Re: [FRIAM] nice quote

2024-10-07 Thread Nicholas Thompson
if they are all roughly on the > same scale? And it might facilitate a conversation? Or not (apparently). > > Glen sometimes suggests that "communication doesn't happen" (poor > paraphrase I'm sure, re-enforcing his point?) and that "what passes for > commun

Re: [FRIAM] nice quote

2024-10-07 Thread Nicholas Thompson
man limbic/neurochemical systems are evolving, their coupling to the institutional contexts we have developed and live in would seem to be a constrainer/driver of those adaptations, as both would be responding to the (much faster?) evolving/adapting technosphere? Mu

Re: [FRIAM] nice quote

2024-10-05 Thread Nicholas Thompson
my take exactly. n On Sat, Oct 5, 2024 at 7:16 PM Jon Zingale wrote: > I suppose my reading of the quote would be something like: > > "When confronted with a problem, humans organize to the beat of canonical > hours into a machine that can scrape, pierce, knock, or shred as most bigly > as poss

Re: [FRIAM] nice quote

2024-10-05 Thread Nicholas Thompson
hought *I* was being "pithy", then you call me out on my > lithp?! ;^) > > The strawman arguments have started coming out, I wonder if anyone > will gen up a steelman? > > - tinman Steve > > > > On 10/5/24 11:26 AM, Nicholas Thompson wrote: > > So in

Re: [FRIAM] nice quote

2024-10-04 Thread Nicholas Thompson
I think that this way of talking about emotions precludes careful thought. First of all, neurologizing emotions is just to hide the pea under the wrong thimble. I don't think paleolithologizig helps much more. Glen is correct that, whatever an emotion is, its inputs and outputs are ontogenetical

Re: [FRIAM] Passing of Carl Tollander

2024-09-09 Thread Nicholas Thompson
Lissaman (Gossamer Albatross fame) was a SFx regular for a while  as were Fred (Unterseher) and Becky though neither were FriAM...who we lost over the last roughly 4 years sorry to go into morbid list-making...  On 9/8/2

Re: [FRIAM] Passing of Carl Tollander

2024-09-09 Thread Nicholas Thompson
Given our pain and regret here, I suggest that we all honor Carl with the Tollander Pledge. I will go first.Dear colleaguesInconsideration of our long association, and the many kindness you have bestowed on me over the years, IF I become aware that I’m likely to die in some near future, I pledge to

Re: [FRIAM] Discoveries and Indistinguishables

2024-09-04 Thread Nicholas Thompson
No. Lurking metaphor,tho, between fungal netowrks and language latices nick On Wed, Sep 4, 2024 at 6:46 PM Jon Zingale wrote: > Ok, seriously, has anyone heard of this guy? In the process of continuing > my work on situating theories of computation within the context of > syntactic categories,

Re: [FRIAM] This makes me think of this list...

2024-08-15 Thread Nicholas Thompson
Roger, I start our reading these sorrs of articles in good faith but always bog down because I deeply don't understand the hankering that would make the project interesting. It always sees to boil down to some desire to determine what in good conscience we can eat. For me, there is nothing that

Re: [FRIAM] When are telic attributions appropriate in physical descriptions?

2024-08-13 Thread Nicholas Thompson
Years ago, a teacher offered me the following universal adage. He who, he who, He who, he who. I have never been the same since. It's nothing if not asinine. N On Tue, Aug 13, 2024 at 1:21 PM Marcus Daniels wrote: > There's a large dog park where I walk my dog most every day. One of the >

Re: [FRIAM] When are telic attributions appropriate in physical descriptions?

2024-08-07 Thread Nicholas Thompson
Could you add William James to dan‘S search field?Sent from my Dumb PhoneOn Aug 7, 2024, at 10:25 PM, Nicholas Thompson wrote:H! I wonder how Glenn would react to our requesting him to play this game. I hate it because it depends so powerfully on the meanings of the words in the question but

Re: [FRIAM] When are telic attributions appropriate in physical descriptions?

2024-08-07 Thread Nicholas Thompson
t;closestPhilosophers": [    {      "name": "Stephen Guerin",      "cosineDistance": "0.00"    },    {      "name": "Aristotle",      "cosineDistance": "0.23"    },    {      "name": "Plato",   

Re: [FRIAM] When are telic attributions appropriate in physical descriptions?

2024-08-06 Thread Nicholas Thompson
sorry I should have said "events" instead of "things". n On Tue, Aug 6, 2024 at 7:15 PM Nicholas Thompson wrote: > A law is not a cause; it is a relation between a class of things caused > and those things' "causer". > > N > > On T

Re: [FRIAM] When are telic attributions appropriate in physical descriptions?

