> That is a really good idea and would be an EXCELLENT PR move on their
> part. It might hurt financially in the short run, but the positive spin
> they would get would be so great.
>
>
Likewise!
It has been a crying shame to see what had become a loyal & supportive group
of Customers ( 99SE on
That is a really good idea and would be an EXCELLENT PR move on their
part. It might hurt financially in the short run, but the positive spin
they would get would be so great.
> -Original Message-
> From: JaMi Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 7:47 PM
>
Well it's early in the game for Altium and ATS. Just because maintenance
hasn't been done properly before doesn't mean it won't work this time.
However, they really need to make some PR progress or else it's really
going to hurt them.
If they are fast and furious with the service packs and featur
You know, if Altium was smart, they would . . .
Let me rephrase that.
If Altium even cares about what their customers think about them, and the
want those customers to remain customers, I would suggest that they consider
"tolling" (in the legal sense) the duration of the ATS "contract", for the
I have one contrary experience. I re-did a simple two layer board I did
by hand years ago, and Situs did better than any previous version. In
fact it looks pretty damn good...close to hand routing.
All previous routers could manage 100%, but they looked like hell. Situs
did not.
The problem is I
See, there's another good reason to stick to this list... I learn
something all the time. Thanks Dennis. (I don't think I ever viewed that
report because I thought it wasn't accurate enough to be useful.
For example, I like the "Size Of board" to be listed, but it's never
right because 99SE does
WOW - Is this deja vu?
I recall this same discussion when we purchased Protel 98 at the wrong time just prior
to Protel 99 and then 99SE being released. (IMO) I would not expect any further
service packs for obsolete product such as Protel 99SE. Protel has shown this end of
life policy with
there's always a next victim, plenty of Enrons or Barings in the world
to chose from (anyone remember _that_ one? ).
What concerns me is the little victims, who get squeezed somewhere in the
middle. Management gets record paychecks and benefits, companies file
chapter 11 , shareholders get sha
yes all this info is there in 99SE
1]
for pad counts you CAN get layer specific counts
with the board open and current
click Reports menu
Board Information ...
General Tab
click the Reports button at the bottom
check Layer info checkbox (maybe uncheck other stuff)
click the report button at the b
I am not experienced in using the new Situs router but I have tried it with
disastrous results. Since I thought I might have been doing something
wrong, I loaded the sample boards routed at Altium by what I would have
thought to be an experienced Situs user. I posted a list of sample areas to
lo
Good point! However M$ has loads of resources and it might be easier for
them to support both at the same time.
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 5:15 AM
> To: Protel EDA Forum
> Subject: [PEDA] Antwort: Service Pac
Thanks for the lead. I'm about to send them a 14"x8" 4layer proto job.
> -Original Message-
> From: Ken Henrich [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 3:03 PM
> To: Protel EDA Forum
> Subject: Re: [PEDA] PCB houses
>
>
> FWIW, I've used http://e-teknet.com/Produc
See, that's the funny stuff I was talking about...Ivan just cracks me
up!! :)
Speaking of Agilent, you ever notice how they try to sell you a new LA
when you call up looking for some LA feet or some other little
accessory?
"Sorry sir, your 16500C is obsolete. Have you see our refurbished deals
It is a great aid AND I don't think it's the cause of the crappy panning
and redraw speed.
Try this: remove all floating menus from the workspace (in DXP) and then
pan...it still is worse than 99SE. I see great potential in DXP's
interface, but they need some serious optimizations for the GUI spe
I think some of that is un-necessary and extreme. Many people have a
high level of confidence in the DDB format. Several have complained that
DXP has tossed it.
I also use my design computer for email, web surfing for data sheets,
porn, etc. (LOL) but I don't play computer games or download every
Whoops, I think the answer is no. :(
> -Original Message-
> From: Tim Fifield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 9:55 AM
> To: Protel EDA Form
> Subject: [PEDA] Layer Specific Pad count
>
>
> Is it possible to get layer specific pad and component counts
> in P9
You mean like the ones that all these $33/$34 board houses ask?
