lopment, even at the possible cost of instability in
the code and user-base burnout if any serious bug proved intractable." I
continue to be disappointed at how contributing code to PostgreSQL is
far more likely to come with a dose of argument and frustration rather
than reward, and this d
http://projects.2ndquadrant.it/sites/default/files/pgbench-intro.pdf on
pages 36,37.
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To make chang
k into
needing a timeout to ensure forward progress of standby replay.
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To make changes to yo
with their own reliability and speed requirements to
balance.
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To make changes to your subscript
on too, to make it more obvious that's the
only situation this aspect of HS is aimed at and suitable for.
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think about in terms of human time.
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x27;t understand why you're pushing at this point
for its removal. You could be encouraging testing instead, which I
believe is needed to know exactly what the right thing to do in 9.1 is.
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y more difficult to use in the field than any of the
workarounds that cope with the known max_standby_delay issues.
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ms for user apps too. Any app that gauges how long ago something
happened by comparing a database timestamp with now() is going to give
misleading results for example, and I know I see those all the time.
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g...@2
d onto implementation trivia, but I didn't think the difference
between what you expected and what's actually committed already was
properly addressed before doing that.
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r, 5
disks instead of 12) and it's running the same CentOS version. If the
problems really universal I should see it here too.
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27;t as
concerning to me because we at least know for sure he's on-board with
pushing toward the conversion.
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therefore included in the git conversion already
being published) is much easier to work with and submit patches
against. I'm already dumping git clones of the PG repo on every system
I do serious work on. If each of those were then capable of generating
pg_migrator patches I could subm
Now, if the argument is
from the perspective of "this adds performance/reliability issues that
weren't there before", and those go away if the feature is disabled by
default, that's a respectable and indisputable reason to do so.
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#x27;t want to burden the first sync rep version with
this requirement. Let's wait until the current scope is cleared before
trying to move the goalposts for the people working on that.
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ing_Replication#Synchronization_capability
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quot;
just to rule that out.
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here's an underlying scalablity issue in there. Nobody
with that right hardware has put it under the light of a profiler yet as
far as I know.
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e I've got a full handle on it.
Thanks for reminding me about this counter example, it slipped by in
that broader thread before and I didn't try doing that myself until
today, to see that you're onto something there.
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ed memory well".
Note that there's no discussion of the why behind this is in the commit
you just did, just the description of what happens. The reasons why are
left undefined, which I feel is appropriate given we really don't know
for sure. Still waiting for somebody to let
s/2008-12/msg3.php that
Magnus concurred with last time I tried to dig for more info about this
specific subject. And the last time I remember this caming up it was
with someone who suggested 8MB (!) worked best on their Windows system:
http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-general/2
anyone will accidentally
consider official a page labeled "Simon's Work in Progress: Prioritised
Todo" that's attached to User:Simon, that nothing links to, and that
doesn't show up on the first set of results if you search for "todo" either.
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confusing name. Sorry about propagating my own confusion to others.
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To make changes to your subs
MB of RAM.
Larger settings for shared_buffers usually require a corresponding
increase in checkpoint_segments, in order to spread out writing large
quantities of changed or new data in the cache over a longer period of time.
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ly ranked
#1--by a large margin--on the UserVoice feature request survey that
Peter kicked off.
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or setup trivia. And Robert's
comments about the details in that area it's easy to forget about hit
the mark too.
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ully integrated
version. You certainly can start working on (3) without a fully fleshed
out implementation of (2), I don't know that it makes sense to work on
before (1) though.
