Hi Rick and Tipsters,
Rick Adams wrote:
> Linda, why is it whenever I respond to anyone who posts something about
> Michael Sylvester you insist on taking it as a personal attack on you?
Perhaps, you phrased it poorly but it was how you characterized all who objected to
Michael's posts.
Linda wrote:
> So my posts have been adolescent?
Linda, why is it whenever I respond to anyone who posts something about
Michael Sylvester you insist on taking it as a personal attack on you?
My comment was directed to a specific poster who stated that permitting
convers
Rick,
Hear! Hear!
Ditto!
Well said!
Keith
At 06:12 PM 6/25/99 -0400, Rick Adams wrote:
> Don wrote:
>
>> Now I propose that anyone who feels it wise to respond to him should put
>> "Re: Michael Sylvester's latest idiotic posting" in the Subject line.
>> That way we can all save much ti
Paul Spector's website has a variety of I/O stuff
including instructor resources and web activities.
http://chuma.cas.usf.edu/~spector
Wadsworth's site has outlines, key terms, and
practice exams for Aamodt's text.
http://psychology.wadsworth.com/study_center/student/aamodt/
By the way, we're s
Hi --
I think this is the site you're looking for, John:
http://www.salon.com/books/feature/1999/06/22/feminismscience/index.html
On another media-related note, does anyone happen to have a site to get the
NY Times editorial mentioned by Paul Smith (see below)?
>I think you might be intereste
Kirsten Poehlmann wrote:
> On another media-related note, does anyone happen to have a site to get
the
> NY Times editorial mentioned by Paul Smith (see below)?
> > I think you might be interested in an editorial in the NYTimes today
> >(6/25/99): "Teaching Children to be Afraid", by Eugenie All
Does anyone know of any good web-based I/O material and activities?
Dave Johnson wrote:
>
> I seem to have deleted the original message asking for activities for an
> I/O course, so I'm sending this back to the entire list. Here are a few
> items from "Teaching of Psychology":
>
> Reed
Howdy Rick,
Rick Adams wrote:
> > If those who believe that free speech means we must listen to
> > endless adolescent discussion, then what is left?
>
> Isn't that what we are listening to from the Michael Sylvester opponents?
So my posts have been adolescent?
> What you are _
Hi
Got the following from a colleague. Perhaps of interest to the
list?
Best wishes
Jim
Just a general wow - Cybernetics in our lifetime ...
The rate of change keeps changing. Reminds me of the apparently prophetic
words of the Borg - "Resistance is futile"
Doug T
-Original
At 11:46 AM -0400 6/28/99, Michael Sylvester wrote:
>re Paul Smith
>
>To consider alternative explanations does not necessarily mean that one
>has to accept the alternative explanation.We should not be repressing
>alternative explanations just because they are far-out ideas.
>Maybe,I am more imagi
Don wrote:
> Sure, call me names if you don't like what I say.
But isn't that precisely what you asked people to do with Michael
Sylvester?
If it's fair for him, it's equally fair for you.
> If those who believe that free speech means we must listen to
> endless adolesc
Val,
Below are three abstracts that can get you started. I pasted these from a
search of Child Development Abstracts (URL below) using the terms
"resilience" or "resilient" These are not the definitive papers on the
topic, but they can provide an interesting starting point.
Dennis
http://www.sr
re Paul Smith
To consider alternative explanations does not necessarily mean that one
has to accept the alternative explanation.We should not be repressing
alternative explanations just because they are far-out ideas.
Maybe,I am more imaginative than the current postees and that my
teaching sty
How far is an understanding of the physical processes and structures in
the brain ESSENTIAL to a psychologists understanding of his (sic)
science?
Our staffroom has two schools of thought. One says that there are
relatively few areas of the discipline that actually require an
understanding of th
Michael Sylvester wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Jun 1999, Diana Kyle wrote:
>
> > .. My concern is that his ideas are transmitted to students.
>
> Why the concern?
> One aspect of critical thinking skills is to consider alternative
> explanations.
(please take this constructively...)
But
I have a student in my class with very poor attendance and she has missed
a couple of assignments. Her explanation is that she has been diagnosed
as biploar and is on medication. I have taken this into account and I give
her the necessary make-ups.
