Re: eq_or_diff versus is_deeply

2008-08-06 Thread Michael G Schwern
Ovid wrote: There's a nasty bug in the latest development version of Test::Differences. By applying a patch which allows this to pass (it currently won't): eq_or_diff { foo => 1 }, { foo => '1' }; It also allows this to pass: eq_or_diff [ { foo => 1 } ], { foo => '1' }; Ow, ow, ow. Thi

Re: Rebuilding the Test::Builder community

2008-08-06 Thread Michael G Schwern
Michael G Schwern wrote: I've chosen Google Code because it does basically everything I want, uses Subversion which we're used to, everything talks to and makes importing the repo easy. Also I can just bother Andy Lester if I can't figure anything out. :) The repository import

Rebuilding the Test::Builder community

2008-08-06 Thread Michael G Schwern
As you may know, TPF funded my grant to rewrite Test::Builder to support the new test library features people have been asking for over the last six or seven years of it's life that it doesn't currently support well. One of the first things I'd like to address is how I've handled the dev commu

Re: TODO Tests

2008-05-17 Thread Michael G Schwern
Aristotle Pagaltzis wrote: As a technique, paying attention to how broken code changes, why does it matter that broken code breaks differently? What does this information tell you that might fix code? It means there is a known internal dependency on some other part of the code that is not being

Re: TODO Tests

2008-05-13 Thread Michael G Schwern
Smylers wrote: Bram writes: At the moment foo() returns 3. Time passes and code changes. Now there are 3 options: foo() returns 1, this will result in 'unexpected todo test passed' being outputted; foo() returns 3, no special output is produced; foo() returns 4, no special output is produ

Re: Test::Harness 3.10 lots of issues under Devel::Cover 0.64

2008-05-13 Thread Michael G Schwern
These appear to all being due to the fact that Test::Harness does some very specific tests of @INC and the environment which Devel::Cover changes. It's not Devel::Cover's fault. The below appear to be because Devel::Cover inserts its own blib into @INC and the tests aren't wired to deal with

Re: Munging output when running warning tests

2008-04-28 Thread Michael G Schwern
nadim khemir wrote: I have had a problems with output when running tests, this happends, IE, when perl output a warning. warning_like { something() ; } qr'Use of uninitialized value in substitution iterator' ; I get the warning on the terminal which is boring when one

Re: Test::Most::EXIT()

2008-04-23 Thread Michael G Schwern
Ovid wrote: I'd like advice on how best to implement this. Currently, because so many module authors thoughtfully break $SIG{__DIE__}, I routinely find that things like this break: ok $foo or die; # sometimes still exits with zero # or simply doesn't exit Is it possibl

Re: [tap-l] User Supplied Ontologies

2008-04-19 Thread Michael G Schwern
Chris Dolan wrote: I'm not on the tap-l list (why is this cross-posted to perl-qa???) We're trying to move discussion of TAP to a broader, non-perl audience, thus the non-perl TAP mailing list. Since most TAP discussion has been on perl-qa, and since many of the people interested in TAP are

Re: [tap-l] User Supplied YAML Diagnostic Keys: Descriptive Version

2008-04-19 Thread Michael G Schwern
David E. Wheeler wrote: On Apr 18, 2008, at 10:50, chromatic wrote: My argument was complex: solve the real problem or don't solve it. The in between position is silly and won't make anyone happy. (However, the first person to suggest RDF triples gets a lecture from *all* parties.) Yes. T

Devel::Cover vs MakeMaker

2008-04-18 Thread Michael G Schwern
I'd like to know if anyone has a way to make Devel::Cover work properly with the MakeMaker tests. Currently I get bizarre results from cover -test (see below) where it thinks there's no lines in the modules. This is probably the result of MakeMaker running so many perl subprocesses. I'd imagi

Re: [tap-l] User Supplied YAML Diagnostic Keys: Descriptive Version

2008-04-17 Thread Michael G Schwern
chromatic wrote: If TAP v15 adds a new reserved key, anyone who deliberately upgrades may need to modify both the producer and consumer to deal with the collision, if that person even cares. I don't understand. There can be no collision. Official TAP keys all start with a lower case letter.

