I'm a relatively new user of Clojure and thought I'd add my
perspective to the pile regarding what I would expect from a 1.0
release.
My biggest frustrations with Clojure as a newcomer were:
1. Setting it up so it was easy to use across projects
2. The API documentation
While the documentation
On Apr 17, 2009, at 11:40 PM, Stuart Sierra wrote:
On Apr 17, 11:23 pm, "Stephen C. Gilardi" wrote:
I suggest using a "-main" function for this purpose. Then with
(ns ... (:gen-class)) you can generate a static Java class with same
behavior.
And if the :gen-class clause renamed main would
On 18/04/2009, at 11:51 AM, mikel wrote:
>> It's not clear how to use the stuff in clojure-contrib, which
>> certainly seems like the 'standard library' of useful tools that
>> makes
>> clojure into something other than a lispy language using Java
>> libraries.
>
>
> This is a good point. Us
On Apr 17, 11:23 pm, "Stephen C. Gilardi" wrote:
> > I suggest using a "-main" function for this purpose. Then with
> > (ns ... (:gen-class)) you can generate a static Java class with same
> > behavior.
>
> And if the :gen-class clause renamed main would the main function for
> this namespace
On Apr 17, 2009, at 10:28 PM, Stuart Sierra wrote:
I suggest using a "-main" function for this purpose. Then with
(ns ... (:gen-class)) you can generate a static Java class with same
behavior.
And if the :gen-class clause renamed main would the main function for
this namespace be that name
2009/4/18 Laurent PETIT :
> [snip] at least Rich disagrees (and unanimity
> implies "all people", not even one let apart).
> And you can also count on me, Meikel Brandmeyer (author of VimClojure),
> maybe Paul Drummond (?) that pointed to python's decision to use Mercurial.
I have only used SVN m
On Apr 17, 9:21 am, Rich Hickey wrote:
> A library management system seems like a tall order for a language
> 1.0. It is certainly an interesting and useful pursuit, but given the
> variety of approaches and opinions therein, it seems a bit out in
> front of us.
Yes. I retract my request. :) B
Hi Rich,
Every decision is a balance and will have good and bad aspects, of course.
In the good aspects of releasing a 1.0 quickly, is the fact that (coupled
with Stu's book release) I can try to more succesfully promote clojure
internally in my company (Ah, these psychological issues ;-).
In th
2009/4/18 Stuart Sierra
>
> On Apr 17, 7:16 pm, "Stephen C. Gilardi" wrote:
> > I have a proposal for a standard way to make a namespace "executable"
> > and to invoke it as a program/script.
> ...
> > - add a key to the "ns" form to specify, as a symbol, the name of
> > a function to be ca
2009/4/18 Laurent PETIT
>
>
>
> Rich is the main maintainer of clojure source, just let him use the DVCS he
> wants. And really, it's not that difficult to checkout a working copy of
> svn, hack on it, and do a svn diff > mypatch.diff to send him when ready (so
> more complex management cases may
2009/4/18 Dan
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 4:29 PM, Laurent PETIT wrote:
>
>> I guess there's really no perfect solution here :-(
>>
>> The question is :
>>
>> do you prefer to have some clojure users united against subversion, or
>> divided by Rich not having chosen their preferred DVCS (Mercur
On Apr 17, 7:59 pm, Raoul Duke wrote:
> anybody have experience with / opinions / thoughts / feelings on
> skeletons (design patterns) for concurrency?
>
> e.g.http://camlp3l.inria.fr/eng.htm
Some of these might be useful in Clojure. Some already exist --
parallel map, for example.
-Stuart Sie
On Apr 17, 7:36 pm, "Dimiter \"malkia\" Stanev"
wrote:
> Is there any alternative (ClassLoader?) to store the .class files in a
> different compressed format?.NET can store lots of classes in one
> assembly? Is there something like that for JVM?
ClassLoaders can do almost anything, including loa
On Apr 17, 7:16 pm, "Stephen C. Gilardi" wrote:
> I have a proposal for a standard way to make a namespace "executable"
> and to invoke it as a program/script.
...
> - add a key to the "ns" form to specify, as a symbol, the name of
> a function to be called when the namespace is "invoked
Hi,
This indeed seems like an improvement to me, since from then there will be
no excuse to have namespaces doing time or resource consuming operations
(I'm thinking about those scripts that automatically load GUIs, ...) at load
(and even compile *ouch*) time.
* Concerning the name of the keyword
On Apr 17, 8:31 pm, Antony Blakey wrote:
> As a lurker, considering Clojure for a project, the thing that is
> giving me pause isn't 1.0 per se, but the combination of a good
> library mechanism and documentation. I have Stuart's book, and I agree
> in the strongest possible terms that it
As a lurker, considering Clojure for a project, the thing that is
giving me pause isn't 1.0 per se, but the combination of a good
library mechanism and documentation. I have Stuart's book, and I agree
in the strongest possible terms that it should be a book explicitly
about a stable Clojur
As with any decision, it will be impossible to please everyone. I
think the Git vs Subversion talk is way off topic at this point, but
to each his own.
