Gil, did you misunderstand me, or I you? This ASCII-based IPA ~is~ good for
"audio" in the sense that it defines unambiguously how one is pronouncing a
word. I see "slough" and pronounce it /slu/; someone else sees it and says
/slaU/. I pronounce "caught" /cOt/ and "cot" /cat/; some people,
Somewhere, perhaps in Civil Air Patrol some decades ago, I got the impression
that one scheme has indeed become pretty standard, and in particular is used by
air-traffic control the world over, at least where English is spoken (which is
mostly). More recently I've read that it ain't
Shmuel wrote:
> IBM has always had a propensity for changing nomenclature, e.g. from Data
Management to Data Administration.
Of course.but they didn't change it here: they seemed to decide to use both.
That's even weirder.
Changing: zSeries, System z, z Systems, IBM Z, and (sort of)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on
>> behalf of Joe Monk
>> Sent: Monday, October 4, 2021 9:11 PM
>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>> Subject: Re: PL/I vs. JCL
>>
>> USS is a VTA
Subject: Re: PL/I vs. JCL
What is the title of this book?
https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/zos/2.3.0?topic=zos-unix-system-services
Joe
On Tue, Oct 5, 2021, 13:58 Ed Jaffe wrote:
> On 10/5/2021 9:56 AM, Seymour J Metz wrote:
> >
> > Further, the last post here from IBM on the issu
, October 5, 2021 3:10 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: PL/I vs. JCL
Joe: Are those eight books the only use of the term in IBM doc? Still
convincing-it's not like it's one isolated RedBook-but perhaps reflecting
that it was perhaps viewed as a mistake (or "Open MVS" was
Gc28-0629-1 vs2 3.7 11/15/76
Vtam unformatted system services (USS)
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of
Gibney, Dave
Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2021 2:07 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: PL/I vs. JCL
** EXTERNAL EMAIL - USE CAUTION
Joe: Are those eight books the only use of the term in IBM doc? Still
convincing-it's not like it's one isolated RedBook-but perhaps reflecting
that it was perhaps viewed as a mistake (or "Open MVS" was), but one that
was too hard to undo. Guessing we'll never know.
It is curious that "UNIX
From the 1st abstract:
z/OS UNIX System Services (z/OS UNIX)
Is IBM's preferred terminology
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On
> Behalf Of Joe Monk
> Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2021 12:02 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: PL/I
What is the title of this book?
https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/zos/2.3.0?topic=zos-unix-system-services
Joe
On Tue, Oct 5, 2021, 13:58 Ed Jaffe wrote:
> On 10/5/2021 9:56 AM, Seymour J Metz wrote:
> >
> > Further, the last post here from IBM on the issue said that USS was not
> an approved
On 10/5/2021 9:56 AM, Seymour J Metz wrote:
Further, the last post here from IBM on the issue said that USS was not an
approved abbreviation for Unix System Services.
Quite so. If you search for "USS" in IBM z/OS 2.5 documentation:
https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/search/USS?scope=SSLTBW_2.5.0
>alpha bravo charlie delta echo fox-trot golf hotel india juliet kilo
>lima mike november oscar papa quebec romeo sierra tango uniform victor
>whisky x-ray yankee zulu
In the older days there were more amateur radio operators among us. We
("radio hams") use a somewhat mixed set of phonetics, but
2021 9:11 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: PL/I vs. JCL
USS is a VTAM term for Unformatted System Services.
USS has always meant Unix System Services.
Joe
On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 7:30 PM Mike Schwab
wrote:
U.S.S. Unformated System Services, until Unix System Services tried
to ta
://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Joe Monk
Sent: Monday, October 4, 2021 9:11 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: PL/I vs. JCL
USS is a VTAM term for Unformatted System Services.
USS has always meant Unix
ttp://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Joe
Monk
Sent: Monday, October 4, 2021 9:11 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: PL/I vs. JCL
USS is a VTAM term for Unformatted System Services.
USS has always meant Unix Sys
FSVO "always."
