Re: [talk-ph] request edit for this month (coastline)

2009-02-27 Per discussione maning sambale
Caluya and sibay Islands On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 10:17 AM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: What are the common tags used for marine features?  The map features seems too land-centric (for good reasons) but I think for archipelagic countries we need to map marine features as

[talk-ph] Tagging marine features (was: request edit for this month (coastline))

2009-02-27 Per discussione Mike Collinson
I've changed the subject to avoid hijacking the original thread. As Manning suggests, this is something we the Philippines OSM community can take a lead in. So far, I've not come up with a very large subsea list. Over the weekend I'll try and dig up a list of what GNS uses and how I have

[talk-ph] Fwd: [OSM-talk] ODbL License + Outline Procedure

2009-02-27 Per discussione maning sambale
Please translate and pass on to the country-specific lists... Follow-up discussion best suited on http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk or the avenues discussed in this announcement. - The OSMF License Working Group is excited and pleased to announce the

[talk-ph] On public domain data in the Philippines

2009-02-27 Per discussione maning sambale
Eugene, I vaguely remember during our meet-up in Grappas that you were discussing something about the use of public domain data in the Philippines. You mentioned that data in the public domain as defined in the Philippines cannot be used for commercial purposes. Did I get this right? Please

[OSM-legal-talk] ODbL License + Outline Procedure

2009-02-27 Per discussione Grant Slater
The OSMF License Working Group is excited and pleased to announce the completion of legal drafting and review by our legal counsel of the new proposed license, the Open Database License Agreement (ODbL). The working group have put much effort in to inputting OSMs needs and supporting the

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] ODbL License + Outline Procedure

2009-02-27 Per discussione Iván Sánchez Ortega
El Viernes, 27 de Febrero de 2009, andrzej zaborowski escribió: What I don't understand very clearly (and would appreciate a clarification) is the license says that ODbL applies to the database and not to the data in it, and that data in one databse can be covered by multiple licenses. What

[OSM-legal-talk] Updates to ODbL related Wiki pages and outstanding issues

2009-02-27 Per discussione Peter Miller
I have been through the wiki pages that relate to the ODbL and updated them where I can. I have updated the name of the license to OdBL on all pages (I think). I have updated the links to the license itself to point to OpenDataCommons not OpenContentLawyer in all cases (I think). I have

Re: [OSM-talk] rights of way and designation=*

2009-02-27 Per discussione Mike Harris
Hi Actually, I think that's the beauty of the proposal. In England and Wales, a designated= tag like the ones suggested Will automatically define even multi-user ways as the law is quite clear on this. Thus Designated=public_footpath automatically means designated for pedestrians only.

Re: [OSM-talk] overuse of highway=path

2009-02-27 Per discussione Mario Salvini
Norbert Hoffmann schrieb: Mario Salvini wrote: So highway=path + bicycle=designated + motor_vehicle=yes is nonsense. If anything, it could be highway=track ... is not a so unworldly situation out there. And even then this is not the bicycle-street you talk of. Those

[OSM-talk] oneway yes or true

2009-02-27 Per discussione David Earl
I can't help feeling the effort that I've noticed some contributors are putting into manually changing oneway=yes to oneway=true would be better spent doing something more useful. JOSM's preset puts it in as 'yes' (and that's what nearly everyone was doing when I started). Who's to say what

Re: [OSM-talk] oneway yes or true

2009-02-27 Per discussione Richard Fairhurst
David Earl wrote: I can't help feeling the effort that I've noticed some contributors are putting into manually changing oneway=yes to oneway=true would be better spent doing something more useful. Eek - people are really doing this? 'yes' is English (and, as you say, in the editor

Re: [OSM-talk] oneway yes or true

2009-02-27 Per discussione Lambertus
True/false and Yes/No both give the same meaning to oneway, so there's only debate if the value should be leaning towards human- or machine readability. Personally I would lean towards human, shame on any programmer who's software cannot parse yes/no values. What would really add additional

Re: [OSM-talk] oneway yes or true

2009-02-27 Per discussione sly (sylvain letuffe)
David Earl wrote: I can't help feeling the effort that I've noticed some contributors are putting into manually changing oneway=yes to oneway=true would be better spent doing something more useful. Well, JOSM-search-type:way oneway:true A nice way to rest my brain. Who's to say what

