Re: Real men don't attack straw men

On 12/15/07, Jon . <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The systems should inform users (or just flag to sys admins yo this is a > blob) with something along the lines of: > > "You and your system are now at the complete mercy of this vendor's > competence and self-interested wishes, expect to be degraded

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

On 12/15/07, David H. Lynch Jr. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > After reveiwing the OpenBSD Goals and Polices, it appears to me that > the intent is that OpenBSD should be a free/Open Source system. But > unless I am missing something that is not actually made clear. The "Copyright law is complex

Re: Bottleneck in httpd. I need help to address capacity issues on max parallel and rate connections

Mark Bucciarelli wrote: On 12/15/07, Philip Guenther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Dec 14, 2007 3:06 PM, Mark Bucciarelli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On 2007-05-10 8:40:36 Claudio Jeker wrote: With many shortliving connections you have a lot of sockets in TIME_WAIT. Because you are testing fro

Re: Play Nice - Real men don't attack straw men (Theo)

Bengt Frost wrote: > On Sat, Dec 15, 2007 at 12:31:25PM -0700, Darrin Chandler wrote: > > Finally as long as i do not hurt 'someone' (to mutch) then it must > be up to me to choose what i want to do, f.ex. install packages through > portssystem. > If I wrote a a BSD Licensed program to m

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

On Sat, Dec 15, 2007 at 04:36:18PM -0500, Richard Stallman wrote: > Again, Richard made foul and faulty comments about OpenBSD first. > > Neither one. > > What I said was that I don't recommend OpenBSD because the ports > system suggests non-free programs. You said that OpenBSD "... includ

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

On Saturday 15 December 2007 23:42:06 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > On Sat, 15 Dec 2007, Richard Stallman wrote: > > For personal reasons, I do not browse the web from my computer. (I > > also have not net connection much of the time.) To look at page I > > send mail to a demon which runs wget and m

Re: i386: fxp & re: both not 1000baseT by default

On Dec 15, 2007 8:22 PM, vladas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi, > > Should not both - fxp0 and re0 - autoselect 1000baseT by > default by the dhclient? Both are connected to the same 1000M switch, > no other tweaks in GENERIC's setup: > re0: flags=8843 mtu 1500 > lladdr 00:16:01:3d:7f:a6 >

Re: rhetorical strategies

As we weather the Category 5 'Flame-icane Strawman', I would like to call attention to Gregg Reynolds' original post on this thread, which I feel offers fresh thinking about how to talk about licensing, and strategies for surviving the buffeting of the next great Rhetorical Depression. Well worth

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

On Dec 15, 2007, at 8:21 PM, David H. Lynch Jr. wrote: After reveiwing the OpenBSD Goals and Polices, it appears to me that the intent is that OpenBSD should be a free/Open Source system. But unless I am missing something that is not actually made clear. The polices page lists software lic

Re: Bottleneck in httpd. I need help to address capacity issues on max parallel and rate connections

On 12/15/07, Philip Guenther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Dec 14, 2007 3:06 PM, Mark Bucciarelli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On 2007-05-10 8:40:36 Claudio Jeker wrote: > > > > > With many shortliving connections you have a lot of sockets in TIME_WAIT. > > > Because you are testing from one ho

Re: Play Nice - Real men don't attack straw men (Theo)

L wrote: > > For about 5 years now I've been looking for an operating system that > doesn't have the whole freedom of speech attached to it, since I don't > fall for that. This recent flamewar simply helped confirm my instinct > that openbsd is not about some idealistic freedom of speech. Ope

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

I beleive the URL http://www.gnu.org/links/links.html#FreeGNULinuxDistributions%20. has been referenced in other messages declaiming Richard's recommendation of this or that Distro. This link was also near the top of the bsdtalk page about the RMS interview. The explanation - near the top, of why

