Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

> Matthew wrote: > OK, for the first time, I'm going to put a rule on a thread. > Isn't it kind of hypocritical to post that fact to this thread? ~| Protect Your PC from viruses, hackers, spam and more. Buy PC-cillin with Easy I

RE: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

OK, for the first time, I'm going to put a rule on a thread. Matthew Small -Original Message- From: Gruss Gott [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 9:13 AM To: CF-Community Subject: Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina > Dana wrote: >

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

> Dana wrote: > I tend to agree that at this point no minds will be changed I will change my mind this very second and I'll give you the exact criteria to do it; it requires no studies or complicated analysis, just a simple supposition on your part. So, for both you and Larry: Provide a reason(s

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

I tend to agree that at this point no minds will be changed, but I will answer this one last scenario by saying that it is the exception that proves the rule. In general, I as an employer have no reason to maintain someone on my payroll if they are not earning their salary. Unless of course it's a

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

to not have to go through the > process of setting up a rule against it. Those things don't work half the > time anyway. > > > Matthew Small > > -Original Message- > From: Gruss Gott [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 9:34 A

RE: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

inst it. Those things don't work half the time anyway. Matthew Small -Original Message- From: Gruss Gott [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 9:34 AM To: CF-Community Subject: Re: also circulating the email listsre katrina > Larry wrote: > I guess t

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

> Larry wrote: > I guess that has nothing to do with the fact that the unemployment > rate for those parts of germany are 2 or 3 times the national average > for Germany as a whole. > They discuss that in the piece and talk about how those people aren't leaving gov't assistance and entering the ma

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

I guess that has nothing to do with the fact that the unemployment rate for those parts of germany are 2 or 3 times the national average for Germany as a whole. larry On 10/5/05, Gruss Gott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Dana wrote: > > determination. You're right Gruss. We live in a communist so

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

> Sam wrote: > As long as they're not engaging me the whole list is happy :) > Ya know ... speaking of that ... I'm surprised you haven't jumped in with gusto. Isn't this a *classic* liberal vs. conservative issue? Minimum wage vs. market forces? You'd better be careful or people will start thi

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

> Dana wrote: > determination. You're right Gruss. We live in a communist society ;) If I > could send you back to pre-Industrial England, I would. > You're hyperbolizing my point into a caricature. An interesting thing happened though. I was catching up on my NPR and yesterday's Marketplace had

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

> Cameron wrote: > I love lamp. > > -Brick > I love ... cake. - Eric Foreman ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Me

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

I love lamp. -Brick On 10/4/05, Ken Ketsdever <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Where's the list mom? If there are only two in a thread for more than 3 > days then it's a personal conversation, or you're not going to change > the other person's mind. Move on. ;>) ~~~

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

there will be no end as the man's mind is made up. I've tried confusing him with the facts and it's just not happening. Give the man points for determination. You're right Gruss. We live in a communist society ;) If I could send you back to pre-Industrial England, I would. Dana On 10/4/05, Sam <

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

I say let them fight it out to the end. As long as they're not engaging me the whole list is happy :) On 10/4/05, Ken Ketsdever wrote: > Where's the list mom? If there are only two in a thread for more than 3 > days then it's a personal conversation, or you're not going to change > the other pe

RE: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

04, 2005 2:56 PM To: CF-Community Subject: Re: also circulating the email listsre katrina Gruss. Let me explain something to you. If the people were not earning their salary, they would not have a job, or would not keep it long. You keep repeating that they are not they are not they are no

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

> Dana wrote: > Gruss. Let me explain something to you. If the people were not earning their > salary, they would not have a job No. You only earn your pay when you and payer agree on a price in exchange for a product. The payer considers her BATNA and the price/product you're offering. If she

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

Gruss. Let me explain something to you. If the people were not earning their salary, they would not have a job, or would not keep it long. You keep repeating that they are not they are not they are not. It's old. So is your insistence that it's a subsidy. The fact that you keep saying this does not

