Re: [PEIRCE-L] Peirce on the Reality of God (was Trinity, Continuity, and the Cosmotheandric)

2019-06-03 Thread John F Sowa
On 6/3/2019 4:21 PM, Edwina Taborsky wrote: my definition of Atheism as a belief that the Universe is grounded in Mind, a rational force, most certainly includes 3ns. But does NOT include any metaphysical external agent/Object - aka, God. But if you gave that force some name, such as Mens,

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Peirce on the Reality of God (was Trinity, Continuity, and the Cosmotheandric)

2019-06-03 Thread John F Sowa
Jon and Edwina, Your debate depends entirely on the definition of God. There is sufficient evidence that Peirce believed in a definition that was within the broad range of what is called Christianity. But it is also consistent with the broader range that encompasses the fundamental beliefs of

[PEIRCE-L] Re: Trinity, Continuity, and the Cosmotheandric

2019-05-30 Thread John F Sowa
On 5/29/2019 3:54 PM, Gary Richmond wrote: those who are adverse to theology might consider skipping reading this post. I am not averse to good theology, but I am strongly opposed to attributing anything to Peirce that he did not explicitly write. Anybody has a right to express their own

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Continuity of Semeiosis Revisited

2019-05-27 Thread John F Sowa
Jeff, We agree. And thanks for citing the article about Riemann's hypothesis. The only point I would ask: Please don't try to harmonize me -- i.e., put me in a mental straitjacket. JBD I've raised some questions about John Sowa's remarks about First Order Predicate Logic being paradigmatic

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Harmonizing and synthesizing

2019-05-25 Thread John F Sowa
I received an offline comment about harmonizing, which raises some important issues. Offline I wonder if JAS picked up the "harmonizing" idea from Robert Brandom. I don't see any such reference in his paper, but Brandom's work is widely referenced by Peirceans. Although Brandom does not

[PEIRCE-L] Classification of the sciences (was Trinity...

2019-05-24 Thread John F Sowa
Jon AS, Gary F, Edwina, Peirce's classification of the sciences (1903 with refinements before and after) has never been surpassed or even approximated by anyone in the past century. I believe it's fundamental to understanding many issues about science, engineering, philosophy, *and* religion.

[PEIRCE-L] Harmonizing and synthesizing (was Trinity...

2019-05-23 Thread John F Sowa
Jon AS and Jerry LRC, I changed the subject line to emphasize the danger of putting anyone in a mental straitjacket by "harmonizing and synthesizing" their writings, opinions, or way of life. But first, I'll say that I enjoyed the following article by Jon: "A Neglected Additament: Peirce on

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Trinity, Continuity, and the Cosmotheandric

2019-05-21 Thread John F Sowa
Edwina and Gary R, I endorse Edwina's caveats. Her examples are among the "puffy clouds" that create ambiguities in any reasoning stated in ordinary language. After half a century of using and inventing symbolic logics, Peirce could keep the distinctions clear in his own mind, but any excerpt

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Trinity, Continuity, and the Cosmotheandric

2019-05-20 Thread John F Sowa
On 5/20/2019 4:27 PM, Jon Alan Schmidt wrote: If each of my premisses is true, and the form of my argumentation is valid --which it unquestionably is, as demonstrated below -- then the conclusion must also be true; i.e., my argumentation is sound. That is the most anti-Peircean dogma

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Methodeutic for resolving quotation wars (was Continuity...

2019-05-20 Thread John F Sowa
Jon, Anyone is welcome to claim that Satan (or anything else) is that Object [of the semeiotic proof], but thereby accepts the burden of making a case for it based on the attributes that such an Object must have. I suspect that it would amount to nothing more than equating the proper names

[PEIRCE-L] Trinity, Continuity, and the Cosmotheandric

2019-05-19 Thread John F Sowa
Gary F, Thank you for a post that doesn't go off the "deep end" by attributing arguments to Peirce that he never stated, implied, ot even hinted. GF any knowledge that any mind can have of God must consist of predicates attributed to the real Subject we call “God” — which name, says Peirce, is

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Methodeutic for resolving quotation wars (was Continuity...

