 23 Apr 2010, Alex Blewitt wrote:

> > > For your information, the ZFS project lives (well, limps really) on
> > > at http://code.google.com/p/mac-zfs. You can get ZFS for Snow Leopard
> > > from there and we're working on moving forwards from the ancient pool
> > > support to something more recent. I've relatively recently merged in
> > > the onnv-gate repository (at build 72) which should make things easier
> > > to track in the future.
> >
> > That's good to hear!  I thought Apple yanking ZFS support from Mac OS
was
> > a really dumb idea.  Do you work for Apple?
>
> No, the entire effort is community based. Please feel free to join up to
the
> mailing list from the project page if you're interested in ZFS on Mac OSX.

I tried going to that URL, but got a 404 error...  :-(  What's the correct
one,
please?

--
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www.vinylphilemag.com
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Re: [zfs-discuss] Mac OS X clients with ZFS server

[Rich Teer]

On Fri, 23 Apr 2010, Alex Blewitt wrote:

> > > For your information, the ZFS project lives (well, limps really) on
> > > at http://code.google.com/p/mac-zfs. You can get ZFS for Snow Leopard
> > > from there and we're working on moving forwards from the ancient pool
> > > support to something more recent. I've relatively recently merged in
> > > the onnv-gate repository (at build 72) which should make things easier
> > > to track in the future.
> > 
> > That's good to hear!  I thought Apple yanking ZFS support from Mac OS was
> > a really dumb idea.  Do you work for Apple?
> 
> No, the entire effort is community based. Please feel free to join up to the
> mailing list from the project page if you're interested in ZFS on Mac OSX.

I tried going to that URL, but got a 404 error...  :-(  What's the correct one,
please?

-- 
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Vinylphile Magazine

www.vinylphilemag.com
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Re: [zfs-discuss] Mac OS X clients with ZFS server

[Rich Teer]

On Thu, 22 Apr 2010, Mike Mackovitch wrote:

> Oh, and the kernel.log should at least have the "lockd not responding"
> messages in it.  So, I presume you meant nothing *else* interesting.
> 
> I think it's time to look at the packets...

I'll double check later (my wife is currently using the lpatop).

> (...and perhaps time to move this off of zfs-discuss seeing as
> this is really an NFS/networking issue and not a ZFS issue.)

Sounds fair enough!  Let's move this to email; meanwhile, what's the
packet sniffing incantation I need to use?  On Solaris I'd use snoop,
but I don't htink Mac OS comes with that!

-- 
Rich Teer, Publisher
Vinylphile Magazine

www.vinylphilemag.com
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Re: [zfs-discuss] Mac OS X clients with ZFS server

[Alex Blewitt]

On 22 Apr 2010, at 20:50, Rich Teer  wrote:


On Thu, 22 Apr 2010, Alex Blewitt wrote:

Hi Alex,


For your information, the ZFS project lives (well, limps really) on
at http://code.google.com/p/mac-zfs. You can get ZFS for Snow Leopard
from there and we're working on moving forwards from the ancient pool
support to something more recent. I've relatively recently merged in
the onnv-gate repository (at build 72) which should make things  
easier

to track in the future.


That's good to hear!  I thought Apple yanking ZFS support from Mac  
OS was

a really dumb idea.  Do you work for Apple?


No, the entire effort is community based. Please feel free to join up  
to the mailing list from the project page if you're interested in ZFS  
on Mac OSX.


Alex
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Re: [zfs-discuss] Mac OS X clients with ZFS server

[Mike Mackovitch]

On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 02:53:37PM -0700, Rich Teer wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Apr 2010, Mike Mackovitch wrote:
> 
> > I would also check /var/log/system.log and /var/log/kernel.log on the Mac to
> > see if any other useful messages are getting logged.
> 
> Ah, we're getting closer.  The latter shows nothing interesting, but 
> system.log
> has this line appended the minute I try the copy:
> 
> sandboxd[78312]: portmap(78311) deny network-outbound 
> /private/var/tmp/launchd/sock
> 
> Then, when the attempt times out, these appear:
> 
> KernelEventAgent[36]: tid  received event(s) VQ_NOTRESP (1)
> KernelEventAgent[36]: tid  type 'nfs', mounted on 
> '/net/zen/export/home' from 'zen:/export/home', not responding
> KernelEventAgent[36]: tid  found 1 filesystem(s) with problem(s)
> 
> Does that shed any morelight on this?

