Agree
At 05:32 PM 1/11/2008, Jeff Steifel wrote:
Too bad Tom,
This has been at a very good thread. Different ideas have been
presented, hopefully some of the opinions hit there mark. Also
what's nice is that people are talking. It's been a while since that happened.
Tom Nagel wrote:
So f
Last time I checked this was a very conservative idea perpetuated by ignorant
soccer moms living beyond their means behind gates in the burbs... No?
Craig... PS. How did Politics get into Contest Format and uniform launching
ideas ?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:The "level playing field" is
In a message dated 1/11/2008 4:11:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
This modern generation seems to think everybody has to win. Cheat if
necessary but win. I don't feel that way. Winning isn't necessary but
competition is.
Great statements, but I think the
Too bad Tom,
This has been at a very good thread. Different ideas have been
presented, hopefully some of the opinions hit there mark. Also what's
nice is that people are talking. It's been a while since that happened.
Tom Nagel wrote:
So far I have deleted approximately 793 RCSE messages o
I was thinking about stretching out the wingspan on my skeeter to make
it a 2 meter..
Denny
Tom Nagel wrote:
So far I have deleted approximately 793 RCSE messages on the topic
of "Contest Format," without reading any of them after the first one
or two.
How about a new thread? H
So far I have deleted approximately 793 RCSE messages on the topic of
"Contest Format," without reading any of them after the first one or two.
How about a new thread? How many RCSE readers out there are deleting all
the RCSE messages captioned "Contest Format" without reading them.
This modern generation seems to think everybody has to win. Cheat if
necessary but win. I don't feel that way. Winning isn't necessary
but competition is. I don't look at who beat me. I look at all the
people I beat. Placing 17th in unlimited at the Nats with a Sailaire
against all the m
- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
The Munich F3K German Open had entries starting 12/1/2007 per the
spreadsheet. It was only this Monday that a note was sent by Phil
Barnes telling us that there were 85 entries already and if you wanted
to go, you needed to submit an app
we do here.
Chris Adams
> Original Message ----
> Subject: RE: [RCSE] Contest Format
> From: "Tom Copp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Fri, January 11, 2008 9:44 am
> To:
>
> Yes, I see the same thing too. The Europeans make F3J and F3B the F1 of
>
LOL.
Does this mean I will have watch the same dudes getting old and still
winning?
DP will have to think of new naming schemes, I don't think "Old Gas
Bag" will sell too well. Perhaps "Skegless" will. :-)
At 11:44 AM 1/11/2008, Tom Copp wrote:
Yes, I see the same thing too. The Europeans
I don't care who you are, now that's funny no gray cup in the Europe ,,but
true
- Original Message -
From: Tom Copp<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Soaring@airage.com<mailto:Soaring@airage.com>
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 9:44 AM
Subject: RE:
ting has been on the wall for years.. Its time to read the
wall.
Tom
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 9:16 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Soaring@airage.com
Subject: Re: [RCSE] Contest Format
A note in support
Is it the type of Society or contest formats that are changing the
competitive soaring environment? Overall USA Club
membership/participation is down.
From my perspective the Europeans have more vacation time and
spendable income than USA residents have experienced in over 30
years. Remembe
TED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ;
Soaring@airage.com<mailto:Soaring@airage.com>
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 9:15 AM
Subject: Re: [RCSE] Contest Format
A note in support of Tom's comments, I noticed that the Munich F3k Contest
registration open
A note in support of Tom's comments, I noticed that the Munich F3k Contest
registration opened up last week. I was considering going over and was trying
to organize it with some friends. The competition was full in 3 days 110
confirmed 15 on a back up list. I have seen this over and over i
Well said Tom !
Tom Copp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Wow lots of stuff here.
In general contests outside the USA are well attended. Contests attendance
inside the USA is diminishing. Why?
Outside the USA they typically fly F3J or a local version of F3J with F3B
winches that the pilots supply
Will it be, "I beat Gordy" buttons for everyone!?