2024-08-06 Thread Nicholas Thompson
A law is not a cause; it is a relation between a class of things caused and those things' "causer". N On Tue, Aug 6, 2024 at 7:12 PM Nicholas Thompson wrote: > Yes. Because the verb require is intenSional and takes a proposition as > its object. Thus, if you graph th

Re: [FRIAM] When are telic attributions appropriate in physical descriptions?

2024-08-06 Thread Nicholas Thompson
5 670-9918 > Santa Fe, NM > > On Tue, Aug 6, 2024, 3:10 PM Nicholas Thompson > wrote: > >> Dear Phellow Phriammers, >> >> Ever since the days of Hywel White (GRHS) I have puzzled over the fact >> that telic language so often appears in physics discussions. I use

[FRIAM] When are telic attributions appropriate in physical descriptions?

2024-08-06 Thread Nicholas Thompson
Dear Phellow Phriammers, Ever since the days of Hywel White (GRHS) I have puzzled over the fact that telic language so often appears in physics discussions. I used to tease Hywel that Psychology must be the Mother of Physics, because he had to use psychological terms to describe the motion of par

Re: [FRIAM] I need some guidance about US corruption law and procedures

2024-08-05 Thread Nicholas Thompson
ome dirt to help get Putin's B*tch Donnie re-coronated. > Call me a liberal conspiracy theorist if you like. > > On Mon, Aug 5, 2024 at 8:59 AM Nicholas Thompson > wrote: > > > > Are we sure Sarbargit has not been hacked? this has a little bit the > feel of Nige

Re: [FRIAM] I need some guidance about US corruption law and procedures

2024-08-05 Thread Nicholas Thompson
Are we sure Sarbargit has not been hacked? this has a little bit the feel of Nigerian Prince appeal? Nick Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology Clark University On Mon, Aug 5, 2024 at 9:49 AM glen wrote: > Maybe? > > https://www.citizensforethics.org/about/contact/

Re: [FRIAM] Self-Consciousness, experience and metaphysics

2024-07-26 Thread Nicholas Thompson
e next sentence to explain those regularities as physiologically determined. Why indulge in careful description of complex processes when a little circular reasoning is so satisfying. N On Tue, Jul 23, 2024 at 12:56 PM Nicholas Thompson wrote: > David's last post so effectively blurs

Re: [FRIAM] Self-Consciousness, experience and metaphysics

2024-07-25 Thread Nicholas Thompson
her > pacemaker put in, she'd been in the ICU for a few days and had ICU delirium. > She played cards with illusory people, kept telling me there was a man behind > me, asking me what the man was doing there, etc. This is a kind of > consciousness, but an incomplete kind. When she

Re: [FRIAM] Self-Consciousness, experience and metaphysics

2024-07-24 Thread Nicholas Thompson
n either direction as the pressure leaks out. But what calls for an explanation in both cases is the violation of the observer's expectations. Thanks, again. Nick On Wed, Jul 24, 2024 at 3:36 PM glen wrote: > > On 7/24/24 11:55, Nicholas Thompson wrote: > > Intuitively, I wa

Re: [FRIAM] Self-Consciousness, experience and metaphysics

2024-07-24 Thread Nicholas Thompson
he wrote "there is no fundamental > difference between man and animals in their ability to feel pleasure and > pain, happiness, and misery" > > https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cv223z15mpmo > > > -J. > > > > Original message > From: Nicho

Re: [FRIAM] Self-Consciousness, experience and metaphysics

2024-07-24 Thread Nicholas Thompson
res the owner, in its own mind, that being with him is > what's important to it. Imaginary though it is that's a pretty advanced > consciousness. > > Frank > > --- > Frank C. Wimberly > 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, > Santa Fe, NM 87505 > > 505 670-9918 > Santa

Re: [FRIAM] consciousness - Don't want Nick's ire, so creating new thread

2024-07-24 Thread Nicholas Thompson
No ire; you rightly predict that physiologizing is not what I am about on that other thread. Thank you for your discretion. n On Wed, Jul 24, 2024 at 11:33 AM Prof David West wrote: > Consciousness exists because of hallucinogens? > > https://www.lillo.org.ar/journals/index.php/lilloa/article/

Re: [FRIAM] Self-Consciousness, experience and metaphysics

2024-07-24 Thread Nicholas Thompson
Glen and DaveW and all, Ok, so I have cc'd in the last correspondence that occurred just before our discussion about who and what is conscious [ness} got forked up. That included comments from DaveW,and Glen. Again, thank you, for helping me along here. I now see that we need some sort of a work

Re: [FRIAM] Self-Consciousness, experience and metaphysics

2024-07-24 Thread Nicholas Thompson
milar to me: it is like focusing on a fascinating phenomenon but at a > place before it gets interesting. > > > If this comment bends the thread too much then please ignore it :-) > > > J. > > > > Original message > From: Nicholas Thompson >

