Re: Sean Carroll's Google talk about his book

On 11-10-2019 20:36, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List wrote: On 10/11/2019 5:48 AM, smitra wrote: Indeed. The opposition to the MWI is not really motivated by the technical details, people tend to oppose it because they don't like the idea of "many words". Technical details are invoked but

Re: Sean Carroll's Google talk about his book

On 10/11/2019 5:48 AM, smitra wrote: Indeed. The opposition to the MWI is not really motivated by the technical details, people tend to oppose it because they don't like the idea of "many words". Technical details are invoked but these apply just as well to QM in general not just to MWI. T

Re: Sean Carroll's Google talk about his book

On 10-10-2019 23:42, John Clark wrote: On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 5:16 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List wrote: And of course nobody but me has bothered to read his book, but everybody has an opinion about it. _You keep posting that, but I've already posted that I have read Carroll's book

Re: Sean Carroll's Google talk about his book

> On 10 Oct 2019, at 09:33, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, October 9, 2019 at 3:59:50 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: > On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 4:55 PM Philip Thrift > wrote: > > > Other interpretations (but not MWI, as far as I can see) are used in > > writing programs for computati

Re: Sean Carroll's Google talk about his book

> On 9 Oct 2019, at 22:55, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, October 9, 2019 at 2:41:19 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: > On Tue, Oct 8, 2019 at 4:54 PM Philip Thrift > wrote: > > > I haven't seen yet where MWI serves any useful purpose. > > If you're only interested in making a better

Re: Sean Carroll's Google talk about his book

> On 9 Oct 2019, at 11:17, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, October 8, 2019 at 6:24:28 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: > > > On 10/8/2019 2:59 PM, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> On Tuesday, October 8, 2019 at 2:40:33 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: >> >> That MWI entails other, unobservable "worlds"

Re: Sean Carroll's Google talk about his book

On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 5:16 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: >> And of course nobody but me has bothered to read his book, but everybody > has an opinion about it. > > > *You keep posting that, but I've already posted that I have read > Carroll's bo

Re: Sean Carroll's Google talk about his book

On 10/10/2019 6:39 AM, John Clark wrote: And of course nobody but me has bothered to read his book, but everybody has an opinion about it. You keep posting that, but I've already posted that I have read Carroll's book, and I've watched his recent video.  I don't think QM is the last word, s

Re: Sean Carroll's Google talk about his book

On Thursday, October 10, 2019 at 6:35:11 AM UTC-5, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > > Le jeu. 10 oct. 2019 à 11:30, Philip Thrift > a écrit : > >> >> >> On Thursday, October 10, 2019 at 2:40:53 AM UTC-5, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> Le jeu. 10 oct. 2019 à 09:34, Philip Thrift a >>> écrit

Re: Sean Carroll's Google talk about his book

On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 7:30 AM Bruce Kellett wrote: > >> The MWI needs renormalization just like its competitors, but nobody >> said many-worlds theory is the be all and end all and needs no >> improvement, but at least it provides a quantum-mechanical model however >> imperfect it may be. >> >

Re: Sean Carroll's Google talk about his book

Le jeu. 10 oct. 2019 à 11:30, Philip Thrift a écrit : > > > On Thursday, October 10, 2019 at 2:40:53 AM UTC-5, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >> >> >> >> Le jeu. 10 oct. 2019 à 09:34, Philip Thrift a >> écrit : >> >>> >>> >>> On Wednesday, October 9, 2019 at 3:59:50 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote:

Re: Sean Carroll's Google talk about his book

On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 10:09 PM John Clark wrote: > On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 6:46 AM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > > >>And Multiple Histories uses path integral formulation and path integral >>> formulation uses renormalization theory which is entirely in sympathy with >>> the Shut Up And Calculate I

Re: Sean Carroll's Google talk about his book

On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 6:46 AM Bruce Kellett wrote: >>And Multiple Histories uses path integral formulation and path integral >> formulation uses renormalization theory which is entirely in sympathy with >> the Shut Up And Calculate Interpretation; it's a wonderful way of getting >> the right an

Re: Sean Carroll's Google talk about his book

On Thursday, October 10, 2019 at 5:29:32 AM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: > > On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 3:34 AM Philip Thrift > wrote: > > *>>> Other interpretations (but not MWI, as far as I can see) are used in writing programs for computational QM.* >>> >>> >>> >> Like what? >>> >> >> *> Multi