Wow, I feel better already. :-)
At 10:53 AM 1/11/2008, Jack Strother wrote:
I think we should try this at the Next SOAR Contest.
Heck Buttons for everybody, we all show up and win,
then off for Margs !!!
Hey no equipment issues either
-
Wow lots of stuff here.
In general contests outside the USA are well attended. Contests attendance
inside the USA is diminishing. Why?
Outside the USA they typically fly F3J or a local version of F3J with F3B
winches that the pilots supply btw. They are strict about being on the line
in time; th
I think we should try this at the Next SOAR Contest.
Heck Buttons for everybody, we all show up and win,
then off for Margs !!!
Hey no equipment issues either
--
Jack Strother
Granger, IN
LSF 2948
LSF Level V #117
LSF Official 1996 - 2004
CSS Gold
-- Or
Guys,
Did I miss something in Tim's original post. I do not recall anyware in there
it mentioned anything about making it where everybody gets to win. I believe
somewhere along the way all you guys have go in your heads that Tim's intent
was to make everybody a winner.
As much as this group
Since it seems we need to make it interesting for the "next
generation" to participate in our hobby, perhaps we should just hand
out participation ribbons to everyone? Or perhaps the Top 3rd get a
Blue Ribbon, Middle 3rd get Red Ribbons, and the last 3rd or
thermalling challenged get White Rib
Hi gang, I just gotta chime in here.
I know Tim and have flown with him and the rest of the SLNT crew as
well as Tulsoar back in the day..I appreciate what Tim has thrown
out here for us to chew on..no one has said that anyone should
use this format in ALL contests, but it might
Message
Subject: Re: [RCSE] Contest Format
From: Jeff Steifel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, January 10, 2008 2:23 pm
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: "RCSE (E-mail)"
I think you meant zero the landing points, not the flight points.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
W
ECTED]
Cc: "RCSE (E-mail)"
Subject: Re: [RCSE] Contest Format
I think you meant zero the landing points, not the flight points.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Why not just have everyone fly for 10 minutes to qualify for a landing
> attempt with 1 meter concentric divisions like f3J. A
This topic always brings a chuckle to me.
Larry's idea is the only one (other than rolling dice or cutting cards) that
gives everyone an even chance to win with no regard for their skills or
equipment. If that's what you're looking for, that's the way to go. But who's
looking for that?
I've be
This topic always brings a chuckle to me.
Larry's idea is the only one (other than rolling dice or cutting cards)
that gives everyone an even chance to win with no regard for their
skills or equipment. If that's what you're looking for, that's the way
to go. But who's looking for that?
I've
Nope, I MEAN no flight points because you never made the 10 minutes to
be able to qualify for any sort of landing. Well..I guess it eliminated
landing points too.
Brutal!
> Original Message
> Subject: Re: [RCSE] Contest Format
> From: Jeff Steifel <[EMAIL PROTEC
up to 4
loops then wait 20 seconds and then 4 more loops. Scoring was obvious,
you made it or you didn't. The last round was tough as pilots pulled
out with about 4 inches to spare.
> Original Message
> Subject: [RCSE] Contest Format
> From: tony estep <
It's only a faster pace (getting a chance to fly again, that is) for those
pilots who don't/can't max. the task times, correct? If everyone is
maxing the task times than it is no faster than the traditional MoM format
if I am understanding these rules correctly.
> With bigger planes and their hi
Kudos to Tim Bennett for coming up with a new variation on his contest
format similar to one of his formats for HLG-size planes.
I agree with Dave Register's comments (see below). I flew in one of Tim's
Class-A Scramble events a couple of winters ago in Dallas (winter in Duluth,
NICE in D
I hope you meant zero the landing points, not flight points.
Here on the east coast, and certainly at the NATs, there have been days
where even the top guys will miss a flight. Zeroing a flight is
ridiculous if you don't make the 10, because even those guys would miss.
