> Beyond that, there is the less measurable by very important influence
of acoustic and music-psychological theories upon compositional
styles, going back at least to Berlioz.
I would be interested to see specific examples in pieces of music
where these things produced events in the musical fore
David--
You went to Oberlin? I went to school right down the road in Ashland. When
were you there?
On 2/7/05 3:31 PM, "David W. Fenton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> saith:
> When he visited Oberlin while I was a student, his visit was actually
> sponsored by the dance department.
__
Phil Daley:
I don't see how anyone can argue a yes answer to this question. The
"scientific proof" would be that pretty much no one has ever heard
of [Cage] (outside of academic music people).
Now, *that's* not true. There's a major Hollywood actor who's taken
Cage's name as his own, and I ima
On 7 Feb 2005 at 12:34, Phil Daley wrote:
> At 2/7/2005 12:06 PM, Andrew Stiller wrote:
>
> >> To those who assert that music is a purely cultural phenomenon, I
> >> would point out that this idea has been put to the test, quite >>
> rigorously, by John Cage, who insisted that any sounds or
On 7 Feb 2005 at 12:06, Andrew Stiller wrote:
> whether other critters can be said to
> make music depends a lot on how music is defined.
Ah, finally a statement that shows that you *do* actually understand
the topic of discussion.
Speech uses sound to convey meaning (the prose of sound).
Mus
On 7 Feb 2005 at 11:34, Andrew Stiller wrote:
> > You prove *your* assertion that, in
> >effect, consonance can exist in music in which "dissonance" is
> >never resolved.
>
> Dumbarton Oaks Concerto. Last chord. QED
A schoolmarmish definition of "unresolved" you have here, as lots of
dissonance
On 7 Feb 2005 at 11:32, Andrew Stiller wrote:
> >ere is nothing important in music that comes from science.
> >
> >--
> David W. Fenton
>
> You've really got to stop blurting out things like that w.o thinking.
> Valved brasses? Boehm-system woodwinds? Electric and electronic
> instruments? MIDI?
On 6 Feb 2005 at 23:39, Darcy James Argue wrote:
> On 06 Feb 2005, at 6:22 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
>
> > There is nothing important in music that comes from science.
>
> That's like saying "There is nothing important in basketball that
> comes from physics."
>
> On the one hand, Lebron Lames
On Monday, February 7, 2005, at 12:34 PM, Phil Daley wrote:
The first question: "Was this (Cage's) music as successful (moving,
exciting, attractive) as other musics?"
I don't see how anyone can argue a yes answer to this question. The
"scientific proof" would be that pretty much no one has
Phil Daley / 05.2.7 / 00:34 PM wrote:
>The first question: "Was this (Cage's) music as successful (moving,
>exciting, attractive) as other musics?"
Woa. Never expected this to come.
I was very, very lucky to play his music under his direction one year
before he past away. His percussion piec
At 2/7/2005 01:31 PM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
>I'll argue yes, and easily. I'm not an academic, and never have been. But I
>
>If by 'other musics' you mean the bulk of music people listen to and buy,
>then Mozart can't hold a candle in this argument either. But there are many
>measures of succe
At 12:34 PM 2/7/05 -0500, Phil Daley wrote:
>The first question: "Was this (Cage's) music as successful (moving,
>exciting, attractive) as other musics?"
>I don't see how anyone can argue a yes answer to this question. The
>"scientific proof" would be that pretty much no one has ever heard of h
At 2/7/2005 12:06 PM, Andrew Stiller wrote:
>> To those who assert that music is a purely cultural phenomenon, I
>> would point out that this idea has been put to the test, quite
>> rigorously, by John Cage, who insisted that any sounds or combination
>> of sounds could be construed as music if
> Jerry:
> Birds don't make music -- they use sound for function.
to wh. me:
> Music has no function?
to wh. D. Fenton:
Logical misdirection.
Sounds can have function without being music.
Yes, and?...
Animals don't make music, though they do make sounds.