> -Original Message-
> From: Tim Fifield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 9:55 AM
> To: Protel EDA Form
> Subject: [PEDA] Layer Specific Pad count
>
>
> Is it possible to get layer specific pad a
Stock exchange agrees ;-)
http://www.asx.com.au/asx/research/chartsSearch.jsp?searchBy=asxCode&asxCode
=ALU&TimeFrame=D
Cheers
Don
- Original Message -
From: "Bruce Walter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2002 8:19 AM
Subject: [
lowering taxes under the right circumstances can actually raise tax
revenues collected
the converse can also be true
from my perspective the maintenance thing is not nec. a killer
it depends on what they deliver for that
Dennis Saputelli
Bruce Walter wrote:
>
> Heck, I am still using P98, PCB
maybe there are no comments about the autorouter because nobody has
gotten that far into the process for all of the reasons stated here
(programm too different and slow)
the few things that i have seen on the DXP list are not encouraging
running new stringers to pads already fanned out to power
FWIW, I've used http://e-teknet.com/ProductPCB.htm for prototypes. They are
incredibly cost efficient and their boards are first rate. Much better than
those I've used domestically and 1/5 the price!
Regards
Ken Henrich
*
Heck, I am still using P98, PCB only!
We have a P99SE license, but I have been unwilling to go through the learning
curve for PCB, much less use P99SE schematic vs. OrCAD 7.2!
That being the case, why would I want to spend ANY money on DXP, and get
trapped into annual maintenance?
Once again, s
As for W98 vs. W2K, I know W2K has better resources, and it was implied to me
that there is no actual limit - it is handled in a completely different way.
A typical environment is for me to have PowerDesk, Outlook 2K, 3x ie6, OrCAD
7.2, P98, Acrobat (not reader) with many large datasheets opened,
I am still running P98, and this will happen if I try to minimize Protel
before the splash disappears on its own.
I just wait the second or two for the splash to disappear before minimizing -
never had a problem.
* Tracking
At 04:23 PM 8/30/2002 -0400, Michael Reagan (EDSI) wrote:
>I probably would pay for SP7 with as long as they met the long list of our
>requirements also.
I too have been put off by the complexities introduced with DXP. If it had
been, say, a bug fix for 99SE, at a corresponding price, there is
i think that that is fairly stated
Dennis Saputelli
Brad Velander wrote:
>
> Roger,
> my feelings would be:
> This is an end of life product.
> There is no great recurring value to Protel in supporting it with service
> Packs.
> We want to forgo switch to DXP, for the time-being.
> So,
Roger,
my feelings would be:
This is an end of life product.
There is no great recurring value to Protel in supporting it with service
Packs.
We want to forgo switch to DXP, for the time-being.
So, there has to be some return to Protel for putting the effort into fixing
the outstanding iss
>
>
>If I didn't already have nice expensive equipment I would consider these new
>things. No way am I going to replace my HP LA and LeCroy scope until they
>die or I need something better. Did I say HP? I meant Agilent (rhymes with
>flatulent).
>
so what is wrong with flatulent ?
***
We pay enough, we should receive stuff that works.
but... stockholders come first.
* Tracking #: 163FC3EAA288CF4D9410DA2307239122E11C8C5C
*
* * * *
Glad you laughed Vincent. I had noticed on one of your first posts the email
address, then I noticed the signature, started to wonder what the connection
was. Have a good day!
Sincerely,
Brad Velander.
Lead PCB Designer
Norsat International Inc.
Microwave Products
Tel (604) 292-9089 (direct li
I probably would pay for SP7 with as long as they met the long list of our
requirements also.
Mike Reagan
- Original Message -
From: Dennis Saputelli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Protel EDA Forum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 3:00 PM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Service Pack 7
i hope that my skepticism is misplaced regarding this development
Dennis Saputelli
Terry Harris wrote:
>
> On Fri, 30 Aug 2002 10:26:22 -0700, Daniel wrote:
>
> >Dennis Saputelli wrote:
>
> >" i am very skeptical about the fading thing which i think is driving the
> >performance degradation
woehahahahaha good one . didn't realise it . Yes it is confiusing isn't it ?