[FRIAM] Self-Consciousness, experience and metaphysics

2024-07-23 Thread Nicholas Thompson
David's last post so effectively blurs the lines between these two that I am going to give up, for the moment, on my attempt to keep them straight. Intuition tells me that Dave's post falls on one side of the line, and Glen's on the other, but I have to go shopping. I am still hoping to hear ex

Re: [FRIAM] New Mexican's Sunday's story on education proficiency

2024-07-22 Thread Nicholas Thompson
Hi Jon, As a Peircean, I neverdoubted it for a minute. A true ;roposition is one upon which we will agree in the very long run. A real thing is any concept about which a true proposition can be uttered. I think that makes numbers, and right triangles real given that 3^2 + 4^2 = 5^2 and t

Re: [FRIAM] Man Probes Consciousness: Consciousness Probes Back (was Re: Does Dusty Love Dave, and VV)

2024-07-20 Thread Nicholas Thompson
David, and all,I appreciate the work you have gone to to lay out our program in your two messages. I feel like we have developed some understandings that I can lean on in the future. I’m not so clear concerning what our common understanding of self-consciousness is. Might need some more anecdotes t

Re: [FRIAM] Does Dusty Love Dave, and VV.

2024-07-19 Thread Nicholas Thompson
experience references a place-from-which. To that extent, an experience is necessarily idiosyncratic.If you have had an experience with a dragon that you think bears on whether dragons are conscious or not, I want to hear it. Nick On Fri, Jul 19, 2024 at 5:35 PM Nicholas Thompson wrote: &g

Re: [FRIAM] Does Dusty Love Dave, and VV.

2024-07-19 Thread Nicholas Thompson
oly Self???) and excluded; making consensus of any kind > impossible. > > davew > > > On Fri, Jul 19, 2024, at 11:48 AM, Nicholas Thompson wrote: > > Hi, everybody. We are veering into meta again. Ugh. > > Where Nick is trying to get is a method for him and David and

Re: [FRIAM] Does Dusty Love Dave, and VV.

2024-07-19 Thread Nicholas Thompson
Oh, and ... I think you guys are quibbling. There is way to say two objects are different, without first asserting that they are in some respect the same. Time to send a deligation to take a way my keyboard? Nick On Fri, Jul 19, 2024 at 12:14 PM steve smith wrote: > Dave - > > I do have lot

Re: [FRIAM] Does Dusty Love Dave, and VV.

2024-07-19 Thread Nicholas Thompson
mulation and emulation, which > > means eliminating inter-individual contexts to the extent we can. > > > > [2] These are not anthropomorphic. I have no idea or projection onto > > what he's thinking when he does these things. However, I do engage in > > anth

Re: [FRIAM] Does Dusty Love Dave, and VV.

2024-07-18 Thread Nicholas Thompson
y > 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, > Santa Fe, NM 87505 > > 505 670-9918 > Santa Fe, NM > > On Thu, Jul 18, 2024, 7:11 PM Nicholas Thompson > wrote: > >> All, >> >> I want to move things along here, but not sure movement would be. Our >> shared anecdotes

Re: [FRIAM] Does Dusty Love Dave, and VV.

2024-07-18 Thread Nicholas Thompson
to think what sort of anecdote would elicit such an experience. N On Thu, Jul 18, 2024 at 8:55 PM Nicholas Thompson wrote: > > > On Thu, Jul 18, 2024 at 8:53 PM Nicholas Thompson > wrote: > >> Have you ever read The Story of a Grizzly by Ernest Thompson Seton (no >&

Re: [FRIAM] Does Dusty Love Dave, and VV.

2024-07-18 Thread Nicholas Thompson
On Thu, Jul 18, 2024 at 8:53 PM Nicholas Thompson wrote: > Have you ever read The Story of a Grizzly by Ernest Thompson Seton (no > rel)? > > On Thu, Jul 18, 2024 at 1:13 PM steve smith wrote: > >> Nick, et alii behavioristae - >> >> We have been using "se

Re: [FRIAM] Does Dusty Love Dave, and VV.

2024-07-18 Thread Nicholas Thompson
r houseplants, and they do seem to thrive compared to when I am in charge > of their water-offerings. I look forward to little fishies nibbling on > their roots while offering them nitrogen-rich nutrients in the way all > animals do. > > The little (and middle) fishies dance like someon

Re: [FRIAM] Does Dusty Love Dave, and VV.

2024-07-18 Thread Nicholas Thompson
heard, and to wait, indefinitely, for > explicit invitations. I have no idea about Jackson's early training. > > davew > > > > > On Wed, Jul 17, 2024, at 10:18 AM, Nicholas Thompson wrote: > > David, and all. > > I am trying to keep this thread as clean

Re: [FRIAM] Why the Mystery of Consciousness Is Deeper Than We Thought

2024-07-17 Thread Nicholas Thompson
Stephen, Thank you for prompting me to respond to Dan’s scaling questionaire. I tried to when I first received it, but quit because I could not recognize my own thinking in most of the alternatives. But you have asked me to be a good sport, so here I am. If you offer me, as in Q1 a choice be

Re: [FRIAM] Does Dusty Love Dave, and VV.

