Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-15 Thread webmaster-Kracked_P_P
On 10/15/2012 07:48 AM, Wolfgang Keller wrote: that's the way it is and that's why currently I don't use LO Writer for anything else than for converting .doc files to .pdf I might just be something a little bit above a IT moron but using LO Writer to convert doc into pdf appears to me like using

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-15 Thread Wolfgang Keller
> > that's the way it is and that's why currently I don't use LO Writer > > for anything else than for converting .doc files to .pdf > I might just be something a little bit above a IT moron but using LO > Writer to convert doc into pdf appears to me like using a tractor to > participate in a F1 r

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-15 Thread Wolfgang Keller
> But Ooo/LO does use structure markup. All .odt/.ods documents are XML > files. XML is just syntax. It does not necessarily imply structure markup, as shown by e.g. .docx and .odt. Just unzip an .odt document and open contents.xml in a XML editor to see what "spaghetti xml" looks like. Sincerely

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-10 Thread webmaster-Kracked_P_P
On 10/10/2012 12:11 AM, rost52 wrote: On 2012-10-09 18:50, Marcello Romani wrote: that's the way it is and that's why currently I don't use LO Writer for anything else than for converting .doc files to .pdf I might just be something a little bit above a IT moron but using LO Writer to convert d

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-10 Thread Marcello Romani
Il 10/10/2012 06:11, rost52 ha scritto: On 2012-10-09 18:50, Marcello Romani wrote: that's the way it is and that's why currently I don't use LO Writer for anything else than for converting .doc files to .pdf I might just be something a little bit above a IT moron but using LO Writer to convert

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-09 Thread Dr. R. O Stapf
On 2012-10-09 18:24, John Clegg wrote: Forgive me, but I thought one of the aims of LO was improvements to usability. I open emails mailed to me dozens of times a day. Doing Save-As, or clicking the edit button takes little time I agree, but why is it so wrong to desire that as the default to sa

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-09 Thread rost52
On 2012-10-09 18:50, Marcello Romani wrote: that's the way it is and that's why currently I don't use LO Writer for anything else than for converting .doc files to .pdf I might just be something a little bit above a IT moron but using LO Writer to convert doc into pdf appears to me like using a

[libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-09 Thread Andreas Säger
Am 09.10.2012 11:24, John Clegg wrote: > Forgive me, but I thought one of the aims of LO was improvements to > usability. I open emails mailed to me dozens of times a day. Doing Save-As, > or clicking the edit button takes little time I agree, but why is it so > wrong to desire that as the default

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-09 Thread Marcello Romani
Il 07/10/2012 20:32, Wolfgang Keller ha scritto: Everything that you get from LaTeX: structure markup instead of spaghetti formatting, parameterized formatting, etc... Instead of clicking through dozens of dialogboxes for each and every line of text, slide title, list item, figure, etc. to get e

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-09 Thread Tom Davies
Hi :) +1 Regards from Tom :)  --- On Tue, 9/10/12, Marcello Romani wrote: From: Marcello Romani Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead To: users@global.libreoffice.org Date: Tuesday, 9 October, 2012, 8:14 Il 08/10

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-09 Thread John Clegg
Forgive me, but I thought one of the aims of LO was improvements to usability. I open emails mailed to me dozens of times a day. Doing Save-As, or clicking the edit button takes little time I agree, but why is it so wrong to desire that as the default to save me time? On 9 October 2012 10:18, Andr

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-09 Thread Marcello Romani
Il 09/10/2012 11:18, Andreas Säger ha scritto: Am 09.10.2012 09:14, Marcello Romani wrote: Il 08/10/2012 14:13, John Clegg ha scritto: OK, if I accept everything that has been said, then why wouldn't opening an in-memory r/w copy be the sensible default action? So that when the user would try

[libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-09 Thread Andreas Säger
Am 09.10.2012 09:14, Marcello Romani wrote: > Il 08/10/2012 14:13, John Clegg ha scritto: >> OK, if I accept everything that has been said, then why wouldn't >> opening an >> in-memory r/w copy be the sensible default action? > > So that when the user would try to save it a Save As dialog would ap

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-09 Thread Marcello Romani
Il 08/10/2012 14:13, John Clegg ha scritto: OK, if I accept everything that has been said, then why wouldn't opening an in-memory r/w copy be the sensible default action? So that when the user would try to save it a Save As dialog would appear ? Sounds good to me. -- Marcello Romani -- For u

[libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-08 Thread Andreas Säger
Am 08.10.2012 14:13, John Clegg wrote: > OK, if I accept everything that has been said, then why wouldn't opening an > in-memory r/w copy be the sensible default action? > Tell your mail client, browser, whatever to call soffice with the -n switch. The -n switch treats every document as if it wer

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-08 Thread John Clegg
OK, if I accept everything that has been said, then why wouldn't opening an in-memory r/w copy be the sensible default action? On 8 October 2012 13:08, Marcello Romani wrote: > Il 05/10/2012 17:18, Marcello Romani ha scritto: > >> Il 05/10/2012 16:31, webmaster-Kracked_P_P ha scritto: >> >>> On

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-08 Thread Marcello Romani
Il 05/10/2012 17:18, Marcello Romani ha scritto: Il 05/10/2012 16:31, webmaster-Kracked_P_P ha scritto: On 10/05/2012 10:10 AM, Marcello Romani wrote: Il 05/10/2012 11:07, John Clegg ha scritto: One feature I miss isn't actually a feature in MSO as such, but LO behaves differently. If I open a

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-07 Thread Girvin R. Herr
Greetings, This thread has been ongoing for a relatively long time now and IMHO it has forked many times and veared off of its original message: that MS was to start renting their software and the lock on users that that implies. Well, as we have been debating all these forked threads, there

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-07 Thread jomali
But Ooo/LO does use structure markup. All .odt/.ods documents are XML files. On Sun, Oct 7, 2012 at 2:32 PM, Wolfgang Keller wrote: > > > Everything that you get from LaTeX: structure markup instead of > > > spaghetti formatting, parameterized formatting, etc... > > > > > > Instead of clicking t

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-07 Thread Mirosław Zalewski
On 07/10/2012 at 20:32, Wolfgang Keller wrote: > The point with MS Word, as (unfortunately) with LO Writer is, that, > unlike e.g. Wordperfect or FrameMaker their document model is thoroughly > unstructured ("spaghetti"), and the way "styles" are implemented they do > not allow to "emulate" "stru

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-07 Thread Wolfgang Keller
> > Everything that you get from LaTeX: structure markup instead of > > spaghetti formatting, parameterized formatting, etc... > > > > Instead of clicking through dozens of dialogboxes for each and every > > line of text, slide title, list item, figure, etc. to get > > everything the way you want i

[libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-06 Thread Andreas Säger
Am 06.10.2012 20:18, Jay Lozier wrote: > VBS macros in MSO documents have been used to infect Windows computers. > The issue is what is good practice regardless of the OS. If you follow > good practices, the possibility of problems is significantly reduced. Bullshit. -- For unsubscribe instruc

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-06 Thread Jay Lozier
On 10/06/2012 01:27 PM, Felmon Davis wrote: > On Sat, 6 Oct 2012, Jay Lozier wrote: > >> On 10/06/2012 11:37 AM, Spencer Graves wrote: >>> On 10/6/2012 6:13 AM, Andreas Säger wrote: Am 05.10.2012 14:09, John Clegg wrote: > I thought LO was emulating MSO 97?? > Read-only is the onl

[libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-06 Thread Andreas Säger
Am 06.10.2012 19:59, Felmon Davis wrote: > On Sat, 6 Oct 2012, Mirosław Zalewski wrote: > >> On 06/10/2012 at 19:27, Felmon Davis wrote: >> >>> I am still not sure how one gets an infection from saving a file as >>> writable. on a Linux system it's not executable, not sure how it >>> works on Win