Leaving aside the by no means trivial o
You prove *your* assertion that, in
effect, consonance can exist in music in which "dissonance" is never
resolved.
Dumbarton Oaks Concerto. Last chord. QED
I've no interest in playing your childish debating games.
Oh dear.
--
Andrew Stiller
Kallisti Music Press
http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/
__
ere is nothing important in music that comes from science.
--
David W. Fenton
You've really got to stop blurting out things like that w.o thinking.
Valved brasses? Boehm-system woodwinds? Electric and electronic
instruments? MIDI? Nylon strings? Computer composition? Computer
sound synthesis? So
But of course this very thing produced Cage himself. Cage didn't posit
an alternate but an inverse. His way was never free but rather, full
enslavement. Without the legacy of culture we would be as every other
living thing -- in perpetual present. His early stuff was great!
Less intellec
Self-refuting arguments, Exhibit A:
On 06 Feb 2005, at 6:33 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
On 6 Feb 2005 at 16:11, Andrew Stiller wrote:
You are making the common error of confusing the function of a
behavior with the subjective experience of the one behaving. . . .
Birds don't make or appreciate musi
On 06 Feb 2005, at 6:22 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
There is nothing important in music that comes from science.
That's like saying "There is nothing important in basketball that comes
from physics."
On the one hand, Lebron Lames doesn't actually need to know the first
thing about Isaac Newton or
David W. Fenton wrote:
To those who assert that music is a purely cultural phenomenon, I
would point out that this idea has been put to the test, quite
rigorously, by John Cage, who insisted that any sounds or combination
of sounds could be construed as music if one merely had the will to do
so, a
On 6 Feb 2005 at 16:11, Andrew Stiller wrote:
> Jerry:
>
> > Birds don't make music -- they use sound for function.
>
> Music has no function?
Logical misdirection.
Sounds can have function without being music.
Animals don't make music, though they do make sounds.
> >Bird song is not produ
On 6 Feb 2005 at 15:26, Andrew Stiller wrote:
> >And when you eliminate the concept of dissonance in the musical text
> >(i.e., the dissonances are never resolved), --
> David W. Fenton
>
> I'm sorry, but this literally makes no sense as formulated, and there
> have clearly been several logical s
On 6 Feb 2005 at 13:17, Don B. Robertson wrote:
> Owain Sutton wrote:
> This is a good explanation of the situation - unfortunately it's
> beyond the distance that even musicians are prepared to go to question
> whether their understanding of music is inate or acquired. I do find
> is scary, that
At 04:11 PM 2/6/2005, Andrew Stiller wrote:
>To those who assert that music is a purely cultural phenomenon, I
>would point out that this idea has been put to the test, quite
>rigorously, by John Cage, who insisted that any sounds or combination
>of sounds could be construed as music if one m
Of course, Andrew. I do know that. I must not have couched my hypothetical question in the best way.
What I meant to consider may be better expressed this way: since the human hardware is subject to the same principles of physics that govern the resonant behavior of those materials that produce
Why was musical education considered (apparently) so important for
the girls and young women who studied with Vivaldi at the Ospedali?
One presumes that since orphans don't have dowries, they were being
prepared for employment. Was music a positive factor in that?
Never have seen anything wr
Maybe an interesting hypothetical question: does our "hardware"
(inner ear bones etc.) react to outside stimuli that bear some
relationship to the physical laws that govern the resonant behavior
of the bones themselves? Just an idle thought. I'm in no position
to explore this.
Chuck
The audi
Jerry:
Birds don't make music -- they use sound for function.
Music has no function?
Bird song is not produced for joy but for vigilance.
You are making the common error of confusing the function of a
behavior with the subjective experience of the one behaving. If you
accept that birdsong is a
And when you eliminate the concept of dissonance in the musical text
(i.e., the dissonances are never resolved),
--
David W. Fenton
I'm sorry, but this literally makes no sense as formulated, and there
have clearly been several logical steps omitted.