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

> Dana wrote: > Gruss. You're a theory X manager aren't you. I can tell. > Just trying figure out where you stand. You're very worried about taking care of people, but it doesn't seem as if you've fully considered the ramifications of paying people what they've not earned. BTW - Worrying about

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

Gruss. You're a theory X manager aren't you. I can tell. Dana On 10/4/05, Gruss Gott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Dana wrote: > > since you are determined to > > persist in this wrong headedness... > > > > :-D > > Well, it's been my experience that most humans don't like change and > will re

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

> Dana wrote: > since you are determined to > persist in this wrong headedness... > :-D Well, it's been my experience that most humans don't like change and will resist it to the last. Also that when faced with the consequences of their own bad choices, they will ask for a subsidy before they'l

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

Gruss, it's not a subsidy. You are the one being emotional, you are acting like a bleeding heart liberal worried about everyone's carrer path ;) I think I should have just let you carry on, since you are determined to persist in this wrong headedness... Dana On 10/4/05, Gruss Gott <[EMAIL PROTE

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

> Dana wrote: > I really don't have time to argue this point, it's just not well thought > thorough. > I agree, you haven't thought it through that well. You are making emotional decisions and that's always a bad idea. Again, this country long ago decided that the most moral economic system was

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

And above and beyond all this you are still looking at it as career planning. Look. You cannot do career planning for other people, even if you are right, which I do not believe. You call yourself a conservative? There will always be minimum wage jobs. It would be nice if people moved forward from

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

> Dana wrote: > it is impossible to continue this conversation because you refuse to examine > the following assumptions: > - minimum wage is a subsidy > - that it is a trap akin to welfare > - that people work for the minimum wage due to ignorance. > That's not true, I'm perfectly willing to con

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

it is impossible to continue this conversation because you refuse to examine the following assumptions: - minimum wage is a subsidy - that it is a trap akin to welfare - that people work for the minimum wage due to ignorance. Dana On 10/4/05, Gruss Gott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Matthew

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

> Matthew wrote: > Gruss, you're hopelessly in love with your argument to the point where you > don't know what it says. > I agree with the former, but not the latter since what I'm saying is quite simple. If we're trying to solve the problem of "working poor", there are essentially 2 proposals i

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

Of couse aside from the ethical and legal problems of this proposal, why not just look at what's already in place? The data is available from the Census Bureau's economic census. It would be much cheaper, and allow for a much greater degree of control. What you propose is riddled with problems in

RE: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

Gruss, you're hopelessly in love with your argument to the point where you don't know what it says. Matt Small -Original Message- From: Gruss Gott [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 9:39 AM To: CF-Community Subject: Re: also circulating the email l

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

> Matthew wrote: > Gruss... you should take a break. Your arguments have gone way off the deep > end into the Twilight Zone. :-) > Huh? Could be. I guess the point I was trying to make was that many "chronic" minimum wage earners don't understand how to increase their value in the marketplace a

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

I was beginning to think I was the only one that noticed he does that. :) On 10/3/05, Matthew Small <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Gruss... you should take a break. Your arguments have gone way off the deep > end into the Twilight Zone. :-) > ~~~

RE: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

Gruss... you should take a break. Your arguments have gone way off the deep end into the Twilight Zone. :-) Matthew Small -Original Message- From: Gruss Gott [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 3:38 PM To: CF-Community Subject: Re: also circulating the email lists

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

> Larry wrote: > I think the differences her is that you're raising purely > philosophical points, I'm suggesting more empirical ones. In other > words, its testable and the data is available, why not see what the > results say. > Here's what I'd propose. Find a group that makes minimum wage and

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

I think the differences her is that you're raising purely philosophical points, I'm suggesting more empirical ones. In other words, its testable and the data is available, why not see what the results say. larry On 10/3/05, Gruss Gott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Larry wrote: > > Not a valid co

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

Adam Smith wrote in the eighteenth century. for, say, environmental concerns, is perfectly fine; As Adam Smith > says, "waste impoverishes us all." > > -- > In the long run we are all dead. - John Maynard Keynes ~| Find out how

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

> Larry wrote: > Not a valid comparison. Single case design studies are like group > experimental designs turned on their head This is an issue of human nature or we wouldn't be talking about it. Everyone would've made the right decisions when they were young and would have the drive and motivati

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

Are we? Economic behavior is observable behavior. Its a relatively simple study, compare those locations with and without a living wage law both before and after implementation of that law for a fixed period of time. That should allow for a determination of the actual economic impact of these laws.