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-06 Thread Felmon Davis
On Sat, 6 Oct 2012, Mirosław Zalewski wrote: On 06/10/2012 at 19:27, Felmon Davis wrote: I am still not sure how one gets an infection from saving a file as writable. on a Linux system it's not executable, not sure how it works on Windows. how would infection occur? It's rather that in r

[libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-06 Thread Andreas Säger
Am 06.10.2012 19:16, John Clegg wrote: > Whilst a condom is always wise I still prefer to put it on for > myself > If you prefer to not choose anything, the other side will take her own precautions. -- Your mail/cloud client creates a *temporary file for viewing* unless you explicitly *d

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-06 Thread Mirosław Zalewski
On 06/10/2012 at 19:27, Felmon Davis wrote: > I am still not sure how one gets an infection from saving a file as > writable. on a Linux system it's not executable, not sure how it works > on Windows. > > how would infection occur? It's rather that in read-only mode, office suite will not run

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-06 Thread Felmon Davis
On Sat, 6 Oct 2012, Jay Lozier wrote: On 10/06/2012 11:37 AM, Spencer Graves wrote: On 10/6/2012 6:13 AM, Andreas Säger wrote: Am 05.10.2012 14:09, John Clegg wrote: I thought LO was emulating MSO 97?? Read-only is the only sensible way to open other people's files (web downloads, mail atta

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-06 Thread John Clegg
Whilst a condom is always wise I still prefer to put it on for myself On 6 October 2012 18:13, Jay Lozier wrote: > On 10/06/2012 11:37 AM, Spencer Graves wrote: > > On 10/6/2012 6:13 AM, Andreas Säger wrote: > >> Am 05.10.2012 14:09, John Clegg wrote: > >>> I thought LO was emulating MSO

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-06 Thread Jay Lozier
On 10/06/2012 11:37 AM, Spencer Graves wrote: > On 10/6/2012 6:13 AM, Andreas Säger wrote: >> Am 05.10.2012 14:09, John Clegg wrote: >>> I thought LO was emulating MSO 97?? >>> >> Read-only is the only sensible way to open other people's files (web >> downloads, mail attachments). > > > Why?

[libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-06 Thread Andreas Säger
Am 06.10.2012 17:37, Spencer Graves wrote: > On 10/6/2012 6:13 AM, Andreas Säger wrote: >> Am 05.10.2012 14:09, John Clegg wrote: >>> I thought LO was emulating MSO 97?? >>> >> Read-only is the only sensible way to open other people's files (web >> downloads, mail attachments). > > > Why? >

RE: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-06 Thread Dennis E. Hamilton
libreoffice.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead On 10/6/2012 6:13 AM, Andreas Säger wrote: > Am 05.10.2012 14:09, John Clegg wrote: >> I thought LO was emulating MSO 97?? >> > Read-only is th

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-06 Thread Spencer Graves
On 10/6/2012 6:13 AM, Andreas Säger wrote: Am 05.10.2012 14:09, John Clegg wrote: I thought LO was emulating MSO 97?? Read-only is the only sensible way to open other people's files (web downloads, mail attachments). Why? What if I want to edit it? Are you outlawing collabora

[libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-06 Thread Andreas Säger
Am 05.10.2012 14:09, John Clegg wrote: > I thought LO was emulating MSO 97?? > Read-only is the only sensible way to open other people's files (web downloads, mail attachments). -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/g

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-05 Thread Tom Davies
ffice.org >Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 18:01 >Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start >renting their office products instead > >On 10/05/2012 05:07 AM, John Clegg wrote: >> One feature I miss isn't actually a feature in MSO a

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-05 Thread Doug
On 10/05/2012 05:07 AM, John Clegg wrote: One feature I miss isn't actually a feature in MSO as such, but LO behaves differently. If I open a spreadsheet from an email or the web it places a copy in the download folder/directory and Calc always opens it read-only whereas Excel opens it as read-wr

