Bill you obviously feel strongly about this. Can you learn better with a
50mm? Maybe. I don't see why? Maybe the argument is that you can learn to see
better with a prime lens rather than a zoom. I'm not sure about that either.
I know the old school of thought certainly pushes this concept.
This thread made me recall a couple of things I heard over the years.
One was the book by cancer survivor and Tour de France winner, Lance
Armstrong, It's Not About The Bike. The other was from a cattleman's
field day many years ago in Greeley, Colorado. The subject was
quality in beef
, 2002 3:07 PM
Subject: Re: Do zooms teach visual discipline? Was: Advice Needed For
Student
In 003001c1fa36$8a17ad30$1502a8c0@rappr, on 05/13/02
at 02:26 PM, Bob Rapp [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
|Your legs are painted on and don't want to walk closer.
I really have an hard time understanding
For me, I find that zooms tend to help me to take good snapshots.
Primes tend to make me think more about what I am trying to do. Along
the same lines as an earlier discussion about how Medium Format forces
one to think a bit more about the shot due to 10 frames per roll.
Primes tend to make me
On Monday 13 May 2002 09:24, Lukasz Kacperczyk wrote:
IMO zooms are only useful when there's
no time to change lenses, or move around, and while shooting
transparencies.
Lukasz
Please explain. How are zooms more useful for shooting transparencies? What
has film type got to do with lenses
- Original Message -
From: tom
Subject: RE: Do zooms teach visual discipline? Was: Advice
Needed For Student
When I sold the MZ-30 and bought a MX with a
50mm, I got back
to the times of the Roleiflex, when one had to actually
move to change
perspective, which resulted
- Original Message -
From: Christian Skofteland
Subject: Re: Do zooms teach visual discipline? Was: Advice
Needed For Student
This whole argument about discipline and creative processes
based on lens
type used is crap..
Whatever.
William Robb
-
This message is from the Pentax
: Monday, May 13, 2002 3:44 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Do zooms teach visual discipline? Was: Advice Needed For
Student
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Lukasz Kacperczyk
When I sold the MZ-30 and bought a MX with a
50mm, I got
I make prints all the time of my photos. When I print my
transparencies I crop them to fit frame formats or to further enhance the
composition just as I do with print film (I don't always crop them though).
I don't use transparency film to do slide shows. I use it because I prefer
its
I cannot believe I am writing another prime vs zoom...
Still, I am just back from vacation and have my 2c ready. I think one
important aspect of primes is underrated: convenience. For this week I
had in my bag a 24, a 50 and a 135 lenses. The final result was that I
took a half dozen pics with
PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Do zooms teach visual discipline? Was: Advice Needed For
Student
On Monday 13 May 2002 09:24, Lukasz Kacperczyk wrote:
IMO zooms are only useful when there's
no time to change lenses, or move around, and while shooting
transparencies.
Lukasz
Please
In a message dated 5/13/2002 10:03:27 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
In the end, I think zooms are great for people who are trying to figure
out whether photography is worth doing at all. But once you are after
that stage, it's just another annoyance -- extra weight
-Alkuperäinen viesti-
Lähettäjä: Christian Skofteland [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Vastaanottaja: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Päivä: 13. toukokuuta 2002 16:07
Aihe: Re: Do zooms teach visual discipline? Was: Advice Needed For Student
On Monday 13 May 2002 09:24, Lukasz Kacperczyk wrote:
IMO
I agree for slide shows but not the printed page. After all that's just a
scan that is then cropped to fit the page just as a negative would be.
Christian
On Monday 13 May 2002 12:28, you wrote:
Framing - it is not as easy to crop a slide as a print - can be done, of
course. If you only
Everyone is different. There is no right and wrong. The quality of a fixed
focal length lens is, in 95 per cent of the times, better than the quality of
a zoom. Does it matter? Not if you are making prints 8X10 or less or if you
are printing out on a inkjet or using a cheap photo lab.
Ed,
I should have made clear that I was talking about recreational
photography only. Of course, if you are shooting for money, if you have
to take *this* shot, you have to take it, period.
OTOH, if your goal is to take *a* good picture, pretty much any object
can be shot from a dozen different
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of William Robb
- Original Message -
From: tom
Subject: RE: Do zooms teach visual discipline? Was: Advice
Needed For Student
Hmm. A zoom lens made *you* lazy, therefore zooms make people
- Original Message -
From: tom
Subject: RE: Do zooms teach visual discipline? Was: Advice
Needed For Student
I never said I knew anything, much less everything. I just
have issues
with anyone in any field saying there's one true way to learn.