Charles
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf
Of Joe Monk
Sent: Monday, October 4, 2021 6:11 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: PL/I vs. JCL
USS is a VTAM term for Unformatted System Serv
alpha bravo charlie delta echo fox-trot golf hotel india juliet kilo
lima mike november oscar papa quebec romeo sierra tango uniform victor
whisky x-ray yankee zulu
able baker charlie dog easy fox - were AFAIK part of the phonetic
alphabet used for the Allied invasion of Normandy in Operation
alpha
bravo
charlie
delta
echo
foxtrot
golf
hotel
india
juliet
kilo
mike
november
oscar
papa
quebec ("kay-bec")
romeo
sierra
tango
uniform
victor
whiskey
xray
yankee
zulu
On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 7:21 PM CM Poncelet wrote:
> able baker charlie dog easy fox
>
> On 04/10/2021 15:10, Paul Gilmartin
USS is a VTAM term for Unformatted System Services.
USS has always meant Unix System Services.
Joe
On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 7:30 PM Mike Schwab wrote:
> U.S.S. Unformated System Services, until Unix System Services tried
> to take it over.
>
> On Tue, Oct 5, 2021 at 1:24 AM Paul Gilmartin
>
On Mon, 4 Oct 2021 14:46:50 -0400, Bob Bridges wrote:
>I find that a lot, that tech-support people are fine with alpha-bravo-charlie.
> Most other people have to think about it; one is reduced to saying "em as in
>mike, vee as in victor, ess as in sierra" and so on.
>
Emergency responders
: PL/I vs. JCL
I believe what Skip was referring to was the actual TSO TMP, i.e. the TSO
address space or TCAS. The TSO READY prompt or an edit session are actually
being run in the separate TSO address space that TCAS created on my behalf.
Rex
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe
M-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: PL/I vs. JCL
On Mon, 4 Oct 2021 18:41:26 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:
>TSO originally supported up to 15 regions, and had its own swap dataset. This
>continued with SVS.
>
Is that, coincidentally, the same as the number of page protection keys?
> ... With OS
On Mon, 4 Oct 2021 18:41:26 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:
>TSO originally supported up to 15 regions, and had its own swap dataset. This
>continued with SVS.
>
Is that, coincidentally, the same as the number of page protection keys?
> ... With OS/VS2 R2, each user had its own address space
On Mon, 4 Oct 2021 11:34:38 -0700, Skip Robinson wrote:
>I've never actually encountered 'time sharing' in the flesh, but my
>understanding is that it involve(s/d) a single address space that multiple
>users logged on to. The monitor (or whatever the top dog was called) would
>divvy up resources
U.S.S. Unformated System Services, until Unix System Services tried
to take it over.
On Tue, Oct 5, 2021 at 1:24 AM Paul Gilmartin
<000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> On Mon, 4 Oct 2021 17:35:41 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:
>
> >While TSO does not support unambiguous
On Mon, 4 Oct 2021 17:35:41 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:
>While TSO does not support unambiguous truncation for command names, it does
>for keywords. I don't know about ICCF.
>
Unambiguous truncation is treacherous. Addition of new commands/keywords can
break
legacy art. For that reason I
able baker charlie dog easy fox
On 04/10/2021 15:10, Paul Gilmartin wrote:
> On Mon, 4 Oct 2021 09:35:39 -0400, Bob Bridges wrote:
>
>> Ok, I give up. I have favorite-newscaster stories, too, but I don't get
>> this one. What's an EFT cargo hatch? Is this so obvious a failure that
>> I'll be
On Behalf Of Joe
Monk
Sent: Monday, October 4, 2021 3:13 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: PL/I vs. JCL
"TSO/E OTOH gives each user her own address space with support directly from
the OS. 'TSO' handles only logon/logoff. Like CICS."
Oh really? So where does
used by the CPs and
TMP.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Joe
Monk
Sent: Monday, October 4, 2021 4:13 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: PL/I vs. JCL
"TSO/E OTOH
"TSO/E OTOH gives each user her own address space
with support directly from the OS. 'TSO' handles only logon/logoff. Like
CICS."
Oh really? So where does the READY prompt come from before you hop into
PDF? And what happens if you type EDIT 'DSNAME'? Whats running the EDIT
program?
Joe
On Mon,
I find that a lot, that tech-support people are fine with alpha-bravo-charlie.