Re: [OSM-talk] oneway yes or true

2009-02-27 Per discussione sly (sylvain letuffe)
True/false and Yes/No both give the same meaning to oneway, so there's only debate if the value should be leaning towards human- or machine readability. Personally I would lean towards human, shame on any programmer who's software cannot parse yes/no values. What would really add

Re: [OSM-talk] oneway yes or true

2009-02-27 Per discussione Maarten Deen
sly (sylvain letuffe) wrote: David Earl wrote: I can't help feeling the effort that I've noticed some contributors are putting into manually changing oneway=yes to oneway=true would be better spent doing something more useful. Well, JOSM-search-type:way oneway:true A nice way to rest my

Re: [OSM-talk] oneway yes or true

2009-02-27 Per discussione sly (sylvain letuffe)
Someone replied, asking: Eek - people are really doing this? You replied: I am I thought you were arguing for changing oneway=true to oneway=yes, which is the opposite of what David describes. Ed Ooops, mis-read that, but still my point stands, I don't care about yes or true,

Re: [OSM-talk] oneway yes or true

2009-02-27 Per discussione Elena of Valhalla
On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 11:20 AM, sly (sylvain letuffe) li...@letuffe.org wrote: What would really add additional information to oneway is: 0, 1 and -1. These values additionally give a direction relative to the direction of the way. Imho only 0, 1 and -1 are the true options for the oneway

Re: [OSM-talk] oneway yes or true

2009-02-27 Per discussione sly (sylvain letuffe)
If I'm then in an editwar with Sylvain We won't need that because I use yes/no too (mis-read the david email), , I hope we can do it face to face with some wine and cheese ;) but let me know when you'll come to France, I'll keep a bottle and some terrible stinking cheese so we can still do

Re: [OSM-talk] oneway yes or true

2009-02-27 Per discussione marcus.wolschon
On Fri, 27 Feb 2009 11:36:18 +0100 (CET), Maarten Deen md...@xs4all.nl wrote: Whatever it is going to be: it would be nice if the validator plugin in JOSM will accept this. Currently it's programmed to accept yes/no as a proper tag and true/false is flagged as incorrect. That's why I change

Re: [OSM-talk] oneway yes or true

2009-02-27 Per discussione Celso González
On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 11:37:30AM +0100, Elena of Valhalla wrote: On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 11:20 AM, sly (sylvain letuffe) li...@letuffe.org wrote: What would really add additional information to oneway is: 0, 1 and -1. These values additionally give a direction relative to the direction of

Re: [OSM-talk] oneway yes or true

2009-02-27 Per discussione Guenther Meyer
Am Freitag 27 Februar 2009 schrieb sly (sylvain letuffe): Who's to say what the right answer is when there is no right answer. I pretend to know and say (again) that the right answer is not to have duplicate tags for the same meaning. right! as a software developer, I would prefer 0/1/-1,

Re: [OSM-talk] OT: making heat maps and overlaying on OSM data

2009-02-27 Per discussione Tom Chance
On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 18:19:53 -0500 (EST), si...@mungewell.org wrote: Can anyone give me any tips on how to take a simple table of data with a figure for each coordinate, and turn it into a heat map? At first I thought of GeoCommons but it seems you can only use pre-processed data with their

Re: [OSM-talk] oneway yes or true

2009-02-27 Per discussione sly (sylvain letuffe)
no false 0 -1 all other values are ignored and treated as yes (why else would you have a oneway-tag). Ouch ! While using your software, I'll be extreamly carefull on the road ;-) Don't want to be droven on an undefined or other or maybe oneway Europe counts : oneway

Re: [OSM-talk] oneway yes or true

2009-02-27 Per discussione marcus.wolschon
On Fri, 27 Feb 2009 11:55:26 +0100, sly (sylvain letuffe) li...@letuffe.org wrote: no false 0 -1 all other values are ignored and treated as yes (why else would you have a oneway-tag). Ouch ! While using your software, I'll be extreamly carefull on the road ;-) Don't want to be