Not
only are there several ways to learn
Some thoughts on zooms... I think zooms are great tools for teaching
cropping, but not that great for teaching someone how to see in terms of
a particular focal length.
If you stand in one place and take a series of photos with a zoom lens set
to, say, 28mm, 35mm, 50mm, 85mm and 105mm, you're
- Original Message -
From: Jonathan Donald
Subject: Re: Do zooms teach visual discipline? Was: Advice
Needed For Student
The whole friggin point isn't about whether the zoom is a better
compositional tool or not. It's not about composition at all.
It's about learning how to see what
Bill Owens wrote:
How come no one has suggested a 70-210 zoom? They can often
be had for
$100.00 or less, even a Vivitar Series 1.
William Robb wrote:
Zooms don't teach visual discipline.
I disagree. I think they do exactly that.
(You've got to learn in which direction to turn the
Sorry for the newbie question, but what is visual discipline?
I don't really understand the need to learn photography w/ one
fixed-focus
lens, like a 50mm. Is this so that you can better learn composition?
Wouldn't the selection of focal length be part of the composition
process?
I'm not
Lasse Karlsson wrote:
Bill Owens wrote:
How come no one has suggested a 70-210 zoom? They can often
be had for
$100.00 or less, even a Vivitar Series 1.
William Robb wrote:
Zooms don't teach visual discipline.
I disagree. I think they do exactly that.
(You've got to learn in which
Bill Owens wrote:
How come no one has suggested a 70-210 zoom? They can often
be had for
$100.00 or less, even a Vivitar Series 1.
William Robb wrote:
Zooms don't teach visual discipline.
I disagree. I think they do exactly that.
(You've got to learn in which direction to turn
I wrote:
Bill Owens wrote:
How come no one has suggested a 70-210 zoom? They can often
be had for
$100.00 or less, even a Vivitar Series 1.
William Robb wrote:
Zooms don't teach visual discipline.
I disagree. I think they do exactly that.
(You've got to learn in which direction
- Original Message -
From: TM [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2002 10:29 AM
Subject: RE: Do zooms teach visual discipline? Was: Advice
Needed For Student
Sorry for the newbie question, but what is visual
discipline?
Please remember, I was speaking
- Original Message -
From: Mark Roberts
Subject: Re: Do zooms teach visual discipline? Was: Advice
Needed For Student
From my archive of PDML quotations:
The photographer's lack of discipline is independent of the
camera.
- Pål Jensen
Good quote, and completely irrelevant
side, obviously, your approach is much better.
Taka
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of William Robb
Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2002 8:59 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Do zooms teach visual discipline? Was: Advice Needed For
Student
[snip
ROTF,LMAO ...
Taka, what is photography without some creative interpretation of the
subject? What you've described is like the difference between a mug
shot and a portrait.
Photos of cars can be greatly improved by creative techniques such as
angle of view, focal length of lens, lighting, time
I've been following this thread with great interest. The old fart in me
(I'm not that old, but sometimes I think like an old fart anyway!) agrees
with the primes are better for students argument.
For me, it falls apart when you consider that the same argument against
zooms can be used to say
From: William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Do zooms teach visual discipline? Was: Advice Needed For Student
. . .most photographers these days are not
photographers. Often, they are trying to do brain surgery with a hockey
stick.
William Robb
I definitely agree that we should
Ah-
You got me, Shel- you're absolutely right, although sometimes you just
have
to settle for what you can get, given the limitations of shooting in a
crowded
environment. Obviously, knowledge of proper technique will allow one to
instinctively
compose better photographs on the fly.
:-)
Feeling
For me, zooms can be a useful or a useless tool. A zoom may be useful if:
You only want to carry one lens.
Your legs are painted on and don't want to walk closer.
Used only after you have examined all the angles and points of view and then
use the lens to crop your vision. (most useful)
As a
- Original Message -
From: TM
Subject: RE: Do zooms teach visual discipline? Was: Advice
Needed For Student
William-
IMHO, we are all students of photography, regardless of our
skill level,
as
one can always learn something and no one is perfect. :-)
Brain surgery is the same way
- Original Message -
From: Stan Halpin
Subject: Re: Do zooms teach visual discipline? Was: Advice
Needed For Student
But seriously, leaving aside the four puns on the proceeding
line, and back
on the topic of visual discipline: I wonder why one would
want to
discipline one's own
In 003001c1fa36$8a17ad30$1502a8c0@rappr, on 05/13/02
at 02:26 PM, Bob Rapp [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
|Your legs are painted on and don't want to walk closer.
I really have an hard time understanding how this canard got started
much less gets repeated. Walking is not the same as zooming.
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