Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is a right mess

On 2015-06-03 02:04, pmailkeey . wrote: iD shows oneway=unknown if it's not set. If it's unknown, iD should not show oneway at all. I agree. In OSM if oneway=no then it's not oneway and the oneway tag should not appear at all. Here I don't agree. The only time oneway should appear is in t

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is a right mess

On 3/06/2015 6:45 PM, Lester Caine wrote: The discussion recently on how a 'university' should be tagged probably encompasses all of the circularity with the current tagging practice, and where the hierarchy of tagging could best be agreed. Campus area === landuse=university Some universities a

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is a right mess

> On 3 Jun 2015, at 07:00, Maarten Deen wrote: > > On 2015-06-03 02:04, pmailkeey . wrote: >> iD shows oneway=unknown if it's not set. If it's unknown, iD should >> not show oneway at all. > > I agree. > >> In OSM if oneway=no then it's not oneway and the oneway tag should not >> appear at all

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is a right mess

On 03/06/15 11:08, Shaun McDonald wrote: >> I agree that in every case where oneway=yes is not implied, oneway=no is >> superfluous (in a network design way), but that does not make oneway=no >> superfluous. >> > > There are some cases where oneway=no is useful. For example an area where > ther

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is a right mess

On 2015-06-03 12:08, Shaun McDonald wrote: On 3 Jun 2015, at 07:00, Maarten Deen wrote: I agree that in every case where oneway=yes is not implied, oneway=no is superfluous (in a network design way), but that does not make oneway=no superfluous. There are some cases where oneway=no is us

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is a right mess

> Am 03.06.2015 um 11:36 schrieb Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com>: > > landcover rather than landuse? (for woodland, grass, forest etc) there is a landcover tag proposal, grass is a proposed value, but forest and grassland are deliberately not, please use "trees" (regardless of any forest/woo

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is a right mess

On 4/06/2015 9:48 AM, pmailkeey . wrote: A value of residential here seems to need a key to identify whether it relates to a building or landuse. However, you suggest building=residential as possibly being redundant. In fact, I'd turn this on its head and make landuse=residential (with the

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is a right mess

On 2015-06-04 01:48, pmailkeey . wrote: On 3 June 2015 at 09:45, Lester Caine wrote: On 03/06/15 01:04, pmailkeey . wrote: OSM's k=v design is completely a serious and unnecessary flaw. Similarly are 'categories' like man_made', and 'amenity'. Why can we not simply stick to hard facts rathe

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is a right mess

In urban areas, it is common to have mixed-use buildings as well, with retail or services on the ground floor and residential units on upper floors. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com "Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is a right mess

> Am 04.06.2015 um 02:11 schrieb Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com>: > > No. > Landuse - a facility (what it gets used for) > The governmental authority here says an area is for residential use .. > They do that before there are any houses thus it is not just the area under a > building. No ;-)

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is a right mess

On 3 June 2015 at 07:00, Maarten Deen wrote: > On 2015-06-03 02:04, pmailkeey . wrote: > >> iD shows oneway=unknown if it's not set. If it's unknown, iD should >> not show oneway at all. >> > > I agree. > > In OSM if oneway=no then it's not oneway and the oneway tag should not >> appear at all.

[OSM-talk] OSM is a right mess (was: Craigslist OpenStreetMap Rendering Issue)

iD shows oneway=unknown if it's not set. If it's unknown, iD should not show oneway at all. In OSM if oneway=no then it's not oneway and the oneway tag should not appear at all. The only time oneway should appear is in the case of oneway=yes - and the '=yes' is superfluous. OSM's k=v design is c

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is a right mess (was: Craigslist OpenStreetMap Rendering Issue)

On Jun 3, 2015 8:06 AM, "pmailkeey ." wrote: > OSM's k=v design is completely a serious and unnecessary flaw. [...] OSM is 90% argument, 5% dead-end discussions and 5% progress. The whole is not a marketable product; it's not fit to be rated as 'beta'. Is this a significant cause of ex-mappers ? I