2019-05-18 Thread John F Sowa
On 5/18/2019 12:30 PM, Jon Alan Schmidt wrote: If someone wishes to claim that a particular statement is being taken out of context, then that person has the burden of showing that this is the case, not merely /asserting/ it. Absolutely! That is an essential part of the methodeutic. what I

[PEIRCE-L] Re: Trinity, Continuity, and the Cosmotheandric

2019-05-18 Thread John F Sowa
On 5/18/2019 11:47 AM, Stephen Curtiss Rose wrote: There is the All or the Infinite (Dodson) or God or any other name for an inner light in each one of us which is connected to the absolute. Anything else complexifies, or even worse, erects a route by which enlightenment must be attained with

Re: Trinity, Continuity, and the Cosmotheandric, was, [PEIRCE-L] Re: Continuity of Semeiosis Revisited

2019-05-18 Thread John F Sowa
On 5/18/2019 10:48 AM, Jon Alan Schmidt wrote: On Peirce's account, if the Universe has /any effect at all/ on God, then it /cannot/ be a Sign whose Object is God.  Do you therefore deny that the Universe is a Sign?  Or do you view something other than God as its Object?  Or do you simply

[PEIRCE-L] Methodeutic for resolving quotation wars (was Continuity...

2019-05-17 Thread John F Sowa
Edwina and Jon, ET And again - all we are doing is quoting the same passages to each other, and interpreting them in different ways. I suggest we allow each other the 'grace' to do this - rather than insisting that one or the other is 'right' - and the other is a 'misinterpretation. Yes. The

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Re: Continuity of Semeiosis Revisited

2019-05-16 Thread John F Sowa
On 5/15/2019 4:59 PM, Gary Richmond wrote: All I can say is to reiterate that this does not represent Peirce's view: for him the rock /is/ the Object of the icon whatever physio-psychologically is going on in the interpreter; it is, in a word, a matter of logic not of psychology. To see it

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Re: Continuity of Semeiosis Revisited

2019-05-15 Thread John F Sowa
On 5/15/2019 3:45 PM, Gary Richmond wrote: AS: No, that answer is obviously /incorrect/, since every Sign--including every Sinsign or Token--is determined by an Object /other than itself/. I do not see how Jon's conclusion can be avoided: /Every/ Sign /must/ have an Object /other than

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Re: Continuity of Semeiosis Revisited

2019-05-15 Thread John F Sowa
Jon and Edwina, JAS Peirce wrote that "the Universe is a vast representamen", which "is perfused with signs, if it is not composed exclusively of signs" (CP 5.448n, EP 2:394; 1906). That sounds to me like "the aggregate formed by a sign and all the signs which its occurrence carries with it,"

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Re: Continuity of Semeiosis Revisited

2019-05-13 Thread John F Sowa
On 5/12/2019 5:50 PM, Jon Alan Schmidt wrote: I made a case on-List that what Peirce described as "the perfect Sign" in R 283 (partially published as EP 2:545n25; 1906) is the Universe. If Peirce had meant that, it's likely that he would have said so. The absence of such a statement is good

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Triadic and Tetradic relations

2019-05-12 Thread John F Sowa
Jeff, Mike, and Jon, Mathematics is diagrammatic reasoning, and EGs are a version of logic that uses a more flexible and versatile system of diagrams than Peirce's algebra of 1885 or any algebra since then. But the diagrams are fundamental. Any words used to describe the diagrams are useful

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Triadic and Tetradic relations

2019-05-11 Thread John F Sowa
Jeff and Jon, To clarify these issues, search CP for every occurrence of "A gives B". Peirce states the issues in different ways, but the following example illustrates the general principle: A triad may be explicated into a triadic tetrad. Thus, A gives B to C becomes A makes the covenant D

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Continuity: explaining time, space and other sorts of laws

2019-05-02 Thread John F Sowa
Jon, That is important. Do you have a citation? JAS I recently came across some research suggesting that the manuscript pages for Peirce's "tutorial" on EGs were misfiled with R 514, and do not actually date to 1909; rather, he likely wrote the material either shortly before or at the same

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Continuity: explaining time, space and other sorts of laws

2019-05-02 Thread John F Sowa
On 5/2/2019 11:09 AM, Jon Alan Schmidt wrote: I intend to explore further the analogy that he drew between this and continuous semeiosis vs. definite Propositions, which amount to instantaneous snapshots of Arguments as captured by EGs on a Sheet of Assertion. The continuous predicates have

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Continuity: explaining time, space and other sorts of laws

2019-05-02 Thread John F Sowa
On 5/1/2019 7:06 PM, Jeffrey Brian Downard wrote: Peirce's fundamental hypotheses concerning the nature of time and space--and the relations between them--may very well run deeper and look further towards the future than what Einstein had to offer. To a large extent that is true. Peirce knew

[PEIRCE-L] Genuinely triadic relations, laws and symbols

2019-04-18 Thread John F Sowa
On 4/18/2019 11:27 AM, Jon Alan Schmidt wrote: Now, when we say that a flower /is /blue, I agree that we are not claiming that a flower /is identical to/ blueness; instead, we are saying that a flower /possesses the character of/ blueness.  Likewise, there is a sense in which we can say that a

[PEIRCE-L] Peirce was fallible, and so are we (was Genuinely triadic...

