On 2013-09-30 04:05, Mark David Dumlao wrote:
It's true that it's nice to have a semblance of order where different parts
go.
But all libraries and binaries in /usr is also a semblance of order. You
don't
separate stuff for the sake of separating stuff. You separate them because you
have
On 2013-09-30 00:04, Alan McKinnon wrote:
It's the general idea that you can leave /usr unmounted until some
random arb time later in the startup sequence and just expect things to
work out fine that is broken.
It just happened to work OK for years because nothing happened to use
the code
On 30/09/2013 08:24, pk wrote:
So what you're saying is that everything in /usr is system-critical? I
have gimp installed in /usr... I don't see a need to start gimp at boot
time. Maybe we should classify frozen-bubble as system-critical as well
(it's also in /usr)?
Seriously, boot-critical
On 30/09/2013 08:31, pk wrote:
On 2013-09-30 00:04, Alan McKinnon wrote:
It's the general idea that you can leave /usr unmounted until some
random arb time later in the startup sequence and just expect things to
work out fine that is broken.
It just happened to work OK for years because
On 30/09/2013 01:08, Dale wrote:
At the end of they day, you don't want to learn how to do it the hard way.
So
do it the easy way and be done with your troubles. If you don't want to do
it
EITHER way fine, but stop pretending that it's anything else but a problem
with your attitude.
On 30/09/2013 01:40, Daniel Campbell wrote:
The best path for you seems to be a merge of / and /usr. I asked Alan
how to do this since he seemed knowledgeable about it. If he replies,
maybe his advice will be handy and save you a lot of trouble. It seems
clear to me that you want to avoid
On 30/09/2013 06:14, Walter Dnes wrote:
If the udev people had made net ifnames=0 the default, and allowed
the small percentage of multi-nic machine admins to set net.ifnames=1,
this would not have been an issue. Some corner case exotic setups
require complex solutions... no
On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 10:42:37 +0800, Mark David Dumlao wrote:
What was /usr's original purpose?
/usr was originally the home directory. Programs were moved there
because Unix didn't fit into a single disk.
http://lists.busybox.net/pipermail/busybox/2010-December/074114.html
Thanks for
On Sunday 29 September 2013 14:45:05 Tanstaafl wrote:
On 2013-09-29 2:25 PM, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote:
Tanstaafl wrote:
The way I see it, if you cannot provide a rational answer to that
question, then there is no reason for you to use this as a reason to
abandon gentoo, only a
On Sun, 29 Sep 2013 22:03:11 -0400, Greg Woodbury wrote:
One of the most obvious things that broke booting with a seperate /usr
is not GNOMEs fault, but GRUB 2's fault.
How so? All the files GRUB2 needs to boot are in /boot and GRUB is out of
the picture before the kernel loads or mounts /,
On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 00:14:08 -0400, Walter Dnes wrote:
seperate /usr has stopped working fine AGES AGO. Just some setups were
lucky enough not to stumble over the wreckage and fall into the
shards.
I.e. the 99% who don't need initramfs before today. Some corner case
exotic setups
On 30/09/2013 00:53, Tanstaafl wrote:
On 2013-09-29 5:15 PM, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote:
Those numbers are not likely to change much with time, with one
exception:
/usr/src
That can get real big real quick if you don't clean up kernel sources
often. Ideally, you'd make
»Q« wrote:
On Sun, 29 Sep 2013 10:39:35 -0500
Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote:
I think I'll update that Kubuntu disk right quick while I am thinking
about it. Fall back plan just in case. ;-)
Make sure you notify the Kubuntu mailing list of your contingency plans
in case Kubuntu's init
On Sun, Sep 29, 2013 at 11:36:02PM -0500, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote
On Sun, Sep 29, 2013 at 11:21 PM, Mark David Dumlao madum...@gmail.com
wrote:
And, on a personal note, I find a little quaint (and somehow naïve) to
think about (for example) bluetooth as a corner case, when most of
us walk
Alan McKinnon wrote:
On 30/09/2013 01:08, Dale wrote:
At the end of they day, you don't want to learn how to do it the hard
way. So
do it the easy way and be done with your troubles. If you don't want to do
it
EITHER way fine, but stop pretending that it's anything else but a problem
with
On 30/09/2013 01:31, Daniel Campbell wrote:
Curious; how is merging two filesystems done? I don't have a separate
/usr and am completely unaffected by this change, but it's somewhat
interesting to me. /usr stores some pretty important data on it, and I
imagine you'd need to mount it
Am 29.09.2013 16:37, schrieb Stefan G. Weichinger:
Am 27.09.2013 17:55, schrieb Volker Armin Hemmann:
What direction to go? force or disable HPET?
neither
And what to do to avoid those lost interrupts?
