This does not happen now. At the time it
was rampant display of pagan practices that defied
human dignity and benevolence, that were probably the
cause of. What else did you expect? Since treating
some humans inhumanely and worshipping animals at the
same time is 'perverse' to say the leas
Goa was performed. It was a good ten years
I think. Does the date matter? It's a 'fait accompli'.
Nasci Caldeira
--- cornel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In the ongoing discussions about Portugal Goa and
> India, I had inadvertantly overlooked the important
point made by
;peace' between the 'easterners' and westerners'
and not spread falsehood. Beware of the machetes; Take
a bag of rice and Goa sausages and some feny with you,
please! :-)
Regards
Nasci Caldeira
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lopement of the Oil and Gas fields; instead of
sharing, they want to take all of it; the leaders are
duping their own people into these type of deliberate
misunderstanding. They are not 'used' to resolving
their disputes in a 'democrative way', hence resort to
'machetes'. T
the Timor Gap
Oil and Gas fields, has been settled and documented,
to the satisfaction of both Timor Leste and Australia.
A bigger than half the share will go to East Timor
from the proceeds of developing this 'Field' All this,
the East Timorese will get, with no skills or
investment of thei
My belated Congratulations to Beatrice and Cecil
Pinto, whom I had the pleasure of meeting in person,
in Goa in December Last year.
Many more years of United Bliss, I wish you.
With Luv,
Nasci caldeira
--- George Pinto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Congratulations to Beatrice and Ce
ideology, do we, as a nation that
> embraces Secularism, have the
> moral right to deplore fundamentalism & Communalism?
Nasci responds:
Secularism as defined and enshrined in the
Constitu
Hi Elisabeth, Vivian and others,
Reading this, takes me back to my younger days of
indulging in Sidney Sheldon novels!
You may keep it up, Elisabeth. "Barkis is willing"?
:-)
Nasci Caldeira
Melbourne
Down Under
--- Elisabeth Carvalho <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Hi Vivi
From: Nasci Caldeira [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 10:58 PM
To: Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994!
Subject: RE: Re: [Goanet] Enlightened Christian
Lawrence,
If I am an enlightened Christian, does not mean that you an
it should be for everyone; Damn the taboos and the stuck up
ideas of the past!
This is my last posting on this thread; Thanks to all for reading me.
Sincerely speaking,
Nasci Caldeira.
--
Santosh
and just not on! Thats
all that I am saying.
A 'human animal' as you say it, will not worship an animal of a lower
intelligence; he has no need to!unless he is of 'no intelligence'. What say
you? Kevin?
With regards,
Nasci Caldeira.
"[EMAIL PROTECTED]" &
#x27;.
I do not wish to take the name of God in vain! I will hence forth refrain in
this, and I hope I am forgiven.
Nasci Caldeira
Elisabeth Carvalho <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Subject: Re: [Goanet] The next Gandhi: I'll make India better off than
Britain
I've often wonder
', be enlightened; thereby
creating a 'Great Indian Enlightened Society'!
More on 'enlightenment' from anybody and everybody is welcome!
Nasci Caldeira
Melbourne
Down by the Yarra.
"Nasci Caldeira" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Date: Fri, 05 May 2006 22:58:23
n; more on civic and
infrastucture issues, for the greater good of GOA! However the lack of
response to such issues, the non excitement from readers, deters me on
writing anything like that. Ya! Ya! Maya YA! --Ya! Ya! Goem Ya!
Nasci Caldeira
Down by the Yarra!
Elisabeth Carvalho <[EM
x27; in your postings to goanet. OK? God Bless you!
Sincerely Speaking!
Nasci Caldeira
Melbourne
"[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Subject: [Goanet] RE: Enlightened Christian
Date: Thu, 4 May 2006 13:03:13 -0400
"Nasty" Caldeira <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
t speaking out earlier. I delayed,
as I was sort of shell shocked but realised that you did not attack the
Faith as such; but only the actions of leaders and the administration, of
the past. I also hope this satisfies Gabe, who seems to be pushing the
burden on me, in his last post.
