Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: Short syntax for Arrays (redux)

2011-06-02 Thread Ferenc Kovacs
On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 12:09 AM, Sean Coates s...@seancoates.com wrote: Now, the only reason I would personally support the array shortcut is if it was an implementation of JSON. I know that's not on the table here I don't think anything is officially off the table, unless we forego

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: RFC: Short syntax for Arrays (redux)

2011-06-02 Thread Gwynne Raskind
On Jun 1, 2011, at 7:35 AM, Derick Rethans wrote: But only if you keep it consistent, PHP has always been using = for key/val association, I don't see any reason to suddenly provide key: val, unless what you want is to confuse people. Yes, definitely = vs. : in any case. +1 to this. --

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: Short syntax for Arrays (redux)

2011-06-02 Thread Eloy Bote Falcon
2011/6/2 Sanford Whiteman swhitemanlistens-softw...@cypressintegrated.com I don't think anyone cares about JSON for the sake of being perfect JSON, I didn't intend to give that impression. Then you should stop saying pure JSON and true JSON constantly! I'm only hoping for something

RE: [PHP-DEV] RFC: Short syntax for Arrays (redux)

2011-06-02 Thread Ford, Mike
-Original Message- From: Michael Shadle [mailto:mike...@gmail.com] Sent: 01 June 2011 21:37 On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 1:01 PM, Pierre Joye pierre@gmail.com wrote: I modified the vote page, pls move your votes to the desired syntax (or global -1) This is a good idea to

Re: [PHP-DEV] Final version, RFC release process

2011-06-02 Thread Pierre Joye
On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 7:32 AM, Peter Lind peter.e.l...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry for jumping into the thread, but I couldn't help noting that you seem confused about the distro suggestion. I think Ubuntu was the example, and there's nothing random at all about their release process. There are

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: Short syntax for Arrays (redux)

2011-06-02 Thread Alain Williams
On Thu, Jun 02, 2011 at 08:21:37AM +, Ford, Mike wrote: Back on the soapbox. All of this is just to reduce typing array (5 characters) before things? Not here. For me, the shorter syntax is simply an order of magnitude more readable. I really don't care how much typing is involved +1

Re: [PHP-DEV] Final version, RFC release process

2011-06-02 Thread David Muir
On 02/06/11 17:23, Pierre Joye wrote: On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 7:32 AM, Peter Lind peter.e.l...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry for jumping into the thread, but I couldn't help noting that you seem confused about the distro suggestion. I think Ubuntu was the example, and there's nothing random at all

Re: [PHP-DEV] Final version, RFC release process

2011-06-02 Thread Reindl Harald
Am 02.06.2011 11:36, schrieb David Muir: That said, I'm not sure if an LTS is a good idea. One of the biggest frustrations for me as a developer is hosts taking forever to upgrade to newer versions of PHP. Most hosts I've seen are still on 5.2, and some don't seem to have plans of upgrading

RE: [PHP-DEV] RFC: Short syntax for Arrays (redux)

2011-06-02 Thread Ford, Mike
-Original Message- From: John Crenshaw [mailto:johncrens...@priacta.com] Sent: 01 June 2011 23:00 Spot on. It has nothing to do with extra typing (and that sort of design is part of what ruined Ruby). My fingers move plenty fast and if extra characters make things more safe or more

Re: [PHP-DEV] Final version, RFC release process

2011-06-02 Thread Peter Lind
On 2 June 2011 10:23, Pierre Joye pierre@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 7:32 AM, Peter Lind peter.e.l...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry for jumping into the thread, but I couldn't help noting that you seem confused about the distro suggestion. I think Ubuntu was the example, and there's

[PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Notice on array to string convertion

2011-06-02 Thread Patrick ALLAERT
Hi, I would like to introduce an E_NOTICE when an array is silently converted to a string. This isn't very useful as it constantly produces the following string: Array and in most of the case, this is a sign of an error. Let me know about your feelings. Patch implementing that behavior change:

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Notice on array to string convertion

2011-06-02 Thread Alain Williams
On Thu, Jun 02, 2011 at 12:19:36PM +0200, Patrick ALLAERT wrote: Hi, I would like to introduce an E_NOTICE when an array is silently converted to a string. This isn't very useful as it constantly produces the following string: Array and in most of the case, this is a sign of an error.