2019-04-17 Thread John F Sowa
Edwina, I changed the subject line to emphasize fallibility. See below for some quotations in which Peirce admits his own limitations. Peirce would *never* say that any universal principle is the absolutely final truth. But he did say that it's possible to detect falsehood. One example is

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Genuinely triadic relations, laws and symbols

2019-04-17 Thread John F Sowa
Jeff, Edwina, and Gary R, Peirce frequently said that he thinks in diagrams and that he has considerable difficulty in translating his thoughts into words. When Peirce or anybody else is doing diagrammatic reasoning, some words may be helpful as explanations. But as soon as we are clear about

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Genuinely triadic relations, laws and symbols

2019-04-16 Thread John F Sowa
Folks, The clearest test for a genuine Thirdness is the presence of some intentionality -- of some animate being or of some law of nature. I like the examples Peirce cited in CP 1.366 below. General principle: Intentionality by some animate agent is always a genuine Thirdness. That agent may

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Peirce admitted that his terminology of 1906 was bad.

2019-04-15 Thread John F Sowa
Gary F and Jon AS, GF I’ve just been on a wild goose chase trying to check out Peirce’s cryptic remarks about his choice of “blot” in L 376. I checked Cora's etymological dictionaries. The one that traces Greek roots to Indo-European doesn't mention φλἀω. Another says that φλἀω is rare in

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Peirce admitted that his terminology of 1906 was bad.

2019-04-14 Thread John F Sowa
Gary F, Jon AS, I know what Peirce wrote about efficiency. But I also know that he was the author of "Logical Machines" (1887) and that he urged Oscar Mitchell to consider electrical circuits as a more efficient basis for designing logical machines. For those reasons, Peirce has been called a

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Peirce admitted that his terminology of 1906 was bad.

2019-04-13 Thread John F Sowa
Jon AS, Gary F, and Jeff, When we're talking about classical first-order logic, the semantics of every precisely defined notation for the past 140 years has a precisely defined mapping to and from every other version. On this point, there are no controversial issues. The mapping is either

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Peirce admitted that his terminology of 1906 was bad.

2019-04-12 Thread John F Sowa
Gary F, The introduction of the term “blot” for “the simplest part of speech which this syntax contemplates” is especially interesting, as I’d never seen it before (although he did use the term “blot” in 1903 to explain why a cut should be read as negation). The word 'blot' is a short name

[PEIRCE-L] Peirce admitted that his terminology of 1906 was bad.

2019-04-11 Thread John F Sowa
Folks, I have repeatedly said that Peirce's description of existential graphs in 1909-1911 was his final preferred version. I'm happy to report that he explicitly said so in a letter to Risteen, MS L 376, December 6, 1911: An account of [the syntax of existential graphs] was given in the

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Recovery from blindness (was Phaneroscopy and logic

2019-04-09 Thread John F Sowa
Jeff and Dan, We have to distinguish "a priori" in a logical sense from "innate" in a biological sense. Peirce interpreted the word 'innate' as learned from the experience of previous generations. That may be a priori for an individual, but it's a posteriori for the species. JBD It is worth

[PEIRCE-L] Recovery from blindness (was Phaneroscopy and logic

2019-04-08 Thread John F Sowa
This morning, I remembered some case studies of people who were blind from early childhood and later recovered their sight. Those studies cast doubt on Kant's claim that people have a complete innate theory of space and time. The brain may have innate structure that facilitates learning about

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Phaneroscopy and logic

2019-04-07 Thread John F Sowa
Gary F, Jeff BD, Dan, GF could it be you’re thinking of Peirce’s “Logic of Quantity,” 1893 (CP 4.85-92) Kant declares that the question of his great work is “How are synthetical judgments a priori possible?” By a priori he means universal; by synthetical, experiential (i.e., relating to

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Phaneroscopy and logic

2019-04-07 Thread John F Sowa
On 4/7/2019 1:59 PM, Jeffrey Brian Downard wrote: As an example of an /a priori/ element in moral cognition, consider the role of the /feeling/ of respect in deliberation about the what is required as a matter of duty. As an example of an a priori element in aesthetic judgment, consider the

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Identity vs, Spa-Tem Location

2019-03-30 Thread John F Sowa
Edwina and Jerry R, ET That's exactly my point - as you say: "Any ontology that is not designed for some purpose or intention has no purpose" Yes. Ontolog Forum (the source of original notes I was addressing) has a very clear purpose: Represent knowledge about some subject in a logical form

[PEIRCE-L] Re: [ontolog-forum] Identity vs, Spa-Tem Location

2019-03-30 Thread John F Sowa
Pat C, Matthew, Phil M, and Jon A, Basic issue: How do we determine whether two things that we experience on different occasions (or that we describe in different ways) are "the same"? For example, suppose we describe something as a vase, and somebody else describes it as a lump of clay. Are

Re: [PEIRCE-L] The danger of destroying Peirce's semeiotic (was Ambiguities...