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-05 Thread Marcello Romani
Il 05/10/2012 16:31, webmaster-Kracked_P_P ha scritto: On 10/05/2012 10:10 AM, Marcello Romani wrote: Il 05/10/2012 11:07, John Clegg ha scritto: One feature I miss isn't actually a feature in MSO as such, but LO behaves differently. If I open a spreadsheet from an email or the web it places a

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-05 Thread webmaster-Kracked_P_P
On 10/05/2012 10:10 AM, Marcello Romani wrote: Il 05/10/2012 11:07, John Clegg ha scritto: One feature I miss isn't actually a feature in MSO as such, but LO behaves differently. If I open a spreadsheet from an email or the web it places a copy in the download folder/directory and Calc always

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-05 Thread Marcello Romani
Il 29/09/2012 20:10, Wolfgang Keller ha scritto: - actually useful formatting concepts for presentations like e.g. LaTeX Beamer provides. Could you elaborate? I don't know Beamer (I have heard the name, but never really used it) and I am interested in knowing what it has to offer that LO is not

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-05 Thread Marcello Romani
Il 05/10/2012 11:07, John Clegg ha scritto: One feature I miss isn't actually a feature in MSO as such, but LO behaves differently. If I open a spreadsheet from an email or the web it places a copy in the download folder/directory and Calc always opens it read-only whereas Excel opens it as read-

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-05 Thread John Clegg
I thought LO was emulating MSO 97?? On 5 October 2012 13:00, Gordon Burgess-Parker wrote: > On 05/10/12 10:07, John Clegg wrote: > >> whereas Excel opens it as read-write. >> > That behaviour has changed in MS Office 2010 - email attachments are > opened as read-only by default.. > -- > > Regist

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-05 Thread Gordon Burgess-Parker
On 05/10/12 10:07, John Clegg wrote: whereas Excel opens it as read-write. That behaviour has changed in MS Office 2010 - email attachments are opened as read-only by default.. -- Registered Linux User no 240308 GBP's alternative computing:http://gbplinuxfoss.blogspot.com/ Say No to OOXMLhtt

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-05 Thread Tom Davies
iday, 5 October 2012, 10:07 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead One feature I miss isn't actually a feature in MSO as such, but LO behaves differently. If I open a spreadsheet from an email or the web it

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-05 Thread John Clegg
One feature I miss isn't actually a feature in MSO as such, but LO behaves differently. If I open a spreadsheet from an email or the web it places a copy in the download folder/directory and Calc always opens it read-only whereas Excel opens it as read-write. I would like at least an option to get

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-05 Thread Mirosław Zalewski
On 04/10/2012 at 12:54, rost52 wrote: > I am missing (compared to MSO) a few features > in IMPRESS badly Could you tell which features do you mean, exactly? I am always interested in such comparisons. People all over the web say "LO is missing some features", but such statements tend to not be

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-04 Thread rost52
On 2012-10-03 11:41, Gordon Burgess-Parker wrote: On 02/10/12 19:38, Tim Deaton wrote: I don't think we need to remove existing features. But I DO think we need to focus on the "90% of average users". Basically, I think LO should be making sure it can do everything that MS Office 97 (15-year

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-03 Thread John Clegg
I have had a number of occasions recently to do multi-person collaboration usually live during a conference call, and I have to say that if you want to do that Google Docs is the tool of choice and MSO doesn't come up to the mark. On 3 October 2012 21:24, Jay Lozier wrote: > On 10/03/2012 02:23

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-03 Thread Jay Lozier
On 10/03/2012 02:23 PM, Doug wrote: > On 10/03/2012 01:20 PM, Jay Lozier wrote: > > /snip/ >> One commenter noted that most SOHO users do not need the >> collaboration features in MSO (or any office suite). Also, I am not >> sure that many of the collaboration features are used extensively in >> la

