[abcusers] Modes: Greeks and others

The cyclic nature of the 7 normal 7-note 'Greek' modes leads to semitone sequences of the modes being a cyclic permutation of any one of them taken as reference. This is also found for the normal hexatonic and pentatonic modes. In fact it holds all the way down to 2 2-note modes with semitone sequ

Re: [abcusers] Modes without the maths

John Chambers wrote "...That "phrygian major" sounds a lot like what the people to the south and east of Spain call "hejaz" and klezmer musicians call "freygish". Phrygian with a raised 3rd ..." Yes. In Ephr, the ^G from the E major in the harmony creeps into the tune now and again. But for m

Re: [abcusers] Modes without the maths

Jack Campin asks: | > If it's in E phrygian and is a flamenco piece (perhaps "phrygian major") | > you'll hear a characteristic ending sequence of "Am" => G7 => Fmaj7 => E | > If it's in the minor phrygian then I haven't a clue and the same applies | > to F lydian. | | I don't think I've encounter

Re: [abcusers] Modes without the maths

> If it's in E phrygian and is a flamenco piece (perhaps "phrygian major") > you'll hear a characteristic ending sequence of "Am" => G7 => Fmaj7 => E > If it's in the minor phrygian then I haven't a clue and the same applies > to F lydian. I don't think I've encountered that distinction between t

AW: [abcusers] Modes without the maths

> Laurie wrote: > ... > To summarise it so you can see it at a glance, here it is as > a table. The > final sequence is the first two chords in reverse order e.g. G7=>C. > > K:Cmaj CG7 F > K:Ddor Dm E (G, Bm) > K:Ephr EFmaj7 G7 Am > K:Gmix GF (C) > K:Aaeo

[abcusers] Modes without the maths

Tonic is important because it says where the tune is going. Mode is important because it says how the tune is going to get there. If a tune is in an open key (no white notes on the harpsichord) then in the major (or "Ionian") mode the obvious harmony is the "three chord trick" C, G7 and F. The

Re: [abcusers] Modes - request & Sequencing question.

>| The tune is 'Mike Hoban's Air' and is located in a slightly separated >| manner at the bottom of the list of tunes on that page. > It's a nice tune, and it's in A dorian. This is the most common > "minor" mode in traditional Irish and Scottish music, which is why it > probably sounds Iris

Re: [abcusers] Modes - request & Sequencing question.

Indeed.Excellent.. and understandable.. Thank you Phil!.. Definitely going into the 'keep' box. //Christian > In message , Phil Taylor > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >>Key Sig Major MinorMix Dor Phr Lyd Loc >>Io

Re: [abcusers] Modes - request & Sequencing question.

In message , Phil Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >Key Sig Major MinorMix Dor Phr Lyd Loc >Ionian Aeolian About (maybe) a year ago Phil posted this chart here, and I've kept it as an Excel spreadsheet and constantly

Re: [abcusers] Modes - request & Sequencing question.

>... >| The tune is 'Mike Hoban's Air' and is located in a slightly separated >| manner at the bottom of the list of tunes on that page. > >It's a nice tune, and it's in A dorian. This is the most common >"minor" mode in traditional Irish and Scottish music, which is why it >probably sounds

Re: [abcusers] Modes - request & Sequencing question.

... | The tune is 'Mike Hoban's Air' and is located in a slightly separated | manner at the bottom of the list of tunes on that page. It's a nice tune, and it's in A dorian. This is the most common "minor" mode in traditional Irish and Scottish music, which is why it probably sounds Irish t

[abcusers] Modes - request & Sequencing question.

