"While conservative and liberal communities formulate their separate
identities, [Americans] search for leaders to champion their way of life.
They turn to pundits who are skilled in challenging opposing agenda's in the
public realm. Conservatively, the Mainstream Personal Identifier (MPI) and
libe
--- Michael Hoover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> the working class can kiss my ass, i've got the
> foreman's job at last...
> michael hoover
And now for a song about Mr. Block.
First published in the 6 Mar 1913 edition (fifth
edition) of the Industrial Worker "Little Red
Songbook."
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 11/02/03 8:34 AM >>>
One of the titles of a chapter in Michael Moore's new book is "Death to
Horatio Alger." His premise is that just the dream of someday becoming
rich undermines class solidarity. It really is the all-American dream,
the "rags-to-riches" story.
Troy
"Devine,
One of the titles of a chapter in Michael Moore's new book is "Death to Horatio Alger." His premise is that just the dream of someday becoming rich undermines class solidarity. It really is the all-American dream, the "rags-to-riches" story.
Troy"Devine, James" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > ravi
Ken:
> I don't smoke... But I think yer a bit harsh on our dyslexic
> lawyer friend.
I have nothing against Justin, Ken. The problem is not him but
the "contract theory", which is a direct consequence of "western
rationality". And contracts require lawyers. If it is not Justin,
there will be some
--- Kenneth Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> You should definitely support your local loon Nazi's
> right to smoke
> tobacco.
(tobacco doused in lots of pesticide)
Mike B)
=
*
"the Council Republic is not the culmination
> Why is it that we generate so much more interest discussing personalities
> rather than ideas?
If you don't know that, why are you a socialist ?
J.
Hey Justin –
I will take a re-peek at the Dennis case. But I believe Black (and
Douglas) were strongly against it. I believe Rutledge and Murphy were
replaced by conservative Democrats. And Frankfurter and Jackson were a
kind of reverse of what Eisenhower felt about Warren and Brennan.
I guess it
Why is it that we generate so much more interest discussing personalities
rather than ideas? Why when a person takes a contrary postion, do we --
not just on this list -- find a need to denounce the person in general.
I just heard Studs Turkel -- tape delay -- interviewd on KPFA discussing
Dan B
JKS writes:>I'd be proud to defend the First
>Amendment ina NAzi case too.<
I wrote:
>if the gov't cracks down on the Nazis, they crack down on
>the Left, too, most often in a bigger way. A first
>amendment defense of the Nazis is indirectly
>defending the Left.
From: Kenneth Campbell
Elementary
From: andie nachgeborenen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
... Roosevelt tried to pack the court, and
failed. One of the former bad guy justices switched
his view and started supporting the New Deal
Or as was said at the time: A switch in time saves nine.
Carl
__
t; -- Steven Wright
>
>
> >-Original Message-
> >From: PEN-L list [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of andie
> >nachgeborenen
> >Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 6:04 AM
> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Subject: Re: [PEN-L] In defence of
Carl, I smoked a pipe for several decades before quitting -- and I would
be afraid to add up how many thousands of dollars (not covered by
insurance) I have spent on repairing (partly) the damage it did to my
teeth. Right now, I've got a large gap in the front of my mouth (upper)
which has cost me
o: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: Re: [PEN-L] In defence of Krugman
>
>
>Actually, no. Roosevelt tried to pack the court, and
>failed. One of the former bad guy justices switched
>his view and started supporting the New Deal. The
>Roosevelt era court mainly supported expanded govt
&g
Actually, no. Roosevelt tried to pack the court, and
failed. One of the former bad guy justices switched
his view and started supporting the New Deal. The
Roosevelt era court mainly supported expanded govt
power to regulate business, not primarily enhanced
free speech and civil rights. Its most not
>JKS writes:>I'd be proud to defend the First
>Amendment ina NAzi case too.<
>
>if the gov't cracks down on the Nazis, they crack down on
>the Left, too, most often in a bigger way. A first
>amendment defense of the Nazis is indirectly
>defending the Left.
Elementary, my dear Mr. Devine. :)
You k
Sabri, yer gonna out live us all. Some Turkish hills thing. Worry not.
I don't smoke... But I think yer a bit harsh on our dyslexic lawyer
friend.
You wrote:
>Western rationality requires, or leads to, Justins of the world.
