Isn't it just like room design method and number of heads in a corridor?  I'd 
argue on the rack question the code is silent because they didn't consider the 
situation not because they evaluated tests and deemed no difference.  Had there 
been no difference don't you think the committee would have said that wet and 
dry are the same in that respect?  Even at least an annex item?  So the fact 
the standard doesn't tell us doesn't mean we shouldn't do it in these cases?  
Or at least make an engineering judgment? I can see in offices and corridors 
not worrying about what is probably a really short delay.  In HPS or room 
design in high challenge fire I'm a little more worried.  

Chris Cahill, PE*
Senior Fire Protection Engineer, Aviation & Facilities Group
Burns & McDonnell
8201 Norman Center Drive
Bloomington, MN 55437
Phone:  952.656.3652
Fax:  952.229.2923
[email protected]
www.burnsmcd.com

Proud to be one of FORTUNE's 100 Best Companies to Work For
*Registered in: MN




-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] 
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Steve Leyton
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 1:23 PM
To: [email protected]; [email protected]
Subject: RE: dry-pipe with in-rack/ceiling protection of Class IV to > 25 ft in 
open racks

Interesting questions yes, but the standard talks only about the # of levels of 
protection, not the gross area of the design overhead.   

Steve Leyton




-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] 
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of ParsleyConsulting
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 11:19 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: dry-pipe with in-rack/ceiling protection of Class IV to > 25 ft in 
open racks

Scott,
     I think Scot Deal raised an interesting question.  He's correct in the 
increase in area of 30%, per 12.5.1, but the question remains, if we have 
in-rack sprinklers, do we increase the number of them flowing in a dry system 
calculation?  If so, why?  If not, why not?  The table Scot referenced doesn't 
allow the use of CMDA sprinklers without in-racks as well, so what do we do 
about the number flowing in the calc?

     Anyone have input on the answer?

PARSLEY CONSULTING

Ken Wagoner, SET

760.745.6181 voice

760.745.0537 fax

[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>e-mail

www.ParsleyConsulting.com <http://www.ParsleyConsulting.com>website



On 5/31/2012 10:13 AM, Scott A Futrell wrote:
> Scot,
>
> I don't see anything that sends you back to 11.2.3.2.5 to increase the 
> in-rack design requirement by 30%.  11.2.3.2.5 is an area of sprinkler 
> operation increase, not a number of design sprinklers increase.   
> Intuitively, yes.  Prescriptive, no.
>
> Scott Futrell
>   
> (763) 425-1001 x 12 Office
> (612) 759-5556 Cell
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] 
> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of å... ....
> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 11:50 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: dry-pipe with in-rack/ceiling protection of Class IV to>  25 
> ft in open racks
>
> 2010 NFPA 13
>
> When one uses dry-pipe with combination in-rack/ceiling sprinklers to protect 
> Class IV to greater than 25 ft per Table 16.3.1.1, the 30% increase applies 
> to both in-rack and overhead sprinklers, yes?
>
> scot deal
> excelsior fire
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