Jim Flanegin writes:
Contrasting premonitions with intuitions, premonitions feel as if
they are sensed from the inside out, whereas intuitions come from
the outside in. At least that is the way I experience them.
Tom T:
It is like that statment you may have heard said here. When one wakes
up
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Jun 10, 2006, at 11:20 PM, sparaig wrote:
In more recent comment, Ken is back-pedaling on his opinion of TM
research.
Probably because it is so at odds with the research coming out on
Buddhist meditation.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
this out as it is synonymous with Transcendental Knowing (jnana,
jJAna).
Vaj, the HK -transliteration for the palatal nasal as
'J' is rather misleading. I'd prefer 'ñ' instead, because
I gather quite a many people are
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Jun 10, 2006, at 4:04 PM, sparaig wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues
curtisdeltablues@ wrote:
I don't think of intuition as in the woo woo category.
Premonition
crosses that line
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues
curtisdeltablues@ wrote:
snip
[I wrote:]
The thing with people like Kurtz, I suspect, is that
his predisposition to dismiss astrology (and other
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote:
On Jun 10, 2006, at 10:30 PM, sparaig wrote:
[...]
Wilber seems to like Skip's work, BTW.
Actually him and Skip were in intimate communication up
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
snip
As I understand it, CC, GC, UC (etc.) refer to
specific types of experience at certain points
along a continuum of experience. I'm not sure
of the distinction Vaj is making between state
and stage, but again in
On Jun 11, 2006, at 1:25 AM, sparaig wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 10, 2006, at 11:20 PM, sparaig wrote:In more recent comment, Ken is back-pedaling on his opinion of TM research. Probably because it is so at odds with the research coming
If you don't mind me asking...do these states include performance of
siddhis as MMY claims?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@
wrote:
snip
As I understand it, CC, GC, UC (etc.) refer to
On Jun 11, 2006, at 3:36 AM, cardemaister wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: this out as it is synonymous with Transcendental Knowing (jnana, jJAna). Vaj, the HK -transliteration for the palatal nasal as 'J' is rather misleading.I agree. Personally I
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@
wrote:
snip
As I understand it, CC, GC, UC (etc.) refer to
specific types of experience at certain points
along a continuum of experience. I'm not sure
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[...]
Not that any of these are really discrete points;
it's just a matter of focusing somewhere on the
continuum and taking a snapshot, as it were, and
then identifying the types of experiences that show
up in the
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
If you don't mind me asking...do these states include performance
of
siddhis as MMY claims?
This would be a lot easier to answer if you could provide the exact
quote about this from Maharishi.
The thing about a
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@
wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@
wrote:
snip
As I understand it, CC, GC, UC (etc.) refer to
specific types of
Thanks, that is fascinating.
The point being here, is that Sidhis are like any other ability
living things develop- we learn to walk, to talk, and if fortunate,
to do Sidhis.
Most of the ones I remember were supernormal abilities.
I really appreciate your openness about your personal
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Thanks, that is fascinating.
The point being here, is that Sidhis are like any other ability
living things develop- we learn to walk, to talk, and if fortunate,
to do Sidhis.
Most of the ones I remember
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Thanks, that is fascinating.
The point being here, is that Sidhis are like any other ability
living things develop- we learn to walk, to talk, and if fortunate,
to do Sidhis.
Most of the ones I remember
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
No, I have not read that one. It looks good.
I think cognitve biases and logical fallacies are the
cornorstones to magical thinking. (I appreciate your
recent cites and posts on such.) And magical
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Thanks for your thoughts and inputs.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate
no_reply@ wrote:
I don't
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You might enjoy Ken Wilber's discussion of subjective
science in his book Eye to Eye.
Thanks, I put it on hold at the library. (I love free books and
internet access!)