Most other people have to think about it; one is reduced to saying "em as in
mike, vee as in victor, ess as in sierra" and so on. I'm long supposed that
tech-support people, and their ilk (sysprogs for instance),
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of
Skip Robinson
Sent: Monday, October 4, 2021 2:34 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: PL/I vs. JCL
I've never actually encountered 'time sharing' in the flesh, but my
understanding is that it involve(s/d) a single address space
I've never actually encountered 'time sharing' in the flesh, but my
understanding is that it involve(s/d) a single address space that multiple
users logged on to. The monitor (or whatever the top dog was called) would
divvy up resources among users and dispatch them. In other words, it looked
a
ddname and
member.
YMMV
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Bob
Bridges
Sent: Saturday, October 2, 2021 9:35 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: PL/I vs. JCL
No, I think
<000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Sunday, October 3, 2021 9:22 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: PL/I vs. JCL
On Sat, 2 Oct 2021 20:56:43 -0700, Charles Mills wrote:
>I have no problem with the DD/member ambiguity:
>
>1. If it's a personal tool an
Robinson
Sent: Sunday, October 3, 2021 12:37 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: PL/I vs. JCL
Newbie auditors are notorious for 'spelling out' abbreviations that over
the decades have become actual names. And yes, idiocy is only one
consequence. The result can be gibberish.
My favorite basket
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of
Paul Gilmartin <000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Sunday, October 3, 2021 1:22 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: PL/I vs. JCL
On Sun, 3 Oct 2021 09:37:00 -0700, Skip Robinson wrote:
>Newbie
if they are a bit long winded.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of
Skip Robinson
Sent: Sunday, October 3, 2021 3:37 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: PL/I vs. JCL
Having wrestled
On Mon, 4 Oct 2021 10:49:10 -0400, Phil Smith III wrote:
>
>? Limiting how? If you mean "z/OS and predecessors", that's always worked
>for me. Yes, MVS is a component of z/OS, as is USS. (Hey, let's debate "USS"
>again-no, wait, let's not.)
>
USS is a component of z/OS. And BSD UNIX is a
Bob,
Think Canadian - "eh"=A. :-) The back door lock either broke or somebody
forgot to close it.
Rex
On 10/4/2021 6:35 AM, Bob Bridges wrote:
> Ok, I give up. I have favorite-newscaster stories, too, but I don't get this
> one. What's an EFT cargo hatch? Is this so obvious a failure
eh = A
AFT = Aft
On 10/4/2021 6:35 AM, Bob Bridges wrote:
Ok, I give up. I have favorite-newscaster stories, too, but I don't get this
one. What's an EFT cargo hatch? Is this so obvious a failure that I'll be
required by law to kick myself when it's explained to me, or something that
only
That's a good one, Bob! We've all done that kind o' thing and it's just
amazing afterward--you just can't believe you did it!
On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 9:21 AM Bob Bridges wrote:
> Decades ago I was at Burlington Industries -- at the time almost every
> programmer in the area passed through
Charles wrote:
>Saying MVS makes you look old-fashioned, even though MVS still exists
>(I guess?) as a component of z/OS. Saying z/OS is limiting.
? Limiting how? If you mean "z/OS and predecessors", that's always worked
for me. Yes, MVS is a component of z/OS, as is USS. (Hey, let's debate
On Mon, 4 Oct 2021 13:41:54 +, Cameron Conacher wrote:
>Honestly, I do not know, but I read it as A F T cargo hatch.
>
I guess only the Irish can understand each other.
On Mon, 4 Oct 2021 14:05:36 +, Pew, Curtis G wrote:
> ... “MVS datasets” ...
>
ITYM “MVS data sets”
-- gil
@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Phil Smith III
Sent: Sunday, October 3, 2021 7:08 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: PL/I vs. JCL
Charles Mills wrote:
>I once had an all-out war (I won! I was the president!) with a tech writer
who insisted that the
>documentation should spell out Multiple V
On Mon, 4 Oct 2021 09:35:39 -0400, Bob Bridges wrote:
>Ok, I give up. I have favorite-newscaster stories, too, but I don't get this
>one. What's an EFT cargo hatch? Is this so obvious a failure that I'll be
>required by law to kick myself when it's explained to me, or something that
>only
On Oct 3, 2021, at 1:34 PM, Charles Mills wrote:
>
> Agreed. Saying MVS makes you look old-fashioned, even though MVS still exists
> (I guess?) as a component of z/OS. Saying z/OS is limiting.
