Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 6:00 PM, Lester Caine wrote: > I think the main problem is that there are well established guidelines for > various areas on mapping data at both country and region level but in may > cases even those rules do not harmonize. We need the several levels

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

On 24/02/18 20:49, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: Every country may have different peculiarities, but the general concept is the same: a road usually restricted to motorized traffic, typically grade separated and distinct carriageways. We’re normally using British English in tagging but this

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 2:51 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > can you please point to some examples? Are you sure about the other maps? > They often don’t show many different road classes on first sight (but they > have them and you can see it as you zoom in and out that

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

sent from a phone > On 24. Feb 2018, at 13:02, Lester Caine wrote: > > Since the classification initiated from the UK, that is still the base and a > motorway has restrictions that do not apply to a trunk route such as 'no > learners'. what are “learners”? I don’t

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

sent from a phone > On 24. Feb 2018, at 11:16, Matej Lieskovský > wrote: > > One last observation: > Austria, Czech Republic, Denmark, Germany, Netherlands, Poland and Slovakia > all use a similar system where highway=trunk is "motorway-like", with trunk >

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

sent from a phone > On 24. Feb 2018, at 03:47, Fernando Trebien > wrote: > > None of the > commercial alternatives to OSM have such artifacts. can you please point to some examples? Are you sure about the other maps? They often don’t show many different road

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

sent from a phone On 24. Feb 2018, at 03:47, Fernando Trebien wrote: >> drawn as a trunk road hints at all >> these changes. > > > You could also map it with lanes=4+foot=no+bicycle=no+agricultural=no > and let the renderer decide whether these things are worthy

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

sent from a phone > On 23. Feb 2018, at 19:31, Fernando Trebien > wrote: > > Assuming the map is correctly classified in Europe, I'm seeing many > fragments of motorways and trunks all over the map. Is this an > artifact of local definitions it is because

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

sent from a phone > On 23. Feb 2018, at 19:29, djakk djakk wrote: > > Don’t worry, when the official system is good, lik in Czechia, it matches > Fernando’s suggestion :) usually you’ll find several “classes” for roads by the public administration, according to the

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

In addition of the « traffic » tag, there could be the « importance » tag (already use for railways - regional or national), with 5 values : neighbourhood, city, regional, national, continental. The example of the trunk road around Island : traffic=low, importance=national :) djakk Le sam. 24

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

Yes, we should be able to tag secondary motorway or secondary motorroads. ( https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/48.8719/2.4496 - https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/48.57211/-2.82279) djakk Le sam. 24 févr. 2018 à 13:34, Fernando Trebien a écrit : > On Sat,

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 7:16 AM, Matej Lieskovský wrote: > One last observation: > Austria, Czech Republic, Denmark, Germany, Netherlands, Poland and Slovakia > all use a similar system where highway=trunk is "motorway-like", with trunk > either implying motorroad

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 7:08 AM, Matej Lieskovský wrote: > I mean, how can Brazil have > unpaved trunk roads? Does Iceland get to keep its trunk road when it has > only one city of more than 35000 inhabitants? Do we get to keep trunk roads > when there are several

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

On 24/02/18 09:30, djakk djakk wrote: There is 2 « independant » things in the debate : 1) trunk definition - what is a trunk, a motorway-like road - based on physical characteristics- or a super-primary road - based on the importance ? Since the classification initiated from the UK, that is

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

On 2018-02-24 at 11:16:22 +0100, Matej Lieskovský wrote: > One last observation: > Austria, Czech Republic, Denmark, Germany, Netherlands, Poland and Slovakia > all use a similar system where highway=trunk is "motorway-like", with trunk > either implying motorroad status, or being a prerequisite

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

One last observation: Austria, Czech Republic, Denmark, Germany, Netherlands, Poland and Slovakia all use a similar system where highway=trunk is "motorway-like", with trunk either implying motorroad status, or being a prerequisite for it. On 24 February 2018 at 11:08, Matej Lieskovský

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

1) Trunk in Czechia is "motorway-like". Feel free to document local conventions here: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway_classes Also, see this: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dtrunk#International_equivalence 2) Highway classification is not really a measurable thing.