Rich, I think it really depends on what *YOU* want Clojure to be. If
you want to take a Haskell like approach and "avoid success at all
costs"
On Apr 17, 2009, at 5:21 PM, Tom Faulhaber wrote:
> I'd also like to see a little more focus on the perl/python/ruby
> equivalence from a newbie perspective. That is, more clarity around
> startup, script execution (including having an equivalent to python's
> "if __name__ == '__main__':" constr
Excellent! Many thanks to you guys and Tom Faulhaber (the author of
pprint) - this feature has already helped me so much with debugging my
macro.
2009/4/18 Jeffrey Chu :
>
> It's supposed to - but I was too lazy to write a walker. Fortunately
> there's a contrib for it now and I've added that fe
hi,
anybody have experience with / opinions / thoughts / feelings on
skeletons (design patterns) for concurrency?
e.g. http://camlp3l.inria.fr/eng.htm
might the approach be useful even with STM?
thanks.
--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because yo
It's supposed to - but I was too lazy to write a walker. Fortunately
there's a contrib for it now and I've added that feature. Again, this
needs contrib so if it's not there it'll fallback on plain old
macroexpand.
- Jeff
On Apr 17, 2:22 pm, Paul Drummond wrote:
> Thanks guys - it's great that
I'm asking here question not directly related to Clojure, but related
to the JVM:
Is there any alternative (ClassLoader?) to store the .class files in a
different compressed format?.NET can store lots of classes in one
assembly? Is there something like that for JVM?
For example right now clojure
This is the standard behavior. Just place the cursor over any other
unexpanded forms in the expansion buffer and run the command again. It will
expand again in place.
On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 5:22 PM, Paul Drummond wrote:
>
> Thanks guys - it's great that this is in clojure-swank now as well! I
>
On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 4:29 PM, Laurent PETIT wrote:
> I guess there's really no perfect solution here :-(
>
> The question is :
>
> do you prefer to have some clojure users united against subversion, or
> divided by Rich not having chosen their preferred DVCS (Mercurial users vs
> Git users, not
My .02 on the version control issue:
All of them work. Some are easier to use than others. There are
successful projects that use just about all of them. It's personal
preference. Rich is going to be doing most the contributing, let him
choose the VCS.
Period.
On Apr 17, 4:29 pm, Laurent PETIT
2009/4/17 Tom Faulhaber :
> While I agree that "what is clojure.contrib?" is a pretty big issue, I
> think we could leave it a little fuzzy for a while longer. One thing
> we should probably do is do a real comparison of how we stack up
> against python's "batteries included" model and see how we
2009/4/17 Laurent PETIT :
> do you prefer to have some clojure users united against subversion, or
> divided by Rich not having chosen their preferred DVCS (Mercurial users vs
> Git users, not sure whether clojure needs those kinds of nonsense internal
> wars in the community )
I agree the la
Thanks guys - it's great that this is in clojure-swank now as well! I
simply updated and it works - no code changes required :)
It looks like slime-macroexpand-all doesn't do what I expected it to
do though. Is it just the same as the clojure macroexpand function?
I was hoping it would do a "re
Thanks for the very informative reply!
On Apr 17, 1:40 pm, Christophe Grand wrote:
> tmountain a écrit :
>
>
>
> > Hi guys. I'm in the process of learning Clojure and loving it so far.
> > I've been dabbling in Common Lisp for years, but Clojure has so many
> > nice features that it's rapidly be
Tom's 2 cents:
I think Clojure is basically ready to go to 1.0. I like the idea of
having a book about Clojure 1.0 go hand in hand with the release.
While I agree that the library management problem is too hard for a
1.0 release (and also largely separable), it would be nice to see the
software
On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 6:21 AM, Rich Hickey wrote:
> Overall, I'm getting feature requests (more change!) and not a strong
> drive for 1.0 stability. If you feel otherwise, please speak up.
> Otherwise, my conclusion is that 1.0 may be more important for not-yet-
> users wary of working from sou
Thanks for the tip. I've added it to swank-clojure (only if you have
clojure.contrib installed though, so don't forget to have that
around).
- Jeff
On Apr 17, 12:14 pm, David Nolen wrote:
> If you have the latest version of clojure.contrib you can do the following:
> Modify the namespace declar
I guess there's really no perfect solution here :-(
The question is :
do you prefer to have some clojure users united against subversion, or
divided by Rich not having chosen their preferred DVCS (Mercurial users vs
Git users, not sure whether clojure needs those kinds of nonsense internal
wars i
Rich says "Git is not going to happen any time soon, great as it may
be, given the current lack of infrastructure (google code) and tools
support."