Re: [OSM-talk] oneway yes or true

2009-02-27 Per discussione sly (sylvain letuffe)
On Friday 27 February 2009 12:06, you wrote: A good way would obviously be to change the map features and then the mapnik and osmarender stylesheets. As much as we like it or not, the rendered map is a big incensitive to tag one way (no pun intended) or another. Renaud. Looks like Ed was

Re: [OSM-talk] oneway yes or true

2009-02-27 Per discussione Maarten Deen
sly (sylvain letuffe) wrote: no false 0 -1 all other values are ignored and treated as yes (why else would you have a oneway-tag). Ouch ! While using your software, I'll be extreamly carefull on the road ;-) Don't want to be droven on an undefined or other or maybe oneway Europe

Re: [OSM-talk] oneway yes or true

2009-02-27 Per discussione marcus.wolschon
On Fri, 27 Feb 2009 12:15:11 +0100, sly (sylvain letuffe) li...@letuffe.org wrote: On Friday 27 February 2009 12:06, you wrote: A good way would obviously be to change the map features and then the mapnik and osmarender stylesheets. As much as we like it or not, the rendered map is a big

Re: [OSM-talk] oneway yes or true

2009-02-27 Per discussione sly (sylvain letuffe)
The opposite is true. undefined it is either a oneway=true or not. True, we know nothing with undefined. In both cases I am allowed to drive it like a oneway=true and it is the safest thing to do Safety is not engaged in considering a default to yes, but that's what you could do on any roads

Re: [OSM-talk] oneway yes or true

2009-02-27 Per discussione Nop
Hi! Lambertus schrieb: What would really add additional information to oneway is: 0, 1 and -1. These values additionally give a direction relative to the direction of the way. Imho only 0, 1 and -1 are the true options for the oneway tag. Actually, it would convey less information.

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] ODbL License + Outline Procedure

2009-02-27 Per discussione Liz
On Fri, 27 Feb 2009, Grant Slater wrote: The OSMF License Working Group is excited and pleased to announce the completion of legal drafting and review by our legal counsel of the new proposed license, the Open Database License Agreement (ODbL). The working group have put much effort in to

Re: [OSM-talk] oneway yes or true

2009-02-27 Per discussione Nop
Hi! marcus.wolsc...@googlemail.com schrieb: Just a note: As a developer I am accepting the following values in the Traveling Salesman navigation system (case ignored): no false 0 -1 all other values are ignored and treated as yes (why else would you have a oneway-tag). So you are

Re: [OSM-talk] oneway yes or true

2009-02-27 Per discussione marcus.wolschon
On Fri, 27 Feb 2009 12:32:38 +0100, Nop ekkeh...@gmx.de wrote: marcus.wolsc...@googlemail.com schrieb: Just a note: As a developer I am accepting the following values in the Traveling Salesman navigation system (case ignored): no false 0 -1 all other values are ignored and treated as

Re: [OSM-talk] oneway yes or true

2009-02-27 Per discussione Ed Loach
Sly: Looks like Ed was faster than me doing it on the wiki. Also I would have prefered a bit of talking since some people seams to prefere 1/0 rather than yes/no I meant to change it when we discussed it last in the doctors/doctor thread. At some point in the past before I started mapping

Re: [OSM-talk] overuse of highway=path

2009-02-27 Per discussione Mario Salvini
Dave Stubbs schrieb: 2009/2/26 Pieren pier...@gmail.com: On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 12:20 PM, Florian Lohoff f...@rfc822.org wrote: highway=path is a single track wheres highway=track is a dual track. ??? Look at the wiki definition of track:

Re: [OSM-talk] server cannot find mod_tile

2009-02-27 Per discussione Kenneth Gonsalves
On Thursday 26 February 2009 21:02:37 you wrote: I had run it previously - I now recall that after the error in make, I ran make again and did not get any error. So I thought it was ok. This time also, running make the second time did not give any error. The mod_tile is from the svn head.