Sinc
heir birth! Understand Vasant??
Threfore all of India's varied societies must learn to integrate culturally
and in every way possible; whilst at the same time keeping their religious
practices strictly private!. Bye now. More on this later.
Nasci Caldeira
"[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
te 'horse meat' was in Hamburg, Germany; when a German friend
intoduced the same to me as 'Wurst' the popular German sausage. I believe
they learnt to eat horse during the War Days, when meat was scarce; Only
certain parts of horse are eaten; I like the taste though; could not
have become a bit envious of your date
with Mario! In contrast I am offering you a 'Chateaubriand Steak' (for two)
prepared personally 'medium rare' , with a bottle of the finest 'Sparkling
Red Burgandy' on ice, to go with it! Life is GOOD on the banks of the riv
The last para quoted at the end: "Lets continue raving against reservations
and yet maintain one of the most 'inflexible' system of 'reservations' on
the planet."
That says it all. Incredible India Indeed!
Nasci Caldeira
Melbourne.
Frederick [FN] Noronha" &
satsisfactory 'vote bank' for the smart people.
Nasci Caldeira
Melbourne
Down Under
floriano <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Funny as it may sound, I had a good laugh at the e-mail which George has
denounced.
Goorge has not got the right vibrations of the email nor the men
s in India, from their country of temporary residence. This
is allowed and facilitated for Australian citizens anywhere outside the
country. So also was the case recently with Iraqi Citizens residing in
Australia on bridging visas, when they were allowed to vote from Australia
blic
travel by air regularly. Buses are our normal mode of transport and I feel
that the Alemao brothers, khalap and others should concentrate for now at
least in the interest of public safety to improve the quality and safety of
the private and Kadamba buses."
NASCI CALDEIRA adds:
All of the p
every one benefits.
Nasci Caldeira
Melbourne.
"Frederick Noronha" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Subject: [Goanet] Re: Re: Moira Contraversy...
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 03:44:34 +0530
Also, could someone share with us the procedures for setting up a
small business (or what Mr Cal
Elections but also
to have their own Reps in both houses of the Italian Parliament. These were
duly elected here in Australia by these NRI's and are now sitting in the
Italian Parliament on behalf of the NRI's. I was pleasently surprised; but
again that is true democracy in action.
n God! I hope u will accept this, and stop doubting; I believe
in only one God for all true religions! Lets move on from here.
Nasci Caldeira
Radhakrishnan Nair <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
(Nasci to me: May the Christian God and Peace be with you.)
Thank you for the kind blessing
rn India, were militant secularists.
Nasci:
Thats true; Thanks Santosh!
Hindutva Brigade Murdabad! Secularism Zindabad! Fascism of all types
Murdabad!
VIVA GOA and REAL Communal HARMONY!
Nasci Caldeira
Melbourne
Down Under.
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Mervyn Lobo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Nasci Caldeira wrote:
I have no brand of 'Secularism'. I do not consider
myself that 'Intelligent'??
Folks,
I stoped reading right here.
Mervyn3.0
Nasci responds:
Mervyn,
e: the
Bhudhists will crucify you! (to which u r giving a literal slant, and saying
that Bhudhists do not crucify) for your slander against their beliefs.
Intelligent?? How pathetic!
I am sincerely awaiting your stance on : Secularism. Will we have it, or
not?
Regards,
Nasci Caldeira
Melbo
ase' as literally meaning! How pathetic!
Boas Festas! belatedly. :-) :-)
Nasci Caldeira.
Melbourne
"jose colaco" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote
< P.S. By the way, there are Buddhist snake temples, and Buddhists don't
crucify others. Nor do genuinely secular Christi
nature. We are all human, and as such there are human failings, and
atrocities are commited. Christian beliefs do not and should not drive
these; but that is human failing, which societies must try and prevent or
correct.