I've notated a tune in abc, authored by a semi local, now deceased gentleman and am currently having those familiar with his work and this tune review it for accuracy and such. It is NOT ready for distribution, so please do not reference or copy the file(s), which I made available online for our

Re: [abcusers] modes (again)

Here's a slightly improved version of the Key-Signature-Scoring mode graph or table now on my website. The numerical assignments (convenient but not unique) of key, signature, and mode) are for algebraic use in a computer, so you can ignore them when scoring or analyzing (descoring?) a tune by han

Re: [abcusers] modes (again)

Laurie (ukonline) wrote: > > Laurie>Sure, but I've seen quite a few tunes with K:D and then every > single C in the piece naturalised. In those cases invariably the > description > is half right - the tonic D is right, but the mode is wrong. > > Eric> so does it means the right notation was to

Re: [abcusers] modes (again)

Laurie>Sure, but I've seen quite a few tunes with K:D and then every single C in the piece naturalised. In those cases invariably the description is half right - the tonic D is right, but the mode is wrong. Eric> so does it means the right notation was to write K:Dm ? Probably K:Ddor Dm tends

Re: [abcusers] modes (again)

On Thu, 2002-06-27 at 17:59, Forgeot Eric wrote: > >| ... It was already too late to change when I first mentioned > it. > > Since it's not possible to add a new field dedicated to mode, I > thought it was possible to write 2 K: fields in a tune, if > necessary : the first one for the signature,

[abcusers] modes (again)

>| ... It was already too late to change when I first mentioned it. Since it's not possible to add a new field dedicated to mode, I thought it was possible to write 2 K: fields in a tune, if necessary : the first one for the signature, and the second one to *precise* the mode used, so clever app

Re: [abcusers] Modes (and iabc & skink)

On Mon, 2002-06-24 at 19:08, Forgeot Eric wrote: > >> Iabc doesn't understand the K:Am > > >That's completely unacceptable; the program should never have > been > >released in that state. > > It's not very kind for the author. I think it have to : it's good > to see a new application. No comme

[abcusers] Modes (and iabc & skink)

>> Iabc doesn't understand the K:Am >That's completely unacceptable; the program should never have been >released in that state. It's not very kind for the author. I think it have to : it's good to see a new application. And as far as I'm concerned, I've never used modes in the K: fields but onl

[abcusers] Modes tutorial updated

I've uploaded a new version of the modes tutorial on my website (see the URL below). Let me know of any problems? === === To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html

Re: [abcusers] Modes and key signatures (Was: Hi)

Someone (don't remember who) wrote: ... > in a 'Greek' mode scale ... I'm not going to reenter this discussion at the moment, but just a word of caution. Be careful with the phrase "Greek modes". The ancient Greek mode system is not the same as the one we are using today. The same names apply t

Re: [abcusers] Modes and key signatures (Was: Hi)

Let me see if I can get to grips with what Bruce is trying to say. >Quoting the first 2 sentences from Chris Walshaw's Introduction on >the ABC home page we have: >"abc is a language designed to notate tunes in an ascii > format. No argument there. >It was designed primarily for folk and trad

Re: [abcusers] Modes and key signatures (Was: Hi)

Laurie Griffiths wrote: > > >What we have for the situation key sig/tonic/scoring mode is > >practically trivial algebra. [Simple minded Gramm-Schmidt > >procedure to get an orthonormal set of basis vectors that span > >the space.] > > I bet that there are some [virtually] present who would rega

Re: [abcusers] Modes and key signatures (Was: Hi)

Well put, Laurie. I'm also a fiddle player (and cittern, mandolin, guitar) and I don't think in terms of black and white keys either. A number of people have suggested changes to the way key/mode specifications are made. These seem to be grouped in two broad categories: 1. "It doesn't quite do

Re: [abcusers] Modes and key signatures (Was: Hi)

Frank Nordbergwrites: | John Chambers wrote: | > An interesting musicological diversion: After getting involved with | > Eastern-European and Middle-Eastern music, and also playing a lot of | > Baroque music, some of Vivaldi's music started to make more sense. | > There are a number of

Re: [abcusers] Modes and key signatures (Was: Hi)