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velopment subsets here compared to yourself. I don't
think it's really important whether anyone agrees with me or not about
exactly the value of a full table lock implementation. The main thing
I'm concerned about is just that it's noted as a known risky part, one
that co
do this for real at all. I'm not a big fan of
dumping work into projects when you can see exactly how it's going to
fail before you even get started. As I see if, if you know where it's
going to fall down, you don't need to build a prototype as an exercise
to show you how to
being able to claim PostgreSQL now has this feature, that's also not
going to go well. If the scope is "add initial grammar and rewriting
moving toward a future materialized view feature", which the underlying
implementation noted as a stub prototype, that might work out OK. Th
't on your
plan yet. There is a precedent for taking this approach. After getting
stalled trying to add the entirety of easy partitioning to PostgreSQL,
the current scope has been scaled back to just trying to get the syntax
and on-disk structure right, then finish off the impleme
ecause it's harder than it
appears. This is certainly the case with improving the partitioning
support that's built in to the database.
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o much junk in one big
string there. You couldn't make the above check much simpler, which
makes it hard to justify any alternative approach to grab this data.
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test I run, regardless of where the binaries come from
or how I thought they were built, starts like this:
postgres=# show debug_assertions;
debug_assertions
--
off
(1 row)
It's a really good habit to get into, or even enforce in your testing
script if practical.
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it. I've given up on expecting
ad-hoc pgbench testing done without an extremely clear methodology to
produce a lot of data, it's tough to get useful results out of that
without a clear plan to follow for finding useful data points.
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its. (Not because of you, of course--my bigger
problem are people who just can't share their plans with the lists for
privacy or security reasons)
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think it's reasonable
to ask whether allowing it to be turned off is the right thing just from
the pragmatic basis that it provides a, ahem, backup plan in case
there's unexpected difficulty with it in the field.
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at has been done since then) at
http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=673646
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, but the later values set for the parameters
added to the end would win and be the active ones.
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To
e wait timeouts, that sort of thing.
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Takahiro Itagaki wrote:
Greg Smith wrote:
Attached is an updated version that I think is ready to commit. Only
changes are docs--I rewrote those to improve the wording some.
Thanks for the correction. Applied.
By the way: the pgbench.sgml that you committed looks like it
rning into a vote: -1 from me for any work on this until
http://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/PostgreSQL_9.0_Open_Items is cleared.
It boggles my mind that anyone could have a different prioritization
right now.
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t;has what we can advertise as
built-in replication" as a disappointing but acceptable substitute in
lieu of that. (rolls eyes) I think it will fit nicely into the "9.1
adds the polish" theme already gathering around the replication features
being postponed to the next release.
t's run as, then use
something like:
mv pgbench_log.${PID} pgbench.log
To convert to a stable filename for later processing. Now you just use
something like this instead:
cat pgbench_log.${PID}* > pgbench.log
rm -f pgbench_log.${PID}*
And that works fine.
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hat this is a hard problem to get
right and Tom's suggestion that this might even extend into the proper
threaded version too, I think a log file per worker is the easiest way
out of this.
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at pgbench_log.x | cut -d " " -f 1 | sort | uniq
Should only show the client numbers; here there's some first columns
with much bigger numbers too.
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o the main docs.
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"past
time" to add. It's at
http://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Todo#Point-In-Time_Recovery_.28PITR.29 now.
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ady have made left me with the
optinion that just getting the requirements and preferred implementation
nailed down here is going to take a few rounds of development to work
out to everyone's satisfaction.
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ing to worry about right now. Same reason I
ignored the idea when Joshua Tolley brought it up last month:
http://archives.postgresql.org/message-id/4b69caeb.9513f30a.731a.3...@mx.google.com
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om
If nobody else claims them as something they're working on before, I
suspect I'll then move onto building some of the archiver UI
improvements discussed most recently as part of the "pg_stop_backup does
not complete" thread, despite Heikki having crushed my dreams of a
si
it happened though.
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er of magnitude so than the average feature there), it's
completely feasible somebody will do so for 9.1.
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it's already inside the archive_command logic. If
it just shared that info with the rest of the system instead this would
be trivial to discover.
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I'm happy with it I'll submit a doc patch in the next week or two
with the final result.
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where along the beta timeline.
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oia is going to be happy with the potential downside
of in a HA environment, given that both unbounded staleness and recovery
time are then both possible. The potential of a failed long-running
query is much less risky than either of those.