Well we used to be alcatel microelectronics and were sold 2 months ago
to ST microelectronics. We still use alcatel ,and alcatel
microelectroncis by mistake.and we still are using alcatels network
until we cross over
Brad:
I'm not justifying what they are doing. Quite the contrary, I find it
disgusting.
Best regards,
Ivan Baggett
Bagotronix Inc.
website: www.bagotronix.com
- Original Message -
From: "Brad Velander" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'Protel EDA Forum'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, Aug
Vincent:
You want me to buy a lot of new stuff. I don't think it's my responsibility
to single-handedly dig us out of the recession! ;-)
Best regards,
Ivan Baggett
Bagotronix Inc.
website: www.bagotronix.com
- Original Message -
From: "vincent mail" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Protel E
See replies below.
Best regards,
Ivan Baggett
Bagotronix Inc.
website: www.bagotronix.com
- Original Message -
From: "vincent mail" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 1:35 PM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Bizzare and Repeatable
> Dump t
On Fri, 30 Aug 2002 10:26:22 -0700, Daniel wrote:
>Dennis Saputelli wrote:
>" i am very skeptical about the fading thing which i think is driving the
>performance degradation "
>It is unfortunate, but seems to be the consistent testimony of many Protel
>users that the new DXP software is not im
Ivan,
I understand what you are saying and I can completely agree if this
was a mass marketed product. It isn't so I have a problem with pushing off
such things as "marketing". I keep wondering what other feature did they
strip out that I would sorely miss? I'm not paying them to find it o
Vincent,
since you have shown up in this forum, I have been dying to ask, do
you have an identity crisis? Do you know who you work for? Alcatel or ST
Microelectronics? 8^>
Sincerely,
Brad Velander.
Lead PCB Designer
Norsat International Inc.
Microwave Products
Tel (604) 292-9089 (dir
i run acad 2k, netscape mail, and excel concurrently with 99SE all the
time on win2K with no problems
sometimes it seems that adding adobe acrobat 4.0 the the mix hoses
things up
SP7 reminder item
don't start a new (second) session of protel when double clicking a DDB
from explorer
this isn't har
My biggest complaint with DXP is that the interface has changed so much it
appears that P99SE was just scrapped and they started all over with a
similar look and feel. The problem with this is that many features of P99SE
we have all come to rely upon have been removed or missed in DXP. I would
r
> I am amazed at the number of items that are apparently missing from
> DXP according to the forum messages. Nick keeps coming in and stating that
> it is coming. Why wasn't it there at release, it was an existing
> feature/function in P99SE? This is what I mean by incompetent, they
release
> a ne
>
>
>OK, so how many more apps are we going to devote an entire machine to? If I
>did this, there would be no room in my office for me! I already have 4 PCs
>(Linux server, 486 hackbox, W2K CADzilla, W95 print server) on/under my
>desk, 2 printers, and the usual test equipment (LA, scope, PS, et
Dennis Saputelli wrote:
" i am very skeptical about the fading thing which i think is driving the
performance degradation "
It is unfortunate, but seems to be the consistent testimony of many Protel
users that the new DXP software is not improving the ability of pcb designs
to do their work bett
30/08/2002 17:30:45, "Bagotronix Tech Support"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>For what it's worth, Protel 99SE running on W2K works pretty well, no
>resource limitations like in W9X. Just don't switch the focus while 99SE is
>loading! And don't select a non-existent network printer!
Seconded - M
> -Original Message-
> From: Gordon Price
> Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 1:02 PM
> To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
> Subject: unsubscribe proteledausers
>
> unsubscribe proteledausers
* Tracking #: 97
Dennis,
hahahahaha, you just had to stick that export in again didn't you?
I agree with the concept of giving away schematic, a near giveaway
program worked for OrCAD for so many years. I have even spoke with a couple
Protel NA employees who think similarly, seems it is never going
i stand corrected. yep it slipped my mind that under win2k you indeed
have 3 chunks but , so under 2k you indeed have some more leeway but the
thing still stands : gone is gone , no matter how many gigs of ram you
have in the box.
thanks for spotting this one.
Tim Hutcheson wrote:
>Vincent,
Is it possible to get layer specific pad and component counts in P99SE?