Re: [OSM-talk] oneway yes or true

2009-02-27 Per discussione sly (sylvain letuffe)
thread. At some point in the past before I started mapping it had been updated to yes/no/-1 The wiki's history might prove my guilt. But I wasn't aware of polls(voting?)/discussion needed to make such changes. When someone came to undo my changes, I realized I failed to follow the process so

[OSM-legal-talk] ODbL License + Outline Procedure

2009-02-27 Per discussione Peter Miller
On 27 Feb 2009, at 10:09, Grant Slater wrote: The OSMF License Working Group is excited and pleased to announce the completion of legal drafting and review by our legal counsel of the new proposed license, the Open Database License Agreement (ODbL). Thank you for your work to date;

Re: [OSM-talk] overuse of highway=path

2009-02-27 Per discussione Nic Roets
lots of footways or cycleways are even wide enought to catch 2 4-wheeled-vehicles next to each other but they are both still path+attributes per definition. The indication of being a path has nothing to do with the way's width. Hi Mario, IMO we don't tag ways according to their widest point,

Re: [OSM-talk] oneway yes or true

2009-02-27 Per discussione Nop
Hi! marcus.wolsc...@googlemail.com schrieb: On Fri, 27 Feb 2009 12:32:38 +0100, Nop ekkeh...@gmx.de wrote: marcus.wolsc...@googlemail.com schrieb: Just a note: As a developer I am accepting the following values in the Traveling Salesman navigation system (case ignored): no false 0

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] ODbL License + Outline Procedure

2009-02-27 Per discussione Mike Collinson
The suggestions re the Use Case page all sound good. Looking at the wiki history page, I assume but cannot absolutely guarentee that review has been made of the version extant 19th Jan (there were then no edits for a month). I've grabbed a copy of that page and will insert the review comments

Re: [OSM-talk] oneway yes or true

2009-02-27 Per discussione Iván Sánchez Ortega
El Viernes, 27 de Febrero de 2009, marcus.wolsc...@googlemail.com escribió: all other values are ignored and treated as yes (why else would you have a oneway-tag). Reversible lanes on a separated carriageway... -- -- Iván Sánchez Ortega i...@sanchezortega.es

Re: [OSM-talk] oneway yes or true - reversible lanes

2009-02-27 Per discussione marcus.wolschon
On Fri, 27 Feb 2009 13:36:23 +0100, Iván Sánchez Ortega i...@sanchezortega.es wrote: El Viernes, 27 de Febrero de 2009, marcus.wolsc...@googlemail.com escribió: all other values are ignored and treated as yes (why else would you have a oneway-tag). Reversible lanes on a separated

Re: [OSM-talk] oneway yes or true - reversible lanes

2009-02-27 Per discussione Iván Sánchez Ortega
El Viernes, 27 de Febrero de 2009, marcus.wolsc...@googlemail.com escribió: That is not something a routing enging can work with anyway as there is no rule as to when this is oneway=true and when this it oneway=-1. Agreed. It should be avoided unless you are starting (or re-calculating) the

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] ODbL License + Outline Procedure

2009-02-27 Per discussione Jukka Rahkonen
Grant Slater openstreet...@... writes: The OSMF License Working Group is excited and pleased to announce the completion of legal drafting and review by our legal counsel of the new proposed license, the Open Database License Agreement (ODbL). I am sure that this is going to be fun. Legal

[OSM-talk] License plan

2009-02-27 Per discussione Ben Laenen
It looks like we finally got some kind of License plan for the step towards the new license, so everyone check http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Data_License/Implementation_Plan Let me start with the obvious questions first: * why don't you split between the votes whether you like

Re: [OSM-talk] License plan

2009-02-27 Per discussione Frederik Ramm
Hi, I'll comment on various other aspects later but: Ben Laenen wrote: And what with the countless relations? If there's one way added to it by someone that didn't give approval, the only thing you can do is remove the relation as it was derived from CC-BY-SA data. Goodbye to your

Re: [OSM-talk] License plan

2009-02-27 Per discussione Ben Laenen
On Friday 27 February 2009, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, I'll comment on various other aspects later but: Ben Laenen wrote: And what with the countless relations? If there's one way added to it by someone that didn't give approval, the only thing you can do is remove the relation as it

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] ODbL License + Outline Procedure

2009-02-27 Per discussione OJ W
1: Are we going to contact the suppliers of large donated datasets to find their opinions on the new license? Or will the person who did the upload of their data just have to tick I agree on their behalf when they next log-in after the change? 2: For imported datasets where we checked

Re: [OSM-talk] oneway yes or true

2009-02-27 Per discussione OJ W
On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 10:55 AM, sly (sylvain letuffe) li...@letuffe.org wrote: Europe counts :               oneway               | count +  no;yes                             |      2 We have elves contributing?