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

Not a valid comparison. Single case design studies are like group experimental designs turned on their head - instead of one observation from many cases, single case design studies use many observations over time on a single case. Moreover the USSR was so fundimentally different than what currentl

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

> Larry wrote: > Unfortunately its only one promising study from one location, and so > suffers from the faults of any case study. There is no study that disproves human nature. In this case we're referencing the following qualities: 1.) Desire to learn. 2.) Desire to change. 3.) Profit motive.

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

True, Albuqueruque is heavily oriented to tourism and conventions. So fact that these people are primarily in the hospitality industry may not be true elsewhere. Dana On 10/3/05, Larry C. Lyons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Even more important I think is his comments regarding Table 7: > -- > T

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

Just add in "who has raised a lot of money for me." and you may have it exactly. larry On 10/3/05, Marlon Moyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 10/3/05, Larry C. Lyons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > simply anectdotes on par with those stories that begin "A cousin of my > > friend's brother in law

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

> Larry wrote: > Single cases don't make a trend. Let's try this case: USSR. If you pay someone more than they're worth, but enough to keep them from making a change, the majority won't change. That's basic human nature, and the point has been solved decades ago. It goes like this: (A.) One th

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

Even more important I think is his comments regarding Table 7: -- Total Costs Relative to Sales of Albuquerque Firms In Table 7, we present data showing the estimated total cost increase of $40 million broken down as a proportion of the total sales of the covered Albuquerque firms. In the first ro

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

On 10/3/05, Larry C. Lyons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > simply anectdotes on par with those stories that begin "A cousin of my > friend's brother in law..." > I other words, Bush's nomination strategy so far. ~| Find out how CFTi

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

found a study that sheds some actual light. This guy thinks that cost increases will be mostl in the restaurant industry and will amount to about 2%. "Overall then, raising prices and productivity by a relatively small amount are likely to be the predominant means through which most affected firms

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

Single cases don't make a trend Gruss. Unless you can show that those particular success stories are common - ie find some fairly hard stats about welfare reform that strongly support your points, they are simply anectdotes on par with those stories that begin "A cousin of my friend's brother in la

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

Ah, you're right. Let's go back to paying everyone fifty cents an hour. As long as it doesn't affect those executive bonuses. On 10/3/05, Gruss Gott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Dana wrote: > > Hehe. You have this biological urge to have the last word, don't you. Of > > course they earn it, or

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

> Dana wrote: > Hehe. You have this biological urge to have the last word, don't you. Of > course they earn it, or they would be fired. Nuff said. > Nah, I was just messin' with ya for the implicit humor. As to the earned part, some people call forcing somebody to pay a wage the market doesn't su

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

Hehe. You have this biological urge to have the last word, don't you. Of course they earn it, or they would be fired. Nuff said. Dana On 10/3/05, Gruss Gott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Dana wrote: > > some money is always better than no money, Gruss ;) Talk to you later. > > > > Best way to

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

> Dana wrote: > some money is always better than no money, Gruss ;) Talk to you later. > Best way to get it, is to learn to earn it! ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http:/

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

some money is always better than no money, Gruss ;) Talk to you later. Dana On 10/3/05, Gruss Gott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Dana wrote: > > To repeat my point - we have a minimum wage, get over it. It may as well > be > > realistic. > > > > It's been a great debate and I'll appreciate th

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

> Dana wrote: > To repeat my point - we have a minimum wage, get over it. It may as well be > realistic. > It's been a great debate and I'll appreciate the updates. While I understand there's a MW, it's not a good solution these days. Maybe even as short as 10 years ago it was, but now that the