Let's do it this way: I deny what you say. Now
Owain Sutton wrote:
This is a good explanation of the situation - unfortunately it's beyond
the distance that even musicians are prepared to go to question whether
their understanding of music is inate or acquired. I do find is scary,
that people can react so vociferously against any suggestion
On 06 Feb 2005, at 11:34 AM, Gerald Berg wrote:
Well I believe by now Chomsky is seen as being wrong -- to learn
language requires a teacher or at least something to mimic early in
life otherwise it won't happen at all.
No, Jerry, that is absolute nonsense. I'm afraid you couldn't possibly
be
Going back a few messages on this thread, there absolutely is a
correlation between the overtone series and the scale - but it is the
pentatonic scale. The pentatonic scale developed separately,
independently, on each continent, obviously from the overtone series.
From the middle of the over
John
Technically I don't believe this is correct anymore. In fact we share
genomes with living coral reef that are not shared with lab rats
cousins -- no explanation as of yet.
But what it does seem to imply ( I mimicry) is that it is less a
function of genomes than the program with which they
Well I believe by now Chomsky is seen as being wrong -- to learn
language requires a teacher or at least something to mimic early in
life otherwise it won't happen at all. But I'm no expert merely a
mimic on the subject.
Our tempered tonality is fake -- it is entirely abstract - it has no
b
At 7:11 AM -0500 2/6/05, Christopher Smith wrote:
On Feb 5, 2005, at 8:34 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote:
Hi Chuck,
Well, clearly, we cannot perceive frequencies beyond those that our
hardware is capable of conveying to our brains. Other animals with
different hardware perceive a different range of
On Feb 5, 2005, at 8:34 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote:
Hi Chuck,
Well, clearly, we cannot perceive frequencies beyond those that our
hardware is capable of conveying to our brains. Other animals with
different hardware perceive a different range of frequencies. Some
animals (e.g., bats) even hav
On Feb 5, 2005, at 8:15 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote:
On 05 Feb 2005, at 7:51 PM, Christopher Smith wrote:
But there is more and more evidence pointing to a combination of
nature and nurture, rather than just one of those things, to explain
more and more of human culture.
Not to split hairs, but t
Darcy James Argue wrote:
Hi Chuck,
Well, clearly, we cannot perceive frequencies beyond those that our
hardware is capable of conveying to our brains. Other animals with
different hardware perceive a different range of frequencies. Some
animals (e.g., bats) even have auditory perceptual abilit
Hi Chuck,
Well, clearly, we cannot perceive frequencies beyond those that our
hardware is capable of conveying to our brains. Other animals with
different hardware perceive a different range of frequencies. Some
animals (e.g., bats) even have auditory perceptual abilities we can
only replicat
John Howell wrote:
At 7:13 PM -0500 2/5/05, David W. Fenton wrote:
On 5 Feb 2005 at 10:33, John Howell wrote:
Since male musicians were trained in the church's choir schools--no
girls need apply--the girls who did get a musical education usually
got it in the home, from parents who were musician
Maybe an interesting hypothetical question: does our "hardware" (inner ear bones etc.) react to outside stimuli that bear some relationship to the physical laws that govern the resonant behavior of the bones themselves? Just an idle thought. I'm in no position to explore this.
Chuck
On Feb 5,
On 05 Feb 2005, at 7:51 PM, Christopher Smith wrote:
But there is more and more evidence pointing to a combination of
nature and nurture, rather than just one of those things, to explain
more and more of human culture.
Not to split hairs, but the whole nature vs. nurture thing is a crappy
metaph
On 5 Feb 2005 at 19:54, Darcy James Argue wrote:
> No one is arguing that the Western system of functional harmony is
> "natural" or innate. . . .
Perhaps no one in this particular discussion has explicitly argued
that, but there are lots of people who *do* believe exactly that, and
that body o
That's a straw man, Owain. Of course English isn't "natural" (read:
innate), but the common fundamental grammar (Chomsky's "universal
grammar") that makes human language possible in the first place is
clearly innate, and, like the man says, universal.