I assume you are talkin
I think you meant zero the landing points, not the flight points.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Why not just have everyone fly for 10 minutes to qualify for a landing
attempt with 1 meter concentric divisions like f3J. After all, isn't
that what it's about? Why not give bonus points for landing if
Original message:
...short of 10 minutes then zero flight points. Isn't that what all the top
experts do in each contest.
If you can't make the time, what makes you think you are good enough to get
landing points either?
===
Which suggests a slight variation on the 10-9-8 etc. s
e how I
know... :)
Jim
Jim Monaco
Rocky Mountain Soaring Association
Denver, CO
http://www.rmsadenver.com
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 2:25 PM
To: RCSE (E-mail)
Subject: RE: [RCSE] Contest Format
Why not just
Why not just have everyone fly for 10 minutes to qualify for a landing
attempt with 1 meter concentric divisions like f3J. After all, isn't
that what it's about? Why not give bonus points for landing if they are
within 2 seconds over the time. If they are short of 10 minutes then
zero flight p
Rick, Good Points... What kind of Cookies are We talking here. Larry Jolly
Here's a format that's fair to everyone and no hurt feelings at the
end of the contest.
We'll let everyone launch whenever they want and fly for whatever
they can accomplish. When they land we'll rub their heads
Tim, well done. I really like the idea and the execution. I might try this
or a variant at one of our local contests.
Anyone that knows me knows that I am a competitor. I like the challenge. I
love MoM flight scoring, and can't get enough of FAI style flying. What I
really like about this eve
Original message:
...To level the playing field and to reward players for not being prepared,
less skilled or less practiced...
=
At first glance it appears to do that. But if you think about how this would
have worked at contests you have attended, you might conclude that
Thank Heavens for the "DELETE" key.
RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and
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Tim,
I see and understand where you are going, and respectfully disagree. I fly
model sailplanes to compete and so a contest to me is a test of skills among
peers.
Like Golfing I work at every aspect of flying to improve my game in order to
get that edge on the less skilled, the less prepared
- Original Message -
From: Steve Schneider
To: RCSE
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 10:58 PM
Subject: Re: [RCSE] Contest format
Maybe we should just do politically correct soaring contests and not keep
score, like many kids sports programs these days. We wouldn't want to hur
- Original Message
...Everybody who caught the air
just flies past the target time and lands within the thirty seconds to collect
their ten points
==
Still,
you can have the odd situation where four guys make 10+, and one makes
9:59; if I understand it correctly, he gets
Subject: Re: [RCSE] Contest format
- Original Message
From: Tim Bennett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
...in a "real" contest, 9 points or less out of ten, which corresponds to
900 or less out of 1000, is a low score.
So what do you do when yo
- Original Message
From: Tim Bennett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
...in a "real"
contest, 9 points or less out of ten, which corresponds to 900 or less out
of 1000, is a low score.
So what do you do when you have a typical OVSS field where 4 out of the 7 guys
come with
Here's a format that's fair to everyone and no hurt feelings at the
end of the contest.
We'll let everyone launch whenever they want and fly for whatever
they can accomplish. When they land we'll rub their heads and tell
them what a great job they did and give them a max score. If they
br
hough.
> -Original Message-
> From: Marc Gellart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 3:11 PM
> To: Tim Bennett
> Subject: Re: [RCSE] Contest Format
>
>
> Tim,
> Good idea, and you had the perfect conditions for this format of
> MOM, but wo
ssage-
From: Daryl Perkins [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 11:27 PM
To: soaring@airage.com
Subject: RE: [RCSE] Contest Format
No need to even fly at the contest. Let's play paper/ scissors/ rock,
determine a winner, and let the drinking begin. Or no matt
27;t run that far in years.
It is all in the format of the contest.
Tim
> -Original Message-
> From: Daryl Perkins [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 11:27 PM
> To: soaring@airage.com
> Subject: RE: [RCSE] Contest Format
>
>
> No need to
n.
Screw that, get me a shovel... I love burying you guys... ;-)
Darylperkins.com LLC.