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Notice on array to string convertion

2011-06-02 Thread Reindl Harald
Am 02.06.2011 12:19, schrieb Patrick ALLAERT: I would like to introduce an E_NOTICE when an array is silently converted to a string. what is new? a fatal error would be better here error_reporting = E_ALL | E_STRICT google: Notice: Array to string conversion signature.asc Description:

Re: [PHP-DEV] Final version, RFC release process

2011-06-02 Thread Sebastian Bergmann
Am 01.06.2011 14:44, schrieb Johannes Schlüter: I mentioned this before: I like the Ubuntu model: * One development branch for the next version * One current version * One long term supported version +1 The current version is aimed to give early access to new features, to avoid cases

[PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Notice on array to string convertion

2011-06-02 Thread Patrick ALLAERT
Hi, I would like to introduce an E_NOTICE when an array is silently converted to a string. This isn't very useful as it constantly produces the following string: Array and in most of the case, this is a sign of an error. Let me know about your feelings. Patch implementing that behavior change:

Re: [PHP-DEV] Final version, RFC release process

2011-06-02 Thread Pierre Joye
On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 11:51 AM, Peter Lind peter.e.l...@gmail.com wrote: On 2 June 2011 10:23, Pierre Joye pierre@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 7:32 AM, Peter Lind peter.e.l...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry for jumping into the thread, but I couldn't help noting that you seem confused

Re: [PHP-DEV] Final version, RFC release process

2011-06-02 Thread Pierre Joye
On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 12:08 PM, Sebastian Bergmann sebast...@php.net wrote: The current version is aimed to give early access to new features, to avoid cases like traits which take years to come out while a bit more conservative users (and maybe distros) may stay on the LTS.  Traits is a

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: Short syntax for Arrays (redux)

2011-06-02 Thread Arvids Godjuks
2011/6/2 Ford, Mike m.f...@leedsmet.ac.uk: -Original Message- From: John Crenshaw [mailto:johncrens...@priacta.com] Sent: 01 June 2011 23:00 skip 4. The format most consistent with other languages is JSON Again, matter of experience. Last time I counted, I'd used upward of 30

Re: [PHP-DEV] Final version, RFC release process

2011-06-02 Thread Peter Lind
On 2 June 2011 12:40, Pierre Joye pierre@gmail.com wrote: *snip* No, it is the same that what we proposed. What we proposed is that every release is actually a LTS release. What Ubuntu uses works fine for distros given that it is a distro with an insane amount of totally unrelated

Re: [PHP-DEV] Final version, RFC release process

2011-06-02 Thread Pierre Joye
On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 1:01 PM, Peter Lind peter.e.l...@gmail.com wrote: On 2 June 2011 12:40, Pierre Joye pierre@gmail.com wrote: *snip* No, it is the same that what we proposed. What we proposed is that every release is actually a LTS release. What Ubuntu uses works fine for distros

Re: [PHP-DEV] Final version, RFC release process

2011-06-02 Thread Peter Lind
On 2 June 2011 13:03, Pierre Joye pierre@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 1:01 PM, Peter Lind peter.e.l...@gmail.com wrote: On 2 June 2011 12:40, Pierre Joye pierre@gmail.com wrote: *snip* No, it is the same that what we proposed. What we proposed is that every release is

Re: [PHP-DEV] Final version, RFC release process

2011-06-02 Thread Pierre Joye
On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 1:15 PM, Peter Lind peter.e.l...@gmail.com wrote: On 2 June 2011 13:03, Pierre Joye pierre@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 1:01 PM, Peter Lind peter.e.l...@gmail.com wrote: On 2 June 2011 12:40, Pierre Joye pierre@gmail.com wrote: *snip* No, it is the

Re: [PHP-DEV] Final version, RFC release process

2011-06-02 Thread Christian Kaps
Am 02.06.2011 13:15, schrieb Peter Lind: Anyway, I'll stop it here, as I doubt I'll convince you of anything (and vice versa). Just one thing to add: thanks for the work on PHP :) Much appreciated. I think/hope that this RFC is a step in the right direction to make the release process

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Notice on array to string convertion

2011-06-02 Thread Hannes Magnusson
On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 12:11, Patrick ALLAERT patrickalla...@php.net wrote: Hi, I would like to introduce an E_NOTICE when an array is silently converted to a string. This isn't very useful as it constantly produces the following string: Array and in most of the case, this is a sign of an