Tim Fifield
* Tracking #: 87841C98C1CAC048A562FEA5B26AC5B550D55B87
*
* * * *
> A couple of things : If you are going to run a CAD application reserve
> one machine for nothing but CAD. Do not EVER run ANYTHING else on it ,
> and especialy do not use the same machine to surf the web . Boot it ,
> launch protel , close protel , shutdown computer. That is all that is
OK, so
Vincent, words of wisdom, for sure. But I think I recall that Win2000 has
three 64k segments devoted to resources instead of the original single 64k
of resources in Win98. So maybe its a little better than Win98se in that
regard. Not that it matters much - when its gone, its gone.
regards,
Ti
I've only seen this when I had some holes on top of holes. One report
consolidated the holes at the same location and the other did not.
Robert D. LaMoreaux
MTS Systems Corp.
Powertrain Technology Division
4622 Runway Blvd.
Ann Arbor, MI 48108
734-822-9696
Fax 734-973-1103
Main Desk 734-973-111
i also never use PLD, Simulation or 3D non-viewer
i spent about 4 hours on DXP and felt stupid and robbed of my time
i am very skeptical about the fading thing which i think is driving the
performance degradation
brad you are right that the cam configuration details are very tedious
to check an
Brad,
Here is a copy of my post to the DXP forum concerning the Cam Manager:
---
It seems to me that the old "F9" to generate all fab outputs is now gone and
we are back to the old way of generating each output individually. This is
a step backwards i
i think we are due for SP7 for 99SE
JaMi, have you sent this to protel?
i would appreciate if you posted their response back here
i don't have the time or patience to play with DXP
i looked at it a little and you need to be a part time programmer to
operate it now
i bought a second seat for $5
Intel RC440 BX motherboard with TNT2 + 16 meg on board
Pentium II - 400
64 meg ram
30 Gbyte harddisk
running windows 98 Se and protel 99 SE
NEVER had protel crap out on me WHEN it was running ALONE !! (launching
other things would make it lock up occasionally) . Have made a lot of
designs ( 6 la
Rob,
you have expressed my feelings exactly. Following the postings in
the DXP forum, upgrading is not something that I will be doing for a long
time. I would readily pay for a SP7 for P99SE if it fixes our concerns and
bugs contained in our Yahoo buglist. I will not pay to upgrade to thei
I am unable to ascertain the method, if there is one, of modifying the
fields that I get when I generate a Pick and Place file for a PCB.
Specidically, I want to be able to include the Part # field as it is
in the BOM, but I do not want the Footprint field.
Any pointers or assistance greatly app
Amen!
Steve Smith
Product Engineer
Staco Energy Products Co.
Web Site: www.stacoenergy.com
> -Original Message-
> From: Bagotronix Tech Support [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 11:01 AM
> To: Protel EDA Forum
> Subject: Re: [PEDA] Service Pack 7 - or free DXP
>
I don't know if this is the same problem I've seen, but I suspect it is,
just manifesting differently on my machine (CADzilla, dual PIII-1GHz, W2K
SP2, 512MB RAM, Matrox G450, 99SE SP6)
During the loading of 99SE, if I switch the focus away from Protel, I get an
error message something like 'exce
> Not only is that, there are still customers and small companies out there
> that want only schematic capture tools at a low cost.If I am not
> mistaken you can only purchase Schematic tools from Orcad and Eagle
> software. Cadence reluctantly sold me the sch tools because I am such a
IMO
Hi, all;
A client is having trouble locating a reasonably priced assembly
house for a precision analog PCI card having fairly high density
and requiring scrupulous attention to processing cleanliness.
Board has a few 19mil lead pitch chips along with 26mil and
larger chips, and about 30% throughh
Mattias Ericson wrote
>Often a > customer wanted to get for example 5 schematics and 1 pcb.
Eventually they
> changed and it was possible to sell and upgrade individual packages.
Not only is that, there are still customers and small companies out there
that want only schematic capture tools at
If there were a service pack 7 that also included some long requested new
features that are now included in DXP, I would be much more inclined to pay
for SP7 than for DXP. DXP is promising in some areas, but completely
useless for me in it's current state. I fail to understand why Altium had
to
We have 3 schematic licences for our 3 designers and a full Protel licence
for our PCB designer.