No one is arguing that the Western system
On Feb 5, 2005, at 7:20 PM, Owain Sutton wrote:
David W. Fenton wrote:
And when you eliminate the concept of dissonance in the musical text
(i.e., the dissonances are never resolved), then you no longer have a
distinction between the two types of intervals beyond the culturally
defined meanings
On 5 Feb 2005 at 19:48, John Howell wrote:
> At 7:13 PM -0500 2/5/05, David W. Fenton wrote:
> >On 5 Feb 2005 at 10:33, John Howell wrote:
> >
> >> Since male musicians were trained in the church's choir
> >> schools--no girls need apply--the girls who did get a musical
> >> education usually g
At 7:13 PM -0500 2/5/05, David W. Fenton wrote:
On 5 Feb 2005 at 10:33, John Howell wrote:
Since male musicians were trained in the church's choir schools--no
girls need apply--the girls who did get a musical education usually
got it in the home, from parents who were musicians.
Females were als
On Feb 5, 2005, at 7:02 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
On 5 Feb 2005 at 9:56, Christopher Smith wrote:
On Feb 4, 2005, at 7:06 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
On 4 Feb 2005 at 8:23, Christopher Smith wrote:
Right. No dissonance, no consonance. It's not about that any more.
You have correctly understood, gra
David W. Fenton wrote:
And when you eliminate the concept of dissonance in the musical text
(i.e., the dissonances are never resolved), then you no longer have a
distinction between the two types of intervals beyond the culturally
defined meanings the listeners bring to the table.
This is a go
On 5 Feb 2005 at 10:33, John Howell wrote:
> Since male musicians were trained in the church's choir schools--no
> girls need apply--the girls who did get a musical education usually
> got it in the home, from parents who were musicians.
Females were also trained in music in convents, but were of
On 5 Feb 2005 at 9:56, Christopher Smith wrote:
> On Feb 4, 2005, at 7:06 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
>
> > On 4 Feb 2005 at 8:23, Christopher Smith wrote:
> >>
> >> Right. No dissonance, no consonance. It's not about that any more.
> >>
> >> You have correctly understood, grasshopper!
> >
> > Wel
At 11:44 AM -0500 2/4/05, Phil Daley wrote:
This brought to mind a thing that happened when I was in high
school. The HS band director also taught music history which I
didn't take, but my girl friend did. She told me this story:
The teacher said that before 1900 (1950, something like that) th
On Feb 4, 2005, at 9:39 PM, Richard Yates wrote:
This whole field of research has always seemed hopelessly mired in a
priori assumptions and inadequate study design. I consider the people
who claim "scientific" basis for tonality to be the phrenologists of
modern musical scholarship.
And don't get
On Feb 4, 2005, at 7:06 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
On 4 Feb 2005 at 8:23, Christopher Smith wrote:
Right. No dissonance, no consonance. It's not about that any more.
You have correctly understood, grasshopper!
Well, then, you disagree with Andrew, who said (still included in the
quotes above):
On 3
Owain Sutton wrote:
[snip]>
There's a simple response to anybody who recites this kind of stuff -
ask them to explain the equivalence of major and minor triads.
Oh, man, that's New Math stuff -- best done in restaurants, where, as we
learned from Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy, numbers never ad
Owain Sutton wrote:
There have been some pretty intense commentaries about this
tension-release technique being sexually analogous and
gender-specific, and that in recent years, women composers have
emancipated their writing from the build-to-climax model implicit in
harmonic and architectural ten
Glad you mentioned her independently from my post!
The case of Fanny Hensel is a bit more complex, because at least in the
music scene she had quite a bit of fame, and she undoubtedly influenced
others.
Still, the problem clearly is the definition of "major composer". If it
is just a question of fa
Richard Yates wrote:
This whole field of research has always seemed hopelessly mired in a
priori assumptions and inadequate study design. I consider the people
who claim "scientific" basis for tonality to be the phrenologists of
modern musical scholarship.