Whereas with the physically handicapped (physica
On Fri, 25 Jun 1999, Diana Kyle wrote:
> .. My concern is that his ideas are transmitted to students.
Why the concern?
One aspect of critical thinking skills is to consider alternative
explanations.My discussions always include comparing and contrasting and
I encourage students to pro
Hi Y'all,
Jim Clark wrote:
> The book I had read was indeed Baumeister's (1997, reprinted
> 1999) "Evil: Inside Human Cruelty and Violence" published by W.
> H. Freeman. A very interesting book.
Sorry to have been redundant about the citation in my previous post. Let me
however, provide some
I was unable to locate it. Perhaps Salon does not archive everything??
Found an interesting piece on genetics, though.
http://www.salon.com/health/feature/1999/06/25/genetics/index.html
Robin Pearce wrote:
>
> Colleagues--
>
> Check out the feature on "The valiant sperm and the femme fatale e
Recently, I've been involved in one of the more "controversial" threads
here in TIPS
While I don't apologize for the views I've expressed--those are honest
and represent my beliefs--as most people here in the list know, I seldom
become either heated or abrupt in my responses. I no
To all who provided comments and recent references on self-esteem,
Thank you. I'm not at all familiar with the self-esteem
literature but I've worked with cognitive style measures. Are these
considered indices of self-esteem? I'm sort of feeling my way towards
a logical extension of positiv
Tipsters,
I'm somewhat new on the list and have tried not to get into the debate. However, I
must
add my 1 cent (for what it's worth). I know that eventually some of the comments of
MS
would cease if they were not reinforced, but that is easier said than done. From my
perspective, it's real
I am still waiting word on my questions on the origin of the Tower of
Hanoi ,and input on the American Opthomological Report on Sex and
Blindness.Some discussion on the impact of left and right hemisphere
re arousal would be relevant to the issue of academia amnd the social
order( an issue whi
*sigh* This is moving from the sublime to the ridiculous. Let's get back to
the business of the TEACHING of PSYCHOLOGY, please. Those having personal
issues with Michael, or with anyone for that matter, should deal with them
on a private basis. This particular thread is rapidly becoming tedious a
Okay, enough already!!! Can I just say that I am soo sick
of these posts!!! Can we please end this topic??? I have takled with
quite a few of my colleaques and we all sick of the topic on the list!
Everybody has made their point (more than once, or even twice!) and it
pretty ob
Louis wrote
>So, Linda, (gulp, gulp), let me pose an allegorical situation. Someone
>on this list bloopers a student. I assert that when I was invited to
>subscribe to TIPS, I didn't expect psychologists and teachers of
>psychology to denigrate students, specifically or with sterotyping an
>enti
On Sat, 26 Jun 1999, Hank Goldstein wrote:
>
> Any "academic" psychologist who still believes and propagates the old
> simplistic notions about left- and right-brain activity does our
> discipline and her/his students a disservice. There is much more I could
> say about the post from which the
On Fri, 25 Jun 1999, Linda M. Woolf wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Rick Adams wrote:
>
> > I'm a libertarian with respect to rights. If it doesn't _directly_ harm
> > the person or property of another, non-consenting, individual it simply
> > isn't the government's business.
>
> There is an assum
Some comments on the Sylvester issue:
* What does the ACLU or the US Constitution have to do with anything here?
We're a group of persons who can negotiate our own group norms. Has
Sylvester been charged with a crime? Is the government involved in our
interactions? Jumping in, armed with ACLU car
Hi Folks,
On June 25, Michael Sylvester wrote:
> THe academician has virtually no significant impact
> in changing the social order. Social workers,politicians,bigots,religion
> are more powerful than the world of academia.
> This is probably related to the fact that left brain activity is
> dul
Hello everyone,
Rick Adams wrote:
> The "professional" response is simply to ignore (or kill file) messages
Rick, who says that is the professional way to handle abusive and annoying message in
a group such as this? I feel reading Svlyester's posts are about on the
professional level of the J
Patrick Mattimore wrote:
> We invite you to be a partner in establishing good practice in
> assessment but (sic) (by) sending short scenarios of your best
> and worst assessment experiences in any of the above categories
> to Jane Halonen at James Madison University ([EMAIL PROTECTED]).