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Notice on array to string convertion

2011-06-02 Thread Hannes Landeholm
I don't there's a good general case for this. I'd +1 on throwing E_NOTICE. Hannes On 2 June 2011 13:54, Hannes Magnusson hannes.magnus...@gmail.com wrote: How about making it useful rather then just throwing an notice? Recursive implode maybe? Or json/php serialized? :) -Hannes -- PHP

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Notice on array to string convertion

2011-06-02 Thread Gustavo Lopes
Em Thu, 02 Jun 2011 12:54:10 +0100, Hannes Magnusson hannes.magnus...@gmail.com escreveu: On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 12:11, Patrick ALLAERT patrickalla...@php.net wrote: I would like to introduce an E_NOTICE when an array is silently converted to a string. This isn't very useful as it

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Notice on array to string convertion

2011-06-02 Thread Reindl Harald
Am 02.06.2011 13:54, schrieb Hannes Magnusson: On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 12:11, Patrick ALLAERT patrickalla...@php.net wrote: Hi, I would like to introduce an E_NOTICE when an array is silently converted to a string. This isn't very useful as it constantly produces the following string:

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Notice on array to string convertion

2011-06-02 Thread Rune Kaagaard
this conversion should never happen and throw a fatal error since this action is destructive to data and never useful nor will warnings/notices helps in the real world Unlike i.e. Python its really not the PHP way to go fatal on the developer during weird type conversions. I'm also +1 on the

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Notice on array to string convertion

2011-06-02 Thread Reindl Harald
Am 02.06.2011 14:56, schrieb Rune Kaagaard: this conversion should never happen and throw a fatal error since this action is destructive to data and never useful nor will warnings/notices helps in the real world Unlike i.e. Python its really not the PHP way to go fatal on the developer

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Notice on array to string convertion

2011-06-02 Thread John LeSueur
On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 6:24 AM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.netwrote: Am 02.06.2011 13:54, schrieb Hannes Magnusson: On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 12:11, Patrick ALLAERT patrickalla...@php.net wrote: Hi, I would like to introduce an E_NOTICE when an array is silently converted to a

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Notice on array to string convertion

2011-06-02 Thread Reindl Harald
Am 02.06.2011 15:04, schrieb John LeSueur: On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 6:24 AM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.netwrote: First, I agree that converting to json/imploding would be a bad idea. There's no guarantee that the developer wanted to use the array in that way, or even that he wanted to

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Notice on array to string convertion

2011-06-02 Thread Marcel Esser
3 yes please. Sent from my iBrain, powered by Panda. On Jun 2, 2011, at 6:19 AM, Patrick ALLAERT patrick.alla...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I would like to introduce an E_NOTICE when an array is silently converted to a string. This isn't very useful as it constantly produces the following

RE: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Notice on array to string convertion

2011-06-02 Thread John Crenshaw
E_NOTICE. The current conversion is so completely useless, that whenever it happens, it is almost certainly an error. Any implicit conversion here would perpetuate problems in code that was probably wrong in the first place. John Crenshaw Priacta, Inc. -Original Message- From: John

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Notice on array to string convertion

2011-06-02 Thread Patrick ALLAERT
2011/6/2 Hannes Magnusson hannes.magnus...@gmail.com: How about making it useful rather then just throwing an notice? Recursive implode maybe? Or json/php serialized? :) As already mentioned, that would be a much bigger BC break which would requires RFC, voting, ... Not that I am against, the

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Notice on array to string convertion

2011-06-02 Thread Pierre Joye
hi, I like this for the current stable branch, no bc impact and gives a way to detect such mistakes (not ideal but better than nothing). Cheers, On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 12:11 PM, Patrick ALLAERT patrickalla...@php.net wrote: Hi, I would like to introduce an E_NOTICE when an array is silently

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Notice on array to string convertion

2011-06-02 Thread Patrick ALLAERT
2011/6/2 Rune Kaagaard rumi...@gmail.com: this conversion should never happen and throw a fatal error since this action is destructive to data and never useful nor will warnings/notices helps in the real world Unlike i.e. Python its really not the PHP way to go fatal on the developer during

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Notice on array to string convertion

