Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-11 Thread Alan Bourke
Paul McNett wrote: I don't understand why anyone would choose to develop single-platform applications when it is possible to develop for all cases. Why limit yourself? Why dictate platform requirements at the outset when it isn't necessary? Well, maybe you might want to have a really

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-11 Thread Jean Laeremans
On Dec 10, 2007 11:41 PM, Paul McNett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh geez, why do I get sucked into these... I'm a mechanic servicing American and foreign automobiles. I believe I'll need a set of wrenches and other tools that will fit both metric and imperial. Just make sure you don't end up

RE: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-11 Thread Bill Arnold
Perhaps what is really being asked is what is the best general purpose database product for future investment? Totally different question for a totally different perspective. But it is high on the list of considerations with something as important as a language decision, where

RE: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-11 Thread Bill Arnold
what is the best general purpose database product for future investment? OK lets phrase the question that way then, does that help? I am trying to approach this in a professional, logical, non-emotive way in-order to ensure the best chance of return on our investment. There are no

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-11 Thread Charlie Coleman
At 02:28 PM 12/10/2007 -0600, Stephen Russell wrote: ... You need to better target your audience on what they do and how they do it today. Sure you could have dreams of linux running through your head but if your doing work for accountants and they live and die Excel is it a requirement to make

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-11 Thread Ed Leafe
On Dec 11, 2007, at 3:47 AM, Alan Bourke wrote: I don't understand why anyone would choose to develop single-platform applications when it is possible to develop for all cases. Why limit yourself? Why dictate platform requirements at the outset when it isn't necessary? Well, maybe you

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-11 Thread Alan Bourke
Ed Leafe wrote: You mean like the Dabo grid? ;-) :) What I'm saying is at the minute the cross-platform approach would maybe involve compromises in the UI department, but that could be outweighed by the advantages of course. ___ Post

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-11 Thread Ed Leafe
On Dec 11, 2007, at 6:50 AM, Alan Bourke wrote: What I'm saying is at the minute the cross-platform approach would maybe involve compromises in the UI department, but that could be outweighed by the advantages of course. I know; I was just being glib. The main point is that if you

RE: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-11 Thread Christof Wollenhaupt
Hi, I don't understand why anyone would choose to develop single-platform applications when it is possible to develop for all cases. This implies that developing for all cases is an equal choice to develop single-platform. But that's not true. Unless an application is also designed,

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-11 Thread Ted Roche
On Dec 11, 2007 6:50 AM, Alan Bourke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What I'm saying is at the minute the cross-platform approach would maybe involve compromises in the UI department, but that could be outweighed by the advantages of course. Maybe it would. Maybe it wouldn't. You're too

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-11 Thread MB Software Solutions
Stephen Russell wrote: If it is to be run locally on your phone or a hand held then a db might be overkill in memory usage. But parsing out the xml on an as needed basis and index the data in what ever container your using could be fine. Ok, I can see that pov, but without a db and just

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-11 Thread Stephen Russell
On Dec 11, 2007 5:25 AM, Charlie Coleman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 02:28 PM 12/10/2007 -0600, Stephen Russell wrote: ... You need to better target your audience on what they do and how they do it today. Sure you could have dreams of linux running through your head but if your doing

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-11 Thread Stephen Russell
On Dec 11, 2007 8:46 AM, Ted Roche [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 11, 2007 9:21 AM, Stephen Russell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Considering that we have no idea what this thing is intended to do we all have MEGA opinions, don't we? :) I love the smell of napalm in the morning! --

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-11 Thread Alan Bourke
Ted Roche wrote: I love the smell of napalm in the morning! -- Apocalypse Now I've never woken up and thought Saigon ... sh!t ..., but when I presented with a new project I often think 'I asked them for a mission, and for my sins they gave me one ...

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-11 Thread Ted Roche
On Dec 11, 2007 9:21 AM, Stephen Russell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Considering that we have no idea what this thing is intended to do we all have MEGA opinions, don't we? :) I love the smell of napalm in the morning! -- Apocalypse Now -- Ted Flamewar? What flamewar? Pass me that bucket of

RE: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-11 Thread William Sanders / EFG
Sometimes, Nick, it boils down to 'which crystal ball are you comfortable with?' Ages Past, the 'normal way' to do this was to: 1. write a Requirements Document based on Requirements Elicitation Methodologies garnered from the CMM (Capability Maturity Model). 2. Apply the Metrics of Function