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] ODbL License + Outline Procedure

2009-02-27 Per discussione Peter Miller
On 27 Feb 2009, at 13:05, Jukka Rahkonen wrote: Grant Slater openstreet...@... writes: The OSMF License Working Group is excited and pleased to announce the completion of legal drafting and review by our legal counsel of the new proposed license, the Open Database License Agreement

[OSM-talk] Should we be mapping tank tracks in Gaza?

2009-02-27 Per discussione Peter Miller
On the aerial photography for the Gaza Strip there are areas where there are tank tracks over some farming areas. Personally I have not been mapping these because I don't consider them as permanent features. At least one mapper is including them, for example here (to straight lines are

Re: [OSM-talk] License plan

2009-02-27 Per discussione Peter Miller
On 27 Feb 2009, at 13:19, Ben Laenen wrote: On Friday 27 February 2009, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, I'll comment on various other aspects later but: Ben Laenen wrote: And what with the countless relations? If there's one way added to it by someone that didn't give approval, the only

Re: [OSM-talk] License plan

2009-02-27 Per discussione Grant Slater
To be clear, personal views, not the licensing work group... Ben Laenen wrote: It looks like we finally got some kind of License plan for the step towards the new license, so everyone check http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Data_License/Implementation_Plan Read the full

Re: [OSM-talk] License plan

2009-02-27 Per discussione Ben Laenen
On Friday 27 February 2009, Peter Miller wrote: Would it be appropriate to continue this conversation on legal-talk? Talk is very busy at the moment and we have a lovely list of our own :) I think this discussion is important enough to take place on the talk mailing list. If it's held on the

Re: [OSM-talk] oneway yes or true

2009-02-27 Per discussione Richard Fairhurst
Nop wrote: On the other hand, the way I understood it OSM was a global initative and is happy for every additional mapper. If this is the goal, we need structures that you can understand and properly use without a degree in computer science. A good general principle: we should always

Re: [OSM-talk] License plan

2009-02-27 Per discussione Frederik Ramm
Hi, Peter Miller wrote: Would it be appropriate to continue this conversation on legal-talk? Talk is very busy at the moment and we have a lovely list of our own :) At what point do we then intend to include those people who are not interested in legal? Is it safe to assume that anyone who

Re: [OSM-talk] oneway yes or true

2009-02-27 Per discussione marcus.wolschon
On Fri, 27 Feb 2009 06:40:44 -0800 (PST), Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote: If we produce a wonderful world map but developers have to jump through a few hoops to use it, a) we have a wonderful world map, therefore b) people will - and are doing - produce the tools that jump through

Re: [OSM-talk] License plan

2009-02-27 Per discussione Richard Fairhurst
Ben Laenen wrote: There's exactly one way to be sure this won't happen: get approval of *all* the people who've been editing OSM. And with a number of around 100.000 mappers I'm very skeptical that you'll be able to manage that. Not true (IMO at least). We have 100,000

Re: [OSM-talk] License plan

2009-02-27 Per discussione Ben Laenen
On Friday 27 February 2009, Grant Slater wrote: Read the full announcement in all its glory: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/legal-talk/2009-February/001 958.html Discussion is best on legal-talk or the avenues as per announcement. I keep disagreeing. This is important enough to be

Re: [OSM-talk] oneway yes or true

2009-02-27 Per discussione Nic Roets
On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 4:40 PM, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote: A good general principle: we should always optimise for ease of mapping. Yes Richard, but some things are best done in the editors. It's much easier for editors to highlight obvious mistakes, than it is for every

Re: [OSM-talk] oneway yes or true

2009-02-27 Per discussione Richard Fairhurst
marcus.wolschon wrote: Actually it's the other way around. We have tens of thousands of mappers but are lacking developers on every corner. Nah. We don't have enough developers on the OSM core site, but that's immaterial in this context. The ecosystem, however, is thriving. There isn't a day