Why is the
shift away from values
On Jun 10, 2006, at 12:27 AM, new_morning_blank_slate wrote:"Magical thinking,", myth, art, poetry, drama, literature, dreams, are great things -- in the vast realms that science does not provide a more effective, predicable, researched and validated set of models, explanations and remedies /
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
One more point about Astrology. It is making a scientific claim
about
the relationship between the chart systems and their predictive
ability. It is bound by the system it mimics, but had not yet
passed
the
I found this entire thread very interesting.Thanks for all of it. I have
similar (not so erudite
from my side) conversations with a close friend who is 70 and an
engineer/scientist. He is
very anti-religion, never had a mystical experience in his life,but is
intrigued by the idea,
altho I
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Curtis,
I agree with the general point that using words in discussions with
others that have a perjorative connonation -- to them -- is not
usually helpful to the tone and fruitfulness of the discussion.
I think we may be saying something roughly similar,
except that I don't know whether you put much stock
in intuition.
I definitely do, although I may or may not have more limits on how far
that can go. In the field of psychology and human behavior, intuition
seems to be a critical tool. I
That's not intuition, that's common sense, Curtis. Intuition is that annoying thing :) you often hear women say, I just have a feeling... about something or someone that seems completely illogical at the time, but turns out to be fairly accurate at some point later. That's intuition.
Sal
On
2) in the absence of an obvious natural cause, there must be an
unknown and un-natural cause
+++ In the absence of an obvious natural cause, there must be an
unknown and natural cause otherwise what you see isn't happening.
Like the rest of us, Mr. Kurtz can make observations that
reflect his
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate
no_reply@ wrote:
No, I have not read that one. It looks good.
I think cognitve biases and logical fallacies are the
cornorstones to magical
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate
no_reply@ wrote:
Thanks for your thoughts and inputs.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
--- In
You may have two good terms for the same thing! I think of intuition
as an internal ability to detect patterns and create wholes out of
perceived parts. It may not be verbal at first. I accept the idea
that you can intuit that my girlfriend will probably cheat on me after
you talk with her. I
We can pick this one up anytime Judy. Have a great trip!
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues
curtisdeltablues@ wrote:
One more point about Astrology. It is making a scientific claim
about
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Jun 10, 2006, at 12:27 AM, new_morning_blank_slate wrote:
Magical thinking,, myth, art, poetry, drama, literature, dreams, are
great things -- in the vast realms that science does not provide a
more effective,
On Jun 10, 2006, at 10:28 AM, curtisdeltablues wrote:
You may have two good terms for the same thing! I think of intuition
as an internal ability to detect patterns and create wholes out of
perceived parts.
It's not really an ability, though--more like a characteristic. It's
not something
Actually, I should have said that the latter is more like a premonition than intuition, and I'm not quite sure of the overlap. As for the former, if that's the case I intuit that you and your girlfriend need to sit down and have a long talk. :)
Sal
On Jun 10, 2006, at 10:28 AM,
Hey Sal,
I'll have to think about what we mean by intuition. For me, years of
noticing people's behaviors and patterns have sharpened my ability to
have better intuition about people's future behavior. I think some
therapist have been noticing so many people in such detail that they
do develop
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I think we may be saying something roughly similar,
except that I don't know whether you put much stock
in intuition.
I definitely do, although I may or may not have more limits on how far
that can go. In
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Nelson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate
no_reply@ wrote:
No, I have not read that one. It looks good.
I think cognitve
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Comments in [brackets].
That's not intuition, that's common sense, Curtis. Intuition is that
annoying thing :) you often hear women say, I just have a feeling...
about something or someone that seems completely
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You may have two good terms for the same thing! I think of intuition
as an internal ability to detect patterns and create wholes out of
perceived parts.
Then why not recognize it as pattern recognition -- on
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hey Sal,
I'll have to think about what we mean by intuition. For me, years of
noticing people's behaviors and patterns have sharpened my ability to
have better intuition about people's future behavior.
Pattern
I don't think of intuition as in the woo woo category. Premonition
crosses that line for me. Or the claim that one's intuitions are
always right. Intuition for me includes pattern recognition but it
includes other unconscious process that are not too well understood,
although commonly
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Nelson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate
no_reply@ wrote:
No, I have not read that one. It looks good.
