Re: HVLS Fan clearance

I doubt referring to the obstruction diagrams in 13 would hold up Steve, since regular obstructions don't affect the ceiling jet/floor jet/spray pattern interaction like BAFs do. We all know it should be fine, but AHJs need something black and white to hang their hate on. Is there a problem

Re: Process

4-10 Roland! I'll try to ship up or shape out. Brad Quoting Roland Huggins : As a matter of process, there is no need (and dare I say desire) fro the entire Forum to see a request to contact someone off Forum. Just copy THEIR email address from the received message and send it. Roland H

Re: Fire Proofing joists

I can Kyle, a Standard has to apply to the anticipated majority of real world cases, with numbers. Very smart and experienced people have filled a box with every conceivable thing that could happen, jiggled it around, poured it out on a table, and said, "best to try this in that case". It

Re: Fire Proofing joists

Obstructed is easy- 4" deep, 7.5 ft apart is obstructed. Here's the paradox though; if that's what you have, max deflector is 10", whereas if it was smooth ceiling, max is 12"! Brad Quoting "Phillips, Mark" : Thanks y'all I will follow up with quality of the installation. Appreciate the inp

Re: Lamella Roof

In Sharon's case the max 'detector' spacing will be 15x15. I pointed her to 72 because it shows how to calculate spacing under dome roofs. Brad Quoting "Prahl, Craig/GVL" : Sorry but I see no sprinkler correlation whatsoever with regard to NFPA 72 heat detector spacing. Detectors have an

Re: Lamella Roof

May I contact you off Forum? If yes please mail me here: bcasterli...@gmail.com Quoting Matthew J Willis : Brad, we go back a ways. But., You know better than most that heat detection is second to water. You are trying too hard my friend. Simulation will never..., Ever match real life. Some

Re: Lamella Roof

You're Welcome Sharon. And for some reason I have no doubt you know the difference between the first responsibility (heat detection) and the second responsibility (putting enough water on the floor). Brad Quoting Sharon Alves : Thank you everyone. On Jul 24, 2018, at 4:17 PM, Steve Ley

Re: Lamella Roof

All I've got Sharon is to look at NFPA 72 spacing and position rules for heat detectors for dome roofs, since the first responsibility of a sprinkler is to be a heat detector, and 13 does not adress dome roofs. Brad Quoting Sharon Alves : So, nothing extraordinary? I’m thinking wood joist

Re: PRV

May I contact you off Forum? If yes please mail me here: bcasterli...@gmail.com Quoting Jeremy Blocker : Had a question presented to me today that I’m not sure about. During a five year inspection we need to flow test all the PRV hose valves. Running hoses through a lobby of a hospital tha

Re: Chatty exchanges

Even on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday Roland? thanks, Brad Quoting Roland Huggins : When directing an email to an individual, the Forum is not the place for it. Email them directly. ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firespri

Re: Excessive Vibration of Pressure Relief Valve

Tom, This is diesel engine driven but I was thinking about your vibration analysis comment, 'soft foot', 'natural frequency'..., and I flashed back on an acceptance test of an electric motor driven I had designed and got to witness. Owner, Insurance, AHJ, Pump Rep- everyone is there. Churn

Re: Excessive Vibration of Pressure Relief Valve

Well, nothing to share. For some reason the valve was not acting up yesterday like it did in the report. Another reason why I think it has something to do with the discharge pipe going underground and tieing in to storm drain. Who knows what size that is, how many 90s, how far it is to the t

Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: PRV after pump discharge control valve

"Just one more thing" ~Columbo~ Thanks Anthony for 'nice outside the box idea' comment. "sometimes it takes a Jimi thing just to keep me swinging" ~Dave Mathews~ With apologies to Tom Noble and Roland Huggins. Brad ___ Sprinklerforum mailing lis

Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: PRV after pump discharge control valve

I loved George. Especially when he was ripping me to shreds. b Quoting Steve Leyton : If George was still alive I wouldn't have had a chance to jump in. Steve Leyton (Sent from my phone; please excuse typos and voice text corruptions.) Original message From: "Mark.Phel