Re: [OSM-talk] oneway yes or true

2009-02-27 Per discussione Richard Fairhurst
Nic Roets wrote: On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 4:40 PM, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote: A good general principle: we should always optimise for ease of mapping. Yes Richard, but some things are best done in the editors. It's much easier for editors to highlight obvious mistakes, than

Re: [OSM-talk] License plan

2009-02-27 Per discussione Richard Fairhurst
Chris Hill wrote: Emoticon aside, I think the licence is far too important to just discuss among a cosy few. When I tried to join legal (out of interest) I could not. It's not a closed list - it's open to anyone and you can, of course, read on the web or via Nabble. If you try to join

Re: [OSM-talk] License plan

2009-02-27 Per discussione Peter Miller
On 27 Feb 2009, at 14:42, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, Peter Miller wrote: Would it be appropriate to continue this conversation on legal- talk? Talk is very busy at the moment and we have a lovely list of our own :) At what point do we then intend to include those people who are not

Re: [OSM-talk] License plan

2009-02-27 Per discussione David Lynch
On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 08:08, Peter Miller peter.mil...@itoworld.com wrote: Would it be appropriate to continue this conversation on legal-talk? Talk is very busy at the moment and we have a lovely list of our own :) Why do the non-lawyers need to go to the lawyers if they're making proposals

Re: [OSM-talk] Should we be mapping tank tracks in Gaza?

2009-02-27 Per discussione sergio sevillano
Peter Miller escribió: On the aerial photography for the Gaza Strip there are areas where there are tank tracks over some farming areas. Personally I have not been mapping these because I don't consider them as permanent features. At least one mapper is including them, for example here

Re: [OSM-talk] License plan

2009-02-27 Per discussione Peter Miller
On 27 Feb 2009, at 15:05, Chris Hill wrote: Peter Miller wrote: Would it be appropriate to continue this conversation on legal- talk? Talk is very busy at the moment and we have a lovely list of our own :) Emoticon aside, I think the licence is far too important to just discuss

Re: [OSM-talk] License plan

2009-02-27 Per discussione Dave Stubbs
2009/2/27 Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net: Ben Laenen wrote: There's exactly one way to be sure this won't happen: get approval of *all* the people who've been editing OSM. And with a number of around 100.000 mappers I'm very skeptical that you'll be able to manage that. Not true

Re: [OSM-talk] License plan

2009-02-27 Per discussione Chris Hill
Peter Miller wrote: Would it be appropriate to continue this conversation on legal-talk? Talk is very busy at the moment and we have a lovely list of our own :) Emoticon aside, I think the licence is far too important to just discuss among a cosy few. When I tried to join legal (out of

Re: [OSM-talk] License plan

2009-02-27 Per discussione Lambertus
Just out of curiosity: If the CC-by-SA license give the copyright to all contributors, then who is to decide what stays in the database and what is removed. Also who has the right to require a change to a new license? Is it the person who owns the server? Is it OSMF? Steve Coast as founder

Re: [OSM-talk] License plan

2009-02-27 Per discussione Ben Laenen
On Friday 27 February 2009, Dave Stubbs wrote: And even if you take the ultra cautious approach and say all edits are deserving of copyright protection, you can still draw a line around minor edits both temporal and spatial ie: a single edit can only possibly infect edits made after it, and

Re: [OSM-talk] License plan

2009-02-27 Per discussione Donald Allwright
If someone has put one church on the map, or removed an 'n' from 'Avennue', or even just done the uncreative monkey-work of tracing over Yahoo imagery, I take exception to this. I have spent many a long winter night (over two winters!) adding almost all the lakes and rivers of Peru to OSM (for

Re: [OSM-talk] License plan

2009-02-27 Per discussione Grant Slater
David Lynch wrote: On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 08:08, Peter Miller peter.mil...@itoworld.com wrote: Would it be appropriate to continue this conversation on legal-talk? Talk is very busy at the moment and we have a lovely list of our own :) Why do the non-lawyers need to go to the

[OSM-talk] ODbL License + Outline Procedure

2009-02-27 Per discussione Grant Slater
Please translate and pass on to the country-specific lists... Follow-up discussion best suited on http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk or the avenues discussed in this announcement. - The OSMF License Working Group is excited and pleased to announce the