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

Matej, you don’t have to answer quickly, you can answer one time per week if you prefer, the strong arguments will still weight well :) djakk Le sam. 24 févr. 2018 à 10:30, djakk djakk a écrit : > There is 2 « independant » things in the debate : > 1) trunk definition -

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

There is 2 « independant » things in the debate : 1) trunk definition - what is a trunk, a motorway-like road - based on physical characteristics- or a super-primary road - based on the importance ? 2) wordwilde trunk definition ? - should we have the same definition all over the world of what is

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

1) If you want to look at a professional map of Czechia, I'd recommend www.mapy.cz over google maps as that is the most used and far more detailed map. 2) I agree that the discontinuities are ugly, but they reflect the state on the ground. That section around Sulec is a trunk instead of a primary

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

Yes, but this rendering does not change when a road crosses a border ^^ djakk Le sam. 24 févr. 2018 à 05:43, JB a écrit : > There is something I don't get. > Draw primary the same color as trunk and you have no more « > discontinuity »? > In France, some commercial map (the

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

There is something I don't get. Draw primary the same color as trunk and you have no more « discontinuity »? In France, some commercial map (the most sold, I think) use a different rendering for trunk and primary, because you drive faster on trunks. I like it, I think they like it, because

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

As an exercise (and I'm curious about your thoughts on this), I found the main routes between place=city within Czechia (didn't have time to include cities in adjacent countries, bear that in mind). Here's the result [1] using the old colour scheme (motorway=blue, trunk=green, primary=red; with a

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 7:30 PM, Matej Lieskovský wrote: > Ok, look here: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/50.3124/13.8720 > The highway=trunk section is a bypass built to motorway specification. It is > not even a motorroad, because it is so short, but the change

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

The change is usually on the order of single digit percent per year, making even a decade old estimate much more representative than "heavy". Seriously, "traffic=trunk" obviously means nothing if we cannot agree on what "highway=trunk" means. Ok, look here:

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

Wouldn't the estimate change often? We usually don't like that in OSM. [1] [1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Good_practice#Don.27t_map_temporary_events_and_temporary_features On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 7:11 PM, Matej Lieskovský wrote: > A "traffic" tag sounds

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

A "traffic" tag sounds like a good idea, but I'd have two suggestions: 1) Can we find a better name? 2) Estimates are better than words. I can imagine what 5000 cars per day look like, but what is considered heavy traffic in (for example) Brazil? I'm all for letting highway tag only worry about

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

I don't intend to. But I still wonder why they are desirable. On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 7:06 PM, Michael Andersen wrote: > On fredag den 23. februar 2018 15.31.37 CET Fernando Trebien wrote: > >> Assuming the map is correctly classified in Europe, I'm seeing many >> fragments of

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

On fredag den 23. februar 2018 15.31.37 CET Fernando Trebien wrote: > Assuming the map is correctly classified in Europe, I'm seeing many > fragments of motorways and trunks all over the map. Is this an > artifact of local definitions? Or is it intentional and desirable? The "fragments" of

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 5:25 PM, Mark Wagner wrote: > Which one is the "best"? If it's the fast route, there's no issue: > both roads are already "highway=motorway". I think the fastest route is almost always what most people would consider the best. The exception

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

I would tag the amount of traffic (official count or estimation) + the width of the lanes (bidirectional with no hard shoulder ?) + an appropriated renderer to show heavy traffic + narrow road with a thin red stroke. Le ven. 23 févr. 2018 à 21:28, Mark Wagner a écrit : >

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

On Thu, 15 Feb 2018 16:14:42 -0200 Fernando Trebien wrote: > Landing on this discussion several months late. I've just heard of it > by reading a wiki talk page [1]. > > Since 13 February 2009, the wiki [2] criticises highway classification > as

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

We could start with Brasil, France, UK, and Czechia. But in France and in Brasil the trunk definition is not set yet ... I've started to use a new tag in Brittany : traffic ; low-intermediate-heavy-trunk, to show the amount of vehicles per day. Probably that in combination of other tags (lanes,