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

Can someone just kill this thread PLEASEonly a few posts were actually good, the rest is filling my inbox Jason Dixon wrote: On Dec 15, 2007, at 6:00 PM, Gilles Chehade wrote: On Sat, Dec 15, 2007 at 04:36:51PM -0500, Richard Stallman wrote: I know of at least four companies I'v

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

On Sun, 16 Dec 2007, Marc Balmer wrote: Richard Stallman wrote: For personal reasons, I do not browse the web from my computer. (I also have not net connection much of the time.) To look at page I send mail to a demon which runs wget and mails the page back to me. It is very efficient use of

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

On Sat, 15 Dec 2007, Richard Stallman wrote: For personal reasons, I do not browse the web from my computer. (I also have not net connection much of the time.) To look at page I send mail to a demon which runs wget and mails the page back to me. It is very efficient use of my time, but it is s

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

On Dec 15, 2007, at 5:28 PM, Marc Balmer wrote: Richard Stallman wrote: For personal reasons, I do not browse the web from my computer. (I also have not net connection much of the time.) To look at page I send mail to a demon which runs wget and mails the page back to me. It is very efficien

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

After reveiwing the OpenBSD Goals and Polices, it appears to me that the intent is that OpenBSD should be a free/Open Source system. But unless I am missing something that is not actually made clear. The polices page lists software licenses that are acceptable, and a few that are not, but I cou

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

Theo de Raadt wrote: >> What I said was that I don't recommend OpenBSD because the ports >> system suggests non-free programs. >> > > On the bsd talk show you did not withhold your recommendation because > the ports system suggests non-free programs. No way, that's not what > you said on that

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

How,... boring... On Sat, Dec 15, 2007 at 06:39:15PM -0800, Matthew Dempsky wrote: > On 12/15/07, Jeroen Massar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Should I take this that you don't endorse Debian, and thus also Ubuntu > > and other deriviatives, either, as you are now stating that these > > contain 'r

/bsd.mp crash

Hi Recently I compile the 4.2-CURRENT Kernel. The /bsd kernel work fine, but the /bsd.mp kernel crash. A picture of the crash can be found in http://www.compumundohypermegared.org/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/14122007133.jpg I have an Intel CoreQuad 6600 2.4Ghz Processor and my motherboard is In

i386: fxp & re: both not 1000baseT by default

Hi, Should not both - fxp0 and re0 - autoselect 1000baseT by default by the dhclient? Both are connected to the same 1000M switch, no other tweaks in GENERIC's setup: # cat /etc/hostname* dhcp NONE NONE NONE dhcp NONE NONE NONE lo0: flags=8049 mtu 33208 groups: lo inet6 ::1 prefi

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

On Fri, Dec 14, 2007 at 03:49:07PM -0500, Richard Stallman wrote: > Thus, the risk of leading people to use a non-free system by making a > free program run on it is small. However, it is our practice when > doing this to remind people that the non-free system is unethical and > bad for your free

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

Then you can talk to me. Every single piece of firmware that goes though my hands these days was written in gcc on windows. Or on gcc on cygwin. Arches I used in the past were gcc on solaris and gcc on Linux (everything prior to that was proprietary). The only reason gcc is being run on windows

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

The software is still gratis; one paid for the media. On Sat, Dec 15, 2007 at 08:10:02PM -0500, bofh wrote: > On Dec 15, 2007 7:03 PM, Travers Buda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > And while I can't think of any instances where money exchanged hands > > per the GPL off the top of my head, gratis cou

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

On Sat, Dec 15, 2007 at 11:55:10PM +0100, Jeroen Massar wrote: > Richard Stallman wrote: > > RMS' statement that OpenBSD endorses non-free software goes too far, > > > > What I said is that the ports system contains recipes for installing > > non-free software. > > Just a quick question then:

