Re: Why is this so difficult?

On another note, I wonder if a leiningen2 wizard installer for windows would be in high-demand (does one already exist?). Anyone familiar with writing windows wizards? -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send e

Re: Why is this so difficult?

2013/2/17 Jim - FooBar(); > "clojure-doc.org" ?? > OMG, is this new? it seems to have some gorgeous tutorials for newcomers > It has been up since October 2012. Not much activity recently but except for macros, all the essentials are pretty well covered already. -- MK http://github

Re: Why is this so difficult?

It's been around for quite some time actually but not known to many people still. On Sun, Feb 17, 2013 at 4:43 PM, Jim - FooBar(); wrote: > "clojure-doc.org" ?? > OMG, is this new? it seems to have some gorgeous tutorials for > newcomers...LIke Bizics, i had no idea this site existe

Re: Why is this so difficult?

"clojure-doc.org" ?? OMG, is this new? it seems to have some gorgeous tutorials for newcomers...LIke Bizics, i had no idea this site existed! How come google is not showing this in the first page when typing "Clojure docs" or something like that? I'm definately bookmarking this...

Re: Why is this so difficult?

...agreed, the introduction to CCW at: http://clojure-doc.org/articles/tutorials/eclipse.html ...is simple enough even for me to understand, and I'm now happy that CCW is working. I'd previously tried: http://dev.clojure.org/display/doc/Getting+Started+with+Eclipse+and+Counterclockwise ...whic

Re: Why is this so difficult?

@Andy: Talk about unfortunate naming !! clojuredocs.org vs. clojure-doc.org There is a site called "clojure-doc.org" ?? And it has some excellent documentation? I just read their CCW guide - it is excellent and would have saved me so much frustration but I had no idea the site existed. "clojure

Re: Why is this so difficult?

@Andy: I hadn't seen that page before, and it is excellent. It explains everything step-by-step and also gives key information, for example that it is not necessary to install leiningen manually because it comes with CCW. If possible, that guide should be featured prominently on http://code.goo

Re: Why is this so difficult?

On Saturday, 16 February 2013 02:31:43 UTC+8, puzzler wrote: > On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 8:19 AM, Jules >wrote: > >> But now you still don't have leiningen, which is essential if you want to >> do anything non toy. The installation page of CCW does describe how to >> create a leiningen project, b

Re: Why is this so difficult?

Phil Hagelberg writes: >> I'd agree with this. The situation is even not ideal with linux; when I >> first used Clojure I was reticient to install lein by hand and only lein >> 1 was available for my repo. Lazy? Well, I use 4 or 5 machines >> routinely, and I set them up as I go, so an quick and e

Re: Why is this so difficult?

Víctor M. V. writes: > Phil, while I don't know the specific application you're working on, > distributing Clojure apps to end users should't be any more difficult than > distributing Java apps. Are you familiar with `lein uberjar`? No, you miss the point. I am writing a DSL. The point is that "e

Re: Why is this so difficult?

Jules: Did you see this page on clojure-doc.org before? http://clojure-doc.org/articles/tutorials/eclipse.html I don't know if it covers any of the difficulties you found, or documents anything that you'd like to see documented, but Michael Klishin and others that maintain clojure-doc.org

Re: Why is this so difficult?

Okay, here is what happened when I tried to install on a fresh win 8 machine: - first downloaded eclipse - tried to run it => no java installed - installed java from the oracle site (making sure to opt out of their bundeled crapware :P) - tried to run eclipse again, says still no java installed

Re: Why is this so difficult?

On Feb 15, 2013, at 6:37 PM, Phil Hagelberg wrote: > > There's really no reason (apart from a lack of motivated devs working on > it) that you'd have to choose between the two. As of Leiningen 2.x it's > possible to use Leiningen as a library, which is how CCW uses it. It > would be easy in theor

Re: Why is this so difficult?

> It's true that many people will want/need leiningen at some point, but > Clooj will suffice for a long time for some kinds of work and one can > use lein and Clooj together to do quite a lot more. There's really no reason (apart from a lack of motivated devs working on it) that you'd have to ch

Re: Why is this so difficult?