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

Could we perhaps start a wiki page to collect information on how every country classifies roads? Something like https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway:International_equivalence but intended for the global community instead of the local mappers? More detail and less non-english text. On 23

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

I'm glad it is not so much of a problem in Czechia and I hope it would rarely be a problem anywhere. In any case, the idea can be developed further. Matej raises some interesting points that can account for better classification. For example, we could add some bias towards regional and/or

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

@djakk: I'd rather not rely on some global algorithm coming to the exact same conclusion. Making the classification not match the algorithm perfectly (because it forgot to look at number of lanes or traffic light priorities or whatever) seems to me whole lot better than randomly getting roads with

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 3:31 PM, Fernando Trebien wrote: > Assuming the map is correctly classified in Europe, I'm seeing many > fragments of motorways and trunks all over the map. Is this an > artifact of local definitions? Or is it intentional and desirable? I

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

What do you think about changes of classification at country borders? Can this be somehow reconciled? Assuming the map is correctly classified in Europe, I'm seeing many fragments of motorways and trunks all over the map. Is this an artifact of local definitions? Or is it intentional and

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

Don’t worry, when the official system is good, lik in Czechia, it matches Fernando’s suggestion :) djakk Le ven. 23 févr. 2018 à 18:32, Matej Lieskovský a écrit : > Don't get me wrong, this system might work well for countries without an > official system, but what

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

1) I'd have far fewer problems with "highway=primary" being replaced by "highway=road" "road_class=primary" or something like that (making it easier to say "we don't classify roads here"). 2) I'm not going around telling Brazilians which Brazilian roads they're allowed to tag as primary. I'd

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

If we talk of harmonization, we have to look outside of Europe and the major industrialized countries. The highway classsification based on infrastructures such as motorways and trunk roads is not adapted to the majority of the countries or regions. In countries or vast regions with no

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

Don't get me wrong, this system might work well for countries without an official system, but what do you expect to happen in the EU? Will we have "highway=primary" + "class=tertiary" because some random road happens to be a shortcut? Or do you expect us in Czechia to use "class=II" while germans

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

+1 Administrative classification is not strictly related everywhere to signage, structure and access rights. On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 1:12 PM, djakk djakk wrote: > I know that « trunk » is country-dependent but why not moving it to a > worldwide definition ?

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

I know that « trunk » is country-dependent but why not moving it to a worldwide definition ? Administrative classification could be moved to other tags :) djakk Le ven. 23 févr. 2018 à 16:06, Matej Lieskovský a écrit : > Greetings > I'd like to caution against

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

Hello, I totally agree with you, the definition you provide, administrative-free, tends to the same osm map between countries. djakk Le jeu. 15 févr. 2018 à 19:18, Fernando Trebien a écrit : > Landing on this discussion several months late. I've just heard of it >

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

Landing on this discussion several months late. I've just heard of it by reading a wiki talk page [1]. Since 13 February 2009, the wiki [2] criticises highway classification as problematic/unverifiable. This has also been subject to a lot of controversy (and edit wars) in my local community

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

> > If we are going to have the consistency you want, the way would be to > downgrade the trunk sections to primary, because after all it's US 2, > not "Trunk 2". In the UK, it would be the A2, and unquestionably > primary. yes, that's what I want. Perhaps you should make your own render, and

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

What an out of topic festival! Phone models, routers, rendering styles, what else? Yves ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

On 24/08/17 15:16, Andy Townsend wrote: > No idea what router you're using, but a common-or-garden Garmin satnav > using OSM data is pretty much bang on timing-wise for rural routing > around here. > >> - and get my blue motorway, green trunk and red >> primary road back :) >> > I don't think

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

On 24/08/2017 14:18, Lester Caine wrote: The starting point is the raw data in OSM ... but when something does not look right in using that data just where do you start? I know my own problems are mainly how the data is used and if I had more time I would look to adjust the assumptions to give

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

On 24/08/17 13:15, Greg Troxel wrote: > I might experiment with a few roads. But people should not worry that > I'll do anything large scale (more than 30 minutes in JOSM, the unit of > editing :-) -- I agree this is complicated and not resolved. I view it > as an eventual step towards better

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

Richard writes: > On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 08:09:25PM -0400, Greg Troxel wrote: >> >> john whelan writes: >> > >> > As someone who lives in a city street with one school in the middle and one >> > at either end posted at 40 km/h with an average

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

On 24/08/2017 11:49, Richard wrote: it would become an OSM problem if someone decides to tag this road with maxspeed:practical=60. A router may then decide to route you to this route instead of some alternative that would be much faster for people who decide to respect speed limits at schools.