2024-07-17 Thread Nicholas Thompson
David, and all. I am trying to keep this thread as clean of the meta as I can. So I will answer your general critique on the other thread. Suffice it to say here that behaviorism is way in the rear view mirror at this point and I certainly am not trying to teach it. Suffice it to say, also, I

Re: [FRIAM] Does Dusty Love Dave, and VV.

2024-07-17 Thread Nicholas Thompson
Steve, Thank you. The details with the lizard are to me suggestive of consciousness. Experiments would be essential to nail all these things down,l but these anecdotes are sufficient to explicate what we mean by it It's ok if the lizard is conscious yet incapable of love, just so long as you ag

Re: [FRIAM] Why the Mystery of Consciousness Is Deeper Than We Thought

2024-07-16 Thread Nicholas Thompson
of hatred since > then. I dread seeing that dog. “I’m a gonna beat on Jimmy’s head today…” > > > > *From:* Friam *On Behalf Of *Nicholas Thompson > *Sent:* Tuesday, July 16, 2024 12:19 PM > *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group < > friam@redfis

Re: [FRIAM] Why the Mystery of Consciousness Is Deeper Than We Thought

2024-07-16 Thread Nicholas Thompson
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Origin_of_Consciousness_in_the_Breakdown_of_the_Bicameral_Mind > > > -J. > > > > Original message > From: Nicholas Thompson > Date: 7/16/24 6:59 PM (GMT+01:00) > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee

Re: [FRIAM] Why the Mystery of Consciousness Is Deeper Than We Thought

2024-07-16 Thread Nicholas Thompson
pc > > > > *From:* Friam *On Behalf Of *Nicholas Thompson > *Sent:* Tuesday, July 16, 2024 10:21 AM > *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group < > friam@redfish.com> > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Why the Mystery of Consciousness Is Deeper Than We > Thought

Re: [FRIAM] Why the Mystery of Consciousness Is Deeper Than We Thought

2024-07-16 Thread Nicholas Thompson
o be held when driving. > > “Offer” means she repeatedly taps me with it until I hold it, then she > licks me once on the cheek. > > > > *From:* Friam *On Behalf Of *Nicholas Thompson > *Sent:* Tuesday, July 16, 2024 10:08 AM > *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexit

Re: [FRIAM] Why the Mystery of Consciousness Is Deeper Than We Thought

2024-07-16 Thread Nicholas Thompson
hen I > realized what she really wanted: Move and give her the space.She did > the same thing with her male sibling (a dog), and he would get rattled and > walk away. > > > > *From:* Friam *On Behalf Of *Nicholas Thompson > *Sent:* Tuesday, July 16, 2024 9:43 AM >

Re: [FRIAM] Why the Mystery of Consciousness Is Deeper Than We Thought

2024-07-16 Thread Nicholas Thompson
s we know > our pets well and give them names, because they are our buddies and > companions. In principle we should all be vegetarians, but I must admit > occasionally I like to eat a schnitzel as well. > > -J. > > > Original message > From: Nichol

Re: [FRIAM] Why the Mystery of Consciousness Is Deeper Than We Thought

2024-07-16 Thread Nicholas Thompson
Hi, All, Some;body on this thread suggested that I read the recent article on whale communication research in Hah-Vud Mag. It was interesting, but it left me screaming and beating the magazine with my fists in many places. If anybody would like to chat about it, I am here for that. Two comment

Re: [FRIAM] Does Dusty Love Dave, and VV.

2024-07-15 Thread Nicholas Thompson
k or paw at the > mirror. For months, as a youngster, she would walk by the mirror and be > startled by the movement. Now she ignores it. If she sees me do > something in the mirror, like put down an iPad, she tips her back to look > at me to look at me – as if to see if anything i

Re: [FRIAM] Why the Mystery of Consciousness Is Deeper Than We Thought

2024-07-15 Thread Nicholas Thompson
og as having behaviors designed to convey pleasure and pain. etc, etc. NIck On Mon, Jul 15, 2024 at 6:26 PM Nicholas Thompson wrote: > Hi, Jochen, > > I haven't read the paper, so grain of salt, here. Anybody who has dealt > with a bittersweet vine knows that plants can do plenty.

Re: [FRIAM] Why the Mystery of Consciousness Is Deeper Than We Thought

2024-07-15 Thread Nicholas Thompson
5c9cda1714b1c44707d > > I found a reference to the paper in the book "Dancing Cockatoos and the > Dead Man Test: How Behavior Evolves and Why It Matters" from Marlene Zuk > https://wwnorton.com/books/dancing-cockatoos-and-the-dead-man-test > > -J. > > >

Re: [FRIAM] Does Dusty Love Dave, and VV.