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

On Thu, Dec 13, 2007 at 04:16:47PM -0700, Jack J. Woehr wrote: > Sounds like the first three lines for Ty's next song! Perhaps this "thread of the year" will be source of inspiration for Ty and his wonderful next stickers to come. -- unzip ; strip ; touch ; grep ; find ; finger ; mount ; fsck ;

bsd.mp crash

Hi I download and compile the 4.2-Current Kernel. The bsd kernel file work fine but the bsd.mp crash :-( An screenshot of the crash can be found in: http://www.compumundohypermegared.org/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/14122007133.jpg I'm using an Intel CoreQuad 6600 2.4Ghz Processor And my motherbo

inetd stupid config question for -R in rc.conf.local

Hi, All the various daemon that use options flag in rc.conf, all have daemon_flags=NO # for normal use: "" when you put the options for your daemon. I am looking to add -R to inetd, but there isn't any inetd_flags, just the: inetd=YES # almost always needed So, just in case, ev

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

On 14/12/2007, Richard Stallman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > There is a big practical difference between making a free system > suggest a non-free package, and making a free package run on a > non-free system. We treat the two issues differently because they are > different. The only practical di

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

On Sat, Dec 15, 2007 at 04:36:51PM -0500, Richard Stallman wrote: > There is a difference between "I have no obligation to answer each and > every message" and "I cannot find a coherent answer to several messages". > > One difference is that the first one is true, and the second one is > f

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

On Dec 15, 2007, at 6:00 PM, Gilles Chehade wrote: On Sat, Dec 15, 2007 at 04:36:51PM -0500, Richard Stallman wrote: I know of at least four companies I've worked with/for that *rely* on gcc and that would switch to Linux/BSD if gcc was not available on Windows. I am surprised by t

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

On 15/12/2007, Richard Stallman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Convincing people to switch to free software is just one part of what > we need to do to establish a society in which users are free. We also > have to teach them to appreciate their freedom, and recognize that > non-free would deny them

Re: Play Nice - Real men don't attack straw men (Theo)

On Sat, 15 Dec 2007 13:08:16 -0700, "L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > Jack J. Woehr wrote: > >>> Well, no, you may. The problem is when two people sling poop on each > >>> other, > >>> sooner or later it ends, and then all you've got is two guys standing > >>> there looking > >>> sheepish, all cove

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

On 12/15/07, Jeroen Massar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Should I take this that you don't endorse Debian, and thus also Ubuntu > and other deriviatives, either, as you are now stating that these > contain 'recipes for non-free software'? Correct. RMS does not recommend Debian or Ubuntu.

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

On Sat, Dec 15, 2007 at 05:16:54PM -0600, Duncan Patton a Campbell wrote: > On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 14:05:16 -0800 > Ryan Corder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I understand and appreciate the "freedom" that is defined by both the > > BSD and GPL licenses; that of ensuring the authors continual right

Theo vs. Richard - avoiding the facts!

Who am I Theo asked, a big fat nobody (maybe), but I started this issue to begin with and after criticizing Theo for being unnecessary rude to Richard I have noticed that Richard keeps avoiding the facts! Richard you continue to avoid the questions or issues brought forth by Theo, could you please

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

bofh wrote: I respectfully disagree. Linux was definitely the enabler for this to happen. How much of Linux's success was because of the GPL is something only historians can tell us, but without FSF/GNU/GPL. Unfortunately, right at that time, bsd was involved in the AT&T lawsuit, or it could ha

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

On Sunday 16 December 2007 02:28:12 Marc Balmer wrote: > Richard Stallman wrote: > > For personal reasons, I do not browse the web from my computer. (I > > also have not net connection much of the time.) To look at page I > > send mail to a demon which runs wget and mails the page back to me. > >

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

Some day in the future, RMS will die while having sexual intercourse with an android running proprietary software... and on that day, I will buy everyone a round of beers. Sure I'm terrible, but he's just crazy... ;) (I may be drunk, but you are ugly, and tomorrow I'll be sober.) -Nix Fa

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

On Sat, Dec 15, 2007 at 04:36:57PM -0500, Richard Stallman wrote: > Not at all. The point is to avoid things to lead users to install > non-free software, and/or grant ethical legitimacy to non-free > software. gNewSense doesn't lead users to install blobs, and doesn't > kegitimize them. then y