May the Christian God and Peace be with you.
Nasci Caldeira
Melbourne
Down
.
Nasci Caldeira.
From: Gilbert Lawrence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 08:58:58 -0400
I make it a point to share my personal advice and experience with fellow
Guess what, my greeting returned to me?
Not fully prepared, we had our own beginning to this New Catholic Year.
ds George! I am not against you, per se!
Nasci Caldeira
Australia.
_
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Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
d that
I have done; until George Pinto came along and added his typical colours to
it.
I think, now I am due an apology for intrusions into my bid to profess my
Faith and wish everyone a Happy Easter.
Nasci Caldeira
_
Do not post admin requests
d differences of belief in dogmas,tradition between them..it is
very difficult to give asuccint and brief statement on" What do
Chritians believe ?"
Nasci Caldeira, says:
Difficult? Who says? Are Catholics not Christian? Then that is what
Catholics believe
say: doing so would be most stupid display of ignorance, of what one is
talking about!.
Is this not true about secularism. Pray tell us what is 'Secularism'
according to you. Will you?
May the Christian Easter Peace be with you. Be a Christian and
of religion and comparisons
as well, in a decent and non violent way!.
If you wish to really discuss, then start one with your own topic. Please do
not mix up your 'shady outmoded' thinking with my topic. OK? Focus focus on
the issue! And even then, you have no high hopes of being
---
* G * O * A * N * E * T *** C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S *
---
USDA certified Goa Sausages and other Goan foods can now be delivered
n', and not of
stadium killing and entertainment! Do you not understand that? How did you
get entry into Canada, with this type of ignorance?
Oh my God! You must be reading with your eyes or mind clos
--
Domnic Fernandes continues (Part III) his reminiscence of
Mapusa of the 1950s
http://www.goanet.org/index.php
'SHY' or just an opportunist
journalist?
See Ya!
Nasci Caldeira
Melbourne
Down Under
From: Radhakrishnan Nair <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: "Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994!"
To: goanet@goanet.org
Subject: [Goanet] Re: Goa's appalling Road Sense! (re
ew Delhi , towards this end. I also hope that
this will help Delhi's notorious Hazy skies disappear, and the SUN will rise
and set, again, throughout the year in the Capital. Then I will go and get
some good Photos which were impossible because of the hazy and foggy skies!
Nasci Caldei
--
Domnic Fernandes continues (Part III) his reminiscence of
Mapusa of the 1950s
http://www.goanet.org/index.php
to register their complaints, like I
am able to do here; Give these tourists a genuine place to complain about
their stay; and they will be many millions of complaints.
Nasci Caldeira
Melbourne.
_
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Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
--
Domnic Fernandes continues (Part III) his reminiscence of
Mapusa of the 1950s
http://www.goanet.org/index.php
--
Domnic Fernandes continues (Part III) his reminiscence of
Mapusa of the 1950s
http://www.goanet.org/index.php
e that right. And so do others.:=))
So how come you call Goans who read my post as "gullible"?
I forgive you. When you have no economic argument to rebut my case for
MOPA, it is easy to use epithets.
That makes my arguments even stronger. Thanks
Kind Regards, GL
Nasci Caldeira
I, Nasc
--
Domnic Fernandes continues (Part II) his reminiscence of
Mapusa of the 1950s
http://www.goanet.org/index.php?
--
Domnic Fernandes continues (Part II) his reminiscence of
Mapusa of the 1950s
http://www.goanet.org/index.php?
--
Domnic Fernandes continues (Part II) his reminiscence of
Mapusa of the 1950s
http://www.goanet.org/index.p
--
Domnic Fernandes continues (Part II) his reminiscence of
Mapusa of the 1950s
http://www.goanet.org/index.php?
--
|Domnic Fernandes continues (Part II) his reminiscence of Mapusa |
| of the 50s / 60s |
|
Dear Gilbert,
Very good, Gilbert! very Good indeed! That is what the Indian Navy should be
doing and getting better and better at the job, where crores have been
invested. Congratulations to the Navy!