2024-07-15 Thread Nicholas Thompson
PM > *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group < > friam@redfish.com> > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Does Dusty Love Dave, and VV. > > > > On Mon, Jul 15, 2024 at 10:54 AM Nicholas Thompson < > thompnicks...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Here is an example If

Re: [FRIAM] Does Dusty Love Dave, and VV.

2024-07-15 Thread Nicholas Thompson
e honest, I have no idea where it comes > out. > > Nick > > On Fri, Jul 12, 2024 at 12:59 PM Nicholas Thompson < > thompnicks...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> [Please, Friammers,, if you join this discussion, stay close to this or >> other closely related down-to-

Re: [FRIAM] Does Dusty Love Dave, and VV.

2024-07-15 Thread Nicholas Thompson
particiants are consciouus of one another. So, if I am correct about that, could we move on to dis cuss the second pair, whether each of the two is conscious of themself. This is really truicky and, to be honest, I have no idea where it comes out. Nick On Fri, Jul 12, 2024 at 12:59 PM Nicholas

Re: [FRIAM] Does Dusty Love Dave, and VV.

2024-07-13 Thread Nicholas Thompson
Oh, Barry. I forgot to ask you the threshold question. Do you agree that attempting to extend the zone of honest agreement is a worthy goal. On Sat, Jul 13, 2024 at 3:00 PM Nicholas Thompson wrote: > Without going backward in my conversation, you and I could add this new > data to th

Re: [FRIAM] Does Dusty Love Dave, and VV.

2024-07-13 Thread Nicholas Thompson
a walk, > off leash, in the arroyo and slipped and fell on the icy path. When she > opened her eyes a few seconds later, Dusty had his nose right up against > her face. > > -- > > On 12 Jul 2024, at 12:59, Nicholas Thompson wrote: > > [Please, Friammers,, if you join

Re: [FRIAM] Does Dusty Love Dave, and VV.

2024-07-13 Thread Nicholas Thompson
own, my wife took him on a walk, > off leash, in the arroyo and slipped and fell on the icy path. When she > opened her eyes a few seconds later, Dusty had his nose right up against > her face. > > -- > > On 12 Jul 2024, at 12:59, Nicholas Thompson wrote: > > [Please, Fr

Re: [FRIAM] Why the Mystery of Consciousness Is Deeper Than We Thought

2024-07-12 Thread Nicholas Thompson
e >> concept of mind" on page 198 >> >> "‘I’, in my use of it, always indicates me and only indicates me. ‘You’, >> ‘she’ and ‘they’ indicate different people at different times. ‘I’ is like >> my ownshadow; I can never get away from it, as I can get away from your

Re: [FRIAM] Does Dusty Love Dave, and VV.

2024-07-12 Thread Nicholas Thompson
Oh, and. do you now agree that the relation is loving, or, what additional coditions would you care to add to make that attribution a comfortable one for you. N On Fri, Jul 12, 2024 at 12:59 PM Nicholas Thompson wrote: > [Please, Friammers,, if you join this discussion, stay close to this

Re: [FRIAM] Is consciousness a mystery? (used to be "mystery...deeper".T

2024-07-12 Thread Nicholas Thompson
do believe my dogs (and your cat if > you have one) are conscious. > > > > I have not experienced a Vulcan Mind-Meld with either of my dogs, so I > cannot say with certainty they are conscious—I must infer it from > observations: > > 1- interactions with other dogs would seem to

Re: [FRIAM] Is consciousness a mystery? (used to be "mystery...deeper".T

2024-07-12 Thread Nicholas Thompson
ast interactions and do not require the same butt-sniffing protocol with > dogs they have met at the park frequently. Also they seem to remember who > plays with who and who doesn't. "That ball is not mine, this one is." > 2-they modify their behavior depending on the tenor, sha

Re: [FRIAM] Is consciousness a mystery? (used to be "mystery...deeper".T

2024-07-11 Thread Nicholas Thompson
f barks, ear positions, tail wagging differences, by the other >>>> dogs; e.g., "that's enough." >>>> 3-They do not communicate to me in English, but seem to accept >>>> communication from me in that language—not trained responses to commands, >>>

Re: [FRIAM] Is consciousness a mystery? (used to be "mystery...deeper".T

2024-07-11 Thread Nicholas Thompson
sciousness**, *but > that is an entirely different topic. > > davew > > > On Tue, Jul 9, 2024, at 5:37 PM, Nicholas Thompson wrote: > > Frank > > What you laid out is an abduction,,isn't it?; I don[t think I am doing > that in either of my syllogisms. But I a