Adults have the right to kill themselves, in any way they wish. As long
Yea , I smoked a pipe for many yeares and enjoyed it -- until I became a
victim of ashma and quit smoking. Now I find smoke of any sort a
terrible hazard. More so for my wife for whom smoke of any sort
triggers heart fibrilations that are potentially fatal. I think the
tobacco companies deser
After hearing Carrol's story and reminded of Mark Jones, I don't
think my future looks that bright.
Not a pipe smoker though, just cigarettes. Given my family
history, most likely I will pass away because of lung cancer.
Who says human beings are rational?
What was that rationality of the Wester
- Original Message -
From: "Yoshie Furuhashi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> The "broader progressive movement" is lacking in political clarity
> when it comes to the FTAA and free trade, because it is a very
> politically mixed bag, a dominant component of which in the USA has
> been protectionist
I think the problem with the Krugman phenomenon is not so much
Krugman but the broader progressive movement. Because Krugman has
written columns critical of the Bush administration he gets raised
to the status of intellectual leader of the progressive movement--by
progresives. Krugman came throug
Carl, I smoked a pipe for several decades before quitting -- and I would
be afraid to add up how many thousands of dollars (not covered by
insurance) I have spent on repairing (partly) the damage it did to my
teeth. Right now, I've got a large gap in the front of my mouth (upper)
which has cost me
Carl Remick wrote:
>
>
>
> No, as a pipe smoker I must say you're serving a worthy cause. In fact, I
> think you should be serving in a pro bono capacity ;-)
>
Carl, I smoked a pipe for several decades before quitting -- and I would
be afraid to add up how many thousands of dollars (not covered b
From: andie nachgeborenen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
I make my living in part defending tobacco companies,
and I make a lot of money too -- not as much as Dees,
but I'm getting there, if I stay here, I will someday.
I must be a real scumbag.
No, as a pipe smoker I must say you're serving a worthy cause.
That is what I meant, but clearer than what I wrote.
On Fri, Oct 31, 2003 at 01:08:20PM -0800, Devine, James wrote:
> Michael Perelman writes:
> >Stiglitz seems a bit different. He is much more of a pure academic who
> was offended by the political hacks -- Doug would know better than I, but
> t
Michael Perelman writes:
>Stiglitz seems a bit different. He is much more of a pure academic who
was offended by the political hacks -- Doug would know better than I, but
this is my impression. I also do not have the impression that he is
someone who craves attention, although he does not shy awa
Marty's note and many others are right on target. Krugman does not
pretend to be a lefty. During the Clinton years, people attacked him
here, and for good reason. Barkeley Rosser criticized his professional
behavior -- quasi-plagiarism.
Krugman attacks anyone who disagrees with him, on the left
> > ravi:
> > > michael moore when asked about his multi-million dollar new york
> > > apartment responded that his blue-collar ex-neighbours (in clint
> > > michigan) would be proud and happy for him. perhaps.
me:
> > On the Left, it used to be said that "nothing is too good
> for the working c
Wait a sec Justin. If you're making big bucks defending tabbacco, well
that's understandable. Big tabbacco makes big bucks that they use to pay
you. But if some guy is making big bucks from poor black people who
think that he will defend them in discrimination/criminal suits and
then spending all
"Devine, James" wrote:
>
> ravi:
> > michael moore when asked about his multi-million dollar new york
> > apartment responded that his blue-collar ex-neighbours (in clint
> > michigan) would be proud and happy for him. perhaps.
>
> On the Left, it used to be said that "nothing is too good for the w
andie nachgeborenen wrote:
> My First Amendment prof was David Goldberger, who was
> the ACLU lawyer in the Skokie-Nazi case. Sorry, youw
> on;t find me condemning the Illinois ACLU for
> defending the right of the Nazis to speak. I can ask
> Colleen Connell (the Exec Dir of the Ill ACLU, anda
> fr
From: Louis Proyect <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Jurriaan Bendien wrote:
The question that needs to be asked is what we achieve by polemically
writing off Krugman and calling him nasty names. Krugman is a very learned
left-liberal economist capable of very good critical inquiry into the US
economy and sugg
Brian McKenna wrote:
You have taught me so much -- via LBO and your radio show which I
love to tune in via the net (I even once met you at the Socialist
Scholars Conference in NY in the 80s. . .I believe on a panel w/
Kovel). . .but so as Cockburn taught me much. . .
that's all a way of saying tha
Doug,
You have taught me so much -- via LBO and your radio show which I love to tune in via the net (I even once met you at the Socialist Scholars Conference in NY in the 80s. . .I believe on a panel w/ Kovel). . .but so as Cockburn taught me much. . .
that's all a way of saying that I respect yo
Brian McKenna wrote:
I love Silverstein's work too. . .wanted to know more about your
"shoot before aiming" remark, I assume about AC. .