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-03 Thread Girvin R. Herr
Jay Lozier wrote: On 10/02/2012 07:19 PM, Girvin R. Herr wrote: Girvin, Most people I have talked to about databases find them less intuitive than other typical office and general software. Jay, Yes, I can agree to that. Working with databases is not plug-n-play. It doesn't he

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-03 Thread Steve Edmonds
On 2012-10-03 22:41, Gordon Burgess-Parker wrote: On 02/10/12 19:38, Tim Deaton wrote: I don't think we need to remove existing features. But I DO think we need to focus on the "90% of average users". Basically, I think LO should be making sure it can do everything that MS Office 97 (15-yea

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-03 Thread Mirosław Zalewski
On 03/10/2012 at 20:23, Doug wrote: > I guess I don't understand something here. Almost 20 years ago, I wrote > user manuals for equipment I designed, and had the software > engineer modify them as required for the user programming requirements. > (This was for burglar-alarm systems.) there wa

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-03 Thread Doug
On 10/03/2012 01:20 PM, Jay Lozier wrote: /snip/ One commenter noted that most SOHO users do not need the collaboration features in MSO (or any office suite). Also, I am not sure that many of the collaboration features are used extensively in large organizations.sides. I guess I don't understa

Renting MS Office (next release), was: Fw: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-03 Thread Tom Davies
m Tom :)  - Forwarded Message - >From: Chad Homan >To: Gordon Burgess-Parker >Cc: users@global.libreoffice.org >Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 16:28 >Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start >renting their office products instead &g

Formats, was: Fw: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-03 Thread Tom Davies
Hi :) Yeh, people are weird sometimes.  I'm sure some people would have peaceful pro-war protests or fight for peace given half a chance.  One client group claimed they didn't know how to use "Save As ..." so i sent them screen-shots and then the month after i even visited them to show them by

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-03 Thread Jay Lozier
On 10/03/2012 11:28 AM, Chad Homan wrote: > I should be following this tread more closely. But does anyone have links > to any M$ sites > that spell out the details of the "rentals"? Also, what happens to people > using older versions > of office (like officeXP, etc). Will they roll forward into

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-03 Thread webmaster-Kracked_P_P
On 10/03/2012 05:41 AM, Gordon Burgess-Parker wrote: On 02/10/12 19:38, Tim Deaton wrote: I don't think we need to remove existing features. But I DO think we need to focus on the "90% of average users". Basically, I think LO should be making sure it can do everything that MS Office 97 (15-y

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-03 Thread Chad Homan
I should be following this tread more closely. But does anyone have links to any M$ sites that spell out the details of the "rentals"? Also, what happens to people using older versions of office (like officeXP, etc). Will they roll forward into this pricing model? When does this take affect? J

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-03 Thread Gordon Burgess-Parker
On 02/10/12 19:38, Tim Deaton wrote: I don't think we need to remove existing features. But I DO think we need to focus on the "90% of average users". Basically, I think LO should be making sure it can do everything that MS Office 97 (15-year-old software) could do, and do it just as well and

[libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-03 Thread Andreas Säger
Am 03.10.2012 09:23, HBarr wrote: >> > Hi, I am a database user and emphasis on the word *user*. I like > learning new stuff too and Base is a challenge. I want LObase to work so > I will contribute feedback whenever I can but no more than that because > I haven't learnt to code or programme...yet.

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-03 Thread HBarr
On 03/10/2012 11:58, Jay Lozier wrote: On 10/02/2012 07:19 PM, Girvin R. Herr wrote: Jay Lozier wrote: >From the comments on the list, the weakest part of LO is Base. However, my observation is most people find learning any true database daunting and thus do not learn how to use any database.