>What we have for the situation key sig/tonic/scoring mode is >practically trivial algebra. [Simple minded Gramm-Schmidt >procedure to get an orthonormal set of basis vectors that span >the space.] I bet that there are some [virtually] present who would regard Gramm-Schmidt as very highly adva

Re: [abcusers] Modes and key signatures (Was: Hi)

Richard L Walker remarked: | Hmm, maybe actually defining the scale (as below) within an abc file | wouldn't be such a hot idea after all. Yeah. There have been a few suggestions that we have a way of defining modes. It's not really very difficult to come up with schemes to do this

Re: [abcusers] Modes and key signatures (Was: Hi)

I'd prefer "unknown" to "none" for this case. K:unknown _b "None" says to me that it's atonal. I'd like to reserve "none" for the atonal case where it does deliver a very important musical message. "Unknown" would be particularly appropriate for things like the Vivaldi and Bach that J.C. rece

Re: [abcusers] Modes and key signatures (Was: Hi)

John Chambers wrote: ... > > An interesting musicological diversion: After getting involved with > Eastern-European and Middle-Eastern music, and also playing a lot of > Baroque music, some of Vivaldi's music started to make more sense. > There are a number of passages in his music

RE: [abcusers] Modes and key signatures (Was: Hi)

Hmm, maybe actually defining the scale (as below) within an abc file wouldn't be such a hot idea after all. "Richard L Walker"<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Pensacola, FL 32504-7726 USA -Original Message- | > This gives a scale of C _D E F G A _B c. | Oh, "mixolydian with flattened 2nd" then. The

Re: [abcusers] Modes and key signatures (Was: Hi)

| > Frank Nordberg wrote: | > This gives a scale of C _D E F G A _B c. | | Oh, "mixolydian with flattened 2nd" then. The "phrygian with major | third" would be | C _D E F G _A _B c Hmmm ... I seem to have gotten both of them wrong, too. I meant C _D E F G _A _B c I was sorta simultaneously w

Re: [abcusers] Modes and key signatures (Was: Hi)

Jack Campin writes: | > _b +-unspecified-+ Bb | | This last one seems potentially disastrous, as almost any newcomer | to ABC would assume it meant B flat major (in fact it's the way I'd | *prefer* to write B flat major). | | How about a new keyword to warn the user when one of these odditi

Re: [abcusers] Modes and key signatures (Was: Hi)

John Chambers wrote: > > Bruce Olson writes: > | Why so awkward? I've already shown how to do this quite simply with > | J:, [] and in the K: you still have the > | logic flaw. It's going to be a developer's nightmare to resolve any > | inconsistanies in the triple K:spec. > > The main reason is

Re: [abcusers] Modes and key signatures (Was: Hi)

>> But is there a compelling reason why we should not define "E hejaz" or >> "E freygish"? (in a similar manner to the definition proposed for chords) > We certainly could do that, or better, provide a means for users to define > their own named modes. However, there will be some problems with t

Re: [abcusers] Modes and key signatures (Was: Hi)

> See if I've got this right: > > K: RootMode Key signature > Dlyd D lydian F# - C# - G# > DD majorF# - C# > D^e_fD sillyE# - Fb > D^f^c=g D none F# - C# - G natural > _b +-unspecified-+ Bb This last one seems potentially

Re: [abcusers] Modes and key signatures (Was: Hi)

John Chambers wrote: > > Frank Nordberg wrote: ... > | It's > | K:C _a _b % hejaz > > Nope. The "hejaz" (or "hijaz") scale has a flat 2nd I know, I noticed my error right after I had posted the message. > > and a sharp 3rd. > It can be treated as either phrygian with a major 3rd or mixoly

Re: [abcusers] Modes and key signatures (Was: Hi)

Yes! I was asleep, you weren't. Thanks for the correction. - Original Message - From: Bert Van Vreckem <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 9:31 AM Subject: Re: [abcusers] Modes and key signatures (Was: Hi) Laurie Griffiths wrote

Re: [abcusers] Modes and key signatures (Was: Hi)