[FRIAM] Is consciousness a mystery? (used to be "mystery...deeper".T

2024-07-09 Thread Nicholas Thompson
While I find all the ancillary considerations raised on the original thread extremely interesting, I would like to reopen the discussion of Conscious as a Mystery and ask that those that join it stay close to the question of what consciousness is and how we know it when we see it. Baby Steps. W

Re: [FRIAM] Why the Mystery of Consciousness Is Deeper Than We Thought

2024-07-08 Thread Nicholas Thompson
ndent from the old > one. This allows new dimensions of interactions. The connections between > worlds matter. A label is a simple connection between a word in one world > and an class of objects in another. A metaphor is a more complex connection > between an abstract idea and a compo

Re: [FRIAM] Why the Mystery of Consciousness Is Deeper Than We Thought

2024-07-08 Thread Nicholas Thompson
f software running on a computer as being embodied? >> >> --- >> Frank C. Wimberly >> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, >> Santa Fe, NM 87505 >> >> 505 670-9918 >> Santa Fe, NM >> >> On Sun, Jul 7, 2024, 9:12 AM Nicholas Thompson >> wrote: &

Re: [FRIAM] Why the Mystery of Consciousness Is Deeper Than We Thought

2024-07-07 Thread Nicholas Thompson
nvironment. These two things are > necessary: the physical world of bodies, and the mental world of language. > When both collide in the same spot we can get consciousness. > > -J. > > > Original message > From: Nicholas Thompson > Date: 7/6/24 5:05 AM

Re: [FRIAM] Why the Mystery of Consciousness Is Deeper Than We Thought

2024-07-05 Thread Nicholas Thompson
is processed in complex ways, ad infinitum like the orbits of a > strange attractor. > > https://chaoticatmospheres.com/mathrules-strange-attractors > > > -J. > > > > Original message > From: Nicholas Thompson > Date: 7/5/24 6:56 PM (GMT+01:00)

Re: [FRIAM] Why the Mystery of Consciousness Is Deeper Than We Thought

2024-07-05 Thread Nicholas Thompson
aware of > oneself as an actor in an environment requires understanding of language > which only humans have ( and LLMs now ) > > https://www.quantamagazine.org/insects-and-other-animals-have-consciousness-experts-declare-20240419/ > > -J. > > > Original message

Re: [FRIAM] Why the Mystery of Consciousness Is Deeper Than We Thought

2024-07-04 Thread Nicholas Thompson
Jochen, *I think the first step in any conversation is to decide whether your cat is conscious. If so, why do you think so; if not, likewise. I had a facinnationg conversation with GBT about whether he was conscious and he denied it "hotly", which, of course, met one of his criteria for consc

Re: [FRIAM] An Open Letter to Joe Biden

2024-07-04 Thread Nicholas Thompson
Aw, Steve . Get those hips done! I waited to long to do mine. NIck On Thu, Jul 4, 2024 at 12:02 AM steve smith wrote: > Nick - > > > God, Steve, am I 20 years older than you But you're so OLD1 > > I know man. > > I have an 83 year old buddy who I share a huge number of strange > coincid

Re: [FRIAM] An Open Letter to Joe Biden

2024-07-03 Thread Nicholas Thompson
God, Steve, am I 20 years older than you But you're so OLD1 i am grateful for your kind words, particularly coming from one of the best noodlers in the business. n On Wed, Jul 3, 2024 at 6:46 PM steve smith wrote: > Nick - > > Your Magellanic voyage from desk to couch reminds me too muc

Re: [FRIAM] An Open Letter to Joe Biden

2024-07-03 Thread Nicholas Thompson
Thkanks, Tom. Will do tmmrw. N On Wed, Jul 3, 2024 at 4:34 PM Tom Johnson wrote: > Nick- > Send this to My View at the New Mexican. > Tom > > === > Tom Johnson > Inst. for Analytic Journalism > Santa Fe, New Mexico > 505-577-6482 > === > > On Wed, Jul 3,

Re: [FRIAM] the world is watching us...

2024-06-29 Thread Nicholas Thompson
Oh, Jochen, So much for American Exceptionalism. We rode to greatness on the back of slavery, immigration, expropriation, and genocide, and now, here we are, a geriatric oligarchy, like everybody else. Jesus Wept, n On Sat, Jun 29, 2024 at 4:45 AM Jochen Fromm wrote: > In Germany politicians

Re: [FRIAM] AI art

2024-06-24 Thread Nicholas Thompson
Jon, I will teach you chess (};-)] I have played the game for 81 years. I play it the way I do most things in my life, sloppily and with inordinate reflection. For me, the game is a conversation about the accumulation and exercise of power That conversation can go on at any level and is best