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

El sC!b, 15-12-2007 a las 16:36 -0500, Richard Stallman escribiC3: > Remember all the people who accused me of "lying" because at some time > I described the presence of these recipes as "the ports system > includes non-free software"? That whole tangent was based on taking > my words out of cont

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

On Dec 15, 2007 7:09 PM, Darrin Chandler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The single benefit of distributing "free" Windows software that comes to > mind is to introduce a user to the idea that free software can be a > viable alternative. I can't think of another reason at all. And the $200 > Walmart L

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

On Sat, Dec 15, 2007 at 04:36:51PM -0500, Richard Stallman wrote: > I know of at least four companies I've worked with/for that *rely* on > gcc and that would switch to Linux/BSD if gcc was not available on > Windows. > > I am surprised by this statement, because in general I don't expect

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

El sC!b, 15-12-2007 a las 16:36 -0500, Richard Stallman escribiC3: > I suppose so. I don't see how anything could stop them. Whatever the > changes gNewSense has made in the source code of Linux, a user could > revert them if he wants to. Change te code to the point that it doesn't accept taint

Re: Play Nice - Real men don't attack straw men (Theo)

On Dec 15, 2007 3:08 PM, L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Jack J. Woehr wrote: > >>> Well, no, you may. The problem is when two people sling poop on each > >>> other, > >>> sooner or later it ends, and then all you've got is two guys standing > >>> there looking > >>> sheepish, all covered with poop.

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

Richard Stallman wrote: Come oh dilbert of gnu, stamp your licence upon all who code. Propegate your gnu legacy through the universe down to the plank scale. Install your agenda near and far. Come and spread the evangalistic word. All I can do personally is bless your computer. Bu

Re: Real men don't attack sign men

Richard Stallman wrote: I doubt someone who is truly unfriendly could organize a hackathon, a friendly social event. He may be perfectly friendly to others. What is relevant is that he tends to be unfriendly to me. What is relevant is that you are a hypocrite and come to our mailing

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

On Dec 15, 2007 7:03 PM, Travers Buda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > And while I can't think of any instances where money exchanged hands > per the GPL off the top of my head, gratis could be misleading. As I understand it, plenty of people have actually paid for tapes that FSF/GNU was selling.

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

While we're all on this subject (or were, I left for a couple hours), hand in hand the philosophy that systems should crash loudly, apt, ports, whatever (if ports doesn't already) should loudly yell at the user (the same level of fear pushed with "this is cvs code this may break your system so don'

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

Richard Stallman wrote: There is a difference between "I have no obligation to answer each and every message" and "I cannot find a coherent answer to several messages". One difference is that the first one is true, and the second one is false. As you've seen by now, people were looking

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

On Sat, Dec 15, 2007 at 08:07:19PM -0500, bofh wrote: > On Dec 15, 2007 7:09 PM, Darrin Chandler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > The single benefit of distributing "free" Windows software that comes to > > mind is to introduce a user to the idea that free software can be a > > viable alternative. I

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

Richard Stallman wrote: > RMS' statement that OpenBSD endorses non-free software goes too far, > > What I said is that the ports system contains recipes for installing > non-free software. Just a quick question then: what about Debian GNU/Linux? (note the GNU part there) $ apt-cache show mstt

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

On Dec 15, 2007 11:46 PM, Firas Kraiem <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > So what ? Are you telling me that, just because there is one thing about > which Richard disagrees with OpenBSD, he shouldn't have the right to > also tell the good he thinks about it ? Or the other way around, > because OpenBSD

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

Richard Stallman wrote: For personal reasons, I do not browse the web from my computer. (I also have not net connection much of the time.) To look at page I send mail to a demon which runs wget and mails the page back to me. It is very efficient use of my time, but it is slow in real time. a