I'm curious as to why github isn't a viable alternative to google
code? Now that it has issue tracking, I don't see the advantages of
choosing goog
On Apr 17, 10:00 am, Robert Luo wrote:
> the following code:
>
> (read-json-string (json-str {3 1}))
>
> results NumberFormatException, I think maybe it does not expect
> integer keys for a map.
That's correct. I was following the "pure" JSON spec at http://json.org/
which says that maps can
If you have the latest version of clojure.contrib you can do the following:
Modify the namespace declaration in swank-clojure/swank/commands/basic.clj
to look like the following:
(ns swank.commands.basic
(:refer-clojure :exclude [load-file])
(:use (swank util commands core)
(swank.util
On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 11:53 AM, Rich Hickey wrote:
[...]
>
> - Development process stability
>
> Currently all new work (fixes and enhancements) occurs in trunk.
> There's no way to get fixes without also getting enhancements. I think
> this is the major missing piece in offering stable number
On Apr 17, 8:21 am, Rich Hickey wrote:
> Thanks all for the feedback. One impression I get is that it seems the
> existing community is getting along ok on trunk, so perhaps we also
> need to consider those not yet using Clojure, possibly even because of
> a lack of 1.0.
>
> I joked about book
Rich,
A list of the things you know you want to add or change would be
useful to this discussion. For all we know, there could be a game-
changer on that list that would suggest holding off on 1.0.
Aside from that, I think you are right about the psychology of
language adoption and book-buying.
Up until now I have made do with a simple clojure repl in Emacs but as
I am playing around with macros I feel it's time to test drive
clojure-swank and it's fancy macro expansion features!
I have installed clojure-swank following the instructions on the wiki
and the installation seems to have wor
Thanks to all of you for the input. It sounds like most people are
comfortable with the current state of clojure. That is great to hear!
I know there has been a lot of talk to "1.0fy" clojure yesterday.
Going 1.0 will definitely help us make the jump (maybe others too?).
I understand 1.0 is onl
To me, major version numbers means no more nor less than a marker
pointing to a stable, consistent release that can be easily referred
to consistently by everyone. It doesn't mean that there can't be
major, breaking changes for 2.0 (or even 1.5, whatever). I don't even
care what features are in th
Problem solved! As you suggested I had an out of date version of
Clojure. I downloaded the 2008 revision on accident. Thank you for the
help.
Travis
On Apr 17, 1:30 pm, Konrad Hinsen wrote:
> On Apr 17, 2009, at 18:20, tmountain wrote:
>
> > Hi, I'm trying to build clojure-contrib and running i
tmountain a écrit :
> Hi guys. I'm in the process of learning Clojure and loving it so far.
> I've been dabbling in Common Lisp for years, but Clojure has so many
> nice features that it's rapidly becoming my language of choice.
> Recently, I've been trying to get my head wrapped around macros and
Wow, thanks for the guidance, Enlive is improving at a rapid clip! ;)
On Friday, April 17, 2009, Christophe Grand wrote:
>
> Updating to reflect last changes:
>
> (def snipgets
> (let [divs (select (html-resource "widget.html")
> [[:div (attr? :tiptree:widget)]])]
> (into {}
On Apr 17, 2009, at 18:20, tmountain wrote:
> Hi, I'm trying to build clojure-contrib and running into an issue. I
> checked out clojure-contrib as follows and attempted to build it on my
> machine. I get a compiler error when I run ant.
Which Clojure revision are you using, and which revision o
> Overall, I'm getting feature requests (more change!) and not a strong
> drive for 1.0 stability. If you feel otherwise, please speak up.
> Otherwise, my conclusion is that 1.0 may be more important for not-yet-
> users wary of working from source.
My thought was that I very much like that you d
Hi guys. I'm in the process of learning Clojure and loving it so far.
I've been dabbling in Common Lisp for years, but Clojure has so many
nice features that it's rapidly becoming my language of choice.
Recently, I've been trying to get my head wrapped around macros and
that an `or macro' would be
Hi, I'm trying to build clojure-contrib and running into an issue. I
checked out clojure-contrib as follows and attempted to build it on my
machine. I get a compiler error when I run ant.
svn checkout http://clojure-contrib.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/ clojure-
contrib-read-only
[java] java.la
I vote for 1.0 as soon as possible. Seems stable to me. I'm working on a
chat application and when we moved to fully lazy sequences, still none of my
code broke.