> (Ed
Gary wrote:
> What I find extremely troubling is that there is a concern that Don's
> response is degrading to Michael and those of you who find some
> merit in his postings while there is not an equal concern that many
> of us find Michael's posts degrading. This is not the bar where t
Rick Adams wrote:
> It's a simple matter to avoid Michael's (or anyone else's) posts--don't
> read them!
That would be like trying NOT to look at an accident that you pass on the highway.
Everyone knows it is the right thing to do, but when we start to think, "Gee, I
wonder how bad this
What I find extremely troubling is that there is a concern that Don's
response is degrading to Michael and those of you who find some merit in his
postings while there is not an equal concern that many of us find Michael's
posts degrading. This is not the bar where the good ol' boys can sit aroun
I think we can just look at all the different connotations people on the
list give to it. It clearly has problems as a viable construct. Seligman,
Baumeister, and others have critiqued it well with empirical support.
People want to believe that if you have it (however it is defined) that it
Please do not think that by this I mean to in any way excuse certain behavior
but maybe by now we all need a good laugh. Does anyone else see an analogy
here? Maybe you don't blame a creature for its' nature but sometimes you
just have to put a stinky critter outside and leave him there.
How
There's an article about the study on ABC News
http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/science/DailyNews/beauty990623.html
> An article in the latest journal of Nature looks very interesting.
(24 June 1999 (Vol. 399 No 6738)
> I've been unable to get my hands on it, since I'm up in the boonies of
This past week, APA and James Madison University sponsored a national
forum on psychology partnerships. Approximately 117 educators, including
graduate students, graduate and undergraduate faculty, and secondary school
teachers, attended. The forum has been three years in the offing and came
a
On Fri, 25 Jun 1999, Deb Briihl wrote:
> Hi all,
> I have found info on the visual cortex (including a picture of how simple
> cells work based on info from receptive fields and pictures of orientation
> coding) I still need a good site trichromatic and opponent process theory
> (I have 2 on the
On Thu, 24 Jun 1999, Donette Steele wrote:
>
> Also has anyone been following the "Sleepwalking Murder" trial on CourtTV.
> I know this has been used as a successful defense in one case and I have
> heard of another. The basic scenario of this trial: a man stabbed his
> wife forty-four times an
I seem to recall that some years (or decades)
ago a noted developmental psychologist wrote about "superkids" who
appeared to be impervious to adverse environments. Unfortunately, I can't
recall his name and, accordingly, am unable to look up any references to his
work or writings. If any
Don wrote:
> Now I propose that anyone who feels it wise to respond to him should put
> "Re: Michael Sylvester's latest idiotic posting" in the Subject line.
> That way we can all save much time and effort.
Ok. But since some of us view him differently, would it be ok to put "Re:
Linda
I echo the sentiment of others that it would be a great loss if you left
the list. By far, your contributions have raised the level of this group.
I have the same frustrations regarding the willingness of many in the group
to accept blatant prejudicial comments under the guise of freedom
Rick might also want to check: Hewitt, J. P. (1998). __The myth of
self-esteem: Finding happiness and solving problems in America__New York:
St. Martins Press. Gary Peterson
-Original Message-
From: Don Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: [EMAIL
You might be thinking of an article by Roy Baumeister entitled, "Should
Schools Try To Boost Self-Esteem? Beware the Dark Side" that was
originally published in the American Educator (Summer 1996). Baumeister
also co-authored an article in Psychological Review (1996, Vol. 103, No.1)
entitled "Re
Dear Linda:
Hopefully my earlier post made it clear that I feel you are a great asset to
this list. Although I do not contribute often, I have learned much from many
who do. As I said earlier, Linda, your posts are professional and
informative. I think it is very disappointing that some on
On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, Dr. Kristina Lewis wrote:
> I worry that by trying to "level the playing field"
> for our students we are just setting them up for failure later. (Please
> don't get me wrong--I think we need to recognize and accommodate learning
> differences, but is there a limit?)
