Am 29 Mar 2006 um 17:00 hat Edward Martin geschrieben:
Howard,
I agree with everything you said, totally. That is exactly my
practice with fret placement. slightly diminish the 2nd 4th
frets, for renaissance tuning.
..and adjust the open courses and the other frets accordingly, one
: Howard Posner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Lute Net lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 11:57 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Mean tone temperament
Stewart McCoy wrote:
I can think of quite a bit of baroque guitar
music which explores remote keys, and where equal temperament
would
It is an opinion of a matematician-harpsichordist friend of mine: that he
did, unequivocally.
RT
Werckmeister never accurately described equal temperament. Neidhart's
temperament was actually a whole set of temperaments, having in common
that
they were more consonant in the more frequently
From: Charles [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Newsgroups: rec.music.early
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 8:09 AM
Sybrand Bakker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message
Jean-Philippe Rameau was the first writer to
describe ET, in his Traite de l'harmonie, published in Paris in 1754,
so after Bach's death.
(I tried to crosspost this, but it didn't come through...)
I'd like to take the opportunity to once again point out Bradley Lehman's
Bach-tuning,
which can be studied at http://www.larips.com
According to his argumentation, equal could well have meant to be
_equal-sounding_
in several
Body frets ARE historical feature on baroque lutes.
RT
Seems to be accurate enough.
No temperament is accurate with lutes, once left hand starts fretting,
and
even more so higher up the neck, especially with such high action as,
say,
But that's the whole point of movable frets. You can
Am 24 Mar 2006 um 23:20 hat EUGENE BRAIG IV geschrieben:
To really and wholly tune a guitar or lute in
anything but equal temperament, you would need sectioned frets like
the experimental guitars of Lacote and Panormo in the mid 1800s.
Dear Eugene,
sectioned frets are even necessary to get
Jon Murphy wrote:
What are distant keys?
Keys that have few notes in common with the home key. A piece in C
major will typically modulate to G or F or minor, but gets far afield
Or not modulate at all, like Scheidt's Passamezzo Antico.
if it drifts into A-flat or F-sharp, and in any
On Sat, 25 Mar 2006, Roman Turovsky wrote:
You forgot the modifier EARLY. In the later baroque where the expression is
based on modulation the ET is essential.
Are you really sure that at least partly the late baroque expression by
modulation did not come from the different interval
On Sat, 25 Mar 2006, Roman Turovsky wrote:
(Monteverdi was attacked by Artusi for tuning in ET).
Quote please! And the proof that Artusi really was speaking of ET.
(Remember you are now talking of my composer hero! :-)
(BTW, when I played theorbo in the Poppea, I set also another tastino
to
It is a whole series of invective starting with , as I recall, L'Artusi,
overo delle imperfettioni della moderna musica (1600).
RT
(Monteverdi was attacked by Artusi for tuning in ET).
Quote please! And the proof that Artusi really was speaking of ET.
(Remember you are now talking of my
ps
Those ugly thirds are problematic only in major keys, anyway.
Conversely I find meantone 10ths ugly, especially in parallel passages
thereof.
RT
It is a whole series of invective starting with , as I recall, L'Artusi,
overo delle imperfettioni della moderna musica (1600).
RT
(Monteverdi
EUGENE BRAIG IV wrote:
However, keyboards can tune every single note. Pluckers of fretted
things can only tune a few intervals and the rest is dictated by their
frets.
Pluckers of fretted things have more flexibility than keyboard players,
not less, because it's a relatively simple matter
On Sat, 25 Mar 2006, Roman Turovsky wrote:
It is a whole series of invective starting with , as I recall, L'Artusi, overo
delle imperfettioni della moderna musica (1600).
RT
(Monteverdi was attacked by Artusi for tuning in ET).
Quote please! And the proof that Artusi really was
On Sat, 25 Mar 2006, Roman Turovsky wrote:
Those ugly thirds are problematic only in major keys, anyway.
Well, of course major thirds are the major problem of ET, but my
enjoyment of the wider than ET minor thirds is so evident that
also for that reason I prefer non-ET! :)
Arto
To get on
Arto, I am playing in ET exclusively, so I am not in the habit of reading
much on the subject, never mind keeping track of page numbers. We have
Howard Der Advokat for that.