All 4 having full licences (schematic, PCB, simulator, PLD) would be waste
of money.
Never used or even ever had the slightest inclination to use, slightest
customer request to use, or even felt the
One problem I am seriously encountering here, is with my management in
explaining exactly what ATS (or even the DXP upgrade) will buy them.
They like to see a quote for exactly what they are buying (and delivery
dates), spend the money and have something delivered for their money. They
are worrie
I would be for an SP7,
however I think it more important that
Altium very clearly define their support
strategy for 99SE, which I do not believe they have.
Have they actually released an end of support
date for 99SE?? If not they need to do so.
I realize in a perfect world they would love
to have
Hi Mike,
You have a very good point. We were reseller for Protel in Sweden until
December 2001. We argued a lot about this because we wanted to be able to
sell them separately as that was the need of our customers. Often a
customer wanted to get for example 5 schematics and 1 pcb. Eventual
Not only did I pay for it . They will take my ATS money to future develop
things I don't want... then charge me for them again when they sell it to
me. OH my! I hear voices from graveyard disgruntled ACCEL users saying
the same thing before ACCEL died while under their last management team.
JaMi,
I support your views on another service pack. There are several long-known
bugs, which should be fixed as far as possible. M$ still delivers service
packs for Win2K, although Win XP is the product sold today. Altium should
do the same.
Mit freundlichem Gruß
Kind regards
Gisbert Auge
N.A.
Amen
- Original Message -
From: "Andrew Jenkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'Protel EDA Forum'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 8:12 AM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Service Pack 7 - or free DXP
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Michael Reagan (EDSI) [mailto:[EMAIL PRO
> -Original Message-
> From: Michael Reagan (EDSI) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
I use 1/5 of
> the Protel tool
> set but paid for all of itI don't want their
> autorouter, their
> PLD tools etc. So why should I have to pay for them? Most
> likely, I will
> have to pay for the f
Well said Mike
- Original Message -
From: "Michael Reagan (EDSI)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 10:42 AM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Service Pack 7 - or free DXP
> Jami.
>
> I don't think you will get any response from Altium. The
Jami.
I don't think you will get any response from Altium. They have moved in
their own direction apart from customer requirements. I just wanted to add
to your list.
Several years ago all I wanted was the PCB tools upgrade. No Schematic, no
PLD, no Simulation, nothing else but PCB. The sal
Hello JaMi,
the effect you describe
>This time, however, rather than wait for Protel to load, I hit the
>"minimize" button while it still has its little Protel "Logo Box" in the
>center of the screen, and is starting to load files, and it dissappears
into
>the taskbar, so I can launch PowerDesk
There is a way around this bug.
Open the Client99SE.ini file with a text editor (windows or WINNT
directory), find the entry DisplaySplashScreen=True, and change it to
False.
Protel will not show the logo on startup, and the minimise bug will
disappear.
Mike.
> -Original Message-
> From: JaMi Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Friday, 30 August 2002 4:20 PM
> To: Protel EDA Forum
> Subject: [PEDA] Bizzare and Repeatable
>
>
> This time, however, rather than wait for Protel to load, I hit the
> "minimize" button while it still has its li
Aren't we about due for Service Pack 7 for Protel 99 SE?
DXP, even by the most expert opinions, is not ready for "Prime Time" yet,
and it appears that most people are saying that it will be about a year
before it is really ready. (See the Altium DXP forum for more on that
issue.)
There is the a
Tanks for the Infos that no one has a solution for that, so i guess protel
cannot handle this
Like Dennis already said, we also have mech1 for the real board outline and
the keepout just to make the router happy and control some stuff the way it
is layouted.
> -Original Message-
>
I'm running P99SE SP6 on an IBM NetVista 6648 with a Pentium III 866 with
128M of memory (yes I know I need more), and W2K PRO SP2, and Office 2K PRO
SP2, Internet Explorer 5.5, all recently installed from Scratch.
I have a Logitech Mouse and Mouseware, and an external Parallel Port CD Rom
R/W.
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