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-11 Thread Stephen Russell
On Dec 11, 2007 11:31 AM, William Sanders / EFG [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good Luck ! Yer at a painful and critical stage, pre-analysis. Some of us say that it is really another version of paralysis. If you don't have the business requirements down, how can you go and justify HOW to do

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-11 Thread MB Software Solutions
Stephen Russell wrote: On Dec 11, 2007 11:31 AM, William Sanders / EFG [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good Luck ! Yer at a painful and critical stage, pre-analysis. Some of us say that it is really another version of paralysis. If you don't have the business requirements down, how can

RE: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-11 Thread NickC
: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required what is the best general purpose database product for future investment? OK lets phrase the question that way then, does that help? I am trying to approach this in a professional, logical, non-emotive way in-order to ensure the best

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-11 Thread Whil Hentzen
Reminds me of a few Dilbert cartoons where the PHB tells them to build a database (but doesn't give any more details than that) and Dilbert asks him what color do you want that database? to which the PHB responds purple.g Wasn't that line: I think mauve has the most RAM. Whil

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-11 Thread MB Software Solutions
NickC wrote: Paul has kindly suggested Python which when coulpled with say MySQL might do the job, I need to investigate further. However, I am concerned that it is not a 4GL type environment. The drawbacks that I can see with Python (please correct me where I am wrong) at the moment are:

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-11 Thread MB Software Solutions
Whil Hentzen wrote: Reminds me of a few Dilbert cartoons where the PHB tells them to build a database (but doesn't give any more details than that) and Dilbert asks him what color do you want that database? to which the PHB responds purple.g Wasn't that line: I think mauve

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-11 Thread Paul McNett
NickC wrote: Hi Bill, thanks for your thoughts. This whole thread seems to have rapidly degenerated into an argument about irrelevantcies, it is good to get some constructive discussion. Now I am aware, I guess that is obvious, that Fox can do exactly what we want at the moment but the

RE: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-11 Thread Wolfe, Stephen S YA-02 6 MDSS/SGSI
PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of NickC Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 1:48 PM To: 'ProFox Email List' Subject: RE: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required Hi Bill, thanks for your thoughts. This whole thread seems to have rapidly degenerated into an argument about

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-11 Thread David Boatright
Charlie Coleman I've dropped Open Office Calc in front of an Excel-loving accountant and left him alone for a few days. When I checked back he said he didn't have any problems and thought OO would work just fine. Of course, the company is 'standardized' on MS Office, so that's what he's using. At

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-11 Thread MB Software Solutions
Paul McNett wrote: The application I'm getting paid to work on currently is a production window shutter specification system - tracks customers, orders, components available for purchase from my client, and prints out cutsheets for the window shop to build the shutters to spec. The app

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-11 Thread Charlie Coleman
At 02:46 PM 12/11/2007 -0500, David Boatright wrote: Charlie Coleman I've dropped Open Office Calc in front of an Excel-loving accountant and left him alone for a few days. When I checked back he said he didn't have any problems and thought OO would work just fine. Of course, the company is ...

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-11 Thread MB Software Solutions
David Boatright wrote: Charlie Coleman I've dropped Open Office Calc in front of an Excel-loving accountant and left him alone for a few days. When I checked back he said he didn't have any problems and thought OO would work just fine. Of course, the company is 'standardized' on MS

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-11 Thread Alan Bourke
Well, I've just discovered that FoxPro for DOS will run quite happily in Ubuntu under DOSEmu, so there's your cross-platform solution! ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-11 Thread Ted Roche
On Dec 11, 2007 3:45 PM, Alan Bourke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, I've just discovered that FoxPro for DOS will run quite happily in Ubuntu under DOSEmu, so there's your cross-platform solution! CodeBook 2.5 here we come! The Foundation Read returns! -- Ted Roche Ted Roche Associates, LLC

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-11 Thread Paul McNett
Ted Roche wrote: On Dec 11, 2007 3:45 PM, Alan Bourke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, I've just discovered that FoxPro for DOS will run quite happily in Ubuntu under DOSEmu, so there's your cross-platform solution! CodeBook 2.5 here we come! The Foundation Read returns! Personally, I always

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-11 Thread Ted Roche
On Dec 11, 2007 4:21 PM, Paul McNett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Personally, I always get nostalgic for SHOW GETS. I'm getting all misty-eyed and choked-up. SHOW GETS NOSHOW NOWINDOW. And who can forget EX1 and EX2 and the MOAR! -- Ted Get out of the WayBack Machine, Sherman! Roche Ted Roche