Re: [OSM-talk] License plan

2009-02-27 Per discussione Donald Allwright
Even in the UK, which follows the sweat of the brow principle (i.e. copyright can be gained through effort even without creativity), such effort needs to be significant. Sorry I meant to add at the end of my previous email - what I was saying is that tracing of satellite imagery can be

Re: [OSM-talk] License plan

2009-02-27 Per discussione Frederik Ramm
Hi, Lambertus wrote: Just out of curiosity: If the CC-by-SA license give the copyright to all contributors, then who is to decide what stays in the database and what is removed. Ultimately this will be the person operating the database (server). You can of course always operate your own

Re: [OSM-talk] License plan - better on legal@

2009-02-27 Per discussione sly (sylvain letuffe)
On Friday 27 February 2009 15:42, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, Peter Miller wrote: Would it be appropriate to continue this conversation on legal-talk? Talk is very busy at the moment and we have a lovely list of our own :) Peter, you'r not alone, I'm with you ! At what point do we then

Re: [OSM-talk] License plan

2009-02-27 Per discussione Dave Stubbs
2009/2/27 Ben Laenen benlae...@gmail.com: On Friday 27 February 2009, Dave Stubbs wrote: And even if you take the ultra cautious approach and say all edits are deserving of copyright protection, you can still draw a line around minor edits both temporal and spatial ie: a single edit can only

Re: [OSM-talk] License plan - better on legal@

2009-02-27 Per discussione Nop
Hi! sly (sylvain letuffe) schrieb: The license change is no longer a boring legal affair, It has, and always will be, in the eyes of the majority. The best that can be done IMHO is to warn the maximum possible users, but don't force anyone to follow the discussion he is not interesting

Re: [OSM-talk] License plan

2009-02-27 Per discussione Nop
Hi! Grant Slater schrieb: Read the full announcement in all its glory: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/legal-talk/2009-February/001958.html Discussion is best on legal-talk or the avenues as per announcement. I disagree. This matter is important enough that it should be

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] ODbL License + Outline Procedure

2009-02-27 Per discussione Peter Miller
On 27 Feb 2009, at 13:40, OJ W wrote: 1: Are we going to contact the suppliers of large donated datasets to find their opinions on the new license? Or will the person who did the upload of their data just have to tick I agree on their behalf when they next log-in after the change? 2: For

[OSM-legal-talk] Licence restrictions on Produced Works?

2009-02-27 Per discussione Peter Miller
The legal council response to Use Case 1 says (in part) 'The ODbL imposes no license restrictions on the Produced Works, although it does restrict reverse engineering the Produced Work in order to re- create the Database and place it under a different license.' This says clearly that

Re: [OSM-talk] License plan

2009-02-27 Per discussione Ben Laenen
On Friday 27 February 2009, Frederik Ramm wrote: Lambertus wrote: If we change to the new license then do we have a tool available that will remind me of the bits that are going to be rolled back because of my contribution being dependent on someone who did not agree to the license? I

Re: [OSM-talk] License plan

2009-02-27 Per discussione Frederik Ramm
Hi, Ben Laenen wrote: I care about whether the database will still be clean after a possible change (meaning, properly licensed). The current license is anything but properly licensed. If you take a *strict* view then we're all violating CC-BY-SA every day by not listing every individual

Re: [OSM-talk] oneway yes or true

2009-02-27 Per discussione Matthias Julius
Celso González ce...@mitago.net writes: I dont understand the -1 or reserved value, what that means? one way yes/true/1 but in the opposite direction of the way? Exactly. Matthias ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org

Re: [OSM-talk] License plan

2009-02-27 Per discussione Ben Laenen
On Friday 27 February 2009, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, Ben Laenen wrote: I care about whether the database will still be clean after a possible change (meaning, properly licensed). The current license is anything but properly licensed. At least it's under one license, and no-one questions

Re: [OSM-talk] License plan

2009-02-27 Per discussione David Earl
On 27/02/2009 16:02, Frederik Ramm wrote: If we change to the new license then do we have a tool available that will remind me of the bits that are going to be rolled back because of my contribution being dependent on someone who did not agree to the license? I would like to know which bits