James Allwright | I have a further suggestion for handling arbitrary modes which promotes | them to part of the abc, but doesn't require the application to know | all possible modes; allow the K: field to have a mode= subfield. This | will do the following: | | 1. Check the number of sharps an

Re: [abcusers] Modes and key signatures (Was: Hi)

Frank Nordberg wrote: | James Allwright wrote: | > K:C ^b _f % hejaz | > conveys the same information and is fully backwards-compatible. | | A very good idea!!! :-) | > (I'm sure this example is wrong because I have no idea what hejaz is). | | It's | K:C _a _b % hejaz Nope. The "hejaz" (or "hi

Re: [abcusers] Modes and key signatures (Was: Hi)

Frank Nordberg wrote: >Phil Taylor wrote: >> >> I don't think that we need to change the standard by very much here; after >> all, what goes into the abc is not going to change, only the way in which >> programs interpret it - and that could simply be a local option. So the >> standard could just

Re: [abcusers] Modes and key signatures (Was: Hi)

James Allwright wrote: ... > Writing something like > > K:C ^b _f % hejaz > > conveys the same information and is fully backwards-compatible. A very good idea!!! :-) > (I'm sure this example is wrong because I have no idea what hejaz is). It's K:C _a _b % hejaz Frank Nordberg To subscr

Re: [abcusers] Modes and key signatures (Was: Hi)

Phil Taylor wrote: > > I don't think that we need to change the standard by very much here; after > all, what goes into the abc is not going to change, only the way in which > programs interpret it - and that could simply be a local option. So the > standard could just say that "global accident

Re: [abcusers] Modes and key signatures (Was: Hi)

John Chambers wrote: >Bruce Olson writes: >| Why so awkward? I've already shown how to do this quite simply with >| J:, [] and in the K: you still have the >| logic flaw. It's going to be a developer's nightmare to resolve any >| inconsistanies in the triple K:spec. > >The main reason is that I, f

Re: [abcusers] Modes and key signatures (Was: Hi)

On Wed 07 Mar 2001 at 12:35AM +, Phil Taylor wrote: > Wil wrote: > > >But is there a compelling reason why we should not define > >"E hejaz" or "E freygish"? (in a similar manner to the definition > >proposed for chords) > > I assume we are talking about the K: field here, and I think there

Re: [abcusers] Modes and key signatures (Was: Hi)

On Wed 07 Mar 2001 at 01:30AM +, John Chambers wrote: > Wil writes: > | But is there a compelling reason why we should not define > | "E hejaz" or "E freygish"? (in a similar manner to the definition > | proposed for chords) I have a further suggestion for handling arbitrary modes which prom

Re: [abcusers] Modes and key signatures (Was: Hi)

Laurie Griffiths wrote: > For instance if you write a tune in C and then realise that you have > sharped every single G in the piece you can tell Muse to change > the key signature to G and preverve the pitch of the notes. ... and I'm sure you meant F there on the second line? ;-) -- bert van

Re: [abcusers] Modes and key signatures (Was: Hi)

On the subject of global accidentals John Chambers wrote: >... >The idea of a tool with an option to distribute accidentals through >the music does strike me as potentially useful in some obscure >situations. >... At the moment Muse doesn't support global accidentals, but does have thi

Re: [abcusers] Modes and key signatures (Was: Hi)

Bruce Olson writes: | Why so awkward? I've already shown how to do this quite simply with | J:, [] and in the K: you still have the | logic flaw. It's going to be a developer's nightmare to resolve any | inconsistanies in the triple K:spec. The main reason is that I, for one, didn't follow the de

Re: [abcusers] Modes and key signatures (Was: Hi)

Wil writes: | But is there a compelling reason why we should not define | "E hejaz" or "E freygish"? (in a similar manner to the definition | proposed for chords) Well, I'd like that, and maybe in another year or so we will want to officially sanction some more modes like these. It would help m

