@eskimo.com
Sent: Mon, May 27, 2013 6:21 pm
Subject: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Torbjörn Hartman describes power
measurments
Check out these 2 videos. It's a clear demonstration of how full power
can be transferred to a resistive load without registering current on
either clamp-on or in-line
If you want to sneak DC into a system, you'd never get it passed a clamp meter,
if you just use some diodes. You'll need serious decoupling. I say serious,
because the load is substantial and will quickly drain the reservoir
capacitors. Any ripple on the DC will generate a varying magnetic
or a scope and LOOK at the damn thing : D
Anyway... next piece of equipment on the shopping list (for the next test)
ought to be http://www.tortech.com.au/category/3-phase-isolation/
Plug everything into an isolation transformer. That should do it.
.s
Right, that was a know problems with simple rectification and transformers
that get magnetized.
however you can clearly see it on the waveform.
You see the asymetry of shape. impossible to miss.
second point is that mixing two voltage, it will kill or trouble other
instruments plugged (peak
by the way, not a bridge but a single wave (one diode) rectification...
usual bridge does not cause asymetry, neither double wave.
2013/5/27 David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com
Assume that you have a bridge rectifier in the blue box. This is followed
by a filtering capacitor. The DC is then
.
Dave
-Original Message-
From: Andrew andrew...@att.net
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Mon, May 27, 2013 1:57 am
Subject: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Torbjörn Hartman describes
power measurments
By direct admission of the team, posted here, it did not occur to them
hope this clears up some of the confusion that has been rampart.
Dave
-Original Message-
From: Alain Sepeda alain.sep...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Mon, May 27, 2013 8:25 am
Subject: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Torbjörn Hartman describes
power measurments
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Sun, May 26, 2013 10:01 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Torbjörn Hartman
describes power measurments
Almost. The power being fed to the heater exceeds that measured at the
wall, because the sensor used (an AC current clamp) cannot sense
http://www.circuitstoday.com/half-wave-rectifiers
*(ii)**Disadvantages:1.* The output current in the load contains,* in
addition to dc component*, *ac components of basic frequency equal to that
of the input voltage frequency*. Ripple factor is high and an elaborate
filtering is, therefore,
My source was Hanno Essen, one of the authors. He answered a question
asked by email by one Sterling D. Allan http://sterlingdallan.com/
/ of Pure Energy Systems News/, reported earlier in this list.
/4. Have you tried to test the output of the power supply to exclude
that/ /also a DC current
Yes, Robin is correct.
Duncan
On 5/26/2013 8:08 PM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote:
In reply to David Roberson's message of Sun, 26 May 2013 22:35:09 -0400 (EDT):
Hi,
This is a little different. A full bridge rectifier will allow for both halves
of the AC current to pass, and so it should be
Word up Duncan - Rossi currently resides in Florida!
You could call it The Power Sneaker.
Andrew
- Original Message -
From: Duncan Cumming
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 10:59 AM
Subject: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Torbjörn Hartman describes power measurments
: [Vo]:Torbjörn Hartman
describes power measurments
http://www.circuitstoday.com/half-wave-rectifiers
(ii)Disadvantages:1. The output current in the load contains, in addition to dc
component, ac components of basic frequency equal to that of the input voltage
frequency. Ripple factor is high
Dave, there are a couple of things wrong with your analysis. First off, the
insertion of an isolation capacitor between the main grid transformer and the
plug takes care of your short circuit problem. And then there's the
possibility of injection of RF also, also capacitatively coupled into the
Duncan Cumming wrote:
(Of course, DC rated Hall effect clamps are available but were not used in
the demo, partially because Rossi appears to believe that an AC outlet will
only deliver AC current - this is far from being the case).
1. People have been measuring DC amperage by measuring a
@eskimo.com
Sent: Sun, May 26, 2013 11:08 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Torbjörn Hartman describes
power measurments
In reply to David Roberson's message of Sun, 26 May 2013 22:35:09 -0400 (EDT):
Hi,
This is a little different. A full bridge rectifier will allow for both
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Mon, May 27, 2013 2:31 pm
Subject: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Torbjörn Hartman describes power measurments
Dave, there are a couple of things wrong with your analysis. First off, the
insertion of an isolation capacitor between the main grid transformer and the
plug
On Mon, May 27, 2013 at 10:59 AM, Duncan Cumming spacedr...@cumming.infowrote:
I don't think Rossi would travel to the USA to see such a demo.