Anyway, Frescobaldi PETITIONED Vatican for an ET organ. And that's Standard
Scholarship.
RT
It is a whole series of
On Sat, 25 Mar 2006, Roman Turovsky wrote:
Arto, I am playing in ET exclusively, so I am not in the habit of reading much
on the subject, never mind keeping track of page numbers. We have Howard Der
Advokat for that.
Sorry for you! ;-)
I was not interested in page numbers, I was interested
This puzzles me. 10ths are not very different from thirds. Meantone
thirds are quite nice once the ear forgets about those too wide ET
thirds. If 10ths were significantly different, we'd have very false
octaves. E.g.: 10th c-e' sounds ugly, 3rd c'-e' sounds nice. Then the
octave c-c' must
It puzzles me too, but it came in a acoustic experiment by a friend who
noticed that in extended passages of parralel 10ths (a lot more than in
3rds) on a ren. lute meantone overinflections become offputting. A similar
sutiation was reported by a different friend on a temperamentally
On Sat, 25 Mar 2006, Roman Turovsky wrote:
Anyway, Frescobaldi PETITIONED Vatican for an ET organ. And that's Standard
Scholarship.
And then, if we forget for a while your claims about Monteverdi using ET,
could you repeat the words Frescobaldi used when he petitioned something
for the
: [LUTE] Re: Mean tone temperament
On Sat, 25 Mar 2006, Roman Turovsky wrote:
Anyway, Frescobaldi PETITIONED Vatican for an ET organ. And that's
Standard
Scholarship.
And then, if we forget for a while your claims about Monteverdi using ET,
could you repeat the words Frescobaldi used when he
Anyway, Frescobaldi PETITIONED Vatican for an ET organ. And that's
Standard
Scholarship.
And then, if we forget for a while your claims about Monteverdi using ET,
could you repeat the words Frescobaldi used when he petitioned something
for the Vatican organ? And it would really be
On Sat, 25 Mar 2006, Roman Turovsky wrote:
I suspect my Artusi and Frescobaldi quotes disappeared in the crash of Mac
last August, but it seems the Werckmeisrter quote survived:
.
The irony of mentioning Werckmeister's temperaments of 1691, is that in his
'Paradoxal-Discourse published
On Sat, 25 Mar 2006, Roman Turovsky wrote:
But the partisan adherence to meantone is equally unscolarly.
Between strict meantone and modern ET there are many many alternatives!
Arto
To get on or off this list see list information at
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On Sat, 25 Mar 2006, Roman Turovsky wrote:
Indeed, but there isn't enough time.
Don't worry pal, there is plenty of time! The scholars (in this case
the scientists) claim there was a start to the time (the so called Big
Bang, which btw I do not believe), but there is no end to the time, it
Stewart McCoy wrote:
I can think of quite a bit of baroque guitar
music which explores remote keys, and where equal temperament would
have to be the order of the day.
But it would not *have* to be anything of the sort, unless you assume
that a composer writing in F-sharp major expected it to
- Original Message -
From: Howard Posner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Friday, March 24, 2006 6:57 pm
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Mean tone temperament
Stewart McCoy wrote:
I can think of quite a bit of baroque guitar
music which explores remote keys, and where equal temperament would
have
Thanks for this insightful and pracitcal take. I enjoyed the read.
Eugene
- Original Message -
From: Stewart McCoy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Friday, March 24, 2006 5:51 pm
Subject: [LUTE] Mean tone temperament
Dear Monica,
There is plenty of evidence that players of fretted
EUGENE BRAIG IV wrote:
However, keyboards can tune every single note. Pluckers of fretted
things can only tune a few intervals and the rest is dictated by their
frets.
Pluckers of fretted things have more flexibility than keyboard players,
not less, because it's a relatively simple matter
I am reminded of the days when I was a salesman of government bonds - as the
pricing decision approached the various salesmen would announce out loud the
interest from customers, many of whom were State funds. One called off State
of Minnesota, State of Iowa, State of Confusion, State of Michigan.
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