Re: [OSM-talk] oneway yes or true

2009-02-27 Per discussione Ed Loach
Celso González ce...@mitago.net writes: I dont understand the -1 or reserved value, what that means? one way yes/true/1 but in the opposite direction of the way? Matthias confirmed: Exactly. -yes anyone? Perhaps this should be oneway=forward/no/backward (where forward and backward are

Re: [OSM-talk] oneway yes or true

2009-02-27 Per discussione Elena of Valhalla
On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 6:16 PM, Ed Loach e...@loach.me.uk wrote: -yes anyone? please no, it's even less intuitive than -1 -- Elena ``of Valhalla'' homepage: http://www.trueelena.org email: elena.valha...@gmail.com ___ talk mailing list

Re: [OSM-talk] License plan

2009-02-27 Per discussione Richard Fairhurst
Donald Allwright wrote: Even in the UK, which follows the sweat of the brow principle (i.e. copyright can be gained through effort even without creativity), such effort needs to be significant. Sorry I meant to add at the end of my previous email - what I was saying is that tracing of

Re: [OSM-talk] License plan

2009-02-27 Per discussione Richard Fairhurst
Ben Laenen wrote: As long as there's no answer to it [...] I wouldn't even accept [...] I would refuse [...] I want a very detailed answer [...] that's really not my concern [...] Hey, this is a collaborative project. No-one is being paid for this. You could, you know, even _help_. cheers

Re: [OSM-talk] License plan

2009-02-27 Per discussione Frederik Ramm
Hi, Ben Laenen wrote: Ugh, and here I thought people in the FOSS world actually cared about proper use of licenses. Well if it were my call... Here's one: why not proposing to put it all under a proprietary license, and also relicense the works of those that you can't get an answer

Re: [OSM-talk] oneway yes or true

2009-02-27 Per discussione Andrew Chadwick (email lists)
OSM2Go now automagically flips oneway tags, tags on ways like foo:left and foo:right, and forward and backward members in relations when the user reverses a way. Better explain what we do for oneway somewhere, this might as well be it. We inherit JOSM's presets system, so we use whatever UI-wise

Re: [OSM-talk] License plan

2009-02-27 Per discussione Ben Laenen
On Friday 27 February 2009, Richard Fairhurst wrote: Ben Laenen wrote: As long as there's no answer to it [...] I wouldn't even accept [...] I would refuse [...] I want a very detailed answer [...] that's really not my concern [...] Hey, this is a collaborative project. No-one is

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] ODbL License + Outline Procedure

2009-02-27 Per discussione OJ W
Given that the purpose of this license is to allow use, copying, modifying, and redistribution, why is it phrased as only allowing you to Use the database, and then redefining Use in a different section to mean copying, modifying, and redistribution? Shouldn't the first paragraph of S3.1 be

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] ODbL License + Outline Procedure

2009-02-27 Per discussione Rob Myers
Add this question/point to the wiki! - Rob. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] ODbL License + Outline Procedure

2009-02-27 Per discussione Philipp Klaus Krause
It's sad to see OSM add to the pile of incompatible share-alike licenses, making it more and more impossible to create free works derived from more than one already existing free work. While I have to accept, that you do not want to go with a more PD or BSD-like license, I would have at least

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] ODbL License + Outline Procedure

2009-02-27 Per discussione Rob Myers
Philipp Klaus Krause wrote: It's sad to see OSM add to the pile of incompatible share-alike licenses, making it more and more impossible to create free works derived from more than one already existing free work. While I have to accept, that you do not want to go with a more PD or BSD-like

Re: [OSM-talk] License plan

2009-02-27 Per discussione MP
This will be a particular problem if this happened with someone who made lots of changes and then went off in a huff for some reason. What about data donated by varous organizations? In these cases, the user that uploaded them usually just merely converted the data from another format

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] ODbL License + Outline Procedure

2009-02-27 Per discussione Frederik Ramm
Hi, andrzej zaborowski wrote: What license would our data be under? Would it be under no license because it's factual data that cannot be copyrighted? Grant wrote: OSMFs legal counsel also recommends the use of the Factual Information License

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