Re: [tap-l] User Supplied YAML Diagnostic Keys: Descriptive Version

2008-04-17 Thread Michael G Schwern
chromatic wrote: On Thursday 17 April 2008 19:10:21 Michael G Schwern wrote: As for why it'll work with TAP, with a few exceptions (exit_status, or whatever we decide to call it, is currently the only one), diagnostic keys do not effect test parsing. It's not a show stopper. A

Re: [tap-l] User Supplied YAML Diagnostic Keys: Descriptive Version

2008-04-17 Thread Michael G Schwern
Executive summary: User key collision is not a show stopper. chromatic wrote: On Thursday 17 April 2008 17:56:25 Michael G Schwern wrote: We're working around the same issue Perl 5 is having adding new keywords. In Perl 5, since keywords and user-defined subroutines share the same

Re: [tap-l] User Supplied YAML Diagnostic Keys: Descriptive Version

2008-04-17 Thread Michael G Schwern
chromatic wrote: On Thursday 17 April 2008 16:17:48 Michael G Schwern wrote: chromatic wrote: We'd like folks to be able to add their own keys as they need without first wondering whether it might be useful for others or worrying if we might add a key of the same name, but diff

Re: [tap-l] User Supplied YAML Diagnostic Keys: Descriptive Version

2008-04-17 Thread Michael G Schwern
chromatic wrote: We'd like folks to be able to add their own keys as they need without first wondering whether it might be useful for others or worrying if we might add a key of the same name, but different functionality, later. Thus the separation of local from official keys. This part I thin

Re: [tap-l] User Supplied YAML Diagnostic Keys: Descriptive Version

2008-04-17 Thread Michael G Schwern
chromatic wrote: On Wednesday 16 April 2008 22:57:21 David E. Wheeler wrote: In principal I completely agree with you, chromatic (that is, I agree with the principal you espouse here; my agreement is not purely theoretical ;-)). But how does that work in practice? Specifically with regard to YA

Re: Presentation on Perl testing to Madison.pm

2008-04-17 Thread Michael G Schwern
Chris Dolan wrote: Interesting reactions: * People were appalled that Test::Class invokes methods in alphabetic order instead of lexical order It seems odd to me that people would be so concerned about the order of execution, given the methods should be able to be executed in any order. Any

Re: [tap-l] User Supplied YAML Diagnostic Keys: Descriptive Version

2008-04-13 Thread Michael G Schwern
chromatic wrote: On Sunday 13 April 2008 10:41:04 Michael G Schwern wrote: Remember, the producer and the displayer of the non-reserved keys are both under local user control. They choose the custom keys and they choose what they need and can handle. That sort of eliminates the upgrading

Re: [tap-l] User Supplied YAML Diagnostic Keys: Descriptive Version

2008-04-13 Thread Michael G Schwern
David E. Wheeler wrote: On Apr 13, 2008, at 10:41, Michael G Schwern wrote: Two possible solutions: A) Just reserve ASCII [a-z]. This is very easy to check for but I'm worried it's carving out too small a space. Why would it be too small? I mean, that's a *lot* of words y

Re: [tap-l] User Supplied YAML Diagnostic Keys: Descriptive Version

2008-04-13 Thread Michael G Schwern
Ovid wrote: --- Steffen Schwigon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: And we are talking about the diagnostics part, which is primarily for the user, so the rules are reversed there. There are two goals we want: 1. Make it as human-readable as possible. 2. Maximize flexibility. As for human-readable

User Supplied YAML Diagnostic Keys: Descriptive Version

2008-04-11 Thread Michael G Schwern
Here's the descriptive way to specify how the diagnostic keys work. 1) We reserve every key which begins with a lower case letter 2) We say nothing about anything else 3) All keys are optional That's it. Remember, the only reason we're saying anything about the keys is because we want to avo

Descriptive vs Proscriptive

2008-04-11 Thread Michael G Schwern
[For folks who aren't aware, we just had an intense three day hackathon in Oslo during which about a dozen of us tried to hash out new TAP extensions and write some sort of well formed spec. We got a lot done, but didn't have quite the clean resolution I was hoping for. Afterwards I had a number

Re: User Supplied YAML Diagnostic Keys

2008-04-11 Thread Michael G Schwern
chromatic wrote: However, trying to design in sufficient flexibility that the toolset never needs to be upgraded despite everyone everywhere throwing in new key/value pairs willy-nilly misses, I think, one very important point: All* of the TAP I've ever seen has been transient data generated

Re: User Supplied YAML Diagnostic Keys

2008-04-11 Thread Michael G Schwern
chromatic wrote: These are *generated* files. Are you in the practice of checking in generated files -- and not just files generated deliberately as part of a multi-stage compilation or deployment process, but files generated as a temporary byproduct of asking the question "Does the as it exis

Send TAP discussions to the TAP list.