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

On Saturday 15 December 2007 23:27:25 Mattieu Baptiste wrote: > On Dec 15, 2007 11:11 PM, Firas Kraiem <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Not to mention the countless times Richard acknowledged all the > > positive contributions of OpenBSD as a whole to the Free Software > > movement, including in thi

Supermicro H8SSL-i2, fsck, and OpenBSD 4.2 upgrade

Good afternoon. I have a Supermicro 1011S-MR2B server with one of their H8SSL-i2 motherboards, and an Opteron 1210 CPU and 40 GB Western Digital SATA drive. The system runs perfectly fine and has no problems fscking all partitions on the release version of 4.1 with all the errata relevant to

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

On Saturday 15 December 2007 23:50:38 Mattieu Baptiste wrote: > On Dec 15, 2007 11:46 PM, Firas Kraiem <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > So what ? Are you telling me that, just because there is one thing > > about which Richard disagrees with OpenBSD, he shouldn't have the > > right to also tell the

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 14:05:16 -0800 Ryan Corder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I understand and appreciate the "freedom" that is defined by both the > BSD and GPL licenses; that of ensuring the authors continual right of > ownership. However, in terms of true freedom, both have limitations in > plac

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

> I realize that you are frustrated with the terms and their definitions. > However, if someone is well-versed in the GPL philosophy and rhetoric, > it is understood what is meant when I say free and when I say open. > I don't see any other good way to discuss it. Certainly in the BSD > camp we do

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

Please can we stop this thread? hasn't this gone on long enough already? :( -- Kimi

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

> > The Adobe flash plug-in is non-free software, and people should not > > install it, or suggest installing it, or even tell people it exists. > > so much for free speech. > > Free speech means you are free to tell people about the Adobe flash > plug-in, and also free to decide not

Re: swap encryption Re: Putting partition in RAM

On Fri, Dec 14, 2007 at 01:02:42PM +0100, knitti wrote: > swap encryption on OpenBSD is done different than what you > advise. just use a sysctl for vm.swapencrypt.enable. Much less > maintenance headaches. > > an yes, don't complain about being reminded that this is not a > netbsd / linux suppor

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

On Sat, Dec 15, 2007 at 04:37:45PM -0500, Richard Stallman wrote: > This incredibly misguided. People won't switch to free software > because of hectoring and hamfisted attempts to frustrate their > choices, > > Convincing people to switch to free software is just one part of what > we

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

On Dec 15, 2007, at 4:37 PM, Richard Stallman wrote: This incredibly misguided. People won't switch to free software because of hectoring and hamfisted attempts to frustrate their choices, Convincing people to switch to free software is just one part of what we need to do to establish

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

On Sat, Dec 15, 2007 at 04:36:29PM -0500, Richard Stallman wrote: > Please note that I'm not saying gcc or emacs should not support > windows, solaris, ultrix or any other non-free operating system. I do > not hold these extreme ethical views. I merely question RMS's ethics. > > Is the

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

> I exercise my freedom of speech by not telling people about the Adobe > flash plug-in. I think you should, too. But I will not try to force > you to do that, because I respect your freedom of speech. That's rich coming from someone who advocates limit of speech via a restrictive license. Sham

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

* Marco Peereboom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007-12-15 17:18:52]: > > So lets repeat it, GPL software is GRATIS. > The term gratis seems like a good one. However, the GPL states that: "You may charge a fee for the physical act of transferring a copy, and you may at your option offer warranty protec

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

There is a difference between "I have no obligation to answer each and every message" and "I cannot find a coherent answer to several messages". One difference is that the first one is true, and the second one is false. As you've seen by now, people were looking for something sinister in

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

He claims OpenBSD suggest the use of non-free software. After having used it for quite some time, such a suggestion was never made to me. I will not argue with your statement about your personal experience. The point is that OpenBSD distributes the ports system, and the ports system contai

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

| > As has been said before, the ports tree is just a | > scaffold, used to force third party programs (be they free or non-free | > and for whatever value of freedom you wish) to install into a sane and | > known location within the filesystem, easing the task of installing |