Lots of IBM manuals still say MVS when talking about that component. I find it
convenient, for
: [External] Re: PL/I vs. JCL
Ok, I give up. I have favorite-newscaster stories, too, but I don't get this
one. What's an EFT cargo hatch? Is this so obvious a failure that I'll be
required by law to kick myself when it's explained to me, or something that
only pilots know, or what?
---
Bob
Just to pick nits, it seems to me that time-sharing is alive and well on all
mainframes, and especially in TSO. The whole point of TSO was that multiple
users could be on-line simultaneously, which hadn't always been the case. TSO
allowed us to log on, and stay on, and do foreground work
Ok, I give up. I have favorite-newscaster stories, too, but I don't get this
one. What's an EFT cargo hatch? Is this so obvious a failure that I'll be
required by law to kick myself when it's explained to me, or something that
only pilots know, or what?
---
Bob Bridges,
I have long told recruiters that the generic name for that whole line of
operating systems is "MVS", in the same way that "Windows" denotes lots of old
versions and not just the ones with "Windows" in the name. As an Official Old
Guy I've said "MVS" for years even when we're talking about
Decades ago I was at Burlington Industries -- at the time almost every
programmer in the area passed through Burlington Industries and/or other
textiles companies, one or more times -- and they brought in a new platform to
run factory processes. We were all busy reading the manuals for a week
our J.) Metz
> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
>
>
>
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf
> of Charles Mills
> Sent: Sunday, October 3, 2021 9:58 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: PL/I vs. JCL
>
> > I don't abbreviate in documentation or discuss
Charles Mills wrote:
>I once had an all-out war (I won! I was the president!) with a tech writer who
>insisted that the
>documentation should spell out Multiple Virtual Systems on the first reference
>to MVS (in technical
>documentation for a hardcore mainframe product). My position was that
on behalf of
Charles Mills
Sent: Sunday, October 3, 2021 9:58 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: PL/I vs. JCL
> I don't abbreviate in documentation or discussion.
Hmmm. I think referring to the console command P resonates with people more
than STOP. I wonder if people do not recognize XMI
Gilmartin <000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Sunday, October 3, 2021 1:50 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: PL/I vs. JCL
On Sun, 3 Oct 2021 06:58:42 -0700, Charles Mills wrote:
>
>I once had an all-out war (I won! I was the president!) with a tech writer wh
e. Someone will sure
hasten to correct me if I am wrong.
Charles
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU]
On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Sunday, October 3, 2021 8:10 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Abbrev. (was: PL/I vs. JCL)
On
ure hasten to
correct me if I am wrong.
Charles
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf
Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Sunday, October 3, 2021 8:10 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Abbrev. (was: PL/I vs. JCL)
On Sun, 3 Oct 202
."
> "Telum"
> "Tell 'em what?"
> "The name of the chip."
> "I don't know the name of the chip."
> "Telum"
>
> Charles
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA
General Tee-esS-Oh is a favorite IT dad joke around here. (Never in front
of a waiter.) BTW that dish has nothing to do with the historical general
nor with Hunan, his home base.
On Sun, Oct 3, 2021 at 10:22 AM Paul Gilmartin <
000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> On Sun, 3
uot;
"Telum"
Charles
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf
Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Sunday, October 3, 2021 10:50 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: PL/I vs. JCL
On Sun, 3 Oct 2021 06:58:42 -0700, Charles M
General Tee-esS-Oh is a favorite IT dad joke around here. (Never in front
of a waiter.) BTW that dish has nothing to do with the historical general
nor with Hunan, his home base.
On Sun, Oct 3, 2021 at 10:22 AM Paul Gilmartin <
000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> On Sun, 3
On Sun, 3 Oct 2021 13:48:37 -0400, Phil Smith III wrote:
>...
>From the USS side, support DD:ddname as a filename and you're good (from C
>I'm not actually sure you can avoid supporting that). We have such a use
>case and have never had a problem with it.