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is a right mess (was: Craigslist OpenStreetMap Rendering Issue)

On Tue, Jun 2, 2015 at 5:04 PM, pmailkeey . wrote: > iD shows oneway=unknown if it's not set. If it's unknown, iD should not > show oneway at all. > OSM's k=v design is completely a serious and unnecessary flaw. Similarly > are 'categories' like man_made', and 'amenity'. > Why can we not simply s

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is a right mess (was: Craigslist OpenStreetMap Rendering Issue)

Hi Mike, Please propose an alternative. On Tue, Jun 2, 2015 at 8:22 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar wrote: > On Jun 3, 2015 8:06 AM, "pmailkeey ." wrote: > > OSM's k=v design is completely a serious and unnecessary flaw. [...] OSM > is 90% argument, 5% dead-end discussions and 5% progress. The whole i

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is a right mess (was: Craigslist OpenStreetMap Rendering Issue)

> On Jun 2, 2015, at 6:22 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar wrote: > On Jun 3, 2015 8:06 AM, "pmailkeey ." > wrote: > > OSM's k=v design is completely a serious and unnecessary flaw. [...] OSM is > > 90% argument, 5% dead-end discussions and 5% progress. The whole is not

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is a right mess (was: Craigslist OpenStreetMap Rendering Issue)

On 3 June 2015 at 01:36, Bryce Nesbitt wrote: > Perhaps http://wikimapia.org/ will better match your needs, and offer > more peace for your family, property and pets. > Well, on Monday the 'prison' idea went out the window. Having me and my brother accused of ill-treating our mother - two , nay,

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is a right mess (was: Craigslist OpenStreetMap Rendering Issue)

On 6/3/15, Steve Coast wrote: > >> On Jun 2, 2015, at 6:22 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar wrote: >> On Jun 3, 2015 8:06 AM, "pmailkeey ." > > wrote: >> > OSM's k=v design is completely a serious and unnecessary flaw. [...] OSM >> > is 90% argument, 5% dead-end discussion

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is a right mess (was: Craigslist OpenStreetMap Rendering Issue)

Fair point, I meant in the context of the list, as I thought others did too. Steve On Tue, Jun 2, 2015 at 6:07 PM -0700, "Eugene Alvin Villar" wrote: On 6/3/15, Steve Coast wrote: > >> On Jun 2, 2015, at 6:22 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar wrote: >> On Jun 3, 2015 8:06 AM, "pmailkeey ."

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is a right mess (was: Craigslist OpenStreetMap Rendering Issue)

On 3/06/2015 10:37 AM, Tom MacWright wrote: Hi Mike, Please propose an alternative. He has been .. on other threads.. On Tue, Jun 2, 2015 at 8:22 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar > wrote: On Jun 3, 2015 8:06 AM, "pmailkeey ." mailto:pmailk...@googlemail.com>> wrote:

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is a right mess (was: Craigslist OpenStreetMap Rendering Issue)

On 3 June 2015 at 01:37, Tom MacWright wrote: > Hi Mike, > > Please propose an alternative. > I see an awful lot of good in OSM and I think it's a great project. I've had it agreed with another about it being such a mess - but the fact it's such a worthwhile project it's worth battling on with i

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is a right mess (was: Craigslist OpenStreetMap Rendering Issue)

On 03/06/15 01:04, pmailkeey . wrote: > OSM's k=v design is completely a serious and unnecessary flaw. Similarly > are 'categories' like man_made', and 'amenity'. > Why can we not simply stick to hard facts rather guessing what > categor(ies) an object fits in This is a bit like saying XML is the

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is a right mess (was: Craigslist OpenStreetMap Rendering Issue)

> Am 03.06.2015 um 10:45 schrieb Lester Caine : > > Just what combination is right for a single retail building with a > leisure facility on the ground floor and accommodation above? I don't think a combination of tags is the best answer to this question, it's rather a combination of object

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is a right mess (was: Craigslist OpenStreetMap Rendering Issue)

On 03/06/15 10:30, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: >> Just what combination is right for a single retail building with a >> > leisure facility on the ground floor and accommodation above? > > I don't think a combination of tags is the best answer to this question, it's > rather a combination of object

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is a right mess (was: Craigslist OpenStreetMap Rendering Issue)

> Am 03.06.2015 um 12:21 schrieb Lester Caine : > > The areas I'm trying to tidy up are small shopping malls which > have shops within shops on multiple levels ... with accommodation above. > A combination of objects is just what I'm looking for, but with > different outlines for each object .