Is there no good suggestion for this?
On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 12:57:12AM +0100, Neil Bothwick wrote:
On Sun, 29 Sep 2013 18:31:37 -0500, Daniel Campbell wrote:
Curious; how is merging two filesystems done? I don't have a separate
/usr and am completely unaffected by this change, but it's somewhat
interesting to me. /usr stores
On Sunday 29 September 2013 19:36:32 Neil Bothwick wrote:
On Sun, 29 Sep 2013 10:53:26 -0400, Tanstaafl wrote:
Precisely. And, it is my understanding (correct me if I'm wrong), that
simply keeping your old kernel/initramfs around is NOT a guarantee (it
might work - and it might NOT) of
On Sunday 29 September 2013 22:09:35 Alan McKinnon wrote:
On 29/09/2013 19:59, Tanstaafl wrote:
I've been told that this shouldn't be a big deal... while I am a
(barely) passable linux sys admin
Allow me to forward an opinion. The above is not true, not even close.
Don't knock yourself,
On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 12:01:27 +0200, Hinnerk van Bruinehsen wrote:
mount /usr -o remount,ro
mkdir /newusr
rsync -a /usr/ /new/usr/
Comment out /usr line in /etc/fstab
mv /usr /oldusr
mv /newusr /usr
reboot
rmdir /oldusr
What you do with the old partition is up to you. In this
On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 12:16 +0200, Joost Roeleveld wrote:
Installing a new kernel does not magically make the old one break. If
that kernel worked yesterday, it will work today.
Actually, that is not guaranteed.
I remember a situation in the past where boot-critical software
required a
On 09/30/2013 04:31 AM, Alan McKinnon wrote:
On 30/09/2013 01:31, Daniel Campbell wrote:
Curious; how is merging two filesystems done? I don't have a separate
/usr and am completely unaffected by this change, but it's somewhat
interesting to me. /usr stores some pretty important data on
On Monday 30 September 2013 10:01:32 Alan McKinnon wrote:
On 30/09/2013 06:14, Walter Dnes wrote:
If the udev people had made net ifnames=0 the default, and allowed
the small percentage of multi-nic machine admins to set net.ifnames=1,
this would not have been an issue. Some corner
On 30/09/2013 12:27, Daniel Campbell wrote:
On 09/30/2013 04:31 AM, Alan McKinnon wrote:
On 30/09/2013 01:31, Daniel Campbell wrote:
Curious; how is merging two filesystems done? I don't have a separate
/usr and am completely unaffected by this change, but it's somewhat
interesting to me.
On Monday 30 September 2013 11:24:58 Neil Bothwick wrote:
On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 12:16 +0200, Joost Roeleveld wrote:
Installing a new kernel does not magically make the old one break. If
that kernel worked yesterday, it will work today.
Actually, that is not guaranteed.
I remember a
On 30/09/2013 12:32, Joost Roeleveld wrote:
On Monday 30 September 2013 10:01:32 Alan McKinnon wrote:
On 30/09/2013 06:14, Walter Dnes wrote:
If the udev people had made net ifnames=0 the default, and allowed
the small percentage of multi-nic machine admins to set net.ifnames=1,
this would
Hi, my most hated package is poppler. Each time in the past and now
again it's hard to upgrade.
portage (2.2.7) cannot handle it, so I have to (manually) unmerge all
packages depending on it and emerge them after
the poppler upgrade again.
Has anybody found a more elegant procedure?
