Kathie,
When I do back-to-back breedings the time I wait is until the next heat cycle
- this can be anywhere from six months (from the start of the previous heat
cycle - which produces puppies six months from birthdate of previous litter -
plus or minus) up to nine months, or more, if that is h
Hi Margareta,
Thank you for the information.
You do not have many dogs in the shelter. This is wonderful.
Wish we didn't had such a big problem in the US. Maybe education, plus early
spay/neuter will help for the future.
Sylvia Katvala
Tucson, AZ
[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Svara till: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Datum: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 12:17:51 -0700
> Till: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Ämne: Mixed in shelters?Re: frequency of breeding & evaluation (long)
>
> Hi Margareta,
>
> Your system s
Hi Margareta,
Your system seems to be working well for your area.
Does this mean you don't have shelters?
What about mix breeds?
We do have a big problem in the US with too many animals in shelters and a
large percentage purebreds. They also have to put a lot down, because they
shelters are full
hen it
comes to breeding dogs - all serious breeders and dogowners like to be more
educated.
Of course their are or have been some unserious breeders, but they have
great difficulties selling their pups because registration in SKK has been
the most normal for a pup. You can say it is the dogs passpor
I think this information is very, very interesting! It sounds like things
work as they do in Sweden because of an informed/educated public and a Code
of Ethics with some teeth behind it -- and the public disgrace aspect
probably helps as well. When this COE was developed and implemented, was
there
- Original Message -
From: "Cecilia Ståhl" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 3:38 PM
Subject: Re: frequency of breeding & evaluation (long)
> Pat,
>
> I can only speak from what I know of here in Sweden.
Cecilia,
Is there any way to find out how many breeders are breeding outside of the club? I
know in many European countries with strict club rules like this, the percentage of
breeders operating outside of the club seems quite high. Is there anyway to know?
Pat Long (& Luther)
Berwy
f the breeder's violations and exclusion from the ShKK
and the SKK.
Cecilia Ståhl
Stockholm, Sweden
(BTW, anyone is welcome to send questions in regards to breeding policy here
in Sweden at [EMAIL PROTECTED] , they might be short staffed at the moment with
summer vacations, but they will definite
AIL PROTECTED]
> Datum: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 05:25:21 -0600
> Till: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Kopia: "Bernese Mountain Dog Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Ämne: Re: frequency of breeding & evalation (long)
>
> Thank you so much for sharing that information. I have a ques
Thank you so much for sharing that information. I have a question -- what
happens if someone violate the Breeders' Code of Ethics?
Mary-Ann Bowman
ior qualities as described in the 4 respective breed standards. The
commitee has it foundation in the "Genetics & Breeders' Ethical Code" which
was established in June 1984. It has since been audited and revised 8 times.
The Code of Breeding Ethics includes general rules pertaini
In the late 70's a lady, who had a vision for improving the orthopedics
of our breed, was promoting the idea of evaluating the progeny at age 2
yr. before considering breeding either the sire or dam again. This was
in the day of trying to get breeders to xray breeding stock for hip
dysp
dy is always "planted" in the same
general area. My dogs are crated in my vehicle, for our rides, etc. so they
are not unused to being crated such as at a veterinary clinic, where this
would be necessary.
Regarding breeding bitches, I think that one would want to evaluate each
litt
Surprising as it may be, some people actually consider me an expert in my
area of specialty :) Because of this and because of all the "experts" I have
known and know, this title doesn't mean all that much to me and I no longer
think whatever comes out of the mouth of "experts" is the gospel truth.
I think before we justify breeding every cycle based on science, we must
remember that our dogs are not in a natural setting. They are our pets
first and foremost. In a natural setting, just a few puppies would survive,
not all. If they were coming fast some may not even get out of the sac and
I had a rather surprising discussion with a reproduction specialist
within the last year - and she said the same thing Libby has said -
The LARGE breeding kennel she worked with has found that breeding the
dogs on their First cycle and Every cycle thereafter, until they fail to
produce
I think Jane Johnson (I'm bad with names) has like 2 or 3 virtual breeding
links/sites. I'm not sure if all the sites still work. She also moderates
a yahoo groups specific to breeding.
If you really want to get a glimpse of breeding berners and the amount of
work involved i
Hi all,
I found this website and thought it was interesting.