And don't get me started on the bloody pr
> This whole field of research has always seemed hopelessly mired in a
> priori assumptions and inadequate study design. I consider the people
> who claim "scientific" basis for tonality to be the phrenologists of
> modern musical scholarship.
>
> And don't get me started on the bloody prehistoric
Man, the tension/release goes right back to the first
inhalation/exhalation cycle performed by a human. It's all there,
regardless of gender considerations.
Dean
On Feb 4, 2005, at 5:41 PM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
At 04:25 PM 2/4/05 -0800, Brad Beyenhof wrote:
On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 00:14:19 +
At 04:25 PM 2/4/05 -0800, Brad Beyenhof wrote:
>On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 00:14:19 +, Owain Sutton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>>
>> >>There have been some pretty intense commentaries about this
>> >>tension-release technique being sexually analogous and
>> >>gender-specific, and that in recent years
On 4 Feb 2005 at 20:10, Darcy James Argue wrote:
> On 04 Feb 2005, at 7:18 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
>
> >> . . . However, I would think that anyone,
> >> ever, from anywhere, would agree that a minor second is much more
> >> dissonant than a perfect fifth, and that those two extreme
> >> inter
On 04 Feb 2005, at 7:18 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
. . . However, I would think that anyone,
ever, from anywhere, would agree that a minor second is much more
dissonant than a perfect fifth, and that those two extreme intervals
are absolutely dissonant and absolutely consonant respectively, and
wi
On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 19:22:52 -0500, David W. Fenton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> My experience with students from all over the world have demonstrated
> to me that Andrew is simply WRONG.
[snip]
> ...the Western definition of "consonant" and "dissonant" didn't do
> it for them, since it reversed th
On 4 Feb 2005 at 15:01, Darcy James Argue wrote:
> On 04 Feb 2005, at 2:41 PM, Andrew Stiller wrote:
> >
> > I would agree that there is no hard-and-fast natural boundary
> > between the dissonant and the consonant, and that culture plays a
> > big role in drawing such arbitrary boundaries. Howeve
On 4 Feb 2005 at 16:43, Christopher Smith wrote:
> On Feb 4, 2005, at 2:56 PM, dhbailey wrote:
> >
> > Ah, but was she a "major" composer? That teacher's statement begs
> > the entire issue of what makes a composer a major composer -- is it
> > the total output, is it the number of performances o
On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 00:14:19 +, Owain Sutton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >>There have been some pretty intense commentaries about this
> >>tension-release technique being sexually analogous and
> >>gender-specific, and that in recent years, women composers have
> >>emancipated their writing
On 4 Feb 2005 at 14:41, Andrew Stiller wrote:
[I wrote:]
> >How do you tell the difference between the consonance and the
> >dissonance, then?
> >
> >Without reference to other music or a system of rules not reflected
> >in the musical text where the dissonance is never resolved, the two
> >terms
There have been some pretty intense commentaries about this
tension-release technique being sexually analogous and
gender-specific, and that in recent years, women composers have
emancipated their writing from the build-to-climax model implicit in
harmonic and architectural tension-release, and th
On 4 Feb 2005 at 9:01, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
> At 08:41 AM 2/4/05 -0500, dhbailey wrote:
> >they look for that good old mix of dissonance and consonance
> >where the composer builds the tension masterfully and controls the
> >release, so that the audience feels good at the end.
>
> Let's m
On 4 Feb 2005 at 8:23, Christopher Smith wrote:
> On Feb 3, 2005, at 9:57 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
>
> > On 3 Feb 2005 at 21:51, Christopher Smith wrote:
> >
> >> On Feb 3, 2005, at 8:10 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 3 Feb 2005 at 12:07, Andrew Stiller wrote:
> >>>
> In any even
Christopher Smith wrote:
On Feb 4, 2005, at 2:56 PM, dhbailey wrote:
I have no clue how to define "major composer" anymore -- so I attempt
to steer clear of that title in discussing composers. Who was more
major during their lifetimes, Salieri or Mozart? Who is more major now?