How about a YouTube video?
Eric
: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Torbjörn Hartman describes power
measurments
What I am proposing is a lot simpler than that. No bridge rectifier, no
capacitor, just a simple diode. I am saying that given a diode in series
with a resistor, it is not possible to measure
On Mon, May 27, 2013 at 11:31 AM, Andrew andrew...@att.net wrote:
**
Dave, there are a couple of things wrong with your analysis. First off,
the insertion of an isolation capacitor between the main grid transformer
and the plug takes care of your short circuit problem. And then there's
the
for the long periods associated with the PWM.
Dave
-Original Message-
From: Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Mon, May 27, 2013 3:09 pm
Subject: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Torbjörn Hartman describes power
measurments
On Mon, May 27, 2013 at 11:31
, May 27, 2013 11:50 AM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Torbjörn Hartman describes power
measurments
Forget the RF for now. That is another annoyance.
Please explain how much DC power will be propagated through that isolation
capacitor. Putting these in place will ensure that no DC
No separate DC power source is necessary if Duncan's diode fudge is used.
Andrew
- Original Message -
From: Eric Walker
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 12:09 PM
Subject: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Torbjörn Hartman describes power
measurments
Wouldn't harmonics show on the power analyzer?
On Mon, May 27, 2013 at 2:30 PM, Duncan Cumming spacedr...@cumming.info wrote:
With chopped DC, a clamp on ammeter will show the AC component. So if you
had 0 to 1 amp chopped, the ammeter would show 0.5 amps peak AC. So you get
a partial reading,
On Mon, May 27, 2013 at 12:33 PM, Andrew andrew...@att.net wrote:
**
No separate DC power source is necessary if Duncan's diode fudge is used.
Yes, but the point is that you'd need to intentionally tamper with the
mains to pull it off, i.e., it implies fraud, if I'm understanding the
diode
: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Torbjörn Hartman describes power
measurments
You mean an annoyance like the advance of the perihelion of Mercury? :)
OK, once again you furiously misunderstand. The isolation capacitor is in
series between the grid transformer and the wall plug. Behind the wall plug
: Berke Durak berke.du...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Mon, May 27, 2013 3:34 pm
Subject: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Torbjörn Hartman describes
Wouldn't harmonics show on the power analyzer?
On Mon, May 27, 2013 at 2:30 PM, Duncan Cumming spacedr...@cumming.info wrote:
With chopped
pm
Subject: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Torbjörn Hartman
describes power measurments
On Mon, May 27, 2013 at 12:33 PM, Andrew andrew...@att.net wrote:
No separate DC power source is necessary if Duncan's diode fudge is used.
Yes, but the point is that you'd need
Yes, Hall effect clamps are readily available, I am not disputing that.
They used to suffer from drift problems, but these problems have pretty
much been solved. The one that you show has a 3% accuracy and 8 digits
of drift - not bad.
The only info I have about Rossi came from a single post
Hi,
On 27-5-2013 20:44, Andrew wrote:
The measurement task has been made unnecessarily difficult by
specifying 3-phase input to the control box. Normal single-phase
input would suffice here, given the power levels.
Not necessarily, if all three phases have a balanced load, then the
current
, what say you?
Dave
-Original Message-
From: mixent mix...@bigpond.com mix...@bigpond.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Sun, May 26, 2013 11:08 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Torbjörn Hartman describes
power measurments
In reply to David
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Sun, May 26, 2013 11:08 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Torbjörn Hartman describes
power measurments
In reply to David Roberson's message of Sun, 26 May 2013 22:35:09 -0400 (EDT):
Hi,
This is a little different. A full bridge
power measurement. That is basic electronics.
Dave
-Original Message-
From: Joshua Cude joshua.c...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Mon, May 27, 2013 6:21 pm
Subject: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Torbjörn Hartman describes power measurments
Check out these 2 videos. It's a clear
]:Re: [Vo]:Torbjörn Hartman describes power measurments
Power from an AC source can only be extracted by the fundamental component of
that source, period.