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-11 Thread MB Software Solutions
Ted Roche wrote: On Dec 11, 2007 4:21 PM, Paul McNett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Personally, I always get nostalgic for SHOW GETS. Ted Get out of the WayBack Machine, Sherman! Roche Talk about nostalgia! Fractured Fairy Tales were the greatest! g -- Michael J. Babcock, MCP

RE: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-11 Thread mrgmhale
: Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required Well, I've just discovered that FoxPro for DOS will run quite happily in Ubuntu under DOSEmu, so there's your cross-platform solution! [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages

RE: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-10 Thread Rick Schummer
Bill, Lo and behold, the politicians from the partner company, who I was required to work with, claimed that, as you describe, *we* (meaning *they*) has a need to analyze the requirements and choose the best tool for the job. Politics is just another requirement from my perspective. I do not

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-10 Thread MB Software Solutions
Ted Roche wrote: On Dec 9, 2007 11:06 AM, Nick Causton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The age old question again I am afraid - which language to use? C. The language is standardized, available from mutliple vendors, has deep support availabile, huge numbers of add-on libraries and is

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-10 Thread Alan Bourke
MB Software Solutions wrote: I'd think you might have been kidding, but didn't see the smiley. ;-) Well, I think he's saying you should define the requirements more closely! You would be crazy to embark on an application like this using C or C++.

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-10 Thread Stephen Russell
On Dec 10, 2007 9:07 AM, MB Software Solutions [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But are there many qualified C developers out there to support that choice? Recall that was one of the huge strikes against VFP (there's not many VFP developers--good ones anyway), and at the same time the huge plus

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-10 Thread MB Software Solutions
Alan Bourke wrote: Well, I think he's saying you should define the requirements more closely! I'll say! You would be crazy to embark on an application like this using C or C++. Absolutely! -- Michael J. Babcock, MCP MB Software Solutions, LLC http://mbsoftwaresolutions.com

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-10 Thread Alan Bourke
Stephen Russell wrote: C / Java are still taught in university level as the language. This is a language that would be always looking for a talented base of coders, and they woudl know that theyare going to be paid well at the same time. So is Pascal, because it teaches good habits. I

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-10 Thread Stephen Russell
On Dec 10, 2007 9:19 AM, MB Software Solutions [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Alan Bourke wrote: Well, I think he's saying you should define the requirements more closely! I'll say! You would be crazy to embark on an application like this using C or C++. Absolutely! Why? Because you

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-10 Thread Stephen Russell
On Dec 10, 2007 9:20 AM, Alan Bourke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Stephen Russell wrote: C / Java are still taught in university level as the language. This is a language that would be always looking for a talented base of coders, and they woudl know that theyare going to be paid well at the

RE: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-10 Thread Bill Arnold
Michael, Perhaps what is really being asked is what is the best general purpose database product for future investment? And Bill, because it's you, I have to ask: you wouldn't say Foxpro for the database here, would you? Remember your words: future investment Foremost, it's

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-10 Thread Ed Leafe
On Dec 10, 2007, at 10:17 AM, Stephen Russell wrote: C / Java are still taught in university level as the language. That's changing, though. RIT (Rochester Institute of Technology) just switched to Python for its courses. The rationale was you can teach programming without having to

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-10 Thread Paul Hill
On Dec 10, 2007 3:50 PM, Ed Leafe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 10, 2007, at 10:17 AM, Stephen Russell wrote: C / Java are still taught in university level as the language. That's changing, though. RIT (Rochester Institute of Technology) just switched to Python for its courses.

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-10 Thread MB Software Solutions
Paul Hill wrote: snipped Programmers should all learn assembler too - it's the only way you learn to write fast optimised code. I can say that programming in Assembler did in fact ingrain into me the ideas to optimize and write fast code indeed. -- Michael J. Babcock, MCP MB Software

RE: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-10 Thread Bill Arnold
Rick, Lo and behold, the politicians from the partner company, who I was required to work with, claimed that, as you describe, *we* (meaning *they*) has a need to analyze the requirements and choose the best tool for the job. Politics is just another requirement from my perspective.

RE: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-10 Thread Dave Crozier
Mike, So where did you go wrong? VBG Dave Crozier -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MB Software Solutions Sent: 10 December 2007 16:12 To: profox@leafe.com Subject: Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required Paul Hill wrote

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-10 Thread Stephen Russell
On Dec 10, 2007 9:50 AM, Ed Leafe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 10, 2007, at 10:17 AM, Stephen Russell wrote: C / Java are still taught in university level as the language. That's changing, though. RIT (Rochester Institute of Technology) just switched to Python for its courses.