I think cognitve
OK, I had never been interested in moving to FF most of the time I was in DC, it had just always seemed like kind of a dump. :) Then I found myself on a residence course during the early spring of 91 and it was during a speech by Bevan, of all people, that the thought just hit me, You're moving
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Actually, I should have said that the latter is more like a
premonition
than intuition, and I'm not quite sure of the overlap. As for the
former, if that's the case I intuit that you and your girlfriend
need
to
On Jun 10, 2006, at 11:34 AM, new_morning_blank_slate wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One thing that Sanskrit literature and philosophy teaches us is that each drishti or way-of-seeing is unique, and therefore each way-of- seeing has it's own unique,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Jun 10, 2006, at 11:34 AM, new_morning_blank_slate wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote:
One thing that Sanskrit literature and philosophy teaches us is that
each drishti or
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Jun 10, 2006, at 12:27 AM, new_morning_blank_slate wrote:
Magical thinking,, myth, art, poetry, drama, literature, dreams, are
great things -- in the vast realms that science does not provide a
more effective,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
You may have two good terms for the same thing! I think of intuition
as an internal ability to detect patterns and create wholes out of
perceived parts. It may not be verbal at first. I accept the idea
that
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate [EMAIL
PROTECTED] wrote:
The view in Jivan-mukta or other states does not change the chemistry
and physics of a jet engine. The perspective and context aboutsuch
knowledge may change, but Bernoulli's law is still Bernoulli's law.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate [EMAIL
PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues
curtisdeltablues@ wrote:
I think we may be saying something roughly similar,
except that I don't know whether you put much stock
in
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate [EMAIL
PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues
curtisdeltablues@ wrote:
You may have two good terms for the same thing! I think of intuition
as an internal ability to detect patterns and
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
I don't think of intuition as in the woo woo category. Premonition
crosses that line for me. Or the claim that one's intuitions are
always right. Intuition for me includes pattern recognition but it
includes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate
no_reply@ wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues
curtisdeltablues@ wrote:
You may have two good terms for the same thing! I
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate [EMAIL
PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate
no_reply@ wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues
On Jun 10, 2006, at 3:57 PM, sparaig wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The view in Jivan-mukta or other states does not change the chemistry and physics of a jet engine. The perspective and context aboutsuch knowledge may change, but
On Jun 10, 2006, at 3:26 PM, new_morning_blank_slate wrote:You have quite missed the point about magical thinking. And about subjective science. I'm merely replying to your brief remarks and less all this other stuff, which honestly simply does not interest me in the least.My points on magical
On Jun 10, 2006, at 3:47 PM, sparaig wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 10, 2006, at 12:27 AM, new_morning_blank_slate wrote: "Magical thinking,", myth, art, poetry, drama, literature, dreams, are great things -- in the vast realms that science
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
2) in the absence of an obvious natural cause, there must be an
unknown and un-natural cause
+++ In the absence of an obvious natural cause, there must be an
unknown and natural cause otherwise what you see
On Jun 10, 2006, at 4:04 PM, sparaig wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't think of intuition as in the woo woo category. Premonition crosses that line for me. Or the claim that one's intuitions are always right. Intuition for me
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Jun 10, 2006, at 3:57 PM, sparaig wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate
no_reply@ wrote:
The view in Jivan-mukta or other states does not change the
chemistry
and physics
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Jun 10, 2006, at 3:26 PM, new_morning_blank_slate wrote:
You have quite missed the point about magical thinking. And about
subjective science.
I'm merely replying to your brief remarks and less all this other
On Jun 10, 2006, at 8:14 PM, new_morning_blank_slate wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 10, 2006, at 3:57 PM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate no_reply@ wrote: The view in Jivan-mukta or other states
On Jun 10, 2006, at 8:18 PM, new_morning_blank_slate wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 10, 2006, at 3:26 PM, new_morning_blank_slate wrote: You have quite missed the point about magical thinking. And about subjective science. I'm merely replying
On Jun 10, 2006, at 9:05 PM, Vaj wrote:
I guess to state it plainly I'd have to restate one of Arthur C.
