Re: [silk] FW: [IP] Professor Sues Students For Questioning Her Opinions

Abhishek Hazra [12/05/08 22:49 +0530]: re: "science studies" what kind of works did you roughly have in mind? the kind of stuff that gets done in STS departments? Bruno Latour-ish stuff? sociology of a biology lab etc Let's say STS departments? Or all the above, as the mood takes you.

Re: [silk] FW: [IP] Professor Sues Students For Questioning Her Opinions

Would you say pure science / pure math people would appreciate postmodernism and science studies more? re: "science studies" what kind of works did you roughly have in mind? the kind of stuff that gets done in STS departments? Bruno Latour-ish stuff? sociology of a biology lab etc On Mon, May 12,

Re: [silk] FW: [IP] Professor Sues Students For Questioning Her Opinions

Perry E. Metzger [12/05/08 11:37 -0400]: analysis, however. I draw a large distinction between Shakespeare and the mounds of masters theses written about him that moulder in college filing cabinets. Clear examples of genius, mangled to death by mediocre and hair splitting criticism and analysis

Re: [silk] FW: [IP] Professor Sues Students For Questioning Her Opinions

"Aadisht Khanna" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> They are indeed wonderful things. The world would be darker without >> art. I am not sure it would be darker without professional art >> analysis, however. I draw a large distinction between Shakespeare and >> the mounds of masters theses written abo

Re: [silk] FW: [IP] Professor Sues Students For Questioning Her Opinions

"Christopher M. Kelty" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > okay, but then we are talking about professionals, not academics whose > bread and butter is supposed to be research (which is, incidentally, > what the author identifies himself as in the first sentence). Better > to compare them with doctors

Re: [silk] FW: [IP] Professor Sues Students For Questioning Her Opinions

> They are indeed wonderful things. The world would be darker without > art. I am not sure it would be darker without professional art > analysis, however. I draw a large distinction between Shakespeare and > the mounds of masters theses written about him that moulder in college > filing cabinets.

Re: [silk] FW: [IP] Professor Sues Students For Questioning Her Opinions

Suresh Ramasubramanian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Well, some people just love broccoli. Just like some people think > mathematics is beautiful. There is great beauty in mathematics, but unfortunately most of it is hard to appreciate without a lot of exposure. Still, you can successfully explai

Re: [silk] FW: [IP] Professor Sues Students For Questioning Her Opinions

"Christopher M. Kelty" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > dude, did you fail your english lit class or something? Nope. Got excellent grades in all my humanities classes, though I'll admit that I did it by studying the professors rather than studying the material. Most professors in the humanities do

Re: [silk] FW: [IP] Professor Sues Students For Questioning Her Opinions

On Monday 12 May 2008, Christopher M. Kelty wrote: > dude, did you fail your english lit class or something? I've never > seen so much resentment in one post. Sorry for being such a parasite > on society. Ha! Don't worry Christopher, as boondoggles go, you guys barely register as a blip of %GDP.

Re: [silk] FW: [IP] Professor Sues Students For Questioning Her Opinions

Christopher M. Kelty [12/05/08 10:03 -0500]: dude, did you fail your english lit class or something? I've never seen so much resentment in one post. Sorry for being such a parasite on society. Usually people on this list want to kill all the lawyers Well, some people just love broccoli. Just

Re: [silk] FW: [IP] Professor Sues Students For Questioning Her Opinions

all this humanities bashing and "accessibility" talk is giving me the Alan Sokal déjà vu :) On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 8:33 PM, Christopher M. Kelty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > dude, did you fail your english lit class or something? I've never > seen so much resentment in one post. Sorry for bein

Re: [silk] FW: [IP] Professor Sues Students For Questioning Her Opinions

On Monday 12 May 2008, Perry E. Metzger wrote: [snip] > had to pass a very high barrier in order to do so. It is not clear > that society was radically worse off as a result. It depends on your metrics for "radically worse off." In my own value system, a world in which there is more study of phi