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-10 Thread Alan Bourke
Java sucks because it doesn't have pointers :-) No, Java and C# are *great* because you can get on with being productive and not have to worry about memory management and pointers. :) It's 2007. Why would I want to be allocating my own memory?

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-10 Thread MB Software Solutions
Dave Crozier wrote: Mike, So where did you go wrong? VBG I said I do to the wrong person. Oh, oops...right answer to wrong question!!! g -- Michael J. Babcock, MCP MB Software Solutions, LLC http://mbsoftwaresolutions.com http://fabmate.com Work smarter, not harder, with MBSS custom

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-10 Thread MB Software Solutions
Alan Bourke wrote: Java sucks because it doesn't have pointers :-) No, Java and C# are *great* because you can get on with being productive and not have to worry about memory management and pointers. :) It's 2007. Why would I want to be allocating my own memory? Some

RE: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-10 Thread Dave Crozier
Sent: 10 December 2007 16:43 To: profox@leafe.com Subject: Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required Dave Crozier wrote: Mike, So where did you go wrong? VBG I said I do to the wrong person. Oh, oops...right answer to wrong question!!! g -- Michael J. Babcock, MCP MB Software

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-10 Thread Ed Leafe
On Dec 10, 2007, at 11:26 AM, Alan Bourke wrote: Java sucks because it doesn't have pointers :-) No, Java and C# are *great* because you can get on with being productive and not have to worry about memory management and pointers. :) It's 2007. Why would I want to be allocating my own

[OT] Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-10 Thread MB Software Solutions
Dave Crozier wrote: Mike, You know the reason why getting married spoils things? Well, nobody wants to sleep with a close relative, do they. (No discussions from the group pervs please!) 2nd cousins are technically ok I think, Dave!!! (Taken OT before TR slams me for running up the

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-10 Thread MB Software Solutions
Ed Leafe wrote: Of course, the answer is it depends. Mostly on what level you are programming to. If you are creating hardware drivers and the like, you'd better be using a low-level language. If you are writing a business app for 100 users to access a database server, it

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-10 Thread Ed Leafe
On Dec 10, 2007, at 12:05 PM, MB Software Solutions wrote: Sounds great to me, Ed. It's refreshing to hear this news. The old FORTRAN and COBOL classes seemed long overdue for retirement from college curriculum. IIRC, they were using mostly Java, with a few Pascal courses still

RE: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-10 Thread Rick Schummer
In actual practice, the consultant is just as often chosen to beef up and sell the bosses pre-determined point of view. Sure this happens. I have worked in environments where the consultants are brought in for opinions, and are used to make the best decision. It is a valuable service and one I

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-10 Thread MB Software Solutions
Ed Leafe wrote: IIRC, they were using mostly Java, with a few Pascal courses still around. I don't think that anyone's taught Fortran or Cobol in general courses for decades. It was at Penn State in the early 90s...I hope they stopped shortly after I left! -- Michael J.

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-10 Thread Alan Bourke
MB Software Solutions wrote: Ed Leafe wrote: IIRC, they were using mostly Java, with a few Pascal courses still around. I don't think that anyone's taught Fortran or Cobol in general courses for decades. It was at Penn State in the early 90s...I hope they stopped

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-10 Thread MB Software Solutions
Alan Bourke wrote: Still a hell of a lot of legacy COBOL out there ... And with no plans to migrate it iirc either...perhaps why M$ made Cobol able to run under DotNet (again iirc)??? -- Michael J. Babcock, MCP MB Software Solutions, LLC http://mbsoftwaresolutions.com http://fabmate.com

RE: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-10 Thread Rick Schummer
The reason why Python was chosen was precisely because the courses dealt with concepts such as algorithms, looping, conditionals, classes, etc. - things that are common to all languages. The faculty simply felt that Python required the least amount of language- specific instruction,

RE: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-10 Thread Bill Arnold
Rick, In actual practice, the consultant is just as often chosen to beef up and sell the bosses pre-determined point of view. Sure this happens. I have worked in environments where the consultants are brought in for opinions, and are used to make the best decision. It is a valuable

RE: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-10 Thread NickC
Of Bill Arnold Sent: 10 December 2007 07:53 To: profox@leafe.com Subject: RE: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required Rick, What you say is clearly valid, but there are pitfalls. Years ago, I was tasked with implementing 'systems management' applications for a large company. IBM