2011-06-02 Thread Brian Moon
I like this for the current stable branch, no bc impact and gives a way to detect such mistakes (not ideal but better than nothing). On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 12:11 PM, Patrick ALLAERTpatrickalla...@php.net wrote: Hi, I would like to introduce an E_NOTICE when an array is silently converted to a

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Notice on array to string convertion

2011-06-02 Thread Patrick ALLAERT
2011/6/2 Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net: Am 02.06.2011 15:04, schrieb John LeSueur: On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 6:24 AM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.netwrote: First, I agree that converting to json/imploding would be a bad idea. There's no guarantee that the developer wanted to use the

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Notice on array to string convertion

2011-06-02 Thread Patrick ALLAERT
2011/6/2 Brian Moon br...@moonspot.net: I like this for the current stable branch, no bc impact and gives a way to detect such mistakes (not ideal but better than nothing). On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 12:11 PM, Patrick ALLAERTpatrickalla...@php.net  wrote: Hi, I would like to introduce an

[PHP-DEV] RFC: Short syntax for Arrays (redux)

2011-06-02 Thread David Coallier
Even though I have quite mixed feelings about this, I think I am finally ready to cast my +1. Over the past few days I've discussed with a few people and noticed the need, or rather a strong desire to have this feature in PHP and most people seemed to care only little about how it was done as long

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Notice on array to string convertion

2011-06-02 Thread Alain Williams
On Thu, Jun 02, 2011 at 04:07:25PM +0200, Patrick ALLAERT wrote: Not true. Here is a valid example that would break after implementing this as en error. if ($x == Array) { array_walk( $x, print_r ); } I'm not saying that this is good code, I'm only saying that this would break BC

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Notice on array to string convertion

2011-06-02 Thread Marcel Esser
I am not convinced that making this an error is a good idea. If I receive a $_GET/$_POST value that I expect to be a string value, but I actually received an array, this would mean I need to now explicitly check for it, since it will stop the runtime otherwise. Example:

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Notice on array to string convertion

2011-06-02 Thread Ole Markus With
On Thu, 02 Jun 2011 15:38:00 +0200, Brian Moon br...@moonspot.net wrote: I like this for the current stable branch, no bc impact and gives a way to detect such mistakes (not ideal but better than nothing). On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 12:11 PM, Patrick ALLAERTpatrickalla...@php.net wrote: Hi, I

[PHP-DEV] Re: Request for Comments: Release Process: version numbering

2011-06-02 Thread Tomas Creemers
Hi all, I've just read the Release Process RFC (https://wiki.php.net/rfc/releaseprocess) and have a suggestion regarding this part of the version numbering scheme: x.y.z to x.y+1.z. I believe x.y.z to x.y+1.0 is much more clear and common and less of a departure from the current numbering

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Notice on array to string convertion

2011-06-02 Thread Justin Carmony
+1 Sent from my iPhone On Jun 2, 2011, at 4:19 AM, Patrick ALLAERT patrick.alla...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I would like to introduce an E_NOTICE when an array is silently converted to a string. This isn't very useful as it constantly produces the following string: Array and in most of the

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Notice on array to string convertion

2011-06-02 Thread Tomas Creemers
The choice between E_WARNING and E_NOTICE is simple if we look at the definitions of the levels (http://php.net/manual/en/errorfunc.constants.php). E_NOTICE is defined as Run-time notices. Indicate that the script encountered something that could indicate an error, but could also happen in the

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Notice on array to string convertion

2011-06-02 Thread Reindl Harald
Am 02.06.2011 16:24, schrieb Marcel Esser: I am not convinced that making this an error is a good idea. If I receive a $_GET/$_POST value that I expect to be a string value, but I actually received an array, this would mean I need to now explicitly check for it, since it will stop the

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Notice on array to string convertion

2011-06-02 Thread Marcel Esser
You don't need a form to receive bad user input. Also, I am not really inclined to write $v = isset($_POST['x']) ? (is_array($_POST['x']) ? 'something else that makes more sense' : $_POST['x'] ) : null; just to avoid catching a fatal. - M. On 6/2/2011 10:50 AM, Reindl Harald wrote: Am

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Notice on array to string convertion

2011-06-02 Thread Peter Lind
On 2 June 2011 16:50, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote: Am 02.06.2011 16:24, schrieb Marcel Esser: I am not convinced that making this an error is a good idea. If I receive a $_GET/$_POST value that I expect to be a string value, but I actually received an array, this would mean