2019-03-28 Thread John F Sowa
Jon AS, Francesco, Gary R, Gary F, Jerry LRC, and List, I haven't had time to respond to the recent notes, but I dug into more of Peirce's writings. There is much more to say. But in this note, I'll recommend an article Jon cited, and show how the quotation cited by Francesco clarifies the

Re: [PEIRCE-L] The danger of destroying Peirce's semeiotic (was Ambiguities...

2019-03-24 Thread John F Sowa
Jon AS and Gary R, JAS: The new thread title is alarmist hyperbole. GR: I strongly agree My word 'danger' is mild compared to the vehement denunciation that Peirce would pronounce if anybody would introduce a contradiction in his system of semeiotic. Peirce-List should be alarmed. Among

[PEIRCE-L] The danger of destroying Peirce's semeiotic (was Ambiguities...

2019-03-22 Thread John F Sowa
Edwina, Jon AS, Gary R, and List, I apologize if anyone was offended by the release of excerpts from offline notes. My only excuse is that I sent it at 2:10 AM. The next morning, I was surprised that I had hit SEND. The conclusion of that note is far more important than a debating point. I

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Subjects and Predicates (prelude to Ambiguities...

2019-03-22 Thread John F Sowa
Jerry and Joe, I'll say more about related issues in the thread on ambiguities. But I just wanted to comment on these points: JAS: you throw everything possible into the predicate, leaving only an indicated subject; I throw everything possible into the subject, leaving only a continuous

[PEIRCE-L] Ambiguities in the word 'subject'

2019-03-22 Thread John F Sowa
Jon and I had an offline exchange. He sent me a list of offline comments by readers who were also misled by the ambiguity in the word 'subject'. See the *anonymous* comments below. A mistaken interpretation of just one word is not a big deal. But Jon's claim that a subject could be a Seme

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Subjects and Predicates (was The Bedrock Beneath Pragmaticism)

2019-03-21 Thread John F Sowa
On 3/21/2019 5:58 PM, Jon Alan Schmidt wrote: JFS: No version of logic after syllogisms made a binary distinction between subject and predicate. That statement is false. According to my dictionary, a "subject" is defined as "the term of a logical proposition that denotes the entity of which

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Subjects and Predicates (was The Bedrock Beneath Pragmaticism)

2019-03-21 Thread John F Sowa
On 3/21/2019 11:59 AM, Jon Alan Schmidt wrote: Natural languages are anything but precise, and as Peirce himself affirmed, even in logic the dividing line between the subject and predicate within any given proposition is somewhat arbitrary. That statement is partly false, and rest is

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Subjects and Predicates (was The Bedrock Beneath Pragmaticism)

2019-03-21 Thread John F Sowa
On 3/20/2019 10:57 PM, Jon Alan Schmidt wrote: Peirce did not say, "Every sentence in English contains a grammatical subject and a grammatical predicate"; he said, "Every proposition contains a Subject and a Predicate." You're grasping at straws to salvage a lost cause. The title of the

Re: [PEIRCE-L] The Bedrock Beneath Pragmaticism

2019-03-20 Thread John F Sowa
On 3/20/2019 11:37 AM, g...@gnusystems.ca wrote: I thought a Medad was (by definition) a graph with no loose ends. NEM 3:164 (or p. 4 of eg1911.pdf) says "A graph or graph instance having 0 peg is a Medad." There are many places were Peirce says that a line of identity, by itself asserts

Re: [PEIRCE-L] RE: Phenomenology: a "science-egg,"

2019-03-18 Thread John F Sowa
On 3/17/2019 11:12 PM, Jon Alan Schmidt wrote: the apparent contradiction was between saying that a percept "does not stand for anything" (1903) and saying that "a Percept is a Seme" (1906). That contradiction is the result of claiming that a Seme is a subject. As a First, a Seme is pure