Nope.

The first message is a known annoyance that gets logged whenever portmap
starts.  It can be ignored.

The second message is just the daemon responsible for inducing
the "disconnect dialog" noticing that there is an unresponsive
file system.

Oh, and the kernel.log should at least have the "lockd not responding"
messages in it.  So, I presume you meant nothing *else* interesting.

I think it's time to look at the packets...

(...and perhaps time to move this off of zfs-discuss seeing as
this is really an NFS/networking issue and not a ZFS issue.)

HTH
--macko
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Re: [zfs-discuss] Mac OS X clients with ZFS server

[Rich Teer]

On Thu, 22 Apr 2010, Mike Mackovitch wrote:

> I would also check /var/log/system.log and /var/log/kernel.log on the Mac to
> see if any other useful messages are getting logged.

Ah, we're getting closer.  The latter shows nothing interesting, but system.log
has this line appended the minute I try the copy:

sandboxd[78312]: portmap(78311) deny network-outbound 
/private/var/tmp/launchd/sock

Then, when the attempt times out, these appear:

KernelEventAgent[36]: tid  received event(s) VQ_NOTRESP (1)
KernelEventAgent[36]: tid  type 'nfs', mounted on 
'/net/zen/export/home' from 'zen:/export/home', not responding
KernelEventAgent[36]: tid  found 1 filesystem(s) with problem(s)

Does that shed any morelight on this?

-- 
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Re: [zfs-discuss] Mac OS X clients with ZFS server

[Mike Mackovitch]

On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 01:54:26PM -0700, Rich Teer wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Apr 2010, Mike Mackovitch wrote:
> 
> Hi Mike,
> 
> > So, it looks like you need to investigate why the client isn't
> > getting responses from the server's "lockd".
> > 
> > This is usually caused by a firewall or NAT getting in the way.
> 
> Great idea--I was indeed connected to my network using the AirPort interface,
> thorugh a Wifi router.  So as an experiment, I tried using a hard-wired,
> manually set up Ethernet connection.  Same result: no dice.  :-(
> 
> I checked the firewall settings on my laptop, and the firewall is turned off.
> 
> Do you have any other ideas?  It'd be really nice to get this working!

I would also check /var/log/system.log and /var/log/kernel.log on the Mac to
see if any other useful messages are getting logged.

Then I'd grab packet traces with wireshark/tcpdump/snoop *simultaneously* on
the client and the server, reproduce the problem, and then determine which
packets are being sent and which packets are being received.

HTH
--macko
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Re: [zfs-discuss] Mac OS X clients with ZFS server

[Rich Teer]

On Thu, 22 Apr 2010, Mike Mackovitch wrote:

Hi Mike,

> So, it looks like you need to investigate why the client isn't
> getting responses from the server's "lockd".
> 
> This is usually caused by a firewall or NAT getting in the way.

Great idea--I was indeed connected to my network using the AirPort interface,
thorugh a Wifi router.  So as an experiment, I tried using a hard-wired,
manually set up Ethernet connection.  Same result: no dice.  :-(

I checked the firewall settings on my laptop, and the firewall is turned off.

Do you have any other ideas?  It'd be really nice to get this working!

-- 
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Re: [zfs-discuss] Mac OS X clients with ZFS server

[Mike Mackovitch]

On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 12:40:37PM -0700, Rich Teer wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Apr 2010, Tomas Ögren wrote:
> 
> > Copying via terminal (and cp) works.
> 
> Interesting: if I copy a file *which has no extended attributes* using cp in
> a terminal, it works fine.  If I try to cp a file that has EA (to the same
> destination), it hangs.  But I get this error message after a few seconds:
> 
> cp file_without_EA /net/zen/export/home/rich
> cp file_with_EA /net/zen/export/home/rich
> nfs server zen:/export/home: lockd not responding

So, it looks like you need to investigate why the client isn't
getting responses from the server's "lockd".