> between the current doc improvement for lein we're both participating in ( https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/issues/1007) and the available doc for CCW (installation is one step really), are there any pain points that such a starter kit would address? A starter kit would address several

Re: Why is this so difficult?

On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 4:02 AM, Jules wrote: > But most windows users aren't familiar with emacs. Probably fair to say that "most users aren't familiar with emacs" :) > Note also that the hypothetical beginner has not figured out yet that > lein.bat is in fact leiningen. He thinks that that is

Re: Why is this so difficult?

On Feb 15, 2013, at 1:29 PM, Víctor M. V. wrote: > Jules: > > between the current doc improvement for lein we're both participating in > (https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/issues/1007) and the available doc > for CCW (installation is one step really), are there any pain points that > s

Re: Why is this so difficult?

Phillip Lord writes: > I'd agree with this. The situation is even not ideal with linux; when I > first used Clojure I was reticient to install lein by hand and only lein > 1 was available for my repo. Lazy? Well, I use 4 or 5 machines > routinely, and I set them up as I go, so an quick and easy i

Re: Why is this so difficult?

P.S. I've been very happy with the latest version of leiningen on Windows. -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be pa

Re: Why is this so difficult?

On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 8:19 AM, Jules wrote: > But now you still don't have leiningen, which is essential if you want to > do anything non toy. The installation page of CCW does describe how to > create a leiningen project, but doesn't say that you first have to manually > install leiningen. >

Re: Why is this so difficult?

Jules: between the current doc improvement for lein we're both participating in ( https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/issues/1007) and the available doc for CCW (installation is one step really), are there any pain points that such a starter kit would address? On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 6:42 P

Re: Why is this so difficult?

Leiningen works on Windows. On Feb 15, 2013 8:32 AM, "Phil Hagelberg" wrote: > > So for the record, the reason Leiningen doesn't work on Windows is > primarily that Windows users spend a lot more time talking about how it > doesn't work on Windows, and very little time actually making it work on

Re: Why is this so difficult?

It is reproducible from a clean install, as far as I can tell (but it is possible that I had not deleted previous leiningen fully). I have posted it on the issue tracker. What I was thinking is not to integrate CCW installation to leiningen, but instead a "Clojure Starter Kit" just for windows

Re: Why is this so difficult?

Just for the record, I've had problems with lein trampoline on the past, but the latest version of lein is fine. I do all my clojure on Windows 7. -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@google

Re: Why is this so difficult?

On `lein repl` hanging - it could be anything, from the repl is used ( https://github.com/trptcolin/reply/) to who knows. If your issue is reproducible with a clean lein install, there should be no reason why a bug report wouldn't be welcome. File hosting wouldn't be as much as problem a setting u

Re: Why is this so difficult?

Yes, just zipping up a clean eclipse+ccw was my first thought too, but the resulting file is rather large 200MB or so, so we'd need to find hosting for that. On Friday, February 15, 2013 6:09:14 PM UTC+1, vemv wrote: > > Now I think it, if automating the CCW plugin install is too difficult > (E

Re: Why is this so difficult?

Actually I think CCW is not the issue but leiningen. If I do this: lein new foo cd foo lein repl Now leiningen hangs. If I run lein repl outside of a project folder, it works. I'm not sure if this is really a problem with leiningen, or I just did something wrong at some point, so I'm a bit hesi

Re: Why is this so difficult?

Now I think it, if automating the CCW plugin install is too difficult (Eclipse is very script-unfriendly) we could just mantain an already-configured setup ready to download. In other words, zipping and uploading a clean `eclipse` folder. On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 6:03 PM, Víctor M. V. wrote: > on

Re: Why is this so difficult?