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-02 Thread Jay Lozier
On 10/02/2012 07:19 PM, Girvin R. Herr wrote: > > > Jay Lozier wrote: > >> >From the comments on the list, the weakest part of LO is Base. However, >> my observation is most people find learning any true database daunting >> and thus do not learn how to use any database. Compounding this is the >>

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-02 Thread Girvin R. Herr
Jay Lozier wrote: >From the comments on the list, the weakest part of LO is Base. However, my observation is most people find learning any true database daunting and thus do not learn how to use any database. Compounding this is the fact many MSO packages do not include Access. Many thus use a

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-02 Thread webmaster-Kracked_P_P
The only other addition to MSO-97 would be the 2007/2010/2013 versions of their "x" formats and any other file formats that might be used now by MSO or other software. On 10/02/2012 03:55 PM, Jay Lozier wrote: On 10/02/2012 02:38 PM, Tim Deaton wrote: I don't think we need to remove existin

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-02 Thread Jay Lozier
On 10/02/2012 02:38 PM, Tim Deaton wrote: > I don't think we need to remove existing features. But I DO think we > need to focus on the "90% of average users". Basically, I think LO > should be making sure it can do everything that MS Office 97 > (15-year-old software) could do, and do it just as

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-02 Thread Tim Deaton
I don't think we need to remove existing features. But I DO think we need to focus on the "90% of average users". Basically, I think LO should be making sure it can do everything that MS Office 97 (15-year-old software) could do, and do it just as well and just as easily. If LO could do THAT

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-02 Thread Marcello Romani
while OOo will be free and available forever, in whatever current or previous version the user prefers (security patches aside). From: Marcello Romani To: users@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Tuesday, 2 October 2012, 7:32 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-us

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-02 Thread Tom Davies
It's not really sinister, they just need to make a profit)  Regards from Tom :)  > > From: Marcello Romani >To: users@global.libreoffice.org >Sent: Tuesday, 2 October 2012, 7:32 >Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-01 Thread Marcello Romani
Il 18/09/2012 21:38, Jay Lozier ha scritto: [...] > The rental model, in theory, guarantees a stabler cash flow whether the software rental is good for users is another matter. I totally agree. At $WORK we had a 3D CAD package that would not work anymore if the licence was not renewed perio

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-10-01 Thread Marcello Romani
Il 24/09/2012 17:15, Mirosław Zalewski ha scritto: On 24/09/2012 at 16:48, "webmaster-Kracked_P_P" wrote: We need to keep it with the needed options for the 90% "average" users and not for those that are in the last 10% or even those in the last 1% or less users that do so complex work that

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-09-30 Thread rost52
May I suggest to discuss the Google calender issue in a different thread? On 2012-09-30 19:17, Steve Edmonds wrote: On 2012-10-01 05:12, Gordon Burgess-Parker wrote: On 30/09/12 17:08, James Knott wrote: There's an exclamation mark in a yellow triangle on my "Google" calendar. When I move the

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-09-30 Thread Steve Edmonds
On 2012-10-01 05:12, Gordon Burgess-Parker wrote: On 30/09/12 17:08, James Knott wrote: There's an exclamation mark in a yellow triangle on my "Google" calendar. When I move the mouse pointer over the calendar, I get a pop up "The calendar Google is momentarily not available". That's exactl

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-09-30 Thread Gordon Burgess-Parker
On 30/09/12 17:08, James Knott wrote: There's an exclamation mark in a yellow triangle on my "Google" calendar. When I move the mouse pointer over the calendar, I get a pop up "The calendar Google is momentarily not available". That's exactly was happening to me with the Google Calendar add-i

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-09-30 Thread James Knott
Gordon Burgess-Parker wrote: On 30/09/12 16:55, James Knott wrote: I just tried those directions with Thunderbird & Lightning, without the provider. The calendar won't sync. Been using the CalDav method for about six months now, ever since I started getting problems with the Google Calendar

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-09-30 Thread Gordon Burgess-Parker
On 30/09/12 16:55, James Knott wrote: I just tried those directions with Thunderbird & Lightning, without the provider. The calendar won't sync. Been using the CalDav method for about six months now, ever since I started getting problems with the Google Calendar add-in. Works perfectly OK her