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Notice on array to string convertion

2011-06-02 Thread Rune Kaagaard
Am 02.06.2011 14:56, schrieb Rune Kaagaard: this conversion should never happen and throw a fatal error since this action is destructive to data and never useful nor will warnings/notices helps in the real world I agree totally that such a conversion should never happen. If we could redesign

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Notice on array to string convertion

2011-06-02 Thread Reindl Harald
first rule of programming: sanitize user input if you EXPECT no array catch it Am 02.06.2011 16:54, schrieb Marcel Esser: You don't need a form to receive bad user input. Also, I am not really inclined to write $v = isset($_POST['x']) ? (is_array($_POST['x']) ? 'something else that makes

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Notice on array to string convertion

2011-06-02 Thread Philip Olson
On Jun 2, 2011, at 8:01 AM, Peter Lind wrote: On 2 June 2011 16:50, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote: Am 02.06.2011 16:24, schrieb Marcel Esser: I am not convinced that making this an error is a good idea. If I receive a $_GET/$_POST value that I expect to be a string value,

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Notice on array to string convertion

2011-06-02 Thread Marcel Esser
I agree entirely. Let me go ahead and fix these three billion man hours worth of code in use through-out the world. I'll be back shortly. - M. On 6/2/2011 11:19 AM, Reindl Harald wrote: first rule of programming: sanitize user input if you EXPECT no array catch it Am 02.06.2011 16:54,

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Notice on array to string convertion

2011-06-02 Thread Reindl Harald
Am 02.06.2011 17:01, schrieb Peter Lind: On 2 June 2011 16:50, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote: Am 02.06.2011 16:24, schrieb Marcel Esser: I am not convinced that making this an error is a good idea. If I receive a $_GET/$_POST value that I expect to be a string value, but I

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Notice on array to string convertion

2011-06-02 Thread Marcel Esser
I'm pretty sure you've never seen my code, so I am not going to comment on that. However, speaking not just for myself, two ternary operations and two functions calls to just prevent a stoppage code of execution, never mind input filtering for a second, is not entirely reasonable considering

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Notice on array to string convertion

2011-06-02 Thread Pierre Joye
may I suggest to both of you to continue this rant off line please? The initial question was rather simple and only about this specific case. And we seem to agree on the necessity to have a notice/warning here. That's the maximum we can do at this stage, both for 5.3 and 5.4. On Thu, Jun 2, 2011

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: Zend Signal Handling

2011-06-02 Thread Pierre Joye
hi Ilia, I would suggest to kill the TSRMLS_FETCH while being at it. They are horribly slow and a couple of them can be replaced by the TSRMLS_DC/CC, if I'm not mistaken. For the windows side, I do not have the time to do the equivalent, so if you commit the patch to trunk first so I can fix the

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: Short syntax for Arrays (redux)

2011-06-02 Thread Martin Scotta
Could we first go out with fully JSON compatible version for 5.4? and then later decide the = stuff based on how that worked. Native JSON is a big stuff for userland, and I'm pretty sure it will bring a hole of core version upgrades. Martin Scotta On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 7:09 PM, Sean Coates

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: Short syntax for Arrays (redux)

2011-06-02 Thread Pierre Joye
reminder #2, pls do vote here: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/shortsyntaxforarrays/vote some devs still did not choose which syntax they want. Thanks, On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 8:42 PM, Brian Moon br...@moonspot.net wrote: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/shortsyntaxforarrays -- Pierre @pierrejoye |

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Notice on array to string convertion

2011-06-02 Thread Patrick ALLAERT
2011/6/2 Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net: Am 02.06.2011 16:24, schrieb Marcel Esser: I am not convinced that making this an error is a good idea. If I receive a $_GET/$_POST value that I expect to be a string value, but I actually received an array, this would mean I need to now

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: Zend Signal Handling

2011-06-02 Thread Christopher Jones
On 05/31/2011 03:30 PM, Ilia Alshanetsky wrote: Since we are on the topic of reviewing past RFCs for 5.4, can we take another look at the Zend Signals RFC: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/zendsignals The patch is solid (have been using it in production for quite some time) and improvement is quite