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

Again, Richard made foul and faulty comments about OpenBSD first. Neither one. What I said was that I don't recommend OpenBSD because the ports system suggests non-free programs. That's neither faulty nor foul. It is factually accurate: the ports system does contain recipes to install non-f

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

Please note that I'm not saying gcc or emacs should not support windows, solaris, ultrix or any other non-free operating system. I do not hold these extreme ethical views. I merely question RMS's ethics. Is there anyone here that actually believes it is wrong for free programs to have

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

You meant contaminate not bless right ? :) Here is the rest of the quote that you failed to include (obviously sarcastic and hinting that you not come blather in this forum) " I summon you ohh old and defunct goat. Come shed your hairs upon our path. Come and grace us with your holey eminence fo

Re: Play Nice - Real men don't attack straw men (Theo)

On Sat, Dec 15, 2007 at 12:31:25PM -0700, Darrin Chandler wrote: > On Sat, Dec 15, 2007 at 11:32:19AM -0700, Jack J. Woehr wrote: > > I do, too. I like them both. I want them to stop fighting in public. I don't > > care which one started it. I suppose it was Richard. It doesn't matter. Our > > repu

Re: Bottleneck in httpd. I need help to address capacity issues on max parallel and rate connections

On Dec 14, 2007 3:06 PM, Mark Bucciarelli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 2007-05-10 8:40:36 Claudio Jeker wrote: > > > With many shortliving connections you have a lot of sockets in TIME_WAIT. > > Because you are testing from one host only you start to hit these entries > > more and more often thi

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

On Dec 15, 2007 3:37 PM, Mattieu Baptiste <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Dec 14, 2007 9:49 PM, Richard Stallman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Could you tell me the name of that facility, or something else about > > it? If it is specifically and only useful for blobs, perhaps it > > should be rem

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

On Dec 15, 2007 11:11 PM, Firas Kraiem <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Saturday 15 December 2007 21:37:37 Mattieu Baptiste wrote: > > This is to me simply pathetic that you don't admit all the merits, > > qualities and efforts regarding freedom that OpenBSD developpers > > made. > > http://www.fsf

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

On Sat, Dec 15, 2007 at 01:52:26PM -0600, Travers Buda wrote: > However, if someone is well-versed in the GPL philosophy and rhetoric, > it is understood what is meant when I say free and when I say open. but Richard is not talking to people who are well versed in GPL philosophy. he is talking t

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

This incredibly misguided. People won't switch to free software because of hectoring and hamfisted attempts to frustrate their choices, Convincing people to switch to free software is just one part of what we need to do to establish a society in which users are free. We also have to t

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

On Dec 15, 2007 11:17 PM, bofh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > You do realize he has been criticizing most linux distros for years, > right? For exactly the same thing. > > Yes, "most". Why not gNewSense ? -- Mattieu Baptiste "/earth

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

> Torvalds' version of Linux is not free software, for this reason. > Ututo and gNewSense include a version of Linux which remove the > firmware blobs, in order to make it free software. > > that's awesome, can users add these back in if they choose? I suppose so. I don't

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

> What I said was that I don't recommend OpenBSD because the ports > system suggests non-free programs. On the bsd talk show you did not withhold your recommendation because the ports system suggests non-free programs. No way, that's not what you said on that show. What actually happened is that

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

On Saturday 15 December 2007 21:37:37 Mattieu Baptiste wrote: > This is to me simply pathetic that you don't admit all the merits, > qualities and efforts regarding freedom that OpenBSD developpers > made. http://www.fsf.org/news/fsaward2004.html Not to mention the countless times Richard acknowl

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

Come oh dilbert of gnu, stamp your licence upon all who code. Propegate your gnu legacy through the universe down to the plank scale. Install your agenda near and far. Come and spread the evangalistic word. All I can do personally is bless your computer. But if it has non-free softwa

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

> How does using non-free software, by your definition anything none > GPL'ed I gather, bring actual physical harm to anyone anywhere? > > Physical harm is not the only kind of harm. > Losing your freedom is harm too. Social practices that lead > people into a life without freedom are har

Re: Real men don't attack sign men

I doubt someone who is truly unfriendly could organize a hackathon, a friendly social event. He may be perfectly friendly to others. What is relevant is that he tends to be unfriendly to me. The same argument could be made about your unfriendliness. We could not talk to you sin

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

> The Adobe flash plug-in is non-free software, and people should not > install it, or suggest installing it, or even tell people it exists. so much for free speech. Free speech means you are free to tell people about the Adobe flash plug-in, and also free to decide not to tell them.

