In , on 01/07/2009
at 07:59 AM, Walt Farrell said:
>Thus, it was not -our- management making that policy, but an outside body
>making the policy, and we had to adhere to it or show why it should not
>apply to us.
The real question is what you do when you are complying with the published
exter
>>I have been in environments where management was afraid to challenge the
>>auditors. As a result, the auditor's word was law.
>BTDT, GTTS.
That is the worst possible scenario.
I've always challenged auditors, and documented all conversations to my
management.
Haven't been fired over that.
-
On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 15:25:57 -0600, Tom Marchant wrote:
>While I agree with you that auditors *should* only report compliance, that
>is certainly not always the case.
>
>I have been in environments where management was afraid to challenge the
>auditors. As a result, the auditor's word was law.
day, January 07, 2009 8:14 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Auditors (was: Survey says...)
In <5411f4eec9c68f4ca6f78821e685165a027dd...@htxmail.jhacorp.com>, on
01/06/2009
at 04:11 PM, Hal Merritt said:
>In many parts of the world, auditor behavior is spelled out in ISO
9000.
On Wed, 7 Jan 2009 10:10:49 -0500, Farley, Peter x23353
wrote:
>But don't any DLL's dealing with "long-name" elements or interfaces need
>to be stored in a PDSE? Or does the "pre-link" step always resolve that
>issue?
The pre-link (EDCPRLK) does handle the long-name stuff (using IMPORT
members
In <5411f4eec9c68f4ca6f78821e685165a027dd...@htxmail.jhacorp.com>, on
01/06/2009
at 04:11 PM, Hal Merritt said:
>In many parts of the world, auditor behavior is spelled out in ISO 9000.
"Crap is okay as long as you document that it is crap."
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JO
In
<110562328-1231275171-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-9239853...@bxe348.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>,
on 01/06/2009
at 08:52 PM, Ted MacNEIL said:
>That's the point.
>It's not their requirements; it's those determined by the company,
>through SME's.
Every time someone says "I don't be
--
Audits, especially external audits, carry a lot of weight. The
enforcement does not come from the auditors, but the audits do not seem
to be questioned. And the audit groups seem to have their own SME which
in some cases really stretch the
The prelink step is for resolving the long name issues. I did not work with
C++ but it works for PL/I and COBOL DLLs.
-Original Message-
From: Farley, Peter x23353
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Sent: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 4:10 pm
Subject: Re: DLL and PDS(E) (was: Survey says
On 7 Jan 2009 06:00:59 -0800, wfarr...@us.ibm.com (Walt Farrell)
wrote:
>While I generally support the position that auditors should not "make
>policy", having worked at a national bank previously I think there is an
>aspect of this discussion that no one has mentioned yet.
But many times policie
homas Berg
__
Thomas Berg Specialist IT-U SWEDBANK
> -Ursprungligt meddelande-
> Från: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
> [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] För Steve Comstock
> Skickat: den 7 januari 2009 15:03
> Till: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> Ämne: Re: SV: Survey says...
>
&
m-m...@bama.ua.edu] On
> Behalf Of Jan MOEYERSONS
> Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 6:09 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> Subject: Re: DLL and PDS(E) (was: Survey says...)
>
> On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 10:28:18 -0500, Farley, Peter x23353
> wrote:
>
> >6) Cannot do that her
On Wed, 7 Jan 2009 14:24:47 +, Ted MacNEIL wrote:
>>There can be different levels of "policy". For example, when the national
bank examiners (aka, "auditors") visited us they conducted audits according
to the policies established by the national body that chartered/insured our
>bank.
>
>It's
make life in mixing COBOL
and Java a lot easier.
Denis.
-Original Message-
From: Steve Comstock
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Sent: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 3:02 pm
Subject: Re: SV: Survey says...
Thomas Berg wrote:?
> But can You intermix non-DDLs and DLLs ??
> In the same li
>There can be different levels of "policy". For example, when the national
>bank examiners (aka, "auditors") visited us they conducted audits according to
>the policies established by the national body that chartered/insured our
bank.
It's the same in Canada.
But, the examiners don't make the p
Thomas Berg wrote:
But can You intermix non-DDLs and DLLs ?
In the same linkedit step ?
Or in the same "load module" ?
(Thats our problem !)
;)
Regards,
Thomas Berg
__
Thomas Berg Specialist IT-U SWEDBANK
No. From a single module, dynamic calls
On Wed, 7 Jan 2009 06:59:45 -0600, Chase, John wrote:
>Indeed. If management merely "rubber-stamps" whatever recommendations
>or suggestions auditors make, it certainly can create the appearance
>that the auditors are "running the show". That doesn't change the facts
>that management makes polic
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Hal Merritt
>
> In many parts of the world, auditor behavior is spelled out in ISO
9000.
> And, as I recall, that behavior is much like Ted's posts. Not so in
the
> US, it would seem. I wonder if that would account for
n: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
> [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] För Steve Comstock
> Skickat: den 6 januari 2009 16:44
> Till: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> Ämne: Re: Survey says...
>
> O'Brien, David W. (NIH/CIT) [C] wrote:
> > 5 followed by 3
>
>
>
> We
4!!
> -Ursprungligt meddelande-
> Från: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
> [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] För P S
> Skickat: den 6 januari 2009 16:03
> Till: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> Ämne: Survey says...