I won
--
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: Color blindness - Student Question
>Date: Fri, Jun 25, 1999, 8:52 AM
>
> Tipsfolks:
>
> Though the tenor of the recent discussion may have caused some to delete this
> message (believing it to be about skin-color, off-color hum
At 12:05 PM 6/25/99 -0500, you wrote:
>What is sad is that the end result of this discussion will most likely be my
leaving
>the list.
I think I speak for many on this list who, like me, value your contributions.
Please, Linda, do not unsubscribe.
<>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
Linda's post inspired me to track down the article I remembered. Here is the
reference for those interested:
Baumeister, R. F., Smart, L. & Boden, J. M. (1996). Relation of Threatened Egotism
to Violence and Aggression: The Dark Side of High Self-Esteem. Psychological
Review, 103, 5-33.
Eric J
SET TIPS NOMAIL
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Because of the rampant misuse of
> the concept "self-esteem" over the past decade I prefer to discuss
> "self-respect" because that's what I believe is the really essential virtue.
> You don't have to like everyone, but if we all respected ourselves and each
> other, I
I confess. I think self-esteem is incredibly valuable and that people
should feel good about themselves even if they aren't perfect. My (limited)
understanding of the issue is that SE critics question giving people
positive reinforcement for bad or poor behavior - which I didn't know
people were d
Linda Woolf wrote:
"Sadly, seriously considering unsubscribing."
I too have stayed out of this discussion, hoping desperately that it
would just go away. I applaud Linda's courage to speak out against
"isms" in all forms and find Michael's own admission that he "did not
learn anything" more
Hello Linda,
I am sending a personal plea that you not leave TIPS! You are a model of
scholarship and critical thinking (IMHO). You may not be aware of how many
of us you have had a very positive influence on. My name has not shown up
often in this discussion because, rather than add to the vo
Paul et al.,
I assume your very good question was rhetorical. Of course not - what
parents should give their children above all is real love.
I would like to caution people bandying about the term "self-esteem" to be
more cautious. I am not sure if people know what we are talking about when
Hi Folks (or is 'Folk' plural?)
Unforunately, Michael's statement seems all too true!
Peace,
Hank
===
Hank Goldstein, Ph.D.| PHONE: (319) 588-6305
Department of Psychology | FAX:(319) 588-6789
Clarke
Dave, I don't think you have been offensive in the slightest. I think you
have made a very good point. Discuss the message, not the messenger.
Make it a good day.
--Louis--
Louis Schmier [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Departmen
Linda et al:
It's interesting though that these "inflated self-esteems" that end up
responsible for so much violence and cruelty usually arise from broken,
alienated individuals and groups. Think of the attitude that most of world
had towards Germany before the horrific rise of Nazism - the a
Don Allen wrote:
> I taking up the self esteem debate with your colleague you
> may want to take a look at Rich-Harris' "The Nurture Assumption"
> (Free Press, New York, 1998). On page 339 she says in part:
>
> "According to advice-givers, selfesteem is the most valuable thing a
> parent can give
Hi Y'all,
"Dr. Eric Johnson" wrote:
> On the whole narcissism issue, I have somewhere in this office (ARGH!) a copy
> of a recent article by Baumeister who addressed the finding that while
> self-esteem is generally positively correlated with things like academic
> performance, behavior, etc., s
Dawn Blasko wrote:
> Statistics show that school are still quite safe places on average,
> but parents, school administrators, politicians and elected officials
> (i.e. judges and DAs) are terrified that will be seen
> as being too soft or unprepared if ever something does happen
> in their school
PS!! Darn send key--meant to hit cancel insteadWell, here's what
I really meant to say:
Kaufman (1990) gives the following table:
Years of Schooling Mean FSIQ
16+ (College graduate) 115.2
13-15 (some college)107.3
12 (high school graduate) 100.0
9-
I have remained out of this latest round of discussion of what to do
with Michael Sylvester. I believe in free speech, but I think we need a
mechanism so that we can avoid having to read all the discussions kicked
up by his adolescent questions and comments.