2008-04-11 Thread Michael G Schwern
Note to TAP folks on perl-qa, please post TAP related stuff to the TAP mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Remember, we're supposed to be encouraging cross-language discussion. It's ok to CC perl-qa but please make this the primary discussion list for TAP. -- I am somewhat preoccupied telling the

More topics for the hackathon

2008-03-31 Thread Michael G Schwern
Eric brining up TAP meta information made me think of some more hackathon topics. Finish and implement the TAP meta information proposals. Everybody wants them. http://perl-qa.hexten.net/wiki/index.php/Oslo_QA_Hackathon_2008_:_Topics#TAP_Meta_Information Revise the TAP specification, it's out

Re: Friday afternoon in Oslo

2008-03-31 Thread Michael G Schwern
David Golden wrote: I'll be getting into Oslo Friday mid-morning. Assuming no mishaps finding the hotel, I'll be up for touring around Oslo on Friday afternoon. If anyone from the hackathon has similar plans and is interested in meeting up, please email and let me know. (And if any locals want

Re: TAP has no exit code

2008-03-31 Thread Michael G Schwern
Eric Wilhelm wrote: # from Michael G Schwern # on Sunday 30 March 2008 23:35: There is a TAP proposal to add meta information such as the exit codes. http://testanything.org/wiki/index.php/TAP_meta_information Yay. Can we put 'hostname' in there too? You can put whatever you wan

Re: An alternate view on deferred plans

2008-03-30 Thread Michael G Schwern
Eric Wilhelm wrote: What it protects you from is dying half-way through the tests without the harness noticing... Death is noted by both Test::More and Test::Harness and has been for a long time The only way you can abort the test halfway through using no_plan and get a success is with an e

Re: TAP has no exit code

2008-03-30 Thread Michael G Schwern
Eric Wilhelm wrote: # from Aristotle Pagaltzis # on Sunday 30 March 2008 23:14: Except that the test program might be running at the other end of an HTTP connection. Or at the other end of a serial port. Or the harness might be parsing an archived TAP stream. Or a TAP archive generated offline

Re: An alternate view on deferred plans

2008-03-30 Thread Michael G Schwern
Aristotle Pagaltzis wrote: Note that it doesn’t quite protect you from running too few tests either. You may botch some conditional in your test program and end up skipping tests silently, in which case you will still reach the `all_done()` line, and it’ll look as if all was fine. The typical a

Re: An alternate view on deferred plans

2008-03-29 Thread Michael G Schwern
Buddy Burden wrote: Not criticizing, not claiming my method is better, just looking for any reasons why this wouldn't work. And, JIC there's some agreement that it _would_ work, I've already put together a patch for Test::Most that does it. That is, at the top of your script, you put this:

MySQL + TAP == MyTAP

2008-03-29 Thread Michael G Schwern
Stumbled across this while finding an alternative to libtap for testing C (it has some sort of issue linking with this hairy project I'm working on). Apparently MySQL wrote their own TAP library for C. From http://dev.mysql.com/doc/mysqltest/en/unit-test.html The unit-testing facility is based

Re: Is "FIT" fit for purpose?

2008-03-28 Thread Michael G Schwern
Ok, let's clear this all up. FIT is not about expressing business rules. FIT is a tool which allows the customer to add test cases in a way they're comfortable with. A programmer still has to write the logic behind those tests (called a Fixture), but it allows a customer to easily add more da

Test::Builder 2 in Oslo

2008-03-28 Thread Michael G Schwern
I put Test::Builder 2 up as a topic for the Oslo hackathon. http://perl-qa.hexten.net/wiki/index.php/Oslo_QA_Hackathon_2008_:_Topics#Test::Builder_2 -- E: "Would you want to maintain a 5000 line Perl program?" d: "Why would you write a 5000 line program?"

Re: Is "FIT" fit for purpose?

2008-03-28 Thread Michael G Schwern
Eric Wilhelm wrote: On Thursday 27 March 2008 12:42:13 Eric Wilhelm wrote: What do you need to test that your users need to drive? Business rules. So, what is a good example of such a business rule? I posit that payroll does not count because the user could more concisely write the rule in

Re: Is "FIT" fit for purpose?