RE: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-10 Thread NickC
December 2007 21:28 To: profox@leafe.com Subject: RE: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required I think you missed my point Nick. The choice cannot be really discussed with a lack of information. Even with the details you posted in response to the post by Gil and myself. There are too many

RE: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-10 Thread NickC
] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ted Roche Sent: 10 December 2007 14:33 To: profox@leafe.com Subject: Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required On Dec 9, 2007 11:06 AM, Nick Causton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The age old question again I am afraid - which language to use

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-10 Thread MB Software Solutions
Rick Schummer wrote: What a brilliant concept! My son looked at RIT for a brief time and I knew it would have been a smart choice. A kid from my town up in PA goes to RIT for CompSci (or some derivative). -- Michael J. Babcock, MCP MB Software Solutions, LLC

RE: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-10 Thread Rick Schummer
The point of the thread was to elicit discussion and eventually decide which language/databse is best suited to this project. I understand this, and I am sticking and staying with the fact that one cannot decide without more knowledge. I think the better question would be this: Based on the

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-10 Thread Paul McNett
NickC wrote: Bill Arnold wrote: what is the best general purpose database product for future investment? OK lets phrase the question that way then, does that help? Future investment in a general purpose database product, in my mind, has a few important requirements: a) Knowing the

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-10 Thread Ed Leafe
On Dec 10, 2007, at 2:48 PM, Paul McNett wrote: Now, those requirements were only off the top of my head, and show my bias (come up with requirements that Python would satisfy). So... what are some other requirements for this class of product? g) Has a kick-ass development framework supported

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-10 Thread Alan Bourke
Paul McNett wrote: e) The database is scalable from small single-user in-memory to enterprise-level. Any of the products could probably use any database from an XML file upwards assuming the drivers exist. ___ Post Messages to:

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-10 Thread Paul McNett
Alan Bourke wrote: Paul McNett wrote: e) The database is scalable from small single-user in-memory to enterprise-level. Any of the products could probably use any database from an XML file upwards assuming the drivers exist. I don't think of XML as a database, but rather a data

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-10 Thread Stephen Russell
On Dec 10, 2007 1:41 PM, NickC [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is a business app for say 20 users. No hardware drivers, if there were I would of course use C for them. I would drop using words like database and application because they are the two dumb ends of the nTier development that I am

RE: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-10 Thread Rick Schummer
, Inc. www.whitelightcomputing.com www.swfox.net www.rickschummer.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul McNett Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 03:37 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-10 Thread Stephen Russell
On Dec 10, 2007 2:36 PM, Paul McNett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Stephen Russell wrote: You need to better target your audience on what they do and how they do it today. Sure you could have dreams of linux running through your head but if your doing work for accountants and they live and

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-10 Thread Ed Leafe
On Dec 10, 2007, at 4:55 PM, Stephen Russell wrote: Even if Windows support is a requirement (granted, it probably will be) that doesn't mean that it is the right choice to limit the application to Windows-only deployment. Sorry but that is only pure EGO . ???

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-10 Thread Paul McNett
Rick Schummer wrote: Even if Windows support is a requirement (granted, it probably will be) that doesn't mean that it is the right choice to limit the application to Windows-only deployment. The same goes to limiting your choices of tools and language based on some artificial desire by

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-10 Thread MB Software Solutions
Stephen Russell wrote: You have to go back to who is going to operate the new system and what they need it to do. Do you need a db, or will XML files suffice? Unless it's very light (in terms of data), I can't imagine NOT having a db. -- Michael J. Babcock, MCP MB Software Solutions,

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-10 Thread Stephen Russell
On Dec 10, 2007 3:58 PM, Ed Leafe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 10, 2007, at 4:55 PM, Stephen Russell wrote: Even if Windows support is a requirement (granted, it probably will be) that doesn't mean that it is the right choice to limit the application to Windows-only deployment.