Re: [PEIRCE-L] The Bedrock Beneath Pragmaticism

2019-03-17 Thread John F Sowa
Gary F, Francesco, and Jon AS, The puzzle is solved. I thank all three of you for forcing me to consider more passages by Peirce. They show how and why EGs are the Bedrock that determines where the stones fit in the mosaic. I took a fair amount of time to write this note because I plan to

Re: [PEIRCE-L] The Bedrock Beneath Pragmaticism

2019-03-12 Thread John F Sowa
Francesco and Jerry LRC, Thanks for both of your comments. They are critical for resolving these issues. FB In R 295, a draft of the "Prolegomena", Peirce says: CSP: The first member of the triplet, the “Seme,” embraces the logical Term, the Subject or Object of a sentence, everything of any

Re: [PEIRCE-L] The Bedrock Beneath Pragmaticism

2019-03-12 Thread John F Sowa
Gary F and Jon AS, GF Peirce’s classification of sciences is itself ambiguous... Hence the significance of Peirce claiming that logicians will have to study “the physiology of signs” simply because nobody else is going to do it (R 499 as quoted by Bellucci). This complicates the traditional

Re: [PEIRCE-L] The Bedrock Beneath Pragmaticism

2019-03-11 Thread John F Sowa
Gary F and Jon AS. GF As for [the disputes], rather than taking sides on the issue, I prefer to attribute the dispute itself to the ambiguity of the words “phenomenology” and “semeiotic.” I agree. I'm writing a longer note that gets into some important issues that André De Tienne raises his

Re: [PEIRCE-L] The Bedrock Beneath Pragmaticism

2019-03-10 Thread John F Sowa
Gary R, Jon AS, and Gary F, Peirce's 1903 Outline Classification of the Sciences (CP 1.180 - 202) is his last complete version. I used it as the specification for nearly every solid and dotted line in the attached cspsci.png. I took into account some of his earlier writings in order to

Re: [PEIRCE-L] The Bedrock Beneath Pragmaticism

2019-03-09 Thread John F Sowa
On 3/9/2019 3:24 PM, Gary Richmond wrote: After all, Peirce sometimes suggests that the quasi-equivalent to pragmatism in 'ordinary' speech and thinking is critical-common sense. And, indeed, pragmaticism itself would seem to depend on it. I agree. Homo saps and their ancestors have existed

Re: [PEIRCE-L] The Bedrock Beneath Pragmaticism

2019-03-08 Thread John F Sowa
Gary R and Jon AS, Two comments on your comments. GR I would deeply question your placing semeiotics below phaneroscopy in such a diagram--applications of normative logic can occur in any science save mathematics. That's true. But all the data of *every* science comes from some observation

Re: [PEIRCE-L] The Bedrock Beneath Pragmaticism

2019-03-05 Thread John F Sowa
On 3/5/2019 4:15 PM, Jerry LR Chandler wrote: the newly transcribed Bedrock manuscript concerning the role of subjects and predicates in the Bedrock as contrasted with the Artificial Intelligent Interpretations of John Sowa. There is much more to say about the Bedrock, but I just wanted to

[PEIRCE-L] C. S. Peirce web site at Harvard

2019-02-28 Thread John F Sowa
I came across a new web site at Harvard that is dedicated to the Peirce papers and related issues: https://library.harvard.edu/collections/charles-s-peirce-papers You can explore the collections of "More than 100,000 pages of working notes and drafts by the influential philosopher and

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Analyzing Propositions (was EGs and Phaneroscopy)

2019-02-28 Thread John F Sowa
On 2/27/2019 12:32 PM, Jon Alan Schmidt wrote: I focused on representing Propositions, rather than the process of reasoning; and then I decided accordingly to call the resulting diagrams Propositional Graphs, rather than Modified Existential Graphs. The notation for every version of logic from

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Analyzing Propositions (was EGs and Phaneroscopy)

2019-02-26 Thread John F Sowa
On 2/26/2019 12:45 PM, Jon Alan Schmidt wrote: Why should anyone /presuppose /that your analysis is somehow /intrinsically /more accurate than mine? They shouldn't presuppose anything. They can just look at the proof. I showed that your interpretation of Peirce was inconsistent with what he

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Analyzing Propositions (was EGs and Phaneroscopy)

2019-02-26 Thread John F Sowa
On 2/26/2019 9:49 AM, Jon Alan Schmidt wrote: I am not /your /student, and we are /both /students of Peirce. Yes. But you have a lot to learn about recognizing the precision in Peirce's writings. If you prefer, I won't call you a student. I'll call you a "loose thinker". I am not willing

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Analyzing Propositions (was EGs and Phaneroscopy)