2008-03-27 Thread Michael G Schwern
Ovid wrote: Has anyone here ever succesfully used FIT testing? I was at one of the first presentations of FITness a long time ago, but the example Ward Cunningham gave was of a calculator. I thought the idea was neat, but how would I implement it? When you say "implement it" do you mean the m

Server and database testing

2008-03-26 Thread Michael G Schwern
I have some work to write tests for a server that talks to a database. This means creating a database and firing up a server for testing purposes, and then dropping the database and shutting down the server at the end. This also means making sure that multiple instances of the test can run on

Re: model-based testing

2008-03-26 Thread Michael G Schwern
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi *, are there any Perl modules for model-based testing [1]? Are there any talks about model-based testing with Perl? Cheers, Renee [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model-based_testing Never heard of it. It smells a little bit like a further extension of FIT testi

Re: Hackathon logistics

2008-03-26 Thread Michael G Schwern
David Golden wrote: * Do we have one? Andy, can we use hex-ten? * A checkin notify list should also be ready. Whether it's hex-ten or something else, we'll need to make sure we all have access. I don't know that I ever got a commit bit for hex-ten. (At least, ohloh.net doesn't show me as a

Re: My Perl QA Hackathon Wishlist

2008-03-25 Thread Michael G Schwern
Gergely Brautigam wrote: One last question then I swear I will shut up :) Why use perl for testing? Of course all others languages are used for testing this > and that.. What excels perl to be used for testing. Obviusly it has powerfull regex, > and datahandling capabilities... But besides tha

Hackathon logistics

2008-03-25 Thread Michael G Schwern
A few logistical items that I'd like to make sure are being taken care of for the hackathon. The idea is to work this out now to maximize our in-site hacking time. I don't know what the status of this is, but here's what I can think of off the top of my head. *) Access for wirelessless lap

Patent for "Software Package Verification" nothing to worry about

2008-03-20 Thread Michael G Schwern
About two years ago several people came upon this patent granted to Sun, "EP1170667 - Software Package Verification" http://gauss.ffii.org/PatentView/EP1170667 Its US equivalent is 7080357 http://www.google.com/patents?vid=USPAT7080357 There was some concern this might conflict with TAP and Tes

Re: Why should package declaration match filename?

2008-03-15 Thread Michael G Schwern
David Cantrell wrote: "It's what everyone else does" *is* the principle of least surprise. That's getting the cause and effect backwards. There's lots of fucked up interfaces and user behaviors out there, just dig into Windows Linux GUI apps for examples, and some of them exhibit astonishing

Re: Why should package declaration match filename?

2008-03-14 Thread Michael G Schwern
Dave Rolsky wrote: There's a lot of value in following the existing best practices of the Perl community as a whole. For one thing, it means you can hire people with "Perl experience" and they can bring that experience to bear on your application. If you insist on reinventing every wheel, you

Re: Why should package declaration match filename?

2008-03-14 Thread Michael G Schwern
Matisse Enzer wrote: I'm discussing some potential refactorings at $work at wanted to give an articulate explanation of the benefits of having package declarations match file names, so that: # file is Foo/bar.pm package Foo::Bar; That was probably a typo, but I hope you mean Foo/Bar.pm

Re: ExtUtils::FakeMaker 0.001 uploaded

2008-03-13 Thread Michael G Schwern
Ricardo SIGNES wrote: That's all! I hope someone else finds it useful. FWIW we were just talking about the issue of generating modules from static files (rather than the other way around like we do now) at PDX.pm. -- Look at me talking when there's science to do. When I look out there it m

Re: [tap-l] SKIP_ALL tests should not get hidden

2008-03-10 Thread Michael G Schwern
Andy Armstrong wrote: On 20 Nov 2007, at 23:39, Michael G Schwern wrote: Do we like that? Test::Harness 2 put it on it's own line mostly to avoid wrapping off the right side of the screen. I still lean in that direction. Hmm. I'm kind of hooked on the new behaviour now. It puts

Re: TAP::Harness / CPAN problem

2008-03-08 Thread Michael G Schwern
Chris Dolan wrote: On Mar 8, 2008, at 11:59 AM, Andy Armstrong wrote: On 8 Mar 2008, at 17:54, Chris Dolan wrote: Perl 5.8.6 (Apple's dist for OSX 10.4) Test::Harness 3.10 TAP::Harness 0.54 TAP::Parser 0.54 CPAN 1.9205 CPANPLUS 0.82 Yeah, you have a mixture of Test::Harness and

IEEE Testing Conference in Lillehammer

2008-03-03 Thread Michael G Schwern
The First International Conference on Software Testing, Verification and Validation is happening in Lillehammer, Norway April 9 - 11. The conference proper is April 10th and 11th, just after Go Open and the Oslo QA Hackathon. I think this is a good chance for Perl QA to crash the IEEE and get

Re: Test-Simple 0.77 fixage

2008-03-03 Thread Michael G Schwern
chromatic wrote: On Monday 03 March 2008 11:20:54 Michael G Schwern wrote: "Fixage" is when software fixes a bug and reveals bugs in dependent software. Test-Simple 0.77 (which includes Test::More) fixed a long standing bug by removing the annoying global $SIG{__DIE__} handler to