It takes you through a virtual breeding and the
complications that can come up. It also links to a
page with information on breeding in general.
http://www.bluegrace.com/virtualbreeding.html
Cheers,
Andrea Stefanac
& Chance CD
Just read the article on Berners in Dog Fancy (GREAT ad, by the way,
guys. Truly nice.) and have a question for the breeders out there:
I get concerned when I see ads for Berners that say "puppies available".
I'm not quite so concerned when I see breeders' ads that say "Is the
Berner the right
rd to "have it all" - so, prioritizing is a necessity. Priorities can
shift as a breeding program progresses
- but constantly shifting priorities just to make your current dog
"breedable" is a shaky approach.
***It was that "goal" word that caught my eye. Here's my
Have been on vacation, just getting caught up. Had to
chime in on the breeding topic - pros/cons of
linebreeding, inbreeding, outcrossing. There have
already been some excellent responses on this topic.
I just want to add - there is no "safe formula" for
breeding! The more you know
Sorry, this last paragragh was cut-off:
re: In breeding, line breeding, and out crossing...
All in all, each has their place and the breed probably benefits most from
having the use of all three...in appropriate measure. I wouldn't want to
see all litters in-bred or tightly line-bred.
In a message dated 3/25/2003 11:14:52 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> I understand the definitions of in-breeding, line-breeding and
out-crossing,
> what I don't know are the pros and cons of each. Any information you can
> provide would be helpful.
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Hi All,
I'm hoping you all can help me with this. I understand the definitions of
in-breeding, line-breeding and out-crossing, what I don't know are the pros and cons
of each. Any information you can provide would be helpful. Thanks
Susan
Dear Members,
Sorry if this in in here twice. I'm just learning about this list.
My name is Kristin. I live in Ontario, Canada. I have been
researching Bernese Mountain Dogs and their breeders for about 6 months
because I would like to start breeding the Bernese myself. I would
At the beginning of the month, I attended the W Penn Symposium on Genetics
("Small Animal Medical Genetics for the Veterinarian and Breeder"-- N.Mathew
Ellinwood, DVM, Ph.D.,Comparative Medical Genetics at U Penn) and Breeding
("Demystifying Canine Ovulation Timing" - Melissa
Hi Michaela,
Wasn't me! I know of dogs that have been close bred and prolific, a lot
has to do with the tendency within the lines that are being concentrated.
It is generally thought that to continue to inbreed will affect fertility.
Rose T.
Hi Sherri,
Here are a couple of pages that might be of help. The second link explains
with horse pedigrees both Wright's equation and Hardiman's method.
CompuPed has an inbreeding calculator built into it's software, the first
link has a link to compuPed.
http://www.netpets.org/dogs/healthspa/dem
In a message dated 3/17/2003 9:11:56 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> But it wasn't a relationship between line-breeding and
> litter size, rather that smaller litter size is one of the things
associated
> with in-breeding depression, along with red
Michaela,
It was probably I. But it wasn't a relationship between line-breeding and
litter size, rather that smaller litter size is one of the things associated
with in-breeding depression, along with reduced fertility, shorter life
span, increase in cancers, immune system problems, etc.
My breeder and I were chatting on the week-end and, amongst many things,
came to the topic "line breeding and litter size".
I recall someone posting that the closer the line (in)breeding the smaller
the size of the litter. I just can't remember who posted it ( Ruth? Rose?
Susan?)
Hi Cheryl,
I'm sure your friend has had enough criticism but in truth accidents can
and do happen.
Right now she needs to consider finding homes for the puppies and because
of the closeness of the breeding she should consider early spay/neuter.
There is no reason the puppies will be any diff
My beloved Akita, Rohan, crossed the bridge at an average age for his breed.
He was the result of a full brother-sister breeding (dad ate through an
airline crate, escaped the locked garage the airline crate was in by
breaking the glass and jumping through a tiny window six feet up, went over
two
A co-worker has had an accidental breeding between her
5 year old German Shepard bitch and a full brother to
the bitch. To make matters worse she was unaware that
her bitch was pregnant until it was to late. She knows
this is totally un-responsible and is absolutely
appalled at herself for letting
Hi Julia and All,
I have two very good pieces by Jude Simonds on the Articles & Info Section
of my Longlease Site re. using your dog as a stud! I am sure your friend
would find these very informative too!