I don't want to sound like a curmudgeon, but all I can say is people who complain about lein have never written a Makefile. Jason Lewis Email jasonlewi...@gmail.com Twitter@canweriotnow Blog http://decomplecting.org About htt

Re: Why is this so difficult?

on the CCW hang you mention - I saw an issue that was marked as "critical" on the bug tracker, two weeks ago. As I can't find it anymore I assume it's been fixed. Are you sure you're using the absolute latest version? If you are, you should open an issue. I like your idea. Assuming curl is instal

Re: Why is this so difficult?

On Feb 15, 2013, at 5:30 PM, Phil Hagelberg wrote: > It's like some kind of reverse Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. I never use +1, but this is the case mimmo -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email

Re: Why is this so difficult?

By the way, I've been trying to write an install script for windows that installs leiningen + CCW. Creating a folder for all Clojure stuff, putting that folder on the PATH, downloading lein.bat, running lein self-install, downloading eclipse works OK. So far there are two problems I ran into tha

Re: Why is this so difficult?

So for the record, the reason Leiningen doesn't work on Windows is primarily that Windows users spend a lot more time talking about how it doesn't work on Windows, and very little time actually making it work on Windows. It's like some kind of reverse Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. Just becaus

Re: Why is this so difficult?

Phil, while I don't know the specific application you're working on, distributing Clojure apps to end users should't be any more difficult than distributing Java apps. Are you familiar with `lein uberjar`? As for Linux installation, curling and executing a single script can't be that much work...?

Re: Why is this so difficult?

lpetit, I'll describe my experience with CCW on windows. Installing CCW is fairly easy, though not as easy as just downloading and running. If you go to the counterclockwise site (https://code.google.com/p/counterclockwise/) it is reasonably clear what you should do, but not as clear as it could

Re: Why is this so difficult?

I'd agree with this. The situation is even not ideal with linux; when I first used Clojure I was reticient to install lein by hand and only lein 1 was available for my repo. Lazy? Well, I use 4 or 5 machines routinely, and I set them up as I go, so an quick and easy install is important. Eventuall

Re: Why is this so difficult?

Sure...(lpetit, I can't remember what threw me, I probably don't have Eclipse set up correctly, but I'll add a note when I've checked it out.) -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegrou

Re: Why is this so difficult?

I too suggest taking a second look at CCW. I'll never be an Emacs guy and current CCW should be an almost seamless setup with Lein. On Friday, February 15, 2013 8:53:47 AM UTC-6, lpetit wrote: > > Hello, > > 2013/2/15 BJG145 >: > > Jules sums up pretty exactly where I was at...tried CCW, nope,

Re: Why is this so difficult?

Figuring stuff out is all very well if you've got a clear, consistent, reliable source of information. Learning Clojure the language - get a book, no problem. Learning Clojure the IDE...it's a mess, loads of blogs, some good, some bad, a lot of outdated or abandoned stuff. Google Clojure and y

Re: Why is this so difficult?

Well, given that you've mentioned Ruby, I can tell you that getting real work done (no just a installing some welcome pack) in Ruby is orders of magnitude harder than with Clojure - and borderline impossible if using Windows. What Lein does is divided into a dozen tools, each with its own idiosyncr

Re: Why is this so difficult?

Hello, 2013/2/15 BJG145 : > Jules sums up pretty exactly where I was at...tried CCW, nope, tried light Sorry to be a little bit off topic (or am I ?), but as one of the main developers of CCW, I'd like to learn from this "nope". Indeed, one of the main goals of CCW is to be beginner friendly so

Re: Why is this so difficult?

Jules sums up pretty exactly where I was at...tried CCW, nope, tried light Table, nope, looked at Leiningen, thought: "Edit PATH? What, I haven't done that since I was on Windows 3.1, and what does this thing do anyway"...I appreciate the time people have put into all the advice given above beca

Re: Why is this so difficult?

Sean, Thanks a lot, I'll try that method later. I have succeeded in installing leiningen, and indeed just running it from the command line and using emacs as an editor is the most user friendly way I've seen (other things like lighttable and ccw didn't work for me -- most likely i did something

Re: Why is this so difficult?