Re: [silk] FW: [IP] Professor Sues Students For Questioning Her Opinions

dude, did you fail your english lit class or something? I've never seen so much resentment in one post. Sorry for being such a parasite on society. Usually people on this list want to kill all the lawyers :) ck On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 10:10:42AM -0400, Perry E. Metzger wrote: > > "Christophe

Re: [silk] FW: [IP] Professor Sues Students For Questioning Her Opinions

okay, but then we are talking about professionals, not academics whose bread and butter is supposed to be research (which is, incidentally, what the author identifies himself as in the first sentence). Better to compare them with doctors and lawyers, than academics... why wouldn't nanotechnologis

Re: [silk] FW: [IP] Professor Sues Students For Questioning Her Opinions

"Christopher M. Kelty" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > fair enough. so too parts of engineering are totally insular and > unable to explain their ideas to outsiders. To say nothing of > physics, chemistry, mathematics or biology... and so on. Unfortunately, it often takes years of hard work to re

Re: [silk] FW: [IP] Professor Sues Students For Questioning Her Opinions

On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 09:00:50AM -0500, Christopher M. Kelty wrote: > first and academics second... so I guess it depends on how you > draw the lines around the "academic" world vs. the professional > world-- what would "professional" humanities designate? If there were > such a thing, perhaps t

Re: [silk] FW: [IP] Professor Sues Students For Questioning Her Opinions

"Christopher M. Kelty" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > I mean do you really thing that people in the humanities are > somehow more disconnected from reality and commercial pressure than > engineers or scientists? I actually do think that. The study of, say, literature, is not particularly demanded

Re: [silk] FW: [IP] Professor Sues Students For Questioning Her Opinions

On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 05:54:09AM -0700, Rishab Ghosh wrote: > > one problem with top posting is that it's harder to notice when some things > are missed out... in this case, i did say "parts of" the humanities :-) fair enough. so too parts of engineering are totally insular and unable to expl

Re: [silk] FW: [IP] Professor Sues Students For Questioning Her Opinions

On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 07:41:11AM -0500, Christopher M. Kelty wrote: > really? I mean do you really thing that people in the humanities are > somehow more disconnected from reality and commercial pressure than > engineers or scientists? I have no idea what exactly that would > mean... it's a bad

Re: [silk] FW: [IP] Professor Sues Students For Questioning Her Opinions

really? I mean do you really thing that people in the humanities are somehow more disconnected from reality and commercial pressure than engineers or scientists? I have no idea what exactly that would mean... it's a bad generalization. The humanities today are more like (US) reality than ever b

Re: [silk] FW: [IP] Professor Sues Students For Questioning Her Opinions

On Thu, 2008-05-08 at 07:10 +0530, Udhay Shankar N wrote: > Just tying this thread into a recursive loop: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/silk-list/message/12241 i liked chip morningstar's comment about the need for technical scientists to ensure that their field is understood by non-specialis

Re: [silk] FW: [IP] Professor Sues Students For Questioning Her Opinions

On Wed, 2008-05-07 at 20:51 -0400, Casey O'Donnell wrote: > He generated rubbish, and editors, hoping to bring new people > into their conversation bit. Too bad, so sad. Alan's fault, or the > editors or the reviewers? Good question. > that a journal prints rubbish is clearly not the fault of the

Re: [silk] FW: [IP] Professor Sues Students For Questioning Her Opinions

To muddy the waters of this conversation some more, let me introduce a sociologist who, umm, fooled physicists into thinking he was an expert on gravitational waves. Prof. Harry Collins of Cardiff University also participated in Turing's test-like experiments where 'real' physicists posed quest

Re: [silk] FW: [IP] Professor Sues Students For Questioning Her Opinions

MAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of Christopher M. Kelty > Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 8:33 PM > To: silklist@lists.hserus.net > Subject: Re: [silk] FW: [IP] Professor Sues Students For Questioning > Her Opinions > > > no rigor no content no reason no clear exposition no evide

Re: [silk] FW: [IP] Professor Sues Students For Questioning Her Opinions

no rigor no content no reason no clear exposition no evidence and no verification. Yep. that pretty much describes my career to date, and that of all my colleagues. Funny we hadn't noticed, so thanks for pulling the veil back, Perry! I'll go drink that vial of HIV now and be a scientist! ck

