I'm giving a short valve cleaning class at my university here in two weeks,
and since I'm not sure how big the room/attendence is going to be I was going
to go down to Kinko's and see if I can get a few valve diagrams blown up and
pasted on the wall behind me to point to in order to explain bett
Perhaps before you go thru the valve disassembly & cleaning process, you
could demonstrate how to do a basic 'valve rinse' using lightweight valve
oil or UltraPure unscented Lamp Oil as a way to flush-out sluggish valves.
-
It sure is alot safer for a non-technician horn player to do a valve rinse
Jay writes:
For the full cleaning, I suggest to only work on 1 valve at a time, that
way parts don't get swapped, and there are intact valves to show how they
are supposed to be re-assembled...
One way to keep the parts separate is to have a different shot glass for
every valve
> lamp oil is not manufactured to be used as a lubricant
I don't think lamp oil is "manufactured" at all. More on that in a moment...
***
> ... you're still buying (lamp) oil that is cheap
> enough to be sold for a few dollars for 24 ounces
I sure hope we all know why valve oil costs more than l
Hi William,
There are pics of rotors in:
1 - The Art of French Horn Playing - Philip Farkas
2 - The Horn - Robin Gregory
3 - Horn - Barry Tuckwell (Yehudi Menuhin series)
Regards, Jerry in Kansas City
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The only difficulty with this is that I won't have a running tap or infinite s
upply of water. Whatever liquids I have will be whatever I can carry in a
bucket from the bathroom to the classroom.
I used to do light oil rinses on my horn, but I got marginal results at best.
Most of the time the o
In a message dated 9/8/2004 6:35:26 PM Central Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
For the full cleaning, I suggest to only work on 1 valve at a time, that
way parts don't get swapped, and there are intact valves to show how they
are supposed to be re-assembled...
Most valves are numbered, as
Yup. Most of the cheaper valves that are not numbered are usually brass.
Brass is soft, and a small mark can easily be made with the business end of a
steel screwdriver.
-William
In a message dated 9/8/2004 6:49:10 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Most valves are numbered, a
In a message dated 9/8/2004 7:27:05 PM Central Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Why oil the rest of the horn when you
only need to oil the valves?
If you ever remove an old branch or tuning slide bow and cut it with a saw,
you can see just how green and corroded the inside can get. A l
In a message dated 9/8/2004 7:27:05 PM Central Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
One other consideration with this is that lamp oil is not manufactured to be
used as a lubricant. No matter how 'pure' the label says the stuff is, you're
still buying oil that is cheap enough to be sold for
In a message dated 9/8/2004 8:50:45 PM Central Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Yup. Most of the cheaper valves that are not numbered are usually brass.
Brass is soft, and a small mark can easily be made with the business end of a
steel screwdriver.
Ouch! The rotors in my Meinlschmidt va
Well the thing is though with old horns, corrosion is often caused by
neglect, not a lack of oil.
Oil will dry out over time, most will anyways. That leaves anything open for
rust/corrosion. If you regularly oil your valves and clean them, absolutely no
dirt will build up, even if your saliva i
But, oil is a very complicated chemical. It's composed of thousands of
organic/synthetic compounds. There are different qualities of Kerosene as well, some
are obviously more pure than others.
As to Holton, Al Cass oils, I don't advise using them. Holton oil dries out
very rapidly, and Al Cass
It's not that bad. All you have to do is make a few dots. One dot for the
first valve, maybe a dash for the thumb valve, three for the third, etc. Brass is
thankfully very soft.
-William
In a message dated 9/8/2004 6:57:44 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Ouch! The rotors in
In a message dated 9/8/2004 8:27:00 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> I've heard many times that oil rinses are good, or that even dropping oil
> into the leadpipe every now and then yields good results. However,
> personally,
> I've never had positive results with it. Why
In a message dated 9/8/04 9:02:03 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> and put one last coat of quality oil before storage.
>
No, a final last coat of quality oil is not necessary or desirable.
The oil will congeal and gum up and make slides and valves hard to move or
to freeze.
It is better t
In a message dated 9/8/2004 9:55:08 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> Most lamp oils are 100% pure, filtered, deoderized kerosene.Holton rotary
> oil
> and others, like Cass oil are also 100% pure, filtered deoderized kerosene.
>
I don't know all the Holton oil I've
You caught me there :) I've never stored any horns for any length of time so
I assumed that was a possible solution.
I suppose auto mechanics and horn storage are two separate things.
Thanks!
-William
In a message dated 9/8/2004 9:20:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
No,
In a message dated 9/9/2004 12:19:44 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> No, a final last coat of quality oil is not necessary or desirable.
> The oil will congeal and gum up and make slides and valves hard to move or
>
> to freeze.
> It is better to clean all of the
Very very good advise!
I do agree that rinsing the horn while the valves are still in will allow
water to accumulate in the open spaces between the bearing plates and the main
valve. That stuff doesn't drain automatically, and in as such it's easier to
just remove the valves and snake out each
I forgot to comment on this. This is probably the best advice in maintenence
- and something I'll definately bring into my class. I brush my teeth before
every time I play the horn, and I clean my horn regularly.
Another great point... thanks!
-William
In a message dated 9/8/2004 9:14:53 PM P
Kudos to that. Hetman is the best :)
-William
In a message dated 9/8/2004 9:21:13 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
FWIW to the list I will make my recommendation: Hetman. No other line of
lubricants I've used is as comprehensive nor performs as well over the long
run.