Actually, I thin
On Feb 4, 2005, at 2:56 PM, dhbailey wrote:
Ah, but was she a "major" composer? That teacher's statement begs the
entire issue of what makes a composer a major composer -- is it the
total output, is it the number of performances of a single
masterpiece, is it the number of different organizatio
I never said that dissonance/consonance was the only way to build
tension/release, but it has been a major means to that end
throughout music history.
--
David H. Bailey
Surely you mean *Western* music history--and that only since the 13th
century (yes, there was harmony before that, but it was
Nature or nurture? Nobody knows for sure.
--
David H. Bailey
Of course they do. Tension/release governs the structure of every
known human music and may therefore be safely considered as
biological in its basis. And since music appeals equally to both
sexes, the notion that this is some sort of
I would also question the audience's need to have all dissonance
released in the end to "feel good." There are many, many works
(mostly from the 20th century, granted) that are very successful
without resolving harmonically at the end. Just for one broad
example, it is very common to end big ba
David Bailey:
Tension in the listener? That's not important, huh? Release of
that tension? That's not important either?
Of course they are. But there are numerous, powerful ways to create
and release musical tension without reference to harmony, and highly
dissonated music tends to rely on pr
On 04 Feb 2005, at 2:56 PM, Phil Daley wrote:
This seems obvious to me, growing up in the west.
I wonder if people who grew up in the east see that situation the
same way?
Yes. They do. And there's plenty of research to back this up --
Google away, if you're interested.
- Darcy
-
[EMAIL
Hate to add a post that is simply "me too," but Andrew is 100% correct.
I would add that there are also timbres that are absolutely dissonant
-- although clearly there's a tremendous amount of cultural variability
there as well.
- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY
On 04 Feb 2005, at 2
At 2/4/2005 02:41 PM, Andrew Stiller wrote:
>>How do you tell the difference between the consonance and
the
>>dissonance, then?
>>
>>Without reference to other music or a system of rules not
reflected
>>in the musical text where the dissonance is never resolved, the
two
>>terms are simply meanin
Lee Actor wrote:
I don't know how many times I performed Cécile Chaminade Flute Sonata,
which was written in pre-1900 IIRC, and is Cécile not female name?
Maybe you're thinking of the popular Chaminade Concertino for Flute & Piano
(or Orchestra), written in 1902. And yes, Cecile was a gal.
Ah, bu
>
> I don't know how many times I performed Cécile Chaminade Flute Sonata,
> which was written in pre-1900 IIRC, and is Cécile not female name?
>
Maybe you're thinking of the popular Chaminade Concertino for Flute & Piano
(or Orchestra), written in 1902. And yes, Cecile was a gal.
-Lee
___
How do you tell the difference between the consonance and the
dissonance, then?
Without reference to other music or a system of rules not reflected
in the musical text where the dissonance is never resolved, the two
terms are simply meaningless.
At least, so it seems to *me*.
--
David W. Fenton
And any gender issue would only be a tendency, not a rule. Women are
not a homogenous group any more than men are.
Well put Christopher!! Bravo!!
I do believe that there are gender tendencies in most things in
life...so I guess that those tendencies could also be reflected in
music. But I have
I don't know how many times I performed Cécile Chaminade Flute Sonata,
which was written in pre-1900 IIRC, and is Cécile not female name?
When I first heard Maria Schneider's music, I felt she took Gil Evans'
music to where gender influenced. But when I actually met her, I felt
her music is muc
You know, that's kind of offensive considering all of the real pre-1900
female composers they could have chosen.
- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY
On 04 Feb 2005, at 11:44 AM, Phil Daley wrote:
This brought to mind a thing that happened when I was in high school.
The HS band director
At 2/4/2005 10:41 AM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
>At 10:27 AM 2/4/05 -0500, John Howell wrote:
>>Commentaries? In other words, opinions, right? Let me know when
>>there are some valid, controlled studies available rather than just
>>commentaries. Hey, there might be dissertations waiting to be
At 10:27 AM 2/4/05 -0500, John Howell wrote:
>Commentaries? In other words, opinions, right? Let me know when
>there are some valid, controlled studies available rather than just
>commentaries. Hey, there might be dissertations waiting to be
>written!