>
No. "date >//DD:SYSPRINT" (or many
On Sun, 3 Oct 2021 06:58:42 -0700, Charles Mills wrote:
>
>I once had an all-out war (I won! I was the president!) with a tech writer who
>insisted that the documentation should spell out Multiple Virtual Systems on
>the first reference to MVS (in technical documentation for a hardcore
Charles wrote:
>I wrote a (successful!) product that in one very peripheral feature took an
>operand that could represent a member name in a default PDS, a dataset
name,
>or a zFS file name. I differentiated among the three based on length and
the
>presence or absence of periods and/or slashes.
On Sun, 3 Oct 2021 09:37:00 -0700, Skip Robinson wrote:
>Newbie auditors are notorious for 'spelling out' abbreviations that over
>the decades have become actual names. And yes, idiocy is only one
>consequence. The result can be gibberish.
>
A long time favorite is a local newscaster who read a
Charles
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Sunday, October 3, 2021 6:23 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: PL/I vs. JCL
On Sat, 2 Oct 2021 20:56:43 -0700, Charles Mills wrote:
I have no pro
On 10/3/2021 9:37 AM, Skip Robinson wrote:
Another favorite is 'JES'. Nobody spells it out.
IBM spells it out in every JES2 manual e.g.,
https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/zos/2.5.0?topic=jes2-zos-introduction
"This information provides an introduction to the job entry subsystem 2
(JES2)."
On 10/3/2021 6:58 AM, Charles Mills wrote:
I once had an all-out war (I won! I was the president!) with a tech writer who
insisted that the documentation should spell out Multiple Virtual Systems on
the first reference to MVS (in technical documentation for a hardcore mainframe
product). My
s look like
> idiots.
>
> Charles
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin
> Sent: Sunday, October 3, 2021 6:23 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: PL/I vs. JCL
e mainframe product). My position was that it made us look like
> idiots.
>
> Charles
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin
> Sent: Sunday, October 3, 2021 6:23 AM
> To: IBM
Gilmartin
Sent: Sunday, October 3, 2021 8:10 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Abbrev. (was: PL/I vs. JCL)
On Sun, 3 Oct 2021 10:02:46 -0400, David Spiegel wrote:
>Hi Charles,
>I guess that nobody bothered to tell the tech writer that the "S" in
>MVS, is an abbreviation for &
Umm, we can probably blame my memory, not the tech writer, for that one.
Charles
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf
Of David Spiegel
Sent: Sunday, October 3, 2021 7:03 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: PL/I vs
On Sun, 3 Oct 2021 10:02:46 -0400, David Spiegel wrote:
>Hi Charles,
>I guess that nobody bothered to tell the tech writer that the "S" in
>MVS, is an abbreviation for "Storage".
>
Decades ago, I learned "Segments", and I've thought that ever since.
I may never have uttered it. But, GIYF (sic),
lmartin
Sent: Sunday, October 3, 2021 6:23 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: PL/I vs. JCL
On Sat, 2 Oct 2021 20:56:43 -0700, Charles Mills wrote:
I have no problem with the DD/member ambiguity:
1. If it's a personal tool and you are happy with the ambiguity, then you
are happy.
2
nal Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf
Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Sunday, October 3, 2021 6:23 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: PL/I vs. JCL
On Sat, 2 Oct 2021 20:56:43 -0700, Charles Mills wrote:
>I have no problem with the DD/
On Sat, 2 Oct 2021 20:56:43 -0700, Charles Mills wrote:
>I have no problem with the DD/member ambiguity:
>
>1. If it's a personal tool and you are happy with the ambiguity, then you
>are happy.
>2. If it's a "product" then you just document which takes priority.
>
o z/VM CP and CMS with their
: Saturday, October 2, 2021 6:36 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: PL/I vs. JCL
No, I think it's possible (though unlikely) for a string to represent both
at the same time. If nothing else, the TSO alias that's used to catalogue
my datasets is a dataset, sort of, isn't it? So if I allocate
No, I think it's possible (though unlikely) for a string to represent both
at the same time. If nothing else, the TSO alias that's used to catalogue
my datasets is a dataset, sort of, isn't it? So if I allocate a DD named
BBRIDGE, and then ask DSDD about BBRIDGE, it would at that time be both a
Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of
Skip Robinson
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2021 10:37 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: PL/I vs. JCL
Even a dead horse needs a tail. Parsing CLIST parms involves more than
sorting out characters and delimiters. There are (my terminology) three
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: PL/I vs. JCL
I would never have seen this in advance, but one advantage I found when
switching to REXX is that I'm almost eliminated positional parms from my
commands. In all but a few cases, the program can tell what it is by looking
at it. Thus
I would never have seen this in advance, but one advantage I found when
switching to REXX is that I'm almost eliminated positional parms from my
commands. In all but a few cases, the program can tell what it is by looking
at it. Thus every user can enter the arguments in the order that seems
More than once I coded short CLIST front-ends to ASM programs in order
to avoid IKJPARS while still doing the input processing you mentioned.