A while ago there was a similar debat
Kaufman (1990) gives the following table:
Years of Schooling Mean FSIQ
16+ 115.2
Hi Folks,
I not going to respond to every one of Rick's statements point by point. Rather, I
am just going to summarize a few thoughts and be done with it. Clearly, Rick and I
have some underlying value differences. We will by necessity need to simply
disagree regarding these. It is my hope t
I guess I'm having a major stupid attack.. I
just don't "get it." Wouldn't it BE better to allow subjects to
control the lighting to see what the natural cycle is
JL Edwards[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message-From:
Dawn Blasko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Eric wrote:
> He noted that the juvenile court system was developed about 100
> years ago. In doing so, the court system acknowledged that
> children had different needs and were in greater need and had a
> greater possibility of rehabilitation.
One concern that seems to be abs
I enjoy humorous posts and would like to see them
continue. As for the present debate, I guess I value freedom of speech and
thought enough so that right now I have to give up lurking long enough to
express that opinion.
G. Marc Turner said "I will wait a couple of days before
making a
RJ-
I taking up the self esteem debate with your colleague you may want to
take a look at Rich-Harris' "The Nurture Assumption" (Free Press, New
York, 1998). On page 339 she says in part:
"According to advice-givers, selfesteem is the most valuable thing a
parent can give a child. ... The
Rick Adams writes on 24 Jun 99,:
> Rick Froman wrote:
>
> > On 24 Jun 99, at 12:05, Michael Sylvester wrote:
> >
> > > Consider the source (with or without documentation)
> >
> > Is there a difference between this and ad hominem argumentation?
>
> I would certainly think so.
>
> If, for exam
Although I haven't read the study I did hear an interview with the
authors and the distinction I heard was that earlier studies had allowed
subjects to use any light they wished at any time. Because light can
reset circadian rhythms, in the current study the light was kept at a
constant level as h
Linda Woolf wrote:
>I read the following while doing a search of the news yesterday
>(http://www.freep.com/news/mich/qport23.htm). Apparently, four boys
>(two under the age of 14) were overheard plotting a shooting/massacre at
>their school. While this clearly calls for intervention, the two 14
I an going to the Dean and demand that I get my tuition money back
since I did not learn anything in the course.
Michael Sylvester
has anyone been following the discussion that came out of the meeting of
the American Opthomological Society that too much sex can lead to eye
disorders including blindness?
This is not the first time I have heard some purported correlation of
sex and behavioral consequences. For example,people wh
On Thu, 24 Jun 1999, Donette Steele wrote:
>. Peers
> constitute a much more realistic world, listen to them.
>
> Donette Steele
> Instructor/Psychology
> LBCC
I do not agree.Peers constitute more of an idealistic world.
As a matter of fact,
David Wasieleski
> Feeling myself dragged in
> Because although I see the value of some of these issues, top
> me TIPS ought not be about a judgment of any individual's value,
> or even their contributions. Are mine valuable? Are yours?
> Anyone else's?
I'm pretty much with you on thi
Ok let me amend my earlier tirade. My point is I DO see the signal, but the
noise could be lessened so as to less likely obscure it. But thanks for the
jolt of much-needed perspective.
David W.
At 10:41 AM 6/25/99 -0500, Paul C. Smith wrote:
>David Wasieleski
>> Feeling myself dragged in
>> B
Let me suggest another strong source for information. "The Construction of
the Self: A Developmental Perspective" by Susan Harter just came out this
year. This text addresses issues of both self-concept and self-esteem.
Harter's model of self-esteem draws together the work of James (competence i
Hi all..
Has anyone seen this new study on sleep and the biological clock? These
results contradict earlier research that indicated the human sleep cycle is 25
hours. The authors criticized the previous research on the grounds that bright
lights were used. The authors in this new study us
Although I feel both sides of the Sylvester debate have made good points, I
feel this topic has strayed well beyond the limits of the list. Being
somewhat of a libertarian myself (I might not like like what you say, but
I'll defend to the death your right to say it...and all that jazz), I
strongly
I heard someone in our department the other day talking about recent
research on self-esteem... Accroding to what he said, it turns out that a
lot criminals have very high self-esteem, as opposed to the low self-esteem
they were predicted to have. I never heard the actual reference to the
article(
Linda and TIPS,
While there are significant legal issues in the reactions of the authorities in this
case, the issue of trying children as a adults has surfaced at several recent
conferences I attended. In the last Child Development and Adolescent Research
Conferences, Lawrence Steinberg has pre
Hi Rick and Other Folks,
Here is a copy of a Joyce Morris post from Aug. 98:
These are some web sites on evaluating web sites:
http://www.sph.emory.edu/WELLNESS/abstract.html
Evaluating Health-related Web Sites
http://www.misa.on.ca/i4g/guideln.htm
Guidelines and Policies for your Website
htt
Feeling myself dragged in
Because although I see the value of some of these issues, top me TIPS ought
not be about a judgment of any individual's value, or even their
contributions. Are mine valuable? Are yours? Anyone else's? And it's all
starting to seem like rehash. Michael says something t
RJ:
The whole "self-esteem" issue is a classic that highlights a number of
problems in our discipline, among them:
- The problem of operationalizing intangible concepts.