Many
On 30/09/2013 13:55, Helmut Jarausch wrote:
Hi, my most hated package is poppler. Each time in the past and now
again it's hard to upgrade.
portage (2.2.7) cannot handle it, so I have to (manually) unmerge all
packages depending on it and emerge them after
the poppler upgrade again.
Has
On 09/30/2013 02:24:40 PM, Alan McKinnon wrote:
On 30/09/2013 13:55, Helmut Jarausch wrote:
Hi, my most hated package is poppler. Each time in the past and now
again it's hard to upgrade.
portage (2.2.7) cannot handle it, so I have to (manually) unmerge
all
packages depending on it and
On 30/09/2013 14:37, Helmut Jarausch wrote:
On 09/30/2013 02:24:40 PM, Alan McKinnon wrote:
On 30/09/2013 13:55, Helmut Jarausch wrote:
Hi, my most hated package is poppler. Each time in the past and now
again it's hard to upgrade.
portage (2.2.7) cannot handle it, so I have to
pk pete...@coolmail.se wrote:
Seriously, boot-critical would be something that the system cannot *boot
without*, which belongs in /. Everything else should be in /usr, i.e.
non-boot-critical. How hard is it to start *non-boot* (system) critical
*after* boot (things like sshd)? I do that
On 29.09.2013 20:25, Dale wrote:
Tanstaafl wrote:
On 2013-09-29 11:24 AM, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote:
Tanstaafl wrote:
Dale - I'm honestly curious, what is your reason, philisophical or
technical, for wanting a separate /usr?
Everything I've read says there is no good reason for it
Am 30.09.2013 11:54, schrieb Stefan G. Weichinger:
Am 29.09.2013 16:37, schrieb Stefan G. Weichinger:
Am 27.09.2013 17:55, schrieb Volker Armin Hemmann:
What direction to go? force or disable HPET?
neither
And what to do to avoid those lost interrupts?
Is there no good suggestion for
Am 30.09.2013 01:27, schrieb Dale:
Tanstaafl wrote:
On 2013-09-29 5:35 PM, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote:
Tanstaafl wrote:
Ok, but... everything I've read and personal experience over the years
shows that space required for /usr should not change much, especially
constantly grow over time
Am 30.09.2013 11:00, schrieb Alan McKinnon:
On 30/09/2013 00:53, Tanstaafl wrote:
On 2013-09-29 5:15 PM, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote:
Those numbers are not likely to change much with time, with one
exception:
/usr/src
That can get real big real quick if you don't clean up
On 2013-09-30 1:10 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com
wrote:
150gb for / with usr and you will be fine for ages.
I'm curious what a common/average size is for desktops...
My /usr, without portage files, is @ 5GB.
My current / is only 83M, so even after I merge /usr into it,
Keeping all of the laptops 100% identical as far as hardware is
central to this plan. I know I'm setting myself up for big problems
otherwise.
I'm hoping I can emerge every package on my laptop that every other
laptop needs. That way I can fix any build problems and update any
config
Am 30.09.2013 19:07, schrieb Volker Armin Hemmann:
Am 30.09.2013 11:54, schrieb Stefan G. Weichinger:
Am 29.09.2013 16:37, schrieb Stefan G. Weichinger:
Am 27.09.2013 17:55, schrieb Volker Armin Hemmann:
What direction to go? force or disable HPET?
neither
And what to do to avoid those
Am 30.09.2013 19:25, schrieb Tanstaafl:
On 2013-09-30 1:10 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann
volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote:
150gb for / with usr and you will be fine for ages.
I'm curious what a common/average size is for desktops...
My /usr, without portage files, is @ 5GB.
My current / is
On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 07:36:35PM +0200, Stefan G. Weichinger wrote:
What is the best way to transfer multi-GB-files in LAN? I don't really
need encryption here ...
My choice is always rsync -av /source/ user@IP:~/destination/ because it
won't copy a corrupt file. Make sure you understand
On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 07:36:35PM +0200, Stefan G. Weichinger wrote:
What is the best way to transfer multi-GB-files in LAN? I don't really
need encryption here ...
Did not mention rsync has:
-n, --dry-run perform a trial run with no changes made
as well as many other
On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 2:24 PM, pk pete...@coolmail.se wrote:
On 2013-09-30 04:05, Mark David Dumlao wrote:
are the same. Distro packagers, however, have to decide for 100% of the
cases.