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-09-30 Thread James Knott
Tanstaafl wrote: On 2012-09-27 3:08 AM, Gordon Burgess-Parker wrote: On 26/09/12 12:01, webmaster-Kracked_P_P wrote: I have seen listings on Mozilla's archive system for an extension to help with the syncing to a Google account. Don't need any of those for Google Calendar - you can use Calda

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-09-29 Thread Mirosław Zalewski
On 29/09/2012 at 20:10, Wolfgang Keller wrote: > Everything that you get from LaTeX: structure markup instead of > spaghetti formatting, parameterized formatting, etc... > > Instead of clicking through dozens of dialogboxes for each and every > line of text, slide title, list item, figure, etc.

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-09-29 Thread Wolfgang Keller
> As an engineer, now retired, I used BASIC for many years, then took > a class in Pascal and wrote some code in Pascal. You are correct-- > all I wanted, in almost all cases, was command-line input and screen > or print (or both) output. I first wrote BASIC on a teletype machine > connected by a

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-09-29 Thread Wolfgang Keller
> > - actually useful formatting concepts for presentations like e.g. > > LaTeX Beamer provides. > > Could you elaborate? I don't know Beamer (I have heard the name, but > never really used it) and I am interested in knowing what it has to > offer that LO is not capable of. Everything that you ge

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-09-28 Thread Jay Lozier
On 09/28/2012 03:46 PM, Wolfgang Keller wrote: >> On 18/09/2012 at 20:13, Doug wrote: >> >>> Note, too, that the old argument, "I bought it, >>> so it's mine," will be out the window--if it's rented, it clearly >>> is not yours to copy, etc. >> As far as I remember, it was never yours. Most EULA

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-09-28 Thread Wolfgang Keller
> What language one first learns is often determined by what is used in > the "Introduction to Programming" courses and of course when you took > the course. I know a few colleges used VB for their introductory > course in the States. If I was looking for a university for studying computer science

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-09-28 Thread Wolfgang Keller
> On 18/09/2012 at 20:13, Doug wrote: > > > Note, too, that the old argument, "I bought it, > > so it's mine," will be out the window--if it's rented, it clearly > > is not yours to copy, etc. > > As far as I remember, it was never yours. Most EULAs forbid e.g. > reselling of box copy. They cl

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-09-27 Thread Jay Lozier
On 09/27/2012 09:04 AM, Pertti Rönnberg wrote: > All the best LibO folks, > This discussion about calendars etc. may be interesting perhaps also > useful -- but back to the basic question! > Microsoft is going to change their behavior. > > Let us remember that MS is the absolute market leader -- th

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-09-27 Thread rost52
he difference. Regards from Tom :) From: Pertti Rönnberg To: Tom Davies Cc: "users@global.libreoffice.org" Sent: Thursday, 27 September 2012, 18:27 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their offic

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-09-27 Thread Tom Davies
gs or even just one or two things until you get more familiar with the difference.  Regards from Tom :)  > > From: Pertti Rönnberg >To: Tom Davies >Cc: "users@global.libreoffice.org" >Sent: Thursday, 27 September 2012, 18:27 >Subject: Re: [libre

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-09-27 Thread Pertti Rönnberg
happy when their machine is heavily infected with malware that results from using MS junk. Just my opinion and doubtless many people, especially the BoD disagree. Regards from Tom :) ------------------------ *From:* Pertti Rönnberg *To:* u

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-09-27 Thread Tom Davies
fice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start >renting their office products instead > >On 26/09/12 12:01, webmaster-Kracked_P_P wrote: >> I have seen listings on Mozilla's archive system for an extension to help >> with the syncing to a Google account. >>

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-09-27 Thread Tanstaafl
On 2012-09-27 10:14 AM, Gordon Burgess-Parker wrote: If you click on the Sunbird link it also says Lightning - I'm using it here in Lightning 1.7 Ah, ok, thanks... Hmmm... we are using Thunderbird ESR here at the office, and it is stuck at Lightning 1.2.3... I wonder what version of Lightnin