But wait, it's okay to have opinions abo
John Howell wrote:
Which is exactly how Hindemith treats it at the beginning of "The
Craft of Musical Composition," giving the theoretical basis for
Neo-Classicism much as Rameau had given the theoretical basis for
major/minor tonality in 1722.
John
And of course, Hindemith's theory is totally
At 9:01 AM -0500 2/4/05, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
At 08:41 AM 2/4/05 -0500, dhbailey wrote:
they look for that good old mix of dissonance and consonance
where the composer builds the tension masterfully and controls the
release, so that the audience feels good at the end.
Let's mix it up some mo
At 3:01 AM -0300 2/4/05, M. Perticone wrote:
hello mr. fenton and listers,
But if there's no dissonance, there's also no consonance.
You can't change the definition of one without altering the
definition of the other, [snip]
of course i understand what you say it's true from a musical syntax
sta
On Feb 4, 2005, at 9:28 AM, dhbailey wrote:
Christopher Smith wrote:
There are other ways to build and release tension than harmonically.
Volume is one. Marcelo Perticone mentioned another couple of very
good examples from conventional repertoire. Schoenberg's opus 16 (I
think that is the right
On Feb 4, 2005, at 9:23 AM, dhbailey wrote:
Schoenberg was a male and he pioneered (or was pivotal, anyway) in the
abandoning of the tension/release model of composition,
Tension-release in HARMONY, not in all ways. And he didn't abandon it
completely anyway, he just made it easier to ignore it
At 09:23 AM 2/4/05 -0500, dhbailey wrote:
>You mean to tell me that men are the only participants in a sexual
>encounter who enjoy it? Come on, now, Dennis. That's not been my
>experience! Why does the sexual analogy of the tension-release have to
>be from a male point of view? I know of sev
Christopher Smith wrote:
On Feb 4, 2005, at 8:41 AM, dhbailey wrote:
Christopher Smith wrote:
On Feb 3, 2005, at 9:57 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
On 3 Feb 2005 at 21:51, Christopher Smith wrote:
On Feb 3, 2005, at 8:10 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
On 3 Feb 2005 at 12:07, Andrew Stiller wrote:
In any e
Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
At 08:41 AM 2/4/05 -0500, dhbailey wrote:
they look for that good old mix of dissonance and consonance
where the composer builds the tension masterfully and controls the
release, so that the audience feels good at the end.
Let's mix it up some more! :)
There have been
On Feb 4, 2005, at 8:41 AM, dhbailey wrote:
Christopher Smith wrote:
On Feb 3, 2005, at 9:57 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
On 3 Feb 2005 at 21:51, Christopher Smith wrote:
On Feb 3, 2005, at 8:10 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
On 3 Feb 2005 at 12:07, Andrew Stiller wrote:
In any event, "emancipation of th
At 08:41 AM 2/4/05 -0500, dhbailey wrote:
>they look for that good old mix of dissonance and consonance
>where the composer builds the tension masterfully and controls the
>release, so that the audience feels good at the end.
Let's mix it up some more! :)
There have been some pretty intense com
Christopher Smith wrote:
On Feb 3, 2005, at 9:57 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
On 3 Feb 2005 at 21:51, Christopher Smith wrote:
On Feb 3, 2005, at 8:10 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
On 3 Feb 2005 at 12:07, Andrew Stiller wrote:
In any event, "emancipation of the dissonance" certainly does not
imply elimi
On Feb 3, 2005, at 9:57 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
On 3 Feb 2005 at 21:51, Christopher Smith wrote:
On Feb 3, 2005, at 8:10 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
On 3 Feb 2005 at 12:07, Andrew Stiller wrote:
In any event, "emancipation of the dissonance" certainly does not
imply elimination of the consonant.
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