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: Zend Signal Handling

2011-06-02 Thread Ilia Alshanetsky
Killing TSRMLS_FETCH is a noble goal, but let's keep it to once patch at a time please ;-) And for the record I am all for killing TSRMLS_FETCH. On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 6:04 PM, Pierre Joye pierre@gmail.com wrote: hi Ilia, I would suggest to kill the TSRMLS_FETCH while being at it. They are

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Notice on array to string convertion

2011-06-02 Thread Ilia Alshanetsky
I like the idea of an error message when this happens, but as few other people in the thread had mentioned, I think it should be a warning (E_WARNING) because the conversion results in data loss (content of the array is replaced with Array string). On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 12:11 PM, Patrick ALLAERT

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: Zend Signal Handling

2011-06-02 Thread Pierre Joye
On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 7:10 PM, Ilia Alshanetsky i...@prohost.org wrote: Killing TSRMLS_FETCH is a noble goal, but let's keep it to once patch at a time please ;-) I mean in this patch only. This patch adds a couple, so it can be done at the same time (afair these functions are not used heavily

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: Zend Signal Handling

2011-06-02 Thread Gustavo Lopes
Em Thu, 02 Jun 2011 18:10:50 +0100, Ilia Alshanetsky i...@prohost.org escreveu: Killing TSRMLS_FETCH is a noble goal, but let's keep it to once patch at a time please ;-) And for the record I am all for killing TSRMLS_FETCH. Is there any advantage in killing it as opposed to simply not use

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: Short syntax for Arrays (redux)

2011-06-02 Thread Sanford Whiteman
Also matter of opinion, and of experience. Apart from the fact that my use of jQuery amounts to a few weeks out of a (mumble)-year programming career, no I don't use pure JSON for it - Javascript object literals, yes, but not pure JSON. It's not just you. The claim that people

RE: [PHP-DEV] RFC: Short syntax for Arrays (redux)

2011-06-02 Thread John Crenshaw
There's no need to be rude. If you can't make your point without attacking people, then you need a better argument. JSON in this case just means a simple object notation using {, [, and :. You know that. Yes, we're all abusing the term, just like we all abuse AJAX, regardless of the fact that

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: Short syntax for Arrays (redux)

2011-06-02 Thread David Zülke
No we can't; I already explained why in another email last night. Copypasta: json_decode() can deal with Unicode sequences because decodes to UTF-8. That is not possible in a language construct: What if I do this, in a latin1 encoded file: $x = {foo: ä, bar: \u0123} Should that then give

[PHP-DEV] Local PHP docs with search facility

2011-06-02 Thread Richard Riley
Could some kind soul advise me on how to install php docs localy and have the excellent patterns search work based on an sqllite database? I have a local install but only full function names match but something like http://localhost/phpman/manual-lookup.php?pattern=str does not. A quick

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: Short syntax for Arrays (redux)

2011-06-02 Thread Sean Coates
pls do vote here: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/shortsyntaxforarrays/vote some devs still did not choose which syntax they want. If people vote on this now, will further discussion about how this SHOULD work be shut down with we already voted on this? S

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: Short syntax for Arrays (redux)

2011-06-02 Thread Pierre Joye
which other discussions do you wish? Json is clearly not an option and not enough people (but a couple) likes or wants it. The RFC is about short array syntax and as far as I can see there is already a clear consensus for one of the proposed new syntax. Cheers, On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 9:53 PM,

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: Short syntax for Arrays (redux)

2011-06-02 Thread Pierre Joye
so put +1 on both :D On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 9:37 PM, Brian Moon br...@moonspot.net wrote: On 6/2/11 11:08 AM, Pierre Joye wrote: reminder #2, pls do vote here: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/shortsyntaxforarrays/vote some devs still did not choose which syntax they want. I don't really care

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: Short syntax for Arrays (redux)

2011-06-02 Thread Brian Moon
On 6/2/11 11:08 AM, Pierre Joye wrote: reminder #2, pls do vote here: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/shortsyntaxforarrays/vote some devs still did not choose which syntax they want. I don't really care which syntax wins as long as one of them gets rolled in. Brian. -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: Short syntax for Arrays (redux)

2011-06-02 Thread Sanford Whiteman
There's no need to be rude. If you can't make your point without attacking people, then you need a better argument. If you can't make your point without misusing terms to the point of making yourself untrustworthy on that level alone, stop trying to argue. The lazy programmer axiom