Re: More information in NAs (was Re: CPANTesters considered harmful)

2008-03-03 Thread Michael G Schwern
David Golden wrote: On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 2:04 PM, Michael G Schwern <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > * parsing for error messages from code like "use 5.008" or from "our" > being used in $VERSION strings prior to 5.005 It's that last one that concerns me

Test-Simple 0.77 fixage

2008-03-03 Thread Michael G Schwern
I'm coining a new term, "fixage", like "breakage". "Fixage" is when software fixes a bug and reveals bugs in dependent software. Test-Simple 0.77 (which includes Test::More) fixed a long standing bug by removing the annoying global $SIG{__DIE__} handler to trap test death. It would swallow th

Re: More information in NAs (was Re: CPANTesters considered harmful)

2008-03-03 Thread Michael G Schwern
David Golden wrote: On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 11:45 AM, Michael G Schwern <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: It would be nice if NA's included the reason for it being an NA, that being the full Makefile/Build.PL output just like if it failed. I don't see any harm in that and it wou

Re: CPANTesters considered harmful

2008-03-03 Thread Michael G Schwern
Nicholas Clark wrote: On Mon, Mar 03, 2008 at 02:19:23PM +, Smylers wrote: demerphq writes: It turned out the problem is that when the tests are root it seems to be not possible to create a directory that is not writeable by root. I think that can be reduced to: It isn't possible to creat

More information in NAs (was Re: CPANTesters considered harmful)

2008-03-03 Thread Michael G Schwern
demerphq wrote: On 03/03/2008, David Golden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 6:57 AM, demerphq <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > IMO if an NA result comes in without email contact details and without > an explanation for the NA then the result should not be aggregated > against

Re: Is there even a C compiler?

2008-02-26 Thread Michael G Schwern
Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes wrote: On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 03:59:37PM -0800, Michael G Schwern wrote: MakeMaker uses ExtUtils::CBuilder->have_compiler() in it's tests. It's worked well with no complaints. It's an additional testing dependency, but it's a useful one

Re: Is there even a C compiler?

2008-02-25 Thread Michael G Schwern
Andy Armstrong wrote: Is there a generally approved way for an XS module to test for the existence of a C compiler before attempting to build? MakeMaker uses ExtUtils::CBuilder->have_compiler() in it's tests. It's worked well with no complaints. It's an additional testing dependency, but it'

Re: Wide character support for Test::More

2008-02-24 Thread Michael G Schwern
Aristotle Pagaltzis wrote: use 5.008; use strict; use warnings; use open ':std', ':locale'; use Test::More tests => 1; my $uni = "\x{11e}"; ok( $uni eq $uni, "Testing $uni" ); __END__ 1..1 Wide character in print at lib/Test/Builder.pm line 1252. ^^ after the above patch, gone The

Wide character support for Test::More

2008-02-23 Thread Michael G Schwern
I just merged together a number of tickets having to do with Test::More not liking wide characters. use 5.008; use strict; use warnings; use Test::More tests => 1; my $uni = "\x{11e}"; ok( $uni eq $uni, "Testing $uni" ); __END__ 1..1 Wide character in print at lib/Test/Builder.pm line 1252. o

Re: New assertions in Ruby

2008-02-13 Thread Michael G Schwern
Adrian Howard wrote: which isn't _too_ shabby, but doesn't help much with things like: ok_if { Foo->new->answer == 42 }; or ok_if { $Some_dynamic_var == 42 }; So I don't really think it's worth pursuing. Well, if we follow the logic of the assert2 author, you're just being SLOPPY u

Re: Diagnostics

2008-02-12 Thread Michael G Schwern
David Landgren wrote: I wish you'd s/Got/Actual/ or Received. Got must die. Why's that? -- Hating the web since 1994.