Re: PRV after pump discharge control valve

One of these days you are going to have to start using some formulas and numbers youself Steve, because like you said, this is a technical forum, not a who can blow their own horn the loudest forum. Brad @ Quoting Steve Leyton : Have you ever noticed that a single pump series can be applied

Re: PRV after pump discharge control valve

Thank you Kyle, it means a great deal to me for you to say. I was curious about the application too, and saw a 1250 gpm, 2600 rpm with a range of 69 psi based solely on impeller diameter. Both impellers would need to be purchased and certified up front, and every one having signed off on the i

Re: PRV after pump discharge control valve

This is very interesting Dewayne! You need a high pressure pump now--low pressure pump later, but since you have to keep the original pump you are thinking PRV on the discharge later. There might be another way: Replace the big impeller now with a small impeller later. I know how to make

Re: Sidewalls in Partial Soffits

The Casterline Heat Director Model A Matt. I'll get started on it next weekend (this coming week I have to finish a stocklist and survey an existing attic. Is it just me or has anyone else wondered why attics seem to need to be surveyed in the middle of Summer?) Brad Quoting Matthew J Wi

Re: Sidewalls in Partial Soffits

A final (ya right) fine point: The Standards allow for some leeway when dealing with existing buildings and systems so heat directors might find some applications, the most obvious being to replace any heat collectors out there. In the building where I work I see the max deflector distance be

Re: Sidewalls in Partial Soffits

Activation is my forte Steve, I know what I'm talking about. Brad Quoting Steve Leyton : I'll bet the "standard" is quaking in its boots. What, exactly, do you find lacking or out of place about this standard you vaguely refer to? That it doesn't make provisions for these types of obstr

Re: Sidewalls in Partial Soffits

I've never been so ready to rumble Travis, especially with a "standard". Brad Quoting Travis Mack : You can feel free to put your liability and career on the line for something like that. I don’t think it is supported in any code or standard. If I were doing the project in question I would

Re: Sidewalls in Partial Soffits

I agree "heat collectors" are useless for pendents Travis. I think this is because they were installed horizontal. If they were installed vertical, they would be "heat directors", causing the ceiling jet to dip down and pop the head. That's what we have here. Brad Quoting Travis Mack : Thi

Re: Sidewalls in Partial Soffits

Great point about what's not in the code Jerry- I see only WIDTH verbiage - nothing about length! Your AHJ mileage may vary. Brad Quoting Jerry Van Kolken : I have soffits over cabinets. The GC is asking if they can do a partial soffit just at the sidewall location to pop over the cabinet i

Sparkler Systems

quill pen ink is dry let the liberty bell ring declaration day ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org

Re: Sprinklers near Conduit runs Obstruction?

'Sweet and Donaldson 401 K'. It might have been Don Becker who dubbed them "Donkey Dicks". I know he advocated them to owners saying occupants would feel safer having no doubt the place was sprinklered. Brad Quoting Jerry Van Kolken : I thought I did space to the right equipment. I got the c

Re: Acceptance testing at working pressure

Mike, I would not infer 2 hours period based on the definition of hydrostatic test in chapter three-- specified pressure for specified time. For new it is 200 psi/2hrs. For remodel it is working psi/not specified. Disclaimer: This is me talking. :) Brad Quoting Mike B Morey : Colleagu

Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Origin of design density curves

Maybe Mark- I've never been any good at math myself. Thanks, Brad Quoting "Mark.Phelps" : One could state based on the complex math that is has a 100% safety factor. IMHO Mark at Aero Mark at Aero 602 820-7894 Sent from my iPhone On Jun 26, 2018, at 5:51 PM, "bcasterl...@fsc-inc.com" wro

Re: Origin of design density curves

I'm the same way Nick, and Bruce, I'll have to chew on this a while - like you posted a few years ago, "When the student is ready, the guru will appear". I love the last line of this article. I think it's where we're at! At the time, the UK and Australia was saying 0.05 was fine for schools,

Re: Safety Margin

Better late than never David. I'll skate on some thin Friday Forum ice and say I think the gridlock is in quantifying safety margin. The demands come from what scheduled systems delivered with top line pressures of 15, 30, 45, 60, and 75 psi 'delivered', not, "what minimum discharge rate is

Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Staggering ESFR

I'm always thinking about all the bright young people getting into fire protection these days Steve. Most of what I post is an effort to arouse their curiosity and to assure them that, for their entire career, Fire Protection has nowhere to go but up. Brad Quoting Steve Leyton : That migh

Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Staggering ESFR

For spacing it would be nice if instead of "L" and whatever that other one is and words like perpendicular we used x-y coordinates. Deflector distance could be z... It's a 3D world afterall. Brad Quoting JD Gamble : This was actually my mindset. And perhaps misplaced concern. Do I have to m

Re: Safety Margin

That's probably it right there Steve-- pipe schedules were blind to water supply. Thanks, Brad Quoting Steve Leyton : I don't think we can predict that Brad, but pipe sizes were much bigger in those days, weren't they? If I had to guess, I think the safety factor would be "more" if the a

Re: Safety Margin

My last two cents (i guess i started it and Roland is nudging toward an end): A calculated system is simply a reconfigured pipe scheduled system, i.e., make the second piece 1-1/4 and get rid of the 8". Before calcs,5 heads on 1-1/2" was 'right on the curve'. If that was changed to 4, how much

Re: NFPA Vegas Convention- sprks in elevators

Bruce, Twenty some years ago a city in Ks experiencing a highrise office space construction boom amended 13 to protect elevator shafts from sprinklers. It read something like, "Thou shalt not put sprinklers in elevator shafts". It was a compilation of original and cited reasearch that said

Re: Safety Margin

Napping on and off in a corner during one of these heated debates is the the last item on my bucket list Ken. I'd be grinning ear to ear from the time y'all sent me out with some cash til the time i got back with the coffee and sandwiches. Brad Quoting Parsley Consulting : Richard, If my

Re: NFPA Vegas Convention

I'm somewhere between torn down the middle and with you on this issue Scott. If it was required to estimate the water supply at the riser gauge often, as in with every required main drain test, I would endorse no safety factor-- the margin of error that makes me most uncomfortable is in thi

Re: Pump Discharge Piping

With the suction control closed, and everything downstream tight, whether or not the checks were fully seated would not matter, right? Brad Quoting "Micah Davis, SET" : 100% above ground. Micah Davis, SET NICET #124745 Water Based Systems Layout, Level IVDynamic Fire Designs Mail: mic

NFPA Vegas Convention

I didn't make it again this year. "Caputo" is the only speaker name I recognized. Anybody have any earthshaking epiphanies? ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforu

Re: the birth of the Hose Monster

Saaweeet!! thanks Tom Brad Quoting Tom Duross : The hose monster 2, the little plastic baby. I have 6 and they are the best. -Original Message- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of bcasterl...@fsc-inc.com Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2018

Re: the birth of the Hose Monster

Tom, Before it gets hot in her, (tomorrow morning) what is 'the little plastic tester'? B Quoting bcasterl...@fsc-inc.com: Yes indeed Tom. He started making them in a little fab shop in Kansas City, Ks. Since none of what he told me sunk in at the time I've had to read the brochure. The ba

Re: the birth of the Hose Monster

Yes indeed Tom. He started making them in a little fab shop in Kansas City, Ks. Since none of what he told me sunk in at the time I've had to read the brochure. The basic idea might be that the more you increase the flow, the 'heavier' the Monster gets-- it has a dry gallon capacity so at an

the birth of the Hose Monster

The following is really all i remember about what Phil B said about the when where and how of the idea: 1) when--waiting to board a jet on a business trip to Cleveland. 2) where-- Kansas City International Airport, watching arrivals and departures. 3) how-- he said something about Burnoull

Re: Ceiling Grids and Flex Drops

Hey Bruce! I'm trying to remember back to those old style yard sprinklers - the green ones with 3 bent arm , some little holes in each, spinning, with kids laughingly running through it on the 4th of july. Did those jump up and flip out when you gave them all the spigot had? Brad Quoting Br

Re: Ceiling Grids and Flex Drops

Newton's Third Law? After I fry this fresh cloud based sprinkler applet I'll check your math Allan and respond off Forum if need be. :) You know I worked with the inventor of the Hose Monster? He told me when where and how he got the idea. I'm the Forest Gump of this industry: *worked with i