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is a right mess (was: Craigslist OpenStreetMap Rendering Issue)

I don't get the problem with k=v instead of just v. There is a function called concatenate which solves that. We should move away from mapping directly with tags, and to a system like iDs, with descriptions that hide tags. For a database it's irrelevant if it's "oneway=yes" or "4658". All this ta

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is a right mess (was: Craigslist OpenStreetMap Rendering Issue)

On 03/06/15 12:02, Janko Mihelić wrote: > I don't get the problem with k=v instead of just v. There is a function > called concatenate which solves that. > > We should move away from mapping directly with tags, and to a system > like iDs, with descriptions that hide tags. For a database it's > ir

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is a right mess (was: Craigslist OpenStreetMap Rendering Issue)

On 03/06/15 12:57, Janko Mihelić wrote: > Yes, we need semantic meaning and structure, but I still don't > understand how do two strings help you with that. Key and value can only > help someone who is digging through a xml file to quickly help > themselves. But the true meaning of a k=v combinatio

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is a right mess (was: Craigslist OpenStreetMap Rendering Issue)

On 3 June 2015 at 09:45, Lester Caine wrote: > On 03/06/15 01:04, pmailkeey . wrote: > > OSM's k=v design is completely a serious and unnecessary flaw. Similarly > > are 'categories' like man_made', and 'amenity'. > > Why can we not simply stick to hard facts rather guessing what > > categor(ies)

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is a right mess (was: Craigslist OpenStreetMap Rendering Issue)

On 04/06/15 00:48, pmailkeey . wrote: > A value of residential here seems to need a key to identify whether it > relates to a building or landuse. However, you suggest > building=residential as possibly being redundant. In fact, I'd turn this > on its head and make landuse=residential (with the ex

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is a right mess (was: Craigslist OpenStreetMap Rendering Issue)

> Am 04.06.2015 um 01:48 schrieb pmailkeey . : > > > A value of residential here seems to need a key to identify whether it > relates to a building or landuse. there is also highway=residential > However, you suggest building=residential as possibly being redundant. In > fact, I'd tu

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is a right mess (was: Craigslist OpenStreetMap Rendering Issue)

Could you please move this discussion to the tagging list? On Thu, Jun 4, 2015, at 16:57, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > > > > > Am 04.06.2015 um 01:48 schrieb pmailkeey . : > > > > > > A value of residential here seems to need a key to identify whether it > > relates to a building or land

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is a right mess (was: Craigslist OpenStreetMap Rendering Issue)

On 04/06/15 16:04, Paweł Paprota wrote: > Could you please move this discussion to the tagging list? While some elements being picked up on are simple 'tagging' questions, it is the general structure we are discussing which in my book is the whole point of OSM. I think there is still room to discus

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is a right mess (was: Craigslist OpenStreetMap Rendering Issue)

On 4 June 2015 at 19:39, Lester Caine wrote: > On 04/06/15 16:04, Paweł Paprota wrote: > > Could you please move this discussion to the tagging list? > While some elements being picked up on are simple 'tagging' questions, > it is the general structure we are discussing which in my book is the >

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is a right mess (was: Craigslist OpenStreetMap Rendering Issue)

oneway=no is very clear to me and different to not having a oneway value at all. this way it means it was surveyed and it is not a oneway. maybe with lit=yes or lit=no is more clear that is actually adds something of value? greets, floris On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 2:04 AM, pmailkeey . wrote: > i