Re: Sean Carroll's Google talk about his book

On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 9:29 PM John Clark wrote: > On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 3:34 AM Philip Thrift > wrote: > > *>>> Other interpretations (but not MWI, as far as I can see) are used in writing programs for computational QM.* >>> >>> >>> >> Like what? >>> >> >> *> Multiple Histories.* >> > >

Re: Sean Carroll's Google talk about his book

On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 3:34 AM Philip Thrift wrote: *>>> Other interpretations (but not MWI, as far as I can see) are used in >>> writing programs for computational QM.* >> >> >> >> Like what? >> > > *> Multiple Histories.* > And Multiple Histories uses path integral formulation and path integr

Re: Sean Carroll's Google talk about his book

On Thursday, October 10, 2019 at 2:40:53 AM UTC-5, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > > Le jeu. 10 oct. 2019 à 09:34, Philip Thrift > a écrit : > >> >> >> On Wednesday, October 9, 2019 at 3:59:50 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: >>> >>> On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 4:55 PM Philip Thrift wrote: >>> >>> *> Other

Re: Sean Carroll's Google talk about his book

Le jeu. 10 oct. 2019 à 09:34, Philip Thrift a écrit : > > > On Wednesday, October 9, 2019 at 3:59:50 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: >> >> On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 4:55 PM Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> *> Other interpretations (but not MWI, as far as I can see) are used in >>> writing programs for comput

Re: Sean Carroll's Google talk about his book

On Wednesday, October 9, 2019 at 3:59:50 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: > > On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 4:55 PM Philip Thrift > wrote: > > *> Other interpretations (but not MWI, as far as I can see) are used in >> writing programs for computational QM.* > > > Like what? > > John K Clark > > > Multiple

Re: Sean Carroll's Google talk about his book

On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 4:55 PM Philip Thrift wrote: *> Other interpretations (but not MWI, as far as I can see) are used in > writing programs for computational QM.* Like what? John K Clark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group.

Re: Sean Carroll's Google talk about his book

On Wednesday, October 9, 2019 at 2:41:19 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: > > On Tue, Oct 8, 2019 at 4:54 PM Philip Thrift > wrote: > > > *I haven't seen yet where MWI serves any useful purpose.* > > > If you're only interested in making a better widget then the MWI has no > useful purpose and you s

Re: Sean Carroll's Google talk about his book

On Tue, Oct 8, 2019 at 5:41 PM Bruce Kellett wrote: >> What do you think he's selling? >> > > *His book? Actually, he is selling a particular approach to QM, and > claiming, in no uncertain terms, that his is the only "true" approach.* > Such slander gives me rock solid proof that not only have

Re: Sean Carroll's Google talk about his book

On Tue, Oct 8, 2019 at 4:54 PM Philip Thrift wrote: > *I haven't seen yet where MWI serves any useful purpose.* If you're only interested in making a better widget then the MWI has no useful purpose and you should just stick with the Shut Up And Calculate Interpretation, but if you have any int

Re: Sean Carroll's Google talk about his book

On Tuesday, October 8, 2019 at 6:24:28 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: > > > > On 10/8/2019 2:59 PM, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, October 8, 2019 at 2:40:33 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: > > That MWI entails other, unobservable "worlds" is neither a bug or a >> feature, it's just one answer to the

Re: Sean Carroll's Google talk about his book

On Tuesday, October 8, 2019 at 6:21:29 PM UTC-5, Bruce wrote: classical probability due to lack of knowledge -- nothing quantum about it > > Bruce > Even before QM came on the scene, there were competing and differing ideas of probability, including "knowledge-independent" (3.): https

Re: Sean Carroll's Google talk about his book

On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 2:48 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > On 10/8/2019 5:47 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 11:42 AM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < > everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > >> On 10/8/2019 5:07 PM, B

Re: Sean Carroll's Google talk about his book

On 10/8/2019 5:47 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote: On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 11:42 AM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: On 10/8/2019 5:07 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote: On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 10:24 AM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List mailto:eve

Re: Sean Carroll's Google talk about his book

On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 11:42 AM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > On 10/8/2019 5:07 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 10:24 AM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < > everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > >> >> On 10/8/2019 2:59 P

Re: Sean Carroll's Google talk about his book

On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 11:36 AM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > On 10/8/2019 5:03 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 10:49 AM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < > everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > >> On 10/8/2019 4:21 PM,