2019-02-26 Thread John F Sowa
On 2/26/2019 7:34 AM, Stephen Curtiss Rose wrote: "Because Peirce was very precise in what he wrote, and he had no sympathy with people who misrepresented what he was saying." That seems a mite broad. Many people, including me, have found that in most publications, even by prominent Peirce

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Analyzing Propositions (was EGs and Phaneroscopy)

2019-02-25 Thread John F Sowa
On 2/25/2019 9:04 PM, Jon Alan Schmidt wrote: Why not just accept the fact (as I have) that we are pursuing different purposes, and therefore adopting different approaches accordingly?  Why insist that I /must /adhere to /your /analysis of propositions and /your /preference for unmodified EGs?

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Analyzing Propositions (was EGs and Phaneroscopy)

2019-02-20 Thread John F Sowa
On 2/20/2019 12:40 PM, Jon Alan Schmidt wrote: As Gary F. already pointed out, only when someone insists on interpreting them as if they were /ordinary /EGs Yes. I acknowledged that. I suggest that you convert MEGs to conventional EGs by using the triad Rel. Please *study* my last two

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Analyzing Propositions (was EGs and Phaneroscopy)

2019-02-20 Thread John F Sowa
On 2/20/2019 12:22 PM, g...@gnusystems.ca wrote: GF: I can’t find any trace of /phaneroscopic/ observation in that presentation, at the conclusion or anywhere else. What I see throughout is /observation of diagrams/ as a key element of formal or deductive logic, Yes. That was not the focus

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Analyzing Propositions (was EGs and Phaneroscopy)

2019-02-20 Thread John F Sowa
On 2/20/2019 9:20 AM, g...@gnusystems.ca wrote: What you’ve said about Jon’s MEGs, though, is true only if we read the lines in those diagrams as Lines of Identity; and the main modification Jon made was to read the lines NOT as Lines of Identity but as Lines of Relation. I agree. But it

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Analyzing Propositions (was EGs and Phaneroscopy)

2019-02-19 Thread John F Sowa
Edwina, Gary R, and Jon AS, Finally, this thread has reached the dénoument, when the pieces fall into place and the mysterious knots are untied. Every so-called Modified EG (MEG) is false. The file brutus.png shows how to replace MEGs with ordinary EGs that satisfy all of Peirce's criteria.

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Analyzing Propositions (was EGs and Phaneroscopy)

2019-02-14 Thread John F Sowa
On 2/14/2019 11:59 AM, Helmut Raulien wrote: So far I think, that the sheet of assertion means to symbolize a universe with clear true/false rules. But what, if every subject (at least, if the subjects are organisms) has its own universe (speaking with Uexküll and the constructivists)? I'm

[PEIRCE-L] Examples of continuity in semiosis

2019-02-06 Thread John F Sowa
I started to reply to some of the issues in recent notes. And I realized that some examples would help clarify the many issues about continuity and semiosis. For the first example, see the attached diagram frere2.gif. At the top is traditional notation for one bar of music. That diagram

Re: [PEIRCE-L] A seme is a predicate or a quasi-predicate

2019-02-02 Thread John F Sowa
On 2/2/2019 8:16 PM, Jon Alan Schmidt wrote: Peirce did not introduce the concept of the Continuous Predicate until 1908, so anything that he wrote about Propositions prior to that reflects a different analysis--presumably the same one adopted in modern predicate logic, which you continue to

[PEIRCE-L] A seme is a predicate or a quasi-predicate

2019-02-02 Thread John F Sowa
Jon AS, list I changed the subject line to emphasize the conclusion. To see the evolution of Peirce's ideas, look at the chronological developments. In 1903, Peirce defined the word 'seme' in a way that is inconsistent with what he wrote in 1906: An Index or Seme is a Representamen whose

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Peirce's Speculative Grammar: Logic as Semiotic

2019-01-30 Thread John F Sowa
Stephen and Jon, SCR I have longed for some sense that there could be conversation that recognizes the efforts of persons like me who have labored considerably to create a more general and universal understanding that will resonate with ordinary readers. I agree that those issues are far more

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Peirce's Speculative Grammar: Logic as Semiotic

2019-01-29 Thread John F Sowa
Jon AS, I suppose that I could invent my own word, but that would violate Peirce's ethics of terminology in the other direction, since he already created a suitable one--which happens to have the advantage of being the root of "semiosis" and "sem(e)iotic." In his article on the ethics of

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Peirce's Speculative Grammar: Logic as Semiotic