1600 McCulloch Blvd. 5B
Lake Havasu City, AZ 86403
www.darylperkins.com
> Original Message ----
> Subject: Re: [RCSE] Contest Format
> From: Craig Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Joe,
What a great idea :-) That's right up their with my " My child was prisoner of
the month" Bumper Sticker...
Craig
Joe Rodriguez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:Why dont we just award
everybody a first place sticker and a cool ride in the special bus just for
entering the joy luc
Tim,
Thanks for bringing some new ideas & concepts to our beloved sport. I
don't agree with everything you said, but you presented your case well.
Open dialog without egos and emotion based responses will do us all well.
Jon Stone
PS. Yeah, I know "egos and emotion based responses" are par
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 7:52 PM
Subject: RE: [RCSE] Contest Format
Jim Bacus wrote:
>
> "Shafting" the other fellow competitors by completing the task
> time? "Unethical?" ;-)
>
> I see it as maximizing my available flying time during
tony estep [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 10:53 PM
To: soaring@airage.com
Subject: [RCSE] Contest format
Original message:
Your heart is in the right place for club events, but please do not do
this at TNT...
===
Marc is right on. At a &quo
Maybe we should just do politically correct soaring contests and not keep
score, like many kids sports programs these days. We wouldn't want to hurt
any ones feelings, now would we?
On Jan 9, 2008 10:53 PM, tony estep <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Original message:
> Your heart is in the rig
Original message:
Your heart is in the right place for club events, but please do not do this
at TNT...
===
Marc is right on. At a "real" contest, this sort of thing is fundamentally
unfair. If everybody launches into the same air and one guy finds the air and
gets max, whil
a good job of working it, I don't think my effort should be
worth just a single point more than one of the 5 minute guys.
No matter what the format, it sure beats work :-)
JE
--
John Erickson
LSF V #122
> From: "Tim Bennett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2
Well Tim, you just lost me with your last comments. I guess the home town
crowd has gotten soft in Texas (was raised in Arlington). Here in OVSS land you
live and die to get the low save, downwind escape, faint read that no one else
gets. We are flying 6 to 7 rounds a day of 10-13 minute fligh
Absolutely... I agree with Jim.
Throwing dirt their way or being buried is part of the sport.
What if you didn't have man on man, the results would be the same
anyway. I'm not sure I understand why you would bring the pilots down
early. You actually compress the groups scores.
James V. Bacus
Jim Bacus wrote:
>
> "Shafting" the other fellow competitors by completing the task
> time? "Unethical?" ;-)
>
> I see it as maximizing my available flying time during a contest
> event, and playing by the rules of the contest attempting to
> maximize my score.
Jim makes a valid point while a
"Shafting" the other fellow competitors by completing the task
time? "Unethical?" ;-)
I see it as maximizing my available flying time during a contest
event, and playing by the rules of the contest attempting to maximize my score.
At 07:16 PM 1/9/2008, Chuck Anderson wrote:
I never liked t
At 06:29 PM 1/9/2008, you wrote:
Interesting twist on seeded MoM. But one of the things I always
enjoyed in this contest format was getting a good "burial" in a contest. Jim
This is the thing I hate most about MOM. I never liked the idea of
shafting a fellow competitor. It always seemed to
At 02:40 PM 1/9/2008, Tim Bennett wrote:
The pace of the contest is improved because once there is only one in the
air, there is no value in continuing to fly so the winner lands and the next
group can fly. No burying the group while everyone waits. Timers are
required to communicate about the t
This past November, I was contest director for a monthly contest of the
Soaring League of North Texas at which I tried out a new format for
Man-on-Man competition. It was well received. The format addresses a few of
my pet peeves about soaring contests. I offer this description in the hopes
that re
An elephant is a mouse designed by a committee. All FAI contests are
designed by committees. :-)
Chuck Anderson
RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be se
Ladies and Gents,
I will be CD'ing a pylon race next month for the first time. I would
love to hear advice for running a smooth event. Our club is pretty small
so I expect no more than ten flyers. I was planning to have two classes:
48 inches and 60 inches.
I remember a big hullaballu awhile
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