On Jun 17, 2006, at 8:56 PM, Eric Newcomer wrote: > > Actually this is the main reason I don't tend to participate very > much on this list anymore. It has turned out to be one of those > places where you can't escape the fruitless, endless arguments over > whose perspective or opinion is correct. >
Well, ok. I am willing to admit my part of it. Sorry. Despite not being able right now to roll a new thread, I suggest focussing on the service oriented approach towards heterogeneous IT systems regarding a) design of service granularity and b) management (or governance if you want) of a running service oriented system (along IT service management lines). These apply equally to the use of WS-*, Jini, and REST. Jan > > Eric > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Ron Schmelzer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 7:07:02 PM > Subject: Re: [service-orientated-architecture] Re: R&J on SOA & the > Zachman Framework > > Heh, only on *THIS* list could a ZapFlash talking about the > abstract nature of architecture and the application of enterprise > architecture somehow get turned into a discussion of REST and > protocols. > > Anyone care to comment on the basic premise of the ZapFlash? Namely > that you can apply the Zachman Framework to SOA and vice-versa? > > If we ever plan to sell SOA to the business, we have to step it up > a notch. Not to detract from the REST discussion here, but folks, > we've already been through that numerous times. > > Ron > > Michael Champion wrote: >> I'm talking about PURISTS who believe that SQLis not compliant >> with the relational model (c.f. C.J. Date and the crew at >> dbdebunk.com). Likewise I'm talking about people who argue that >> HTTP should be used to "transfer" resource representations rather >> than "transport" objects and methods. >> >> Obviously SQL and HTTP are successful and will live for decades at >> least. What is less clear is whether the advice of those who >> derive recommendations from the abstract principles of the >> underlying theories (as opposed to emipircally demonstrated >> successes) is to be taken particularly seriously. >> >> To put it another way: Most code is not particularly compliant >> with the principles of OO design; most databases are not highly >> normalized in acoordance with relational theory, and most >> successful websites use HTTP in a non-RESTful way. Is this a >> problem, i.e. could they do better if they played by "the rules", >> or do the rules only apply in an idealized world? Don't we need >> an answer to this kind of question before worrying about whether >> Zachman has a nice checklist of things to think about or a >> rigorous conceptual framework that one should adhere to? >> >> p.s. There's still time to submit your thoughts / experiences on >> the subject of how all this XML / web services / REST stuff really >> works in the enterprise-y world for the XML 2006 conference - >> http://www.idealliance.org/xmlusa/06/call/ >> >> >> On 6/16/06, patrickdlogan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> > ...he reminded me of a RESTifarian (or a relational model purist >> for >> >> >> >> >> Not much evidence that the relational model and the HTTP protocol >> will >> be long lived? >> >> Could you please define "long" and provide examples of "the >> alternatives that don't struggle too hard"? >> >> I have a feeling we may in fact live on different planets. >> >> -Patrick >> >> >> >> >> __________ NOD32 1.1606 (20060617) Information __________ >> >> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> __________ NOD32 1.1606 (20060617) Information __________ >> >> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. >> http://www.eset.com > > -- _____________________________________________________________ > Ronald Schmelzer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Analyst ZapThink > LLC Direct: 781-577-2779 / Main: 781-207-0203 > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Something is new at Yahoo! Groups. Check out the enhanced email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/SISQkA/gOaOAA/yQLSAA/NhFolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/service-orientated-architecture/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
