Hi Clemment.
I'm afraid having played fighting games visually, and also (after I'd heard
about beat em ups sound access), turning off the monitor and trying them
without I disagree on a sighted person learning move properties being
identical to a blind person learning it's sound.
When
Clement for that matter I agree.
Just because a thing is not accessible and takes more effort to do doesn't
equate to don't do that thing
To take a very simple example, walking around, mobility and , learning a
route is far more difficult than what a sighted person has to do. in that
sense
Dark,
I've been watching this discussion with interest, and I agree with both
sides here. however I once again would like to point out your excessive use
of exclamation points where they do not belong is quite annoying. you don't
need to emphasize everything with an exclamation point. all this
Yohandi, I use exclamations to emphasize words, not to shout or irritate.
For instance suppose someone claimed that Superliam was a 3D game because
several levels take place on elivated locations such as a volcano.
I would want to answer something like
that! is not how 3D works, it doesn't
Dark,
It's still very annoying. at least I find it so. When you read a book, you
don't see the author getting their point across by putting tons of
exclamations all over the place do you? I've never seen anyone do that so
excessively. as to your Super Liam example. putting that exclamation
Well Yohandi, such isn't my intention, and actually in a lot of philosophy
books and essays where the structure of your sentences can make a huge
difference to the quality of your argument, there are! indeed such markers
to show emphasis, even if it's not done in works of fiction as much.
so,
Funny, because I find those combos quite easy to do. While I agree that the
sound gives you less information that lets you keep track of your opponent,
you have to do that in your head. If I start a match, I keep in mind exactly
what movements I make and approximately how far I am from the
Hi clemment.
On the issue of information and practice, I'm afraid you've missed my point
rather.
My point is not that a blind person cannot! learn to do combos, get a
feeling for distance etc, quite obviously people can. it is that lacking the
visual information which is available on screen
Clement, you've just put into words something that's been on my mind for a while
spacial awareness is a verylarge factor in modern fighting games
especially now with the upgrades in sound.
another example is in mk, i try to go the whole fight without using
scorpion's spear as then it will help me
No no, I do get your point. What I was merely pointing out is that it isn't
nearly as hard as you seem to think it is. This isn't just all based on
assumptions, this is based on what I hear from sighted players who I've
talked to, ones who've accepted that I'm blind and still am a halfway
Hi clemment.
It might be that you have unusual spacial abilities, but I'm afraid I still
disagree on the inequities of information. Obviously, it's something you can
practice and improve at to the point where it is less trouble, but it is the
fact that it's any trouble at all! that makes the
But that's just it... it isn't any trouble. And you make it sound like we're
the only ones who read faqs when in fact, we aren't. Sighted gamers, once
again, do as much looking up as we do... this is why faqs are there. Command
lists only give special moves and supers, they do not list combos
Hi Clemment.
I am not saying you personally cannot play such games, or that sighted
people do not use faqs.
i am saying that the amount of time and trouble it takes a sighted user,
from the day he/she gets the game out of the box to the point of acquiring a
certain loevel of proficiency at
Not always. In fact, not at all in most of the older games. In older games
that's exactly why there were FAQ's, because you either had to buy a
separate strategy guide in addition to the game, or do a ton of
experimentation. In the newer games they often include movelists, but they
aren't
I will agree there. Though I disagree about knowledge of the game itself...
the first day I picked up soul calibur five I brought it home, unpacked it,
and leapt right into story mode... and knew half the moves already. Why?
Because movelists float around the internet well before the game is
Sorry again forthe double post, but I do have to agree that tutorials, while
possibly an issue, aren't really necessary... and as to having no idea
what's going on, in most fighting games... that isn't a problem when the
name of the move is being shouted so loud. Gotta love anime for that.
Hi.
I'm afraid we are probably at an empass here.
I myself just feel that however good you are, the larning curve is just far
steeper for a blind person that a sighted person, simply because you lack
all relevant information, and until! that information is present in the
game, from the
I was just going to say... this discussion has probably run its course. As
friends must do, I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.
But before we wrap up... here's my question. If you were to make a fighting
game that was purely audio-based, what would you add? Besides
Hi Dan.