All love,
Jean, Sunny, Sim, Barney and the Gang
X
http://www.angelf
about breeding, and I would love to send her
the post you recently wrote about deciding to breed your male. It was a
great post, with lots of information that would help her see why she
shouldn't breed. If you're OK with me forwarding it to someone else,
please send me the post at [EMAIL PRO
six month old puppy, you need
to consult with her breeder as to her promise. Showing is expensive and
breeding even more so and fraught with responsibilities. You might like to
show for fun and spay her afterwards and then work towards other official
titles.
Most breeders spay their bitches as soon
- Original Message -
From: "Sharon Montville" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> The downside
> to early spaying is I believe some on this list have
> had bitches with urinary incontinence as a result.
> Most of the female pups I have placed were spayed by
> age 6 months and have not had this problem.
- is another risk in an intact
bitch.
Also, bitches who are kept intact but not bred, often
end up with "unhealthy" uteruses. If you only looked
at a bitch as a uterus (not as the whole dog) there is
a strong case for breeding her close to every cycle.
I am NOT advocating that as I do not
> Obviously, procreation is important for the survival of the breed.
There's procreation...and there's procreation.
The future of Bernese...their health, longevity, temperament, and looks...
depend on *selective* procreation. It's the breeding choices we make today
that will def
higher risk of some cancers than other breeds, one in five
berners developing cancer during their life.
Based on her excellent health history, her father's awards and beautiful
markings, we were considering showing/breeding her but our main interest
is having her live a long healthy life.
Obvi
Rose,
Excellent point about dogs in homes w/ smokers! We know how deadly second
hand smoke is to other adults in the house/car and especially to children
(even when the smoking does not occur while the child is in the room.) I
wouldnt be at all surprised to see the dogs of smokers similarly affe
hy on that one.
Unfortunately, breeding to clear bad traits is not so easy . I bred my
bitch who had OFA excellent hips, clear elbows to a stud who also had that
and their siblings were all good and excellent, parents, aunts and uncles,
cousins, etc.I actually figured it back 5 generations
-
Hi Vilma,
"It will be a very long time before we have an accurate "cancer screening
test, a genetic marker for tumor(s) in Berners known to have a strong
hereditary influence (such as mast cell and malignant histiocytosis) and
that
little evidence points to specific envirnmental causes (how
Hi Ruth,
Now adding another breed? That's a different story. That could change the
genetics significantly.
And not necessarily for the better! Might add in some more problems...
Merry Christmas, turkey's cooking:-)
Rose Tierney
Mark asks what if we allow breeding of mis marked and blue eyed dogs to
expand the gene pool, (I hope I am paraphrasing accurately). He asks if this
would allow for a lower incidence of cancer and hip dysplasia. This
interested me, not because of allowing the breeding issue, but because I had
much more information on both the genetic
and environmental influences, that only two things will help decrease the
incidence of early onset cancer: thorough knowledge of the health of all
relatives of the proposed breeding pair .and the simple "test of time"
-- waiting unti
he
success and failure in health of combinations of dogs I produce. In
foresight garnered from others' experiences and in hindsight of my own
experiences, I can discern what familial combinations and environments seem
to work well together and which ones are disastrous. Hopefully I can make
bett
uld not consider them.
So "allowing" dogs with these traits to be used for breeding isn't an issue.
They ARE allowed. And to some degree they are likely used. To my knowledge
there's no collection of data to analyze to determine how breedings of
mismarked dogs pan out with rega
This idea is just a thought and please do not flame me for suggesting it.
What if and I do mean what if: we expanded on what was allowed in the breed
to have a larger pool of dogs to breed from. What if - mismarked dogs were
acceptable and dogs with blue eyes were acceptable? What if we allowed
Hi,
In the large breeds the bitch is too young at nine months to carry a
litter, she is still needing her body reserves for her own growth and
development. Her growth plates haven't even closed at that tender age. I
have heard of people in small breeds using their bitches earlier than two
years
In a message dated 12/12/2002 10:59:07 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> I would love to hear some feedback on the topic of breeding prior to the
bitch
> being physically mature! Like in her first heat at 9 months. I tried to
explain
> what I've read to
>>I would love to hear some feedback on the topic of breeding prior to the
bitch being physically mature!