So they're going to end up making weird decisions that are easy for you to
second-guess but are actually
Am 30.09.2013 19:46, schrieb Bruce Hill:
On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 07:36:35PM +0200, Stefan G. Weichinger wrote:
What is the best way to transfer multi-GB-files in LAN? I don't really
need encryption here ...
Did not mention rsync has:
-n, --dry-run perform a trial run with no
On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 12:38 AM, Dan Johansson dan.johans...@dmj.nu wrote:
On 29.09.2013 20:25, Dale wrote:
Simple, I have never had to resize / or /boot before. I have had to
resize /usr, /var and /home several times tho. THAT is the reason. For
me, it doesn't matter if it is rational to
Am 30.09.2013 19:07, schrieb Volker Armin Hemmann:
Am 30.09.2013 11:54, schrieb Stefan G. Weichinger:
Am 29.09.2013 16:37, schrieb Stefan G. Weichinger:
Am 27.09.2013 17:55, schrieb Volker Armin Hemmann:
What direction to go? force or disable HPET?
neither
And what to do to avoid those
On 30/09/2013 19:25, Tanstaafl wrote:
On 2013-09-30 1:10 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com
wrote:
150gb for / with usr and you will be fine for ages.
I'm curious what a common/average size is for desktops...
My /usr, without portage files, is @ 5GB.
My current / is
On 30/09/2013 19:25, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
But... is /usr/portage the default/recommended location? If so, then I
don't think I want to move it - I generally never change defaults unless
there is a very good reason to do so.
It's /var/portage for new installs. If you want it to be
On 09/30/2013 06:31 PM, Grant wrote:
Keeping all of the laptops 100% identical as far as hardware is
central to this plan. I know I'm setting myself up for big problems
otherwise.
I'm hoping I can emerge every package on my laptop that every other
laptop needs. That way I can fix any build
On 30/09/2013 19:31, Grant wrote:
Keeping all of the laptops 100% identical as far as hardware is
central to this plan. I know I'm setting myself up for big problems
otherwise.
I'm hoping I can emerge every package on my laptop that every other
laptop needs. That way I can fix any build
On 2013-09-30 09:32, Alan McKinnon wrote:
I never mentioned /var at all.
Go back and read again what I did write.
I'm quite aware what you wrote. If you only read what I wrote... English
is not my native language but the word *may* surely cannot be
misunderstood? Ok, I'll make it simple:
If
On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 09:31:18PM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
(or big chunks of it) over to your other workstations.
Puppet seems like overkill for what I need. I think all I really need
is something to manage config file differences and user accounts. At
this point I'm thinking I
Am 30.09.2013 20:23, schrieb Stefan G. Weichinger:
[ 1747.393960] hpet1: lost 2 rtc interrupts
[ 1747.452994] hpet1: lost 1 rtc interrupts
[ 1747.481786] hpet1: lost 1 rtc interrupts
[ 1747.527556] hpet1: lost 1 rtc interrupts
[ 1747.660527] hpet1: lost 1 rtc interrupts
[ 1747.726264]
On 30.09.2013 20:09, Mark David Dumlao wrote:
Peeps using LVM:
If, right now, you were forced to boot into /, without /usr, would you
be able to manually assemble your usr using pv/vg/lv tools - without
the assistance of udev?
Sure can!!!
--
Dan Johansson, http://www.dmj.nu
On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 13:25:57 -0400, Tanstaafl wrote:
On 2013-09-30 1:10 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann
volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote:
150gb for / with usr and you will be fine for ages.
I'm curious what a common/average size is for desktops...
My /usr, without portage files, is @ 5GB.
Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
500gb harddisks are extremely cheap. 150gb for / with usr and you will
be fine for ages. Why are you acting like this is a problem?
Maybe cheap for you but not so for me. I'm on a fixed income,
disabled. Also, my brother has cancer and I'm taking him to treatments
On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 18:38:36 +0200, Dan Johansson wrote:
I agree to 100% with you Dale. I have /usr on a separate LVM partition
(I only have, as you, / and /boot on regular partitions) to be able to
easily extend it (which I have been forced to do a few times).