Yup, AC.
Doug
andie nachgeborenen wrote:
How terrible, Dees makes soo much money, how dare he.
People who work for good causesa re supposed to be
POOR. You wanna guess how much Tigar makes? Or
Kunstler made? I bet it wasa lot more than Dees.
I wouldn't mind Dees getting big bucks if he was doing something usefu
Doug,
I love Silverstein's work too. . .wanted to know more about your "shoot before aiming" remark, I assume about AC. . .
Brian McKenna
How terrible, Dees makes soo much money, how dare he.
People who work for good causesa re supposed to be
POOR. You wanna guess how much Tigar makes? Or
Kunstler made? I bet it wasa lot more than Dees.
Hey, Louis, I'm a corporate lawyer at a big law firm;
I make my living in part defending tobacc
JKS writes:>I'd be proud to defend the First
Amendment ina NAzi case too.<
if the gov't cracks down on the Nazis, they crack down on the Left, too, most
often in a bigger way. A first amendment defense of the Nazis is indirectly
defending the Left.
Jim
I invite pen-l'ers to look at the IRS forms for SPLC that are online at:
http://www.splcenter.org/pdf/static/SPLC_IRS_990_2001.pdf
It has total assets of $134 million! Dees makes $258,000 per year. The 3
people in charge of fundraising make a total of $300,000 per year. This
is a big-time operati
My First Amendment prof was David Goldberger, who was
the ACLU lawyer in the Skokie-Nazi case. Sorry, youw
on;t find me condemning the Illinois ACLU for
defending the right of the Nazis to speak. I can ask
Colleen Connell (the Exec Dir of the Ill ACLU, anda
friend) for your capitivating quote. I am
andie nachgeborenen wrote:
> the ACLU and Amnbesty doesn't find that it's a
> loser for fundraising purposes.
>
and to complete the circle: this is the same ACLU whose illinois chapter
president was hanging out at a neo-nazi type gathering (captivating
quotes on why the ACLU must truck with the ex
andie nachgeborenen wrote:
Silverstein might bother to learn something about the
law before he starts to mouth off at lawyers who
aren't doing what he thinks they ought. Postconviction
capital defense is noble, but totally gruelling,
emotionally exhausting, and extremely expensive.
Ken knows what
Silverstein might bother to learn something about the
law before he starts to mouth off at lawyers who
aren't doing what he thinks they ought. Postconviction
capital defense is noble, but totally gruelling,
emotionally exhausting, and extremely expensive.
To give you an idea, in a non-capital cas
Jim wrote:
>Now PK attacks only the right -- because there isn't much of a Left left.
This is
a sign of the rightward shift of the middle.
That is exactly it, couldn't have said it better and I am not even an
American. Question I am raising is, what is the response to that.
J.
Marty wrote:
The danger
> comes of course because [Krugman] is not advancing any kind of radical
vision
> of change.
What bloody danger, for heaven's sake ? Who is creating the danger ? When
two million humans die in Iraq because of the total effects of war
destruction and economic chaos in two d
ravi:
> michael moore when asked about his multi-million dollar new york
> apartment responded that his blue-collar ex-neighbours (in clint
> michigan) would be proud and happy for him. perhaps.
On the Left, it used to be said that "nothing is too good for the working class." This
applied to folk
andie nachgeborenen wrote:
> Like I said, he attacked one of the US's most
> effective civil liberties lawyers, who has put real
> hurt on violent hate groups that have (pardon me for
> getting personal here) killed and injured my friends
> and their family, because he's not an ascetic and
> doesn'
Louis Proyect wrote:
> andie nachgeborenen wrote:
>
>>Attacking left liberals has been Cockburn's forte.