Re: Drop-Out Ceiling Tiles

My best guess on why 5' max higher than they would be at the drop out level-- the higher the ceiling the longer the activation time no matter what fire growth rate is full scale tested. In this case there is an additional delay due to the sprinklers not being "sensitive" to the fire growth

Re: Ceiling Grids and Flex Drops

The last problem I had like this Richard was in Reno, 1979. A Corp of Engineers guy told me I couldn't use toggles in precast hollow core concrete panels because it wasn't metal lath and plaster. Since then though it seems like all the AHJs i deal with get smarter every year. Brad Quoting R

Re: Protective Cap

I used to turn in my papers here to the top dog teachers (with or without a shinny red apple ) with hopes for a gold star or smiley face on top- I don't hold my breath anymore. B Quoting "Mark Sornsin [FAR]" : Why do you hate progressive engineering minds? Mark Sornsin Sr. Fire Protection

Re: Protective Cap

As they should Steve! A good one would be able to prove the cup delayed the activation by 10 seconds, making the heat release rate 100 kW higher at that time than the control mode discharge rate was designed for. Brad Quoting Steve Leyton : And we used to screw 6” all day long. I’m not a

Re: Protective Cap

"The sprinklers are sensitive by their design." ~Matthew J. Willis~ A big BINGO in my mind. Brad Quoting "Phillips, Mark" : The system should be treated as live and everyone made responible for taking precautions. The make products like the attached https://www.coverdome.com/ Can be remov

Re: Protective Cap

Tell the other trades to stop making a mess every time the turn around Quoting Fpdcdesign : Concealer? On May 25, 2018 at 3:12 PM, (mailto:mphill...@jjkllc.com)> wrote: Not sure of the problem or the particulars. Have used these during construction before putting the system i

Re: exterior roof overhang - omitting sprinkler protection

I'm tired of my own voice Dewayne but I hate to see a brother flapping in the forum breeze. Too bad it's such an old edition. If you have to sprinkler it, and the attic system is dry, you could stub 1" (sloped slightly up) into the space to a regular sidewall. At least that would get rid of t

Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Water Delivery Times

You're welcome Mark. For some reason I just flashed on me and a wall, and Roland asking me if I wanted a last cigarette, so here it is: I should have said the remaining *air in the path* from the clapper to the open flowing outlet. From the weight densities I can calc the velocity of eflux o

Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Water Delivery Times

Happy Forum Friday Sir Mark! Weight density of water ~ 62.4 lb/ft^3. Weight density of air ~ 0.08 lb/ft^3. B Quoting "Mark.Phelps" : Am I the only one who wants to know where the "780 times" value is derived? Mark at Aero 602 820-7894 Sent from my iPad On May 18, 2018, at 3:53 PM, "bcas

Re: Water Delivery Times

What Ed said, but like Travis said, it might mean no longer a delay than as if it was a wet system. If you look at the traditional 60 second rule, and do some rough fluid mechanics for water vs air, you see 40 to 50 of that 60 is draining the air pressure from on top of the clapper. Once it o

Re: Hanger Loading

You gotta love the Technical Committee Members of old looking into the future and seeing Davine the hundred pound fitter with a hundred and fifty pounds of crank in her tool belt having to hang from the pipe she just hung. Brad Quoting Parsley Consulting : And in addressing Jerry's initia

Re: Non-Combustible Concealed Space (NFPA 13 2013)

i'm always ready to go toe to toe unless there is any paperwork involved b Quoting John Drucker : What are you waiting for. 1) Request a written Notice of Violation which requires the adopted code citation(s). 2) Review the NOV and determine if code citation is correct, if a) if cor

Re: Drop In Anchors for Seismic

Hello again. I found was I was looking for and it appears my fears were unfounded -- I didn't want to go through all the calculations satisfying 13 only to discover 'nobody makes it'. Like the chicken / egg question -- tc members write rules / manufacturers make things to satisfy rules. I th

