But Aristotle was usually wrong. What I've found is that when I think logically about how things ought to work from my observation physics usually has a surprise of some sort in store for me. And I think I'd want to block that spray pattern if the goal is to cool the column. I want most of the water on the column, not somewhere behind it. But there I go with logic again. Damned good thing neither I nor Aristotle write code books.
On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 2:54 PM, Kenneth Berman <[email protected]> wrote: > After careful review of the cited sections, all three instruct me to direct > to the side of column. this can only be interpreted as horizontal, for a > horizontal sidewall, or vertically toward the column, for a vertical > sidewall. If protection of the piping and head is required (from forklift > operators).then other measures should be taken. Perhaps a "head guard", > they stop anything. With respect to Aristotle, logically the upward > horizontal sidewall works best. I hate to obstruct the sidewall within a > few inches. If memory serves, the only exception to installing other than > listing is pendants in the upright position, under a wharf or dock. > > On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 4:29 PM, Parsley Consulting < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > Ken, > > > > based on what I read in the sections I noted earlier I understand the > > intent of NFPA 13 is to have the spray from the sidewall sprinkler, > > horizontal or vertical, directed to one side of the column. If the spray > > is directed up, how does that conform to what NFPA requires? Are you > > suggesting the wording in NFPA 13 is incorrect, or that it's just being > > incorrectly applied if the spray is directed horizontally, rather than > > vertically? > > > > *Ken Wagoner, SET > > *Parsley Consulting*** > > *350 West 9th Avenue, Suite 206 > > *Escondido, California 92025 > > *****Phone 760-745-6181* > > Visit our website <http://www.parsleyconsulting.com/> *** > > On 07/06/2015 2:09 PM, Kenneth Berman wrote: > > > >> What cools a fifty foot column above fifteen feet? Codes don't say > install > >> horizontal, vertical, up, down. In Tennessee gravity pulls the water > down. > >> I'm cooling twenty nine feet of column to prevent collapse. > >> > >> On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 3:55 PM, John Denhardt < > >> [email protected]> > >> wrote: > >> > >> Agree - I never seen one pointed up. > >>> > >>> John > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto: > >>> [email protected]] On Behalf Of Travis > >>> Mack, > >>> SET > >>> Sent: Monday, July 06, 2015 5:00 PM > >>> To: [email protected] > >>> Subject: Re: Column Protection > >>> > >>> Where does it say the sidewall is pointed up? I have only seen these > >>> installed in the horizontal position for this application. > >>> > >>> Any steel columns shall be protected by 1-hour fireproofing or a > >>> sidewall sprinkler directed to one side of the column at the top or at > >>> the 15 ft (4.6 m) level, whichever is lower. Flow from these sprinklers > >>> shall be permitted to be omitted from the sprinkler system demand for > >>> hydraulic calculations. > >>> > >>> > >>> Travis Mack, SET > >>> MFP Design, LLC > >>> 2508 E Lodgepole Drive > >>> Gilbert, AZ 85298 > >>> 480-505-9271 > >>> fax: 866-430-6107 > >>> email:[email protected] > >>> > >>> http://www.mfpdesign.com > >>> https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692 > >>> Send large files to us via: https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign > >>> > >>> On 7/6/2015 1:57 PM, Kenneth Berman wrote: > >>> > >>>> You're all missing an important point, the horizontal sidewall is > >>>> pointed > >>>> upwards. A vertical sidewall, upwards, is incorrect. The horizontal > >>>> sidewall cools the column from fifteen feet upwards, and the water > >>>> > >>> returned > >>> > >>>> by gravity cools the column below fifteen feet. > >>>> > >>>> On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 2:50 PM, Parsley Consulting < > >>>> [email protected]> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Rocci, > >>>>> I'd echo Travis and Mark's comments. When all else fails, point > >>>>> to > >>>>> 12.12.2.2.4.1, 16.1.4.1, 17.1.4.1, or 18.2.1 (whichever is > appropriate) > >>>>> > >>>> and > >>> > >>>> ask him, politely of course, how he's reaching the conclusion that the > >>>>> sidewall sprinkler must be vertical. > >>>>> In short, ask him to "prove it." > >>>>> *Ken Wagoner, SET > >>>>> *Parsley Consulting*** > >>>>> *350 West 9th Avenue, Suite 206 > >>>>> *Escondido, California 92025 > >>>>> *****Phone 760-745-6181* > >>>>> Visit our website <http://www.parsleyconsulting.com/> *** > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On 07/06/2015 11:20 AM, Rocci Cetani 3 wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> I have a FM questioning the use of horizontal sidewall sprinklers > (he > >>>>>> thinks > >>>>>> it should be a vertical sidewall) with no heat collectors @ 15' > >>>>>> > >>>>> AFF...NFPA > >>> > >>>> 13 2013 17.1.4.1 only states a sidewall sprinkler pointed in the > >>>>>> direction of the column @ 15' AFF. Any suggestions? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Rocci Cetani III, CET > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Lead Designer > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Water-Based Fire Protections Systems Layout, Nicet Level III > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Northern California Fire Protection Services Inc. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> 16840 Joleen Way Bldg. A > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Morgan Hill, CA 93037 > >>>>>> > >>>>>> P-(408) 776-1580 EXT.111 > >>>>>> > >>>>>> F-(408) 776-1590 > >>>>>> > >>>>>> C- (408) 595-3906 > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> [email protected] > >>>>>> > >>>>>> www.norcalfire.com <http://www.norcalfire.com/> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message and any document accompanying > it > >>>>>> > >>>>> may > >>> > >>>> contain confidential information > >>>>>> > >>>>>> belonging to the sender. The information is intended only for the > use > >>>>>> > >>>>> of > >>> > >>>> individual or entity named above. 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