But surely, you will agree that all this and more can be acheived from Sea
Bird, and not fr
ing or implying that Goa is not
part of India and the likes! What a transformation! Keep up this type of
sensible writing and you will be acheiving whatever your aims are. Wish you
luck!
Nasci Caldeira
Melbourne
Down Under.
___
To help yo
ion! National Assets are all over India; Or
does the writer think and speculate that only Goa has national assets?
Let wisdom and fairness play! Long live India and also Long live our
Beautiful Goa in India!.
More importantly:
Long live Dabolim as the only civilian Airport in Goa! Long Liv
arrested and prosecuted for causing mayhem and telling other fellow Indians
how they should celebrate love, or whatever.
Disgusting Societies and Communities, or pockets of disgust in society?
Either way its bad and repugnant.
Nasci Caldeira
Melbourne
Down Under
ations,
and hundreds of vehicles were left stranded."
Nasci Caldeira says:
Why were these protesters not lathi charged and or arrested and prevented
from, "blocking and disrupting Traffic" ??
They should have conducted their protests off the highways and organised to
help keep the traf
e a look at how things
are done and thought of in advanced countries, and learn and implement the
same at home. For God's sake; "do not change policemens uniform, to
enlighten or reform them". Goanetters will know what I mean here! There are
better things to do and get results.
Nasci Ca
e were electric Light and sound, as long as there was
entertainment!
bye
Nasci Caldeira
Melbourne
Down Under
From: JoeGoaUk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: "Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994!"
To: goanet@goanet.org
That was also called 'suvari' (suvari=d
itute for Dabolim. This is the need of the hour."
Nasci Caldeira says:
There is no need of any political carrot from the PM or from anybody, to
neutralise the opposition to Mopa. Reason and commonsense objectivity has
already done and disproved the need for Mopa.
All that is requ
lovers, to throw more light on
this issue and debate and expound their views and ideas etc. on this issue.
Cheers!
Nasci Caldeira
Melbourne
Down Under
it is the
people's right, and they shall have it and NOW! A peoples movement should
start right away and force the authorities to minimise such avoidable
inconveniences to the people of Goa.
Nasci Caldeira
Melbourne
Down Under
Subject: [Goanet] Govt trying to computerise birth, dea
friends who may be residing and married into the British
society there. Hence their particular wish to acquaint with Goa, and the
relevent 'ads' re Goan tourism.
Bye and Cheers.
Nasci Caldeira
Melbourne
Down Under
Subject: [Goanet] Constables to study communities?
Date: Fri, 27 J
s , in
addition to the one famous statue already there.
But more importantly, the memory of the great achievement at the historic
'Opinion Poll' should be kept alive, by talks and shows etc, on this Day
every year, by all the people og Goa and their leaders!
Nasci Caldeira
Melbourne
Down Under
Goa does not need another airport at Mopa! All it needs is a 'Bigger Airport
at Dabolim" and this is feasible at less cost and can be done in much less
time too!
The author has spoken about big Cities having airports at one end of town.
True! But Goa is not a big city, nor will it be so in the
rt area in Dabolim.
Some persons are qualified to speak with "their eyes wide shut"?
Nasci caldeira.
Goa.
From: Eric Pereira <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Goanet] RE: Mopa Airport
Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 08:58:09 -0500
Sir,
I wish those who are opposed to the new airport a
m me. Read Valmiki Faleiro laatest presentation.
Bye. Cheers!
Nasci Caldeira
Goa.
---
* G * O * A * N * E * T *** C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S *
---
--
|Goa - 2005 Santosh Trophy Champions |
||
| Support Soccer Activities at the grassroots in our villages |
How much more "WRONG' can YOU be; when U try to read Thomas and put in
your
own bias!
Mea Culpa!
Nasci Caldeira
Goa.