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-10 Thread Paul McNett
MB Software Solutions wrote: Stephen Russell wrote: You have to go back to who is going to operate the new system and what they need it to do. Do you need a db, or will XML files suffice? Unless it's very light (in terms of data), I can't imagine NOT having a db. I cant imagine

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-10 Thread Stephen Russell
On Dec 10, 2007 4:01 PM, Paul McNett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Stephen Russell wrote: On Dec 10, 2007 2:36 PM, Paul McNett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Stephen Russell wrote: You need to better target your audience on what they do and how they do it today. Sure you could have

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-10 Thread Paul McNett
Stephen Russell wrote: On Dec 10, 2007 3:58 PM, Ed Leafe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 10, 2007, at 4:55 PM, Stephen Russell wrote: Even if Windows support is a requirement (granted, it probably will be) that doesn't mean that it is the right choice to limit the application to

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-10 Thread Stephen Russell
On Dec 10, 2007 4:08 PM, MB Software Solutions [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Stephen Russell wrote: You have to go back to who is going to operate the new system and what they need it to do. Do you need a db, or will XML files suffice? Unless it's very light (in terms of data), I

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-10 Thread Paul McNett
Stephen Russell wrote: I see that as a very limiting requirement. It is like buying a set of wrenches to work on your car with. You have a CHOICE between Metric or English. Past that decision they just work. So why demand that you have to have both sets at the onset? Oh geez, why do I

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-10 Thread Ed Leafe
On Dec 10, 2007, at 5:26 PM, Stephen Russell wrote: No you have thousands of options and YOUR requirement tosses 90% or more out of the pool before we have business requirements or functional requirements. Nobody tossed anything; it was a matter of all other needs being met,

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-10 Thread Ed Leafe
On Dec 10, 2007, at 5:37 PM, Stephen Russell wrote: If it is to be run locally on your phone or a hand held then a db might be overkill in memory usage. But parsing out the xml on an as needed basis and index the data in what ever container your using could be fine. Hmmm...

RE: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-10 Thread Rick Schummer
Define better. Exactly my point. If I have to pick between a tool with a better ROI that is going to get me faster to market with the existing and trusted software developer (and ties me to the preferred platform), and one that has higher training costs (that might not be in the budget) with

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-10 Thread Ricardo Aráoz
MB Software Solutions wrote: Paul Hill wrote: snipped Programmers should all learn assembler too - it's the only way you learn to write fast optimised code. I can say that programming in Assembler did in fact ingrain into me the ideas to optimize and write fast code indeed. And

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-10 Thread Stephen Russell
On Dec 10, 2007 4:29 PM, Paul McNett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: MB Software Solutions wrote: Stephen Russell wrote: You have to go back to who is going to operate the new system and what they need it to do. Do you need a db, or will XML files suffice? Unless it's very light (in

A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-09 Thread Nick Causton
The age old question again I am afraid - which language to use? We are maybe looking at a largish $200k development for which we want to get returns for the next ten years, longer if possible. Now lets assume that I am being employed as a Strategic Consultant to examine which development

RE: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-09 Thread mrgmhale
... Gil -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Nick Causton Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:07 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required The age old question again I am afraid - which language to use? We

RE: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-09 Thread Rick Schummer
. www.whitelightcomputing.com www.swfox.net www.rickschummer.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nick Causton Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:07 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required The age old question again I am

RE: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-09 Thread NickC
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of mrgmhale Sent: 09 December 2007 17:01 To: profox@leafe.com Subject: RE: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required Existing hardware? If so what do you have? Do you have to stay within Windows

RE: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-09 Thread NickC
/ Crystal Ball required You forgot to mention some or many of the key requirements. I am not saying you are doing this, but this is where most strategic consultants make a big mistake in my opinion. Pick a language before understanding all/most of the requirements. I have worked on too many

RE: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-09 Thread Rick Schummer
of Strategy / Crystal Ball required You forgot to mention some or many of the key requirements. I am not saying you are doing this, but this is where most strategic consultants make a big mistake in my opinion. Pick a language before understanding all/most of the requirements. I have worked

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-09 Thread MB Software Solutions
Nick Causton wrote: The age old question again I am afraid - which language to use? We are maybe looking at a largish $200k development for which we want to get returns for the next ten years, longer if possible. Now lets assume that I am being employed as a Strategic Consultant to examine

RE: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-09 Thread mrgmhale
: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required I think you missed my point Nick. The choice cannot be really discussed with a lack of information. Even with the details you posted in response to the post by Gil and myself. There are too many unanswered questions. Database of 10 tables

Re: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-09 Thread Whil Hentzen
mrgmhale wrote: I hate to even come off as tromping on this opportunity you have come across Nick. That is the last thing I would want to do. But Rick's point is really well grounded. IMHO one of the very last things that ought to be considered for a software/solution development project is

RE: A Question of Strategy / Crystal Ball required

2007-12-09 Thread Bill Arnold
Rick, What you say is clearly valid, but there are pitfalls. Years ago, I was tasked with implementing 'systems management' applications for a large company. IBM, which owned half the company, had a major database product specifically for this purpose (info/mgmt). Upon receiving the assignment -