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

For personal reasons, I do not browse the web from my computer. (I also have not net connection much of the time.) To look at page I send mail to a demon which runs wget and mails the page back to me. It is very efficient use of my time, but it is slow in real time.

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

RMS' statement that OpenBSD endorses non-free software goes too far, What I said is that the ports system contains recipes for installing non-free software. In another message in this batch I address the question of what words to use to refer to that relationship. For me, the issue is that t

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

Richard, you can try to weasel your way all you can, saying you're `not aware' of such and such. In the end, if you want to be true to your goals, you should say you do not recommend ANYTHING. Heck, you should say to people that they should not use computers at all, for obvious reas

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

How does using non-free software, by your definition anything none GPL'ed I gather, bring actual physical harm to anyone anywhere? Physical harm is not the only kind of harm. Losing your freedom is harm too. Social practices that lead people into a life without freedom are harmful.

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

OpenBSD "refuses to accept it's users being forced into depending on vendor binaries" and pushes people to "send a message that open support for hardware matters". I appreciate those actions. They help our community.

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

Marco Peereboom wrote: RMS definitions of free/liberty/freedom etc are contorted to fit his believe system. They are not legal definitions and worse not even correct English. Got to love that the non-native speaker has to point that out. Marco, With all due respect, you made a huge mistake a

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

On Dec 14, 2007 9:49 PM, Richard Stallman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Could you tell me the name of that facility, or something else about > it? If it is specifically and only useful for blobs, perhaps it > should be remove from gNewSense. On the other hand, if it is a > general purpose featu

rhetorical strategies

It all boils down to language and rhetorical strategy. rms claims that OBSD "encourages" the use of "non-free" software. The OBSD folks consider that incorrect and slanderous. Instead of "tis so - tis not" argumentation, I propose a search, not for agreement, but for clear, simple, and pragmatic

Re: acx(4) fails to assossiate on OpenBSD 4.2

On 2007/12/15 20:33, Dmitrij Czarkoff wrote: > I've got a D-Link DWL-G520+ wireless acx111-based PCI card. It is > listed as supported device on acx(4) man page. When I boot up my i386 > box, I get it picked up by acx driver, but when I try to run dhclient > on acx0, I get no DHCPOFFERs, but only "

Re: UUCP to mars

I guess the drivers for that will be implimented in like OpenBSD V 16.5 or so. QID (quantum interface device) or QEID (quantum entaglement interface device) The only problem is that at that point the system might gain conciousness and start making decisions .. Maybee by then I'll know what the

Re: Play Nice - Real men don't attack straw men (Theo)

Jack J. Woehr wrote: Well, no, you may. The problem is when two people sling poop on each other, sooner or later it ends, and then all you've got is two guys standing there looking sheepish, all covered with poop. How is this my fault? It's not your fault. You're still standing there

Re: UUCP to mars

On Dec 15, 2007 8:56 PM, Travers Buda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > * Douglas A. Tutty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007-12-15 09:04:07]: > > > > On Sat, Dec 15, 2007 at 03:55:59AM -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > Email and web via UUCP ? I see it making a big comeback when humans > > > finally col

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

On Dec 15, 2007 2:37 PM, Eric Furman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > You are wrong. This thread *is* about personal freedom. > It started with RMS's attack on OBSD's ports system Why is it an attack? He has said the same thing of all the major linux distros for the longest time. That is the thing t

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