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: Short syntax for Arrays (redux)

2011-06-02 Thread Stas Malyshev
Hi! https://wiki.php.net/rfc/shortsyntaxforarrays/vote some devs still did not choose which syntax they want. Just to be clear on my vote, I'd really like to have [], and I think we MUST keep = there, but I don't care either way about ':'. -- Stanislav Malyshev, Software Architect SugarCRM:

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: Short syntax for Arrays (redux)

2011-06-02 Thread Sean Coates
If people vote on this now, will further discussion about how this SHOULD work be shut down with we already voted on this? which other discussions do you wish? Json is clearly not an option and not enough people (but a couple) likes or wants it. The RFC is about short array syntax and as

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: Short syntax for Arrays (redux)

2011-06-02 Thread Andrei Zmievski
Stop spreading FUD, please. It's no different than writing json_decode(ä\u0123). Your statement, the stuff in bar in UTF-8 is wrong. The \u0123 escape sequence is a representation of a Unicode character, not the character itself. This representation can be encoded in any ASCII-compatible

[PHP-DEV] 5.4 moving forward

2011-06-02 Thread Stas Malyshev
Hi! We're having pretty lively discussion on the list, twitter and other places, but let's not forget the big goal of 5.4 :) 1. First of all, the official business. Any objections to the RMs for 5.4 being: Stas Malyshev (stas) David Soria Parra (dsp) If not, we'll be the 5.4 RM team. 2.

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: Short syntax for Arrays (redux)

2011-06-02 Thread Philip Olson
On Jun 2, 2011, at 1:19 PM, Sean Coates wrote: If people vote on this now, will further discussion about how this SHOULD work be shut down with we already voted on this? which other discussions do you wish? Json is clearly not an option and not enough people (but a couple) likes or wants it.

Re: [PHP-DEV] 5.4 moving forward

2011-06-02 Thread Pierre Joye
hi, I have no objection as long as the RFC for the release process is adopted before we do any 5.4 releases, as stated earlier, this is the only way to put ourself on the safe side. Cheers, On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 10:24 PM, Stas Malyshev smalys...@sugarcrm.com wrote: Hi! We're having pretty

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: Short syntax for Arrays (redux)

2011-06-02 Thread Pierre Joye
On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 10:19 PM, Sean Coates s...@seancoates.com wrote: If people vote on this now, will further discussion about how this SHOULD work be shut down with we already voted on this? which other discussions do you wish? Json is clearly not an option and not enough people (but a

Re: [PHP-DEV] 5.4 moving forward

2011-06-02 Thread Ilia Alshanetsky
Sounds fine to me. On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 10:24 PM, Stas Malyshev smalys...@sugarcrm.com wrote: Hi! We're having pretty lively discussion on the list, twitter and other places, but let's not forget the big goal of 5.4 :) 1. First of all, the official business. Any objections to the RMs for

Re: [PHP-DEV] 5.4 moving forward

2011-06-02 Thread Hannes Magnusson
On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 22:24, Stas Malyshev smalys...@sugarcrm.com wrote: I'd like to set up a vote for the undecided TODO features on wiki.php.net, anybody could help me with setting up the voting module there if there's such thing on the wiki? Or set me up with the access to wiki machine and

Re: [PHP-DEV] Local PHP docs with search facility

2011-06-02 Thread Hannes Magnusson
On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 21:03, Richard Riley rile...@googlemail.com wrote: Could some kind soul advise me on how to install php docs localy and have the excellent patterns search work based on an sqllite database? https://wiki.php.net/doc/phd/view Please ask any followup questions on the

Re: [PHP-DEV] Local PHP docs with search facility

2011-06-02 Thread Richard Riley
Hannes Magnusson hannes.magnus...@gmail.com writes: On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 21:03, Richard Riley rile...@googlemail.com wrote: Could some kind soul advise me on how to install php docs localy and have the excellent patterns search work based on an sqllite database?