Re: [silk] FW: [IP] Professor Sues Students For Questioning Her Opinions

On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 10:02 AM, Perry E. Metzger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > However, the way scientists approach their critical treatment of > science is rather different from the way the various "X studies" > groups in the humanities treat it. They demand rigor, for > example. Worse still,

Re: [silk] FW: [IP] Professor Sues Students For Questioning Her Opinions

"Casey O'Donnell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > So in part the editors of Social Text explained that they were trying > to bring scientists into their conversation. Unfortunately at that > moment Alan had the bright idea of playing a hoax, rather than really > attempting to engage with science stu

Re: [silk] FW: [IP] Professor Sues Students For Questioning Her Opinions

"Christopher M. Kelty" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > it wasn't a Derrida simulator. It was called Mark V. Shaney, and it > was a resident of Usenet. It would simulate whatever text you gave it > (could be Reagan, could be Derrida). I take exception to your > revisionism. I mentioned Mark V.

Re: [silk] FW: [IP] Professor Sues Students For Questioning Her Opinions

On Thursday 08 May 2008, Casey O'Donnell wrote: [snip] > Sure, perhaps that FAKE colloquium announcement is ad hominim (a > condemnation on this list). Though last I checked Alan was not on the > list. I understood that it was fake, and I use ad hominem in the most strict sense - the title implies

Re: [silk] FW: [IP] Professor Sues Students For Questioning Her Opinions

[shameless name dropping] Perhaps I should ask Rob. He's sitting about two desks away from me right now... [shameless self-reference] Perhaps I should ask Mark. He's sitting at my desk right now, and after digesting this thread babbles: I am able to take at face value everything else in your

Re: [silk] FW: [IP] Professor Sues Students For Questioning Her Opinions

> Just tying this thread into a recursive loop: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/silk-list/message/12241 Danke Udhay. Casey -- Casey O'Donnell RPI STS Department - PhD Candidate http://homepage.mac.com/codonnell/

Re: [silk] FW: [IP] Professor Sues Students For Questioning Her Opinions

Perry E. Metzger wrote, [on 5/8/2008 5:58 AM]: As I recall, Rob Pike built an automatic Derrida generator some years ago. Just tying this thread into a recursive loop: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/silk-list/message/12241 Udhay -- ((Udhay Shankar N)) ((udhay @ pobox.com)) ((www.digeratus.co

Re: [silk] FW: [IP] Professor Sues Students For Questioning Her Opinions

it wasn't a Derrida simulator. It was called Mark V. Shaney, and it was a resident of Usenet. It would simulate whatever text you gave it (could be Reagan, could be Derrida). I take exception to your revisionism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_V_Shaney You may be thinking of Shaney's ver

Re: [silk] FW: [IP] Professor Sues Students For Questioning Her Opinions

On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 10:42 AM, Casey O'Donnell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 8:38 PM, Charles Haynes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Really? Even "unable to get actual experts to distinguish the Markov > > generator texts from actual Derrida?" > > *Realizes current compa

Re: [silk] FW: [IP] Professor Sues Students For Questioning Her Opinions

Casey: So in part the editors of Social Text explained that they were trying > to bring scientists into their conversation. Unfortunately at that > moment Alan had the bright idea of playing a hoax, rather than really > attempting to engage with science studies. Oddly, the same mistake > science s

Re: [silk] FW: [IP] Professor Sues Students For Questioning Her Opinions

On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 8:41 PM, Sirtaj Singh Kang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Thursday 08 May 2008, Casey O'Donnell wrote: > [snip] > > > "For when you look into the abyss...": Reflections on an Intellectual > > Life That Came and Went in 15 Minutes > > Prof. Alan Sokal, Department of Phy

Re: [silk] FW: [IP] Professor Sues Students For Questioning Her Opinions

On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 8:38 PM, Charles Haynes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Really? Even "unable to get actual experts to distinguish the Markov > generator texts from actual Derrida?" *Realizes current company, and unlike Dr. Venkatesan choses to not explode.* Casey -- Casey O'Donnell RPI ST