Re: Sean Carroll's Google talk about his book

On 10/8/2019 5:07 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote: On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 10:24 AM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: On 10/8/2019 2:59 PM, Philip Thrift wrote: That sounds reasonable. Indeed, it is reasonable. It is just as reasonable a

Re: Sean Carroll's Google talk about his book

On 10/8/2019 5:03 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote: On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 10:49 AM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: On 10/8/2019 4:21 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote: On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 9:53 AM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List mailto:ever

Re: Sean Carroll's Google talk about his book

On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 10:24 AM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > On 10/8/2019 2:59 PM, Philip Thrift wrote: > > That sounds reasonable. Indeed, it is reasonable. It is just as reasonable > as the measurement postulate. In fact, it is logically entir

Re: Sean Carroll's Google talk about his book

On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 10:49 AM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > On 10/8/2019 4:21 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 9:53 AM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < > everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > >> What additional assum

Re: Sean Carroll's Google talk about his book

On 10/8/2019 4:21 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote: On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 9:53 AM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: On 10/8/2019 2:41 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote: On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 4:35 AM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List mailto:every

Re: Sean Carroll's Google talk about his book

On 10/8/2019 2:59 PM, Philip Thrift wrote: On Tuesday, October 8, 2019 at 2:40:33 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: That MWI entails other, unobservable "worlds" is neither a bug or a feature, it's just one answer to the measurement problem.  If you have a better answer, feel free to state

Re: Sean Carroll's Google talk about his book

On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 9:53 AM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > On 10/8/2019 2:41 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 4:35 AM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < > everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > >> On 10/8/2019 12:10 AM, B

Re: Sean Carroll's Google talk about his book

On 10/8/2019 2:41 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote: On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 4:35 AM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: On 10/8/2019 12:10 AM, Bruce Kellett wrote: I watched a little of Sean's talk at Google. It is a very slick marketing exe

Re: Sean Carroll's Google talk about his book

On 10/8/2019 1:43 PM, Philip Thrift wrote: On Tuesday, October 8, 2019 at 2:40:33 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: On 10/8/2019 11:21 AM, Philip Thrift wrote: On Tuesday, October 8, 2019 at 12:35:25 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: On 10/8/2019 12:10 AM, Bruce Kellett wrote: On

Re: Sean Carroll's Google talk about his book

On Tuesday, October 8, 2019 at 5:01:14 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: > > > > > It [ontology] matters in applying the theory. In CI you apply the theory > by evolving a wf forward in time from an initial state. So the ontology > includes a "state" which is some initial wf. But you could do a consist

Re: Sean Carroll's Google talk about his book

On 10/8/2019 12:58 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: On Tuesday, October 8, 2019 at 1:40:33 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: On 10/8/2019 11:21 AM, Philip Thrift wrote: On Tuesday, October 8, 2019 at 12:35:25 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: On 10/8/2019 12:10 AM, Bruce Kellett wrote: On

Re: Sean Carroll's Google talk about his book

On Tuesday, October 8, 2019 at 2:40:33 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: That MWI entails other, unobservable "worlds" is neither a bug or a > feature, it's just one answer to the measurement problem. If you have a > better answer, feel free to state it. > > > Brent > MWI, according to Sabine Hossenf

Re: Sean Carroll's Google talk about his book

On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 4:35 AM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > On 10/8/2019 12:10 AM, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > I watched a little of Sean's talk at Google. It is a very slick marketing > exercise -- reminded me of a con man, or a snake oil salesman.

Re: Sean Carroll's Google talk about his book

On Tuesday, October 8, 2019 at 2:58:04 PM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, October 8, 2019 at 1:40:33 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 10/8/2019 11:21 AM, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tuesday, October 8, 2019 at 12:35:25 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 10/8/20

Re: Sean Carroll's Google talk about his book

On Tuesday, October 8, 2019 at 2:40:33 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: > > > > On 10/8/2019 11:21 AM, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, October 8, 2019 at 12:35:25 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 10/8/2019 12:10 AM, Bruce Kellett wrote: >> >> On Tue, Oct 8, 2019 at 10:13 AM Lawrence Crowell

Re: Sean Carroll's Google talk about his book

On Tuesday, October 8, 2019 at 1:40:33 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > > > On 10/8/2019 11:21 AM, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, October 8, 2019 at 12:35:25 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 10/8/2019 12:10 AM, Bruce Kellett wrote: >> >> On Tue, Oct 8, 2019 at 10:13 AM Lawrence Crowell