Re: [PHP-DEV] Local PHP docs with search facility

2011-06-02 Thread Philip Olson
On Jun 2, 2011, at 2:46 PM, Richard Riley wrote: Hannes Magnusson hannes.magnus...@gmail.com writes: On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 21:03, Richard Riley rile...@googlemail.com wrote: Could some kind soul advise me on how to install php docs localy and have the excellent patterns search work

Re: [PHP-DEV] Local PHP docs with search facility

2011-06-02 Thread Nathan Nobbe
On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 4:01 PM, Philip Olson phi...@roshambo.org wrote: On Jun 2, 2011, at 2:46 PM, Richard Riley wrote: Hannes Magnusson hannes.magnus...@gmail.com writes: On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 21:03, Richard Riley rile...@googlemail.com wrote: Could some kind soul advise me on

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: Zend Signal Handling

2011-06-02 Thread Michael Maclean
On 02/06/11 18:20, Gustavo Lopes wrote: Em Thu, 02 Jun 2011 18:10:50 +0100, Ilia Alshanetsky i...@prohost.org escreveu: Killing TSRMLS_FETCH is a noble goal, but let's keep it to once patch at a time please ;-) And for the record I am all for killing TSRMLS_FETCH. Is there any advantage in

Re: [PHP-DEV] Local PHP docs with search facility

2011-06-02 Thread Richard Riley
Nathan Nobbe quickshif...@gmail.com writes: On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 4:01 PM, Philip Olson phi...@roshambo.org wrote: On Jun 2, 2011, at 2:46 PM, Richard Riley wrote: Hannes Magnusson hannes.magnus...@gmail.com writes: On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 21:03, Richard Riley rile...@googlemail.com

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: Short syntax for Arrays (redux)

2011-06-02 Thread dukeofgaming
State the case for JSON in a separate RFC and progress will be made, but I think there is a fundamental mistake here: serialization formats are the *means* for interoperability, not the ends. The only way I see JSONy syntax would help is if PHP code —with JSONy syntax— would be parsed by a JSON

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: Zend Signal Handling

2011-06-02 Thread Felipe Pena
Hi, 2011/6/2 Michael Maclean mich...@no-surprises.co.uk On 02/06/11 18:20, Gustavo Lopes wrote: Em Thu, 02 Jun 2011 18:10:50 +0100, Ilia Alshanetsky i...@prohost.org escreveu: Killing TSRMLS_FETCH is a noble goal, but let's keep it to once patch at a time please ;-) And for the record I

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: Zend Signal Handling

2011-06-02 Thread Felipe Pena
2011/6/2 Felipe Pena felipe...@gmail.com Hi, 2011/6/2 Michael Maclean mich...@no-surprises.co.uk On 02/06/11 18:20, Gustavo Lopes wrote: Em Thu, 02 Jun 2011 18:10:50 +0100, Ilia Alshanetsky i...@prohost.org escreveu: Killing TSRMLS_FETCH is a noble goal, but let's keep it to once patch

Re: [PHP-DEV] autoconf 2.60+ support

2011-06-02 Thread Christopher Jones
On 05/15/2011 02:45 AM, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: As you may have noticed, I have fixed the autoconf stuff to work with autoconf 2.60+ in PHP_5_4 and trunk. In the past I have tried to make it support both 2.60 and =2.60 at the same time and it never worked. autoconf 2.60 was released in June

[PHP-DEV] [RFC] Object oriented session handlers

2011-06-02 Thread Arpad Ray
Hi, A while ago I submitted a patch to allow session_set_save_handler() to accept a class, and support the inheritance of the default session handler's methods. The RFC has a more detailed description and the current patch: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/session-oo Changes since this was last

Re: [PHP-DEV] autoconf 2.60+ support

2011-06-02 Thread Rasmus Lerdorf
I'm on a plane headed for Rio, so I can't test your patch for a while. If you have checked it on a couple of different systems, commit it, and we will work out any issues during the early stages of getting 5.4 out the door. -Rasmus -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To

Re: [PHP-DEV] Local PHP docs with search facility

2011-06-02 Thread Richard Riley
Hannes Magnusson hannes.magnus...@gmail.com writes: On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 21:03, Richard Riley rile...@googlemail.com wrote: Could some kind soul advise me on how to install php docs localy and have the excellent patterns search work based on an sqllite database?

Re: [PHP-DEV] autoconf 2.60+ support

2011-06-02 Thread Christopher Jones
On 6/2/11 6:44 PM, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: I'm on a plane headed for Rio, so I can't test your patch for a while. If you have checked it on a couple of different systems, commit it, and we will work out any issues during the early stages of getting 5.4 out the door. -Rasmus I'll test it on