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 08:09:25PM -0400, Greg Troxel wrote: > > john whelan writes: > > > As someone who lives in a city street with one school in the middle and one > > at either end posted at 40 km/h with an average traffic speed of 60 km/h > > and over 100 km/h from

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

On 24 August 2017 01:09:29 BST, Greg Troxel wrote: > >My impreession is that in the UK, there were A/B/C/U, and then later M >were created, and I'm not sure when trunk happened. > The term trunk goes back long before OSM, they date back to The Trunk Roads Act 1936. On the

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

djakk djakk writes: > The thing is, I'm annoyed when there is a primary in the middle of a trunk > road (example : https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=12/44.3996/-70.9439) I haven't been there, but the notion that the road is fundamentally different in the primary section

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

Oh yes I forgot these tags that are set by default by the highway key. Like highway=motorway implies sidewalk=no (fun fact : an exception does exist : https://www.lyonmag.com/article/76367/le-pont-de-la-mulatiere-va-enfin-se-transformer-pour-les-cyclistes : the signs says that the bridge is a

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

sent from a phone > On 23. Aug 2017, at 11:54, djakk djakk wrote: > > I think there are five keys to tag a road : > 1) its importance in the network (super-primary, primary, secondary ...) > 2) its administrative class (motorway, mottorrad) > 3) its physical

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

I think there are five keys to tag a road : 1) its importance in the network (super-primary, primary, secondary ...) 2) its administrative class (motorway, mottorrad) 3) its physical characteristics (example : no at-grade intersections) 4) the width of its lanes 5) its surface The current

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

On 23/08/17 02:38, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > b) situations where the posted speed limit is off the actual context, so > that nobody respects it and the police doesn't enforce it It's not helped when some people in the UK seem to think the whole country limit is 50MPH rather than just a few

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

On 23/08/17 00:52, Greg Troxel wrote: > If I drag the start point NE just a bit it flips to the route you like. > > I don't have enough Copious Spare Time, but I'd like to see a way for > routers to export their estimates of time/distance per leg, and to match > that up with GPX, and essentially

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

The thing is, I'm annoyed when there is a primary in the middle of a trunk road (example : https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=12/44.3996/-70.9439) whereas in the U.K. this does not exist ... tagging rules should be as generic as possible, should not they ? djakk Le mer. 23 août 2017 à 01:26,

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

> >> maxspeed:practical should take dense account or traffic jams into >> account as good as possible. So far I am not aware of any router >> evaluating time based conditional restrictions but those could be >> used to take rush hours somewhat into account. > > Agreed. Or even live traffic. But

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

sent from a phone > On 23. Aug 2017, at 01:20, Greg Troxel wrote: > > maxspeed:practical should be a representative speed that's valid most of > the time. > >> maxspeed:practical should not have any values above the legal speed >> limit.. and if it had routers should ignore

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

john whelan writes: >>A typical city road posted 30 mph might move at 35 mph, I probably should not have said city, but maybe town. Around me, things are less crowded and the speeds I referenced are not irresponsible. > As someone who lives in a city street with one

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

>A typical city road posted 30 mph might move at 35 mph, As someone who lives in a city street with one school in the middle and one at either end posted at 40 km/h with an average traffic speed of 60 km/h and over 100 km/h from some high school kids driving to and from school I would prefer it

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

Lester Caine writes: > http://map.project-osrm.org/?z=11=52.149501%2C-1.577225=52.048797%2C-1.856918=52.258912%2C-1.619625=en=0 > > 43.4km 33min > > Dragged to normal route via Mickleton it becomes 32.3km 34min, but > anybody who uses this section of the A46 will tell you