>
> I'm trying to judge the level of penetration o
On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 10:28:18 -0500, Farley, Peter x23353
wrote:
>6) Cannot do that here. DLL requires PDSE,
I don't belief that to be true... We are using DLLs (a lot) and have stored the
corresponding load modules (because in the end, that is what it becomes at
the end of the compile/pre-li
In a message dated 1/6/2009 3:35:56 P.M. Central Standard Time,
patrick.oke...@wamu.net writes:
I'm not alone in my ignorance and others might learn from the
answers to bonehead questions I might ask. I see this as a
good thing.
>>
There's professional help! Zoomerang.com has been doin
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On
> Behalf Of Thompson, Steve
> Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 4:30 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> Subject: Re: Survey says...
> Suppose that an ISV had a new release of their
itors. But
they are embracing it and ramming it down any handy throat.
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On
Behalf Of Ted MacNEIL
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 3:06 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Auditors (was: Survey says...
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On
Behalf Of Farley, Peter x23353
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 9:28 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Survey says...
6) Cannot do that here. DLL requires PDSE, and homegrown SDLC systems
here
On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 20:52:55 +, Ted MacNEIL wrote:
>Most, if not all, auditors are bound by confidentiality agreements.
>So, they can only report to the higher ups.
>
>...
>And, in most companies, they cannot enforce anything, only report.
I don't suppose you have any data to support those ass
On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 21:06:01 +, Ted MacNEIL
wrote:
>>I guess our mangement forgot to read the definitions. And come to
think of it, that has been true in every shop I've seen.
>
>Yes. But, who carries the hammer?
The management that called for the audits in the first place.
They have no way
---
P S wrote:
I'm trying to judge the level of penetration of the (relatively) new
DLL technology. So without getting into theology or categorical
imperatives, I'd be grateful if y'all could answer this question:
If you we
On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 19:43:51 +, Ted MacNEIL
wrote:
>...
>Also, must everybody reply to the list for surveys?
>...
I believe Darren's rules forbade us from resonding on-list to
surveys, but I think this is one survey that is worth having
public responses.
I expected the majority of respo
>I guess our mangement forgot to read the definitions. And come to think of it,
>that has been true in every shop I've seen.
Yes. But, who carries the hammer?
>Audits, especially external audits, carry a lot of weight. The enforcement
>does not come from the auditors, but the audits do not see
On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 20:37:06 +, Ted MacNEIL
wrote:
>...
>>> 2. Auditors don't approve; they report on compliance.
>
>>Maybe that's how it works where you live. It is different elsewhere.
>
>True auditors just report on compliance.
>SME's define.
>Compliance officers enforce.
>
>Anything else
>Yes, but who audits the auditors?
Qui custodius, costodianes?
People are allowed to re-but anything in an auditor report.
If they are inaccurate (PC for lying), there is always an out.
-
Too busy driving to stop for gas!
--
>Well, I suppose one could say that they report on how well you comply with
>-their- requirements.
That's the point.
It's not their requirements; it's those determined by the company, through
SME's.m
>One could also say that auditors don't approve. They do insist, though, and
>report perceive
Yes, but who audits the auditors?
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On
Behalf Of Ted MacNEIL
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 2:37 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Survey says...
True auditors just report on compliance.
SME&#
ll be made to comply. Resistance is Futile"
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On
Behalf Of Ted MacNEIL
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 1:37 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Survey says...
..snip
2. Auditors don't app
>> 1. Why?
>Because without using an approved tool a program/DLL cannot be put into
Production. Developers only turn over programs to QA and Operations,
they are not allowed to put them into production themselves. There is
only one path to perform that turnover, and only that approved path can
b
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On
> Behalf Of Ted MacNEIL
> Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 2:37 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> Subject: Re: Survey says...
>
> >Your target audience must have auditor-
>We can fix that.
I hate ads!
Also, must everybody reply to the list for surveys?
-
Too busy driving to stop for gas!
--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the
>Your target audience must have auditor-approved tools to produce a DLL before
>they can program it.
1. Why?
2. Auditors don't approve; they report on compliance.
-
Too busy driving to stop for gas!
--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / s
Survey says...
01/06/2009 10:03
[zosw...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 10:03 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Survey says...
I'm trying to judge the level of penetration of the (relatively) new
DLL technology. So without getting into theology or categorical
imperatives, I'd be grateful if y'all could
Hi RS,
1.
BobL
--
This e-mail transmission may contain information that is proprietary,
privileged and/or confidential and is intended exclusively for the person(s) to
whom it is addressed. Any use, copying, reten
ditor-approved tools to produce a DLL
before they can program it.
HTH
Peter
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On
> Behalf Of P S
> Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 10:03 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> Subject: Survey say
5 followed by 3
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of P S
[zosw...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 10:03 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Survey says...
I'm trying to judge the level of penetration o
5 - What's a DLL?
On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 10:03 AM, P S wrote:
> I'm trying to judge the level of penetration of the (relatively) new
> DLL technology. So without getting into theology or categorical
> imperatives, I'd be grateful if y'all could answer this question:
>
> If you were told that to
I'm trying to judge the level of penetration of the (relatively) new
DLL technology. So without getting into theology or categorical
imperatives, I'd be grateful if y'all could answer this question:
If you were told that to use a feature of a vendor product on z/OS,
you need to put some code in a
46 matches
Mail list logo