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it in time for this release, so whether
it's eventually feasible or not doesn't enter into what I'm worried
about right now. In any case, I would prioritize that behind work on
preventing the most common situations that cause cancellations in the
first place, until those
astes some resources
compared to a targeted bloater script.
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To make changes to your subscrip
time of day. The XID export
implementation sidesteps that issue by only making the vacuum delay
increase when queries that require it are running, turning this back
into a standard "what's the best time of day to run my big reports?"
issue that people understand how to cope with
Josh Berkus wrote:
First, from the nature of the arguments, we need to eventually have both
versions of SR: delay-based and xmin-pub. And it would be fantastic if
Greg Smith and Tom Lane could work on xmin-pub to see if we can get it
ready as well.
As I see it, the main technical obstacle
on than mine of exactly how this
is going to play out in the field post-release.
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To make
Greg Stark wrote:
On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 5:28 AM, Greg Smith wrote:
The idea of the workaround is that if you have a single long-running query
to execute, and you want to make sure it doesn't get canceled because of a
vacuum cleanup, you just have it connect back to the master to ke
fujii/postgres.git;a=summary ,
but sadly when I tried to rebase that against the master to separate out
just the parts unique to it the merge conflicts were overwhelming. I
hate getting beaten by merge bitrot even when Git is helping.
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Post
r I'm suggesting could be available via the standby->master xmin
publication.
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To make c
't
then expect that you'll be assigned a reviewer by the CF manager either
until that's corrected. And if time for the CF runs out before you do
that, you're automatically moved to "returned with
feedback"--specifically, "write us a test case".
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d kick off this discussion with noting a clear preference this not
wander into any personal finger-pointing. And I am far too displeased
with the technical situation here to have much of a sense of humor left
about it either.
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y. If I were in charge I just would make it standard
project policy to reject any performance patch without those
characteristics immediately.
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nel is already available in some form. I had though the walsender
on the master was already receiving messages sometimes from the
walreceiver on the standby, but I'm getting the impression from Heikki's
comments that this not the case at all yet.
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ion
PostgreSQL eventually needs to go, but it's going to be an uphill battle
the whole time to get it built. The objections will be that it will add
too much overhead at the lowest levels, where the data needed to support
it is collected at. Once that is cleared, the high-level interface is
easy
Mark Kirkwood wrote:
Greg Smith wrote:
Returned with feedback in October after receiving a lot of review, no
updated version submitted since then:
https://commitfest.postgresql.org/action/patch_view?id=98
Hmm - I would say a bit of review rather than a lot :-)
It looks like you got
Bruce Momjian wrote:
What happened to this patch?
Returned with feedback in October after receiving a lot of review, no
updated version submitted since then:
https://commitfest.postgresql.org/action/patch_view?id=98
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et it, any other setup and you won't.
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along with any
long-running query is a nice bonus, and it's great the design allows for
that possibility. But if that's only possible with risk, heavy
tweaking, and possibly some hacks, I'm not sure that's making the right
trade-offs for everyone.
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just lowering the
operational complexity involved.
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thout better master/standby integration
though, and as pointed out a couple of times here that was considered
and just not followed through on yet. I'm increasingly concerned that
nothing else will really do though.
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that this may not be feasible at all for 9.0 seems like a
more serious concern than I had thought it was going to be.
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bit of time to acquire sometimes.
What I don't think people will see coming is that a routine update on an
unrelated table is going to kill a query they might have been waiting
hours for the result of, just because that update crossed an autovacuum
threshold for the other table and in
commentary about how yours is the only valid viewpoint. Saves me a lot
of trouble replying to your messages, can just ignore them instead if
this is how you're going to act.
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acuum_defer_cleanup_age correctly
in the field in its current form is pretty unreasonable I think. Since
there's no timestamp-based memory of past xid activity, it's difficult
to convert it to that form instead, and I think something in terms of
time is what people would like to
es to the master, and you've just scaled up all the small ones.