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

Philip Barnes writes: > On 22 August 2017 14:46:33 BST, Richard wrote: >>On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 08:40:13AM -0400, Greg Troxel wrote: >>> >>> Two points: >>> >>> Speed limit does not describe the speeds that reasonably >>responsible >>> real

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

djakk djakk writes: > Yes Martin, I meant "physical characteristics". In the US, a road is tagged > "trunk" according to its physical characteristics, as Greg said previously > in this thread. That's true, but it's also the case that the roads that are (properly) tagged

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

Richard writes: > On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 10:00:07PM +0200, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: >> >> >> sent from a phone >> >> > On 22. Aug 2017, at 15:46, Richard wrote: >> > >> > called differently, but this is it: >> >

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 05:19:13PM +0100, Philip Barnes wrote: > >called differently, but this is it: > >https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:maxspeed:practical > > > Isn"t that going to be rather subjective? the number will be subjective. It is for the situations that can't be adequately

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 05:24:02PM +0100, Lester Caine wrote: > On 22/08/17 17:19, Philip Barnes wrote: > >> called differently, but this is it: > >> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:maxspeed:practical > >> > > Isn"t that going to be rather subjective? > > And will depend on 'time of day'

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 10:00:07PM +0200, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > > sent from a phone > > > On 22. Aug 2017, at 15:46, Richard wrote: > > > > called differently, but this is it: > > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:maxspeed:practical > > > yes, but

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

On 22/08/17 20:45, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > Generally it might be interesting to add a preference to routing engines > ("I'll be going 20 more than allowed where possible")? Actually that is a niggle with OSMAND ... it only allows a fixed over speed amount before warning ... what it should be

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

sent from a phone > On 22. Aug 2017, at 15:46, Richard wrote: > > called differently, but this is it: > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:maxspeed:practical yes, but practical maxspeed depends a lot on your equipment and capabilities, and on other people driving

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

sent from a phone > On 22. Aug 2017, at 14:40, Greg Troxel wrote: > > Another is in the US > where there are many roads signed 65 mph where traffic normally moves > at 80 mph. 80mph are 129kph, so I guess these are motorways or bigger roads? Maybe this should be fixed by

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

sent from a phone > On 22. Aug 2017, at 13:29, Colin Smale wrote: > > I don't understand why junction penalties should be dependent on the road > classes, and not on physical characteristics. I guess this is just a > heuristic which can be useful if you don't have the

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

On 22/08/17 17:19, Philip Barnes wrote: >> called differently, but this is it: >> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:maxspeed:practical >> > Isn"t that going to be rather subjective? And will depend on 'time of day' ;) -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact -

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

On 22 August 2017 14:46:33 BST, Richard wrote: >On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 08:40:13AM -0400, Greg Troxel wrote: >> >> Two points: >> >> Speed limit does not describe the speeds that reasonably >responsible >> real people actually drive on roads. The UK/IE notion of 60

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

On 22/08/17 12:29, Colin Smale wrote: > I would like to take a closer look at your example route... Can you give > start and end locations? http://map.project-osrm.org/?z=11=52.149501%2C-1.577225=52.048797%2C-1.856918=52.258912%2C-1.619625=en=0 43.4km 33min Dragged to normal route via Mickleton

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 08:40:13AM -0400, Greg Troxel wrote: > > Two points: > > Speed limit does not describe the speeds that reasonably responsible > real people actually drive on roads. The UK/IE notion of 60 mph on > all roads out of village centers is one example. Another is in the

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

Lester Caine writes: >> I'm afraid that you can't use speed_limit : on small roads, the official >> speed_limit is not signed but follows the default one (90km/h in France >> even on a lanes=1.5 road !). > > Single carriageway roads here are 60MPH out of town and 30MPH in

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

Did you try with e.g. MapFactor Navigator, which has settings for your preference of 8 road categories + maxspeed inside & outside towns ? Just being curious. regards m On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 1:13 PM, Lester Caine wrote: > On 22/08/17 11:41, Colin Smale wrote: >> I agree,

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

The road classification suggests a default maxspeed, in the absence of more explicit information. I don't understand why junction penalties should be dependent on the road classes, and not on physical characteristics. I guess this is just a heuristic which can be useful if you don't have the full