>From: "D'Souza, Avelino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: RE: [Goanet] RE:Goanet Reader: REDO DABOLIM,UNDO MOPA (Valmiki
>Faleiro)
>Dat
and very disturbing in that it was thought
of at all!
Better We say 'AMEN' to Mopa NOW, NOW, NOW.
The very 'IDEA" of Mopa has been 'Mischeivuos and Devious' from the start!
Mopa NEVER! Dabolim Forever!
Nasci Caldeira
Goa.
Subject: [Goanet] THE BOGEY OF LAN
ead Thomas and put in your
own bias!
Mea Culpa!
Nasci Caldeira
Goa.
From: "D'Souza, Avelino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: [Goanet] RE:Goanet Reader: REDO DABOLIM,UNDO MOPA (Valmiki
Faleiro)
Date:
alup. Progress indeed!
Those interested in knowing me or meeting me in person are most welcome; I'm
presently in a Salcete Hotel. I'm definitely interested in meeting some of
the Goanetters! Pls email me directly, and I shall give you my mobile
number. looking f
t.
And in April, 16 workers of MphasiS, a company that handles outsourced work,
were arrested in Pune, western India, for siphoning off money from Citibank
US
account holders.
-
Reproduced from 'The Age' melbourne Australia
Nasci
idation with all its lobbying power; that's the only way the knives
will
slide back into their sheaths. BLOOMBERG
------
Reproduced from 'The Age' Melbourne Australia.
Nasci Caldeira
Melbourne
Down Under
being done towards this cause!
I therefore add my name to the list of signatories. Lets keep up the good
work. Viva Goa.
Nasci Caldeira
Melbourne
Australia
--
| 1st Young Goans International Essay contest 2005
a etc. Man is
always learning; if not formally then informally!
And I thought, you should have known that! How silly of me?
Nasci Caldeira
From: Lawrence Rodrigues <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: "Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994!"
To: Goanet
Subject: Re: [Goanet] In
you fail to remove these filters even after the Sky Bus tests have proved
themselves a failure, of a big magnitude.
Nasci Caldeira
From: Lawrence Rodrigues <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Re: Monorail vs Skybus
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 00:53:20 +0530
Gabriel,
Know not what fi
can; please let us
know how overseas Goans can be of practical help, now and in the future.
Cheers for the Clean Goa Initiative!
Nasci Caldeira.
Melbourne
From: Cecil Pinto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Goanet] Join the Clean Goa Initiative
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 21:39:18 +0530
The
t is true in content and
meaning; as there are ample examples of non accomplished and do-nothing
'civil sevants', 'civil engineers' and 'electrical engineers' etc. who are
the cause of many a failures in Government and local Govt. endeavours.
Nasci Caldeira
Hello Goanetters,
Hope you will find the following 'read' useful.
Nasci Caldeira.
China booking place in Space Club!
China's second manned space mission will be launched today, carrying two
astronauts into orbit on a flight lasting several days, the Government
announced yesterda
Hello Goanetters!
Please read this news item; I hope authorities concerned will take remedial
action; instead of burdening srudents and the general population with
multiple languages, bogus learning and ancient non useful culture.
Nasci Caldeira.
http://theage.com.au/news/business/india-hung
Yes Philip,
I agree and support all this, as well as the amendments, I would make as
below.
Nasci Caldeira
From: "Philip Thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Goanet] WISH LIST FOR BETTER QUALITY OF LIFE
Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 07:14:28 +0530
Everything else remaining the
a report on Mopa, so
somebody could mop up?? That's partisan politics indeed.
This is not to say that politicians should not lead the debate or actions
needed for this accomplishment; but that they should lead for 'all of Goa',
like some are already doing, after listening to
The Proof is in the Pudding! The Sky Bus has failed in Design and safety; a
very big failure. The world must be laughing! Lawrence, the 21st century
technology that you are talking of is steeped into ancient culture, not
really modern; and has therefore failed; for not looking forward but
bac
hello Goanetters,
I believe M. Parrikar has said that retaining dabolim and not going ahead
with Mopa, is communal. How is this possible Mr Parrikar? Was the Communal
VCD hatched and made in Mopa! Or what is it then. Please explain how you can
term a healthy debate on airport location as commu
rists destinations of the world.