Distributed queries with "eventual consistency" on all nodes is where
many of the web app designs are going, and this feature is a reasonable
match for that use case.
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I believe
will feel more natural to some users who may not be well served by any
of the existing tuning possibilities.
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the accidental
tab/space errors that always manage to sneak into non-trivial work, if I
could automate the whole thing as a pass to do just before generating a
final diff to submit.
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ommentary suggesting it must be ignored because
it's too late to do anything about it. I hope everyone appreciates
wandering that way will not help make PostgreSQL 9.0 a better release.
This issue is so easy to encounter, and looks so bad when it happens,
that I feel it could
und this and an
immediate one was required. Certainly possible that happened for an as
yet unknown reason--I've seen plenty of situations where fast shutdown
didn't work--but I haven't been able to replicate it.
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hung there for a while sometimes, and would have welcomed this
extra bit of detail--preferably immediately, not even after a 5 or 10
second delay.
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but the resulting backup will not
be usable.
Does this solve the logging side of this? You can still make a case for
a more forceful pg_stop_backup, this seems to at least remove much of
the mystery and frustration from the whole exercise. This patch plus a
little documentation suggesting
?") recently? I'm well aware this path is full of difficult to
escape from holes. We just need to be careful not do something that
screws over production users in the name of reducing the learning curve.
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iver
doing?" behavior easier to monitor, got the impression people felt it
was redundant given SR was the preferred path moving forward and
eventually this whole archive_command bit would be going away. I could
revive that work if you feel this is such a bad issue that we need a
fuzzy way.
I'll just wait until I see your commit and then rebase on top of that,
no big deal.
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Greg Smith wrote:
Tom Lane wrote:
The explanation is wrong, but it's still disallowed.
What's the actual reason for the restriction then? I did a whole
proofreading round on the HS documentation the other day and am
working on a patch to clean up everything I found, can add bet
this to it.
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Greg Smith 2ndQuadrant US Baltimore, MD
PostgreSQL Training, Services and Support
g...@2ndquadrant.com www.2ndQuadrant.us
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r the examples to get that license
change, I think that's OK. I wouldn't hold up the big work
here--getting your next release out with the big LGPL3 switch for the
main code--over this bit of trivia. I just think it's a potential
future headache you should try to remove when you c
lly pushing what you can do in a VM with this many
databases of this size.
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Greg Smith 2ndQuadrant US Baltimore, MD
PostgreSQL Training, Services and Support
g...@2ndquadrant.com www.2ndQuadrant.us
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To make changes to you
27;s a universal way to
interpret the output even if the user tuned that.
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Greg Smith 2ndQuadrant US Baltimore, MD
PostgreSQL Training, Services and Support
g...@2ndquadrant.com www.2ndQuadrant.us
cate a lawyer on how linking works,
so they understand the subtle distinction for why the two licenses
exist, is no fun at all.
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Greg Smith 2ndQuadrant US Baltimore, MD
PostgreSQL Training, Services and Support
g...@2ndquadrant.com www.2ndQuadrant.us
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code explaining what you just said
above might be helpful, just to preempt a similar "how is this different
from pg_size_pretty?" question from popping up again one day.
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Greg Smith 2ndQuadrant US Baltimore, MD
PostgreSQL Training, Services and Support
g...@2ndquadrant.com www.2n
tFest by linking to your message at
https://commitfest.postgresql.org/ and it won't get lost--it will get
assigned a reviewer at the time when the time comes to look at
completely new patches again.
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Greg Smith2ndQuadrant Baltimore, MD
PostgreSQL Training, Services and Support
g
ready have code floating around
that parses the output from pg_size_pretty when I'm slurping in things
from PostgreSQL, and it's not immediately obvious to me what having a
format that's similar to but not quite the same as that one is buying here.
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Greg Smith 2ndQuadra
ems here don't seem limited to this project; I see a similar
report of the same style of crash against some Linux kernel docbooks at
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=521148
That wanders toward suggesting it's a 32/64 bit issue, but that's not
true here--I get the sam
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