And as my VG-partition starts
On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 21:31:18 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
I'm soaking up a lot of your time (again). I'll return with any real
Gentoo questions I run into and to run down the final plan before I
execute it. Thanks so much for your help. Not sure what I'd do
without you. :)
I'm sure
Am 30.09.2013 22:48, schrieb Dale:
Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
500gb harddisks are extremely cheap. 150gb for / with usr and you will
be fine for ages. Why are you acting like this is a problem?
Maybe cheap for you but not so for me. I'm on a fixed income,
disabled. Also, my brother has
On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 09:40:45PM +0200, pk wrote
If *something1* at boot time requires access to *something2* at boot
time that isn't available then I would say that *something1* is broken
by design not the *something2*.
What about the case where *something2* *USED TO BE AVAILABLE, BUT
On Monday 30 Sep 2013 20:14:44 Alan McKinnon wrote:
On 30/09/2013 19:25, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
But... is /usr/portage the default/recommended location? If so, then I
don't think I want to move it - I generally never change defaults
unless there is a very good reason to do so.
On 2013-09-30 08:45, Alan McKinnon wrote:
That is over-simplifying the problem and trivializing it. No-one ever
said the *everythign* in /usr is criticial for boot.
Is it really over-simplyfying it? How am I supposed to know whatever
comes next? Someone (upstream) *may* find it boot-critical
On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 17:05:39 -0400, Walter Dnes wrote:
If *something1* at boot time requires access to *something2* at boot
time that isn't available then I would say that *something1* is broken
by design not the *something2*.
What about the case where *something2* *USED TO BE
On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 23:05:29 +0100, Mick wrote:
really? so when I moved PORTDIR to /var/portage I was ahead of the
rest? Wow...
You were ahead of me for sure :-)
I clearly remember one day long long ago you ranted and raved about
how a huge chunk of /usr was write-often...
On Tue, 01 Oct 2013 00:14:55 +0200, pk wrote:
Your second paragraph reveals that you beleive you already know
everything you need to have to boot your system. Now do the same for
every possible Gentoo user out there and have it work 100% of the time
in ALL valid cases.
I *do* know
El 30/09/13 00:47, Volker Armin Hemmann escribió:
Am 29.09.2013 18:41, schrieb Francisco Blas Izquierdo Riera (klondike):
El 29/09/13 18:03, Volker Armin Hemmann escribió:
Am 29.09.2013 17:12, schrieb Greg Woodbury:
On 09/29/2013 07:58 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
things were broken way
I've recently noticed when ssh'ing into another machine that the xterm
display doesn't fully update. I.e. there are holes where an app
updates over a previous screen. I've tried Google, but any mention of
screen is interpreted as the screen utility.
--
Walter Dnes waltd...@waltdnes.org
I
Hello,
i have a Rootserver with Power. Can i built package on this Host and send
Package to my Notebooks? Can i built Packages on the Root without local
install?
I has read about distcc and other way with NFS. But NFS over Network not the
best and sounds complicate.
Thank you Nice Day
Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
Am 30.09.2013 22:48, schrieb Dale:
Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
500gb harddisks are extremely cheap. 150gb for / with usr and you will
be fine for ages. Why are you acting like this is a problem?
Maybe cheap for you but not so for me. I'm on a fixed income,
On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 09:47:46PM +0100, Neil Bothwick wrote:
My desktop
% df /usr
Filesystem Type Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on
silastic/usr zfs32G 15G 17G 48% /usr
My laptop
% df /usr
Filesystem Type Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on
bangbang/usr zfs
On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 7:21 AM, Francisco Blas Izquierdo Riera
(klondike) klond...@gentoo.org wrote:
Ohh and BTW, /usr was not just added because someone added a harddrive,
in most cases it was used to allow machines contain a very small system
on / which was enough to just boot and mount a
On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 1:11 PM, Mark David Dumlao madum...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 7:21 AM, Francisco Blas Izquierdo Riera
(klondike) klond...@gentoo.org wrote:
Ohh and BTW, /usr was not just added because someone added a harddrive,
in most cases it was used to allow machines
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