Drop In Anchors for Seismic

Hello! This is not a pressing issue. I am having trouble finding manufacturer's literature for above subject. I want to know if, for example, listed for Seismic requires minimum 4000 psi medium concrete and minimum diameter and length to see if I can eliminate some of the options in 13 for p

Re: main drain flows

Must have been LinkedIn Nicky. That K ( kPa metric ) looks like Coefficient of Discharge = 0.73. If it's the angle valve I would use 0.62. If it's the discharge outlet I would use 0.90. This results in: K=52.9 and 76.8 ( kPa metric ) respectively. I always love hearing about how other parts of t

Re: main drain flows

Welcome. 410 gpm with 2" main drain 7.5 ft., 1 tee, 1 angle valve, 1 90 and 1 45. Same thing inch and a quarter would be 155 gpm. Brad Quoting Tony Cetani : Long time reader, first time writer.actually not that long I'm a fairly new designer. We have a jurisdiction where they require

Egress Window Protection

Fire Escape probably no longer required with new 13R anyway. Brad. ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org

Re: Perpendicular to Slope / Attic

Thanks Cecil. I just know what I've read; Back to backs stared out as previously listed extended coverage quick response -- they just modified the deflector for three different angles. They Did do activation tests though for things like, "if the fire is directly below the peak will back to b

Re: Perpendicular to Slope / Attic

What a time that must have been to be alive Cecil!. I've read for changes in full scale burns regarding height they raised and lowered the floor because that was only one thing to move and re-run. Is that true? Brad Quoting Sprinkler Academy - C Bilbo : Yo Everybody! Been a while

Re: Perpendicular to Slope / Attic

Thanks for reply Todd. If somebody asked me, "should the 8' rule be applied for parallel to the slope when the channels run end to end" I would have to say, "no, because the book don't tell me so". I gotta be able to cite numbers to myself though so I'll know in about a week whether or not I

Re: Sprinklers doing their job!

say what Quoting NSFD : it would be easier to just share the link without the hand wringing and giving away your political leanings. LOL. Virus-free. www.avast.com

Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Wood Shop Classroom Classification of Hazard

That sounds like something Sales would say Joseph, not an AHJ, TC member, or PE. It's only 3000 sf so you could quickly set-up the most economical configurations for both LH and OHII, give it to Sales and ask them which one they think you will be eventually be field checking and stocklistin

Re: Perpendicular to Slope / Attic

It was pointed out to me off forum the literature cleary shows back to back cannot be used when the channels are running end to end. (Thanks again Ed). So, should the same '8 foot rule' be applied for parallel to the slope when the channels run end to end? Thanks, Brad Quoting bcasterl...@f

Re: Perpendicular to Slope / Attic

I was glancing through the literature of one of the Specialty Attic Sprinkler makers (back-back at the peak) and none of the plan views shows which way the channels were running so the delay in activation for the rare case of channels running end to end can be neglected, apparently. The Fir

Re: Perpendicular to Slope / Attic

That paints a perfect motion picture Roland. So we space for 8ft end to end, not eave to peak. On the off chance the channels run end to end it might be a good idea to go 8 eave to peak too? I've modeled attic type head discharge patterns but it never occurred to me to try and gain a better un

Re: Height of overhanging Eaves/canopies

I'm pretty eat up Ron and Steve I know. Example -- I'm surrounded by daughters and son and grandkids and we are all acting normal (not a one of them is a Sprink)-- I slip away for a ten-twenty minute break and all i see is flame and smoke and sprinkler spray. Brad Quoting Ron Greenman :

Re: Height of overhanging Eaves/canopies

If there is a code about it it might adress the case where a room fire busts the windows out, looking for fresh air, starts raging up the side and is on say the 11th floor of a building with combustible eaves at the 12th floor level. Nothing wrong with an ahj whom would rather be safe than s

Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Exterior Play Area

I say when it gets to 2550 kW, stand back about 5 feet with a six foot stick and toast some marshmallows Quoting "Mark.Phelps" : One of the issues considered for sprinklers or not is in the egress and exiting. In a freestanding building with no exterior walls, egress and especially exiting

Re: Exterior Play Area

Travis, "I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together" ~john lennon~ . Quoting Travis Mack : We need a LIKE button for emails. So many times people get lost debating NFPA 13 criteria when the answer is quite clear in the building code. Travis Mack, SET MFP Design, LLC "Fo

Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Exterior Play Area

Actually, this is all i would do anyway, even if it was 40x50-- I'd call it "exposure protection" B Quoting bcasterl...@fsc-inc.com: I doubt this is a 20 ft wide by 100 foot projection John but if it was you could stub out ten or twelve light hazard dry sidewalls off the wet system inside

Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Exterior Play Area

I doubt this is a 20 ft wide by 100 foot projection John but if it was you could stub out ten or twelve light hazard dry sidewalls off the wet system inside -- 2-3 grand? to placate yourself, the ahj, and the lawyers if it all went south some day? ?B. Quoting John Irwin : Yeah I didn't thi

Re: Exterior Play Area

In Kansas we call it a 'carport', or if it is only open on the front, a 'lean-to'. I will admit though, ~2000 s.f. of this is kind of scary. Good thing you excluded it John (hopefully you had it figured but it was just the dif between 20 and 25% profit. b. Quoting Bruce Verhei : In weste

Re: Exterior Play Area

It dosent say those things because it's outside the building Steve. It's a shade structure, like you meant. Sprinklers would just make a big mess. Open on three sides and non-comb means no life safety issue and if that's where it starts it won't get inside before the FD gets there. These 12-

Re: Exterior Play Area

I vote no sprinklers required -- open and noncombustible- the rockinghorse on a spring is like a newspaper machine - there will always be just one of them- not one today and twelve tomorrow. Brad. Quoting Steve Leyton : 8.15.7.5. From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists

Re: NFPA 13 prior to 1969 edition

Thanks Scott. Yes, that does help zero in on when it went from open to closed sprinklers. I've recently modeled activation with and without a draft stop for 3,6,9,12,15, and 18 inch deflector distance, for 135F, 155F, 175F, and 200F Sprinklers 9" from edge of opening splitting the difference

Re: [EXTERNAL] NFPA 13 prior to 1969 edition

Curiosity Kyle- I'm still stuck in last week, tweaking the vertical opening discussion, which, I must say, you had an excellent take on. Thanks, Brad. Quoting "Kyle.Montgomery" : Is this just for curiosity, or do you have a project using pre-1969 version of the code somehow? -Original

NFPA 13 prior to 1969 edition

Does anyone have access to 13 where the water curtain detail still required open sprinklers (deluge)? I'm curious if the draft stop is required. Besides smoke protecting the opening it occurred to me the other day the draft stop would help form a 'wall of water' by blocking ~9 gpm, making it

Re: Vertical Opening

Quoting JD Gamble : "... a draft stop is not a viable solution due to head room "... my fear is these things being left open in a fire situation". When I got into fire modeling 12 years ago I did an activation comparison with and without a draft stop. I was curious to see how much longer

Re: Vertical Opening [EXTERNAL]

The vertical rules say when using sprinklers as the alternative something something -I'm away from my desk (so far away at home in bed). Confirm it! It's why I said, "I hope this makes sense" Brad. Quoting JD Gamble : Does that mean that the vertical rules don't apply for this opening? Get

Re: Vertical Opening [EXTERNAL]

You should probably confirm it with every one J.D. but it seems to me if separation (protection, enclosure) is not required there would be no reason to use sprinklers as an alernative for providing that separation. It's been ten years since I last designed, calcd, and listed a water curtain

Re: Vertical Opening

Is the opening required to be 'protected' from a building code standpoint? If it is, Then you look at the sprinkler rules, such as less than 1000 s.f. I hope this makes sense. Brad. Quoting JD Gamble : I have a situation where we have 900sq.ft. vertical opening communicating between two f

Re: Unsubscribe

Dear Thom, if you have not already, please don't pull the trigger-- according to Roland, if you do it right the process is fully automatic! I can't understand, after such a nice post, and being in your position now, why you want to call it quits. . Quoting Thom Heller : Ron, thank you…….