This is usually caused by a firewall or NAT getting in the way.

HTH
--macko
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Re: [zfs-discuss] Mac OS X clients with ZFS server

[Rich Teer]

On Thu, 22 Apr 2010, Alex Blewitt wrote:

Hi Alex,

> For your information, the ZFS project lives (well, limps really) on
> at http://code.google.com/p/mac-zfs. You can get ZFS for Snow Leopard
> from there and we're working on moving forwards from the ancient pool
> support to something more recent. I've relatively recently merged in
> the onnv-gate repository (at build 72) which should make things easier
> to track in the future.

That's good to hear!  I thought Apple yanking ZFS support from Mac OS was
a really dumb idea.  Do you work for Apple?

> What are the problems? I have read-write files over a (Mac-exported)
> ZFS share via NFS to Mac clients, and that has no problem at all. It's
> possible that it could be permissions related, especially if you're
> using NFSv4 - AFAIK the Mac client is an alpha stage of that on Snow
> Leopard.

See my other messages for a description of the problem--but I am using
NFS v4 on the server, so that might be the cause of breakage...

> You could try listing the files (from OSX) with ls -...@e which should
> show you all the extended attributes and ACLs to see if that's causing
> a problem.

That ls command works (it shows files on the server), but of course, none
of the files shown atually have extended attributes...

-- 
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Re: [zfs-discuss] Mac OS X clients with ZFS server

[Rich Teer]

On Thu, 22 Apr 2010, Tomas Ögren wrote:

> Copying via terminal (and cp) works.

Interesting: if I copy a file *which has no extended attributes* using cp in
a terminal, it works fine.  If I try to cp a file that has EA (to the same
destination), it hangs.  But I get this error message after a few seconds:

cp file_without_EA /net/zen/export/home/rich
cp file_with_EA /net/zen/export/home/rich
nfs server zen:/export/home: lockd not responding

Note that the first cp is successful.  So, is there some server-side magic I
need to configure?  And if so, what is it?

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Re: [zfs-discuss] Mac OS X clients with ZFS server

[Alex Blewitt]

Rich, Shawn,

> Of course, it probably doesn't help that Apple, in their infinite wisdom, 
> canned
> native suport for ZFS in Snow Leopard (idiots).

For your information, the ZFS project lives (well, limps really) on at 
http://code.google.com/p/mac-zfs. You can get ZFS for Snow Leopard from there 
and we're working on moving forwards from the ancient pool support to something 
more recent. I've relatively recently merged in the onnv-gate repository (at 
build 72) which should make things easier to track in the future.

> Ah.  The file systems I'm trying to use are locally attached to the server, 
> and
> shared via NFS.

What are the problems? I have read-write files over a (Mac-exported) ZFS share 
via NFS to Mac clients, and that has no problem at all. It's possible that it 
could be permissions related, especially if you're using NFSv4 - AFAIK the Mac 
client is an alpha stage of that on Snow Leopard. 

You could try listing the files (from OSX) with ls -...@e which should show you 
all the extended attributes and ACLs to see if that's causing a problem.

Alex
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Re: [zfs-discuss] Mac OS X clients with ZFS server

[Tomas Ögren]

On 22 April, 2010 - Rich Teer sent me these 1,1K bytes:

> Hi all,
> 
> I have a server running SXCE b130 and I use ZFS for all file systems.  I
> also have a couple of workstations running the same OS, and all is well.
> But I also have a MacBook Pro laptop running Snow Leopard (OS X 10.6.3),
> and I have troubles creating files on exported ZFS file systems.
> 
> >From the laptop, I can read and write existing files on the exported ZFS
> file systems just fine, but I can't create new ones.  My understanding is
> that Mac OS makes extensive use of file attributes so I was wondering if
> this might be the cause of the problem (I know ZFS supports file attributes,
> but I wonder if I have to utter some magic incantation to get them working
> properly with Mac OS).