Re: [silk] FW: [IP] Professor Sues Students For Questioning Her Opinions

On Thursday 08 May 2008, Casey O'Donnell wrote: [snip] > "For when you look into the abyss...": Reflections on an Intellectual > Life That Came and Went in 15 Minutes > Prof. Alan Sokal, Department of Physics, NYU > (PDF Available on request, beautiful mock-up) I'm sorry, I am able to take at fac

Re: [silk] FW: [IP] Professor Sues Students For Questioning Her Opinions

On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 10:36 AM, Casey O'Donnell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 8:28 PM, Perry E. Metzger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > As I recall, Rob Pike built an automatic Derrida generator some years > > ago. It used Markov Chains to produce texts with roughly the sa

Re: [silk] FW: [IP] Professor Sues Students For Questioning Her Opinions

On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 8:28 PM, Perry E. Metzger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > As I recall, Rob Pike built an automatic Derrida generator some years > ago. It used Markov Chains to produce texts with roughly the same word > structure and vocabulary as Derrida, but the machine was driving the > c

Re: [silk] FW: [IP] Professor Sues Students For Questioning Her Opinions

"Casey O'Donnell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 4:19 PM, Perry E. Metzger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> "Casey O'Donnell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> > Since I just got my PhD in STS (Science and Technology Studies) I feel >> > compelled to respond about this, in pa

Re: [silk] FW: [IP] Professor Sues Students For Questioning Her Opinions

On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 4:19 PM, Perry E. Metzger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > "Casey O'Donnell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Since I just got my PhD in STS (Science and Technology Studies) I feel > > compelled to respond about this, in part because it makes "science > > studies" and "postm

Re: [silk] FW: [IP] Professor Sues Students For Questioning Her Opinions

On Thursday 08 May 2008, Perry E. Metzger wrote: > "Casey O'Donnell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Since I just got my PhD in STS (Science and Technology Studies) I feel > > compelled to respond about this, in part because it makes "science > > studies" and "postmodernism" look really bad. > > I

Re: [silk] FW: [IP] Professor Sues Students For Questioning Her Opinions

"Casey O'Donnell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Since I just got my PhD in STS (Science and Technology Studies) I feel > compelled to respond about this, in part because it makes "science > studies" and "postmodernism" look really bad. I think that the paper Sokal published in "Social Text" alrea

Re: [silk] FW: [IP] Professor Sues Students For Questioning Her Opinions

> mmentaries > > Dartmouth's 'Hostile' Environment > By JOSEPH RAGO > May 5, 2008; Page A13 The WSJ article is actually pretty bad. I'd recommend: http://www.dartmouthindependent.com/archives/2008/05/post-9.html

Re: [silk] FW: [IP] Professor Sues Students For Questioning Her Opinions

Lawnun wrote: > http://gawker.com/385255/ivy-league-prof-sues-students-for-being-mean- > to-her And from that article .. > [her] latest manuscript, A Postmodernist in the Laboratory." > > being something even the most hair splitting post modernist jhola + > kurta + beedi JNU academic would bog

Re: [silk] FW: [IP] Professor Sues Students For Questioning Her Opinions

> > > and she finally acknowledged that a "class action lawsuit" for Title VII > violations was probably not the bestest way to go. > > http://gawker.com/385785/ivy-league-lawsuit-update > > Well, ok. She did... and then she didn't: http://dartlog.net/2008/04/venkatesan-drops-lawsuit-plans.php

Re: [silk] FW: [IP] Professor Sues Students For Questioning Her Opinions

... so a little digging goes a long way. There's much more here: http://gawker.com/385255/ivy-league-prof-sues-students-for-being-mean-to-her and she finally acknowledged that a "class action lawsuit" for Title VII violations was probably not the bestest way to go. http://gawker.com/385785/ivy-l

[silk] FW: [IP] Professor Sues Students For Questioning Her Opinions

Most of you already read Dave Farber's list so this is kinda like taking coals to Newcastle. But well, as there's an Indian prof (at Dartmouth, yet) involved, and as her behavior (at least from this article) strikes me as being something even the most hair splitting post modernist jhola + kurta + b