Re: concealed space less than 6" deep

nothing wrong- with green stuff flying out of a sprinks head bud i mean bob and ben-jam'n, i hope you know what to do now (i think 'reasonable degree of protection'... is in every ED). I know if I ever get another Motel 6 I will ask myself, "is this a 4 sprk calc or an 8 sprk calc?" Brad Q

Re: concealed space less than 6" deep

Thanks Ben. I looked at the book and searched through archives and it turns out the largest room in the thread I was remembering was a hotel room :) Brad. Quoting Ben Young : Bob, I see where you're coming from with this, but we've seen this in the past with NFPA (previously doing the 0.10

Re: [EXTERNAL] C?

The lab would not even need a biologist on staff Vince! They couldn't tell you what the C Factor was, but if they could measure the absolute roughness you could take it from there. I like Mark's idea of a mechanical tee coupon - send them that and they can measure the height/depth of the insid

Re: Calc' terminology

I think the words clean and dirty just refers to the density Steve, which you need to know to get from PSI to feet of head. 13 uses 62.4 lbs/ft^3 (it's not blatant, but I figured it out by rearanging other rules). Define 'algorithm'-- i don't see it in chapter 3... ;) B Quoting Steve Leyton

Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: Existing 3/4" outlets

It's a head scratcher for sure. One of those Occupancy Classifications that's hard to pin down with just words, then apply all the rules that go along with that vagueness. B. Quoting "Kyle.Montgomery" : Well, it does give us something to think about. I wonder, though, does the residential s

Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: Existing 3/4" outlets

I just know from reading about the earliest development of Residential sprks it was recognized how important it was to get spray high up on the wall. So 'superior pattern for residential' and 'far superior level of protection for commercial' are different pages of the same book. (and i mea

Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: Existing 3/4" outlets

Kyle, if there is even a whiff of Residential about the occupancy the listed res should be used because, along with the quick response, res heads have a superior pattern, wetting not only the floor but high up on the walls too (curtains, bookshelves, the curio cabinets full of Russian Shado

Re: Existing 3/4" outlets

I only found one maker of UPRIGHT RESIDENTIAL. I didn't see the npt, but K4.9 so probably not 3/4. Would a 3/4x0-2 sprig w/ 3/4x1/2 RC be legal? Brad. Quoting Matt Grise : If the system was previously able to provide OH2, is it a problem to have over discharge? Could you make sure all of the

Re: Existing 3/4" outlets

Does anyone make res heads with 3/4 npt? If so just replace the heads and let it overflow! The Standards only spell out minimums. Brad. Quoting Dewayne Martinez : I have a project that was originally designed as a OH II space that will now be turned into a light hazard residential exposed “lof

Re: Liquor Store

So far Bruce, yes. 45 years has not dulled Vincent's sense of humor (my first mentor- he kept me in stitches while instilling a love for this industry). This is a test post though -- I unsubscribed a while back- at least I tried. If it turns out to be like a failed suicide attempt I have to

Re: PA nursing home fire with multiple fatalities

'what-was-wanting' the challenge for the 'up-and-coming' i love you scot Quoting "å... " : Consider the waterflow test really was 90 psig static, 20 psig residual and 363 gpm. If the fire started outside, the elevation pressure loss to operating sprinklers is minimal (~ 4.5 psig); therefo

Re: PA nursing home fire with multiple fatalities

In other words, if all the ATF is saying is that the fire started outside on the patio then it did, and the Federal Prosecutors are moving on to other cases. If the toilets flushed the water supply for this hazard would have been enough to smash that fire-- if it had started inside. Maybe

Re: PA nursing home fire with multiple fatalities

Quoting David Blackwell : Yes, it had a sprinkler system, but also multiple fatalities... "In deadly fire at West Chester nursing home, what went wrong?" Updated: March 2, 2018 — 4:00 PM EST http://www.philly.com/philly/news/breaking/west-chester-nursing-home-fire-barclay-friends-sprinkler-d

Re: Protection Area of Coverage for Sprinkler

I say a beam only acts like a wall if you can't throw under it, and if the sprinkler is that close, the heat flow AT THE SPRINKLER, due to the beam is also OBSTRUCTED... very wall-like behavior. I could probably dig up some snapshots tomorrow. Brad. Quoting bcasterl...@fsc-inc.com: Oh geez

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