Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize

2007-02-18 Thread Robin van Spaandonk
>- Original Message - >From: "Robin van Spaandonk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: >Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 4:10 PM >Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize > > >> In reply to Nick Palmer's message

Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize

2007-02-18 Thread Frederick Sparber
--- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 2/18/2007 12:44:39 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize http://www.css.cornell.edu/faculty/lehmann/biochar/Biochar_projects.htm " Currently (January 2007) we conduct experiments to evaluate the effects of bio-ch

Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize

2007-02-17 Thread Frederick Sparber
th land application of bio-char which is a residue from the energy production that has multiple environmental benefits. - Original Message - From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 2/17/2007 4:45:20 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize Lehmann (Cornell Uni

Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize

2007-02-17 Thread Frederick Sparber
Lehmann (Cornell University) also claims Bio-Char or Agri-Char in the soil also sequesters atmospheric CO2. Over the years I have noticed that flood irrigation of farmland produces higher crop yields than non-aerated well water, implying that soil CO2 made available to the plant root system aids

Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize

2007-02-16 Thread Steven Krivit
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain Mr. Branson. http://www.newenergytimes.com/SR/CashIn/CashonClimateChange.html

Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize

2007-02-16 Thread Mike Carrell
Jed wrote, I am certain that returning Canada, the U.S. and other temperate areas to their original forestation would sequester gigantic amounts of CO2 and help reverse global warming. Originally, I believe, the US area was one deciduous forest all the way to the Missouri river and perhaps b

Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize

2007-02-16 Thread Jed Rothwell
John Berry wrote: Two things, for one there are many uses for wood, as long as it's not burnt why not make use of what you can rather than just burying. Of course. I meant we should bury the wood after we make use of it. For example, with paper pulp that can not longer be recycled, or with w

Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize

2007-02-16 Thread John Berry
Two things, for one there are many uses for wood, as long as it's not burnt why not make use of what you can rather than just burying. And secondly the rate of pine growth varies greatly, see: http://www.forestenterprises.co.nz/new/afi/nzplantation.htm So location is key, as is choosing a very f

Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize

2007-02-16 Thread Michel Jullian
10:50 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize > Jed wrote:- > > < cut down all the trees in Canada to help prevent global warming?>> > > No-one is asserting this as far as I know. That would be bonkers. The Wiki > article was talking about aff

Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize

2007-02-16 Thread Nick Palmer
Jed wrote:- <> No-one is asserting this as far as I know. That would be bonkers. The Wiki article was talking about afforestation (planting forest on land that has never been a forest) or reforestation in far Northerly or Southerly latitudes where there is significant long lasting snow and ic

Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize

2007-02-16 Thread Jed Rothwell
Michel Jullian wrote: What's a few hundred years between friends? ;-) How long would it take by harvesting algae on a large scale then? I do not know. However: We have no simple method of harvesting ocean algae, whereas people have been harvesting trees for thousands of years. (It would be

Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize

2007-02-16 Thread Jed Rothwell
I wrote: Planting more forest in, say, Canada, can actually be a source of global warming - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_offset and scroll down to "Climate impacts" That assertion is a lot of crap. To put it another way, does anyone seriously assert that we should cut down all t

Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize

2007-02-16 Thread Jed Rothwell
Nick Palmer wrote: Planting more forest in, say, Canada, can actually be a source of global warming - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_offset and scroll down to "Climate impacts" That assertion is a lot of crap. The whole article seems to be suffused with anti-environmentalist nonsense

Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize

2007-02-16 Thread Nick Palmer
Jed, I meant $1 billion dollars for the prize! Also the challenge is to come up with a way of REMOVING millions of tonnes of CO2 from the atmosphere, not just ways to put less of it in... JR <> This is true in the tropics but the further North or South one goes, the less global cooling results be

Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize

2007-02-16 Thread Michel Jullian
What's a few hundred years between friends? ;-) How long would it take by harvesting algae on a large scale then? Michel - Original Message - From: "Jed Rothwell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 6:27 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Mi

Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize

2007-02-16 Thread Jed Rothwell
Michel Jullian wrote: > If you reduce > emissions enough, nature will pump the extra CO2 > out of the atmosphere soon enough. They are talking about 1000 years at least for natural elimination :/ More like 300 to 600 years by my calculations. See chapters 8 and 9 in my book: Suppose the goal

Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize

2007-02-16 Thread Michel Jullian
- Original Message - From: "Jed Rothwell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 5:38 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize ... > If you reduce > emissions enough, nature will pump the extra CO2 > out of the atmosphe

Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize

2007-02-16 Thread Jed Rothwell
Michel Jullian wrote: I say kudos too. But plug-in hybrids or CF wouldn't qualify I am afraid. Unless I misunderstood the rules, what Branson is after is a technology to pump the CO2 out of the atmosphere, not to reduce emissions. Huh. I am not surprised, but that's silly. The two are funct

Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize

2007-02-16 Thread Michel Jullian
AIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 3:54 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize > Nick Palmer wrote: > >>Robin from Oz wrote:- >><>cheap advertising.>> >> >>Right, of course. A true solution would still be good va

Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize

2007-02-16 Thread Jed Rothwell
Nick Palmer wrote: Robin from Oz wrote:- <> Right, of course. A true solution would still be good value at $1 billion dollars or maybe even $1 trillion It would take billions or perhaps trillions of dollars to implement a solution, but $25 million might be a great help to someone trying t

Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize

2007-02-15 Thread Nick Palmer
Robin from Oz wrote:- > Right, of course. A true solution would still be good value at $1 billion dollars or maybe even $1 trillion

Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize

2007-02-15 Thread Mike Carrell
is in the right direction. Or would you prefer a government grant? Mike Carrell - - Original Message - From: "Robin van Spaandonk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 4:10 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Mill

Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize

2007-02-15 Thread Robin van Spaandonk
In reply to Nick Palmer's message of Thu, 15 Feb 2007 13:14:48 -: Hi, [snip] I wouldn't get too hung up on this prize. It looks more like Branson buying cheap advertising. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition (capitalism) provides the motivation, C

Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize

2007-02-15 Thread Michel Jullian
ROTECTED]> Cc: "Vortex-L" Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 2:14 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize Other minds are on this. Look at the first comment (from mbmurphy) below this article on Branson's prize. http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/duncan/17524/

Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize

2007-02-15 Thread Nick Palmer
Other minds are on this. Look at the first comment (from mbmurphy) below this article on Branson's prize. http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/duncan/17524/

Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize

2007-02-15 Thread Frederick Sparber
- Original Message - From: Nick Palmer To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Vortex-L Sent: 2/15/2007 5:35:00 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize I'm not so sure that "in situ" slash and char of scrub on a large scale would be totally beneficial environ

Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize

2007-02-15 Thread Nick Palmer
Algal "blooms" happen naturally in rivers and at sea http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algal_bloom often near estuarine areas which discharge agricultural nitrogenous leachate and nitrate and phosphate rich substances from such products as detergents and clothes washing powder. Biochemical oxygen d

Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize

2007-02-15 Thread Frederick Sparber
"promised land for ozzies" in the Mojave Desert. :-) Fred - Original Message - From: John Berry To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: 2/15/2007 5:31:54 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize Ok, so what do you think the cost per tonne of carbon dioxide rem

Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize

2007-02-15 Thread Nick Palmer
Michel wrote:- > Excellent idea - carbon neutral (ish) fuel plus regenerated higher fertility, lower input agriculture plus sequestered stable carbon. Looks like a win-win-win situation. Anybody see any flies in the ointment? Does anyone know

Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize

2007-02-15 Thread Nick Palmer
I'm not so sure that "in situ" slash and char of scrub on a large scale would be totally beneficial environmentally! - did you ever see a charcoal burner's mound smoking? That's why the "in vessel" pyrolysers, which have acid gas scrubbing and NOx removal, are favourite. Algae seemed better beca

Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize

2007-02-15 Thread John Berry
Original Message - > From: "Frederick Sparber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "vortex-l" > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 10:46 AM > Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize > > > >I see your point Nick, harvesting algae us

Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize

2007-02-15 Thread Frederick Sparber
t; From: "Frederick Sparber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "vortex-l" > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 10:46 AM > Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize > > > >I see your point Nick, harvesting algae using a floating horizontal fi

Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize

2007-02-15 Thread Michel Jullian
ichel - Original Message - From: "Frederick Sparber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "vortex-l" Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 10:46 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize >I see your point Nick, harvesting algae using a floating horizont

Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize

2007-02-15 Thread Frederick Sparber
I see your point Nick, harvesting algae using a floating horizontal fine-mesh seine as an algae pond to sequester atmospheric CO2 followed by charring the algae is a seine idea. Since Michel is closer to the Seine and you are closer to Branson. :-) The millions of acres in the US that are in

Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize

2007-02-14 Thread Robin van Spaandonk
In reply to John Berry's message of Thu, 15 Feb 2007 12:37:05 +1300: Hi, [snip] >see: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/04/020412080812.htm > >Cost of the entire process is equivalent to about 20 cents per gallon of >gasoline. [snip] I note that they don't mention where the energy is comin

Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize

2007-02-14 Thread Nick Palmer
Here's three more websites (particularly the first one) that extol the apparently huge benefits of bio-char charcoal in soils. If the char was created from pyrolysed algae that was fattened on fossil fuel sourced CO2, we could be on our way to a share of $25 million! Can anyone do some numbers

Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize

2007-02-14 Thread Robin van Spaandonk
In reply to Terry Blanton's message of Wed, 14 Feb 2007 18:04:27 -0500: Hi, [snip] >On 2/14/07, Robin van Spaandonk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> There are really only a few forms in which carbon can be sequestered. As >> organic >> compounds, or as pure carbon, or as carbonates. > >I, and the

Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize

2007-02-14 Thread Nick Palmer
Ok, Fred and Michel, I was reading this about waste disposal technology today on the M.I.T.Technology review website http://www.technologyreview.com/Energy/18183/ and I linked up what the Vorts have been talking about with algae as a means of creation of biofuel etc and the waste disposal techn

Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize

2007-02-14 Thread John Berry
On 2/14/07, Frederick Sparber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Undoing it in less than 300 years is going to be costly. Fred I disagree. see: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/04/020412080812.htm Cost of the entire process is equivalent to about 20 cents per gallon of gasoline. So for 4

Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize

2007-02-14 Thread Terry Blanton
On 2/14/07, Robin van Spaandonk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: There are really only a few forms in which carbon can be sequestered. As organic compounds, or as pure carbon, or as carbonates. I, and the women I know, would like to see C sequestered as diamonds. However, deBeers disagrees. Terry

Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize

2007-02-14 Thread Robin van Spaandonk
In reply to Robin van Spaandonk's message of Thu, 15 Feb 2007 09:31:29 +1100: Hi, [snip] >of silicon, from silicates, not from SiO2 (the anions in the silicates are Oops, that should be cations. >needed to combine with the CO2 to form carbonates). Solar cells as a use for >the >Silicon perhaps?

Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize

2007-02-14 Thread Robin van Spaandonk
In reply to Michel Jullian's message of Wed, 14 Feb 2007 14:03:05 +0100: Hi, [snip] >Sure Fred I am not ignoring this wonderful emission lowering scheme, but we >also need a solution to recapture what's already been dumped into the >atmosphere, that's the challenge. However I have no doubt some

Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize

2007-02-14 Thread Jed Rothwell
Terry Blanton wrote: Fortunately, I no longer own said aglae hole. I have moved up in the world to the land of $10k prostitutes: And those are $10k middle aged prostitutes, no less. - Jed

Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize

2007-02-14 Thread Michel Jullian
issolution. Spraying the phytoplancton laden seawater could achieve the same result maybe? Michel - Original Message - From: "Frederick Sparber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 1:39 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Priz

Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize

2007-02-14 Thread Frederick Sparber
fit, he says." Fred > - Original Message - > From: "Frederick Sparber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 12:32 PM > Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize > > > > Michel Jullian wrote: > >

Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize

2007-02-14 Thread Terry Blanton
On 2/14/07, Frederick Sparber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Thomas Malloy suggested "algae ponds in the southwest desert". I suggest floating filters-sieves as algae ponds on streams, rivers, and lakes, and Blanton's swimming pool, Fortunately, I no longer own said aglae hole. I have moved up i

Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize

2007-02-14 Thread Michel Jullian
G than CO2! Michel - Original Message - From: "Frederick Sparber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 12:32 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize > Michel Jullian wrote: >> >> >> Floating microalgae po

Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize

2007-02-14 Thread Frederick Sparber
e time? :) > > Michel > > > - Original Message - > From: "Frederick Sparber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "vortex-l" > Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 10:41 AM > Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize > > >

Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize

2007-02-14 Thread Michel Jullian
riginal Message - From: "Frederick Sparber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "vortex-l" Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 10:41 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize > Thomas Malloy suggested "algae ponds in the southwest desert". > >

Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize

2007-02-14 Thread Frederick Sparber
at pollute waterways. Pennsylvania has over two billion tons of waste coal, and more than 180,000 acres of abandoned mine lands left over by the unregulated mining practices of the past. " - Original Message - From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 2/14/2007 2:42:23 AM Subjec

Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize

2007-02-14 Thread Frederick Sparber
Thomas Malloy suggested "algae ponds in the southwest desert". I suggest floating filters-sieves as algae ponds on streams, rivers, and lakes, and Blanton's swimming pool, where the water passes through and the algae are contained in them for harvesting for dumping into abandoned coal mines for

Re: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize

2007-02-13 Thread Harry Veeder
Frederick Sparber wrote: > An interesting article, Jones. > > But, for the life of me I can't see why spending money to get the > coal-burning power plants > cleaned up is so hard for the greedy-profit-oriented energy czars to > swallow. what do you expect after 30 years of: "Free enterprise ca

RE: [Vo]: Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize

2007-02-13 Thread Frederick Sparber
An interesting article, Jones. But, for the life of me I can't see why spending money to get the coal-burning power plants cleaned up is so hard for the greedy-profit-oriented energy czars to swallow. The EPA edict on automotive emissions-mileage, antifreeze, and crankcase and lube oil processing

RE: [VO]:Re: The $25 Million Branson Climate Prize

2007-02-13 Thread Frederick Sparber
Time to quit pissing and moaning and switching to doing, Richard. My first iteration based on water-CO2 sent to a local university prof: "Based on the CO2 absorption,-thermal-de-sorption properties of rainwater, streams, rivers, lakes, and seas that nature uses for moving CO2 about, I think gra