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-09-27 Thread Gordon Burgess-Parker
On 27/09/12 13:16, Tanstaafl wrote: On 2012-09-27 3:08 AM, Gordon Burgess-Parker wrote: On 26/09/12 12:01, webmaster-Kracked_P_P wrote: I have seen listings on Mozilla's archive system for an extension to help with the syncing to a Google account. Don't need any of those for Google Calendar

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-09-27 Thread Tom Davies
lobal.libreoffice.org >Sent: Thursday, 27 September 2012, 14:04 >Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start >renting their office products instead > >All the best LibO folks, >This discussion about calendars etc. may be interesting perhaps al

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-09-27 Thread Pertti Rönnberg
All the best LibO folks, This discussion about calendars etc. may be interesting perhaps also useful -- but back to the basic question! Microsoft is going to change their behavior. Let us remember that MS is the absolute market leader -- they can't be totally wrong when having 95% and people a

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-09-27 Thread Tanstaafl
On 2012-09-27 3:08 AM, Gordon Burgess-Parker wrote: On 26/09/12 12:01, webmaster-Kracked_P_P wrote: I have seen listings on Mozilla's archive system for an extension to help with the syncing to a Google account. Don't need any of those for Google Calendar - you can use Caldav which doesn't re

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-09-27 Thread Gordon Burgess-Parker
On 26/09/12 12:01, webmaster-Kracked_P_P wrote: I have seen listings on Mozilla's archive system for an extension to help with the syncing to a Google account. Don't need any of those for Google Calendar - you can use Caldav which doesn't require any extension at all. http://support.google.co

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-09-27 Thread Gordon Burgess-Parker
On 24/09/12 20:03, James Knott wrote: Syncing Lightning with Google Calendar requires an add-on such as "Provider for Google Calendar". No it doesn't - and the latest version of Calendar Sync is a bit flakey. You can use Caldav instead which doesn't need an add-on. http://support.google.com/ca

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-09-26 Thread webmaster-Kracked_P_P
On 09/24/2012 03:03 PM, James Knott wrote: Tom Davies wrote: For my colleagues it would be nice to have a Calendar that is easier to find and integrate, for example. But i haven't found any sort of calendar, either on-screen or off, that works for me I use Lightning with Thunderbird and Seamo

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-09-25 Thread Jay Lozier
On 09/25/2012 11:51 AM, Wolfgang Keller wrote: >> My guess the group that complains the most about switching because of >> macros would be the second group > Objection. > > The point is that those people who actually use "office software" in > companies have absolutely no influence on what they wo

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-09-25 Thread Doug
On 09/25/2012 11:51 AM, Wolfgang Keller wrote: My guess the group that complains the most about switching because of macros would be the second group Objection. The point is that those people who actually use "office software" in companies have absolutely no influence on what they work with. It

+1 Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-09-25 Thread Tom Davies
aw Zalewski >To: users@global.libreoffice.org >Sent: Tuesday, 25 September 2012, 17:37 >Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start >renting their office products instead > >On 25/09/2012 at 17:52, Wolfgang Keller wrote: > >> - a

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-09-25 Thread Mirosław Zalewski
On 25/09/2012 at 17:52, Wolfgang Keller wrote: > - actually useful formatting concepts for presentations like e.g. LaTeX > Beamer provides. Could you elaborate? I don't know Beamer (I have heard the name, but never really used it) and I am interested in knowing what it has to offer that LO is

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-09-25 Thread Wolfgang Keller
> Most features one needs have been include in office suites since the > some time in the 90's. I can not think of a feature that I want see > implemented that is not already implemented. Objection. instead of braindeadly cloning MS "features", which are mostly based on cerebral flatulances emana

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

2012-09-25 Thread Wolfgang Keller
> My guess the group that complains the most about switching because of > macros would be the second group Objection. The point is that those people who actually use "office software" in companies have absolutely no influence on what they work with. It's the manangsters and administrictators who

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