>>He's run a long time smear job on Morris Dees of the
>>Southern Poverty Law Center, a man who has done more
>>to put the Klan and the Ayran Nations literally out of
>>business than anyone else
Michael P. wrote me privately stating that he thought Cockburn had
attacked Dees as well. Since I couldn't find anything in the Nation
archives or Lexis-Nexis, I just assumed that Ken Silverstein was the
only critic of Dees. I have just found a Cockburn attack on Dees. It is
a pip!
The Dees Money M
andie nachgeborenen wrote:
Dees doesn't -- but maybe they don't like up to Kenny
Boy's high standards.
Ken's beef with Dees is that the SPLC has accumulated a large fortune
which it hardly spends on anything but doing more direct mail and
adding to the fortune. It refuses to take on capital punish
I didn't get to finish my e-mail. Now it's finished.
> Doug writes:
> >No, he's [PK's] not a radical, or a Marxist, or social
> democrat even. But he
> >doesn't pretend otherwise. ...
>
> Bill writes: >... The fact that "he doesn't
> pretend otherwise" applies equally well to George Bush --- so
Like I said, he attacked one of the US's most
effective civil liberties lawyers, who has put real
hurt on violent hate groups that have (pardon me for
getting personal here) killed and injured my friends
and their family, because he's not an ascetic and
doesn't expect the young ;lawyers whow ork fo
Doug writes:
>No, he's [PK's] not a radical, or a Marxist, or social democrat even. But he
>doesn't pretend otherwise. ...
Bill writes: >... The fact that "he doesn't
pretend otherwise" applies equally well to George Bush --- so what?<
Bush pretended to be a "compassionate conservative" and all t
I think the problem with the Krugman phenomenon is not so much Krugman
but the broader progressive movement. Because Krugman has written
columns critical of the Bush administration he gets raised to the
status of intellectual leader of the progressive movement--by
progresives. Krugman came throug
andie nachgeborenen wrote:
Attacking left liberals has been Cockburn's forte.
He's run a long time smear job on Morris Dees of the
Southern Poverty Law Center, a man who has done more
to put the Klan and the Ayran Nations literally out of
business than anyone else, because Dees doesn't live a
life
> Krugman is not "left-liberal". He is a neo-liberal, appearing in
> sharp distinction to the hard-core right-wingers that dominate public
> policy presently. His critical inquiry is pretty shallow, consisting
> mostly of currently calling Bush and his gang on their blatant
> falsehoods. When Cl
Jurriaan Bendien wrote:
The question that needs to be asked is what we achieve by polemically
writing off Krugman and calling him nasty names. Krugman is a very learned
left-liberal economist capable of very good critical inquiry into the US
economy and suggesting positive alternatives. I personall
Attacking left liberals has been Cockburn's forte.
He's run a long time smear job on Morris Dees of the
Southern Poverty Law Center, a man who has done more
to put the Klan and the Ayran Nations literally out of
business than anyone else, because Dees doesn't live a
life of ascetic poverty, unlike,
On Friday, October 31, 2003 at 10:33:27 (-0500) Doug Henwood writes:
>Krugman is very good at what he does. He's a sharp polemicist, writes
>very clearly about economics, and annoys the hell out of the right.
All true, for which he should be (and is, by me at least) applauded.
>No, he's not a rad
Krugman is very good at what he does. He's a sharp polemicist, writes
very clearly about economics, and annoys the hell out of the right.
No, he's not a radical, or a Marxist, or social democrat even. But he
doesn't pretend otherwise. He's kind of like Anthony Lewis, only he
writes better. I don't
I fully agree with the following view about Krugman and what to expect
from him, politically and otherwise.
Ahmet Tonak
>
> Krugman is not "left-liberal". He is a neo-liberal, appearing in
> sharp distinction to the hard-core right-wingers that dominate public
> policy presently. His critical i
On Friday, October 31, 2003 at 04:07:09 (+0100) Jurriaan Bendien writes:
>Alexander Cockburn, whom I traditionally respect and admire, now writes:
>
>"Krugman is a press agent, a busker, for Clintonomics. For him as for so
>many others on the liberal side, the world only went bad in January, 2001.
Alexander Cockburn, whom I traditionally respect and admire, now writes:
"Krugman is a press agent, a busker, for Clintonomics. For him as for so
many others on the liberal side, the world only went bad in January, 2001.
If a Democrat, pretty much any Democrat conventional enough to win Wall
Stree
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