Re: [FRIAM] "Weather line" on 14

2024-06-23 Thread Nicholas Thompson
uh, Sorvig. Where have you gone, Kim, when I need someone to pronounce "Yggdrasil. On Sun, Jun 23, 2024 at 10:06 AM Nicholas Thompson wrote: > Thank you, Eric. > > I keep trying to engage Kim Sordahl in this conversation because he has an > architectual theory concerni

Re: [FRIAM] "Weather line" on 14

2024-06-23 Thread Nicholas Thompson
ak should be in line with the other two. This is where Doug Roberts arises from his grave and dope slaps me with his mighty paws! Thanks for your patience, all. N On Sun, Jun 23, 2024 at 10:06 AM Nicholas Thompson wrote: > Thank you, Eric. > > I keep trying to engage Kim Sordahl in t

Re: [FRIAM] "Weather line" on 14

2024-06-23 Thread Nicholas Thompson
t; > Of course, continental crustal rock is not the same as seabed basalts > (which are probably much more uniform), but even so, these are geologically > fairly small features we are talking about. > > Eric > > > > > On Jun 23, 2024, at 12:21 PM, Nicholas Thompson >

[FRIAM] And the monsoon season has yettobegin!!!!!

2024-06-22 Thread Nicholas Thompson
-. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom https://bit.ly/virtualfriam to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-c

[FRIAM] Dewpoint Tracker

2024-06-22 Thread Nicholas Thompson
https://www.weather.gov/abq/dewpointtracker Nota Bene n -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom https://bit.ly/virtualfriam to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mail

Re: [FRIAM] "Weather line" on 14

2024-06-21 Thread Nicholas Thompson
Dear Stephen, Thank you for prompting me to respond to this inquiry. I was having some trouble getting the image to behave on my computer, and so was reluctant to wade in. Indeed, just as nature abhors vacuums, she abhors straight lines, and so any line as straight as this one requires a specia

[FRIAM] GOES-East - Sector view: Northeast - GeoColor - NOAA / NESDIS / STAR

2024-06-20 Thread Nicholas Thompson
https://www.star.nesdis.noaa.gov/GOES/sector_band.php?sat=G16§or=ne&band=GEOCOLOR&length=24 Thunderstorms forming over the NE on a hot summer afternoon. Notice that each storm seems to start from a point source that moves much less than the clouds formed by the storm itself. N -. --- - / ...-

Re: [FRIAM] Haboob in southern NM / Mexico

2024-06-20 Thread Nicholas Thompson
Oh, and: Here's another glossary. http://www.theweatherprediction.com/keywords/ It still doesn't contain "haboob". On Thu, Jun 20, 2024 at 1:05 AM Stephen Guerin wrote: > NIck, > > Check out this Haboob moving across southern NM / northern Mexico > satellite animation: > https://guerin

Re: [FRIAM] Haboob in southern NM / Mexico

2024-06-20 Thread Nicholas Thompson
Thanks, Stephen, An awesome video. Haboob was a new one to me, so it got me looking up some terminology relating to outflow boundaries. Thunderstorms lift an enormous amount of stuff and when the storm collapses, a lot of it simply falls down, displacing the air at the surface, and forcing it

[FRIAM] The Dry Line--a disclaimer

2024-06-14 Thread Nicholas Thompson
Please to know that the moisture now streaming into Santa FE has NOTHING to do with The Dry Line. Management shares your frustration with the unwarranted intrusion of this Pacific moisture into our conversation about the westward intrusion of Gulf of Mexico moisture. Both, of course contribute

Re: [FRIAM] what is a poor behaviorist (Nick) supposed to do?

2024-06-12 Thread Nicholas Thompson
Thanks Glen for tucking in. This weather thing (and the garden thing) are eating up all my time. I think I agree with you. Let that be a lesson to you. Nick On Wed, Jun 12, 2024 at 10:21 AM glen wrote: > Although the Atlantic article has little to do with the C-word, I was > happy to find m

Re: [FRIAM] what is a poor behaviorist (Nick) supposed to do?

2024-06-11 Thread Nicholas Thompson
As Clinton famously said, it depends upon what you mean by conscious. For this poor Behaviorist, Consciousness is behaving in relation to some feature of your world. Gutta run Certainly birds, and maybe plants. N On Tue, Jun 11, 2024 at 3:59 PM Prof David West wrote: > animals are conscious?

Re: [FRIAM] The Dry line.