Ed and Denise,
A dam cannot be fed all the calcium she needs to feed her pups. Her body is
not designed to assimilate that much calcium from an outside source in such
a short ti
Hi AllI would love to hear some feedback on the topic of breeding prior to the bitch being physically mature! Like in her first heat at 9 months. I tried to explain what ive read to someone but i dont believe i made my point! Could i get some feedback that i can relay to others on this topic
ners
simply not xraying at all ... Right??
--Tracey
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Mary-Ann Bowman
Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 6:52 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: Bernese Mountain Dog Mailing List
Subject: Re: Swedish Breeding Code o
Your opinion is not at all offensive :) I believe that if a breeding code of
ethics required a certain type of food or exercise, then one might suggest
that lowered incidence of HD and ED was perhaps related to those things.
However, my understanding is that the breeding code of ethics simply
> You indicate that the incident of HD and
> ED has been greatly reduced since the implementation of the breeding code
of
> ethics. This code of ethics, as I understand it, has to do with selective
> breeding based on status of hips and elbows. By doing this, HD and ED have
> been
Thank you so much for sharing your experiences and information -- there is
so much to learn!! I would like to link something that you have said to a
recent discussion on the berner-l. You indicate that the incident of HD and
ED has been greatly reduced since the implementation of the breeding code
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Hi Karen,
I can fully understand your worries about breeding - but as the old saying
goes, if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen :-) As you know,
every whelping carries with it the possibility of disaster for the bitch, and
for the whelps. And even a bitch who has a great r
Karen,
The 2000 BMDCA Health Survey collected all of this information, we have the
summary of the reproductive issues here:
http://www.bmdca.org/pages/health_report.htm
If there are other specific questions that I can answer, give me some time,
it's a busy season, but the survey should be a
I have had two experiences with whelping litters of Bernese, neither one of which was
a good one. The first was my own litter, where my bitch was in labor for hours (two
trips to the vet's and him telling me to give her time) and in the end, because she
wouldn't dialate, ended up in a c-section
Sharon's response (i.e., the importance of looking at the health picture
painted by the broader family tree) to Lisa's question offers a great
opening for me to join in stressing how important it is for PET OWNERS to
radiograph/X-ray hips and elbows (at a minimum) and test (where possible)
their do
ed to a male who was producing
average elbows. What did I get? A litter of nine who have now all been
x-rayed for either GDC or OFA. One of the nine did not clear hips (bummer
but 89% clear) but every dog in the litter cleared elbows -- 100% clear
elbows.
The "compromise" (if breeding to a male
Sharon ... BRAVO TO YOU!! This is exactly what I was trying to do in the
Buhund club -- it's not JUST getting the dog/bitch cleared ... It's
knowing it's littermates, and it's parent's littermates ... And how can
YOU the breeder know what sort of breeding program you hav
On Tue, 12 Nov 2002 06:52:48 -0800 (PST) Sharon Montville
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I have used an HD fair bitch for breeding and I will
> let you know in a month, the final results on her
> offspring. So far, out of the 4 pups she produced,
> one was OFA Prelim Good at
Lisa asked:
"I am interested in the opinions of others on the
breeding of dogs or bitches that are HD Fair. I do
not think such dogs should be a part of a breeding
program and wish to hear how others feel about this."
Hi Lisa,
Great question.
I have used an HD fair bitch for bree
Fair means clear. Fair hips get a number. I feel to abolish a dog from a
breeding program soley based on fair hips would not be a decision I would
make. Let us think about a champion bitch with clear elbows, great
temperament, breed type and strong pedigreewould you really not breed
her
Lisa,
The current BMDCA Code Of Ethics, section "C" states,
C. "Ideally x-ray for evidence of hip dysplasia at age of two years or
older, treating mild cases as they would any other fault, and excluding from
breeding programs dogs with more severe evidence of hip dysplasia."
I am interested in the opinions of others on the breeding of dogs or bitches
that are HD Fair. I do not think such dogs should be a part of a breeding
program and wish to hear how others feel about this.
Specifically, Berners, of course.
Lisa Allen
I thought my Berner Daphane (1983-1993) was
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