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

Gruss, your mind is obviously closed on this topic, so I am not going to argue the point with you any more. If I get a chance sometime this week I'll look up who it is that is still paying the minimum wage around here. I'll also let you know whether the local measure passes. As of this weekend it w

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

> Dana wrote: > I don't regard the minimum wage as being an enterprise. And since the people > are working for the wage, they are earning it. The fact is, governments give > subsidies, not businesses. A wage that is not paid due to market forces in not earned and businesses are not paying the wage

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

I don't regard the minimum wage as being an enterprise. And since the people are working for the wage, they are earning it. The fact is, governments give subsidies, not businesses. Your use of emotionally-charged buzzwords rivals the master's. Now, when FEMA awards a contract for unneeded housing

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

> Dana wrote: > What I am telling you is that it won't ever be done right in any incarnation > of our current educational system. > You may have been talking about that one post... I am talking about the > absence of any sensible argument why not, from you or anyone else. Between > your indignati

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

What I am telling you is that it won't ever be done right in any incarnation of our current educational system. You may have been talking about that one post... I am talking about the absence of any sensible argument why not, from you or anyone else. Between your indignation over "bashing corporat

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

> Dana wrote: > yes you did, scroll up ;) No, silly, I didn't mean *ever*, I just meant in that one post. Jeez. That took *enough* restraint. > Also, education didn't have squat to do with the Industrial Revolution, > which is generally credited to the concept of the division of labor. True,

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

Gruss, on Sept 26 you said: In short, minimum wage = communism. BTW, I wonder what happened to the USSR's multiplier effect? They should all be billionaires. Dana On 9/30/05, Gruss Gott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Dana wrote: > > Education apparently didn't help Isaac's mother, who did hav

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

yes you did, scroll up ;) Also, education didn't have squat to do with the Industrial Revolution, which is generally credited to the concept of the division of labor. There may be some fantasy world in which government schools could be made to solve all our problems. But I don't believe in it. I

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

> Dana wrote: > Education apparently didn't help Isaac's mother, who did have a high I didn't say we should use old education, but new infrastructure. The same type of solution we used to great success in transforming from an agrarian economy to an industrial economy. (that was education, electr

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

I don't have time to defend straw men today, sorry. Education apparently didn't help Isaac's mother, who did have a high school diploma. Sure, having that many kids with an abusive man was a bad choice, and what would you suggest her high school do to prevent it? Most likely she learned at home tha

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

> Dana wrote: > I really don't think knowledge is the issue. It's time. Remember Isaac's > mother? If you're making thirty-five or fifty cents an hour net, meaning > that it takes sixty hours a week just to keep your kids in diapers, you may > not feel that college is worth the time away from your

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

yes, because they need a second job to acquire housing in most areas of the US. If they had plenty of time to think about a career path in high school, why are you proposing federal intervention is schools? (shudder). >Raising the minimum wage does not create wealth; it just circumvents >market f

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

> Dana wrote: > no ;) bandwidth was meant to be a measure of energy and available time, not > IQ ;) So, a person working a MW job somehow loses more of their day than non-MW workers? Also, as GS/HS students shouldn't they have had plenty of time to think about a career? > good thing we aren't t

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

Yes, I would think fine dining restaurants would get more business, as there is a negative correlation between smiking and dining. If you notice the numbers coming out, let me know. I am kinda interested. Dana On 9/30/05, Deanna Schneider <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > That's one of the options t

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

That's one of the options they're looking at now (exemptions based on 80% alchohol sales). The initial ban (which is about 5 years old) was on 50% alcohol sales. So, bars weren't affected, but restaurants were. The economic impact study results are in yet. My neighbor, who owns one bar and manages

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

so there is definitely an economic impact? We didn't see one here, but that may be a matter of geography. If you drive out of town, in most directions you wind up in an indian reservation, with a casino but little else. Also, they exempted establishments that make more than a certain amount of thei