Goa has picked up; but let us realise the full potential for Goa, to be
among the top ten modern and satisfactory tourist places on earth.
Cheers!
Nasci Caldeira
Melbourne
Down Under
e. The
Govt. of Goa will be the wiser, in listening to this idea and executing the
same.
Cheers!
Nasci Caldeira
Melbourne
Down Under
the same
time frame. So also the parking, roads and connecting network have to be
upgraded; all of this can be done and accomodated at Dabiolim itself, same
as would needs to be done at Mopa. We do not need this white elephant at
Mopa. OK?
Nasci Caldeira
Melbourne
Down Under.
From: jaytey &l
gers
and cargo etc then Goa. And Mumbai is a mega metropolis! and yet has only
one runway and one airport. so whats the this scare campaign you are
running.
Nasci Caldeira
Melbourne
Down under.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.21/96 - Release Date: 9/10/2005
a fraction of the cost
and in much less time, at Dabolim. The Navy moving out to Sea Bird will be a
much needed boost! Mopa is a real waste of time and money! It will be
India's biggest white elephant, if it comes up at all. Moreover it will be
in the private sector who will then demand the complete closure of Dabolim
for civilian flights, in order to recoup their losses.
Nasci Caldeira
Melbourne
Down Under.
t need to be a Venice
or anything else! Just be Goa!
Nasci Caldeira
Melbourne
>From: "Eustaquio Santimano" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>Going, going, Goa
>
>France has Cannes. Italy has Venice. Ger many has Berlin. Canada has
>Toronto. Korea has Pusan. Each of these citi
Excellent Modeikar! Excellent!
Evidence of 'real progress' is hardy seen!
Nasci Caldeira
Melbourne.
>From: xembuh Moidekar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>According to Gandhi..
tical."
(What a load of rubbish!)
Nasci Caldeira:
Exactly the reason for extending and developing the same further, to meet
the present day and future demands, made on it. The total size of the
Dabolim area, on which the Navy is sitting, is huge; big enough for all the
service faci
Phillip Thomas points out.
Nasci Caldeira
Melbourne.
From: "AGNELO DE SOUSA" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] DABOLIM Only; Mopa N/A
Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 21:05:44 +0930
Hi Nasci,
Read your message about having two airports in Goa I agree completely with
you .However I
you seem to be back; lets not see your in 'shorts' at
Sunday Mass, even if you have good legs or not, stockinged or not; and even
if you donate! OK? Thanking you, with laughter!
Nasci Caldeira
Melbourne
rd against fires and floods etc; not go
on building unnecessary and unviable 'facilities' across the country!
Let Common Sense and Economic Sense Prevail! Viva Goa! Jai Bharat!
Nasci Caldeira
Melbourne
Down Under
course to the many 'members' who read and or interact with this 'forum'
for the Goan Diaspora.
Viva Goanet! Viva Goan Diaspora! Viva GOA!
Nasci Caldeira
Melbourne
Down Under
From: Herman Carneiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Goanet] Goanet's 11th Anniversary -
:
Christians might be a bit more 'organised' than the others. But that's
little cause for looking down (or did I read your statement wrong?) on
others.
Nasci:
I am not looking down on anybody or community! However I do want other
Communities to 'wake up' and undertake t
gh resources to
'fund' more and more welfare schemes.
Progress has to be progressive, and sustainable, and so is welfare!
Nasci Caldeira
Melbourne
Down Under
From: "D'Souza, Avelino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Goanet]Welfare pension.
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 1
the CM and put some science
and logic into their actions. If they do not listen and do the needful
within a fortnight, then there should be a campaign against all fishing and
fish eating and trading, until the valid objectives are realised.
Nasci Caldeira
Melbourne
Down Under
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