2019-01-29 Thread John F Sowa
On 1/29/2019 8:49 AM, Edwina Taborsky wrote: my view is that Peirce's analytic framework is logical, rational and yes, extremely simple, even basic, in its pragmatic workability to explain the cognitive, biological and physico-chemical realms. Insisting on 'this term' and not 'that term' moves

[PEIRCE-L] Peirce's Speculative Grammar: Logic as Semiotic

2019-01-29 Thread John F Sowa
I received an offline note from an author who has written books and papers about issues related to the recent discussions. On the neglect of Peirce's writings by modern philosophers, the author wrote: You're certainly right. The reason is probably Peirce's forbidding terminology and the serious

Re: [PEIRCE-L] The structure of recent philosophy

2019-01-28 Thread John F Sowa
Helmut and Jon, HR But what is an *argument" with the "is" used for identity, like "is and only is", or "exactly is"? I agree that more detail is required for a definition of 'argument'. Every argument includes a sequence of propositions, but an arbitrary sequence of propositions is not an

Re: [PEIRCE-L] The structure of recent philosophy

2019-01-27 Thread John F Sowa
Jon AS, In modern predicate logic, is the variable a predicate, a proposition, or an argument (in Peirce's sense)? Clearly none of these, so either a fourth division is required or the first one must be widened. Every sentence in every version of logic, formal or informal, consists of

Re: [PEIRCE-L] The structure of recent philosophy

2019-01-27 Thread John F Sowa
On 1/27/2019 12:36 AM, Gary Richmond wrote: I might quibble with the language "/pure/ index"--is there such a thing? I support the quibble. Just look at any index, such as a weather vane. It has an arrow that points in the direction of the wind. And that arrow resembles (is an icon of) the

Re: [PEIRCE-L] The structure of recent philosophy

2019-01-26 Thread John F Sowa
Jon AS, the subject matter here is not limited to logic as the science of Symbols--it is semeiotic as the science of all Signs. In the quotations below, logic is "another name for semiotic." All theories, including every version of logic and semiotic, are stated in symbols, but symbols can be

Re: [PEIRCE-L] The structure of recent philosophy

2019-01-26 Thread John F Sowa
Edwina and Jon AS, I think that this transformative semiosis is what should be emphasized, since its infrastructure is a powerful speculative framework, which can be used with great effect in examining and explaining not only linguistic evolution and cognitive processes but also biological

[PEIRCE-L] The structure of recent philosophy

2019-01-26 Thread John F Sowa
I came across a diagram that shows the patterns of references to various philosophers in publications from 1950 to the present: https://homepage.univie.ac.at/noichlm94/img/struct_phil_iii/full_struct.pdf See below for a description of how that diagram was derived. Most of the references are to

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Continuity of Semiosis

2019-01-25 Thread John F Sowa
Jon AS and Jerry LRC, JAS I see the difference between a Rheme and a Seme (now a Term)... Peirce mentioned the word 'term' only in the first sentence of CP 4.538. I suspect that he used that word because most of his readers were familiar with syllogisms. But today, predicate calculus is the

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Continuity of Semiosis

2019-01-25 Thread John F Sowa
Jon AS, after introducing Seme/Pheme/Delome in 1906, did Peirce ever use term/proposition/argument when referring to non-Symbols? What about when referring to Existential Graphs? CP 4.538 (copied below) is from a 1906 Monist article about EGs. That paragraph and a few after it seem to be the

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Continuity of Semiosis

2019-01-23 Thread John F Sowa
Jon AS and Jerry LRC, JAS A familiar logical triplet is Term, Proposition, Argument. In order to make this a division of all signs, the first two members have to be much widened. (CP 4.538; 1906) If term and proposition were likewise synonymous with Seme and Pheme, respectively, then why did

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Continuity of Semiosis

2019-01-23 Thread John F Sowa
Jerry LRC and Jon AS, JLRC I will stick with term, proposition and argument for general usage. The stretch of meaning to geometric terms with deep importance in mathematics is not, in my view warranted. I agree. Peirce was very familiar with Cantor's writings and related issues in 19th c.