Re: [abcusers] Modes and key signatures (Was: Hi)

John Chambers wrote: > >. > given, major is assumed. It has been suggested that in my extended >K: > syntax, the same default should apply. I think this is a bad idea. In > my implementation in abc2ps, what I did was to say that if only the > is given, with noor , then maj

Re: [abcusers] Modes and key signatures (Was: Hi)

Frank Nordberg writes: | ... To avoid a potential sidetrack, here's a quote from the | abc 1.6. standard: | | Finally, global accidentals can also be set in this field so | that, for example, K:D =c would write the key signature as two | sharps (key of D) but then mark every

Re: [abcusers] Modes and key signatures (Was: Hi)

Wil wrote: >But is there a compelling reason why we should not define >"E hejaz" or "E freygish"? (in a similar manner to the definition >proposed for chords) > We certainly could do that, or better, provide a means for users to define their own named modes. However, there will be some problem

Re: [abcusers] Modes and key signatures (Was: Hi)

Laura wrote: >> "Frank" == Frank Nordberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >Frank> So, the standard clearly states that global accidentals is >Frank> *not* a part of the key signature. > >John has been campaigning to change that, on the grounds that nobody >has ever been known to use it.

Re: [abcusers] Modes and key signatures (Was: Hi)

Laura Conrad wrote: > > > Many people feel that the current syntax for global accidentals which > are not part of the key signature would be more useful and intuitive > if it were used for accidentals which are part of the key signature. I have no problems with that. As long as we're talking

Re: [abcusers] Modes and key signatures (Was: Hi)

But is there a compelling reason why we should not define "E hejaz" or "E freygish"? (in a similar manner to the definition proposed for chords) wil Frank Nordberg wrote: > John Chambers wrote: > > > > One minor quibble, which deals with a marginal issue that I'd like to > > mention: I think

Re: [abcusers] Modes and key signatures (Was: Hi)

On Tue, 6 Mar 2001, John Chambers wrote: > > Of course, with case 3, you want to be able to omit both the root > (aka tonic) and the mode when it's not practical to get them right. > But in cases 1 and 2, the ideal would be to encourage people to give > the tonic if they know it, plus the

Re: [abcusers] Modes and key signatures (Was: Hi)

> "Frank" == Frank Nordberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Frank> So, the standard clearly states that global accidentals is Frank> *not* a part of the key signature. John has been campaigning to change that, on the grounds that nobody has ever been known to use it. I know you suggeste

Re: [abcusers] Modes and key signatures (Was: Hi)

John Chambers wrote: > > One minor quibble, which deals with a marginal issue that I'd like to > mention: I think the "without implying a root" isn't the main thing > here; it would be better to say "without stating a mode". I stand corrected. ... > > So my "marginal" point: The current

Re: [abcusers] Modes and key signatures (Was: Hi)

Frank Nordberg writes: | I think it's time to discuss modes and key signatures again. ... | We need a way to notate key signatures without implying a root for three purposes: | |1. To be able to notate as correctly as possible music that doesn't fit the | modal system. |2. To be abl

[abcusers] Modes and key signatures (Was: Hi)

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... > > As I recall, a great deal was said about how good the tonic+mode > system was... I think it's time to discuss modes and key signatures again. I know this'll be extremely difficult, but could we please start completely from scratch? Just forget *everything* tha

Re: [abcusers] Modes, democracy and benevolent(?) dictatorship

| > I would like to see in BarFly is a "Save as standard abc" menu | > command. A text file would be saved (and displayed) that preserves | > as much of the active file as possible without using any features | > not found in the current standard. V: lines and whatever else | > would eith

Re: [abcusers] Modes, democracy and benevolent(?) dictatorship

Laurie wrote: >I suspect that a greater problem lies in the finer detail. For instance >(not saying BF, Muse or any particular package does or does not >accept any of these things, they are just to give a feel) > I think BarFly will reject all of those, except for the long title, where it will

Re: [abcusers] Modes, democracy and benevolent(?) dictatorship

Believe me, I found *lots* of them out there on the web. Laurie - Original Message - From: Phil Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 12:17 AM Subject: Re: [abcusers] Modes, democracy and benevolent(?) dictatorship David Barnert wro

Re: [abcusers] Modes, democracy and benevolent(?) dictatorship

In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Of course, this does run contrary to the other common approach, which > might be summarized "If the ABC has even a tiny error, you should > reject it, lest people be encouraged to keep making errors." The consequence of this is to

Re: [abcusers] Modes, zipped files etc.