While that's absolutely fine and a great creddit to your skills of
persistance and memorization, I'm afraid that as far as myself and
audiogames.net are officially concerned, games which require memorization of
a menue or unusual learning of in game sounds, beatemups included, are not
Hi Dark,
Yes, exactly. that's a point I've been trying to make for quite a
while now. I want some of the mainstrfeam game players to use the term
playable rather than accessible when talking about mainstream games
like Mortal Kombat or Street Fighter etc because technically we can
play them with
Hi Tom.
This is actually a general problem with the defifnition of accessibility,
rather than a specifically game related matter.
commonly, governments, individuals and institutions use the word
accessible to mean have access to irrispective of the amount of trouble,
effort or inconvenience
Hi Dark,
Well, I don't know about your thesis, but I agree that the definition
of accessibility is flawed. Most people use the word not thinking
about what it truly means in terms of equal effort to access and use
the same thing as a non-disabled person. It requires a slightly higher
intellectual
Hi Tom.
this is actually good to knowk, sinse it means the idea I'm writing about in
my thesis makes sense.
My concern with the confusion over accessibilityk, is that many institutions
or individuals aimed! at disabled people do not considder this.
To use an example from my thesis, I for
Another suggestion came into my head as I was reading your email. How about
the ability to create a group of powerful shields in a dome like structure
and hide in it? This can be overwhelmingly useful for you because you can
prepare to cast a spell while your opponent is attempting to
Hi dark
i totally agree with your points.
I think the main thing i was trying to get across was that there are
games for the wii and such which are playable, as I'd never say that
mainstream games are fully accessible, I simply used accessible in a
loose sense, similar to how its normally used a
sorry for the double mail, but heck i'd give anything not to have to
memorise menus, as that's one of the things stopping me from getting
wwe 12 as the menus are so much more extensive especially with the new
universe mode added.
On 2/6/12, dan cook dan.sc...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi dark
i totally
Hi Dan, fair enough.
perhaps though in this case, using the word accessible isn't appropriate,
say rather such games are playable with not too great an effort.
Beware the grue!
dark.
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I agree, that is what has stopped me buying a wii fulstop!
there are in fact a hole bunch of low vision games, starting with the
castlevania series, not to mention mega man battle network, that would be
totally playable from a vision perspective but just have too much radnomly
occurring
So technically, a game like Bokura no Dabiouken is not accessible because
you obviously have to learn the menus if you are not a Japanese speaker.
Also, the story line is completely absent for someone who speaks any
language other than Japanese. Yes, there is an English patch, however it is
Hi clemment.
Interesting questions, I don't take them as antagonistic, remember that
debating such issues is what I spend a lot of my time doing.
On the matter of menues, they may not take much memorization when your used
to them but they still take some, and that when your used to them
Shame no one thought of that before lol.
-Original Message-
From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On
Behalf Of Clement Chou
Sent: 06 February 2012 21:04
To: Gamers Discussion list
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Game accessibility was, Re: FINALLY! There is a Wii
You forget that sound memorization is just as important in an audio game as
a mianstream one. The only difference is that audio games will hold your
hand the whole way through and explain each sound even though most of them
are so obvious it isn't very hard to learn. Mainstream games are the
After reading that info. I can only say that if you have to go
through that much or more memorizing key patterns for each game or
player. When does it become fun with that much of a learning curve?
I don't mind reading a manual for a game. But when most of the feed
back you get is a sound or
The truth is, audio games do the exact same thing... and there are way more
keys than in mainstream games. Key patterns are dependent on the character,
which is why most people choose one they like and stay with them. That is
why fighting games are probably the most competetive genre... because
I'm afraid I do not agree there clemment.
In a fighting game it is not just necessary to memorize ten or 15 sounds,
but also know how those sounds correspond to specific moves.
For instance take Rufus Messiah kick! in street fighter 4.
Is it a ground kick or an air kick? what is it's level
All good points, and I do agree. But what you have to realize is that
sighted people need to memorize fighting game move properties just as well
as we do. Why? Because by the time they see that move and process it, their
character is eating a combo. The Massiah kick is a good example, however
Sorry for the double post. Dark, I'm actually pretty fascinated with this
discussion... you're raising points that I've never thought about. But would
you believe me if I said that this just makes me want to get more blind people
into mainstream games? lol
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