I vote no on making contrib the "Standard Library." The Java Standard
Library is large enough. I would like contrib to be easier to
On Apr 17, 9:21 am, Rich Hickey wrote:
*snip*
>Git is not going to happen any time soon, great as it may
> be, given the current lack of infrastructure (google code) and tools
> support. Is there some respect in which this impacts the core? It
> would seem dangerous to marry any single approach i
it was kind of annoying, at first, to have to type up the startup script
myself from the "getting started" wiki page (or cut-n-paste). Seemed like
it should have come with the download, but once I dedicated some time to it,
it was ok. Netbeans plugin, I think, was a good substitute when I just
wa
I would love to see 1.0, and the sooner the better. At Relevance we
are doing real work in Clojure today.
As for wish list I would love to see improvements to the development
process:
* move from svn to git
* move regression tests from contrib into clojure itself
But neither of these need n
On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 4:10 PM, Marko Kocić wrote:
>
> I have seen various scripts to start clojure in the net. Everyone
> seems to have its favourite, even contrib has one. Also, there are a
> lot of questions what is the "bestest" way to invoke clojure, how to
> start REPL, how to run script,
On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 9:21 AM, Rich Hickey wrote:
>
>
> As for tests, there are tests in:
>
>
> http://code.google.com/p/clojure-contrib/source/browse/#svn/trunk/src/clojure/contrib/test_clojure
>
> Anyone who wants more tests can contribute them.
>
I think what would be useful, though, is to
the following code:
(read-json-string (json-str {3 1}))
results NumberFormatException, I think maybe it does not expect
integer keys for a map.
--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Clojure" group.
To
Strangely enough, for me version 1.0 would mean the version of Clojure
described in the book "Programming Clojure" by Stuart Halloway.
It would be a version that I could download directly even though newer
versions would appear afterward so the book and the Clojure version
are consistent with one
a) Stability ? Looks pretty fine to me up to now...
b) Getting 1.0 out ? Absolutely needed to increase the level of
acceptance of Clojure. Future releases will have to clearly documented
as to what they fix,
what changes have been done to the language itself and what it may
break in user code.
I feel the urge to drop a couple more pennies into this thread.
Trunk should NOT be used for day-to-day development and
experimentation. There should be a branch for that.
Trunk should NEVER be broken. Comprehensive tests need to run and pass
on the development branch before those changes are me
One possible approach that just occurred to me waking up this morning is to
just do it. The very idea that now is a good time to ask the question is a
milestone. 1.0 marks the time that the question was asked as to what it
would take for there to be a 1l0! That was a typo, I meant 1.0, but why u
Thanks all for the feedback. One impression I get is that it seems the
existing community is getting along ok on trunk, so perhaps we also
need to consider those not yet using Clojure, possibly even because of
a lack of 1.0.
I joked about book authors, but I'd like to make it clear that I think
i
2009/4/16 Rich Hickey :
> What does 1.0 mean to you?
I just wanted to give some thoughts on what I think are the main
points coming from this discussion. It seems like most agree that
"Clojure the language" is ready for a 1.0 release (and all that comes
with it). The main issues are A) choice o
> bigfun (comp retire-host slowdown-host infect-hosts naturalrecovery-
> host pair-host)
> proc1 (future (doseq [i (subvec world 0 2499)] (bigfun i)))
> proc2 (future (doseq [i (subvec world 2500 4999)] (bigfun i)))
> proc3 (future (doseq [i (subvec world 5000 7499)] (bigfun i)))
> proc4 (future
I've written individual-based models using agents, and using refs.
Currently my decision tree is 'agents, if there are no events which
need to be atomically synchronized between individuals**'.
In both cases I had a vector full of individuals called 'world'. When
the individuals were agents, I c
>
> What does 1.0 mean to you? Are we there yet? Any recommendations for
> the organization of the release branches, patch policy etc?
>
I see 1.0 as indicating there will be a significant period (months)
between breaking changes. It seems we are there, based on your
comments on API stability. H
Updating to reflect last changes:
(def snipgets
(let [divs (select (html-resource "widget.html")
[[:div (attr? :tiptree:widget)]])]
(into {}
(for [div divs]
[(-> div :attrs :tiptree:widget)
(snippet div [root]
[widget]
[:div.value]
select, snippet, at and template are macro sugar. If you _really_ want
to use first-class selectors then you'll have to deal directly with
states machines and use at*, select* and snippet* (I'm going to improve
their usability).
While selectors aren't first class, they can be parametrized (as
What I'd really like to see are better command line tools. Make it
easy to compile, merge with java code, (or jython, or jruby, etc), and
a repl that came closer to something like IPython. A prototype lint
would be nice too, assuming it's possible for a lisp. And of course,
easier install.
The
On 16.04.2009, at 18:53, Rich Hickey wrote:
> What does 1.0 mean to you? Are we there yet? Any recommendations for
> the organization of the release branches, patch policy etc?
What I tacitly expect from a 1.0 release (or any official, numbered
release) is
- bug fixes without imposed changes i
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