Wendy Galovich says - > I hope they wouldn't mind if you wanted to add your tune pages to > the world wide index at some point, once the abcs are in plain text. No problem, but bear in mind these tunes are aimed at relatively inexperienced musicians who want to join in some of the tune s

Re: [abcusers] Modes, zipped files etc.

At 08:21 PM 10/17/00 EDT, you wrote: >Frank Nordberg says - > >> And while you're at it, could you add a clear link path from the Lewes >> Arms main page to the page with the ABCs? > >Well, not really, owing to domestic politics. The ABCs belong to the Lewes >Favourites Practice Sessions which i

Re: [abcusers] Modes, democracy and benevolent(?) dictatorship

> I would like to see in BarFly is a "Save as standard abc" menu > command. A text file would be saved (and displayed) that preserves > as much of the active file as possible without using any features > not found in the current standard. V: lines and whatever else > would either be stripped or "c

Re: [abcusers] Modes, zipped files etc.

Frank Nordberg says - > And while you're at it, could you add a clear link path from the Lewes > Arms main page to the page with the ABCs? Well, not really, owing to domestic politics. The ABCs belong to the Lewes Favourites Practice Sessions which is an entirely separate organisation from th

Re: [abcusers] Modes, democracy and benevolent(?) dictatorship

David Barnert wrote: >Just a little earlier in this thread, it occurred to me that what >I would like to see in BarFly is a "Save as standard abc" menu >command. A text file would be saved (and displayed) that preserves >as much of the active file as possible without using any features >not found

Re: [abcusers] Modes, democracy and benevolent(?) dictatorship

For what it's worth, when I wrote Skink I decided to accept the 1.6 standard plus W: and w: and the Barfly decorations (T for trill, H for fermata, etc) as my first pass, and then add V: for the second release. Why? they seemed the most useful to me, as a user with fairly "non-esoteric" needs.

Re: [abcusers] Modes, democracy and benevolent(?) dictatorship

David Barnert wrote: | Just a little earlier in this thread, it occurred to me that what | I would like to see in BarFly is a "Save as standard abc" menu | command. A text file would be saved (and displayed) that preserves | as much of the active file as possible without using any featur

Re: [abcusers] Modes, democracy and benevolent(?) dictatorship

Laurie wrote: >Right - programs should accept the widest choice but generate >standard ABC. >BUT >Think about Barfly. It doesn't generate at all. >If it accepts mangled syntax then it encourages and legitimises >such mangling If it refuses to, then it is "broken" - so it >needs careful th

Re: [abcusers] Modes, democracy and benevolent(?) dictatorship

Bob writes: | I am obviously not getting my point aross correctly. I've always been | slightly suspicious of the "be liberal in what you accept and strict in | what you output" rule, particularly when what you're accepting is, in many | cases, human generated. ... | | This is exactly my

Re: [abcusers] Modes, democracy and benevolent(?) dictatorship

> "Bob" == Bob Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Bob> This is exactly my point, and why I asked the question about Bob> what superset of abc a new program writer would be advised to Bob> support. I notice that nobody has answered that yet. I'd recommend the draft standard plus d

Re: [abcusers] Modes, democracy and benevolent(?) dictatorship

At 02:28 AM 17-10-00 +0100, Richard Robinson wrote: >Yes. I think we're both saying "six of one, half a dozen of the other", >really, and the old "be liberal in what you accept and strict in what you >output". And maybe that what's generated is more of a key to the situation >than what's accepted