Clarke's three laws of prediction:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from
magic.
I would modify that slightly and say:
Any sufficiently advanced State of
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Jun 10, 2006, at 3:47 PM, sparaig wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote:
[...]
Different beings, in different dimensions of existence will also
experience the same phenomenon
On Jun 10, 2006, at 10:30 PM, sparaig wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 10, 2006, at 3:47 PM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: [...] Different beings, in different dimensions of existence will also
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Jun 10, 2006, at 10:30 PM, sparaig wrote:
[...]
Wilber seems to like Skip's work, BTW.
Actually him and Skip were in intimate communication up to his
untimely death.
His work The Eye of Spirit : An Integral
On Jun 10, 2006, at 11:20 PM, sparaig wrote: In more recent comment, Ken is back-pedaling on his opinion of TM research. Probably because it is so at odds with the research coming out on Buddhist meditation.No, I don't think that's it. It seems to have more to do with perceived credibility,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
We all make them. To the extent that we are aware of their
existence and structure, we can avoid them in our own internal
reasoning, and in communications.
Whoever has more than 20 in any post, gets a
Excellent post. Are you hip to Gilovitch's book: How We Know What
isn't So, The fallibility of human reason in everyday life? He studies
human cognitive error at Cornell.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0029117062/sr=8-1/qid=1149893839/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-4458199-6191348?%5Fencoding=UTF8
--- In
Did your insight occur to you before you read the post -- or after
actually reading it? Hoping its the latter, perhaps you can provide
some examples of specific cognitive biases and logical fallacies that
that you have found in your own personal experience that have helped
you to validate your
No, I have not read that one. It looks good.
I think cognitve biases and logical fallacies are the cornorstones to
magical thinking. (I appreciate your recent cites and posts on
such.) And magical interpretations -- whether of experiences,
scriptures or current events.
Magical thinking (MT)
Thanks, I have enjoyed many of your posts.
The term magical thinking seems to be a moving target for me in
relationship with communicating with others. I know where I draw this
line, but I think everyone has there own line to draw here. It seems
more useful as a concept of self discovery, but
Curtis,
I agree with the general point that using words in discussions with
others that have a perjorative connonation -- to them -- is not
usually helpful to the tone and fruitfulness of the discussion. Often
this occurs when there is not a common understanding of meaning.
Reading your recent
Thanks for the well thought-out post. I dig Paul Kurtz ,and as I
posted before, his books helped me sort out my perspective options
when I changed my view on what the epistemological implications of
transcendent experiences. I'm glad you got my point about
communication. I can't imagine anyone
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
snip
Kurtz goes on, It is only in recent human history that the species
has gradually been able to overcome mythological explanations.
Philosophy and metaphysics emerged, attempting to account for the
world
I think I understand your point about Kurtz and astrology.
Astrology's heavenly omens and signs were replaced by
the regularities discernible by physics and astronomy. Science
abandons occult for material causes.
His other examples seem clearer. He may mean that the focus on
planets
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I think I understand your point about Kurtz and astrology.
Astrology's heavenly omens and signs were replaced by
the regularities discernible by physics and astronomy. Science
abandons occult for material
Thanks for your thoughts and inputs.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate
no_reply@ wrote:
I don't think he's thought these points through
very well, or at least he isn't explaining them
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues
curtisdeltablues@ wrote:
I was interested in these points but I can't figure out what I
think yet:
And they can and should be applied to subjective
You might enjoy Ken Wilber's discussion of subjective
science in his book Eye to Eye.
Thanks, I put it on hold at the library. (I love free books and
internet access!)
Why is the
shift away from values and toward measurement a Good
Thing, necessarily? Why can't there be both?
If there is
One more point about Astrology. It is making a scientific claim about
the relationship between the chart systems and their predictive
ability. It is bound by the system it mimics, but had not yet passed
the test. If it claimed a mystical, un-measurable connection, it
would be better off in my
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