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

I'm not a smoker, so all my opinions are biased. There's great contention here about the smoking ban. It's come back up for vote once already (in a measure to appeal the ban which narrowly lost). It seems that those hardest hit by the ban are the little neighborhood working-class joints. The more u

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

here's the letter i was talking about... I saw it in print. The local weekly finally updated its website. http://www.alibi.com/editorial/section_display.php?di=2005-09-29&scn=news#12879 Letters [image: prev] [image:

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

that explains that then. Just wondered as the governor is now jumping on the bandwagon, though with lower numbers from what I gather. Other question out of curiosity, how is the local smoking ban working out? And do you personally smoke? We had one a couple of years back and I'm loving it, but I'm

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

no ;) bandwidth was meant to be a measure of energy and available time, not IQ ;) good thing we aren't talking about IQ, or I'd start to wonder about someone who can't see that more money in the economy=a good thing, assuming inflation is not currently an issue, which it is not. Dana On 9/29/05

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

There was specific language that stated that the state law supercedes all local laws. The local smoking ban passed. The state smoking ban is still in limbo. On 9/27/05, Dana <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Pausing between tasks here. I am not really sure why the state law > overrides > the local o

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

> Dana wrote: > I guess I think that your idea is wrong and patronizing because it isn't > that they don't *know* there are better jobs, they simply don't have the > bandwidth to go after them. Did you just say I was patronizing for saying some people lack sophisticated career planning skills an

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

true for most grad students, minimum wage would be an net increase in income. larry On 9/29/05, Dana <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > those are all valid concerns, however, I don't think that an artificially > low and dropping minimum wage is a solution to them. > > Dana > > On 9/29/05, Gruss Gott

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

that may qualify as the no duh quote of the week Dana .But a growing budget deficit and other macroeconomic concerns kept it out of the top spot, according to the report. ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion He

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

Maybe you've written of the US too soon. http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/29/business/worldbusiness/29compete.html The United States remains at the cutting edge of technology, the report said, citing its "pipeline of innovation second to none in the world." ... You'll like this next part But a

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

aren't you the same guy who was just saying that you didn't want the federal government to help you? I agree with that assessment by the way, I don't want to to help me anything either, much less try to change my value system. I guess I think that your idea is wrong and patronizing because it isn

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

> Dana wrote: > hehe educating each person that they are a business, hehe, Gruss the schools > aren't even managing to teach people to read. I'm not missing that point I just think you don't throw up hands and say, "well, it's tough so let's just do the easy (and wrong) thing." You're right, it

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

hehe educating each person that they are a business, hehe, Gruss the schools aren't even managing to teach people to read. I still think that you are missing the point. If they have a minimum wage job and a family to feed, they have another job to get to, and no time to look. I do however agree w

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

> Dana wrote: > those are all valid concerns, however, I don't think that an artificially > low and dropping minimum wage is a solution to them. > Correct, but I've previously listed my guess at the solution which is basically educating each person that they are a business and that they need to wa

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

those are all valid concerns, however, I don't think that an artificially low and dropping minimum wage is a solution to them. Dana On 9/29/05, Gruss Gott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Dana wrote: > > I find your outrage rather amusing. > > Heh, I do too sometimes, like now. But here's the de

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

> Dana wrote: > I find your outrage rather amusing. Heh, I do too sometimes, like now. But here's the deal: I'm scared. I see American trends moving in the wrong direction: 1.) Top foreign college grads are moving back home to work. 2.) Top students are staying home to be educated and work. 3.