Re: [abcusers] Modes, democracy and benevolent(?) dictatorship

Laurie Griffiths wrote: >Right - programs should accept the widest choice but generate standard ABC. >BUT >Think about Barfly. It doesn't generate at all. That's true in a sense, since BarFly is a text editor, and accepts any text you type into it and saves it without qualms. >If it accepts ma

Re: [abcusers] Modes, democracy and benevolent(?) dictatorship

: Monday, October 16, 2000 8:10 PM Subject: Re: [abcusers] Modes, democracy and benevolent(?) dictatorship On Mon, 16 Oct 2000, Bob Archer wrote: > To finish off with, I am going to restate my basic premise: > > The more variants of abc programs accept, the less useful abc is as an

Re: [abcusers] Modes, democracy and benevolent(?) dictatorship

On Mon, 16 Oct 2000, Bob Archer wrote: > We have to be at some point on the sliding scale between the two extremes, > and that involves balancing things off against each other. In particular we > seem to have "usefulness as an exchange mechanism" pitted directly against > "allows programmers to in

Re: [abcusers] Modes, democracy and benevolent(?) dictatorship

On Mon, 16 Oct 2000, Bob Archer wrote: > At 08:10 PM 16-10-00 +0100, Richard Robinson wrote: > >On Mon, 16 Oct 2000, Bob Archer wrote: > > > >> The more variants of abc programs accept, the less useful abc is as an > >> exchange mechanism. > > > >Reductio ad absurdum: if abc programs accept no va

Re: [abcusers] Modes, democracy and benevolent(?) dictatorship

At 08:10 PM 16-10-00 +0100, Richard Robinson wrote: >On Mon, 16 Oct 2000, Bob Archer wrote: > >> To finish off with, I am going to restate my basic premise: >> >> The more variants of abc programs accept, the less useful abc is as an >> exchange mechanism. > >Reductio ad absurdum: if abc program

Re: [abcusers] Modes, democracy and benevolent(?) dictatorship

On Mon, 16 Oct 2000, Bob Archer wrote: > To finish off with, I am going to restate my basic premise: > > The more variants of abc programs accept, the less useful abc is as an > exchange mechanism. Reductio ad absurdum: if abc programs accept no variants of abc they'll be universal exchange me

Re: [abcusers] Modes, democracy and benevolent(?) dictatorship

At 06:48 AM 16-10-00 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > Bryan writes: > >| I will, but as I have said, abc is useless as an exchange medium if we ar= >| e=20 >| not all talking the same language. > >Well, now, it seems to me that this is disproved by even a casual >glance at the cur

Re: [abcusers] Modes, zipped files etc.

> ... In > fact one of the most vociferous arguers does charge for his software. I think the vociferous arguer must be someone else, but it occurs to me that the history of Muse finances might interest other developers. Muse was the source of some very bitter feelings between my wife and me.

Re: [abcusers] Modes, democracy and benevolent(?) dictatorship

Bryan writes: | I will, but as I have said, abc is useless as an exchange medium if we ar= | e=20 | not all talking the same language. Well, now, it seems to me that this is disproved by even a casual glance at the current situation. There is a fairly significant range of discrep

Re: [abcusers] Modes, zipped files etc.

At 05:12 AM 10/16/2000 EDT, you wrote: >I am sorry that you think I have been ignoring that, so I will make my view >more explicit. I do not think that the fact that some developers are >volunteers entitles them to dictate to users what they can or cannot have in >abc. Nobody is forcing them

Re: [abcusers] Modes, zipped files etc.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > Wendy Galovich says - > > > That being the case, Brian, then the first thing I'd do is put > > those abcs out on the site in plain text format, rather than, or at > > least in addition to the zipped files... > > You are absolutely right. Great. And while you'r

Re: [abcusers] Modes, democracy and benevolent(?) dictatorship

> ... > http://members.aol.com/LewesArmsFolk/Lewesfav.html. > ... > Bryan Lewes. I do hope that you have avoided or survived the floods without damage. Laurie To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html

[abcusers] Modes, zipped files etc.