Re: New assertions in Ruby

2008-02-12 Thread Michael G Schwern
chromatic wrote: On Tuesday 12 February 2008 10:55:21 chromatic wrote: On Tuesday 12 February 2008 10:06:14 Eric Wilhelm wrote: How will you print the assertion code without a source filter? "Show Source on Exception" is fairly easy: http://www.oreillynet.com/onlamp/blog/2007/10/adding_show_

Re: expanding the cpan script, and Module

2008-02-11 Thread Michael G Schwern
Andrew Hampe wrote: The Basic CPAN concern: --bail_on_fail flag (2008.02.10 ) Problem description: when a cpan session is looking for more than one distribution/module there needs to be a way to 'flag' that the session must fail and stop if there is an error loading any distribution,

Re: #50432: Oslo Perl QA Hackaton Grant Application

2008-02-01 Thread Michael G Schwern
Ovid wrote: Crap. Can we just forget I sent that to Perl QA instead of the Grant Committee? /me puts on his sunglasses. /me pulls out a black device. Now if everyone on perl-qa will please look this way... *FLASH!* -- You are wicked and wrong to have broken inside and peeked at the impleme

Re: is_deeply and qr// content on 5.11

2008-01-18 Thread Michael G Schwern
Ian Malpass wrote: I got a failure message from CPAN testers for Pod::Extract::URI for 5.11.0 patch 33001 on Linux 2.6.22-3-amd64 (x86_64-linux-thread-multi-ld)[0] The failures were where I was testing to see if an arrayref of qr// patterns was the array I was expecting. is_deeply() has heret

Re: BAIL_OUT and parallel tests

2008-01-17 Thread Michael G Schwern
Ovid wrote: What should parallel tests do if a BAIL_OUT is encountered? I think all parallel tests currently running should be allowed to finish so they can attempt to cleanup, but no more tests should be started. Does this sound reasonable? It's not entirely clear if bail out means "kill the

Re: A New Test::Builder

2008-01-15 Thread Michael G Schwern
Ovid wrote: Test::Harness used to be very limited. We couldn't do a lot with it, but when we started testing, most of us didn't do a lot with it. As we understood more about testing, we understood better many things we wanted. As a result, Schwern posted a great plan for rewriting Test::Harnes

Re: What should it's name be?

2008-01-14 Thread Michael G Schwern
Gabor Szabo wrote: > I know I am a bit late to the party but what about Test::Anything ? Rapidly drifting towards Test::Anything::Protocol. -- But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake. -- Jonathan Coulton, "Still Alive"

Re: The spewing problem.

2008-01-13 Thread Michael G Schwern
Adam Kennedy wrote: > This shouldn't be any more complicated than " -g" (where g in my case > stands for "goat" as in "feinting goat") Ok, I'll bite. Why a goat and why is it feinting? -- ...they shared one last kiss that left a bitter yet sweet taste in her mouth--kind of like throwing up aft

Re: The spewing problem.

2008-01-13 Thread Michael G Schwern
Michael Peters wrote: > Michael G Schwern wrote: > >> Ok, why do you want to stop it as fast as possible when a failure occurs? > > I have a 45 minute test suite and I want to work on the first failure as soon > as > possible. I also have multiple desktops and am doing

Re: The spewing problem.

2008-01-13 Thread Michael G Schwern
Matisse Enzer wrote: > > On Jan 12, 2008, at 10:24 PM, Michael G Schwern wrote: > >> Matisse Enzer wrote: >>> I just want to be able to run a test suite with a switch that makes the >>> entire test run stop after the first failure is reported. >> >>

Re: The spewing problem.

2008-01-12 Thread Michael G Schwern
Matisse Enzer wrote: > I just want to be able to run a test suite with a switch that makes the > entire test run stop after the first failure is reported. Ok, it's nice to want things, but why do you want it? -- 100. Claymore mines are not filled with yummy candy, and it is wrong to tell n

Re: Test::Builder statistics

2008-01-12 Thread Michael G Schwern
Ovid wrote: > My first attempt at determining the most popular testing modules left > out Test.pm. Whoops! I've fixed that. > > Out of almost 60,000 test programs, it turns out Test.pm is used 8,937 > times. Now that I have a file which lists how many times each test > module is used, I can sta

The spewing problem.

2008-01-12 Thread Michael G Schwern
Paul Johnson wrote: > This is something that I too have asked for in the past. I've even > hacked up my own stuff to do it, though obviously not as elegantly as > you or Geoff. Here's my use case. > > I have a bunch of tests that generally pass. I hack something > fundamental and run my tests.