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

odds are equilibrium is further up the cost curve, ayup. Personally, I can live with that, within reason. You act as if the old fart who watches the door at Wal-Mart is the guardian of the economy. What about the price of gas, you don't think that has a lot more to do with inflation? This is not a

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

> Dana wrote: > But I am thinking that big public corporations are doing most of the > minimum wage hiring I would doubt that, but even so who do you think pays for that? You speak as if corporations are just money trees and all we have to do is shake the branchs a bit more. They want a profit a

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

wildly oversimplified, yes. But speaking as a small business owner I don't know that I'd be hiring at the minimum wage anyway, even for clerical help. I'd be more likely to look for skills and pay for them. Am I typical? not sure. But I am thinking that big public corporations are doing most of the

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

On 9/28/05, Dana <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > it's a reasonable argument. However #2 is most likely to be chosen by a > small business, #3 by a large manufacturing business. I guess my point is > that #3 happens anyway. Concern over #2 could be answered with an exemption > for very small businesses

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

it's a reasonable argument. However #2 is most likely to be chosen by a small business, #3 by a large manufacturing business. I guess my point is that #3 happens anyway. Concern over #2 could be answered with an exemption for very small businesses (though I don't think this particular measure has o

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

> However, as far as I know, hiring someone to be your full-time gardener > without asking his immigration status is illegal, but paying him twenty > bucks to cut your grass is not. I guess my point was that given a living wage requirement and a stricter legal worker program, many of those illega

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

not sure about this either. Just to cloud the issue further, as someone who has lived in a heavily Mexican neighborhood in Albuquerque, it seems to me that many of the guys with Chihuahua license plates seemed to be self-employed. However, I did not enquire as to anyone's immigration status and dri

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

On 9/28/05, Matthew Small <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Now about illegal aliens... > They're paid "under the table" and for lower than minimum wage. This > supports my whole premise. As for the Mexican illegal that is my neighbor's gardener... If he were forced to pay a "Living Wage" to him and o

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

um. I am too busy to do this discussion justice, I really am, already robbing Peter to pay Paul in time management today. I was going to post the letter that I was talking about from todays Alibi, but the website is not updated yet. He does make a couple very key points. However, I do not think ab

RE: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

Looking at this argument: "This is the exact same argument as the minimum wage: pay people a wage they didn't earn because they can't compete." Makes me think you didn't read what I wrote. Question: WHY can't companies compete here in the US? Answer: Because it costs too much to pay our worke

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

Gruss, you are still not in economics here. What you say is true in terms of personal finance and career planning. Of course. However, as long as there is a McDonald's, people will work there and the question is, how much should they be paid? The fact that they may individually all be better off wo

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

> Matthew wrote: > Whether or not job loss is > inevitable depends on how our government reacts to the outside economies. > I'm a protectionist, you're a free trader. We disagree, no arguing that. > Someone else jump in and end our pain! ~~

RE: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

ernment reacts to the outside economies. I'm a protectionist, you're a free trader. We disagree, no arguing that. Matthew Small -Original Message- From: Gruss Gott [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 3:37 PM To: CF-Community Subject: Re: also circula

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

> Matthew wrote: > Sure, there are some higher-paid jobs, but there are far fewer > higher-paid jobs than there are lower-paid jobs - and that's basic > economics, wouldn't you agree? No, in fact that's why the US was able to absorb the millions of women that joined the workforce in the 60s, 70s,

RE: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

-Community Subject: RE: also circulating the email listsre katrina No, nothing like communism. I'm not talking about sharing the wealth, I'm talking about keeping it in the US as opposed to sharing it with the rest of the world. Think about a teeter totter with the US on one end, other

RE: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

s - and that's basic economics, wouldn't you agree? Matthew Small -Original Message- From: Gruss Gott [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 2:43 PM To: CF-Community Subject: Re: also circulating the email listsre katrina > Matthew wrote: > W

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

> Matthew wrote: > When you allow the jobs to leave, you weaken your country. > Ho boy. I'm about 180^ opposite of you on this on. >From my perspective all of these jobs need to leave because Americans need to do higher skilled work. By artificially protecting jobs and having a minimum wage you

Re: also circulating the email lists....re katrina

According to the Census Bureau poverty numbers always increases after a recession. I can't find the numbers now but I did post them here before, I think there was 10 million people entered the workforce over the last couple of years while the people in poverty only went up by 1.1 million. Manufactu

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