Wendy Galovich says - > That being the case, Brian, then the first thing I'd do is put > those abcs out on the site in plain text format, rather than, or at > least in addition to the zipped files. Every site I've seen listed on > the ABC index on Chris Walshaw's site has the notation out in

Re: [abcusers] Modes, democracy and benevolent(?) dictatorship

At 09:41 PM 10/15/2000 EDT, you wrote: > >http://members.aol.com/LewesArmsFolk/Lewesfav.html. It appears on the abc >homepage under abc collections as "Favourite English dance tunes from the >Lewes sessions, Sussex". I'd like this to be accessible to other people's >software. That be

[abcusers] Modes, democracy and benevolent(?) dictatorship

Phil Taylor says - > Any system of democracy involves a franchise: there are always some people > who are entitled to vote and some who are not. We don't allow children, > criminals, lunatics or the Queen to elect our politicians I'm sure "the vast majority of users" will be glad to know the h

Re: [abcusers] Modes

> "Richard" == Richard Robinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Richard> On Sat, 14 Oct 2000, Laurie Griffiths wrote: >> Not sure if the users list is actually dead and rotted or if it >> exists but is unused. The difference is academic anyway. Richard> It is, but ... I tried i

Re: [abcusers] Modes

> > History: There used to be an ABC developers list, only. Then there was a > > users list as well, then development issues started getting discussed on the > > users list and a consensus seemed to develop that users were interested > > enough in what went on that everything was on the users li

[abcusers] Modes, boors, bores, and the trash at the curb...

Phil Taylor gave us Barfly. Though I don't use a Mac I am given to understand that Barfly is the defacto standard for abc software on that platform and that it does a pretty good job of playing and scoring abc. Laurie Griffiths gave us Muse. It doesn't "flip my personal wipper" but I'd be th

Re: [abcusers] Modes

On Sat, 14 Oct 2000, Laurie Griffiths wrote: > > > WHAT? Says who? This is the abc USERS list. > > History: There used to be an ABC developers list, only. Then there was a > users list as well, then development issues started getting discussed on the > users list and a consensus seemed

Re: [abcusers] Modes

> You, infamously, said "WE like it the way it is." You are starting to annoy me. What I said was that we like it ... AND that reading through the thread would show who "we" is. In other words that there were several people, including myself who were of that opinion and that if you wanted t

Re: [abcusers] Modes

Bryan Creer wrote: >Laurie Grifiths says - > >> History: There used to be an ABC developers list, only. Then there was a >> users list as well, then development issues started getting discussed on the >> users list and a consensus seemed to develop that users were interested >> enough in what w

Re: [abcusers] Modes (was O'Neill errors)

Frank Nordberg wrote: >> | Incidentally, JC's problem could easily be dealt with within the current >> | abc definition by means of global accidentals. If programs offered the >> | option to add these to the key signature rather than scattering them >>through >> | the music as accidentals you cou

[abcusers] Modes

Frank Nordberg says - > Sometimes I think that the main difference between Open Source > and commercial programs is that the commercial program developers are > *more* responsive to the wishes and needs of the users. Oh I don't know. This whole thing rather reminds me of a parody of a Microsof

[abcusers] Modes

Laurie Grifiths says - > History: There used to be an ABC developers list, only. Then there was a > users list as well, then development issues started getting discussed on the > users list and a consensus seemed to develop that users were interested > enough in what went on that everything wa

Re: [abcusers] Modes (was O'Neill errors)

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > Phil Taylor writes: > | Bryan Creer wrote: > | ... > | > | ... You haven't > | managed to convince any of the developers except for John Chambers > | who is only partially convinced because of his interest in Klezmer and > | other such music which use

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