Re: Sean Carroll's Google talk about his book

On 10/8/2019 11:21 AM, Philip Thrift wrote: On Tuesday, October 8, 2019 at 12:35:25 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: On 10/8/2019 12:10 AM, Bruce Kellett wrote: On Tue, Oct 8, 2019 at 10:13 AM Lawrence Crowell > wrote: On Monday, October 7, 2019 at 4:21:27 PM UTC-5, John Clark

Re: Sean Carroll's Google talk about his book

On Tuesday, October 8, 2019 at 12:35:25 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: > > > > On 10/8/2019 12:10 AM, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On Tue, Oct 8, 2019 at 10:13 AM Lawrence Crowell > wrote: > >> On Monday, October 7, 2019 at 4:21:27 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: >>> >>> As far as I know dispite lots of talk a

Re: Sean Carroll's Google talk about his book

On 10/8/2019 12:10 AM, Bruce Kellett wrote: On Tue, Oct 8, 2019 at 10:13 AM Lawrence Crowell > wrote: On Monday, October 7, 2019 at 4:21:27 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: As far as I know dispite lots of talk about it I'm STILL the on

Re: Sean Carroll's Google talk about his book

on Tue, Oct 8, 2019 at 7:36 AM Bruce Kellett wrote: * > I watched most of the lecture, and was put off by the style and the > lack of substance.* > How much of Carroll's talk did you actually watch? If it was more than 90 seconds you'd know it did not lack substance. And I liked his style becaus

Re: Sean Carroll's Google talk about his book

On Tue, Oct 8, 2019 at 10:11 PM John Clark wrote: > On Tue, Oct 8, 2019 at 3:10 AM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > > *> I watched a little of Sean's talk at Google. It is a very slick >> marketing exercise -- reminded me of a con man, or a snake oil salesman. >> Too slick by half.* >> > > So you haven'

Re: Sean Carroll's Google talk about his book

On Tue, Oct 8, 2019 at 3:10 AM Bruce Kellett wrote: *> I watched a little of Sean's talk at Google. It is a very slick > marketing exercise -- reminded me of a con man, or a snake oil salesman. > Too slick by half.* > So you haven't read a word of Carroll's book and you even stopped watching his

Re: Sean Carroll's Google talk about his book

On Tuesday, October 8, 2019 at 2:10:33 AM UTC-5, Bruce wrote: > > On Tue, Oct 8, 2019 at 10:13 AM Lawrence Crowell > wrote: > >> On Monday, October 7, 2019 at 4:21:27 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: >>> >>> As far as I know dispite lots of talk about it I'm STILL the only one >>> on the list that h

Re: Sean Carroll's Google talk about his book

On Tue, Oct 8, 2019 at 10:13 AM Lawrence Crowell < goldenfieldquaterni...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Monday, October 7, 2019 at 4:21:27 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: >> >> As far as I know dispite lots of talk about it I'm STILL the only one on >> the list that has actually read Carroll's new book, but

Re: Sean Carroll's Google talk about his book

On Monday, October 7, 2019 at 6:13:46 PM UTC-5, Lawrence Crowell wrote: > > On Monday, October 7, 2019 at 4:21:27 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: >> >> As far as I know dispite lots of talk about it I'm STILL the only one on >> the list that has actually read Carroll's new book, but he gave an >> e

Re: Sean Carroll's Google talk about his book

On Monday, October 7, 2019 at 4:21:27 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: > > As far as I know dispite lots of talk about it I'm STILL the only one on > the list that has actually read Carroll's new book, but he gave an > excellent Google talk about it on Friday so maybe his critics will at > least watc

Re: Sean Carroll's Google talk about his book

On Mon, Oct 7, 2019 at 6:05 PM Philip Thrift wrote: > >> As far as I know despite lots of talk about it I'm STILL the only one on >> the list that has actually read Carroll's new book, but he gave an >> excellent Google talk about it on Friday so maybe his critics will at >> least watch that; aft

Re: Sean Carroll's Google talk about his book

On Monday, October 7, 2019 at 4:21:27 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: > > As far as I know dispite lots of talk about it I'm STILL the only one on > the list that has actually read Carroll's new book, but he gave an > excellent Google talk about it on Friday so maybe his critics will at > least wa

Sean Carroll's Google talk about his book

As far as I know dispite lots of talk about it I'm STILL the only one on the list that has actually read Carroll's new book, but he gave an excellent Google talk about it on Friday so maybe his critics will at least watch that; after all even an abbreviated Cliff Notes knowledge of a book is better