On 2013-02-15, at 4:16 AM, BJG145 wrote: > I don't know anything about build managers so I think my next step will be to > pick up a book on Maven to get the background…) Don't. Just don't. All you really need to know about maven, and it's role, is what you can get from wikipedia. Seriously.

Re: Why is this so difficult?

On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 10:32 AM, Víctor M. V. wrote: > While it's perfectly useful and valuable to learn Maven, you need not to > dive into it for most purposes in the Clojure world - Leiningen effectively > abstracts its complexities and rigidities (which, I hear, are many). > > +1. Maven is a

Re: Why is this so difficult?

Hi people! Sean, thanks for your landscape description of Clojure world. I'm a lurker in this list, since +-2009. In the past year, I was showing Clojure in programmer talks, using my Windows machine, and I have no major problem, using plain command line with clojure jar, and then, lein. I don't u

Re: Why is this so difficult?

While it's perfectly useful and valuable to learn Maven, you need not to dive into it for most purposes in the Clojure world - Leiningen effectively abstracts its complexities and rigidities (which, I hear, are many). On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 10:17 AM, BJG145 wrote: > (Loads of great advice and i

Re: Why is this so difficult?

(Loads of great advice and information here, thanks! I don't know anything about build managers so I think my next step will be to pick up a book on Maven to get the background...) -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to thi

Re: Why is this so difficult?

(Loads of great advice and information, here, thanks. I don't know anything about build managers so I think my next step will be to pick up a book on Maven to get the background...) -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this

Re: Why is this so difficult?

On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 9:12 AM, wrote: > Do you know LispBox ? We need a > ClojureBox. > > There is, or perhaps was, a ClojureBox. Although it seems to have been aimed specifically at Windows. Last update seems to have been about a year ago. https://github.c

Re: Why is this so difficult?

Do you know LispBox ? We need a ClojureBox. Le vendredi 15 février 2013 03:56:59 UTC+1, Jules a écrit : > > vemv, here is a file describing my Clojure install experience: > https://www.dropbox.com/s/ln2ek5f5n47qnl1/clojureinstall.odp > > How should I continue

Re: Why is this so difficult?

Well the first thing you assume is that project pages should be giant download buttons, and therefore the exposed content in those pages is not worth reading/understanding. For instance you can find the answer to the question posed in the slide 19 in slide 7. Just imagine if every single open sour

Re: Why is this so difficult?

I feel your pain BJG145, when I started learning Clojure I used Clooj to be able start playing with the language, it provides the basics, a REPL, a text area for the code and a tree of files and folder for the current project. It's simple and get's you

Re: Why is this so difficult?

2013/2/15 Konrad Scorciapino > You might, BJG145, also profit by taking a look at clojurewiki.org - I'm > listing there all resources I can find. > You may want to add clojure-doc.org, which is the most complete, contributor friendly source of documentation guides (including guides on the ecosys

Re: Why is this so difficult?

On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 6:56 PM, Jules wrote: > vemv, here is a file describing my Clojure install experience: > https://www.dropbox.com/s/ln2ek5f5n47qnl1/clojureinstall.odp > > How should I continue? And where would a beginner find that information? The problem is the Clojure world, for the most

Re: Why is this so difficult?

You might, BJG145, also profit by taking a look at clojurewiki.org - I'm listing there all resources I can find. Good luck! 2013/2/15 Jules > vemv, here is a file describing my Clojure install experience: > https://www.dropbox.com/s/ln2ek5f5n47qnl1/clojureinstall.odp > > How should I continue?

Re: Why is this so difficult?

vemv, here is a file describing my Clojure install experience: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ln2ek5f5n47qnl1/clojureinstall.odp How should I continue? And where would a beginner find that information? Hopefully this is taken in good humor, this is meant as an illustration from a beginners' point of

Re: Why is this so difficult?

FWIW, I've been using Clojure seriously for a couple of years now and never really used Leiningen. I've found that Eclipse with the awesome "Counterclockwise" plugin does everything that I need. This is also pretty easy for newcomers (assuming they know Eclipse) - just install the Counterclock

Re: Why is this so difficult?