Re: Preserving diagnostics when dieing on test failure

2008-01-12 Thread Michael G Schwern
Ovid wrote: > So we can preserve diagnostics, but we need help in cleaning up those > damned line numbers. Hook::LexWrap didn't have the magic I thought it > would. ok() is now inside a wrapper so you're one level further down then it thinks. Just add one to $Level and then take it back off agai

Re: Dude, where's my diagnostics? (Re: Halting on first test failure)

2008-01-12 Thread Michael G Schwern
Aristotle Pagaltzis wrote: > * Michael G Schwern <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2008-01-12 12:00]: >> Ovid wrote: >>> I'll go fix that diagnostic thing now. Unfortunately, I >>> think I'll have to violate encapsulation :( >> If you know how to fix it le

Re: Dude, where's my diagnostics? (Re: Halting on first test failure)

2008-01-12 Thread Michael G Schwern
Ovid wrote: > --- Michael G Schwern <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> The whole idea of halting on first failure was introduced to me by >> some XUnit >> folks ... As any field scientist knows, there's no such thing as >> uncontaminated data. > >

Re: Dude, where's my diagnostics? (Re: Halting on first test failure)

2008-01-12 Thread Michael G Schwern
The whole idea of halting on first failure was introduced to me by some XUnit folks. Their rationale was not to avoid spewing output, they had no such problem since it's all done via a GUI, but that once one failure has happened the failing code might hose the environment and all following results

Re: Dude, where's my diagnostics? (Re: Halting on first test failure)

2008-01-12 Thread Michael G Schwern
Ovid wrote: > I'll go fix that diagnostic thing now. Unfortunately, I think I'll > have to violate encapsulation :( If you know how to fix it let me know, because other than enumerating each testing module you might use and lex-wrapping all the functions they export, I'm not sure how to do it. T

Dude, where's my diagnostics? (Re: Halting on first test failure)

2008-01-11 Thread Michael G Schwern
e PPD; like( $ppd_html, qr{^}m, ' ' ); like( $ppd_html, qr{^\s*Big-Dummy}m,' ' ); like( $ppd_html, qr{^\s*Try "our" hot dog's}m,

Re: Call for Attention: Perl QA Hackathon in Oslo

2008-01-08 Thread Michael G Schwern
Salve J Nilsen wrote: >> Oslo.pm is planning a Perl QA Workshop/Hackathon in Oslo, Saturday >> April 4th to Monday April 7th, 2008. FWIW, if I can get sponsored, I'm going with bells on. > Just to make things more interesting, IEEE will have a conference on > software testing nearby (in Lilleham

Re: Fixed Test::Builders "regexp" detection code.

2008-01-06 Thread Michael G Schwern
demerphq wrote: > Just a heads up that I patched the core version of Test::Builder to > use more reliable and robust methods for detecting regexps in test > cases. This makes them robust to changes in the internals and also > prevents Test::Builder from getting confused if someone uses blessed > qr

Re: Dev version numbers, warnings, XS and MakeMaker dont play nicely together.

2008-01-06 Thread Michael G Schwern
demerphq wrote: > So we are told the way to mark a module as development is to use an > underbar in the version number: > > $VERSION= "1.23_01"; > > but this will produce warnings if you assert a required version > number, as the version isn't numeric. We talked about this recently on [EMAIL PRO

Re: Testing print failures

2008-01-06 Thread Michael G Schwern
nadim khemir wrote: > As for the layers of neurosis, the only anxiety is the one created by your > own > delusions. I see only a test like an other. If we had infinite time and attention, yes. But we don't. And time spent checking the return value of print and writing a complicated test for if

Re: Testing print failures

2008-01-05 Thread Michael G Schwern
nadim khemir wrote: > print 'hi' or carp q{can't print!} ; I'm not even going to wade into the layers of neurosis demonstrated in this post, but if you want to throw an error use croak(). -- ...they shared one last kiss that left a bitter yet sweet taste in her mouth--kind of like throwing up a

Re: demining

2008-01-03 Thread Michael G Schwern
Eric Wilhelm wrote: > # from Aristotle Pagaltzis > # on Wednesday 02 January 2008 16:47: > >>> looking for (and diffusing) mines >> That sounds like a novel approach! Or do you mean “defusing”? :-) > > Yeah :-D Diffuse is probably what they do when you find them the less > careful way! > > I g

Re: MakeMaker warning

2007-12-29 Thread Michael G Schwern
Gabor Szabo wrote: > Is there a place with definition of what a VERSION value can be ? Anything which compares sanely as a number plus the X.YY_ZZ alpha convention (which MM converts to a number). I guess that's never stated explicitly. I'd welcome a section on $VERSION in ExtUtils::MakeMaker::T

Re: MakeMaker warning

2007-12-26 Thread Michael G Schwern
Gabor Szabo wrote: > might be slightly unrelated to QAsorry In the future, MakeMaker issues go to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > After installing JOSHUA/Net-Telnet-Cisco-1.10.tar.gz > if I run perl Makefile.PL on an unrelated Makefile.PL that > requires 'Net::Telnet::Cisco' => '1.10' > I get a