The clist would poke the results in a single string for the assembler
program to easily grab by offsets.
On 9/30/2021 7:37 PM, Skip Robinson wrote:
]
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2021 5:23 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: PL/I vs. JCL
A number of people have responded but not actually spelled out the reason. A
comment in the first line containing "REXX" is required if the module resides
in a //SYSPROC DD -- and n
] on behalf of Bob
Bridges [robhbrid...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2021 7:14 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: PL/I vs. JCL
I once wrote an external routine that can break a character string into various
individual parms and return them on the stack. It correctly parses
Even a dead horse needs a tail. Parsing CLIST parms involves more than
sorting out characters and delimiters. There are (my terminology) three
kinds of parms.
1. Positional parms
2. Keyword switch parms
3, Keyword value parms
Positional parms must come first in the order coded in the exec. Each
I once wrote an external routine that can break a character string into various
individual parms and return them on the stack. It correctly parses strings
with quotes, parens and comment markers.
But as you say, even I hardly ever use it. Most routines work perfectly well
with a string of
A number of people have responded but not actually spelled out the reason. A
comment in the first line containing "REXX" is required if the module resides
in a //SYSPROC DD -- and not if it's in the //SYSEXEC DD -- because //SYSPROC
modules are interpreted by default by the CLIST interpreter
of
Skip Robinson [jo.skip.robin...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2021 3:11 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: PL/I vs. JCL
90% of execs are run by general users 90% of the time, either explicitly
from 'command line' or implicitly from an ISPF panel. Some of these folks
may
ainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf
> of Skip Robinson [jo.skip.robin...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2021 1:48 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: PL/I vs. JCL
>
> Is that operand required?
>
> On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at
@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: PL/I vs. JCL
I forgot a point I meant to make in this reply. We discussed how to run
CLIST or REXX directly from a source PDS without benefit of SYSPROC or
SYSEXEC. There are several products in a z/OS configuration that are
delivered by the vendor with a self contained
com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2021 1:48 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: PL/I vs. JCL
Is that operand required?
On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 10:12 AM Seymour J Metz wrote:
> By directly, do you mean explicit use of EXEC? There's an operand to
> distinguish CLIST from REXX.
>
>
&
29, 2021 3:01 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: PL/I vs. JCL
An EX 'dsn(member)' would require no /* REXX */ card if 'dsn' is
allocated to DDNAME=SYSEXEC in the user's TSO logon PROC, but would
require it if is allocated to DDNAME=SYSPROC in ditto.
The OS first checks whether a SYSEXEC
PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: PL/I vs. JCL
Not sure we got here from 'PLI', but so be it. I was deeply embedded in
CLIST writing by the time REXX made its way to TSO/E. Here are a few points
I haven't seen from others.
-- CLIST was modeled or at least inspired by the TSO command
me Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of
Paul Gilmartin [000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2021 1:51 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: PL/I vs. JCL
On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 17:11:50 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:
>By directly, do
wrote:
>
>> That's why we get the big bucks.
>>
>> Charles
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
>> Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2021 11:01 AM
>&
September 29, 2021 11:01 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: PL/I vs. JCL
>
> On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 10:48:53 -0700, Skip Robinson wrote:
>
> >Is that operand required?
> >
> Only sometimes. IBM made it as compli
That's why we get the big bucks.
Charles
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf
Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2021 11:01 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: PL/I vs. JCL
On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 10:48
Hm, not a bad point, Andrew. I should maybe keep it in mind when I write for
others, or when something I write for myself may eventually get into the public
domain.
---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313
/* Why don't our civics courses teach pupils what the word "usurped"
muel (Seymour J.) Metz
>> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
>>
>>
>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf
>> of Phil Smith III [li...@akphs.com]
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2021 10:06 AM
>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>&
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