Hi BJG145, I absolutely see where you're coming from. And in fairness, it did take a me a long and arduous time to get a really proficient development environment. I happen to really like expressive power. So when I came from a Java / OO development paradigm, it didn't bother me that I had to lear

Re: Why is this so difficult?

If this does not work for you, you can help everyone by opening an issue at the Leiningen bug tracker: Make sure java and curl are correctly installed Run the corresponding (unix or Windows) lein install script Now you should be able to run lein repl, lein new, etc On Friday, February 15, 2013 1

Re: Why is this so difficult?

Sure, but you have assumed that you have a perfectly working clojure environment set up. *That* is the hard part. On Friday, February 15, 2013 12:19:34 AM UTC+1, vemv wrote: > > I never tried out core.logic. This is how I just got it "installed" in > less than a minute. Really no magic here: > >

Re: Why is this so difficult?

I never tried out core.logic. This is how I just got it "installed" in less than a minute. Really no magic here: lein new foo; cd foo # google "core.logic", grab the dependencies vector ([org.clojure/core.logic "0.7.5"]), attach it to your project.clj lein repl (use 'clojure.core.logic)(run* [q

Re: Why is this so difficult?

You are certainly not alone. Learning the language and concepts is very easy for me, but the sysadmin stuff to get set up is so much harder. Believe it or not, I had much more trouble with installing core.logic than understanding it. It doesn't end either, you bump into more problems once you t

Re: Why is this so difficult?

On Feb 14, 2013, at 3:50 PM, Alex Walker wrote: > The easiest, when anything becomes a road block, is simply tryclj.com > combined with 4clojure.com. > > Those two alone can give you enough to work with and chew on while you become > more familiar with clojure and setup a proper environment (

Re: Why is this so difficult?

This might help: 1. create a new project in the current directory "lein new" 2. Edit project.clj and add this plugin [lein-idea: "1.0.1"] 3. run this to create idea project files "lein idea" 4. Open the project in intellij Josh On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 12:29 AM, BJG145 wrote: >

Re: Why is this so difficult?

Thanks for the suggestions - this really isn't an anti-Leiningen thread, I'm just impatient that I don't understand it yet. But I'll give it another crack and post some more coherent queries when I get stuck...:-) -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group

Re: Why is this so difficult?

The easiest, when anything becomes a road block, is simply tryclj.comcombined with 4clojure.com. Those two alone can give you enough to work with and chew on while you become more familiar with clojure and setup a proper environment (including Leiningen). Another simplification is to use lei

Re: Why is this so difficult?

I think I have an idea of where your coming from. Leiningen does lots of wonderful and important things but coming from the outside (or at least from certain "outsides") it's not even clear why you'd want to do a lot of those things, and it doesn't do some of the things that seem most essential

Re: Why is this so difficult?

What I find exasperating about Leinigen is that I've got a degree in computer science, decades of experience in IT support, and I still haven't been able to get it working yet. :-( Package Manager? Curl? What? OK, look, I'm not very bright. It took me years to get my head round OOP because al

Re: Why is this so difficult?

Well, leiningen isn't just the best way to get started with Clojure, it's the best way to install and work with Clojure. Leiningen isn't simply a beginners tool. It's the toolbox for the Clojure programmer. Regardless of what IDE or editor you use, you're still going to want Leiningen if you're

Re: Why is this so difficult?

Can you explain a bit more? What do you find difficult about Leinigen? Thanks, Timothy On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 11:42 AM, BJG145 wrote: > Having studied Lisp decades ago I like the look of Clojure a lot. But as a > complete newbie when it comes to modern software development, I'm > exasperated

Why is this so difficult?

Having studied Lisp decades ago I like the look of Clojure a lot. But as a complete newbie when it comes to modern software development, I'm exasperated by what strikes me as a very difficult and primitive set of tools to get started. I keep seeing "Leinigen, Leinigen", and the Leinigen homepag