Re: Auto: Your message 'FAIL IO-AIO-2.51 i386-freebsd-thread-multi 6.2-release' has NOT been received

2007-12-23 Thread Michael G Schwern
Michael G Schwern wrote: > David Golden wrote: >> On Dec 23, 2007 2:37 AM, Michael G Schwern <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> [1] It can be argued that bleadperl testers should probably not email >>> authors, >>> and maybe they aren't I can't

Re: Auto: Your message 'FAIL IO-AIO-2.51 i386-freebsd-thread-multi 6.2-release' has NOT been received

2007-12-23 Thread Michael G Schwern
David Golden wrote: > On Dec 23, 2007 2:37 AM, Michael G Schwern <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> [1] It can be argued that bleadperl testers should probably not email >> authors, >> and maybe they aren't I can't tell from these archives, but at least the wor

Re: Auto: Your message 'FAIL IO-AIO-2.51 i386-freebsd-thread-multi 6.2-release' has NOT been received

2007-12-22 Thread Michael G Schwern
chromatic wrote: > I just went through a sampling of fail reports for my stuff. There was one > legitimate packaging bug, and a couple of legitimate errors due to updates to > Perl. About 35% of the other reports are these. > > I love the "Illegal seek" error message: > > http://www.nnt

Re: Auto: Your message 'FAIL IO-AIO-2.51 i386-freebsd-thread-multi 6.2-release' has NOT been received

2007-12-22 Thread Michael G Schwern
chromatic wrote: > On Saturday 22 December 2007 16:48:29 Michael G Schwern wrote: >> The "I installed to a directory with a space in the path" is an example of >> CPAN Testers working as expected. It found and highlighted an annoying bug >> that the rest of

Re: Auto: Your message 'FAIL IO-AIO-2.51 i386-freebsd-thread-multi 6.2-release' has NOT been received

2007-12-22 Thread Michael G Schwern
Matisse Enzer wrote: > I respectfully suggest that maybe there is another way of looking at it, > where the install process (governed by Makefile.PL/Build.PL) could > possibly be a "test driven installation" process: > >use Test::More tests => 23; >unlike( $^X,qr{\s}, q{'$^X' has no spaces

Re: Auto: Your message 'FAIL IO-AIO-2.51 i386-freebsd-thread-multi 6.2-release' has NOT been received

2007-12-20 Thread Michael G Schwern
Andy Armstrong wrote: > On 21 Dec 2007, at 00:11, Michael G Schwern wrote: >> This could be accomplished silently with some environment variables. >> TAP_PARSER_ARCHIVE_DIR=/path/to/somewhere > > It's called PERL_TEST_HARNESS_DUMP_TAP and it already exists. Well the

Re: Auto: Your message 'FAIL IO-AIO-2.51 i386-freebsd-thread-multi 6.2-release' has NOT been received

2007-12-20 Thread Michael G Schwern
Michael Peters wrote: > David Golden wrote: >> On Dec 20, 2007 1:19 PM, Dave Rolsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> It's generally >>> pretty rare that the failure report includes enough information for me to >>> do anything about it, so without an engaged party on the other end, it >>> really is ju

Re: Auto: Your message 'FAIL IO-AIO-2.51 i386-freebsd-thread-multi 6.2-release' has NOT been received

2007-12-19 Thread Michael G Schwern
Andy Armstrong wrote: > On 19 Dec 2007, at 03:13, Michael G Schwern wrote: >> Anyhow, what's clear is there is a problem with IO::AIO. It hasn't been >> addressed properly by the author. While it's frustrating to get a >> constant >> stream of &quo

Re: Fwd: Auto: Your message 'FAIL IO-AIO-2.51 i386-freebsd-thread-multi 6.2-release' has NOT been received

2007-12-18 Thread Michael G Schwern
chromatic wrote: > On Tuesday 18 December 2007 17:27:24 Andy Armstrong wrote: > >> Someone (MLEHMANN) doesn't like smoking... That was a test report >> generated by CPAN::Reporter. >> >> It hadn't previously occurred to me that test reports might cause >> offence... > > Didn't you get a whole sle

Re: [ANNOUNCE] TAP::Harness::Archive 0.03

2007-12-16 Thread Michael G Schwern
nadim khemir wrote: > On Saturday 15 December 2007 20.53.30 Michael Peters wrote: >> The uploaded file >> >> TAP-Harness-Archive-0.03.tar.gz >> ... > > Nice. Now, what do we do with it? You RTFM. http://search.cpan.org/perldoc/TAP::Harness::Archive -- If at first you don't succeed--you fa

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