An uneducated and completely incorrect statement like that disqualifies you, in
my view, from making any further comments about the EE
Arrgh! This thread seems to have the Vo: Re Vo: problem, induced by the
server.
It seems that any character outside of the normal ascii set 0 - 9 a - Z
triggers this.
(This is a test message to see if the problem happens, responding to David
Roberson.)
- Jed
Indeed it has Dave. That's heartening.
Andrew
- Original Message -
From: David Roberson
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2013 2:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Torbjörn Hartman describes power measurments
I assume that your opinion of the test guys has
On Sun, May 26, 2013 at 5:18 PM, Duncan Cumming spacedr...@cumming.infowrote:
I am not trying to assert anything as fact. I am merely pointing out that
a simple diode inside the controller box (to which access was forbidden by
Rossi) COULD HAVE given the observed results. I am NOT saying that
It has already been proven that bullfrogs can fly, most likely caused from
strings of vacuum energy.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raining_animals
On Sunday, May 26, 2013, David Roberson wrote:
How do we know that your diode trick will actually do what you think? You
need to prove that this
stories can be concocted just as with the CAT
scam.
Dave
-Original Message-
From: ChemE Stewart cheme...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Sun, May 26, 2013 8:39 pm
Subject: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Torbjörn Hartman describes power measurments
It has already been proven
I wrote:
On Sun, May 26, 2013 at 5:18 PM, Duncan Cumming spacedr...@cumming.infowrote:
I am not trying to assert anything as fact. I am merely pointing out
that a simple diode inside the controller box (to which access was
forbidden by Rossi) COULD HAVE given the observed results. I am NOT
for Rossi to fake this are
diminishing with each interview of the team…
-Mark
From: Andrew [mailto:andrew...@att.net]
Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2013 2:50 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Torbjörn Hartman describes power measurments
Indeed it has Dave. That's
Stewart cheme...@gmail.com javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
'cheme...@gmail.com');
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
'vortex-l@eskimo.com');
Sent: Sun, May 26, 2013 8:39 pm
Subject: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Torbjörn Hartman describes power
measurments
It has already been
No, it does not. What happens is that the diode rectifies the mains to
DC, and the DC is not sensed by the clamp-type current meter.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Current_clamp
No tampering with the mains itself would be necessary if one were to use
a diode.
Duncan
On 5/26/2013 5:34 PM, Eric
Almost. The power being fed to the heater exceeds that measured at the
wall, because the sensor used (an AC current clamp) cannot sense the
direct current being drawn from the wall socket.
Some people find the difference between current and voltage confusing.
What I am saying here is that if
-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Sun, May 26, 2013 10:01 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Torbjörn Hartman describes power
measurments
Almost. The power being fed to the heater exceeds that measured at the
wall, because the sensor used (an AC current clamp
From: Duncan Cumming
So is it your position that a current clamp without a Hall effect unit can
measure DC? Mine is that it cannot.
Did you actually check the PCE site?
It looks to me like all the current clamps on the PCE power analyzer site
measure both AC and DC
In reply to David Roberson's message of Sun, 26 May 2013 22:35:09 -0400 (EDT):
Hi,
This is a little different. A full bridge rectifier will allow for both halves
of the AC current to pass, and so it should be measured as little different to a
purely resistive load. However a single diode will
Duncan Cumming
No, it does not. What happens is that the diode rectifies the mains to
DC, and the DC is not sensed by the clamp-type current meter.
What would the clamp on meter show with chopped DC?
]:Re: [Vo]:Torbjörn Hartman describes power
measurments
In reply to David Roberson's message of Sun, 26 May 2013 22:35:09 -0400 (EDT):
Hi,
This is a little different. A full bridge rectifier will allow for both halves
of the AC current to pass, and so it should be measured as little different
That is a different instrument. The one used in the tests (PCE-830
http://www.industrial-needs.com/technical-data/power-anlayser-PCE-830.htm)
does not measure DC.
On 5/26/2013 7:53 PM, Jones Beene wrote:
Did you actually check the PCE site?
It looks to me like all the current clamps on the
By direct admission of the team, posted here, it did not occur to them to check
for a DC level change.
- Original Message -
From: David Roberson
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2013 8:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Torbjörn Hartman describes
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