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

On 22/08/17 11:41, Colin Smale wrote: > I agree, classification should be largely irrelevant to routing. > Routing needs timings from node to node, which are best derived from > bendiness, number of lanes, junctions etc and then capped to the legal > maximum. A four-lane secondary, primary, trunk

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

On 22/08/17 11:16, djakk djakk wrote: > Lester, why the little "main road" was not tagged as a tertiary road ? The 'minor' roads are 'both secondary and tertiary' ... one example used to be the 'trunk' road A46 but is now 'secondary' B4632, so many of the routers using OSM data use the 'new' A46

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

I agree, classification should be largely irrelevant to routing. Routing needs timings from node to node, which are best derived from bendiness, number of lanes, junctions etc and then capped to the legal maximum. A four-lane secondary, primary, trunk or motorway will all have the same effective

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

Yes Martin, I meant "physical characteristics". In the US, a road is tagged "trunk" according to its physical characteristics, as Greg said previously in this thread. Le mar. 22 août 2017 à 11:06, Martin Koppenhoefer a écrit : > > > sent from a phone > > > On 21. Aug

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

Lester, why the little "main road" was not tagged as a tertiary road ? I'm afraid that you can't use speed_limit : on small roads, the official speed_limit is not signed but follows the default one (90km/h in France even on a lanes=1.5 road !). Le mar. 22 août 2017 à 11:16, Lester Caine

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

sent from a phone > On 21. Aug 2017, at 22:09, djakk djakk wrote: > > Actualy, "highway=*" shuffles importance and characteristic of roads. May we > add an "importance" key to roads ? highway is generally about grid importance and in some cases also about legal

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

sent from a phone > On 19. Aug 2017, at 21:29, Marc Gemis wrote: > > As you can see from > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway:International_equivalence, > trunk roads are defined differently in many countries. If you look at > e.g. Denmark, a trunk road needs a

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

On 21/08/17 21:09, djakk djakk wrote: > Actualy, "highway=*" shuffles importance and characteristic of roads. > May we add an "importance" key to roads ? Having spent the last week using OSMAND to navigate around the Welsh/Cheshire border area (UK ;) ), the 'importance' of roads is something of a

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

Actualy, "highway=*" shuffles importance and characteristic of roads. May we add an "importance" key to roads ? djakk Le dim. 20 août 2017 à 13:14, djakk djakk a écrit : > Well, it is technically possible, but I was thinking about performance and >

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

Well, it is technically possible, but I was thinking about performance and stylesheet-maintenance issues ;) Le dim. 20 août 2017 à 12:49, ajt1...@gmail.com a écrit : > On 20/08/2017 11:36, djakk djakk wrote: > > > > Why I want to do that ? To improve openstreetmap, this is a

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

While you can do that, it diminishes one of our most important offers, that we have a map of the whole world. -- Andrew From: ajt1...@gmail.com <ajt1...@gmail.com> Sent: 20 August 2017 11:46:28 To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Highway

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

On 20/08/2017 11:36, djakk djakk wrote: Why I want to do that ? To improve openstreetmap, this is a worldwide map and the renderer can't be adapted by countries. Sure it can - it's perfectly possible for a render to use a location-sensitive rendering (I've just done it myself). Best

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

I'm pretty sure that the use of "trunk" in UK or in Japan is about the importance of the road, not about its characteristics : https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/vBqrj5uGYBw05cd57g9TAg (this is the trunk road linked in my previous mail ; there is pavement on the right side) Why I want to do that ?

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

> So basically: please don't go adjusting roads in the US away from > established rough consensus because you think it ought to be different. or anywhere else I would say :-) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

> > So basically: please don't go adjusting roads in the US away from > established rough consensus because you think it ought to be different. Of course ;-) Le dim. 20 août 2017 à 04:00, Greg Troxel a écrit : > > djakk djakk writes: > > > In England

Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=trunk : harmonization between countries ?

djakk djakk writes: > In England and Japan, trunk roads continue inside village boundaries. > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/52.2685/0.7700 ; > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/35.6261/139.1128 > Trunk is used as a super-primary class of roads. Yes, but in

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