2024-06-10 Thread Nicholas Thompson
altime.earth/incidents/SantaFeStorm_20240609/LosAlamos1_2024_161_13-2024_162_0.mp4> >>- Santa Fe looking northeast toward Aspen Vista >> >> <https://playground.realtime.earth/incidents/SantaFeStorm_20240609/TreeHouse_2024_161_13-2024_162_0.mp4> >> >> >>

Re: [FRIAM] Unpleasant dreams

2024-06-04 Thread Nicholas Thompson
Another question: Decorticate animals may writhe and pass and even groan. Are they dreaming? n On Tue, Jun 4, 2024 at 1:11 PM Nicholas Thompson wrote: > Qyestions about dreams; > > When do dreams happen. do they happen when we are asleep, or are they > memories generated by the

Re: [FRIAM] Unpleasant dreams

2024-06-04 Thread Nicholas Thompson
Qyestions about dreams; When do dreams happen. do they happen when we are asleep, or are they memories generated by the flooding of the brain with stimulation about awakening? Is dreaminess a specific physiological state: For instance, if you set your self the task of writing a story immediatel

Re: [FRIAM] Objective Reality Doesn’t Exist. We’ve Known This for a Century. It’s Time to Embrace It and Move On. | by Casper Wilstrup | Machine Consciousness | Medium

2024-06-03 Thread Nicholas Thompson
of long ago, you are probably reasonably > accurate. > > However, that sense of "democracy" no longer exists, at least here in the > US. Regardless of how one votes, the result is absolutely and completely > *assigning > X the job of determining our common reality*. > > dav

Re: [FRIAM] Come please

2024-05-31 Thread Nicholas Thompson
Frank, you definitely deserve better. But I am two thousand miles away. N From: Friam on behalf of Frank Wimberly Sent: Friday, May 31, 2024 9:37 AM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: [FRIAM] Come please I'm at Downtown Subscript

Re: [FRIAM] Objective Reality Doesn’t Exist. We’ve Known This for a Century. It’s Time to Embrace It and Move On. | by Casper Wilstrup | Machine Consciousness | Medium

2024-05-31 Thread Nicholas Thompson
ist. We’ve Known This for a Century. It’s Time to Embrace It and Move On. | by Casper Wilstrup | Machine Consciousness | Medium It exists in my mind. Joke. --- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505 505 670-9918 Santa Fe, NM On Fri, May 31, 2024, 8:59 AM Nichola

[FRIAM] Objective Reality Doesn’t Exist. We’ve Known This for a Century. It’s Time to Embrace It and Move On. | by Casper Wilstrup | Machine Consciousness | Medium

2024-05-31 Thread Nicholas Thompson
This (see below) got served up to me out of the blue this morning. The way it's put here, Frank and Bruce might actually agree with it. Still, it's straight Peirce. I have no idea who the author is; do any of you? Here's crucial passage. Our understanding of reality needs a complete overhaul

Re: [FRIAM] Downtown Subscription?

2024-05-29 Thread Nicholas Thompson
Greetings from the other side of the dry line. my son informs me that there is a major remodeling going on, which will unify the coffee house with the bookstore. My guess is that you will be going to DS for a time. On Fri, May 24, 2024 at 11:15 AM Frank Wimberly wrote: > I am in the St John's co

Re: [FRIAM] Nick: Los Alamos Skywarn Meeting thurs at 2p

2024-05-21 Thread Nicholas Thompson
In ma. Sorry. Kind offer. N On Tue, May 21, 2024 at 8:53 AM Stephen Guerin wrote: > Nick, > > I bet you could make a friend at this meeting. I can drive. > > > https://www.losalamosnm.us/News-articles/County-invites-community-to-become-Skywarn-Storm-Spotters > > We might be able to stop by Stev

Re: [FRIAM] WeatherNerdAlert -- Monsoonish?

2024-05-16 Thread Nicholas Thompson
.com > > stephengue...@fas.harvard.edu > Harvard Visualization Research and Teaching Lab > <https://hwpi.harvard.edu/eps-visualization-research-laboratory/home> > > mobile: (505)577-5828 > > > On Thu, May 16, 2024 at 4:03 PM Nicholas Thompson > wrote: > >>

Re: [FRIAM] WeatherNerdAlert -- Monsoonish?

2024-05-16 Thread Nicholas Thompson
5)577-5828On Thu, May 16, 2024 at 12:17 PM Nicholas Thompson <thompnicks...@gmail.com> wrote: Note rotation:https://www.weather.gov/abq/ -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Fridays 9a-12p Friday St.

Re: [FRIAM] Potential Vorticity and the Dynamic Tropopause

2024-05-16 Thread Nicholas Thompson
e of the human > intelligence of "LLM Tutors" and "Prompt Engineers." Both are six-figure > salary professions that arose in the last year. > > davew > (personal note: I sorely miss the conversations we once enjoyed, both in > person in Santa Fe and online.) > > On T

Re: [FRIAM] Potential Vorticity and the Dynamic Tropopause

2024-05-14 Thread Nicholas Thompson
s. > > ### Conclusion > > Understanding the parallels between Bénard cell dynamics and atmospheric > conditions through potential vorticity and isentropic surfaces not only > illustrates universal fluid dynamics principles but also enhances > meteorological predictions of conve

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