Dav
When you clean the rotors and then put them back into a dirty horn with
corroded casings, isn`t that a little like changing a very dirty diaper but not
washing off the little hinder?
Wes
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It is not necessary to remove the valves regularly for cleaning. I had an 8D
for 5 years and played it regularly. I never had it cleaned. At the end of the
5 years, there was no crud, green or otherwise, and the valves were clean, just
slightly dark. What I did was to blow a 8:1 mixture of kerosene
Who said I did that?
-William
In a message dated 9/9/2004 4:28:23 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
When you clean the rotors and then put them back into a dirty horn with
corroded casings, isn`t that a little like changing a very dirty diaper but
not
washing off the little
From: "Herbert Foster" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
It is not necessary to remove the valves regularly for cleaning. I had an
8D
for 5 years and played it regularly. I never had it cleaned. At the end of
the
5 years, there was no crud, green or otherwise, and the valves were clean,
just
slightly dark. Wh
In a message dated 9/9/2004 12:27:48 PM Central Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Who said I did that?
I guess you implied it by saying you were taking the valves out of their
horns and cleaning them ultrasonically. I didn`t read anything in your post about
cleaning the horn at the same t
Ah. Well I don't have a massive ultrasonic cleaner. However that doesn't mean
I do not wash the valve casings when I ultrasonically clean the valves. The
cleaner is only big enough to clean the valves.
Basically I just clean it with soap and water. It seems to work fine.
Besides, why would my v
In a message dated 9/9/2004 8:22:59 PM Central Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Ah. Well I don't have a massive ultrasonic cleaner. However that doesn't mean
I do not wash the valve casings when I ultrasonically clean the valves. The
cleaner is only big enough to clean the valves.
Basic
Well I'm going to hopefully convey to them that valve cleaning shouldn't be
done unless you know what you're doing or you have someone who does over your
shoulder as it were.
But now that you mention it I will mention to them that if they were to do it
and they find any corrosion that they shou
: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Valve Cleaning Class
In a message dated 9/8/04 9:02:03 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> and put one last coat of quality oil before storage.
>
No, a final last coat of quality oil is not necessary or desirable.
The oil will congeal and gum
Two jobs ago I had a vibrator unit mounted to a very heavy steel plate. This would
turn any container into a very powerful cleaner. I keep hoping to come across one
surplus. As I recall it was capable of higher frequency than a self contained unit.
Other than that, hang onto old tooth brushes
Do you really use soap? I know what happens when I try to wash my hair with soap.
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Hi,
Just a quick question on a point raised by Paul Navarro. Paul
suggested alcohol cleaning of valves/slides before long-term storage. I have
access to very high purity alcohol but I had never considered it for valve
cleaning before it does make sense that it might help though. So the
I use soap and water. It gets it clean enough. Then again, my horn is usually
very clean to start with. Don't you use shampoo in your hair? That's soap,
albiet in a very soluable form.
-William
In a message dated 9/10/2004 10:14:06 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Do you rea
Alcohol is often used to clean up after cleaning with solvents because it evaporates
with no resedue.
Alcohol, however, absorbs water quite readily, and in large quantity. If its stored
for a long period, you may find it is 20-30% water. Not only that, since the water is
precipitated from the
Quit when you ned glasses.
As a student, I had a horn whose valves would "sludge up" on
occasion. I would give it an alchohol rinse from time to time & it
freed them up considerably. I added red food coloring in the
alchohol bottle and would rinse & rinse & rinse till the water came
out colo
Shampoo is detergent. Quite different from soap, but there are also some specialty
soaps, like Murphy's, that you might be refering to.
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On 9/10/04 1:18 PM, "Ray and Sonja Crenshaw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Oh, I would tell you about the axle grease on the tuning slides, but perhaps
> another day.
That's funny that you should mention that; it's exactly what I use. One tub
of it from AutoZone is enough to last a lifetime!
-Car
Ultra high vacuum grease works well on slides. Apiazon is my favorite, but a bit
pricey unless you have a free source opened tubes.
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In a message dated 9/10/04 7:16:25 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> So the
> question is has anyone tried an alcohol rinse (in addition to general
> cleaning I suppose) and would it be of any help in routine cleaning??
>
Robert,
The cleaning of the valves and slides with alcohol before storin
+353 1 6081817
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 11 September 2004 05:03
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Valve Cleaning Class
In a message dated 9/10/04 7:16:25 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> So the
>
While I agree that many if not most of the "valve oils" are nothing but a
kerosene cut, sometimes not even deodorized, some of them are different. For
example, while the "synthetics" start out as petroleum distillates, that is
just a starting point--you have to start somewhere. They don't even mix
It is probably important to note here that most insurance policies do not
cover damage caused to your horn out of stupidity.
Any reference to some postings on this subject are not co- incidental.
Paul Navarro
Custom Horn
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In a message dated 9/11/2004 8:55:00 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> I tried using Rotor on my Finke, but it slowed the valves badly. Back to
> the
> 8:1 deodorized kerosene (lamp oil) and sewing machine oil.
>
The only Hetman that works on Finke valves is Light Piston.
; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> +353 1 6081817
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: 11 September 2004 05:03
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Valve Cleaning Class
>
>
ject: Re: [Hornlist] Valve Cleaning Class
When you clean the rotors and then put them back into a dirty horn with
corroded casings, isn`t that a little like changing a very dirty diaper
but not
washing off the little hinder?
Wes
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