- The corrupting influences of commericially driven pop psychology.
- Cross-cultural differences.
This isn't answering you
On Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:50:30 -0400 (EDT) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I am in need of information.
>
> What is self-esteem and what does it do?
>
For a source of constructive debate, you and your friend might
take a look at:
Leary, M. R. (1999). Making sense of self-esteem. Current
Dir
TIPsters,
we are in the first phases of defining our needs for a new science building to include
psychology. I have been asked to provide input on sensation and perception labs, both
for teaching and for faculty/grad student/undergraduate independent study use. Does
anybody out there have de
Hi all,
I have found info on the visual cortex (including a picture of how simple
cells work based on info from receptive fields and pictures of orientation
coding) I still need a good site trichromatic and opponent process theory
(I have 2 on the Retinex theory), smell and taste perception, etc.
At my institution, which is open admissions in Louisiana, the mean IQ
for intro psych students is 91.1 (sd =12.21), as measured by the
Shipley. This is based on an N of 584. Many of these people do not get
beyond the first semester of college. IQs have been assessed with three
different measures a
Dear Linda and all Tipsters:
It has been pointed out that only a select few have been active in expressing
their views on Mr. Sylvester's ill worded posts. To help correct that, my
humble opinion follows:
I have stayed out of this thread so far mainly because I have learned from
past experie
I am in need of information.
What is self-esteem and what does it do?
I am in a debate with a colleague who (w)hole-heartedly believes in the
construct as in "the more you have, the better you are." I am
skeptical...and maybe suffering from low self-esteem (whatever that is!).
Thanks i
Title: To sleep, perchance...
Couldn't resist snickering at this sentence from the book Jeff Ricker
found.
"I frankly support the theory that we do not dream all night, as do William
Dement and Alan Hobson and most neurophysiologists."
I don't know any neurophysiologists personally, but it's t
Tipsfolks:
Though the tenor of the recent discussion may have caused some to delete this
message (believing it to be about skin-color, off-color humor, colorforms, or
some other socially relevant color issue) I am hoping that someone with
physio background who did not hit "delete" might provid
Which of us is Chauncy?
Michael Quanty
Psychology Professor
CBMTS Project Director
Thomas Nelson Community College
P.O. Box 9407
Hampton, Virginia 23670
Voice: 757.825.3500
Fax: 757.825.3807
-Original Message-
From: Rick Froman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 1999
TIPSters:
>From Donette Steele...
>I read Gerald Peterson's post regarding his fun spring class on the
>psychology of paranormal experiences. I am curious as to what textbook
>could be used for this type of class. It does sound interesting. Has
>anyone else taught this course? Gary, would yo
Rick Adams wrote:
> Thanks, Larry.
>
> There are some valuable urls included in your message (btw, the first one
>is a dead link--or at least it was at this time of day), particularly the
>last two.
>
> I appreciate the cites! :)
Rick, others,
The url for
On Fri, 25 Jun 1999, David Wasieleski, Ph.D. wrote:
> I have stayed out of this debate, in part because I tend to lurk often on
> TIPS and in part because I see it as counterproductive to spend so much
> time conversing about the value of any one member's posts.
Dave, why?
Make it a good day.
On Fri, 25 Jun 1999, Rick Adams wrote:
> My problem with limiting words is not that they can cause emotional harm,
> no rational person would disagree with that statement. My problem is that
> I see restriction on words as causing _greater_ harm than open discourse.
>
> To me, the
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