I've noticed some issues with copying files to an smb share from macosx
clients like the last week.. haven't had time to investigate it fully,
but it sure seems EA related..
Copying a file from smb to smb (via the client) works as long as the
file hasn't gotten any EA yet.. If I for instance do the "hide file
ext", then it's not working anymore. Enabling EA on a file works, but
creating one with EA doesn't.. So it seems like a Finder bug..

Copying via terminal (and cp) works.

> At the moment I have a workaround: I use sftp to copy the files from the
> laptop to the server.  But this is a pain in the ass and I'm sure there's
> a way to make this just work properly!

/Tomas
-- 
Tomas Ögren, st...@acc.umu.se, http://www.acc.umu.se/~stric/
|- Student at Computing Science, University of Umeå
`- Sysadmin at {cs,acc}.umu.se
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Re: [zfs-discuss] Mac OS X clients with ZFS server

[Rich Teer]

On Thu, 22 Apr 2010, Shawn Ferry wrote:

> I haven't seen this behavior. However, all of my file systems used by my
> Mac are pool version 8 fs ver 2. I don't know if that could be part of your
> problem or not.

Thanks for the info.  I should have said that all the file systems I'm using
were created on the Solaris server, rather than ther Mac.  It's just files on
that Solaris-created ZFS file system that I'm having problems creating.

Of course, it probably doesn't help that Apple, in their infinite wisdom, canned
native suport for ZFS in Snow Leopard (idiots).

> I am attaching two ways direct attach and iSCSI zvol with pool and FS created
> locally.

Ah.  The file systems I'm trying to use are locally attached to the server, and
shared via NFS.

Does anyone else have any ideas?

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Re: [zfs-discuss] Mac OS X clients with ZFS server

[Shawn Ferry]

On Apr 22, 2010, at 1:26 PM, Rich Teer wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> I have a server running SXCE b130 and I use ZFS for all file systems.  I
> also have a couple of workstations running the same OS, and all is well.
> But I also have a MacBook Pro laptop running Snow Leopard (OS X 10.6.3),
> and I have troubles creating files on exported ZFS file systems.
> 
> From the laptop, I can read and write existing files on the exported ZFS
> file systems just fine, but I can't create new ones.  My understanding is
> that Mac OS makes extensive use of file attributes so I was wondering if
> this might be the cause of the problem (I know ZFS supports file attributes,
> but I wonder if I have to utter some magic incantation to get them working
> properly with Mac OS).
> 
> At the moment I have a workaround: I use sftp to copy the files from the
> laptop to the server.  But this is a pain in the ass and I'm sure there's
> a way to make this just work properly!

I haven't seen this behavior. However, all of my file systems used by my
Mac are pool version 8 fs ver 2. I don't know if that could be part of your
problem or not.

I am attaching two ways direct attach and iSCSI zvol with pool and FS created
locally.

Shawn 

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[zfs-discuss] Mac OS X clients with ZFS server

[Rich Teer]

Hi all,

I have a server running SXCE b130 and I use ZFS for all file systems.  I
also have a couple of workstations running the same OS, and all is well.
But I also have a MacBook Pro laptop running Snow Leopard (OS X 10.6.3),
and I have troubles creating files on exported ZFS file systems.

>From the laptop, I can read and write existing files on the exported ZFS
file systems just fine, but I can't create new ones.  My understanding is
that Mac OS makes extensive use of file attributes so I was wondering if
this might be the cause of the problem (I know ZFS supports file attributes,
but I wonder if I have to utter some magic incantation to get them working
properly with Mac OS).

At the moment I have a workaround: I use sftp to copy the files from the
laptop to the server.  But this is a pain in the ass and I'm sure there's
a way to make this just work properly!

Any help greatfully recieved!

TIA,

-- 
Rich Teer, Publisher
Vinylphile Magazine

www.vinylphilemag.com
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