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Continuity of Semiosis

2019-01-14 Thread John F Sowa
On 1/14/2019 10:27 PM, Jon Alan Schmidt wrote: Perhaps that is why John Sowa found the terminology of "continuous semiosis" objectionable, despite his acceptance of "the continuity of semiosis." Actually, my only objection to the term 'continuous semiosis' is that it's redundant. If the

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Continuity of Semiosis

2019-01-14 Thread John F Sowa
Edwina, I agree with the points in your notes this morning: the 'material parts' of a Sign are its existence in space and time; a Sign, that triad, whether functioning as an insect or the word for that insect - is 'material' in that it exists in space and time. I think that the two phrases in

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Continuity of Semiosis

2019-01-14 Thread John F Sowa
Jerry R and Jeff BD, I would never stop anybody from discussing anything they wish. But Peirce objected to people who took his words ('pragmatism', for example) and used them in ways that were inconsistent with the way he defined them. JR Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t semiosis a greek

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Continuity of Semiosis

2019-01-13 Thread John F Sowa
Folks, The discussion in this thread suggests the following points: 1. Peirce used the terms 'continuous' and 'semiosis', but there is no evidence that he used the terms 'continuous semiosis' or 'continuity of semiosis'. 2. Since Peirce said that anything continuous must have

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Continuity of Semiosis

2019-01-12 Thread John F Sowa
Edwina and Gary R, ET I don't see the term 'continuous semiosis' to mean the history of that chair and its uses. I just cited Whitehead's example to show how he related an abstract discussion to a familiar example. I was just asking for any kind of example. ET our universe is continuously

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Continuity of Semiosis

2019-01-12 Thread John F Sowa
On 1/12/2019 1:36 PM, Edwina Taborsky wrote: To actually discern individuals, we have to move into the 'hic et nunc' of 'now-time' - which deliberately isolates itself from any continuity. I was asking for an example that could involve a range of individuals or it could be some individual over

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Continuity of Semiosis

2019-01-12 Thread John F Sowa
Can anyone give an example of continuous semiosis in language or reasoning? I searched for all occurrences of 'continuous' in CP and EP2. None of those occurrences were applied to the word 'semiosis'. I also searched for all occurrences of 'semiosis', and none of them occurred in the same

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Biosemiotics on YouTube

2019-01-01 Thread John F Sowa
Stephen, That list of titles sounded intriguing. I didn't have time to watch all of them, but the first was enough to make me worry about having a happy new year: Propaganda & Art: How we process information when we aren't thinking But I recommend it anyway:

Re: [PEIRCE-L] What is a Triad?

2018-12-18 Thread John F Sowa
On 12/18/2018 12:35 PM, Stephen Curtiss Rose wrote: Henceforth I will try to confine this to topics explicitly given a subject line Triadic Philosophy. That's good. My only point is that there are two distinct questions, and it's important to be clear about which one is being discussed: 1.

Re: [PEIRCE-L] What is a Triad?

2018-12-18 Thread John F Sowa
On 12/18/2018 7:04 AM, Stephen Curtiss Rose wrote: [JFS] A monad P says "This chunk of experience is a P." A dyad R says "This chunk is related to that chunk by R." A triad M says "The mediator M relates this chunk to that chunk." I would suggest: A monad is stands on its own, a subject,

Re: [PEIRCE-L] the sexuality of methodeutic

2018-12-17 Thread John F Sowa
On 12/17/2018 4:30 PM, g...@gnusystems.ca wrote: Possibly what I’m saying here is not much different from what you meant, Yes. We mostly agree on the issues with some variations in terminology. When I said "The categories of 1ns, 2ns, 3ns are ways of classifying experiences in the

Re: [PEIRCE-L] the sexuality of methodeutic

2018-12-16 Thread John F Sowa
Gary F, Edwina, Jon AS GF My suggestion is that Peirce’s three categories or “elements” can be regarded as elements of Aristotelian Form: Quality is the Firstness of Form, Actuality is the Secondness of Form, and Growth is the Thirdness of Form. As for Aristotelian Matter, it is simply

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Another Perspective on 'Quasi-Mind'

2018-12-06 Thread John F Sowa
In discussing quasimind, it's important to consider Aristotle's hierarchy of psyches in _De Anima_. Since Peirce was familiar with Aristotle, that hierarchy may have had some influence on his views: 1. Vegetative psyche of plants. 2. Sensitive psyche of sessile animals like sponges and

[PEIRCE-L] Diagrammatic Reasoning With EGs and EGIF

2018-11-26 Thread John F Sowa
. The references include some introductory and some more advanced articles. Most of them have URLs. John __ Diagrammatic Reasoning With EGs and EGIF John F. Sowa Abstract.  Diagrammatic reasoning dominated mathematics until

Re: Open Question was Re: [PEIRCE-L] Systematic Framework for Speculative Grammar.

2018-11-02 Thread John F Sowa
On 11/2/2018 10:45 AM, Jon Alan Schmidt wrote: JFS: I challenge anybody to find an example for which rheme and dicisign have a more general meaning than predicate and proposition. I provided one already--a rheme can be (and often is) a subject, rather than a predicate; and at the limit of

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